Once you ‘hitch your wagon to Laura Loomer’s car, you’re stuck’: Lowell on Trump’s new associate

SPENDING TIME WITH FOLKS IN THE COMMUNITIES WHERE THEY LIVE, AND SO, THAT IS WHY I AM HERE. WE ARE GOING TO BE SPENDING A LOT MORE TIME IN PENNSYLVANIA. >> THE VOTING HAS ALREADY BEGUN. YOU HAVE GOT TO GO OUT AND VOTE. YOU'VE GOT TO VOTE. THIS IS GOING TO BE THE MOST IMPORTANT VOTE IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY. >> JOINING ME NOW, HUGO LOWELL, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT WITH THE GUARDIAN. GOOD TO SEE YOU, HUGO. LET'S TALK ABOUT THE GROWING CONCERN AMONG REPUBLICANS ABOUT FAR RIGHT ACTIVIST, LAURA LOOMER'S APPARENT INFLUENCE ON DONALD TRUMP. YOU COVERED THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN EXTENSIVELY, YOU HAVE BEEN DOWN TO MAR-A-LAGO WHERE SHE HAS SPENT A FAIR AMOUNT OF TIME. HOW DO YOU INTERPRET HER PRESENCE THERE, AND NOW ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL? AND WHAT DO YOU THINK HER RELATIONSHIP WITH TRUMP IS ALL ABOUT? >> THE THING THAT THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN LIKES ABOUT LAURA LOOMER -- AND TRULY, SOME OF THE OPERATIVES INSIDE IT -- IS THEY THINK SHE DOES GOOD OFFER RESEARCH. THAT IS HER FUNCTION. SHE IS NOT A PAID EMPLOYEE OF THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN, FOR VARIOUS REASONS, INCLUDING SUSIE WILDE, THE PARENT CAMPAIGN CHIEF, THINKING SHE IS TOO CONTROVERSIAL EVEN FOR THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN. BUT, THE WAY I SEE LOOMER, SHE IS A BIT OF A DRUG FOR TRUMP. HE LIKES THE FACT THAT SHE IS SUPER LOYAL, HE LOVES THE FACT THAT SHE WILL BACK FOR HIM ANYTIME HE NEEDS HER TO, AND THEY DO LIKE HER WORK IN THE MAIN. THE PROBLEM WITH LAURA LOOMER'S WORK PRODUCT, IS IT IS ONLY RIGHT 8% OF THE TIME, SO THE CAMPAIGN FINDS ITSELF IN THIS TRICKY POSITION, WHERE THIS ISSUE OF HAITIAN IMMIGRANTS EATING PETS, THEY GET SUCKED INTO THIS VORTEX, AND IT IS DIFFICULT TO DISTRACT THEMSELVES, BECAUSE ONCE YOU HITCH YOUR WAGON TO LAURA LOOMER'S CAR, YOU ARE STUCK WITH IT, AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM YOU ARE SEEING THIS WEEK. >> SO, THE WAY THAT THEY WERE TAKING CUES ON MIGRANT LIES FROM HER, ISN'T THROUGH SOCIAL MEDIA FEEDS? I MEAN, HOW DID THAT WORK? >> IT IS NOT EXACTLY CLEAR WHAT LAURA LOOMER'S DIRECT ROLE WAS IN THE HAITIAN IMMIGRANTS EATING PETS EPISODE, AT LEAST. BUT, SHE IS ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO IS CONSTANTLY DIGGING UP A LOT OF THIS SORT OF MATERIAL, BECAUSE THE CAMPAIGN'S MESSAGE IS THAT EVERY STATE IS A BORDER STATE. THAT IS WHAT THEY WERE TRYING TO CONNECT THE IMMIGRANT STORY TWO. TRUMP ACTUALLY HAD PLANNED THIS, THEY HAD PLANNED FOR THIS IMMIGRANT STORY TO COME UP, AND TRUMP WAS SUPPOSED TO SAY, HEY, BY THE WAY, THIS IS BECAUSE OF HARRIS' BORDERS. THE PROBLEM WITH THE PLAN, IS IT REQUIRES THE NEED TO EXECUTE IT, AND TRUMP GOT STUCK ARGUING WITH DAVID