Terry Pegula's legacy plan

ready wellcome everybody to a live edition of The Rock pal Report podcast just to get this off the top every single week this summer during the offseason maybe into the season I don't know we'll play it by year we're going to be going live here on YouTube now that Chris has convinced me that it was important to invest in all the technological infrastructure that we currently have Chris I got to say you out done yourself this is nice I mean I'm trying over here I mean it's it's new we've never done live stuff before so it's it's all new now now are there comments turned on here is there yeah yeah yeah I mean I don't know who's in I don't know who's in here we out of the G it really doesn't matter does it I mean at at this point in time what I'm I guess what I'm trying to say is guys we've never asked you to subscribe to anything and I still don't think you should but if you want to be part of the conversation you want to be able to watch live leave comments say things that I can react to or have no choice but to react to go ahead and give our YouTube page a follow that way you get notifications whenever we schedule a live episode we're going to be doing it all summer long like I said maybe into the season Chris had Chris is going to get this thing nailed down and it'll be running like a well oiled Machine by the time week one comes right allegedly allegedly we got a lot to go over tonight uh we're going to talk about the Terry pugula Legacy planning situation we're going to talk about the fifth year extension for Greg rouso and all the various implications and ideas around it but I want to start with this concept Chris with the you know the ending of draft season as you all like to call it Chris turned me on to this interesting dynamic in a hockey league that he plays in so imagine a world where you sign up like when I play for like when I sign up for softball I play like I I have my team I know what I know who's on my roster I know what the team's going to be I know what it's going to look like and so I register my team and then my team goes out there and plays it's my handpicked whoever I can get and that's what you that's what you have Chris plays in what's called a draft League it's 30 and over 30 and over everybody signs up and just gets assigned to a roster and they just make up a team you can get a I think it's one or two people so if someone else is playing you can sign up and request to be on their team which is usually granted but I don't know anyone I mean I know people that are in the league but I'm not reaching out going hey are you playing 30 and over want to be on the same team Chris I'm just just put me on a team on the way to the podcast tonight I texted you with a question about what we were going to have for dinner and you didn't look at your phone for like a 5050 minute period of time where I was finally forced to make an executive I have no doubt in my mind that if you're not checking your phone on that level in the middle of a conversation like that you probably don't have many friends you're gonna reach out to about hey a shuck you want to play some hockey together no not a not a chance at all with that said I found it interesting that in this draft League they get to see Chris's statistics and so that's kind of how they they're like because so they did like an exposition night where guys come out and skate and do a little thing and they can kind of see the guy who's doing like the people who are doing the assignments can figure out who needs to go where what their skill level might be they told Chris he doesn't have to come we have your stats is it weird that a group of people who are just looking at your box scores are going to pick your team based on it I've played in that league for God since like 2016 2017 so like when they see my name they know who I am and what teams I've played for like you're the guy who scored eight goals and three assists in a game last year that was a couple years ago but yes that happened okay so given the fact guys I I I know I crap all over him in his roller hockey but he's actually very good at it what round pick do you think you are in the hierarchy you figure how many teams are there 14 so out of 14 teams when they're going down the list saying where do we slot a guy like K Chris Krueger are you a first second or third round talent I would probably say second I probably used to be a first round like if I was 30 and immediately joined 30 and over then yeah first round Talent all day but I have a herniated disc in my back so so the so you're going to get flagged for a medical yes and at the same time even with a medical you still think you're a second round pick yeah I love it now the medical makes sense because I was about to say I was going to hit you with the the Dwight Sho and Jim when he's talking about how when Dwight says he owns a bed and breakfast with Satan and he goes In Your Wildest Dream you are the co-manager you are the co-manager of a bed and breakfast you're not even the boss and you only make $80,000 a year I don't know if roski's in here but it somebody wrote It's from Doug Drew needs to grow a huge mustache I actually used to have a mustache it's one of the more offensive things anyone's everever seen because being half Latino it does form like this real stereotypical push broom on top of my lip and it's thin it doesn't get bushy and I also tried to grow a goatee for the longest time and it would never connect here but not just like a spot there's like a 3-in gap so now it really like if I were to fill this in and fill this in it really looks like I'm trying to be one of the Three Musketeers and that's not a good look for anybody no it's not a good look for anybody guys draft season is over for us it's on for Chris and we have other fish to fry you know the news never stops churning in this week's Bills news update we kick it off with a talk about we're talking about the Legacy planning of the Pula family I think a lot of people were surprised you know Tim Graham started the whole thing with a tweet the other night about how you know Terry pugula was transferring a small percentage of stake in the team ownership stake in the team to his daughter Laura pugula and a lot of people went who what Laura Pula I don't know that lady see now for me for all the work that I've done and Chris has done and our guest frequent guest Ryan LEL is done the stadium situation you can probably get some kind of a nerd about the business of sports right like the inner workings the power structures the negotiations how money actually gets made in the NFL and for the Buffalo Bills is really interesting to me that's the stuff that I nerd out over because if you think about it that's typically what drives decisions farther on down the chain like scheduling or International expansion a lot of these things are impacted by how the League's economic model works so I follow the sports Business Journal and in September they posted an article about Laura Pula who is Terry's daughter from a previous