Welcome Back - my friends to the show that never ends... Presidential Debate • Eating Pets • CBC

[Music] [Music] n [Music] good morning everyone good morning good morning good morning good morning welcome to uh another fine it'll be Wednesday morning for you guys it's Tuesday morning for me as you can see by the time stamp in the bottom corner um but welcome to another fine Wednesday morning here in the city of Philadelphia welcome to another coffee break chat I'm your host James Jackson he they pronouns executive producer light Thief Productions we've got a great show for you today uh welcome back from Hiatus we took a little Hiatus over the summer here um lots of news happened anyway uh didn't really get to report on it there was nothing that extremely urgent for local folks um and you know so you know there's a little weather there was a little news it wasn't that big a deal um so we didn't really go live but we've got uh guests here this week uh We've Got The Fringe coming up um and ongoing uh here in Philadelphia so we've got folks that want to talk about the Arts in Philadelphia um we're also going to talk uh presidential debate eating pets uh the Congressional Black Caucus on diversity equity and inclusion the uh mvpc uh conditions and Russian spy influencers uh but first we're going to talk to Casey stepen and Nicole from the tire swing and let me just bring them up on screen here welcome good morning everyone um if we could all introduce ourselves our pronouns what it is we do excuse me and you guys can stay off mute um and uh yeah uh uh just let's let's go from uh left to right here so we'll start with Casey if you could please introduce yourself and uh go from there yeah hi good morning um my name is Casey gerin I she they pronouns and I'm here because I'm the artistic director of the circus Opera Company that's doing the tire swing for Fringe and I also play girl in the tire swing awesome cool hey everybody I'm Steve Keno um he him pronouns I'm the music director of the circus Opera Company um I compose the music for the tire swing and I'm also playing the piano for the show awesome good morning I'm Nicole Rena she her pronouns and I have the very good fortune to be performing in the tire swing in the role of woman awesome um relatively uh sparse character names there uh what is the tire swing about what why why are the why are we uh with these character names that are uh descriptions rather than uh names yeah so the tire swing is about a woman who um goes back to her childhood backyard after many many years and she um kind of she reconnects with her childhood self her eight-year-old self who kind of takes her on a journey through their backyard and helps her to rekindle her childlike joy that she um you know has kind of felt like she's lost over the years with becoming an adult awesome um and what why I I often ask this question and it it it may seem silly but uh why uh this piece why this why now yeah Steve do you want to take that one yeah sure um yeah I mean I think that uh you know I think about this from you know you try and write things that you that you know in in some way right and um I think we all work as teaching artists in different respects and um we both have this opportunity of seeing um young students who are finding joy in music for maybe the first time in their life and helping cultivate that joy and then simultaneously we all teach adults who are often coming back to music and rekindling that Joy something that they've kind of stepped away from and we've seen that impact um on their lives and so I I think think um while this was not at the Forefront of my mind when writing the piece I felt that you know looking back I think this is something um kind of makes sense for why I felt this was so important to talk about right now is something that um you know I think we've all are experiencing in our own lives as teaching artists and how important it is to reconnect um with that that type of joy in one's life um I think often times our society uh tells adult that that is not really a viable option and part of like maturing and becoming an adult is almost relinquishing some of those um past joys in certain ways um so you know we're all in our you know uh either early 30s late 20s and so I think that this um that's a theme that also you know resonates as where of entering adulthood and everything as well um as the music director what how do you bring those points to the audience through music what what what what's your your tactic there for you know getting people to resonate with the the message you're trying to uh present sure sure so something that and this I think really circles back to the general mission of the circus Opera company which is we are really interested in synthesizing classical music and Opera with uh Dynamic circus arts and so one of the things that we really wanted to with this show was create a story and um and build build a story really where Circus and music were very were linked you couldn't really separate the two things um so in the story to help answer that question um you know there are musical motifs and things that I bring back throughout the show um our wonderful leus Laurel Anderson um included all these um these hos to between the characters as the show um as the show progresses these hos take on different meanings and um there's a great uh there's a great line in the in the libretto um uh or characterization of the first hos which is um it's like shaking off like a a rusty phrase and I love that that idea of like it's something that the character is is familiar with but hasn't done in a while and through the course of the show kind of learns how she used to do that and gets to share that with her childhood self at the end um so I think that's musically one way that that actually happens um simultaneously though through the show the character relearns how to do um circus in a way that makes sense for her adult self and so something that we thought was important with the show is that it's it's about reconnecting with that Joy but not um but embracing the fact that you are an adult and that you're a different person and and have new experience um and so we wanted the characters to really we wanted the the adult character to learn how to do circus again but on her own terms um and so the kind of the climax of the show is her finally getting back on the lra which is the tire swing in the show um and doing some Dynamic Circus For the First Time In many years and finding that joy and that is uh coupled with her singing those H from the beginning in a very new way so these two elements of circus and music really synthesize to capture this sense of finding this um Early Childhood Joy again and Nicole that's your character yes so I learned some circus to be able to do this I I I would hope so um so what what of your uh adulthood your uh transition from childhood into adulthood uh if anything did uh this bring back for you like exploring this character what were you able to find um from your childhood that that you know was something perhaps that you'd lost or or were able to reconnect with a lot of things um I was always a little artsy kid and and I think yeah I was always a little artsy kid and I I tried Sports I tried athletic Endeavors when I was little um but I would get comments like you run kind of fun or you don't you're not very strong um I used to do gymnastics when I was really little but I was not naturally very strong and I felt kind of discouraged and I don't know a little bit