MUIR, THE ABC NEWS MODERATOR, WHETHER OR NOT THE STORY WAS EVEN TRUE, SO THAT WAS PART OF THE PROBLEM. BUT, THIS HAS COME THROUGH MUCH MORE CHANNELS AND I THINK THIS IS THE PROBLEM THAT THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN NOW HAS WITH LESS THAN 60 DAYS UNTIL THE ELECTION, WHICH IS THAT WE HAVE ALL OF THESE OUTSIDE SOURCES, WE HAVE MULTIPLE ENTRY POINTS INTO THE TRUMP WORLD. FOR INSTANCE, WE KNOW THAT LAURA LOOMER, AND HAVE REPORTED THAT LAURA LOOMER IS ONE OF THE PRINCIPAL GATEKEEPERS OF TRUMP, IN TERMS OF STORIES, AND SOCIAL MEDIA POSTS. SO, IT MAY HAVE BEEN -- IF LAURA LOOMER HERSELF TEXTED TRUMP SOMETHING, OR IF IT WAS ONE OF TRUMP'S AIDES, WHO FORWARDED TRUMP SOMETHING THAT SHE TWEETED OR SOMETHING SHE HAD DUG UP. THE POINT IS, THERE ARE MULTIPLE ENTRY POINTS TO TRUMP AND THIS IS THE CAMPAIGN PROBLEM THAT THEY HAVE TO DEAL WITH. >> I GUESS I'M WONDERING, WHY DOES SHE NOW SHOW UP IN HIS ENTOURAGE? SHE IS ON HIS PLANE AT THE DEBATE, SHE IS AT THE SEPTEMBER 11th COMMEMORATION SERVICES THIS WEEK, EVEN THOUGH SHE IS A 9/11 DENIER AND CONSPIRACY THEORIST, SAYING IT WAS AN INSIDE JOB. I MEAN, HOW DID SHE RISE TO SUCH PROMINENCE IN HIS CAMPAIGN? IS IT DIRECTLY THROUGH DONALD TRUMP? DID HE GET EXPOSURE AND HE SAID, I LIKE HER, I WANT TO KEEP HER AROUND? >> AS FAR AS WE UNDERSTAND IT, THERE WAS AN INTRODUCTION ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, FROM ONE OF BENIN'S TOP LIEUTENANTS, WHO BASICALLY INTRODUCED HER TO THE TWO TOP TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISERS, JASON BYRNE, AND CHRISTOPH AVEDA. AT THE TIME, LAURA LOOMER WAS GETTING SUCKED INTO DOING STUFF FOR KANYE WEST, IF YOU REMEMBER, THIS WAS AROUND THE TIME OF THE NICK FUENTES DINNER. WHAT SHE REALLY WANTED TO DO WAS DO RESEARCH FOR THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND THERE WAS A LOOK AT WHETHER SHE COULD FILL A MORE FORMAL ROLE. ULTIMATELY, BECAUSE SHE IS SUCH A BOMB THROWER, SHE STRUGGLES TO KEEP HER MOUTH SHUT, THIS NEVER MATERIALIZED, BUT THAT WAS THE ORIGIN STORY OF LAURA LOOMER, AND THAT IS KIND OF HER ONGOING RELATIONSHIP WITH TRUMP. THE REASON SHE IS ON THE PLANE, IS IN PART, BECAUSE SHE IS NOT AN EMPLOYEE. THE WAY IT HAS BEEN DESCRIBED TO ME, IS TRUMP FEELS LIKE, LAURA, YOU ARE NOT A PART OF THE CAMPAIGN, BUT WE REVALUE YOU, SO LET ME REPAY YOU BY TAKING YOU ON THIS TRIP, ESPECIALLY FOR THIS DEBATE, A BIG MOMENT FOR ME. >> SO, SOME OF THE POSTDEBATE REPORTING SUGGESTS THAT TRUMP'S OWN PERCEPTION OF HIS PERFORMANCE IS REALLY UNTETHERED TO REALITY. YOU KNOW MANY CLOSE TO TRUMP, REASONABLY WELL. IS THAT ACTUALLY HOW HE SEES IT, OR WHAT HE WANTS PEOPLE TO BELIEVE? BECAUSE AXIAL SUGGESTS TRUMP'S INNER CIRCLE LIES TO HIM. DO THEY HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LIE TO HIM? >> I MEAN, I THINK THE SHORT ANSWER IS YES. AS WE REPORTED, WHEN TRUMP CAME OUT OF THE ROOM, AND ASKED HIS AIDES, HOW DID I DO? SOME OF THEM ACTUALLY