marriage Kim's stepdaughter which I don't know if that's an important distinction or not time will tell I don't know I don't know what her relationship with the other siblings is like no idea that Laura pugula was going with her father and attending League meetings and learning more of the Sports business on the team's behalf as far back as September and he made a point that we've made on this podcast and that we've done other their shows about the idea that they've had kind of a tumultuous process right like the process of hiring for the Pula family they made a note that it hasn't gone well there's been a lot of turnover and so this is the first member of the Pula family to be brought in for more than just designing a hat or for hey we're going to pump a makeup line this was a member of the Pula family besides Kim being brought in to kind of start learning the ropes of the business and how the inner workings of the NFL operate now that role seems to have changed and grown over the course of the last year and it also seems Chris like she's more and more becoming a face of our team makes sense I mean she attended the owner meetings in February in Phoenix with her dad which is likely a precursor to all of this right like hey I'm famili I want you to get familiar with these people I want you to meet the other owners I want I want them to get to know you like not just you to get to know them and you to see how these meetings are run but also I want to be able to put you in front of them and have you talk to Steve biscotti have you have a conversation with Jerry Jones although hopefully that's from like 15 feet away yeah and Robert Craft Robert Craft wouldn't even be there he's down the street he's down the street getting a massage when you look at her jacket it makes a lot of sense right like her profile she has a background in project management in public relations she last worked for an Ecommerce and Drop Shipping Company called Ecom Evo now they worked in coffee and other do you think she's got a link in I already looked at it yeah no I already looked at it did Ean send it to you no CU I unfortunately have a LinkedIn and I just went and found it so the um in fact it's funny if you don't if you just Google it and you click on it it won't let you see it you have to be logged in and be looking at it from your own likely so that she can see everybody who's looking at hers which is kind of like does anybody think that that's creepy on LinkedIn like first of all LinkedIn feels like a pointless exercise anymore does anybody actually care do you have one yeah I have LinkedIn did you see what I put in our group chat and tagged Ean no on it I I'll have to pull it up so so like so you don't need so wait so you have one yeah yeah what do you use it for for this it's I don't have I don't have my actual job listed on it it's like we've gone through this before many of times you were the reason I don't put my actual job out on the internet in any form on social media profile that I have someone might come and try to get you cancelled it's hilarious uh I'm gonna assume that this is Doug again Doug rosi allegedly I hope when she takes over the team she hires Steven Sagal as head of security we were guys for those of you who showed up and watched the hashtag sports live stream that we did on Friday night first of all thank you for attending um we were busting Mario's balls about the idea that Mario Granada from hashtag Sports we were like you should be forced to attend at least one podcast with us where we don't address it at all but you show up dressed like Steven Seagal based on your stupid hair like you come in here in like a like a high collar kimono with sunglasses on even though we're inside and then you just talk really quietly and you don't we just don't address it we don't talk about it at all either way the woman has a business background okay and when you think about it that thing look at that ah yes I proposed to my girlfriend this weekend here's what it taught me about businessto business sales this is why LinkedIn sucks it's because it's a whole bunch of people trying to Hawk a bunch of nonsense and seem like they're smart about the thing that they do for a living I'm not going to lie if you're a dork enough like it's it's one thing to be good at what you do for a living it's another thing to have to try to tell people how good you are at what you do unless you're selling a product don't talk to me about your job don't speak to me about it unless I ask it's nonsense I hate it all and it's it's literally how all these cold colors with different like Financial products find you I hate it but either way I found his daughter on LinkedIn looked at her jacket she's got a pretty decent career in business which which is important because when you think about it what do her siblings know Jesse pugula made comments about you know what things might look like after her tennis career was over you know that was some of the first public commentary we got when Kim got sick and so it's hard when you hear her coming out and being like hey you know at a certain point when my career winds down I'm going to come back and I'll get more involved that I'll do more things but it wasn't really kind of a gray area as to what she would be more involved in but then you have to take a step back and go what does someone who's been groomed from childhood as a pro tennis player know about the business of the NFL like I'm not saying former athletes can't go on and do things but I guess the question would be how much are you going to trust a former pro athlete to step in and I don't know Chris do your job oh yeah did you trust Michael Jordan as a owner the own as the the sh was it Charlotte Bobcats is that what he owned I think they were The Wiz wizards no there Washington there's Washington Bullets and then Washington Wizards but then after he stopped playing he owned the Charlotte Bobcats wasn't he like owner player at one point can you Google this he was not he was not a reg Dunlop he was he I'm quite sure he was a minority owner in the Charlotte Bobcats and sucked at it well I mean he was bad as last year in basb G give that a goog I don't know why but I have this I have this thing of him being a player owner I I I don't know why I have that associated with Michael Jordan maybe I'm putting some uh smut on the man's name in which case I apologize but there you go I don't know about whether he was good in business or not he definitely got his dad killed that was the thing he definitely got his father killed so there's that I just think it would be hard to assume like you've watched ex players become GMS you that happens all the time in hockey Chris right yeah players go on to be GMS right now there's Chris Drury uh sack is the GM of Colorado theying the playoffs Mike Greer who used to play for Buffalo is with San Jose Drury is with uh the Rangers Kevin Adams right here in Buffalo uh and I'm sure that there's others got be others I don't know I don't think it's that farfetched of if everyone every