TGAF: Pegula family revelations; Lindy Ruff; Bills draft analysis

[Music] ctbk gives Executives and owners of mid-market  businesses unparalleled confidence and Clarity   so you can focus on strategic objectives and  organizational success their multi-disciplinary   advisers accountants and team members have  a wealth of experience and are all available   and responsive to each client to ensure the  most effective advice actions and outcomes no   matter the situation or complexity level that  experience base and one team approach combined   with integrated and efficient way of operating  enable them to be truly proactive Partners doing   the best thing for their client every time visit  ctbk tocom or call 716 630 2400 to learn how ctbk   can work for you thank you Heather perusek and  welcome to the Tim Graham and Friends team this is   another edition of Tim Graham and friends brought  to you by ctbk CPAs and Business Consultants I'm   Tim Graham of the athletic here with my co-host  Jonah bronstein of bronstein sports plus uh Jonah   it's been a pretty eventful period with both the  bills and the sabes since we've done our last   podcast we've both been been busy busy little boys  uh covering this that and everything we'll talk   about the bandits uh even a little bit later in  the show but uh one of the reasons we weren't able   to do a podcast I was bogged down with a couple  of stories regarding the Buffalo Bills and the   pugula family in regard to their ownership um of  the team uh finally able to report after working   on the story for a while that uh Kim Pula has  been ruled legally incapacitated and Terry Pula   is her plenary guardian and what plenary Guardian  means it means it's anything that can be delegable   in terms of someone's uh decision-making uh has  now been turned over to Terry pugula not to get   bogged down in legal ease but when I say something  that is delegable for instance your right to vote   cannot be delegated to somebody else so there are  certain things that Terry pugula can't do in Kim   pula's name uh but very specific and very limited  uh pretty much he's able to make every decision   uh for Kim Pula and all of her assets uh and of  course as we know uh a big chunk of her assets   uh are tied up in sports teams the Buffalo Bills  the Buffalo Sabers uh Terry Pula now with 100% uh   control of those teams or I should say given that  development from March of 2023 and then there's   a domino effect and yet another story um emerges  from that uh regarding the NFL and its secession   planning and the policies that they have in place  and the requirement for Terry pugula to then name   uh or to designate the next controlling owner of  the team in the event he dies or is incapacitated   and I think a lot of people even within the  organizations uh um Rank and file employees uh   whom I've heard from very surprised or those who  are may maybe surprised to a certain small number   of employees because there were still holding  out hope that Kim might come back someday and   information has been sparse coming from the Pula  family and trickling down through the executives   and the leadership and to the rank and file uh  people are still wondering how Kim's doing well   this is a story that I think has been jarring to  Folks at both wind Bill's drive and down at Key   Bank Center uh that Kim pagul is not coming back  and uh Laura pugula is on the rise within both   organizations the story that I wrote yesterday  regarding that secession plan with her and the   bills in the event uh something were to happen to  Terry before he could make an official transition   uh that Laura Pula is the design moving forward  with the bills and then uh I heard today a new bit   of information I updated my story you wouldn't  find it anywhere on the Sabers website or at   nhl.com uh but Laura Pula is an alternate governor  of the Buffalo Sabers and has been representing   the team at NHL meetings she's not on either front  office directory and so that's a type of thing   that uh you know I've been hearing from um a lot  of folks in the building out of the building the   the mystery the the secrecy regarding the Pula  family it's only adding to I think the mystery   um and I heard I heard from uh from someone today  who said that everything just feels very unstable   and uh I think I I I understand that and it seems  very volatile when answers are in short supply so   that's what I've been working on uh for the last  couple of weeks the two different stories one   Terry pugula selling 25% roughly of the Buffalo  Sabers we did or the Buffalo Bills I'm sorry uh   we did talk about that on the most recent podcast  but then uh right afterwards you know Lindy Ruff   is the new head coach and the bills have a draft  and then this uh story that I'm doing on the Pula   family and Laura pula's rise uh um prevented us  from doing the usual podcast schedule so here we   are Jonah I don't know where you want to start  of all those things uh that you want to get into   first what intrigues you the most well I kind  of wanted to ask you um from your reporting and   and what you've written so far and what you've  learned about this Pula ownership shakeup in a   way um you know there's a lot of interesting and  and some of it's very sad Palace Intrigue going   on and you know if you're following the Pula  family as if they're you know the Royal Family   of Buffalo sports and or if you're a business  reporter there's a lot to unpack and a lot to   analyze there but from a sports angle from for the  Buffalo sports fans kind of what do you think are   the ramifications of any of these changes if there  is anything that uh you know will notice on the   field on the ice or within the sports teams  that's a great place to start Jonah because   that's the upshot right people uh in fact one of  the first responses to my story when I tweeted   it out was yesterday was I don't give an f about  one billionaire given a piece of his team to his   billionaire daughter or something along those  EG but there are ramifications we don't know   what they are yet though and there are a couple of  things at play you know Terry Pula is in his 70s   and as we saw with his wife who is much younger  than he is nothing is guaranteed and that is why   the NFL is so proactive regarding its secession  planning procedures I'm not as up on what the NHL   requires of its teams uh with a secession plan  but we're talking about assets that aren't worth   nearly as much they aren't as coveted you know  the NFL is and way more advanced in terms of its   business operations as anyone can see everything  from what we hear from collective bargaining   agreements all down to the product that we see  on television uh that the NFL is way far ahead   of the NHL when it comes to its policies the way  it thinks the Way It prepares it's as a business   as a as its own little universe and so the NFL um  and I use this example in my story in 2019 when   the Denver bronos were sold it happened after  an incredible amount of family infighting Pat   Bolan uh the the owner of the team had Alzheimer's  disease and it was progressing and he knew it was   progressing when he put the the rules in place for  who would take over eventually he was still with   it enough he turned the team over to some trustees  uh Joe Ellis the team's president being among them   and they were then given guidelines to Shepherd  the team to its next owner and I can get into   all the little details but the very basic surface  area point was the trust was to determine among   the children the best possible person who was whe  whether they had the proper degrees or experience   interest the wherewithal the trust was basically  a vetting arm uh for this uh you know for for Pat   Bolan and there was so much infighting and so much  there was a prior marriage and different and there   that the trustees decided what was best for the  Broncos was to sell to somebody else and so it   was a mess and it was a mess even though it was  set up with the NFL's help you know the NFL was   kind of helping them along they thought they had  everything in place and done it properly and for   this most uh efficient the smoothest transition to  the air of the who would who would run the Broncos   and it still was screwed up royally so as it was  explained to me the NFL then put in some extra   rules or some extra emphasis within its secession  plan policies that you need to designate an actual   family member with controlling interest now how  does this sale of the team to a limited partner   affect it I'm not entirely sure I'll be honest  because the NFL was not helpful with me in in   reporting this story they are incredibly secretive  when it comes to ownership bylaws requirements   I mean they'll give you the basic stuff like  you know it used to be you weren't allowed to   own another sports team in a different Market or  they'll give you some of that stuff but in terms   of the nitty-gritty what goes on when these other  31 teams need to approve the