Biden v. Trump: Analysis from the first 2024 presidential debate hosted by CNN

>> JOY. YEAH, I CAN RELATE TO HAVING A WHOLE LOT OF NEGATIVE COVID TEST IN A SLIGHT COLD AS WELL AS I UNDERSTAND NOT FEELING WELL. AND, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY JOE BIDEN COMES IN WITH CERTAIN DEFICITS AS A STARTER. YOU KNOW, HE IS IT IS MORE DIFFICULT FOR HIM TO COMMUNICATE FOR THAT REASON. SO THERE'S A LOT TO MITIGATE THE WAY THAT HE SPEAKS AND YOU CAN UNDERSTAND IT. WE'VE OBSERVED FOR A LONG TIME. THAT SAID I TOO, WAS ON THE PHONE THROUGHOUT MUCH OF THE DEBATE WITH OBAMA WORLD PEOPLE WITH THE DEMOCRATS WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE POLITICAL OPERATIVES WITH CAMPAIGN OPERATIVES. MY PHONE REALLY NEVER STOPPED BUZZING THROUGHOUT AND THE UNIVERSAL REACTION WAS SOMEWHERE APPROACHING PANIC. THE PEOPLE WHO WERE TEXTING WITH ME WERE I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT PRESIDENT BIDEN. SEE ME EXTREMELY PEOPLE SEEMING EXTREMELY WEAK END. YOU KNOW, I'LL JUST REITERATE WHAT I SAID EARLIER. PRESIDENT BIDEN HAD ONE JOB TONIGHT AND IT WAS IT ONE PRIMARY JOB. AND YES, IT WAS TO LITIGATE DONALD TRUMP'S, YOU KNOW, CRIMINALITY AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS. BUT HE HAD TO SETTLE HIS OWN PARTY. HE NEEDED TO SETTLE DEMOCRATS. DEMOCRATS, YOU KNOW, THEY ALWAYS START WITH THE DEMOCRATS ARE BREADWINNERS AND DEMOCRATS ARE ALWAYS PANIC. H YES, DEMOCRATS ALWAYS PANICKING. THEY'RE ALWAYS SCARED, RIGHT? THEY'RE ALWAYS THINKING THEY'RE GOING TO LOSE LIKE DEMOCRATS ARE ARE VERY PESSIMISTIC THERE THAT THIS IS JUST AROUND WHO THEY ARE THERE IN E***** JOE BIDEN'S JOB WAS TO REASSURE THEM TONIGHT. HIS JOB WAS TO CALM HIS PARTY TO MAKE THEM FEEL THAT YES, I CAN DO THIS. I HAVE 4 MORE YEARS IN ME. I HAVE THE ABILITY AND THE STAMINA AND THE STRENGTH TO DO 4 MORE YEARS. HE DID NOT DO THAT. HE DID THE OPPOSITE OF THAT. HE MADE THEM MORE PANICKED. PEOPLE WHO ARE TEXTING ME WERE EVEN MORE PANIC. THEY ACTUALLY EXPECTED TO BE BETTER THAN IT WAS. AND NOW THEY'RE IN A I WON'T SAY A FULL-FLEDGED PANIC, BUT IT'S GETTING THE END OF THE PEOPLE YOU'RE TALKING TO ARE EXPRESSING THESE CONCERNS. ARE THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE INVOLVED IN DEMOCRATIC POLITICS? ARE THESE LIBERALS WATCHING TV IS NOT LIBERALS WATCHING TV. THESE ARE THESE ARE CAMPAIGN PEOPLE. THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE EITHER DEMOCRATIC OPERATIVES. THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE FORMER, YOU KNOW, SORT OF IT BOUGHT A BOTTLE WITH ADMINISTRATION PEOPLE. THESE PEOPLE ARE IN THE BUSINESS. OKAY, SO THAT THE CIVILIANS ARE ALSO PANICKING. THEY'RE ALSO TESTING ME. BUT I WAS TRYING TO KIND OF IGNORE THE CIVILIANS AND REALLY TALK TO THE CAMPAIGN, FOLKS. PEOPLE ARE THEY'RE WORRIED. AND THERE IS, YOU KNOW, IT STARTED A FULL DRUMBEAT YET, BUT THERE IS TALK OF LOOK, HERE'S THE THING WE KNOW. I KNOW A LOT OF POLITICIANS HAVE BEEN A LOT OF THEM THAT A LOT OF LEVELS. THEY ALL BELIEVE THAT THEY HAVE A UNIQUE ABILITY TO RUN THE RACE THAT THEY PATCH. WE WANT TO RUN. AND I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT JOE BIDEN PASSIONATELY BELIEVES THAT HE IS THE ONLY PERSON WHO CAN BEAT DONALD TRUMP AND HE HAS EVIDENCE OF IT BECAUSE HE DID IT BEFORE. HE KNOWS THAT HE HAS CERTAIN DEMOGRAPHIC STRENGTHS THAT DONALD TRUMP CANNOT COUNTER. HE IS THE REAL WORKING CLASS WHITE GUY. THAT'S ACTUALLY DONALD TRUMP'S BASE. SO YOU KNOW HOW TO TALK TO THEM. HE HE BELIEVES THAT HE IS THE ONLY PERSON THAT CAN DO IT. THE PROBLEM IS AFTER TONIGHT, HIS PARTY TO BELIEVE THAT. >> WANT TO HEAR FROM LAWRENCE AND CHRIS AS WELL. I FIRST WANT TO GO TO OUR COLLEAGUE ALEX WAGNER, WHO WAS ON SITE IN ATLANTA. SHE HAS BEEN WATCHING THE DEBATE IN THE SPIN ROOM. ALEX, WHAT'S THE REACTION THAT YOU'VE BEEN HERE AND THERE? >> I'M NOT GOING TO PUT A FINE SHEEN ON IT. ARRESTS ARE A SPIN ON IT. EVEN THOUGH I'M IN THE SPIN ROOM, RACHEL, THERE HAS BEEN UNIFORMLY NEGATIVE REACTION TO BIDEN'S PERFORMANCE TONIGHT. SURELY, AS YOU KNOW, JOY SAID THIS IS ABOUT REVEALING WHO DONALD TRUMP WAS, BUT IT WAS ALSO JOE BIDEN BATTLING A CARICATURE OF OF HIMSELF AS AN ENFEEBLED PERSON. THE IMPRESSION THAT TRUMP HAS BEEN EAGER TO CONVEY TO THE COUNTRY AND HE DID NOTHING TO DISABUSE. I THINK THE COUNTRY OF THE NOTION THAT HE IS VERY OLD AND WAS LAST FREQUENTLY IN THAT DEBATE. I MEAN, ON ANSWERS THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN TO PUT IT BLUNTLY A LAYUP FOR HIM, WHETHER WAS ABORTION OR THE ATTACK ON ABORTION MEDICATION, HIS ANSWERS WERE RAMBLING AND INCOHERENT. HE TURNED AN ANSWER. HE TURNED TO A RESPONSE ON ABORTION IN 2, A MENTION OF MIGRANT KILLING. I MEAN, THIS IS A PERSON THAT CLEARLY WAS OVER PREPARED, HAD A LOT OF DIFFERENT POINTS THAT WERE SORT OF SWIMMING AROUND IN HIS HEAD. AND AS A RESULT, IT FELT LIKE IT. YOU KNOW, THE ANSWERS THAT WERE LET JABAL, IF YOU WILL, WERE NOT NEARLY DELIVERED WITH THE FORCE AND THE CLARITY THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN. AND I WILL SAY DONALD TRUMP WAS IN SOME WAYS THE MOST TRUMPY. HE HE HAS BEEN LATELY FULL OF LIES AND MISINFORMATION, BUT IT WAS ALMOST AN AFTERTHOUGHT. I THINK THE THE PRESS THAT I'VE SPOKEN WITH ME SORT OF THE FOCUS IN THIS ROOM IS JUST, YOU KNOW, THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN WANTED THIS TO BE. THIS WAS THEIR IDEA. AND THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS AS PART OF THEIR STRATEGY. IT IS CONFOUNDING. WE WERE TOLD EARLIER THIS EVENING THAT THE BIDEN SPIN TEAM WOULD BE ONLY MAKING BRIEF REMARKS IN THE