GM had uh playing experience whether it was Semi-Pro or professional in the G in in the NFL John Elway was a GM in fact the buck Paxton Lynch yeah but he was also the guy who went out and got pton Manning so they kind of owe him a ring for that but he so Elway uh John Lynch over there in San Francisco there's been examples of that kind of like hey I'm a former athlete and I can I can work a a job in sports but usually it's within your own Sport and it's like hey I can evaluate talent as far as business goes it's a difficult Hall to know nothing about it and then step in and try to be involved at a high level and I mean you're you're seeing Terry poua take his lumps on that front right now he's 72 years old and as we've talked about he has not been able to identify good front office Talent outside of Shawn mcder and Brandon bean I don't know of a single hire that that man has made personally or been involved in that didn't result in him having to fire that person at a certain point it's not about not having good candidates it's about you not having an eye for talent this is what I'll say he's a man who using nothing but industry knowledge Savvy in a $7,500 loan built a fortune for himself 31 years ago 31 years ago he built the company that made him his wealth at after he sold it that ultimately allowed him to become the owner of the Buffalo Bills he's decades removed from having any real business involvement and that's a problem business moves at a different pace now right and based on his struggles that we've seen he just maybe this is kind of an acknowledgement of like hey we need to start moving in a certain direction because I might be more suited to be a figurehead than an actual nuts and bolts businessman which is fine totally fine Chris do you think Jerry Jones is actually the one over there shucking and driving and making the business of the Dallas Cowboys work I don't think so but I'm very confident he while on the premise of the Dallas Cowboys facilities he refers to him in himself in third person I picted your Jerry Jones being the type of guy who just walks around like he walks around his own house just like always kind of rubbing his hands together yeah I can see that it's like like doing a Mr Burns just involuntarily just like that's that's what I picture when I think of him I picture like it being like uh when nor McDonald did that sketch where he played Bob Dole on the real world and he just did himself in third like at the draft I could see him telling Mike McCarthy hey get up it's Jerry Jones's chair you don't sit in Jerry Jones's chair oh my God and it's funny too because you can go through the entire list of like owners and you could just take one look and just kind of make up personas for these guys and you'd probably be pretty close I don't know like but no one's more laughable than Jerry Jones and I don't think that pugula wants to be that at the same time I think there's probably a recognition that he can't be the guy running the ship for a whole lot longer I don't he's not quite Ralph Wilson at this point but he's maybe going to be relegated to that point in the in the future yeah also there is this this this concept of like what does the Legacy planning look like here you Kim was unfortunately after her what did they call it Aphasia she was deemed incompetent by by a court basically stating that she's not able to care for herself now there's obviously a lot of things that go into that in terms of that ruling means a lot in terms of the medical treatment she receives in terms of like what she's eligible for and just other things which is why you would pursue something like that or at least try to get that designation also what happens is though it means that you're no longer capable of executing certain duties one of which being the person who would take over the football team as his wife in the event something happens to Terry Pula now maybe this is top of mind for him because he's watched how quickly that happen happened yeah like one minute Kim pugula was growing into the face of at least you know pugula sports and entertainment and trying to be the face of the of the Buffalo Sabers and how quick that changed well when it comes to that then once you've seen it right like it's how Brandon Bean is out there signing what Dion Jones at linebacker today it's like wait a minute how many more old washed up linebackers do we need on this roster and then you step back and go well you know we did kind of run into a real Buzz saw of a situation last year at the end of the year and that was because we didn't have enough veteran linebackers on the team on the practice squad in training camp all season long getting familiarity with them we didn't have that so now they're making a concerted effort to never end up in that position again the same can be true for what's happening with these front office decisions and the ownership transfer is that they're trying to prevent here's something that like it sounds like a far-fetched thing until you see it up close and personal and you have to think to yourself that could be me any day well do I have the foundation laid so that this thing that makes my family wealthy can continue to churn if something were to happen to me and I too were to be incapacitated I think by transferring some of the ownership stake to her it puts her in line to assume those duties and I really do like the fact that they picked someone who's not just also set up to be a figurehead Like Jesse or son Michael you know an artist and a tennis player I don't know what you're capable of in terms of being an NFL owner the fact that his daughter's been in the building been doing the job spent some time on task been learning and networking with all of the relevant characters I think that's huge for our franchise and I think she I think everyone should be on on the lookout for her to become a more visible part of this franchise as we go on over the next two years and this Stadium project ramps up because Chris the thing already sounds like there's cost over runs there's complications they're running into let me ask you this is Laura married and if she is what does her husband do is he somehow get involved with this too dude nothing would be happier nothing would make me happier if her husband is just a dude in a pair of Chubbies and sandals laying on the couch all day just waiting for the pugula bucks to roll in imagine she married a complete slacker he goes out he hits 18 he comes home vacuums the house walks the dogs has dinner on the table or else he gets yelled at you know what that sounds like right what sounds like you just described Aaron Quinn that's a low blow I'm not going to sit here and let you put that smut on that man's name that's brutal I mean he has two kids that's a picnic no it's not my wife left me with two kids for like I like okay so what'll happen is my wife will be like hey I have to get out of work but this weekend we're busy and this is busy get I got to get my nails done at some point they're chipping and they're cracking