next owner uh or vet   who they want to join their Club is all pretty  clandestine um so uh but as it's been explained   to me is that the NFL felt Lucky in the Broncos  situation that Joe Ellis was the adult in the room   and that had Pat Bolan not included somebody like  Joe Ellis in his trust uh that it really could   have gone sideways it really could have turned  into an embarrassing sequence of events for the   NFL and its owners its fellow owners and that is  what they're ultimately trying to do well they   ultimately are making money but I think that uh  the number two uh mission of the NFL is to protect   its 32 owners or 31 and then the Green Bay Packers  um they are they circle the wagons way better than   the Buffalo Bills or Chris Burman could ever  dream so um so yeah so the NFL just needed they   they want you to have that designated family  member to handle the transition in that period   in that synapse of previous owner can no longer  make the decisions which we see um and to the next   official owner whether it's going to be whoever  owns this chunk of the bills and maybe has right   of first refusal or maybe Terry Pula says my kids  are all going to get the Buffalo Bills uh in equal   um percentages and I have designated Laura to be  the the one who has the extra uh one percent or   the or the controlling Hammer uh whatever that  wishes are there is still a period in which you   need to get from the previous owner to the next  owner and that this this um the necessity for   Laura Pula as the next uh the design is required  in that regard so again it just adds a little   extra mystery this is a far cry from 10 years  ago Jonah when Terry Pula stood on that riser   in the uh Fieldhouse and said the bills are here  to stay uh and his reasoning was very sound he   wasn't lying the bills are here to stay because he  said at that at that introductory news conference   I'm going to give these to my kids someday well  his wife was vibrant and alive and obviously with   the age difference 18 years I think it is when  Terry could no longer run the teams anymore his   wife would be the one to run them until the kids  are sufficiently ready to do it themselves and   you remove Kim and everything changes immediately  then you take a look at the skyrocketing values   of sports when the when the pulas bought the  bills for $1.4 billion just 10 years ago it   was a record the record has since been broken with  every subsequent sale the Broncos broke the record   um the Washington commanders most recently broke  the record at $ 6.05 billion Stephen Ross just   yesterday or the day before uh there's a report  out there that he turned down1 billion dollar for   the Miami Dolphins now that includes a stadium  and he has an an Affiliated F Formula 1 race   involved so that's baked in there a little bit  but 10 billion doar Steven Ross turned down for   the Miami Dolphins he's he's also doing something  similar with Terry pugula he has now bypassed his   wife as the de the the next controlling owner and  is designated his daughter um and I know I'm going   on and on here Jonah you know you work on a story  and this stuff just kind of falls out your mouth   uh after a while but I will say that I think  forbes's uh average price is somewhere around   5.1 billion do that's their valuation or their  estimation for an average NFL team so okay $5.1   billion bills are obviously at the bottom end  of the team so maybe let's say they're at four   or four and a half this is a team that Terry Pula  couldn't have en well maybe could have envisioned   it but it's a lot different to transfer a one a  $1.4 billion asset to your children than it is A5   billion doll asset to your children and that's  just where the number was when Forbes did its   valuations back in December who knows what they're  going to that's obviously going to go up as the   broadcast deals go up as Revenue new revenue  streams are found and tapped into like gambling   like you know who knows what's coming next um so  anyway it's uh it's so what's going to happen next   we don't know but there is more uncertainty than  ever as to what will happen and who will be the   one deciding what happens you know a lot of this  would be rather normal and less newsworthy if if   Laura pugula was the only child of Terry Pula  or had been the oldest child that had always   been around and always assumed to be the one  to take this role especially with her business   Acumen and experience in the oil business but the  mystery seems to come from her coming out of the   Shadows a bit and not being uh a public facing  person involved with these sports franchises for   many many years but becoming more and more part  of the ownership group or the leadership on the   Mast head if you will um not on the mast well  but that's the thing that makes it even more   intriguing she's doing all these things and she's  not named anywhere she's not on the she's not in   the directory she's not on the team website and  yet she is she owns Equity or she has some equity   in the bills and is an alternate governor of the  Sabres and yet she's nowhere listed right so maybe   that's the wrong analogy but I mean what would  you say she's showing her face a lot more often it   owners she's around and and and people have been  noticing obviously she was at Lindy she was the   only pugula child at Lindy Ruffs introductory news  conference she was standing on stage for the photo   op helping hold up the the number 24 jersey in  front of Lindy Ruff and her father and and Kevin   Adams yeah and sitting front row next to Pete  gelly and seemingly being a decision maker and   a power broker uh just from the appearances of of  where she was standing and and who she was walking   with and things like that so I think that's that's  the interesting part of it is what's changing now   if she has more control and more power to assert  over her father and the business in general and I   think back to a conversation we had an episode or  two on this ago on this podcast and just the way   I thought about things you know I think it's  widely assumed and probably true in some ways   that um ownership and Terry Pula had some say and  some role in in the Savers coaching change uh the   decision to move on from D Granado and hire Lindy  Ruff absolutely um for many of us that covered the   Sabers dayto day and and the people who travel  with the team were there even more than I was   um there was some surprise we shouldn't have been  that surprised but there was maybe some surprise   because it didn't seem like it was going that way  it wasn't you weren't hearing a lot of Whispers   and rumors about Don Granado in fact many of the  reporters Matthew Farber being one of them that   had asked real directly of Kevin Adams were told  that Don Granado was coming back and it did seem   like um that he wasn't really on the hot seat  until the very end of the season when it seemed   like the temperature changed a little bit and  then as soon as the season was over changed a lot   and I suspected when we talked before that that  seemed to coincide with Pete gelly coming in and   starting his job and that maybe there were  marketing and business reasons why it was   decided the Sabers needed a new coach and a a  more marketable name and a more marketable face   as you can see Lindy Ruff is on billboards all  over town now and it's it's a story that's a lot   easier for the Sabres to sell with Lindy Ruff as  the new coach than bringing back the Old Coach but   this timing also seems to coincide with you know  the bombshell that you uh mentioned earlier about   Laura poua being the um co-governance governor  of the squ of the team you wonder if she has some   role in that uh decision to make a change and and  do something different and and go back to the old   coach that it's largely believ that Terry Pula  maybe regretted firing Lindy Ruff in the first   place but maybe this wasn't all Terry pula's  wishes and decision to to make that move let   me I don't know where the is going to go uh but  but sometimes that makes for good uh good radio   right um I have a way and I have a thought in my  head I'm not 100% sure how to how to articulate it   so I'm going to just describe uh when people ask  me and have asked me over the years uh regarding   the Pula family or the intentions or the future  I spoke with a degree of certainty based on what   I was being told you know there is a power in the  messaging that comes from an organization and if I   believe what I'm being told I have a tendency to  then you know if I believe in it if I believe in   the person telling me this and I believe in what  they're saying and it makes sense to me and I'm   obviously able to check it out with some other  people too I don't just take it at total face   value but then I can go ahead and say or write  in a satchel when somebody asks me a question or   we're sitting at Elmos and somebody leans over and  says hey what's going on with this or you know are   the Bills ever going to move