ROOM. AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT IS INDICATIVE OF A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE WHO UNDERSTOOD THE WEAKNESSES THAT THEIR CANDIDATE HAD IN ADVANCE OF OF THIS DEBATE. BUT YOU CAN SURELY UNDERSTAND THE LOGIC OF THAT AFTER THE FACT. >> ALEX, WE'VE JUST HAD CONFIRMATION JUST A WHILE. WE HAVE BEEN SPEAKING. IF YOU JUST THIS MOMENT OF THAT IN IN JUST A MOMENT, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS JOINING US LIVE. SO THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN HERE JUST WITHIN A MATTER OF MOMENTS. LAWRENCE, ALSO WANT TO GET YOUR RESPONSE. I THINK ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS THAT ALEX SAID THERE WAS THAT SOME OF THE POOR COHERENCE AND POOR ANSWERS FROM DONALD TRUMP ARE BEING VIEWED AS STANDARD TRUMP AND THEREFORE NOT NEWSWORTHY WHILE THE PERFORMANCE FROM PRESIDENT BIDEN IS BEING VIEWED AS NEWSWORTHY BECAUSE IT CAME IN BELOW EXPECTATIONS. YEAH. ANY SORT OF NORMAL >> UNIVERSE YOU WOULD THINK THE CANDIDATE WHO DURING THE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES SAID I DIDN'T HAVE SEX WITH A PORN STAR. >> WHAT'S THE LOSER? YEAH. THAT WOULD BE THE NORMAL SCORECARD. >> SO LET'S JUST REMEMBER THAT SO FAR. THE ONLY THING WE'VE BEEN CONCENTRATING ON HERE IS OPTICS. THAT THING WE CALL UPTICKS IN THIS CASE, ALSO AUDIO BECAUSE OF THE AGING VOICE OF JOE BIDEN. BUT THE QUESTION IS THAT WE DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS VOTERS OUT THERE WHO WENT INTO THIS DEBATE THINKING THERE FOR BIDEN ARE THERE FOR TRUMP ARE THINKING WHATEVER THEY WERE THINKING. WHAT IN THIS DEBATE OF SUBSTANCE? THAT WAS TRUE. IF ANYTHING MOVE TO THEIR VOTE. SO IF YOU REALLY WANT TO LOOK AT IT IN TERMS OF WHAT IS IT SUPPOSED TO PAY THAT SUPPOSED TO BE AN ILLUMINATING FOR HIM AND WHAT YOU LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT THE CANDIDATE THAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW BEFORE? THAT IS TRUE. NOT THAT YOU LEARN A LOT FROM THE CANDIDATE. THAT IS THAT'S NOT WHAT THAT'S ALL THE OBJECT OF THIS. BUT GIVEN THAT THE THE OPTICS IS THE WAY THE GAME IS PLAYED, WE DON'T YET KNOW WHEN WE'LL KNOW IN POLLING A WEEK FROM NOW OR SO IS WHAT WAS THE EFFECT OF ALL OF THIS AND WHAT WAS THE EFFECT OF THE GUY WHO SAID, YOU KNOW, I DID NOT HAVE SEX WITH A PORN STAR. WHAT WAS THE EFFECT OF THE CONVICTED CRIMINAL CANDIDATE POINTING TO THE OTHER CANDIDATE AND CALLING HIM A CRIMINAL? WHAT IS THE EFFECT OF ALL OF THAT BACK AND FORTH? AND I THINK WE'RE GUESSING ABOUT WHAT THE EFFECT IS OF THE REALIZATION. THE JOE BIDEN IS ACTUALLY AS OLD AS BIRTH CERTIFICATE SAYS HE IS HIS VOICE. IS THAT ALL TOO? BUT HE'S 10 YEARS YOUNGER THAN WARREN BUFFETT AND BOTH OF THEM HAVE A JOB THAT IS ESSENTIALLY MAKING DECISIONS. AND WHAT WAS NOT SHOWN TO ME IN A WAY THAT WAS TRUE IN THAT DEBATE IS THAT JOE BIDEN HAS MADE BAD DECISIONS IN THE PRESIDENCY. I DON'T SEE THE SET OF BAD DECISIONS AND WHAT WAS DONE ON THE BIDEN PRESIDENCY. WAS SHE CERTAINLY UNDERDEVELOPED IN A DEBATE WHERE YOU NEVER HEARD THE WORD INFRASTRUCTURE, FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE IT WAS PRETTY UNDERDEVELOPED AS THIS ONE ON. AND THAT IS A LOT TO DO WITH THE NATURE OF THE RULES OF THESE DEBATES. I THINK YOU WHAT YOU JUST PUT YOUR FINGER ON TO ME IS SORT OF THE WHOLE ISSUE AROUND WHERE WE FIND OURSELVES THE JOB OF THE PRESIDENT MAKING DECISIONS. THE JOB OF A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE IS TO COMMUNICATE. >> IT JUST IT'S THAT'S THE JOB. IT'S A COMMUNICATIONS JOB. IT IS TALKING TO PEOPLE AND COMMUNICATING THE PERSUADING THEM TRYING TO GET PEOPLE WHO DON'T AGREE WITH YOU. I THINK JOE BIDEN IS A VERY GOOD RECORD ON MAKING DECISIONS AND I THINK HE'S A VERY POOR COMMUNICATOR RIGHT NOW. INABILITY TO COMMUNICATE. AND I SEE THIS ALL THE TIME. WE WILL COVER THINGS ON OUR SHOW ALL THE TIME. THIS BIG OPEC OIL TRADE, THEY DID. YOU KNOW WHERE THEY THEY BOUGHT? HI, THEY THEY THEY BOUGHT OIL VERY CHEAP AND THEN THEY SOLD VERY HIGH THAT MADE ALL THIS MONEY. A KIND OF BROKE THE BACK OF OPEC. PEOPLE SAY I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. YEAH. I KNOW WHAT. THAT'S AWESOME. THAT'S COOL. JOE BIDEN SHOULD BE THE PERSON COMMUNICATING THAT JOE BIDEN IS NOT GOOD AT COMMUNICATING HIS OWN RECORD AND IN THE CONTEXT OF THE CAMPAIGN RIGHT RIGHT NOW, HIS JOB NUMBER ONE IS COMMUNICATE SO THAT, YOU KNOW, AND I DON'T DISAGREE WITH YOU. AND I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT THE DECISION MAKING. BUT I THINK THE REASON THAT THERE IS ALL THIS, YOU KNOW, ANXIETY AND ALL THIS UP IS BECAUSE ULTIMATELY AND PARTICULARLY IN THE TELEVISION AGE, A LOT OF THE PRESIDENCY IS COMMUNICATING, PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU'RE RUNNING FOR REELECTION WHEN IT IS THE THING THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, THAT THAT THERE'S ANOTHER JOB OF THE PRESS. AND AND THIS IS EVEN >> PRE THE TELEVISION. AND THERE'S A REASON THAT FDR WAS NEVER SHOWN IN HIS WHEELCHAIR. THERE'S A REASON THAT JOHN F KENNEDY PRETENDED TO BE A VIGOROUS MAN. HE WAS CERTAINLY NOT. AND KENNEDY ACCELERATED IT. AND I THINK REAGAN SUPER ACCELERATED BECAUSE HE WAS AN ACTOR. HE WAS A HOLLYWOOD FIGURE AND IT'S ONLY GOTTEN MORE INTENSE UNTIL WE GOT TO PRESIDENT OBAMA WHO LIKE BECAME POPULAR, PARTLY BECAUSE LIKE RAP ARTISTS WERE LIKE TAKING HIS SPEECHES AND TURNING THEM INTO LIKE HIT MUSIC VIDEO LIKE IT'S ACCELERATED. BUT IT WAS EVEN TRUE DURING THE ROOSEVELT ERA. THE PRESIDENT IS AN AVATAR FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE A VERY HIGH OPINION OF THEMSELVES. AMERICAN PEOPLE