like uncomfortable in my body and so in a really uh real way this show has been very healing for me to have learned this new physical skill something that I never ever would have imagined that I could do um and so it's you know woman in the show is returning to something that she loved as a child and real life Nicole is um maybe envisioning for herself things that she could still do that maybe she never even imagined that she could when she was little awesome um so for me uh you know like I I've recently reconnected with like sailing and being on the water um even though those things have always been part of my life that they' they've Recon you know know I've reconnected with them in in a in a meaningful way lately um and what that you know like makes me think of is you know kind of I ironically the the pandemic shutdowns kind of gave us uh a lot of us a chance to reconnect with things that we really hadn't had time for um kind of the rebuilding of of uh you know uh not Society so much as as as just our social expectations of each other um you know to show up in person places or not um when it's important to you know like uh go out versus when it's not um and taking more time for ourselves um are do these things in any way play into how you guys have been experiencing producing this yeah I mean I think that a major thing that happened for me during the pandemic that was kind of a an an Awakening was uh at the time at the beginning of covid I was pardon me I was living in Manhattan and auditioning fulltime pretty much doing the early morning rise grind down to Midtown and uh and I you know when all of that stopped I was like oh is this for me you know um and it you know it caused me to really ask myself what what do I want to be doing like what shows what type of art do I want to be creating do I want to be auditioning for people and waiting for them to give me a job um or you know do I want to be writing do I want to create my own stuff what kind of stories do I want to tell and create and um and hon hly that was a big Catalyst to starting the circus Opera Company um you know when things started opening back up again a little bit in 2022 I went to Circus school in Chicago which was something that I had wanted to do for a long time and um because I sat at home in 2020 thinking like okay when this you know when it's time I'm going to go back and do this thing and um and in Cho Steve and I came up with this idea for the circus offer company and just kind of decided like Okay We're not gonna wait around for people to give cast us and or cast me and um you know to tell other stories like we want to create stories that we're really passionate about and put them on ourselves and um and I don't think that that I don't know if I would have had that same Awakening had I not had some much time during the pandemic to really think about that and reflect on that um what uh what would you say your the the people you want to speak to most with this piece are who who is who is the person you're trying to get this message across to yeah Steve go ahead yeah um you know I think that you know something that's a question I'm always thinking about when I write a piece of music um especially theatrical pieces and when you're creating characters and everything um and for this piece I think that it was very important for there to be space to meet different people where they are with this with this piece I think that for some folks um a very direct kind of conversation with like your childhood self um might be what they need at that moment and and that's something they can kind of handle at the time I think other people just having a gentle reminder of like hey you used to love to you know ride your bike why don't you do that again you know um so I think I'm I personally like to keep the messaging a little bit more Broad and um not vague but I think open so that folks uh so that more folks can know can make what they need from it you know I I I don't want to um kind of push people into like this is the you know this is the moment we're trying to have right now and you need to have it with us exactly this way um I think that uh everybody lives such different lives and at such different moments in their lives um so I rather create something that is inherently a space for people to um step into as much as or little as they would would like yeah actually I'd like to add a little bit onto that I think something that is really brilliant in the way that Laurel wrote this labretto is that um these characters feel really really rich and full and yet at the same time we get absolutely no biographical information about them um the only thing that we know about woman and girl is that they have a dad that's really it and so I think um yeah it's it's been interesting talking to friends and family who have come to see the show um the the thing that has really surprised me is that the Boomer men in my family have shown me the biggest emotional response to this um which is not what I would have expected seeing a show where it's centering around a woman meeting her girl self um I do think that these characters can just be looked at as proxies for the audience we're like an open vessel for them to fill in with their own experiences um yeah just a second to that um you know one of the things that uh that that Casey suggested we do to kind of prep this show as folks are coming into the audience is that they so basically we're in a backyard right so there's trees around us and everything so each person um in the audience takes a cutout Lea and writes a note to their eight-year-old self and I think again like that can be as simple or profound as it needs to be for that person you know and I think that again it just it sets up the it sets up the the necessary relationship between an adult and their childhood self that that person wants to you know engage with for the day you know I think I'm it's been really great to see yeah the response from folks who we weren't expect necessarily expecting that was you know like our target audience or anything like that and it's just really interesting to see you know um yeah how people are responding to it and what it's rekindling um any um uh uh from your from what you're saying um you know like you you've had audiences any Revelations uh like that uh you can say anecdotally about you know like surprising um stories you know you alluded to Boomer men like any specific like you know like this is what the this one person said to me um that was a a complete surprise as a reaction to the performance sure I think um so a relative of mine had shared that he has retired from work um and he's been trying to figure out like what does life look like after retirement and he has returned to doing things like riding his bike um going to hockey games things that he really enjoyed when he was a kid and it has brought a lot of Joy back into his life and so watching this story made him reflect on maybe is there more that he could do more that he could explore to bring a little bit of that childlike Wonder back into the everyday I think something that oh sorry no go ahead go ahead um no something that surprised me maybe not surprised but was nice to hear was that one of my students who is probably around eight years old came to see the show and it's not you know it's not a show for kids but it's not not for kids it's not inappropriate you know it's it's wonderfully appropriate but um she shared that she felt really she was like I feel like the girl and to me that was