and I go well I can't have you walking around looking like that notice I made it about myself go get your nails done don't worry I'll I'll pick up the kids I'll get them from daycare I'll get them home I'll give them dinner it's not the end of the world that 3-hour window man Chris I would love to see you pull it off I mean a four-year-old and a two-year-old I mean I do it with a nine-year-old how many times I got to tell you to turn off the lights come on you and cop and a half over there yeah I I love it I I'll go hey did you turn off the light in the bathroom yeah then like 20 minutes later I go to use a bathroom the lights on I like that he knows it's easier just to lie to you than to go do it he's like nothing's going to happen to me no it's it's it is funny but so here we are we're talking about the potential future owner of the Buffalo Bills and I think it makes a lot of sense I don't think it needs to be sensationalized I've seen the tweets those of you out there who are talking about Kim being dead you're kind of gross like that's stop that like let's let's not do that um it's it's more just about preparing I think that there's an acknowledgement that if if the duty were to somehow fall to her Kim Pula wouldn't be prepared it's already been ruled that way but now there's a person who spent a year and hopefully at the time a transition is necessary would have spent multiple years at the Helm of the team learning all of the ins and outs of the league and who the power players are and who she needs to have a relationship with what projects need management and kind of who the key shareholders for those projects are within and outside of the company I think it's the best thing for us and Chris to be honest Laura Pula being the future owner of the Buffalo Bills like I know that I saw somebody I saw a tweet today that just kind of made me cringe because it's like this is why everyone thinks we're cavemen it's like oh the bills you know gearing up for a what was it something about the bills being woke and gearing up for being woke with a female owner because you know it's got to be a female hash me too what else do you want you want the kid who designed hats to run the team no no let's let's this this this got me fired up this afternoon you want the kid who designed one of the ugliest hats in team history you want that guy running the football team we'd be out there on the field looking like the Phoenix Coyotes he would absolutely butcher those jerseys you guys talking about red helmets and throwback Unis he would absolutely destroy everything you love about this team so knock it off all right let's all take a deep breath Goose it's not that big a deal in fact if anything it's probably a really good good thing for the Buffalo Bills as is Greg Russo getting his fifth year option picked up now some of the guys who talk Non-Stop about this stuff have already written their articles they've conducted podcasts debating all you know debating what would happen to Greg rouso just because chronologically after the draft that's kind of where your attention is forced to be if you're one of those people who feels like they have to be at the at the Forefront of the news and at The Cutting Edge of everything which I mean I'm Chris I'm almost 40 with two kids I'm not at The Cutting Edge of anything I I I am a day late and a dollar short to everything I still won't use an iPhone I still refuse to get Apple products oh I'll I'll never ever use an iPhone it's because we're both if if it comes if if if Apple comes through and annihilates every other phone company and Apple phones are the only thing that exists we get J I just won't have a phone we get the elderly T bugs tell people listen this is the only way you can communicate with me I'm not doing this anymore we go Mel Kyper we we we get five landlines we we we revolutionize the game and bring back the landline that's what that's what we could do oh my God I forgot about that M his five landlines yeah you got to talk to his wife first oh God so I want to preface this with a tweet that 53 minutes ago Mr Aaron Quinn the aformentioned Aaron Quinn probably is he kicked back on the couch two children jumping on top of him tweets out fifth year option might be the most overhyped football talking point this off season it's not nearly as valuable as people want to believe it is I'd like to tell you he's wrong he's wrong for a couple reasons right so when he says it's overhyped it I guess it just depends on what it is you're trying to accomplish with the fifth year option right because there's this idea that like a fifth year option everyone's like well it doesn't cost the it's not that much cheaper than the tag okay first of all I never thought that it would come up for serious debate I I knew Greg rouso was going to get his option picked up and I'm happy to see it it's also the tag picking up the fifth year option in and of itself is Meaningful and here's why it's all about Runway that's where I want to start this whole conversation with picking it up whether or not you you personally right now here today May 2nd at 7:18 p.m. Eastern Standard Time believe that Greg rouso is worthy of a multi-year contract extension because you understand how much defensive ends make the concept of the fifth year option being picked up on him is incredibly important when it comes to the amount of time you have left to make that decision and here's why I say that for everybody like Aaron who's basically shits on the idea and says well it it doesn't matter it's not that much cheaper it is that much cheaper if you have to do it for more than one year so when you franchise tag a player Chris can you Google this for me what is the percentage increase from year one to year two of the franchise tag I want to know the exact number I already know it's larger but I just want to know what it is humor me when you tag a player who's set to be a free agent they have to either come to a contractual agreement or hold out or play that one year for that set amount of money that's fully guaranteed if you turn around and franchise tag them a second time like as they've negotiated these cbas The Players Association wants to make it punitive for teams to try to do that you know the Kirk Cousins scenario where you just keep getting tagged so Chris if we're doing this here let's see consecutive franchise tags are allowed unless it's a no franchise tag for any player tagged in two straight years the team must play pay 120% of the previous salary so there's a 20% increase year-over-year from the franchise tag cost to the to the year two tag cost and if it if you decide to do it a third time it's a 44% increase now if you've reached that point both you and the player know you don't want them there long term I don't know why I don't know how you would ever get to that I don't even know how many players have been tagged three times I think that that sounds like chaos yeah you want to know something else What doug texts me he's watching the show on his 98 inch TV in his polish