THINK OF THEMSELVES. THIS COUNTRY INVENTED THE CONCEPT OF THE SUPERHERO FOR A REASON BECAUSE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THINK WE'RE CAPTAIN AMERICA. THEY THINK WE'RE STRONGLY THINK WERE ROBUST AND THEY WANT THEIR PRESIDENT TO LOOK THAT WAY. WHEN HOWARD TAFT AND LIVED IN AN ERA WHERE THEY SAW PICTURES OF THE PRESIDENT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE PRESIDENT OF AMERICANS WANT THE PRESIDENT TO REPRESENT THEM IN THE WORLD IN A CERTAIN WAY THAT HAS BIGGER THAT HAS STRENGTH. AL GORE WAS A BRILLIANT MAN. EXCELLENT DECISION MAKER MADE EXCELLENT DECISIONS AS VICE PRESIDENT AMERICANS DIDN'T CARE. THEY WANTED THE GUY THEY THOUGHT WAS COOLER. THAT'S JUST REAL TALK ABOUT AMERICANS ABOUT AMERICAN VOTERS. AND SO TO YOUR POINT, JOE BIDEN AND YES, HE'S A GOOD GUY. YOU CAN LOOK AT HIS RECORD AND HIS FACTION, ONE OF THE BEST RECORD OF ANY MODERN PRESIDENT. IT IS A TOP 10 PRESIDENT'S RECORD. BUT YOU CAN'T BECOME PRESIDENT AGAIN. >> WHEN AMERICA LOOKS AT YOU AND THAT AVATAR TO THEM LOOKS BROKEN. LET'S NOT PRETEND THIS IS A GOOD THING, RIGHT? LET'S JUST REMEMBER THAT. BUT WHAT'S HAPPENED HERE IS IMAGERY HAS TAKEN CONTROL OF THE WAY WE SEE PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN. YES, FDR COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE SURVIVED LIKE THIS AT ANY TIME. AND HE WAS ARGUABLY OUR BEST PRESIDENTS COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE DONE IT. HE WAS IN MUCH WORSE PHYSICAL. SHE IN HIS LAST PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN AND WAS IN EFFECT MUCH COLDER BECAUSE HE TURNS OUT HE WAS IN THE LAST YEAR OF HIS LIFE AND HIS LAST PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN, WHICH HE WON. WE DON'T HAVE A BETTER GOVERNMENT BECAUSE WE'VE TURNED TO THE MOST SUPERFICIAL COMPONENTS OF POLITICS TO DECIDE OUR CANDIDATES. IF WE DID THAT IN THE 1940'S, FDR WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN PRESIDENT AND, YOU KNOW, GOOD LUCK BEFORE WORK. >> MY COLLEAGUE ALEX WAGNER STANDING BY RIGHT NOW WITH CALIFORNIA GOVERNOR BIDEN SURROGATE GAVIN NEWSOM. ALEX, I CANNOT WAIT FOR THIS CONVERSATION. >> WELL, NEITHER CAN I WANT YOU GUYS CAN SEE IT. BUT THERE'S THEY'RE LIKE ALL OF TRUMP'S SHORTLIST VP NOMINEES ARE WALKING AROUND ON THE GROUND. NOBODY WANTS TO TALK TO THEM. IT WAS LIKE HUMAN PER ANA'S DESCENDING ON THE GOVERNOR AFTER THE END OF THIS DEBATE. GOVERNOR, LET ME JUST I MEAN, WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO WHAT WE SAW? >> ON-SCREEN ONE ON THE SUBSTANCE WON THE DEBATE. I'M OLD SCHOOL FASHION. THAT'S WHAT MATTERS TO ME ABOUT THE LIES. I WAS TAKING NOTES ABOUT ALL THE LIES AROUND OUT OF PAPER. DONALD TRUMP. NO ACCOUNTABILITY ON THOSE LIES. TALKING DOWN THE AMERICAN ECONOMY, TALKING DOWN OUR DEMOCRACY. THAT WAS ALARMING. THIS IS A WORLD WE'RE LIVING IN NOW. DONALD TRUMP CREATED WERE 13 YEAR-OLDS HAVE TO DELIVER THE CHILD OF THE PERSON THAT IMPREGNATING THEM. THIS IS A WORLD THAT DONALD TRUMP IS CREATED. AND SO FOR ME, IT WAS DAYLIGHT AND DARKNESS. AND I'M VERY PROUD OF THE PRESIDENT'S RECORD. AND I'M VERY PROUD PERSON IS IN THE FUTURE. >> I MEAN, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE SUBSTANCE THAT BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE ON THE SIGNATURE ISSUE THE DEMOCRATS HAVE, WHICH IS ABORTION. THE PRESIDENT'S RESPONSE WAS GARBLED AND AND DIRECTED AT BEST. YOU FEEL LIKE HE DID WHAT HE NEEDED TO ON ON AN ISSUE THAT COULD MOTIVATE VOTERS. AND I THINK IT'S >> SIGNIFICANTLY IN SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE IT'S THE MINIMUM BECAUSE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE MADE UP THEIR MINDS. THEY DON'T SUPPORT THE POLICIES OF DONALD TRUMP. THEY CERTAINLY DON'T SUPPORT HIS POLICIES OR HIS ASSERTION. SOMEHOW THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ALWAYS WANTED THIS TO BE STATES RIGHTS, WHICH IS LAUGHABLE AND ABSURD. SO FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, I DON'T THINK THAT WILL MATTER. YOU SAW IT IN ALL THE ELECTIONS SINCE STOPS WHERE DEMOCRATS ARE OVER, PERFORMING OVER PERFORMING. WE KEEP WINNING. WE HAVE TO KEEP OUR MIND. SO I THINK FOR ALL OF US WORRY LESS AND DO MORE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TURN THE PAGE OF THE OPPORTUNITY TO PUT OUR HEADS DOWN THE TO OPPORTUNITY. 2 UNIVERSITY HAVE THE BACK OF THIS PRESIDENT WHO'S HAD OUR BACK. YOU DON'T TURN YOUR BACK. YOU GO HOME OF THE ONE THAT BROUGHT YOU TO THE DANCE 100% ALL IN. AND I WAS VERY, VERY PROUD THAT HE'S ABLE TO ARTICULATE THE WORK THAT HE'S DONE. >> AND LAY A FOUNDATION OF UNDERSTANDING OF THE LIES AND THE DECEIT THAT CONTINUE TO COME OUT OF DONALD TRUMP. YOU ARE OUT THERE GETTING A COURSE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER BIDEN SHOULD STEP DOWN. THERE IS PANIC THAT IS SAID AND DONE WELL. THERE IS PANIC THAT HAS SET IN AMONG PEOPLE WHO HAVE WATCHED THIS DEBATE WHO ARE DEMOCRATS, PEOPLE WHO ARE STRATEGIST AND SOME EVEN INSIDE DEMOCRATIC CAMPAIGNS. >> DO YOU THINK IT'S UNFOUNDED? I THINK IT'S UNHELPFUL. AND I THINK IT'S UNNECESSARY. WE'VE GOT TO GO AND GOT TO KEEP OUR HEADS HIGH. AND AS I SAY, WE'VE GOT TO THE BACK OF THIS PRESIDENT, YOU KNOW, TURN YOUR BACK BECAUSE THE ONE PERFORMANCE, WHAT KIND OF PARTY DOES THAT? IT'S BEEN A MASTERCLASS 15.6 MILLION JOBS. THAT'S A TIMES OF THE LAST 3 REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTS COMBINED. THE ONLY THING LAST 3 REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTS HAVE IN COMMON IS RECESSIONS. DEMOCRATS DELIVER. THIS PRESIDENT HAS DELIVERED. WE NEED TO DELIVER FOR HIM AT THIS MOMENT. