Katy Tur: Presence of Trump allies adds ‘mean girl quality’ to the courtroom

MAKE. YOU MAKE IT IN THE MOMENT. IN THIS CASE, WITH THE WORLD WATCHING. IT'S A TOUGH CALL. >> LET'S BRING IN OUR COLLEAGUE, KATY TUR, WHO HAS BEEN IN THE COURTROOM FOR US AND HAS COME OUT. KATY, TELL US WHAT IT IS LIKE. DESCRIBE THE ATMOSPHERE. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS CROSS-EXAMINATION, PERHAPS GETTING INTO TOO MUCH DETAIL, GOING TOO LONG, AND WHETHER OR NOT THE JURY IS BORED. IF YOU CAN WATCH THE JURY, TELL US WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN. >> Reporter: IT'S SO INTERESTING BEING INSIDE. WHEN YOU ARE READING IT OFF THE DOCUMENT -- I GOT A SENSE THINGS WERE DIFFERENT IN THE COURTROOM, MORE FORCEFUL. TODD BLANCHE IS VERY QUIET. HE IS VERY CALM IN HIS QUESTIONING. ALMOST SERENE. MICHAEL COHEN IS VERY QUIET AS WELL. HE ALMOST SEEMS MEEK, DEFLATED. SORRY FOR THE NEW YORK CITY NOISE. HE HAS KIND OF -- NATURALLY, IT'S RIGHT NEXT TO ME. >> WE CAN HEAR YOU. >> HE HAS A HANGDOG QUALITY TO HIM. ANSWERING MOST OF THE TIME WITH, YES, SIR, NO, SIR, THAT'S CORRECT. HE IS NOT THE MICHAEL COHEN THAT ANYBODY WHO KNOWS HIM KNOWS. THERE WAS A STRIKING MOMENT EARLIER ON IN THE MORNING WHEN -- THIS IS AFTER QUESTIONING BETWEEN BLANCHE AND MICHAEL COHEN, YES, SIR, NO, SIR, THAT'S CORRECT, THAT SOUNDS LIKE ME. SHORT ANSWERS, VERY CALM. THEY PLAYED MICHAEL COHEN'S PODCAST. IN THE PODCAST, HE IS YELLING. HE IS SCREAMING ABOUT HOW MUCH HE WANTS TO SEE DONALD TRUMP IN PRISON AND HOW IT WOULD MAKE HIM FEEL GOOD. THE ENERGY AND THE EMOTION AND THE FORCE WITH WHICH YOU HEAR HIS VOICE IN THIS PODCAST IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE FROM THE MICHAEL COHEN THAT YOU ARE SEEING ON THE STAND. I LOOKED OVER AT THE JURY. MOST OF THEM ARE JUST STONE COLD. NO REACTION WHATSOEVER. THERE WERE A COUPLE WHERE YOU COULD DETECT A SLIGHT SMIRK. FOR THE MOST PART, THE JURY IS PAYING CLOSE ATTENTION. I HAVEN'T REALLY NOTICED ONE INSTANCE WHERE ANYBODY SEEMS TO BE NODDING OFF OR LOSING FOCUS OR ATTENTION. A COUPLE TIMES BEFORE THE LAST BREAK THEY LOOKED OVER AT THE CLOCK. IT WAS NEARING TO A POINT WHERE PEOPLE MIGHT NEED WATER OR A SNACK. THEY HAVE BEEN VER ATTENTIVE TO THE PROCEEDINGS. ANOTHER THING THAT STRUCK ME, WHEN THE JURY WALKS IN, THEY WALK RIGHT BY DONALD TRUMP. THEY WALK BY THE TABLE HE IS SITTING. NONE OF THEM LOOK AT HIM. THE SECOND THEY GET IN FRONT OF HIM, IN HIS LINE OF SIGHT, THEY LOOK DOWN. EACH ONE OF THEM, ONE AFTER THE OTHER. THEY MAKE A POINT NOT TO LOOK AT HIM, AS IF THERE'S SOMETHING ALMOST -- I'M NOT THEM, SO I CAN'T ACCURATELY SAY WHAT THEY ARE FEELING WITH ANY EXACT KNOWLEDGE. BUT IT ALMOST SEEMS LIKE THERE'S A CERTAIN INTIMIDATION QUALITY WALKING BY THE FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. IN TERMS OF THE ATMOSPHERICS BEYOND BLANCHE AND COHEN, DONALD TRUMP WALKS IN WITH THE NORMAL SWAGGER THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS. YOU HAVE SEEN IT AND YOU CAN IMAGINE IT ACCURATELY. WE KNOW HIM SO WELL AT THIS POINT. HE ALSO WALKS IN WITH A BIG ENTOURAGE. IT WAS LAUREN BOEBERT, MATT GAETZ, EPSTEIN IS ALWAYS THERE. THERE SOMETHING OF -- IT FELT LIKE A MEAN GIRL QUALITY TO THEIR PRESENCE. THEY WALK IN STOIC. BUT WHEN THEY SAT DOWN, THEY LOOKED AROUND THE