especially during all  the stadium stuff you know is there are the bills   are they is there really a chance they could move  if they don't get the stadium deal they want and   I was able to express with a degree of certainty  um what I thought was going to happen and I think   and it always was you don't have anything to  worry about and I still think in general not   much to worry about but I don't believe in the  messaging that much anymore and the re well I   as much yeah I don't believe as much I'm going to  say I don't believe it I don't believe I'm not as   Resolute as I used to because and this happens  there's been an erosion like there's been such   a cycle of Executives um with uh with the Pula  uh sports teams there's been you know down to   you know with the exception of Brandon bean and  and Shawn McDermot even with the coaches there's   been really no stability um so the voices are  constantly changing I'm constantly having to learn   how you know about this next person who's telling  me uh is he telling me what I want to hear   am I getting fluffed am I you know what what's  happening you know you have to have to read this I   will say that when I was doing this story on Laura  pagul and I worked on it for months literally for   months uh and I hang on let me stop not the Laura  Pula part uh of Kim Pula being incapacitated Terry   Pula being her guardian what the Ram ifications  are for that and then you know the next step being   Laura's Ascension you know so that's all in there  the secession planning there's it's not I don't   want to just say this is a you know this wasn't  just a story about Laura pugula it's bigger than   that and in fact I think the most significant part  for me is uh finally some sort of definitive legal   in a court document by the way designation that  Kim pugula has been legally incapacitated you know   she's still listed as the owner uh her picture is  still on the websites you know she but she's not   coming back and I know from talking to rank and  file employees they were still wondering I think   they were still holding out hope there was a myy  so that to me was the most newsworthy part was   for the first time yes Jessica pugula wrote the  column in the uh for the uh the players Tribune   in which she said what happened to her mom but for  the first time in a document or some sort you know   there was an official word as to to Kim pula's  condition um so that to me is the most significant   part of all this and then maybe Laura to a certain  degree it was the way it was at first explained to   me when I started asking questions about her role  with the team was this isn't a story why are you   writing this story this is not you know she has  no I mean I I don't even see her around here when   we're in meetings I never have a sense that Laura  pagul was making a decision you know okay well   that was a bit of information early in the process  and then as time goes on I keep learning that   she's involved in this meeting and she's involved  in that meeting and she's representing the she's   at the owner meetings at Roger G Roger Goodell's  state of the League address on the first night of   the owners meetings in March Laura pugula was the  only pugula in there or well I don't know if she   she was rep she was representing ownership Terry  Pula was sitting with Scot ratc of populace the   the company that's building that the architects  of the new stadium Scott ratc former Buffalo Bills   linebacker by the way Penn State guy Terry's a big  Penn State guy architect you know BSD at um uh at   populace and so Terry pagul and Scott risc sat at  a table just off the uh Ritz Carlton bar uh while   Roger Goodell was giving his state of the league  speech and Laura pugula was in there not Terry   um how do I know because I was sitting 10 feet  from Terry while while the state of the League   meeting was going on I was not at a table near  the bar I was in I was at the bar but hey you   learn things at the bar sometimes and but I kept  being told Laura's Laura's got no influence no   involvement and then we come to find you know  she's at Lindy ruff's news conference she's   involved in this meeting she's involved in that  meeting she's a alternate Governor which I just   found out today because the NHL website you know  doesn't update this stuff I finally reach out to   the NHL and they confirmed it she's an alternate  Governor so I'm starting to wonder if you're going   to tell me that she has no involvement and this  is all trivial and this is not a story which is   something that you want to do when you don't  want the a story to be told you know Jonah   we've both gone through that process right when  you go with something that maybe is inconvenient   and somebody tries to convince you that it's not  worth your time to even bother with it well now   I'm starting to wonder well what else what else  can I believe um you know so I don't want to   get too far into my other thoughts you know the  I'll keep them to myself and act accordingly as   I move forward but if anybody asks me about the  future of these teams anymore the only thing I   can point to is the 30-year lease which is like  what people used to do with Ralph Wilson as far   as we this is as far as I can go with telling you  about the Assurance of the future of your Buffalo   bills or your Buffalo Sabers is to look at the  lease because all the other things where I would   be told and assured and people who I was like  all right well now I I don't know I don't have   that foundation in my conviction of people I'm  talking to anymore it's changed over so much it's   secretive it's fuzzy there are no announcements as  to who's really in charge or who's doing this role   and when you start seeing these things and things  being hidden or kept secret done quietly then look   I'm not so the the team didn't want me reporting  these things and if I didn't we still wouldn't   anyways I get that was just my little Soliloquy I  guess of six months ago I would be I felt like I   could probably answer any question with a a strong  degree of confidence regarding business type stuff   and the future of this or the future of that and  I I can't I'm I'm going to admit I don't think I   can anymore that everything it's back to like the  basic journalism tenant of when your mother tells   you she loves you you go at go get a sec a Second  Source you know it's a joke a little cliche or a   little you know a a chestnut of of learning how to  do journalism 101 um it's it's just it's it's it's   a new world now and and um I think I don't think  we're totally hitting the reset button in terms   of uh expectations in the future but I think now  we're getting to the point where I can only point   at a document and say this is what this document  says so that's all I can go on right now one big   difference between you know the current state  and by the way by the way and probably I should   have slotted this in very early in my Soliloquy  six months ago or whatever it was Terry Pula was   not selling any of the bills I mean that would  have been a ridiculous thing we're not it's not   just what I'm being told it's the actions that are  taking place you know people used to I I used to   say with a degree of certainty the Sabers are not  for sale you know all that rumor that was going   along the Sabers are not for sale the Sabers are  not for sale look I don't know what to tell you   my sources tell me Terry pagul is not selling the  Sabers well and then I could have said the same   well he's absolutely not selling any of the or  selling the bills and I would also say or a piece   of because I didn't want to quibble I didn't want  to get into semantics part or partial nothing and   so now here we he now the poulas have hired a firm  to shop a chunk of the team everything's changing   everything's changing so that is so it's not just  what I'm being told and maybe I don't believe it   or maybe I'm I'm suspicious more so than I've  ever been since the since the the Ralph Wilson   era since the end of the Ralph Wilson era um it's  the it's the actions also it's the fact that we   never would have imagined Terry Pula selling a  chunk of the bills not that long ago and now here   they've admitted that they're looking to sell a  chunk of the bills well the big difference Ralph   Wilson for the most part always told us what he  was thinking and what he wanted and what was going   on and especially with the succession plan he  made it clear it's I don't know how many years it   was but it at some point before his death several  years before his death that his his wife and his   children would not inherit the team that the trust  would sell and that created I think more anxiety   than there is now in the situation the belief that  the bills would be sold and moved to another city   I think was a bigger threat than it seems to be  now you know Terry pagul is also younger than R   fosen was at that point in time so even though  there is uncertainty I don't think there's as   much to fear