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, THE MORE TIMELY WE START HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS GO DOWN, THESE RABBIT WAS UNHELPFUL TO OUR DEMOCRACY, THE FATE AND FUTURE OF THIS COUNTRY, THE WORLD, THEY NEED US RIGHT NOW TO STEP UP. AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I INTEND TO DO. >> NOT TO BELABOR THE POINT. BUT I MEAN, THIS WAS A BIDEN CAMPAIGN STRATEGY. THIS WAS THEIR IDEA TO DO THIS. THIS DEBATE NOW. AND I WONDER WHAT YOU THINK THEY GOT OUT OF IT. WHAT WAS BIDEN STRONGEST MOMENT FROM THIS DEBATE IN YOUR MIND? AGAIN, BACK TO THE SUBSTANCE TO GET STRONGER AND MORE STAMINA? >> OVER THE DEBATES, WAS THERE ONE MOMENT THAT YOU THINK STICKS? YOU KNOW THAT IT'S DIFFICULT TO ASSESS. I NEED A LITTLE BIT MORE OBJECTIVE T AND TIME AWAY FROM THIS IN THE CONTEXT OF TRYING TO PICK THOSE MOMENTS. BUT LOOK AT THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO SORT OF STILL THE ESSENCE OF WHAT THIS CAMPAIGN'S ABOUT. YOU'RE HEARING THE MESSAGING FROM THE CAMP CAMPAIGN DISTILL DOWN WHAT THAT KEY MESSAGES TURN THE PAGE, GO TO NORTH CAROLINA TOMORROW. WE'RE GET THAT OUT THERE ON THE ROAD. SURROGATES NEED TO STEP UP. WE NEED TO STEP IN TO SUPPORT THIS GRASSROOTS EFFORT ALL ACROSS THE UNITED STATES. WE NEED TO RAISE MONEY AND WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S AT STAKE. IF WE DON'T, WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S AT STAKE. IF WE TURN OUR BACK AT THIS CRITICAL TIME, THERE'S TOO MUCH. >> IF IF IF BIDEN AND TRUMP OR AMEND REMEMBERED FOR ANY PARTICULAR LINE TO ME, IT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD BE THE LINE. I DIDN'T HAVE SEX WITH A PORN STAR WAS NOT SOMETHING WE FIRED ON A DEBATE STAGE BEFORE. >> YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU USE THE WORDS, I DIDN'T HAVE SEX WITH THE POINTS ARE YOU'RE NOT WINNING. YOU'RE LOSING AT THAT CASE. >> YES, I ABSOLUTELY. I KNOW OUR FRIENDS IN NEW YORK HAVE QUESTIONS FOR YOU SO WE COULD GO BACK TO NEW YORK CITY, RACHEL. >> HEY, GOVERNOR NEWSOM, IT'S RACHEL MADDOW HERE. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING TIME HERE. WHEN YOU SAID WORRY LESS AND DO MORE, DO WHAT? WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT PRESIDENT BIDEN, PEOPLE IN DEMOCRATIC POLITICS, PEOPLE WHO ARE PLANNING ON VOTING FROM HER WORRIED THAT HE SEEMED OLDER THAN EXPECTED TONIGHT THAT HE DIDN'T SEEM TO REASSURE PEOPLE ON STAMINA. ISSUES IS DRY WAS SAYING BEFORE, WHAT WHAT SHOULD PEOPLE DO? >> WE'LL TALK ABOUT WHAT HE'S DONE AND WHAT HE'S DONE RECENTLY. WHAT IS DELIVERED AND BIPARTISAN UNPRECEDENTED LEGISLATION, AN INFRASTRUCTURE BILL, THE CHIPS AND SCIENCE ACT, THE WORK THAT HE'S DONE ACROSS THE SPECTRUM OF ISSUES TO DELIVER FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND THE VISION HE'S LAID OUT FOR THE FUTURE. IN CONTRAST THAT NOT JUST LIFTING UP THOSE ISSUES, THE CONTRAST THAT DRIVE THAT CONTEST OF THE DYSTOPIAN VISION THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS TO THE FUTURE, IT'S A BINARY CHOICE AT THE END OF THE DAY. AND SO WE'VE GOT TO DRIVE THAT CONTRAST EVEN HARDER AND TRUMP TO MAKE THAT BETTER TONIGHT BECAUSE HE CONTINUED THE LIES AND THE GRIEVANCES AND THE RETRIBUTION AND THE LANGUAGE THAT NO ONE DOES WANT TO SEE MOVING FORWARD. HE'S ALL ABOUT THE PAST. AMERICAN RIVER SAYS HE WANTS TO BRING US BACK TO PRE 1960'S WORLD VOTING RIGHTS, CIVIL RIGHTS, LGBTQ RIGHTS, WOMEN'S RIGHTS, ACCESS TO ABORTION, ACCESS TO CONTRACEPTION. THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT. THAT'S WHAT'S ON THE BALLOT. DEMOCRACY, THE FATE AND FUTURE THIS COUNTRY FOR THAT MATTER ALLIANCES AROUND THE WORLD. WE NEED TO BUCK UP AND FOCUS ON WHAT'S AT STAKE AND NOT NAVEL GAZE AND NOT LOOK BACK. YOU LOOK FOR TOYS ABOUT TOMORROW. EVERYTHING'S ABOUT TOMORROW. >> IN TERMS OF OF OF BUCKING UP AND NOT NAVEL GAZING AND MOVING FORWARD, IF YOU WERE TO ADVISE THE CAMPAIGN, HOW TO TURBOCHARGE HOW TO KICK UP INTO ANOTHER LEVEL, I DO THINK THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE UP GROUND. THEY DIDN'T PREVIOUSLY HAVE TO MAKE UP BECAUSE OF THIS DEBATE PERFORMANCE. WHAT CAN THEY DO THAT THEY'RE NOT DOING? SHOULD THEY DO THE SECOND DEBATE IN SEPTEMBER? SHOULD THEY CHANGE COURSE IN SOME OF THE WAYS THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO COMMUNICATE? I HEAR YOU MAKING A VERY STRONG CASE FOR PRESIDENT BIDEN'S RECORD, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY SHOULD DO TO MAKE THAT CASE MORE STRONGLY THAN THEY HAVE. >> WELL, I THINK IT IS DOUBLE DOWN ON WHAT WE'RE DOING. WE'RE ALL WE'RE ALL THE HYPE ABOUT A 6 STATES ACROSS THIS COUNTRY AND JUST DO MY SMALL PART. THERE'S HUNDREDS 100'S OF US WILL BE GOING OUT. WE HAVE A CLEAR MESSAGE IS CLEAR. CONTRAST WITH DONALD TRUMP AND HIS PERFORMANCE TONIGHT IS DOUBLING DOWN ON LIES AND DECEIT. WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BUILD A GRASSROOTS TO GET PEOPLE TO RECOGNIZE WHAT'S AT STAKE IF WE DON'T UNIFY AS A DEMOCRATIC PARTY. AND AGAIN, IT'S A CHOICE. THIS IS A CHOICE ELECTION. IT'S A LOOK. ALL I KNOW WHAT TO DO IS WAKE UP TOMORROW AND DO MORE AND DO BETTER AND WORRY LESS ABOUT ACTION. IT'S ABOUT PASSION ABOUT PURPOSE AND IT'S ABOUT HAVING THE BACK OF A PRESIDENT THAT'S HAD OUR BACK. >> GOVERNOR NEWSOM, IT'S TENSE. OKAY. I WANT TO ASK YOU, WE'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT PRESIDENT BIDEN AND HIS PERFORMANCE AND HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS. IF YOU HAVE VOTERS OUT THERE COULD SEE ONE ANSWER FROM DONALD TRUMP TONIGHT FOR ONE MOMENT THAT STUCK OUT TO YOU WHERE YOU THOUGHT PEOPLE CANNOT ELECT THIS MAN. WHAT WOULD THAT BE? I MEAN, WHAT SHOULD PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO HAVE SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS LIKE PRESIDENT BIDEN BE PUSHING OUT THERE THAT WAS DAMAGING AND TERRIBLE FROM DONALD TRUMP TONIGHT. >> THEM UP THE WAY HE TALKS ABOUT IMMIGRANTS OFFENDS ME. I LIVE IN THE MOST DIVERSE STATE IN THE WORLD'S MOST DIVERSE DEMOCRACY. 