great because I think we kept thinking when we were creating this story about you know how this was affecting the woman and as adults ourselves you know we're definitely relating more to that woman Nicole and I cried through many rehearsals in a very cathartic way um and so it was really nice to see that you know one of my students who's eight or nine years old was felt very seen and excited and um about that girl character um yeah I just I it felt rewarding in a way I guess um so what might be a um a kind of difficult question but also by way of segueing into current thoughts um a lot of people you know um in modern media in uh just you know political debate uh Society in general uh kind of look at the the past through this kind of rose-colored glasses sort of uh way of um you know that there is an idealized past how do you um how do you do you do any separation of an idealized past with the realities of the past in this show or is it is it more just about trying to connect with the the ideal parts of of your past yeah I would I would say that it definitely um I and I totally agree I mean Nostalgia is a double-edged sword you know what I mean that it can you know folks can um can honestly weaponize Nostalgia as as you know and so um and I feel for this show it this show I don't I don't think really engages with that conversation which I think is its own really interesting conversation somebody should do I think multiple pieces could be done about that topic Alone um I think that in this case there was a certain I think we're implying a certain emotional truth about what this character resonated with as a kid um and so I think that that you know and Nicole and Casey you know um correct me if I'm wrong if you feel differently about this but I think that that uh think is embedded in kind of the premise of the show is that to the to the woman character this this just feels true that you know playing on the tire swing was just something that that brought her joy and I think that in in a certain way instead of kind of unpacking the like the past it's more confronting the reality of the present which is that she's not an 8-year-old girl that she's you know maybe in her early 30s something and that doing or you know and honestly the age could range I think that's something we've talked about as exactly what age she is you know um but regardless she's a character who doesn't have the ability to do circus like an eight-year-old can or that you know and so um it's confronting that reality and despite it still choosing to find joy and meaning and uh through this activity um while yeah acknowledging time has passed um uh so rough segue into into uh modern topics um the so the that is a a a current you know thing happening in political debates all all over the country you know I I think there are some artistic pieces that kind of talk to this you know like um what you know like what are uh immutable truths or you know what what is just you know our perspective on what happened in the past versus what is the actual you know history of whether it be the country or uh you know the the town you live in or you know your socioeconomic status even um you know very famously here in Philadelphia we have like South Philly and and Kensington both of which you know uh are um have a lot of uh relationship to the past and Nostalgia and uh people looking at them uh and the current conditions and wondering why they quote unquote changed um or you know like in in the National debate there's there's a lot of people wondering why the country changed or is changing or resisting change or progress or what have you I don't necessarily think that you know like that's a a valid position so much as a as a a personal position for those folks I don't think that that's a universal truth or an accuracy uh of looking into the past um I think that when we all look into the past we can only apply what we know of it um and that that tends to you know give a little bit of the rose-colored glasses um but uh all that being said um we're you know like we still as a society do things to improve uh what other people uh growing up now will experience as their past when they look at it and hopefully providing uh that idealized version for them um one of the things that we've been doing for a number of years is uh diversity equity and inclusion um initiatives uh the Congressional Black caucus recently did a study of uh Dei initiatives and issued new guidelines for Dei policies uh and uh the the big biggest uh element of these gu new guidelines is that uh fortune5 companies should be using uh diversity equity and inclusion to uh reduce the the racial wealth Gap um and to include uh minorities in uh the the economic prosperity of the United States um one of the key you know things that that uh a lot of folks um point to um in uh in political debate is this kind of um uh worry that uh folks are you know experiencing quot quote economic anxiety I don't know whether it's economic anxiety so much as uh just uh looking again at the the past through Rosy glasses and thinking uh that there uh isn't uh opportunity if it opportuni is be being given to somebody else that the that they shouldn't have it because that opportunity won't exist for them anymore um as a a small Theater Company uh I'm sure you guys you know do funding uh try and get Garner audience that kind of thing um and one of the big debates that I've always had in in this realm in the in Philadelphia specifically is that I don't think that this is a a finite Market um you know like what's been your experience in building this company um trying to you know get more audience trying to get funding um is it is it something that in your experience if if somebody is coming in they're they're taking money from the people that are there already or is it uh your experience that the more you you you do the more there is that's a great question um to be honest as a company this is our first like production that we are producing we've done Steve and I have done some smaller things over the last year but um this the tire swing really is launching the us as a company so we are very new to fundraising we're very new to um all of that uh but we people have been very kind to us I mean in a in a startup Type of Way um and I think that so far and like I said it's really only been one thing but we had a fundraiser concert and then we recently um gained sponsorship through fractured Atlas um people who are supporting other companies have supported us and I think Philadelphia is a pretty supportive City I think you know it's tough as an artist because as an artist who you know we don't make a ton of money you want to support compan ianes that you believe in um I certainly do but you know we have had patrons of other companies in town go oh I saw you in you know the ardans production of this or I saw you INF Fringe last year when you worked for this other company and I want to support you because I believe in what you're doing um and I think that philadelphians have that type of character for the most part yeah yeah if I could add too I think you you said a phrase and I might be uh crappy if I misquoting but it was like the more there the more you do the more there is or something like that that's that's how I usually phrase it yeah I the the more in in I'm biased in this conversation obviously you know like I come from a particular perspective but uh as a small company myself you know like I I always think of it as the more the more there is to do the more there