about the Bills or the Sabers leaving  Buffalo or or that kind of future of the franchise   the stadium and the stadium lease plays into that  bit but what we lost with Ralph Wilson and and   also a little bit with Kim Pula was ownership that  spoke to the public was a little bit more media   accessible Kim Pula had a podcast um and didn't  do a lot of media but did seem to do interviews   and express her beliefs and the team and the  organization and the franchises hopes and goals   and what they wanted to do somewhat frequently  and Terry Pula does not do that and at this point   we're not hearing anything like that from Laura  pugula uh we don't know you might know but you   know the public doesn't know how any of the  other children how Jesse or um Kelly and Matt   and pula's other children how their reaction is  to this and we we don't know what the ownership   is thinking on things that range from you know  trading Stefan Diggs to you know the hiring   and firing of coaches and bigger things about  the future of the franchise and the businesses   and all the investments in Buffalo we used to know  a lot more about what these business people were   doing and thinking and feeling and now we're left  to speculate or just read your stories is really   kind of the only way we learn some of these things  and I think where it becomes also more dangerous   to navigate for for me as somebody who's trying  to get out the clearest bit of information as   he can is the amount of noise around the team that  that tends to fill the vacuum in the absence of uh   stronger messaging there is a long list for  whatever reasons they are there is a long   long list of former bills and Sabers Executives  knocking around Western New York and not just   Western New York they found some other jobs and  they all have thoughts and they all have theories   and I think sometimes a few of them get together  and they don't concoct a story but but they they   sit around and try to speculate what's going  on educated speculation and then they come to   kind of an agreement of yeah you know what that's  probably it that's probably it and then they all   start kind of saying it and so I might be in this  segment of Western New York uh um a circle you   know a circle of people and I hear from a certain  former executive this and I go talk to a totally   different circuit C uh um circle of people and  hear the same thing coming from another form it's   probably because they've talked together maybe  they golf together maybe they get to the 19th   to together but there are so many people that get  together and talk about this and these theories   and speculation bubbles to the surface from people  who might know and they are credible to a lot to   a segment of well to a lot of people if you if  if one of these people I'm thinking know name   I don't want to name anybody because I don't want  to make it seem like I'm you know former Larry   Quinn not Larry Quinn I'm just gonna invent far  as we can go okay Joe Joe Johnson you know former   bills former psse executive Joe Johnson comes  walking into the bar and uh you know you're   having your wings and he sits down he's like hey  man good to see you I haven't seen you in months   yeah it's true we haven't seen each other in  months I haven't sent you hey well this is you   know what I'm hearing I'm hearing this well Joe  Johnson has sources and Joe you know there's all   so these thing or it's not to Tim Graham it's  to somebody else it's to a lawyer in town or   a prominent accountant in town or a certain  politician in town and it starts circulating   almost you that's what fills the vacuum and so  yeah a lot of these things come across my transom   and I filter them out and US probably 1% I'll take  it forward and say hey I'm hearing this is there   any confirmation to this or I'll check into it  most of it I just absorb as yeah interesting you   know that's interesting because I know that there  are so many agendas there's so many different   people out there you're talking about a lot of  people who've been fired you know so there's a   lot that I need to filter and process most of it  will never see the light of day even in terms of   me asking somebody of consequence to confirm or  deny it um but it's out there in this market a lot   and you also have two other companies that add  to this because they are people who might know   former New Era people former Delaware North people  everybody or current for that matter everybody's   got enough juice to possibly be true and so you  H that's the thing that you know again I'm not   boning this as a journalist I'm saying that there  are a lot of people in town and this is why how   strong rumors get started and are tough to deal  with and the bills and Sab neigh know that these   rumors are tough to deal with and Terry Pula  absolutely knows these rumors are difficult   to deal with and yet they still are they still  decline to be more transparent uh about these   types of things and so it's I just think it's I  I guess if I were on their staff I would say we   we need to we need to combat this more than just  sit back and let it happen we can't just be pass   in terms of the way we run these teams this  is a small town everybody's talking there's   a lot of prominent people here who have  axes to grind or whatever um we need to   be out there in more forward facing and  without Kim in that role um and she could   have she should have been doing it more  than even she was based in my opinion but   you remove that is as her being the only one to  do it and it creates a mess it creates a lot of   bad info and again that's why I rely on things  like court documents and dealing with you know   high high-placed sources who aren't of the Bills  or the Sabers perhaps at the league office whether   it be the NFL the uh Major League Baseball  Major National Hockey League um whether it   be uh anything and you're you're constantly you  know trying to get the best information you can   and again like I said I've been working on the  story for five months the bills had more than   ample opportunity to comment for the story if they  wanted to we bent over backwards we thought our   editors I had four different editors on this part  on this most recent story um the National Football   League wanted nothing to do with it um it's just  it's interesting to me uh I mean it's it's it's   fascinating to me probably to me more than the  average fan obviously uh because I deal with this   information but also as a fan you wonder what's  going to happen with your team and you're going   to invest this money there's the taxpayer money  that you really have no say over your elected   officials have decided to give this money uh from  the state and the county to build a new stadium   but then the individual fan if you're a season  ticket holder you have to pay for this PSL and you   should have I think on my primary level is this is  a business and they could do with it whatever they   want any any business any private business you  can do with it whatever you want but this is a   Civic this is a Community Asset and the teams  never hesitate to lean on that leverage to get   their money to extract money out of the public and  their fans pockets and I think that in exchange   for that you need to give up some transparency  you need to give up or I said you should give up   some of your privacy you should be forced to be  more transparent about who you are who's making   the decisions and where your money is going  as a taxpayer SL season ticket holder well said that comes from somebody who was saying I  wish he'd wrap this up so we could change this   I I wanted to react to something that you said you  know several paragraphs ago um so it's not really   a response to where you finished to the but back  to the first verse um well you know I mentioned   Larry Quinn because that's a name that it hars  back to a Time mostly under previous ownerships   but not not always when the team Executives you  know if there was a bad rumor out there a rumor   that they wanted to squash they'd give a pound  the table press conference and and put that put   out that fire or or you had their cell number  and you call them and they'd give you a quote   on the record not well you need to say this is  from a team Source you didn't get this from me   but no we're not trading Dominic ashik yeah they  could speak for the team and the organization and   ownership in some ways and there was some of that  when Terry Pula first bought the Sabres with Ted   black and there were with the bills with Russ  Brandon but over time you know those president   roles they either don't exist anymore or Terry  Pula and Kim Pula before him held those roles but   did not speak in that you know didn't communicate  with the fan base in the same way the previous   team Presidents had and now you know there are  Executives um but it doesn't seem like they have   the same voice and the same and some of this is  just even from the entertainment and storytelling   