27 1% OF MY STATE IS FOR BOARD. IT'S NOT A QUESTION OF TOLERATING THAT WE CELEBRATE. IT'S A POINT OF PRIDE. WE PRACTICE PLURALISM THE WAY HE TALKS ABOUT IMMIGRANTS. WE TALKED DOWN TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IN TERMS OF WHAT MAKES THIS COURT THIS NATION'S SO GREAT AND THAT'S OUR CAPACITY TO LIVE TOGETHER ADVANCE TOGETHER ACROSS OUR DIFFERENCES. THESE ARE FUNDAMENTAL. IT'S NOT ABOUT ONE QUICK PLAY. IT'S ABOUT ALL OF THE THINGS STACKED TOGETHER THAT REPRESENT NOT ONLY WHAT HE SAID TONIGHT BUT WHAT HE SAID OVER HIS ENTIRE CAREER. HE DOESN'T HAVE YOUR BACK PERIOD. FULL STOP. WE MUST HAVE THE BACK OF THE PRESIDENT'S STATES. JOE BIDEN AT THIS CRITICAL MOMENT AND FOCUS ON TOMORROW. FOCUS ON THE FUTURE. FOCUS ON THE VISION, A COMPELLING VISION THAT WILL UNITE THIS COUNTRY MOVING FORWARD AND TALK ABOUT THE STAKES OF FALLEN SHORT LIBERALISM, LIBERALISM, DAYLIGHT, DARKNESS. >> I'M GOVERNOR. I AM SENSING A SET OF FRUSTRATION WITH THE FORMAT OF THIS DEBATE, THE REDUCTION, THE REDUCTIVE, ITS NATURE OF THE DEBATE, THIS SORT OF CARNIVAL LIKE ATMOSPHERE OF THE DEBATE AND A DESIRE TO GET BACK TO THE ESSENCE OF THE ISSUES AND THE CHOICE TO HEAD FOR THE AMERICAN PUBLIC. HAVING SAID THAT, THERE IS ANOTHER DEBATE SCHEDULES. YEAH. DO YOU THINK THAT JOE BIDEN SHOULD PARTICIPATE? I ABSOLUTELY. >> I MEAN, WE'VE ALL HAD THOSE NIGHTS. ALL OF US, NOT ONE PERSON WATCHING DOESN'T HAVE THOSE NIGHTS. SHE WAS NOT ALL THAT INTO IT, BUT IT'S NOT ABOUT DEBATES. YOU HAVE GOOD MOMENTS AND BAD MOMENTS. YOU WAKE UP THE NEXT DAY IT DUSTED OFF AND YOU MOVE FOR ITS ALL ABOUT RESILIENCY. THAT'S WHAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE OR ABOUT. THAT'S WHAT THE AMERICAN ECONOMY IS ABOUT. THAT'S WHAT JOE BIDEN HAS BEEN ABOUT HIS ENTIRE LIFE. I'VE SEEN THIS OVER AND OVER THIS MOVIE BEFORE JOE BIDEN TO PACK IT UP IN THE PRIMARIES. HE'S GOT NO CHANCE AFTER IOWA. HE NEVER GIVES UP. NEVER GIVING UP. FIGHTING FOR US, FIGHTING FOR DEMOCRACY, OUR FUTURE KIDS, OUR GRANDKIDS. SO WE'VE GOT TO HAVE HIS BACK IN THIS RESPECT. AND YEAH, I HOPE HE DOES COME BACK AND I HOPE HE'S BACK ON THE STAGE AND ANOTHER DEBATE, ABSOLUTELY. >> WELL, IF HE IS, I'M SURE WE'RE GOING TO WANT TO TALK TO OFFER THAT TO GOVERNOR. I KNOW YOU HAVE A BUSY DAY JOB. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME TONIGHT. WE REALLY VERY, VERY DEEPLY APPRECIATE GREAT TO BE WITH YOU. THANKS BACK TO RACHEL. >> ALEX, 5 NORTH CALIFORNIA GOVERNOR GAVIN NEWSOM, MANY THANKS TO YOU BOTH. JEFF, LET'S BRING IN SOMEBODY WHO IS OPERATING AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND STILL HAS MANY, MANY CONTACTS THERE AND HAS BEEN TALKING TO PEOPLE FOR US SO WE CAN FIND AT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THOSE CIRCLES. MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST PRESIDENT OBAMA'S CAMPAIGN MANAGER IN 2008 DAVID PLATT IS WITH US. DAVID, I KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN TALKING TO SOME OF THE MC'S IN DEMOCRATIC POLITICS, INCLUDING WHAT WE GENERALLY CALL THE DONOR CLASS. WHAT WAS YOUR PERSONAL DAVID PLOUFFE TAKE ON WHAT YOU SAW TONIGHT AND WHAT ARE YOU HEARING FROM THE PEOPLE YOU'VE BEEN SPEAKING WITH? >> WELL, I THINK CONSISTENT WITH YOUR REACTION, RACHEL AND OTHERS ON THE PANEL. IT'S KIND OF A DEF CON ONE MOMENT. I DO THING, LAWRENCE AND CHRIS, GIVE A VERY IMPORTANT CAVEAT. LISTEN, I'VE BEEN DEEPLY INVOLVED IN PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN DEBATE SOMEWHAT. WELL, SOME DIDN'T GO WELL. THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS AND YOU WON'T REALLY KNOW FOR 3 OR 4 DAYS IS HOW THE VOTERS THAT WILL DECIDE THIS ELECTION WILL REACT. I WOULD ALSO ADD I HAVE DEEP SUSPICION THAT DONALD TRUMP WITH SWING VOTERS BOMBED AS WELL. AND THAT'S THE TRAGEDY BECAUSE I THINK JOE BIDEN, THE BIGGEST THING IN THIS ELECTION IS VOTERS CONCERNS AND ITS POST SWING VOTERS IN BASEBALL YEARS WITH HIS AGE AND THOSE ARE COMPOUNDED TONIGHT. SO WHAT THE CAMPAIGN IS GOING TO DO IS TRY AND RUN ADS BY KNOW, GO OUT TOMORROW AND THE NEXT DAY BEING AGGRESSIVE. I MEAN, IT WASN'T JUST AS CRAZY AS AND HIS ALLIES, ALTHOUGH THAT WAS APPARENT IN EVERY QUESTION LIKE DONALD TRUMP WOULDN'T EVEN ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT CHILD CARE FOR THE OPIOID CRISIS. YOU KNOW, TALK ABOUT SOMEONE IS CONSUMED WITH HIMSELF, WHICH IS WHAT THE MESSAGE THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN WANTED TO LAND. BUT THE CONCERN LEVEL IS QUITE HIGH. THIS IS A RACE THAT IT REMINDS ME A LITTLE BIT OF 2012, BUT IN REVERSE WE HAD A A SMALL FIX SIGNIFICANTLY IMPORTANT LEAD IN BATTLEGROUND STATES. WE ARE REALLY BAD FIRST DEBATE RACE TIGHTEN, BUT WE'RE OK, BIDEN IS BEHIND EARLY RIGHT NOW. HE'S THE ONE THAT HAS TO CHANGE THE EQUATION HERE AND THE BIGGEST BARRIER THAT'S KEEPING HIS CEILING TOO LOW. THIS CONCERNS ABOUT AGE. AND I THINK THAT'S A TRAGEDY BECAUSE I THINK TRUMP HAD SO MANY OPENINGS THAT YOU COULD HAVE JUST SAYS ERDEM UPON TONIGHT. AND BIDEN DID HAVE A COUPLE OF GOOD MOMENTS. BUT I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE OVERWHELMING REACTION, AGAIN, IT DOESN'T MATTER QUITE FRANKLY, WHAT PEOPLE LIKE US