is that gets invested in that particular type of thing you know the more Arts there are the More arts organizations there are the more money comes to our sector it's not it's you know it's it's not a one for one but you know uh go ahead sorry yeah no I mean I I I totally agree I mean I think that one of the things that I think inspired this company was um you know Casey and I discussed is we just kind of feel that this is a meaningful intersection of different disciplines and that inter interdisciplinary collaboration um and we feel that there's an yeah that there is you know by making this exist um it creates more space for more types of pieces and Theater Company like it just creates a we're trying to like open up a new space of interdisciplinary collaboration that you know I I'm really excited to see what else is possible with that particular intersection um so yeah so I I agree I feel like the more that you like put things into the world and create new spaces the you know there's a ripple effect to that and it becomes this kind of ever expanding circle of new ideas um so yeah I I completely agree and it's I think in it's underneath of what I think the circus oper compan is trying to do is is you know find a new space um Nicole I I you're a per performer so obviously this is you know like uh we're we're all expressing things uh as company Founders and owners um as a performer what's been your experience with like you know the the um ecosystem of the Arts in Philadelphia yeah um well so actually I am a founder of a different company um but we're not here to talk about them but I have some some experience of um of of that that idea of trying to gain funding and support from other people and I I can Echo um what Steve and Casey have said that Philadelphia is a great place to make art um you might not always get rich from doing it here on these smaller scales but um but I I can only say that I agree that the more art there is the better um and then the more funding there will be for the art as a performer I think that um something that I have worked to uh shake off of myself is this mindset that we can sometimes adopt in school in our train programs that there's scarcity that if that soprano over there is getting an opportunity that I'm not getting an opportunity and that she must be my competition rather than my collaborator um and so I have strived in the types of works that I have created myself um that if I'm in the room I want another let's just say soprano in the room with me um which is why it's been so wonderful to work with Casey um that's an interesting it's an interesting point um and I don't think a lot of people think about it uh I interestingly you know like having gone through uh some elements of art school and you know performance I think everything in our in our training uh as performers when we train performers it's it it's creating a comp competitive environment uh which then I probably also contributes to the lack of understanding of a collaborative environment in in uh Arts Founders because disproportionately Arts Founders are trained as performers so um interesting interesting uh that you bring that in there um I wonder um if maybe we should approach uh you know uh artist training from a different perspective you know like a lot of things that we do as artists in any medium um very competition based you know like uh seeking Awards or um submitting work for shows or submitting work for uh you know uh just uh just criticism even uh seems to be com competitive based competition based where we're training us ourselves as artists to think of other people in the Arts as com competitors um yeah so very interesting um I don't feel free to uh if anybody has any thoughts along those lines yeah I was going to say I think like I think the traditional uh training route definitely is thinking of each other as competition rather yeah competitors rather than collaborators but I do feel like as a city Philly is moving into this um I mean other cities are doing this too but I feel like there's something very really about a collaborate like a collaborative art project and I mean we have programs like the pig iron program that is a a master's degree in devised theater and it's all about collaboration and um I think that collaboration leads to just cooler art I mean and more interdisciplinary stuff when you get people bringing their ideas and their expertise into a into a project I think um it just makes it better in a lot of ways um so I mean and that's kind of been our process with the tire swing a little bit we didn't have a director uh like a a stage director and I think Nicole Steve and I have all kind of devised the the blocking and the the flow of it ourselves um together which has been really rewarding awesome um so yeah I I tend to go off topic every once in a while like that I apologize um it it I just uh it's an interesting uh uh line of uh things that that are happening in the Arts um you mentioned Chicago and uh New York um why Philadelphia now yeah I um so I went to Temple for undergrad um well only undergrad I don't have a master's degree but I went to Temple and then uh I uh I moved to New York to do the actor thing uh after school and uh I was there for about four years and um I was lukewarm about it to be totally honest I just the whole time I lived in New York I missed Philly and I talked about moving back to Philly the whole time I was there my friends were like just do it um so I did I moved back to Philly um and I just love it here I I went to Chicago for circus school because that was the the program I really loved um it was a a I went for summer of 2022 to the actor gymnasium which is uh a circus training program out in Chicago that uh specifically works with actors so it's not a a full-time like ye you know several year training program the way that circadium is in Philadelphia which is an amazing circus school but they're three years long and uh it's full-time and at this point in my life I didn't feel like I I had that in me um I wanted to do a shorter program that was just like an intensive um and to kind of figure out how I wanted to incorporate circus into my art as an actor and a singer and I felt like the actors iium was the perfect place for that um so I went out to Chicago and then uh but but I you know I was based here at the time I was just out for that part awesome um what what led uh what led you other the um what led you Stephen and and Nicole to Philadelphia as well sure so I um so I grew up in uh South Jersey so um pretty close to Philly both my parents commuted into Philly to work um at some point in their in their careers um so I've you know Philadelphia has always been kind of the city I go to and I I'm like if I'm going to the city that city is Philadelphia um yeah so um but I also went to Temple University I actually teach at Temple at Temple University now and um uh I spent some time in Baltimore for a number of years for a graduate with school and everything and as much as I loved Baltimore I just I always knew Philly was my home um and so uh after four or five great years in Baltimore was excited to transition back to Philly and um yeah you know it's just that's what it's been ever since I I just I love Philly um to me it is just the it's the right Siz City it is it is all it is a big city but it also has nooks and crannies and places to explore and has um you know you you actually can know your neighbors and it feels close so I love that too I also grew up in South Jersey um I'm from the