garage his polish patio yes I love it Doug we love you and we miss you brother we miss you you'll have to come back in and do another one of these soon so if you have the fifth year option you can basically roll that on and then if at the end of that fifth year you still don't know you know you're still in this Dolphins to a tongue of aloa kind of a thing where I don't really know where I want to be and if I want to be at the high end the low end can we can we make a deal because we think you're worth something in the middle you think you're worth the high end of a contract and we just can't make it happen you can tag that player and the percentage increase from the number that you're paying on the fifth year option to the tag is not nearly a 20% jump that's the benefit there it is mechanically that is why the fifth year option matters it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to resign the player it just means that you've given yourself more time to make the decision and that's good for us because if you look at this for the Buffalo Bills right now we're going to need some time to put this room together it's unlikely that anybody if you look at who's available on the market right now Chris you want to bring up spot track's uh free agents tracker and then sort of for Edge if you look at the names that are over there available for Edge players there's very few of them left who seem like they're going to sign a deal that has any real term to it that's what they're Holding Out for it's what they're all angling for it's why they haven't signed but at the same time you can't sit here and tell me that either a we would have the appetite for that type of player or that we could afford it I mean Chris if we're looking at this you SC okay so amanuel ogba and Carl Lawson now those are two names who maybe could be had on short-term contracts if you really wanted to go multi-year with this yanak and G I mean he's 29 he's probably looking for one more deal so he can play out the last string and be done with this Jerry Hughes at 36 years old he's still floating around out there Chris would you want him back at this point Jerry Hughes no Dwayne Smoot like who is that he's not getting a multi-year deal no Carlos Watkins no like you go down the list sha Lawson still still out there he couldn't get a the bills multiple times let him go out there and try to find a multi-year deal and he couldn't get one I just don't see anybody on this free agency list remaining now they may go out and decide hey Carl Lawson we think he's going to take a he could take a short contract join us flesh out the depth and with some upside now that he's another year removed from that catastrophic injury maybe he can be more productive in the in our system versus what the Jets had and that kind of a thing but they would do it on a one-year basis they wouldn't do it on a threeyear four-year contract that would give us at least an idea of what the future of that room looks like and then you got to think about the with the inevitable departure of Von Miller maybe as soon as this season ends they're going to need somebody on the roster with starting experience somebody has to come in here we have AJ Esso who's been a rotational player and kind of at the back end of that he's been on the low end of the snap count what do they have Beyond Greg rouso and now a lot will change between here's another wrinkle A lot's going to change between now and the end of next next uh off season with the NCAA landscape but if you take a quick look just a quick look and I hate being this guy because Chris nothing makes me you think I hate mock drafts now the people go whoa whoa here's my way too early early 2025 mock draft yes it is too early someone should drive to your house and deflate the tires in your car you don't put that into The Ether like it's it's it's a waste of a click I'm not doing it spin 0481 if you can't figure out if a wide receiver is that guy or not in four years then there's more problems whether or not it should be a tag or a fifth year option for the player okay but defined that guy like to respond to your question what are you defining as that guy now when you're talking about defensive end it's a little bit different especially in a if you're talking about wide receiver yes sure it's wide receiver if you're not able to play the role that the team needs you to play depending on what they wanted from you yeah then it's time to go like yeah we need one more year cost controlled but it's still cheaper than the tag and then we let you go or if it's a player like traine Edmonds who you're just doing it because you don't want to have to tag him but at the same time you want that extra year and you kind of already see that you're not going to be able to retain him that's where you would go when we're talking about the defensive end position especially in MC's rotation heavy system we already have backup uh we got the rookie and Kingsley Jonathan was just as I can't see there's it was was just as good at at least approaching that level of lawon okay there you go so you've got a Lawson you've got a Kingsley Jonathan he also said two Hill is a younger version of Lawson sure so exactly you have Casey twohill you don't need sha Lawson so realistically if they go out there and swing for a defensive end now after the June 1st thing it's only going to be because there's a guy out there like a Carl law who you think you could get who you're like oh no we love where he is conditioning wise we worked him out we think that he fits our system better than New Yorks and we think in a one-year deal he could be an X Factor for us on some Sundays otherwise you don't do it and otherwise you stand Pat with what you have and you don't make any moves at the end but now what you've done is and that almost makes his fifth year extension more important because now you're saying I'm going to make sure that this guy stays in house for two more years instead of one before I have to make a decision on whether or not I need to franchise tag him because every year he's gotten a little bit better and this is where we get into just him but for those of you who are draft Nicks we'll just get a guy next year next year if you look at the draft rankings for 2025 it's like underclassman might might come out and surprise some people declare early but right now players are staying longer because of nil money there's only six players out of the 52 that are currently ranked by most draft Outlets that are list that are being talked about his potential first round picks and the bills aren't really in the running if you think the team is even going to be mediocre to sort of good which is what you'll be because you have Josh Allen we're not really in the running for those unless you're going to trade up for one which I don't think if the if the team wasn't going to trade up for a wide receiver in this off season they're not trading up for a pass rusher so with that said you've given yourself an inside track on monitoring the growth and watching