there are less characters in the bills and the  Sabers sagas uh to the fans and to the media   than Larry Quinn and Russ Brandon and people like  that were and I think there's something lost in   that especially with ownership that doesn't do it  itself and talk Tom Dono had a radio show didn't   he if I remember correctly yeah yeah well I was  I was going but he was team president so he's   a good example but not the general yeah Bill  Bill say they're load loaded with these people   but yeah they you're right they've evaporated  Pat La Fontaine you could imagine him having I   mean whatever happened with that but yeah you  could imagine these types of people being the   the face of the franchise yeah and then questions  and responsibilities for things go to the general   managers Brandon bean and Kevin Adams and either  sometimes they really can't Broach subjects or   they have to do it in delicate ways um there's  just there's a of communication that's needed   whether it's from Team presidents team Executives  or ownership itself that's been missing from both   of these franchises for a good while now and  even more so in the past year and a half two   years yeah I think paranoia has has grown in  sports in general I don't know that that's   just a Pula sports team aspect but it certainly  is emphasized here there are other teams that   aren't paranoid uh you know uh Jordan rodrig who  covers the Rams for the athletic just put out a   year-long piece that she did on scouting in which  she was allowed to Shadow The Scouting department   on College visits and working out players I mean  this is something that is just not done uh Bill   bich let Michael Holly sit in uh I think it's  Patriot Reign there's a handful of Patriots books   out there but I think it was Patriot rain was the  one in which he let a Boston Globe columnist sit   in with the team on meetings for a full year to  write about what it's like behind the scenes at   the New England Patriots this was Bill bich this  is when they were winning Super Bowls I mean so   you know that it does happen out there and look  and let's also not go too much farther without   mentioning Brandon Bean being about as CL the  class of transparency among probably any general   manager maybe not with you know what the Rams were  doing with uh letting everybody you know letting   somebody tag along on your your scouting trips  but Brandon bean and uh and Joe Shane when he   was the assistant general manager once let Matthew  Fairburn go on the team plane to go on a scouting   trip and go watch game or college football games  and look at players and stuff he they've been open   um but that's Brandon bean and uh there are when  it comes to other things I mean that's football   operations Brandon Bean should not be talking uh  about for instance Teo spikes being pissed off   at the way the bills are treating the alumni you  know Brandon Bean was the only person who could   talk about that last year if you recall that was a  story that went viral a photo of Teo spikes that I   thought was irresponsible on Teo spikes' part it  was misleading um and so but the follow-up story   it was Brandon Bean who had to handle it this  guy's trying to win a Super Bowl he shouldn't   have to worry about this [ __ ] but there's nobody  else to do it there is there's Terry's not going   to talk about it who would have talked about it  they didn't have a COO at the time because John   Roth had been fired so who's going to do it well  it's got to be got to be Terry or it's got to be   Brandon bean and so yeah five stars five  stars Brandon Bean best best executive I've   ever worked with uh in terms of accessibility  transparency he deserves High Praise he's W   NFL awards for it uh the good guy award  at the at the league level all that type   of stuff bends over backwards for you well  never turns down an interview um but that's   football operation stuff and we're talking  about you know the the business side of it   and that's been and the S on the Sabers  you don't really have that either but um   yeah badly missing um your thoughts on Lindy  Ruff as the next head coach of the Buffalo Sabres I mean I I might be more interested in your  thoughts haven't covered them and know him a lot   better than I do and what you think the changes  that he'll make with the way he coaches the team   and and also maybe this is a better discussion  off the podcast but this is the kind of thing   we talk about on this podcast what it's going to  be like covering them and the differences between   Lindy Ruff and and coaches that have succeeded  him and that I've covered because I didn't cover   the Savers back before Lindy Ruff was fired 11  years ago but initially my reaction was somewhat   surprised and the same with Don Granado being  fired shouldn't have been surprised I didn't   get the read from Kevin Adams from the Press conf  that this was already the move he wanted to make   and it was decided it seemed like he was Resolute  in looking around and finding his guy and the best   coach and maybe that is what he did and maybe he  did talk to double digit candidates in five nights   and find that uh you like as soon as those words  came out of his mouth he was automatically like oh   [ __ ] because the next words out of his mouth  were I was taking calls as soon as that press   conference was over and I was taking them late  into the night and early in the morning man I   was because you're doing the math you're like m  you interviewed two two people a day at least I   thought that was funny yeah it really and this  is this is my analysis not reporting anything   concrete that I've heard but it really does  seem at this point like this was decided maybe   even before the season ended but before or right  around the time that Don Granado was fired that   Lindy Ruff would be hired as the next coach and  that maybe a coaching search wasn't necessary um   Kevin Adams at his initial press conference made  it sound like he was going to go on a coaching   search although he did drop some hints that maybe  it wouldn't be a wide net that he kind of knew a   few names and you know maybe maybe he did want  Rob bremore and found out that that wouldn't be   possible and then he circled his way back you know  there's also been somebody tweeted that uh you   know they talked to Craig baru and he didn't want  to uh you know discuss the job with the Sabers so   maybe they got some rejections and went to Lindy  Ruff because they knew they weren't going to get   rejected by him all that said um I think I think  it's going to have a positive effect on the team   and the development and where this roster is and  the youth and what it needs and there were so many   times I think in previous Seasons where you you'd  almost say it kind of in justess you'd be like oh   what would this be like if Lindy Ru was coaching  this team how would this player be used or how   would that game How would how would they have  reacted to that player how would things go with   Lindy Ruff as the coach and it was thought of like  well that can't happen because he's the coach of   the New Jersey Devils and that last year they're  having a good year and it actually although   you did report that he interviewed in 2019 when  they hired Ralph Krueger this reunion could have   happened sooner other than that point in time my  source on that by the way was uh I can re I think   I said it that was not like a league source told  me that Lindy Ruff interviewed for that job that   Ralph Krueger got Lindy Ruff told me and I think  I was interviewing him for another story and at   the end of the call I'm like did you interview  for that job and there was no like hey this is   off the Record in fact Lindy Ruff doesn't do off  the Record which is pretty cool I think he's one   of the only people I've ever dealt with he's like  I I asked him one time I'm like you know if this   you want to say that I just want to ask you a  quick question if you want to keep it off the   Record and he's like there is no off the record I  was like all right and so yeah Lindy Ruff himself   is the one who told me he wanted that job didn't  get it he was uh not he was he was a little upset   about it so it's a good buffalo story I think  more fans than not like having Lindy Ruff back   in the sabers fold and like the reunion aspect  of it and you know the Nostalgia even though   Kevin Adams has been very adamant and trying  to say that that didn't play much of a role in   bringing back Lindy Ruff but from the marketing  and storytelling and ultimately ticket selling   and getting the fan base excited that Nostalgia is  very important you can see it in the videos at the   saber social media team is promoting and they put  him in the black and red jacket you know he played   and Coach teams that wore blue and gold but  he's very strongly identified with those really   successful teams 99 that went to The Cup Final and  he's with all the Wardrobe changes right yeah the   slug even the slug teams you know he coached those  