pine Barons um representing the Jersey Devil um so I I I was making a decision when I was going to graduate school I almost went to Baltimore Steve and almost went to Peabody but Temple offered me more money um so I moved to Philadelphia I met my husband uh the first year that I moved to Philadelphia and here I am um one of the so we're while we're talking about you know Phil Philadelphia and its inclusive nature um I'd like to talk a little bit about the fact that we are still you know uh by law uh by uh mayoral decree uh a sanctuary City uh for immigrants um we um and we kind of uh suffer at the hands of national politics for that designation um um we get um buses and planes of immigrants sent to the city of Philadelphia on a regular basis um not that that not that that's entirely suffering I I should say suffering because uh people outside of Philadelphia consider that some sort of gotcha on us being a a uh uh a sanctuary City that oh you you you're a sanctuary City for immigrants well how do you like it when we send you immigrants and we're like yeah we like it fine it's great uh sure we can help folks out although I really do wish you would stop sending us immigrants not because I don't want the immigrants here but because they don't necessarily want to be here um so quit fooling people into thinking they're coming into some sort of situation where you know they'll have every resource available available to them that isn't available to anybody else um or that isn't literally available literally anywhere uh instead you know inform them of the Realties that you know like this is a place you can go um and get services and you you're not going to be deported instantaneously um even though we do have problems with uh immigration enforcement here in the city um we're you know like if the Phil if you have to interact with Philadelphia Police Department they not going to report you to Immigration and Customs Enforcement or report your identity to the the federal authorities uh just because you happen to interact with uh the local police department um which I think is is uh a pretty valuable um a valuable thing uh regardless of whether you're uh an immigrant uh by choice or because you're seeking Asylum or um you know regardless of what your status is on your immigration you uh need to be able to interact with the society at large otherwise it creates ghettos and um sub subcultures and Subs societies that tend to take care of themselves which is um as we've talked about on this show many times part of the problem with uh the you know like why uh the black community has a lot of violence uh associated with it is because you know the black community Los faith in the system and therefore creates its own systems um uh which is something that you know other communities don't have to do uh because they can uh trust the police force not to report them to immigrations and customs of uh or trying get them out of the city um or try and Export them from the city um so uh one of the one of the uh one of the many things associated with this is currently there's a a uh right-wing Le uh weird claim that in Springfield Ohio immigrants have taken over uh the City of Springfield Ohio um murmur of everything from uh the Springfield Ohio Town Hall being uh uh protested by over 20,000 uh Haitian migrants um uh people depleting government resources people's uh the the number of people coming to Springfield Ohio straining their hospitals and schools um and here's where it gets really weird and obvious that this is just uh racist sentiment reportedly eating random birds and pets uh this list uh that I just read off was uh tweeted out by representative Jim Jordan uh a republican in Congress um I personally I think this should disqualify you from holding office if you're willing to just like spout off idiocy like like this um like when you get to the line that says reportedly eating random birds and pets all right my my alarm Bells go off uh uh you know like I mean you know and forgive me you know if anybody else's alarm Bells don't go off feel free to let me know I I I my alarm Bells go off and I go okay nobody actually eats random birds and pets like that's just not something that happens um you know uh and and growing up uh part partly Asian you know I faced the the rumors and and racist sayings of you know uh Asians eat cats uh and dogs throughout my my upbringing so uh maybe that's why it's so quick to go off um but you know like then vice president presidential candidate JD Vance uh tweeted a followup to this uh where he's test T ifying in Congress that months ago he issued raised the issue of Haitian illegal immigrants draining social services and generally causing chaos All Over Springfield Ohio um and then literally saying reports now show that people have had their pets abducted and eaten by people who shouldn't be in this country um the last line gives away why he's saying all this where is our borders are um our vice president our current vice president Cala Harris and uh candidate for president Cala Harris is the Border Zar uh per uh uh uh President Biden um and so that's that's their their their current tack at attacking Camala Harris because there's really not much in uh uh candidate Harris's history that they actually disagree with they they like that she was a prosecutor prosecuted crime she actually did a lot of uh immigration enforcement uh in in her time as prosecutor they did a lot of she did a a lot of things that Republicans actually like um so this this weird wild very racist to me a very obviously racist thing uh came up in in the National debate recently how how do we how do normal people artists how do we create a a narrative how do we talk uh to the general population how do we affect this debate and bring it back from the brink of just complete morud to like something that we should actually be talking about well I would say I mean there's there's so much to unpack in that story and um so much to unpack I there is um and you know I think that there's uh like many complicated large problems you know it requires a multitude of different people you know uh affecting change in their spheres you know um I think that from the perspective of of artists I think you know when you have headlines like this and you have a um you know I would say a media culture like this I don't think that this is an isolated incident unfortunately I think that um you know throughout different election campaigns we've had all kinds of crazy claims that have clear racial undertones to them and all kinds of things like this yeah don't don't get me started an Obama's birth certificate I could go on for right Obama's birth ceric there was some conspiracy theory that he was a lizard or something like I mean we could do this for hours right um and so you know I think that to me instead of going into each you know each moment of that and picking apart obvious like the obvious criticisms that those things deserve um to be hurled at them um I think looking at the larger media culture and saying this to me is why we need art is to help create and create voices of of different perspectives of uh creating empathy of humanizing people giving people a chance to tell their stories on their terms um you know I think that uh it is one aspect of a large societal change necessary to combat things like this but I think yeah from the perspective of of what artists can do you know tell stories lift up other folks who are telling stories that need to be heard um you know and hopefully that uh