defensive end who's done pretty well for your football team and could end up being the guy depending on the next few offseason shake out maybe one of the most veteran guys on your roster at the position so he's also just 24 and that's interesting because we just drafted guys older than Greg rouso the bills took so many senior team captain leaders in this last draft to the point that myself and Paul weski and Mario Granada from hashtag Sports were laughing about it like oh what which box did he check is he a team captain I've got him see that's why he's on their draft board team captain they wanted that guy F five year oh yep that's it Fifth year player they love that they like the fact that he's older Greg rouso is actually younger than some of the guys we just drafted as rookies so he's got so much football left in front of him which means you can get more Runway of his prime performances for your money if you're signing an extension eventually with Greg rousel I also believe that it does under this regime maybe not for every team but under this regime it does kind of pave the way to a second contract Trey White Josh Allen Ed Oliver Greg rousell taine Edmonds these are all players who had their fifth year options picked up Chaine Edmonds is the only one to not get a second contract and that was because Chris he signed the richest contract ever at his position I can't you can't do anything about that in a year when you have no cap space uh Shawn from Las Vegas her friend Shawn came to the tailgate big issues around the league uh when we had the co year yep so Russel wasn't he was off for like a whole year didn't play and then we drafted him and then he's got to get in back into form in football form and learn the uh NFL game there sure and you're seeing like he was a slow starter but his growth every season he gets a little bit better a little bit and his game is different right and I we're going to talk about that in a second but I really like this idea you know that that everybody who's gotten this picked up is at least being looked at for a second contract the only one we couldn't make happen is train Edmonds and that was because it happened to come in a year when we didn't have any cap space like I would be interested to know how many GMS across the NFL have this much success parlaying fifth year options into contract extensions without having to use the tag that's something I'd like to know so obviously this bod bodess well for rouso and his family and his agent that's and I mean you could argue that he deserves it and this is where we get into the numbers stylistically this is exactly what Shawn mcder depends on for his scheme you need big physical Edge Setters who can force tackles for loss and negative rushing plays while also being capable of harassing a passer first and second impresses on the team in 2022 and 2023 respectively with double- digit quarterback hits and the thing that makes him kind of fit the bills archetype is this thing that where where his his pass rush style isn't predicated on winning around the edge with speed that's not what Shawn McDermot wants in his defensive ends it's about crushing a pocket from the outside which might sound like the same idea but unlike someone who takes a bendy or a like a long looping pass rush to try to just burn the corner and turn in if you can crush the pocket with speed what you do is you end up eliminating some of the Escape Routes for a quarterback to get outside the pocket and extend to play with their legs like we watch Josh do to other teams every single week I see you laughing over there what's going on uh Maddie vo Drew you look like Big Lots and then uh our friend Joe also used to be known as Vero Delino Chris has a real Andy RoR to Drew's Conan thing going on except Drew's not a ginger or [Laughter] funny these these are all true these are all true statements I am not funny and then uh spin 0481 again with the uh de DN comments here like Von Miller who we paid yeah 20 Mill to yeah Von Miller will go down I think if he doesn't rebound this season it's going to go down as and you understand it wasn't by design it wasn't like it was a bad call the guy tore his ACL the problem is he tore his ACL at 30 almost my age if I tear my ACL Chris I'm not even podcasting anymore I'm done I'm finished I'm gonna go lay down on the floor in fact like if it happened tonight when I stand up out of this chair just call the horse doctor I'm finished I'm not doing anything we're we're done here the the real shame of it will be that he was having a monster year and then his knee exploded and that was maybe it and maybe that is the way it'll play out the mistake will be that older players with less runway for Recovery are more prone to having a catastrophic injury derail their career and it'll just be another one of those things of like man if that just didn't happen where would we be nobody will know it's just spin Von was earning his contract before he got hurt which which is true absolutely so with that said Greg rouso kind of stepped up in his absence I mean if you guys remember Greg rouso had a high ankle spray and came back from it in 2022 and actually got better everyone's like oh no he's going to be slow he's coming off an injury he actually posted the best eight weeks of his like his season down the stretch coming off that injury and without on and so he's learning but so my thing about the scheme is that what they want to do is they want to they want to prevent Escape Routes and then get in your face with their defensive tackles to create negative football plays and apparently the only people that doesn't work against are Patrick Mahomes and uh what's his name Joe burrow go figure on a team whose offense is been jacking Hy over the last two years you know Chris one week they can light up the Dolphins for 31 points and then they can go and do a game against the Giants and it's literally they're trying to Rock fight each other to find the end zone and I also have to get out of the truck yeah then you're getting thrown out of a vehicle in the middle of the night on what road was it I don't even remember I remember we were arguing over the name and I just pulled over I was like all right that's it get out Doug saved you that night sure I would have walked home I would have enjoyed it more than drive riding in a car with you that's for sure well I then what I like guys is we all went back to my house and sat in the like the bar in my basement and watched the end of the game and we didn't talk about it like it just wasn't discussed we were out of the car for at least an hour and a half in the same room together Chris never once brought up the fact of like what the hell you were going to leave me on the road we just all three of us just went on with our night yeah cuz that's what dudes do yeah it is so our offense is wildly inconsistent Greg rouso has been kind of the model of consistency right like only three well what is it two games in 2023 where he had no quarterback pressures just three with no quarterback