SAY, IT'S WHAT VOTERS SAY AND IF THEY ARE ALREADY CONCERNED ABOUT IS THE F WORD IN A WAY I THINK ABOUT IT IS SADLY THIS REALLY PAINS ME TO SAY THIS. THERE ARE 3 YEARS APART. THEY SEEMED ABOUT 30 YEARS APART TONIGHT. AND I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE THE THING THAT VOTERS REALLY WRESTLE WITH COMING OUT OF THIS. >> AND DAVID, IN TERMS OF PEOPLE IN DEMOCRATIC POLITICS AND PEOPLE WHO ARE HAVE THE KIND OF INFLUENCE THAT DONORS HAVE IN DEMOCRATIC POLITICS, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A THERE'S A PHD THESIS TO BE DONE RIGHT THERE. EVEN IN THE PREMISE OF THIS QUESTION, WHAT KIND OF REACTIONS ARE YOU HEARING IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY WHAT CHANGES THEY WANT TO SEE, WHAT SORT OF WHAT'S THE REACTION THEY WANT TO SEE FROM FROM TEAM BIDEN IN RESPONSE TO WHAT HAPPENED THE NIGHT? >> WELL, RACHEL, I MEAN, THERE'S REALLY ONLY 2 SCENARIOS. ONE WHICH IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, WILL BE TOWED. I DECIDE TO STEP DOWN. AND WE HAVE A FASCINATING 7 WEEK CAMPAIGN TO GET THE SUPPORT OF DELEGATES IN CHICAGO. THE ONLY OTHER OPTION IS SOMEHOW TO RIGHT THE SHIP HERE. THEY'RE NOW. I THINK I'M NOT SURE WHETHER TRUMP WILL DEBATE AGAIN. FASCINATING. HE MAY THINK THIS ONE WILL FORM. HE WANTS ANOTHER ONE. YOU CAN CERTAINLY SEE HIM SAYING I'M DONE. I'M NOT GOING TO DO THIS AGAIN. SO THAT IS A HUGE QUESTION, MARK, BECAUSE BIDEN NEEDS THAT NEXT DEBATE NOW. BUT ALL YOU CAN DO IF YOU'RE A DEMOCRAT IS ASK YOURSELF WHAT I CAN DO, WHICH IS YEAH, WE MISSED AN OPPORTUNITY HERE TONIGHT, A SIGNIFICANT OPPORTUNITY, BUT IT'S STILL A CLOSE RACE AND YOU'RE RUNNING AGAINST DONALD TRUMP. AGAIN, I THINK THIS WILL COME OUT. BUT, YOU KNOW, I'VE TALKED TO PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING DIAL GROUPS AND FOCUS GROUPS OF FOLKS WITH SWING VOTERS AND AS MUCH AS THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT BIDEN'S PERFORMANCE AND THEY WERE, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE NO ONE WAS SAYING I REALLY EXCITED ABOUT DONALD TRUMP COMING BACK TO THE ERIE CONFIRMED ALL THE REASONS THEY VOTED AGAINST HIM IN 2020 AND A GUY LOOK AT THAT AS A HUGE MISSED OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE HE REALLY PROVIDED A LOT OF OPENINGS, I THINK, FOR BIDEN OR ANY CANDIDATE TO REALLY EXACERBATE THAT. SO I THINK DEMOCRATS WILL SPEND 24 48 72 HOURS, YOU KNOW, IN SOME STATE OF CRISIS. BUT THEN WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY FORWARD. BUT, YOU KNOW, THIS WAS OBVIOUSLY A SIGNIFICANT MOMENT. IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT EVENTS OF THE CAMPAIGN AND THEREFORE, AS A MISSED OPPORTUNITY. >> THERE IS NO ONE SCORE CARD FOR DETERMINING WHO WON AND WHO LOST LAST NIGHT. BUT A CONSENSUS DOES SEEM TO BE EMERGING. ROSS PEROT THE START OF THE NIGHT, PARTLY BECAUSE NO ONE KNEW WHAT TO EXPECT. BILL CLINTON JUST GOOD ENOUGH. AND PRESIDENT BUSH WILL HAVE TO DO MUCH BETTER. >> WAS OCTOBER 1992, GEORGE HW BUSH, POPPY BUSH WAS PRESIDENT. HE WAS RUNNING FOR REELECTION AND AT THE FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE THAT YEAR, HE ABSOLUTELY BOMBS. IF THAT TOM BROKAW STANDUP WAS NOT ENOUGH TO CONVINCE TO CHECK OUT THE HEADLINE IN THE BOSTON HERALD THE NEXT DAY, BUSH STRIKES OUT A SNAP POLL TAKEN AFTER THE DEBATE ON THE PERCENTAGE OF VOTERS WHO THOUGHT PRESIDENT BUSH HAD WON. THE DEBATE WAS IN THE TEENS AS 18%. THAT FIRST DEBATE WENT VERY TERRIBLY FOR POPPY BUSH. AND INDEED, HE WENT ON TO LOSE HIS EFFORT TO BE RE-ELECTED 1992. BUT LOOK AT THE REST OF THE DATA HERE THAT THE FIRST DEBATE ALSO WENT TERRIBLY FOR POPPY BUSH'S SON IN 2004 WHEN HE WAS LOOKING FOR A SECOND TERM RUNNING FOR REELECTION AGAINST JOHN KERRY. REVIEWS OF HIS FIRST DEBATE PERFORMANCE MORE. >> JUST AS BRUTAL AS THE LINES HAVE BEEN FOR HIS DEATH LIKE THIS ONE FROM THE ATLANTIC. QUOTE, THAT WAS GEORGE BUSH'S WORST PERFORMANCE IN A DEBATE BY FAR EVER. MY MONSTER HAD BEEN NEITHER BUSH NOR KERRY HAD EVER LOST A DEBATE THAT IS NO LONGER TRUE. GEORGE W BUSH'S APPROVAL RATING A WEEK BEFORE THAT DEBATE WAS AS HIGH AS 54% AFTER HIS TERRIBLE PERFORMANCE IN THAT FIRST DEBATE. IT DROPPED 7 POINTS JUST FROM THAT ONE DEBATE. BUT OF COURSE, HE WENT ON TO WIN RE-ELECTION ANYWAY IN 2004 THAT THAT WAS WHAT HAPPENED TO PRESIDENT OBAMA IN 2012, AGAIN, LOOKING FOR A SECOND TERM RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION UP AGAINST HIS OPPONENT, MITT ROMNEY. THE FIRST DEBATE THAT YEAR A DISASTER FOR THE INCUMBENT PRESIDENT. THE HEADLINES ARE UNANIMOUS. OBAMA SNOOZE IS AND LOSES FROM THE WAS HUNGRY OF ALMOST FLAT. MITT ROMNEY COMES OUT ON TOP AS OBAMA STUMBLES AND FIRST DEBATE. OBAMA HAD A 9 POINT LEAD IN THE POLLS IN SEPTEMBER 2012 AFTER HIS TERRIBLE PERFORMANCE IN OCTOBER. HE ENDED UP TIED WITH ROMNEY IN THE POLLS. >> BUT THAT OBAMA WON ELECTION IN NOVEMBER AND GOT A SECOND TERM. >> REGARDLESS OF THE EVENTUAL ELECTORAL OUTCOME, IT IS ALMOST AN AXIOM OF POLITICS THAT FIRST DEBATES ARE ROCKY FOR INCUMBENT PRESIDENTS. NOW, WHY IS THAT? WHAT IS IT ABOUT BEING AN INCUMBENT PRESIDENT THAT MAKES YOU S*** AT YOUR FIRST DEBATE WHEN YOU'RE RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION? I DON'T KNOW. LOTS OF COMPETING EXPLANATIONS OUT THERE, BUT IT DOES SEEM TO BE SOMETHING THAT UNIVERSALLY HOMES. I WILL ALSO MENTION THAT DONALD TRUMP WAS NO EXCEPTION WHEN HE WAS THE INCUMBENT 4 YEARS AGO. IT'S NOT THAT LONG AGO. I'M SURE YOU REMEMBER HOW THAT WENT FOR HIM. BUT I THINK THIS HEADLINE AT THE GUARDIAN SUMS IT UP. WELL, THIS IS AFTER THE FIRST DEBATE WITH THE DONALD TRUMP IS THE