too um so there's you know this is like a movie   and you're casting characters Lindy Ruff is the  best coach to bring back you know as a recurring   character and a former star and he played here was  a team captain still lives here you know there's   a lot of reasons why Lindy Ruff was the best  choice to be the new face of the Sabres which this   franchise really needs even with excellent players  none of those players I think have really emerged   from a personality standpoint as the face of the  franchise they didn't have that since they traded   Jack eel Don Granado was kind of that face of the  franchise because he spoke so often and was very   accessible but they didn't win and he wasn't a big  star of a coach to to Really succeed in doing that   and maybe that's part of the reason why you know  they haven't been filling the building there's   a lot of reasons why they haven't been filling  the building but I think Lindy Ruff being the   coach helps in that regard and I do think he's  going to have a positive effect on the team on   the ice especially where they are at um where a  lot of players are at in their development Curves   in their age I think it's a good situation for  Lindy Ruff because this team I think is set up   to succeed next year regardless of the coaching  but his coaching style is what a lot of these   players in this group needs right now maybe with a  few W roster tweaks but all the things that we've   wanteded you know a more aggressive forwards  and and better structure on defense Lindy Ruff   is gonna bring um but and not to knock Lindy Ruff  because like I'm saying I do think he's going to   lead them to the playoffs and take this team to  that next step and succeed here in that regard   but Lindy Ruff got fired by the Sabres 11 years  ago for reasons and Lindy Ruff was fired by the   Dallas Stars four or five years ago whenever that  was and most recently fired in season with five   years left on his contract by the New Jersey  Devils for reasons and and you have to look   back and talk to a lot of people to figure out if  that's a pattern if it's the same reason why after   a certain number of years it stopped working and  that's the NHL they make coaching changes quickly   very often but it you know you wonder if is Don  Granado was probably the right coach for that   past moment in time with the Sabers to get them  from the bottom where they were with the losing   streaks and Jack eel wanting to be traded and  holding out basically to where they were almost   being a competitive team and being almost in the  playoffs and now Lindy Ruff seems like the right   man for the job of getting him to that next level  of in the playoffs and you know somewhat return to   Glory but I wonder if he's really the right coach  to try to win a Stanley Cup and with all the young   players and the assets the Savers have you know  there is an opportunity to be a championship team   if the Right Moves are made you know a lot of that  falls on the general manager Kevin Adams but if   if they make the Right Moves and they develop the  right players in the right way and have the right   coaching they can compete for Stanley Cups and  win multiple Stanley Cups and maybe maybe not   maybe this is where I'll ask you to anal analyze  this because you covered Lindy Ruff coaching the   Sabers to the Eastern Conference Finals I don't  think you were here when they went to The Cup   finals in 99 but no I started right after that  yeah do you think Lindy Ruff can take this team   all the way to the top of the Mountaintop and  how much time does he have left to do that and   be that coach I think he can um I think his floor  is getting in the playoffs he's not going to mess   it up and this is a team that desperately needs  to get into the playoffs I think as you mentioned   there's the push aspect of it he is a motivator um  a manipulator in a good way like he's able to get   the most out of guys uh maybe his message wears  out after a while but he signed only a twoyear   contract I think that's healthy um I wonder if uh  if he'll be the next general manager quite frankly   but uh that's a discussion for another podcast  uh but actually well go on I do actually want to   dive in on that a little bit Yeah but he has gone  deep into the playoffs a bunch of times and and   getting into the playoffs and going long has a lot  to do with managing your roster it is getting you   ready for the stress and the pressure and the CLE  lights every other night for a month and a half or   however long it's going to take for you to make  your run and he's gone long a lot he's the type   of guy that it seemed like he enjoyed being the  lower seed because he liked breaking serve within   those first two games you know he his his record  as the lower seed is is fascinatingly good uh and   then his teams obviously they feed off energy  there's he's he he just see he's done it now no   he's not won the Stanley Cup but he's also taken  some teams of overachievers pretty deep so I think   he can do it I think he's he's has the experience  that's the one thing that always marveled me about   Don Granado and his staff other than the gending  coach they had no NHL postseason experience zero   they had some East Coast Hockey League playoff  experience I always wondered what was going to   happen with if Don Granado did get to the playoffs  I wanted just to see how he reacted in the moment   you know when when it's you know the intens that's  the thing that's so beautiful about the National   Hockey League is that the game changes from the  regular season to the postseason just it's it's   wild and that's what makes it so fun um I would  like to have seen if they if Don Granado was what   he was gonna do um but anyway so that's that's my  take on on Lindy Ruff I think he's is he the per   he might be actually the perfect choice in terms  of the most boxes being checked is he the choice   that if we were to look back on it 10 years from  now uh and you know maybe somebody could have done   a little different or a little better based on  their age or where they are in their careers or   you know whatever but I think for right now I  think Lindy Ruff is a great choice I think the   Nostalgia part of it is an added bonus I actually  agree with what Kevin Adams said I just found it   odd that he came out and said it it was almost  like he was defending the hire before Lindy Ruff   even had his introductory news conference  um and because you I don't think you need   to defend this hire uh because of all the things  I just said I think he's I I like it I think the   players are going to respond to him yeah the  right now is the important thing I think fans   and even us as media cover in this team should  live in the present and pay most attention to   the uniqueness of this story a coach coming back  who played for the franchise and you know how   interesting that is and turning this team that's  missed the playoffs in NHL record 13 Seasons into   a playoff team and how that happens what  changes are made or what um differences   we see from players who have played here for  a while but maybe have different elements of   their game that they'll showcase under different  coaching and just what what that's like over the   next year or two um but you know succession plans  is kind of the theme of this podcast and where we   started and I think it's very natural to kind of  think what comes next you mentioned Lindy Ruff   possibly being the next general manager of the  team it seems like he's like an assistant manager   perhaps getting Seth Apert ready to replace him  right well so there's that idea that maybe Seth   Apert who's doing a good job in Rochester and  you know the AMS are in the playoffs right now   so there's Intrigue in watching them if you think  Seth aert could potentially be a future Savers   coach or you know when the job was vacant a lot of  people thought maybe he would be a candidate to be   the next Sabers coach but is is he going to join  Lindy Ruffin assistant and maybe be the coach in   waiting for sometime down the line uh when Lindy  Ruff is not coaching the team anymore or is it   going to be somebody who has more of a background  with Lindy Ruff Michael Pekka or another former   player who's in the league that maybe from the  Lindy Ruff standpoint makes more sense than Seth   aert is that um understudy coaching waiting and  and figuring out who that is and then seeing that   play out and how that happens to three four years  down the line you know is something it probably   is a discussion for another podcast but it's an  interesting thing to start thinking about right   now yeah we're getting a little long here and I  still want to at least touch on the Bill's draft   um and the uh and and the bandits because you've  been covering them they're in the uh they're in   the nlll semi-finals at the moment about to start  a series against Toronto um so let's just shift   over to the Bills draft um I'll give my quick  thought do I know these players no uh I'm