begins to change the collective Consciousness you know it just gives people a reason to qu to just doubt some of these large destructive media narratives and be like maybe that's not the whole story maybe there's you know maybe there's a lot of other things like we can you know how how so I mean it's always great to to latch into the constructive side of our own thought processes but I think the reason the media like you know what you're calling the kind of media uh Zeitgeist exists um is because it latches into kind of the quote unquote lizard brain of you know everybody out there like it it's it's quick and easy to take a 10-second sound bite that says that people are eating other people's pets and that's going to generate that instant reaction and attention how do we generate that instant reaction and attention and then divert it into okay no you guys got to like think for like half a second I mean that's harder I think they I think large media Outlets have the M like they have the megaphone you know and um so I think that it's it's certainly challenging I think you know you know we trying again thinking from the perspective of what artists can do you know again uh find the biggest megaphones and and put better messages into the world I think is is you know the best we can do I mean um but I think it's complicated again I think that it's it is one uh it is one of many things that are required to combat something as large as you know a you know a huge media pres like a you know if you have a national platform you know that's a huge megaphone to to put these things through but I also think that yeah on the local level you know if you know different cities with with arts and you know that can that can help change the narrative um as as best as we can um at least creating discourse and conversation um around it so I also think art in those ways whether it's performance art or books or literature whatever it also you know kind of can hold a mirror up to you and like we have a student who told us about a book a child who uh and the book was called what if everyone did that and we say that all the time and I think like we could ask you know when we see headlines like that or whatever we could say we what if everyone did that and I think by going to see a play or reading a book or you know uh hearing a concert can uh can make you go oh okay what if everyone did that and I just think that that's that's like an important reflection on all sides um one of the things I'd like to tie in here is uh the um last week the doj filed uh suit uh in federal court against uh unidentified media comp us-based Media company for being funded by Russian State agents um the the filing was uh detailed enough for people uh that are you know on in the media to sus out that they were talking about uh company that uh that is associated with social media influencers uh Tim P Benny Johnson and others um these uh social media influencers are uh ostensibly right-wing influencers though they often sell themselves as uh neutral uh commentators um and journalists and um you know like the the defense uh that's already been trotted out for this is that oh you know they didn't know where their funding was coming from the company kind of shields them from that um they're they're just getting they're just meeting with people that they're is putting in front of them and saying you know yes I'll do I'll I'll uh you know I'll take funding from you for this how do we um as artists seeking funding seeking uh recognition Etc uh seeking a bigger audience avoid the pitfalls of uh you know getting funding from somebody with an agenda and then taking on their agenda or how do we avoid uh the fall of seeing this kind of you know Candy story of you know like it's it's really easy to make somebody afraid and therefore make them tune into to something like this show I don't you know I was saying the other day on a com comment Thread about you know live streaming that I don't make people afraid you know I don't I don't I don't tell stories to to make people afraid or angry or whatever I just try and tell stories um how do we avoid the pitfall of going well I'm never going to get anywhere I'm never going to get a huge audience with you know like just telling the truth or amplifying voices that are un unheard and going to the the easy narrative the the the things that get people attention I think I think as a small company it's it's I mean you know you have to uh like fundraising is hard and like I said we're pretty new to it but I think by double checking or like making sure that the people who you're aligning yourself with is part of your mission um and by you know going back and making sure that you are telling the stories that you want to be telling and that you're not telling the stories that um someone is paying you a ton of money to tell um I think in a way uh as a small company that's probably actually easier for us because we can go okay these are the stories that I want to be telling I'm just going to tell them and it's um in like a you know like in The Fringe Festival no one was begging us to tell the story of the tire swing we believed in it and we wanted to tell it um so I think for us just you know constantly double-checking and being like does this story align with our mission and um and making sure that the people that we cast or the people that we bring on to our team are people who align with with our mission and our um values Nicole I you know um as a performer uh how does that fit into your you know um choice of performance or choice of of castings that you go out for that kind of thing yeah I think um so first I would like to say that I think that um you can only be so ethical when you're accepting money from anyone and so as long as we're living in a capitalistic Society um the money came from somewhere um and we that's just a reality I think that we need to sit with is that the money came from somewhere um and we only have so much control over um where it came from um as a performer I have really really tried and made it a rule for myself that when auditioning for a project um I'm requesting to see a full script um I I have in the past been you know caught surprised by being in a production of something and um you know there was a joke in there that they really did not align with my values or there's a storyline that I just was not aware of from that initial audition and it you know it took until getting into the rehearsal room um to learning about some things so that's a rule that I have in place for myself is that I want to see a whole script before um you know if that script exists I want to see a whole script um in place so that I know what kinds of words might be coming out of my mouth um before I agree to a project um yeah and I think I think doing a little bit of it takes more time but doing a little bit of research into the people who you're going to be working with um and are they people who align with what is important to you um I I think my uh bigger question is you know like how do we uh you know this ties back to conversations we've had in the past you know small and as you point out smaller theater have an easier time of this how do we avoid the Easy Money of picking stories that that will definitely you know get an audience um if they don't if if they're just off the edge of what we want to say uh so to to add something to that I think um something that I was told once in like an opera seminar kind of thing was people don't know what they're looking for until