INCUMBENT AND JOE BIDEN AS THE CHALLENGER. QUOTE, DONALD TRUMP IN SUGARS. FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE IS NATIONAL HUMILIATION. ALWAYS THE CASE. AND TONIGHT JOE BIDEN WAS THE 9TH INCUMBENT PRESIDENT IN A TELEVISED GENERAL ELECTION DEBATE. HE AND HIS TEAM VERY, VERY, VERY MUCH WANTED TO DEFY THE DEBATING INCUMBENT CURSE. THEY DID NOT DEFINE HAHA THINKERS SETS LOSING THE FIRST DEBATE IS NOT A FATAL THING FOR INCUMBENT PRESIDENTS. IT IS A HISTORICAL CERTAINTY THAT THEY LOSE THE FIRST DEBATE BUT IN TERMS OF ITS OVERALL ELECTORAL IMPACT, HISTORY SAYS NEXT. JOINING US NOW IS FORMER REPUBLICAN PARTY CHAIRMAN, THE CO-HOST OF THE WEEKEND HERE ON MSNBC, OUR BELOVED FRIEND MICHAEL STEELE. MISTER STILL, IT IS GREAT TO SEE YOU. >> HOW ARE YOU DOING? MY FRIEND TONIGHT. EVERYBODY RESTED AND RARING TO GO. RIGHT. WE ARE HYDRATED. >> WE DID OUR WEIRD YOGA POSES THAT MAKE OUR BACKS HER LAST. WHEN WE SIT HERE FOR 6 HOURS AT A TIME, WE'RE GREAT. WHAT DID YOU THINK OF THE DEBATE AND WHAT DO YOU WHAT YOU'VE BEEN HEARING FROM PEOPLE TONIGHT INSIDE? >> SO I HAVE THOUGHTS AND I'LL START WITH WHERE YOU LEFT OFF. EVERYTHING YOU SAID ABOUT THOSE OTHER PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES ARE AS ABSOLUTELY 100% CORRECT. BUT WHAT YOU DID NOT HAVE AFTER THEM WAS THE INCUMBENT PRESIDENT'S PARTY OPENLY MUSING ABOUT TAKING HIM OFF THE TICKET. AND I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS VERY DIFFERENT IN THIS ONE. TONIGHT. YOU HAVE AKA GLOATING AND DEMOCRATS OUTWARDLY WORRYING ABOUT THE STATE OF THE RACE TO THE POINT THAT THEY ARE NOT HIDING THEIR DISCUSSIONS ABOUT HOW THEY GET JOE OFF THE TICKET. I THINK A LOT OF THAT IS UNFORTUNATE. I THINK A LOT OF THAT IS OVERBLOWN AT THE MOMENT. BUT I GET THE EMOTION. I THOUGHT CLAIR WAS OF THE EXHIBIT OF THAT EMOTION, THAT GUT PUNCH THAT SHE REFERENCED OF THAT A LOT OF DEMOCRATS ARE FEELING. BUT HERE ARE A COUPLE THINGS THAT I THINK NEED TO BE FOCUSED ON JUST KIND OF PUTTING MY SO CAMPAIGN PARTY AND ON. AND SO TO RALLY THE TROOPS BEING, YOU KNOW, GET YOUR A** IN GEAR CONVERSATION. ONE IS NICOLE SAID IT BEST ON TONIGHT. DON'T PRETEND IT WAS SOMETHING IT WASN'T SIT DOWN WITH JOE. PLAY THAT TAPE. PLAY IT AND SLOW MO THAT SUCKER IF YOU HAVE TO TO GET HIM TO APPRECIATE EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS WE SAW AND HOW HE PERFORMED AND HOW AND IN MANY RESPECTS HE LET HIMSELF DOWN BECAUSE OF ANY OF US KNOW THE PRESIDENT AND A LOT OF US DO IT. SEEN HIM OVER THESE MANY, MANY YEARS. WE KNOW HOW MUCH SHE REGARDS BEING HONEST ABOUT THAT. SO LET HIM BE HONEST ABOUT THAT AND HAVE THAT ASSESSMENT AND TAKE HIM OUT OF SITUATIONS WHERE HE SEEMINGLY LYING ABOUT HIS PERFORMANCE. HE WILL ENDEAR HIMSELF. >> HE WILL. HE WILL MOVE PEOPLE TO APPRECIATE. >> A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT HIM IF HE OWNS THE MOMENT. I THOUGHT, FOR EXAMPLE, LAWRENCE WAS ALSO VERY CLEAR IN HOW THIS THING NEEDS TO GET LAID OUT AGAIN. YOU KNOW, DON'T OVER. THINK WHAT HAPPENED. RETHINK HOW YOU MOVE FORWARD. RE. IMAGINE WHAT TOMORROW LOOKS LIKE BY TOMORROW. I MEAN, MORNING JOE TOMORROW. ALL RIGHT. AND REALLY BEGIN TO PUT IN PLACE THE NEXT SET OF BUILDING BLOCKS BECAUSE RIGHT NOW DOES ON THE RUN. THEY GOT THIS BABY AND YOU SHOULD SEE AND HEAR THE STUFF THAT'S COMING UP, RIGHT? THEY ARE. THEY ARE PRIME. THEY'RE READY. THEY'RE LIKE WE TOLD YOU THIS IS WHAT HE WAS. JOE BIDEN IS OLD AND NOT A DAY. DONALD TRUMP IS THE MAN ALL OF THAT CRAZY. BUT DONALD TRUMP IS A SERIAL LIAR. IT'S A PITCH, A LITTLE A BOY IN A MAN'S ORANGE SUIT. RIGHT? AND HE SITS HERE AND HE TELLS LIFE TO LIVE TO LIVE TO LIE. JOE BIDEN TO JEN JEN PSAKI'S POINT WAS NOT PREPARED TO DEAL WITH THAT. AND HE WAS ILL PREPARED BECAUSE HE WAS FED NUMBERS INSTEAD OF DOING WHAT I'VE SAID FROM THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE DAY I WAS ON MORNING JOE IS THAT JOE BIDEN WOULD BE THE NOMINEE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY BECAUSE JOE BIDEN IS HIS BEST. WHEN HE IS JOE BIDEN. THEY FORGOT THAT HIS CAMPAIGN FORGOT THAT THEY PUT THAT COULD KUHN AROUND HIM AS PRESIDENT AND FACT HIM UP WITH ALL THESE FACTS AND NUMBERS AND THE MAN GOT LOST. AND SO THERE'S SOME THINGS THAT ARE RECOVERABLE HERE. BUT THEY HAVE TO FIRST START TO OWN THE MOMENT AND, YOU KNOW, REALLY KIND OF DO THAT BY PUSHING THE VICE PRESIDENT OUT THERE. I THINK I THINK THE PRESIDENT AT SOME POINT HAS A LOOK AMERICAN-OWNED UP SILENT. YOU DOUBT SHOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER PREPARED. AND YOU KNOW ME BETTER THAN THAT, YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S NOT HOW MY PARENTS RAISED ME. AND THAT'S NOT HOW I'M GOING TO LEAD YOU. AND I THINK THAT MOMENT. SO THAT TAKES WHAT HAPPENED WITH DONALD TRUMP. BECAUSE GUESS WHAT, THAT, RACHEL, ALL OF A SUDDEN ALL THE STUFF THAT WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT WE HEARD AND SAW SAW WITH DONALD TRUMP, KABUL COMES BACK AND REFOCUS AGAINST TO BE PEOPLE. GET A LOOK AT A GALA. YEAH. NOW I THINK ABOUT IT. DONALD TRUMP SAYS SOME CRAZY BEHIND STAFF, RIGHT? SO I THINK THAT THIS THIS IS DEMOCRATS NEED TO, YOU KNOW, BRINGING DOW STOP THE STOP THE A LOOK. LET ME TELL YOU WHAT I'M HEARING FROM OPERATIVES AND OTHERS AND JUST RESET. MICHAEL STEELE. >> TOUGH LOVE. WE ALWAYS GET TOUGH. LOVE FROM YOU, MICHAEL. THANK YOU SO MUCH. ALL RIGHT. JOINING US NOW FROM THE DEBATE SPIN ROOM IN ATLANTA AS OUR BELOVED HOW FORMER U.S. SENATOR CLAIRE MCCASKILL OF MISSOURI. ALSO AN MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST, CLAIRE OF DYING TO KNOW WHAT YOU THOUGHT ABOUT HOW THINGS