hurries like he's he's not making the big splash he plays that are going to command him a multi multi multi-million dollar salary but he's really effective and then the thing I look at are the guys who were drafted around him look at this Chris Joe Tron heard of him remember everybody was mad that we didn't draft him or OA Tron didn't get his fifth year option picked up and when you look at their stats next to each other Tron had 105 pressures 13 sacks 71 hurries and a 21% missed tackle percentage rouso 12 27 pressures 19 sacks 84 hurries 11% Miss tackle percentage but a World's better run Defender Tryon they didn't even they were like we don't need you because you're you're useless OA was similar right and a better pass rusher by statistics than Russo but yeah there we go Russo o Joe Triumph pyton Turner went before Russo a part of me wonders if they wouldn't have made the move for pton Turner If he had fallen to him I mean we'll never know they kept saying that we had options to trade out but Greg was their guy I don't know spin what I do know spin with more comments he's all over the chat right now I think Groot is worth 10 to 15 million but if he can produce Sachs this year his price will go up 15 million plus and so this is where you bought yourself more time to figure out like cuz what you don't want to do is do what the Buffalo Sabers did with Matt uh with uh Drew Stafford I'll never forget this the guy has been kind of mediocre middling hockey player randomly in a in a in a a contract year has a 30g goal season and the Sabers sign him to a big contract and he never comes close to averaging that again I think he had over 20 yeah he had 20 the next year and then six yeah and then six and that is why you do not want to lock yourself into being a victim of okay he'll go into his final year and then he'll show out next year and then now we have to all of a sudden make a decision on a guy who we didn't think was Elite but just put up Elite numbers so what's what's real is he Elite or did he just have one good year now we don't have to worry about that because if he goes out there next year and builds off this last season continues to show that Arc of production turns 25 you still have him under control at a reasonable number and then you can start the negotiation process because now you've decided that you already kind of know where he's going to be in the hierarchy of defensive end salaries it's a it's a no lose move for the Buffalo Bills Russo outproduced Tron OA is interesting because he's only 65 like 240 lbs rouso is 67 to more than 270 he is the D end you need to make Shawn mcdermitt's system work so of course they would prioritize him over a away and I bet you if you put o in our scheme he would have struggled he would have been like a a less run Savvy Jerry Hughes which I don't know what that does for us as a football team in fact if anything it might have precipitated them having to spend more money on more high dollar free agents which would have cost us more the core of our football team so if and when he gets his deal it'll set an interesting precedent not just for him not just for the time being but also in Bill's team history because when I was prepping for the show guys I have to crack a fresh beer for this and I do love the fact that Chris knowing that Nate giri is going to be on with in just an hour or two with us to do our annual draft recap stocked the fridge with these mango peach kules which I generally think are disgusting like I'm scram Ling here to find monck so I'm they're in there there's monis in there so I'm at Wegman's today buying that and the two women at the that are like Manning the self checkout they point to the 12pack and they go are there any good I I wouldn't be caught dead drinking these and they both look at me like a like then why are you buying it because I I have friends within the podcast podcasting community that have the taste of somebody from North tananda I'm about to dip my toe into this water and I'm just ready for it to be disgusting God okay the Buffalo Bills defensive end history is what that beer tastes like in a glass like that's it holy get this out of here and absolutely not absolutely not I need whiskey the history of our team's defensive end room guys it if you were like bills your defensive ends woof it re it's like the book The Jungle by Upton Sinclair it's just riddled with tragedies a lot of Despair frustratingly avoidable mistakes I was like what tragic novel have I read that I can correlate this to it just leaves you with a bad taste in your mouth Sean from uh Las Vegas you drink one of those for breakfast with cold pizza that's it and then spin isn't that wasting beer just chug it and get it over with all right Sean for you or spin all right for you there you like a true champ oh does it taste more peach or mango it tastes like I licked your carpet it's awful it tastes like someone spilled something fruity on this rug and I'm licking it up that's what it tastes like all right the bills have only drafted chug weak chug well no cuz I can't chug this it's too just like the do you want it in a glass it's thin and it's bitter like on the back end it's still that genesy beer bitter that I can't I I can't get you can't chug this stuff it it you'd think with mango peach it would be sweet but it's not like the sweetness only lasts for a millisecond and it's just followed up by this really bitter thin beer that has almost no carbonation to it and then it has a really bitter aftertaste it all sucks it all it's all terrible everything about it stinks nine defensive Ender Edge players have been drafted by the Buffalo Bills since 2000 besides Russo four of them were granted contract extensions over that time span do you know who they are Chris just off the top of your since what year since 2000 turn of the century 24 years let's see I'm going to go because he's got a touchdown Ryan Denny that's on there up Brian Den I said Brian yeah Brian Den is an actor Ryan said Brian Ryan Denny okay Denny he doesn't matter you caught a you caught a [ __ ] touchdown pass from Mormon against the Seahawks I'll never forget that he he he acted he was on the sideline talking to the ref like you it was it was the play from The Longest Yard where like they fake like somebody has a helmet malfunction yeah he's over there talking to the ref as if they're just having a casual conversation nobody on the Seahawks is even looking at him and they snap the ball and [ __ ] just throws it to him now did you tell me since 2000 2000 I don't think John mcgo is not a part of that is he he's a defensive tackle okay I mean Edge players calling him a defensive tackle that's a we didn't extend him so Aaron uh Shel those are the only two I can think of Chris Kelce I remember him yeah and AJ Essa those well so those are the four now here's what's funny Shel and Kelsey played their entire careers in Buffalo Kelsey actually played more games than Shel by almost an entire season Ryan Denny in 113 games he only started 30 31 times like that's it he he