they see it and I think that that to me is how I answer that question which is um I think that it's true that there are certain um tactics for uh billing a show that play into like kind of Base emotions and how to you know get people's attention right I mean his whole industry is built on on understanding that right um but I think that at the end of the day I think what artists try and do is get after some kind of Truth in the world again it might not be like a um a completely measurable truth some maybe some pieces that's what they're doing other pieces it's some kind of emotional truth you know um but I think that having conviction in what you are trying to say and um you know trusting that what is that other people might share this truth and I I think that there's um I think there's a lot of connections between people that don't get made in other ways besides art um where you uncover and and um yeah and just like unveil certain truths like this that that we hold in ourselves um so I think in terms of finding uh you know Finding stories and finding ways to Cann I think you have to just trust that those that that if it's important to you that other people might have the feelings and you have no idea and I actually think that's something that has been beautiful to see with our show is that so many people have come up to us and have been like just you know talked about how moved they've been how important this story was to them or like we'll hear from like you know indirectly from somebody like a partner like oh like you know my partner was just so in like touched by this and like it really I had no idea this was something that you know they needed to hear and so I I I think that to me is this is the solution ultim Ely is and I think it's again one of the beauties of why people need to make art is because we have no idea how many of these truths are um dormant in society and I think that's what's exciting about it is realizing like yeah like a lot of people need to hear this message right now um so um so uh I'm going to wrap up with one story that I'll bring to the table but uh before I get to that just where can people see uh your show where where is it on when is it on through how much are tickets Etc yeah so the tire swing has one more show this upcoming Sunday September 15th at 5 o'clock it's at Christ Church Neighborhood House in Old City um it's on the fourth floor it's in the theater and tickets are general admission is $25 but there are um several pay what you can options Through The Fringe web website um you can go to our website as well circus Opera company.org and there's a reroute on there that will take you to tickets awesome um so uh just to uh just we hit an hour so I I wanted to get that out there um so uh and just because you guys had as uh I had asked uh you have a couple extra minutes so I just wanted to uh put on the table uh bring to the table the story that the that um a temple law and hunos uh the Philadelphia based immigrant advocacy organization have uh done a study of conditions at Michonne Valley processing center which is a privately owned and operated Immigration and Customs enfor Enforcement Detention Center in Clearfield Clearfield County Pennsylvania um nearly 2,000 people are housed in a facility um uh and uh either uh while they await trial or while they await deportation um uh and uh some of the people that are um uh that are housed there are not even uh actually immigrants or uh you know uh immigrants without documentation uh they can be be people like uh there there's a a person there right now who uh came here as a child avoiding um violence in Cambodia um and uh is for all intents and purposes a us uh citizen um and he's facing deportation right now uh because of uh uh uh because of Trump era policies uh enacted with uh immigrant The Immigrant Community um the report outlines areas of uh abuse physical psychological mistreatment barriers to Justice including including lack of legal representation and problems with health and wellbeing um and uh just you know I want to bring this to the table because uh it it's it's important that we acknowledge and tell the stories of of things that are violently wrong with uh our society as it exists uh I think this is is one of the more important topics locally that we can actually do something about um but there's been drives uh by many people to close this uh this uh Immigration Center um uh to reform it to what whatever we need to do to start treating uh the Immigrant Community here in Pennsylvania uh more more holistically and uh more equitably and justly um what uh my immigrant um story uh because most of us are either immigrants or child of immigrants is uh I'm the the child and grandchild of an immigrant um my grandmother on my father's side is a is a Japanese woman uh she immigrated with her husband my grandfather my my grandfather is a black man so there's that story of immigration um you know he's a third generation uh uh member of the the uh you know enslaved community of African people um and my mother is a German immigrant uh she came here from uh Germany by way of Greece uh and you know uh was adopted by a US citizen so became a citizen in her childhood um there are a lot of other types of immigration story um what if any uh uh perspective uh do each of you have on immigration what what what uh what do you find valuable or invaluable about immigration um I have a pretty recent immigration history in my family um my my mom is from Canada which you know culturally that doesn't really feel that different but she was born to Greek immigrants to in Canada my grandparents were born in Greece uh my mom's first language was Greek um I you know I I think that the the culture of this country is made by immigrants I mean it just wouldn't be what it is um and I I think uh something that is I find very painful about what we hear about immigration and the attitudes towards immigration now is that um you know I think a lot of people in positions of power have um conditioned people who have benefited from past immigration policies and laws um have conditioned them to almost like weaponize their own experience against um people who are currently trying to make that that Journey here and to make that that path towards citizenship here um it's almost like a a pulling up of the ladder behind them so to speak um so I find that very painful I think we lose a lot by doing that yeah definitely um yeah yeah I I I'm I'm constantly flumix but and and this goes back to earlier in the conversation you know the the more there and the more you do the more there is the more people here um and every study done on immigrant communities anywhere in the world literally is that the Immigrant Community provides more to the the host Community than it draws from the host community and resources but uh yeah um yeah so uh Casey um your thoughts yeah I mean I think that with like you said The more you what is your saying the more you do the more there is Yeah the more you do the more there is yeah I mean and that I keep coming back to that idea I think that's what makes this city so special too is just because um like Nicole said like the culture of immigrants built the culture of the United States and like Philly is it's you know it is true about Philadelphia as well I think that um from the different neighborhoods to the different just like meshing of everything I think that's what's so beautiful about The Fringe Festival in a way too because not only are you getting art from either immigrants