WENT TONIGHT. WHAT YOU'VE BEEN HEARING SINCE. >> WELL, FIRST, THE EASY PART. DONALD TRUMP IS A LIAR, A FLAWED CHARACTER MEAN A J*** VERY UNLIKABLE. AND THAT WAS OBVIOUS TONIGHT. NOW THE HARD AND HEARTBREAKING PART. I HAVE BEEN A SURROGATE FOR SOME PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES IN MY TIME. I KNOW WHAT THE JOB IS AFTER A DEBATE OF A SURROGATE. I'VE NEVER WANTED TO BE A SURROGATE MORE THAN I DO RIGHT NOW. BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE A SURROGATE, YOU HAVE TO ITS FOCUS ON THE POSITIVES. BUT I HAVE SAID VERY CLEARLY AND VERY PLAINLY ON THIS NETWORK AND MY JOB NOW IS TO BE REALLY HONEST. JOE BIDEN HAD ONE THING YOU HAVE TO DO TONIGHT AND HE DIDN'T DO IT. HE HAD ONE THING HE HAD TO ACCOMPLISH. AND THAT WAS REASSURE AMERICA THAT HE WAS UP TO THE JOB AT HIS AGE AND HE FAILED AT THAT TONIGHT. NOW, DOES THAT MEAN THAT MY PHONE BLOWING UP WITH SENATORS AND CAMPAIGN OPERATIVES AND DONORS, BIG DONORS FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY? DOES THAT MEAN THAT JOE BIDEN IS NOT GOING TO BE THE CANDIDATE? I DON'T KNOW THAT. I THINK MORE KNOW A LOT MORE IN A FEW WEEKS HOW THIS PLAYS OUT, HOW THE POLLING PLACE OUT. BUT IT I THINK A COUPLE THINGS ARE GOING ON RIGHT NOW. I THINK I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHOSE HEART IS BREAKING RIGHT NOW. THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WATCH THIS TONIGHT AND FELT TERRIBLY FOR JOE BIDEN. AND, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO ASK, HOW DID WE GET HERE? HOW DO WE GET TO THE POINT THAT WE'RE SPENDING A WHOLE LOT OF TIME TALKING ABOUT THE VICE PRESIDENT TONIGHT INSTEAD OF TALKING ABOUT THE PRESIDENT AND I I DON'T KNOW HOW THE REST OF THE STORY IS WRITTEN. I DON'T KNOW IF THINGS CAN BE DONE TO FIX THIS. THEY MIGHT. AND IN A TRUMP IS SO TERRIBLE THAT IT THIS MIGHT HEAL ITSELF. BUT I BASED ON WHAT I'M HEARING FROM A LOT OF PEOPLE AND SOME OF THEM ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN HIGH ELECTIVE OFFICES IN THIS COUNTRY AND YOU MIGHT GUESS WHERE THEY SERVE. THERE IS A LOT OF IT MORE THAN HANDWRINGING TONIGHT. I DO THINK PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THAT WE'RE CONFRONTING A CRISIS. >> I WANT TO TALK TO ABOUT THIS IN VERY NUTS AND BOLTS TERMS. GIVEN WHAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING, THE KIND OF REACTION THAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING AMONG PEOPLE IN THE KINDS OF POSITIONS THAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING ARE AT LEAST ALLUDING TO WHAT CAN BE DONE. WHAT DO YOU PERSONALLY THINK SHOULD BE DONE? >> WELL, I THINK, LISTEN, AND THIS COULD BE A SITUATION WHERE EVERYONE TALKS IT OUT OVER THE NEXT FEW DAYS. I DO THINK THAT THIS IS A TIME THAT TED KAUFMAN AND MACHETE AND DONLON AND RON KLAIN, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE A HEART TO HEART WITH THE PRESIDENT ABOUT HIS ABILITY TO EXUDE STRENGTH. AND LISTEN, NOBODY'S A BIGGER FAN OF KAMALA HARRIS AND I AM. AND AND YOU KNOW, AND AND GAVIN NEWSOM GIVEN A REMARKABLE JOB TONIGHT AS A SURROGATE AND WHAT HE SAID, OH, YOU KNOW, IT WAS SOMETHING I DISAGREE WITH ANYTHING THERE, SAINT, BUT THOSE 2 PEOPLE ARE SIGNALING TO A WHOLE LOT OF AMERICANS ARE PAYING ATTENTION COME. THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY DOESN'T HAVE THEM AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET INSTEAD OF USING THEM TO SHORE UP WHAT HAVE BECOME AFTER TONIGHT, SOME PRETTY GLARING WEAKNESSES IN OUR IN OUR PRESENT. >> BUT I MEAN, IT'S SPECIFICALLY, THOUGH, I MEAN, GIVEN THAT WE ARE 130 DAYS OUT. >> AND THE DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION IS VERY, VERY, VERY LATE. AND PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS BEEN CONFRONTED WITH THESE KINDS OF QUESTIONS FROM THE VERY BEGINNING OF THIS CAMPAIGN, ACTUALLY, FROM BEFORE THE BEGINNING OF THIS CAMPAIGN. AS SOON AS HE WAS SWORN IN, PEOPLE STARTED TALKING ABOUT, SAY, YOU KNOW, SAY NOW THAT YOU WON'T, YOU WON'T YOU WON'T RUN AGAIN. AND HE'S BEEN FROM THAT. HE'S THE GUY. AND IF HE'S NOT GOING TO KNOW HE'S GOING TO PUSH HIM, I'M THE TYPE OF CRISIS IN YOUR WORDS THAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING HOUSE TO HAVE A RESOLUTION. AND IF THE RESOLUTION IS NOT GOING TO BE THAT VICE, THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN IS GOING TO LEAVE THE TICKET, WHAT ELSE CAN BE WHAT ELSE CAN BE DONE? WHAT ELSE CAN BE CHANGED ABOUT THE CAMPAIGN? ARE YOU SAYING THE ONLY SOLUTION IS TO TAKE HIM OFF THE TICKET? >> NO, I I I'M I'M I I DON'T KNOW HONESTLY WHAT THE SOLUTION IS TONIGHT. I KNOW HOW THIS FELT TONIGHT. IT FELT LIKE A GUT PUNCH TO MOST PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY WHO ARE PAYING CLOSE ATTENTION AND KNOW HOW DANGEROUS DONALD TRUMP IS TO ALL THE VALUES WE HOLD DEAR. AND SO I THINK IT WILL TAKE A COUPLE OF DAYS FOR PEOPLE RECOVER FROM THE GUT PUNCH. BUT THERE WILL BE LEADERS THAT HAVE THE ABILITY TO TALK TO THE PRESIDENT. I THINK THE PRESIDENT'S FAMILY WOULD WOULD GET INVOLVED IF IT ACTUALLY GOT TO THAT POINT, IT MAY BE THAT YOU CAN REPAIR THIS DAMAGE. MAYBE HE CAN COME OUT AND SHOW MORE VIGOR AND SHOWED THE ABILITY TO REALLY STAY ON TRACK. BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE SOME MOMENTS TONIGHT THAT ALL OF US, OUR HOLDING OUR BREATH. AND THAT'S NOT THE KIND OF THING YOU WANT TO HAPPEN 130 DAYS OUT FROM AN ELECTION WHEN YOU'VE GOT DONALD TRUMP ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE EQUATION, RIGHT? SENATOR CLAIRE MCCASKILL, VERY GOOD TO HAVE YOU WITH US TONIGHT. THANK YOU, MY FRIEND.