not   a huge college football guy I'm not a film guy I'm  not going to pretend to know that this guy is the   right fit or the worst fit any of that [ __ ]  I will say though I like the Bill's approach to   this draft I even said it on the Buffalo kickoff  live show my prediction as to what the bills were   going to do in the first round was trade out of it  and the reason being is that Brandon Bean a week   before the draft at a news conference said that he  did not have 28 first round grades on players and   that was where the bills were picking 28th overall  therefore if a first round pick doesn't have the   value of a first round pick trade it so that way  you can get the value and other things a little   further back so Brandon Bean ends up trading with  Carolina to move back to 32 and then trades with   uh who had the first pick was it uh was it Chicago  again or who who pick they get whatever 33 sorry   Carolina oh yeah second trade Kansas City was  the first TR right right right right of course   of course of course because of the Xavier worthy  we got you know that so that that drama I'm sorry   it's let me rephrase just so I can I'm going to  speak it again so that way hopefully I remember   and say it properly so the Bills trade from 28 to  32 with the Kansas City Chiefs and then trade with   Carolina to go from 32 to 33 to have the first  pick of the second day of the uh of the draft um   and gathered more assets and uh I heard uh someone  say I was listening to wgr one day and I can't   remember who said it and I thought it was spoken  very well my I I don't want to say the wrong   analyst but anyway they had somebody on the air  who mentioned um don't look at it as maybe losing   out on Xavier worthy and necessarily comparing um  Keon Coleman to Xavier worthy you got Keon Coleman   and Dwayne Carter the defensive tackle from Duke  you didn't just move back and maybe Lose a Guy and   whatever he's going to look like having Patrick  Mahomes throwing him the ball he's probably going   to look decent uh but you got additional assets  that's the whole point of trading back so I think   that the bills got a receiver that they were  happy with plus other things Dwayne Carter being   the headliner and everybody seems to love Dwayne  Carter the defensive tackle from duke won the news   conference you know man's man grown up sounded  like he was 30 years old he's been around the   world a few times you don't get into Duke easily  uh to begin with uh because of the grades that are   required and then you usually aren't a three-time  captain of your football team so it sounds like   this guy is classic sha mcdermit culture dude and  by the way he's pretty good yeah I mean that's   always the exercise and the justification you can  do when trading back you always get more assets so   there's always extra players and it's this player  plus that player it's the same logic that you I   know there were multiple moves involved in this  but in a sense this the bills got Josh alen and   travius white for trading away the pick that went  to Patrick Mahomes and for many years it seemed   like you know that was a good trade for the bills  now with travius white no longer on the team and   Patrick Mahomes has three Super Bowls and beaten  the bills in the playoffs as many times as he has   you wonder if you know that makes the same sense  as it did two three four five years ago if he made   that argument but I think the risk is look I  I do think the bills played this right if ke   Coleman was the guy they wanted they actually  played it perfectly being able to trade down   twice and still get the receiver that we assume  if they couldn't made a trade that's who they   would have taken at 28 but you know it wasn't  just Xavier worthy and if Xavier worthy burns   the bills in a playoff game I think it's going  to sting a lot for the fans and the team itself   that you know they had that opportunity Patrick  Mahomes is a quarterback who could have drafted   Xavier Worthy is a wide receiver that they could  have drafted and the these are the guys that are   beating the bills in the playoffs maybe that  won't happen maybe Xavier worthy will be a bust   and the bills will look brilliant for the moves  that they made but there were three receivers   taken before the bills picked again and Keon  Coleman was I think the eighth receiver drafted   there's seven in the first round eighth receiver  drafted that was the Bill's biggest need and it   was a wide receiver deep draft a lot of people  a lot of people thought they were going to trade   up for a receiver and get one of the top three or  four receivers in the draft they end getting the   eighth receiver they better be right he better be  as good or better than many of the receivers they   were taken in the first round because there were  an opportunity to get a very good receiver and   they let the entire league the entire round of the  draft every team in the league decide that seven   other receivers should have been drafted first and  then they picked the eighth guy at the top of the   second round and you look brilliant if he turns  into a first round Calibur receiver and you also   get Dwayne Carter out of that deal and everything  works out but I think you look stupid if he's not   as good as really not any of the receivers in  the draft but any of the receivers that they   could have had in the 20s they passed on that I  mean unless Dwayne Carter is an all pro and then   you say hey it worked out in the long run and I  like Keon Coleman he doesn't have to be an all pro   well no but I mean if is the Superstar and Keon  Coleman's the bus maybe that makes the trade work   out yes um maybe I I just to put a point you know  to I think to emphasize what you're saying I don't   and I don't even know well all right so I I'll  I'll lay it out and you can decide um as I was   talking I was giving my effusive praise to Brandon  Bean earlier I was asked this uh by someone um   uh I was I did a speaking engagement with Josh  Reid uh Channel 4 Sports director Josh Reid at   uh St Andrews Church and uh Kenmore uh earlier  this week and was asked never been there no   you should go you should go before they close it  because it's it's on the verge it's it's on the   list um but I was asked about uh something about  Brandon be and they were asking they were like   what's it really like you know with the media and  dealing with these guys and stuff like that and it   came out as part of the discussion that Brandon  Bean does not lie I've never caught Brandon Bean   telling a lie even a fib you know like guys do in  sport reports to smokees screen deflect all these   other types of things and when you ask especially  like when he's talking about what they made do in   the draft he speaks in hypotheticals and things  like that but when you ask him a question I've   never gone away or two weeks later found out hey  that man jerk he jerked me around you know like   I asked him a question about that he he told me  no and now that it came to be you know like all   that stuff which happens so often as you know  we were discussing earlier and I asked him   uh when he came down to talk to us after they  drafted Keon Coleman he came out to speak for a   few minutes before then returning to the draft  room so we could get started on Keon Coleman   coverage him being the first pick um and I asked  him because he said we were he had said the day   before we were ready to pick at 32 and Carolina  offered us uh a deal to move up we took it but we   were ready to pick a 32 so he sits down for this  new conference after they picked Keon Coleman and   I said was Keon Coleman who you were going to pick  at 32 and he said we had a group of players there   that we were looking at if Keon Coleman was who  they were going to take at 32 Brandon Bean would   have said yes so that to me was him saying they  would have taken Legette you know or whatever   but again they had a group of guys maybe Coleman  would have been the pick if they start if they   got no offers at all maybe it was Coleman maybe  it would have been Legette I don't know what but   I just think uh I I thought that was interesting  and that kind of plays into they had a group of   dudes that they were happy with but if somebody's  going to come by and give us some extra draft   picks we're going to take it and that's what they  did and that's smart that's smart football smart   roster management I should say um just last point  on the draft again I don't know these guys but you   take away from people you trust you know people  who you talk to or they have a strong opinion on   somebody people who's who's cred who's has high  credibility I was really um I was really drawn   to the Bill's draft room reaction to getting Cole  Bishop they were they seemed a borderline ecstatic   with this second round pick the safety from Utah  and then Brandon Bean said later that they were   looking to actually move up to make sure that they  got him but they couldn't find any takers to move   up they