TOLD HIM, THEY THOUGHT IT WAS GREAT TO HIS FACE. BUT, IT IS ABUNDANTLY CLEAR AT THIS POINT THAT EVEN TRUMP'S ADVISERS KNOW THAT DEBATE PERFORMANCE WAS BAD. THE THING WITH THESE GUYS, WHEN THEY START TRYING TO SPIN YOU IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DEBATE. I WAS FIELDING TEXTS FROM SOME TRUMP CAMPAIGN OFFICIALS WHO WERE SAYING, HE IS NOT EVEN ANGRY, HE IS NOT YELLING, WHAT DEBATE ARE YOU WATCHING? AND I THINK THAT WAS THE EARLY INDICATION THAT THINGS WERE GOING OFF THE RAILS. LATER, PRIVATELY, A NUMBER OF TRUMP OFFICIALS TOLD ME THAT THEY KNOW THAT THAT DEBATE DID NOT CONVINCE ANYONE. THEY SEE IT AS A COLOSSAL MISSED OPPORTUNITY. YOU KNOW, THE BENEFIT WITH UNDECIDED VOTERS, INDEPENDENT VOTERS, VERY, VERY SMALL, IF AT ALL, ANY BENEFIT. AND I THINK THAT IS THE CODE I VIEW, THAT THE CAMPAIGN HAS. WHETHER OR NOT TELLING TRUMP, IS A DIFFERENT STORY. AND I THINK AT THIS POINT, IT MAY NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE TELLING TRUMP, BECAUSE AS WE ALL KNOW IN 2020, IF TRUMP HEARS SOMETHING HE DOESN'T LIKE, HE JUST IGNORES IT. >> YEAH, TRUE. ONE MORE QUICK QUESTION BECAUSE REPUBLICANS ARE ALSO CONCERNED THAT TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN HAS INVESTED FAR FEWER RESOURCES FOR ITS TURNOUT OPERATION IN BATTLEGROUND STATES, THEN PREVIOUS RACES. WHAT IS THIS ABOUT? IT FEELS LIKE A MIST FOR THEM? >> YEAH, THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN HAS OUTSOURCED ITS ENTIRE GROUND OPERATION, EFFECTIVELY, TO A NUMBER OF SUPER PACs IN BATTLEGROUND STATES, WHICH MEANS THAT THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN'S FORMER -- FORMAL PRESENCE IS REALLY, REALLY SMALL. FOR INSTANCE, TAKE PENNSYLVANIA. THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN WOULD RELEASE NUMBERS, BECAUSE AGAIN, WHEN THEY ARE VERY PROUD OF THE NUMBERS, THEY POST ABOUT THEM. AND THE ONLY THING WE COULD GET OUT OF THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN WAS THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME EVER WE HAVE SEEN THAT FROM THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN, SAYING WE HAVE MORE THAN 50 PEOPLE IN PENNSYLVANIA. THAT IS IN STARK COMPARISON TO THE RNC'S PROJECTED GOALS FOR THIS CYCLE, WHICH WAS TO HAVE 88 TO 90 STAFFERS. AND IT IS AN EVEN STARKER DIFFERENCE, COMPARED TO WHAT THE HARRIS CAMPAIGN HAS IN PENNSYLVANIA, BECAUSE THEY HAVE 375 PAID STAFFERS, 375 IS MORE THAN 50, IT IS NOT A VERY GOOD COMPARISON. AND WITH RESPECT TO THE SUPER PACs, THE PROBLEM THAT THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN NOW HAS, IS THAT THESE PACs HAVE ONLY STARTED SPINNING UP IN RECENT WEEKS, WHICH MEANS TWO THINGS. NUMBER ONE, ALL OF THE DOOR KNOCKERS AND CANVASSERS HAVE VERY LIMITED VOTER CONTACTS. YOU KNOW, WE KNOW FROM PREVIOUS CYCLES, THAT IT OFTEN TAKES MULTIPLE, REPEATED VISITS TO VOTERS TO RETURN A BALLOT, THAT IS NUMBER ONE. SECOND OF ALL, THE REALLY GOOD PEOPLE AR