in Philly descendants of immigrants in Philly and then those people coming from all over the country to the Philadelphia Fringe Festival too I think it's like such a September is such a rich time in art for this city because you are getting just hundreds of shows from local artists and artists from all over the country and there are even people from they International artists who come in and do like a you know a fringe tour too so I think um I think art benefits from that as well and Stephen uh any experience or uh the stories of immigration in your family sure yeah so um uh so my family is uh predominantly Italian uh Italian American so um I have on both sides of my family um both Northern and and Southern Italian immigrants as well as Sicilian immigrants um I'm several Generations in from that um from that story and so the way that I my take away from that is you know i' I have lived a I would consider a very privileged background in many ways and and upbringing and um you know to Echo what Nicole is saying it's I think we the there's a narrative in society of weaponizing immigration and I actually it's almost like a hazing policy of like okay I did this so now you have to do this and that's that's like the right way to do this and I fundamentally disagree with that I think that we actually have to take the the uh you know invert that policy and actually pay it forward and recognize that you know we're all coming from like we have and somewhere in our past there is a story that Echoes the immigration story and you know it's one of the best things about the United States and I think it is uh one of our biggest promises we put out into the world and I think it's really important that we uphold that promise and welcome folks to this country the way that my ancestors were welcomed at one point um we at the very least you know we're granted the opportunity to be here and um you know so I I take the mindset of like pay it forward you know like let you know yeah let people tell their stories and you know let let folks come here for a better life and give them a better life yeah that mindset uh that mindset difference I think uh is applicable across a lot of different conversations that are in in the current uh Society you know whether it be uh student loan forgiveness or you know immigration um uh what do we do next as a society women's rights even you know uh that mindset um seems to be applicable across uh a lot of different things and um it's it's it's very interesting uh to see at least to me uh to see how it ties in with with all those things um I'm sure we'll we'll get into that on future episodes any um last thoughts uh K Casey from from you um uh any last thoughts on uh today's show or or your show uh and uh moving forward in Philadelphia no I just want to say thank you so much for having us it was such a pleasure to chat with you this morning I think that um you know the more we can ask ourselves these questions the better our art is and so I I thank you for bringing these uh topics up today no problem uh Stephen yeah I want to Echo that yeah I really appreciate the conversation um and U yeah thank you for having us on and Nicole um I'll Echo all of that I'd like to add one little thing to what I said about um culture being created by immigrants there's also a group that gets overlooked in conversations um about how important the impact of immigrants is and that is our indigenous population there was a really beautiful and vibrant culture many cultures here before there was any kind of immigration from Europe um so just acknowledging that and throwing that out there too yeah one I had an interesting conversation so the other day uh with a group of dads um so uh this is going to go all over the place but I apologize um the I'm in a group called uh Bluey dads um there's a kids show called Bluey it's based in Australia um a bunch of dogs uh sing songs um the uh there's a group uh uh of Bluey dads that you know like we were all you know trying to be dads in the age of Bluey and uh talk about parenting a lot but sometimes we talk about guys things um and the conversation was interesting because it was about the adoption of Kilt wearing by men uh in various countries um and uh uh our European uh members didn't quite understand why none of the American uh people who wear kilts responded with anything having to do with uh well always responded with something having to do with their Heritage or links back to Europe um and um you know what I I I realized uh through that conversation is that um nobody uh is willing to take on the effects that uh immigration had on the Native American population and nobody that isn't Native American really has uh any way to call themselves American um because you know to be American means you're Native American not not you know uh one of the cultures that displaced the American culture that already existed here uh and the and the societies that already existed here before European immigration um but yeah uh it became an interesting conversation from that perspective I think you know like um a lot of Europeans there's almost I I don't think there's any European uh well I'll take that back my my Dutch friend watches this so um but uh I I'll be interested to see his his response to it if uh if he so chooses to to talk about it but yeah like the European uh Europeans don't quite understand why uh a lot of us uh talk about our heritage so much uh and I I I would find it interesting to have a conversation about what it's like to grow up in a place where your heritage is where you're living versus uh grow up in a place where nobody's Heritage is where you're living except for a very vanish in ly small percentage of the population that uh that their Heritage is tied to the the land on on which they live um so yeah um that might be an interesting topic for a future future show but thank you for bringing that up it's it's uh it's a a very important uh thought process that that uh that we don't really have a good solution for but yeah um thank you for being uh my guest today I'm going to go to a oneup of me uh I'm going to outro the show um and um I look forward to having future conversations with you guys um let me know uh further in advance when you when you have a show or let Meg know and and we'll get you on uh to promote to promote your show then um and uh thank thank you again for being our guest today thank you so much thanks for having us um and thank you to you guys uh that view the show every week uh I really appreciate it um we're back from Hiatus we we're probably doing shows every week uh through at least the election we'll probably do a couple of shows after the election talking about the Philadelphia budget uh which will uh be a conversation throughout uh uh October uh excuse me throughout uh December and in then into January um I hope that uh we can provide you some interesting tie-ins between the Arts and politics and uh the current conversation uh in in the community so that you can you know get a a different perspective than perhaps what you have access to otherwise um tune in next week everybody hit that like uh or subscribe button um share this with your friends uh repost it to your own timeline if you like um what have you uh but get the get this uh broadcast out there uh especially if you like what you see uh it helps other people see it um so tune in next week everybody and uh I hope you have the have a great rest of your week [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] n [Music] n [Music]