ended up still getting uh Cole Bishop  with the uh 30 or with the 60th pick overall Keon   Coleman was 33 Cole Bishop was 60 Dwayne Carter  was 95 those were your day two picks um so that to   me I that just leads me to believe that they they  feel Cole Bishop is going to be a very important   player in sha mcdermit defense I'm not going to  say he's going to be because I don't know but I   think that what part of my job as being being a  Storyteller or being somebody who's been around   the block once or twice is to tell you what you  should pay attention to as a fan or what I should   pay attention to and I was paying attention  to the reaction in the draft room to Cole them   getting Cole bishop and what's nice about Cole  Bishop is they probably don't need him to play   a lot right away it isn't a situation where he's  being drafted specifically to start in Micah Hy's   position or Jordan pu's position they might have  two starting safeties they almost definitely have   one in Taylor WP to take over that spot and he can  be you he can be brought along a little bit slowly   and not counted on to do too much especially from  the mental aspect of what the bills ask of their   safeties Cole Bishop is probably I I shouldn't say  probably but Cole Bishop has an excellent chance   of being that player eventually but asking a  rookie to do that on day one um seems like a   lot and could put your defense could compromise  your defense expecting too much out of that from   a rookie right away but because he doesn't have to  do that right away he can be used as a versatile   piece learning both safety spots nickel cornerback  you know different robber type that third safety   position that Jordan puyer and Taylor rap played  a bit last year almost like a linebacker and they   can play him to his strength and use him in all  different places to be a bit of a weapon as a   rookie but not be asked to do too much and then  when he does develop into an every down player   he can also still be used in different ways he's  learned the whole defense from different different   positions it just really is a great fit the way  Shawn McDermot develops defensive backs um not   having to trade up but still feeling one of the  biggest needs on the team with the second pick in   the second round yeah there's a lot to like about  the player and the pick and everything that went   into getting that guy your Bandit's thoughts Jonah  before we wrap this up well I've been covering I   covered about half of the home games I believe  this year in the first playoff game and they're   going into the league semifinals which in previous  years would have been the Conference Finals at   this point but that's not how the nlll does the  standings of the playoffs any longer but they're   still playing their rival to Toronto Rock the team  that they played in the Eastern Conference Finals   the past two years and swept them both times and  have actually beat him in five straight playoff   matchups going back in the past three postseasons  so this is like a you know a storied rivalry   in the NL and especially in this stage of the  playoffs it's the fourth year in a row they've met   and the bandits have had their number in all  five matchups and swept Toronto in the regular   season series winning both games by two goals but  Toronto the Toronto Rock are the number one seed   they had the best record in the league they only  lost three games all year two of those were to the   Bandit so they lost one other game and it's going  to be probably a hardfought series it opens up on   the road in Hamilton which is where the Toronto  Rock now play the bandits draw a lot of fans from   Southern Ontario there too it it might not be a  totally split crowd but it's going to be somewhat   of a split crowd and then game two back in Buffalo  on Sunday night I think they got about 18,000 fans   for the playoff game last week that was the  announced number it was a pretty full building   and that was with the third day of the draft and  maybe some other things going on that weekend I   think there's a good chance it could be closer to  a sellout this time and you know the bandits it's   the more I cover it the more you might get  interested in the lacrosse story lines and   the back and forth but the bandits really are an  event Bandit land and the energy in the building   a little bit cheaper to get in playoff atmosphere  which we haven't had in that building in 13 years   and you know the Bills play playoff games but  it's only one or two a year so having this kind   of playoff run and being able to go to multiple  playoff games they won the championship on their   home turf last year so these are you know from  an entertainment standpoint these are things that   don't happen with other sports here in Buffalo  very often so it's a fun thing to be a part of and   to follow whether the bandits ultimately win the  game or the championship or not but happened to be   you know one of the best teams in the league the  two leaders in the danne Smith and Josh burn were   one actually it was the other way around Josh burn  and Dan Smith were onew in the league and scoring   this year and I'm writing a story for wb.com  tonight about the midseason moves and tweaks   they made to get a little bit better on defense  and a little bit better on faceoffs they didn't   even have a Faceoff guy for half the year they  were pretty much conceding faceoffs and then they   made a move and got a guy that has helped them out  Conor frell is his name so there you know you get   into the Inside Lacrosse if you will aspects of  why the bandits win or lose because all the games   most of the games are close but from if you're not  already into it in that level just watch this team   you know the games on local television the road  games are on local television cw23 here in games   one and three the home game will be on ESPNU  Sunday's game uh game two but you could just   watch just to see uh you know the two leading  scorers in the league and the bandits are the   highest scoring team in the league and maybe the  biggest rival I think these are the two longest   standing franchises in the league in their same  City Buffalo I believe is the oldest franchise   that stayed in its own City since the start of  the league and Toronto number two they've played   in the playoffs many times over the years and  especially the past four postseasons so there's   a lot of story lines and entertainment value and  just watching that for that sake can you give the   TV again because I think I have I maybe wrote  it down wrong I had something else written down   so Friday night's game television Friday night's  game's on cw23 local it's channel 23 I think on   most Cable Systems but it's the CW network if you  happen to get that on streaming or something else   like that that's only in Western New York probably  some of Southern Ontario might pick up that   channel too right and then game two is ESPN ESPNU  ESPNU and then game three is back on cw23 yep okay   which is necessary it's a three- game series there  might not be a game three and then for people   outside of Buffalo that can't get cw23 all the  games are on ESPN plus and if you're a Canadian   listener TSN plus and I think TSN Television  I don't know that detail also has a game wgr   radio they do the game as well do you go up to  Hamilton tomorrow for game one I'm not going up   for game one but I think that if it goes to game  three deciding game uh that has not been decided   yet but you know that might be something that we  travel to cover um because it could be the last   game of the season for the bandits or it could be  the the game that they win and then move on to the   championship finals and it's on your air or next  star air I should say yep where the rights holders   do get at least in the home games I I haven't  covered any of the road games but in the home   games you know wbb news4 gets a little bit of not  extra access but closer access we get inside the   ropes a little bit um win these Gam GES are being  broadcast on our air which is you know it's good   for me Jonah thanks for this it's this is a long  podcast if you hung on this long thank you please   remember dble it's a double issue it's like the  Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue we didn't have   one lastek and we got to throw some sport stories  in there too uh yeah please subscribe like comment   do all the things rate US whatever whatever you're  allowed to do on your platform of choice click   those buttons it helps us get out there to a wider  audience and do our thing and we're grateful as   always to everybody for listening uh to Tim Graham  and friends brought to you by ctbk and uh we'll be   back uh sooner for the next episode than we were  from the last episode ctbk gives Executives and   owners of mid-market businesses unparalleled  confidence and Clarity so you can focus on   strategic objectives and organization success  their 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