once had six sacks in one season with zero starts that's insane uh Vero Delino guys who secretly love Seagrams escapes thumbing their noses at a beer is wild though exactly then think about how B look at this I have a serum's right here I would drink this before I I would drink this before I drink that unfortunately I'm saving that for later that's going to be for tonight's podcast with Nate so of the guys that didn't see a second contract oh my God Eric flowers was a first round pick who only played for our team for two seasons he had five career sacks across three different teams he has onethird of AJ ess's career production tell me Eric flowers might not be the biggest bust in Bill's history I do remember that we were talking about this years ago on a show and you thought I was talking about Eric flowers The Tackle yes and you did not know that Eric flowers the defensive end existed kind of in the same light that you thought Steve Tasker was a linebacker still is best linebacker of all time Chris Ellis was a third rounder who was only in the NFL for 15 games across three seasons I'm not even talking on a roster like just not like oh he was only a Buffalo Bill for in the NFL for 15 games we drafted him in the third round spin again Maan but he was listed as a linebacker right no no no Aaron mabin drafted a one pick ahead of Brian arpo I derailed an entire house party over this you it's still egregious he went on like AR po goes on to have a really productive career for Tennessee Aaron mabin finished his career with one more sack than Eric flowers Shaq Lawson wasn't a bust I mean he's still NFL adjacent in the NFL a journeyman as they would call it Buffalo tried to retain him right like you'll remember that yeah yeah and then he went to Miami he had a career year his final year in Shawn mcder system took more money bet on himself and rapidly found his way into the NFL veteran minimum Club look at him out there now in the free agent Market just hoping someone throws him a Millie what are we what are we as a franchise doing when it comes to that position we don't draft it well he just don't like Bruce Smith Chris that's the last good one I mean he was first overall first overall so do we have to be that bad again to get a good pass rusher on this team uh I don't somebody in the chat might know this I'll have to look it up I could also bring up Phil Hansen he was pretty good Bill Hansen he was good in in relief of Bruce Smith when he was injured and then I don't even I mean I'm like N9 years old at the time so I don't even know if they're playing opposite sides of each other and just collapsing Pockets but I'm pretty sure uh Phil Hansen was was not bad gotta chase I've never had to chase a beer with whiskey before that's ridiculous this thing sucks I want to close it with this the team has drafted and extended one single productive Edge starter in the last 24 years and that's Aaron Shel you guys remember Aaron Shel he will go down in history as the guy with the most individual sacks by one player on Tom Brady of all time he was a patriot killer he just had great games when it came to them Aaron schel was a Hos and yet he doesn't get a whole lot of respect like I don't see people wearing like I see people wearing Thurman jerseys I see PE obviously that makes sense I see the Reed jerseys I see molds jerseys I have a uh you know I've got a uh you know I've got a D Darius Jersey why aren't there more Aaron Shel jerseys still being worn around Buffalo I don't know he's one of the he didn't play for that long I have his stats up up on the he he had he his last season he played all 16 games and had 10 sacks and then he retired and then he retired like he he hadn't had double digit Zacks in three years and then just randomly it was probably like I'm not getting into the playoffs anytime soon going into the 2010s [ __ ] this I'm reti are you saying we killed Aaron Shel 100% damn it well I'll tell you what as true as that might be at the end of the day Aaron schoel is the last truly productive defensive end that we've drafted that you can even try to comp to Greg rousel we kept we would have continued Chris if Aaron Shel wanted to keep playing we would have let him yeah we're going to do the same with Greg rousel I guarantee you he's getting a contract extension it's just a matter of when and how much and how they can work it I think the Stefan digs trade was one of these things of Paving the way to Future cap solvency so that you can make these decisions so that if you decide Spencer Brown's the guy you can keep them if you said Greg rouso is the guy you can keep him because guess what they're all under the age of 30 and he's not it's it's time it's time to start turning it over and while you can argue and some of you will feel free to let me know in the comments although I'm not going to read them Chris will yeah let me know what you think tweet at us reach out how Rockpile report on Twitter let me know what you think about Russo going forward not just not what you've seen but what you think because it's it's going to tell me you did a little bit of research it's going to tell me that you looked at the curve saw the Ascension and go hey I I think that this is sustainable where do you think he's going to fall in terms of that hierarchy because we've already talked about how for our own team there is no comp like you're either a 10 sack a year guy that we drafted or you're garbage so he's somewhere in the middle in the in terms of NFL production where do you think he can be what kind of contract do you think he deserves I think that's it but I like the fact that we get an extra year to have to figure that out I don't know about you Chris I like options don't you I do and I would prefer because we did it with uh Sabers adjacent Tage Thompson put out you know 30 plus goals and then we gave him the contract which I think outside of this year because there was an injury he's been living up to it so I would get Groot that extension in as soon as possible because like spin said in the comments if he's getting like 10 to 15 sacks his price is going up sure so get get him now get him signed now while the price is lower guys first of all awful beer Chris I not the one in your hand no no I needed I needed a Moni to wash the taste out of my mouth great night of podcasting thank you for everybody who tuned in live thank you for the comments thank you for give you guys added to the conversation I like doing this I'm happy we finally found a vehicle for it we finally have the technology to pull it off inside of In-House running multicam kudos to you Chris dude raise a glass ra raise raise your my glass is empty but uh I'll drink TOA we're gonna be live next week with Anthony perasa from cover one when the schedule gets uh released so we're going to we're going to go through go through that next week with Prasco allegedly unless he cancels who knows it's been fun but we got to get out of here I'm Drew gear that's Chris Krueger and this has been your rock pal report live thanks for showing up