ROOM. THEY NOTICED GEORGE CONWAY. THEY STARTED TO SNICKER. EVERYBODY STARED RIGHT AT GEORGE CONWAY AND WHISPERED AMONG THEMSELVES. THEY DID THE SAME THING LOOKING AT MICHAEL COHEN. YOU GET THE IDEA THAT DONALD TRUMP BRINGING THIS CROWD IS NOT JUST A SHOW OF FORCE FOR THE CAMERAS OUTSIDE BUT A SHOW OF FORCE FOR THE WITNESS INSIDE. POTENTIALLY EVEN THE JURY. CAN YOU GET UNDER MICHAEL COHEN'S SKIN BY NOT JUST SHOWING HIM DONALD TRUMP, BUT ALL OF HIS ENTOURAGE WITH HIM? THE LAWMAKERS WHO HAVE YELLED AT HIM IN CONGRESS, THE POTENTIAL VP CANDIDATES, DONALD TRUMP'S FAMILY, FORMER COLLEAGUES OF HIS, EPSTEIN THERE. TRYING TO SEE IF ANYBODY CAN KNOCK HIM OFF HIS GAME. MICHAEL COHEN, FOR HIS PART, HAS NOT LOOKED AT DONALD TRUMP, FROM WHAT I CAN TELL. HE STAYED FOCUSED. IF HE HAD GOTTEN ANY COACHING -- I KNOW HE HAS GOTTEN A LOT ABOUT HOW TO DEAL WITH TODD BLANCHE. HE IS DOING IT. HE DOESN'T SEEM LIKE HE IS SOMEBODY WHO ISN'T AWARE OF THE WAY HE SHOULD APPROACH THIS TESTIMONY, ISN'T AWARE OF HOW HE SHOULD SAY YES. THERE WERE A COUPLE INSTANCES WHERE HE GOT INTO IT WITH BLANCHE. EVEN THOSE WERE NOT HIGH LEVEL INTENSITY. IN TERMS OF THE QUALITY OF THE ARGUMENT FROM THE DEFENSE TEAM, I'M NOT A LAWYER, I HAVEN'T ARGUED A CASE IN FRONT OF A COURT. I DON'T KNOW JURIES INTIMATELY. AS A PERSON WHO IS STEEPED IN THIS CASE AND STEEPED IN THE EVENTS SURROUNDING IT, I FIND IT HARD TO TO FOLLOW. I WONDER IF THE JURY IS FINDING IT HARD TO FOLLOW AS WELL. THE THEME FOR THE DEFENSE IS JUST TO TRY AND POKE HOLES IN MICHAEL COHEN'S CREDIBILITY. NOT JUST POKE HOLES, TO TOTALLY DIMINISH IT. PAINT HIM AS SOMEBODY WHO NEVER WANTS TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY, WHO IS ALWAYS LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO BLAME WHEN HE GETS IN TROUBLE. WE HEARD THAT OVER AND OVER AGAIN. MICHAEL COHEN, YOU SHIFT RESPONSIBILITY. HE ADMITTED HE DID SO. YOU NEVER WANT TO SAY YOU ARE WRONG. HOPING TO CONVINCE THE JURY THAT THIS IS A GUY, WHEN HE DOES SOMETHING WRONG, IS LOOKING FOR SOMEBODY ELSE TO BLAME. IN THIS CASE, HE IS LOOKING RIGHT AT THE FORMER PRESIDENT WHO WAS ONCE HIS -- ONCE THE GUY HE LOOKED UP TO AND IS NOW THE GUY WHO SPURNED HIM. >> AS YOU KNOW, THERE ARE DIFFERENT WAYS TO DELIVER A KNOCKOUT PUNCH. I WILL LET THE LAWYERS DISAGREE WITH ME. BUT DEFINITELY WHEN YOU HAVE ARGUABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT WITNESS ON THE STAND, YOU WANT TO DELIVER SOMETHING APPROXIMATING A KNOCKOUT PUNCH. IT MIGHT NOT BE PEOPLE SCREAMING, IT MIGHT NOT BE PEOPLE SITTING IN THE COURTROOM WHO SUDDENLY HAVE A COLLECTIVE GASP BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY JUST HEARD. WAS THERE ANY MOMENT AT ALL IN WHAT YOU HEARD -- YOU HAVE BEEN SITTING THERE ALL MORNING? >> I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING LIKE THAT. I DON'T THINK YOU WILL GET THAT FROM THIS CASE. I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY INTERACTION WITH THE LAWYERS, WITH MICHAEL COHEN, THE LAWYERS BETWEEN EACH OTHER. EVEN THE OBJECTIONS ARE QUIET. IT'S A VERY, VERY CALM ROOM. YOU COULD ARGUE IT'S TENSE. BUT IT'S VERY CALM. IF THERE'S GOING TO BE A KNOCKOUT PUNCH, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S SO APPARENT. AT LEAST IT HASN'T BEEN TO ME. I HAVE ONLY BEEN HERE FOR A FEW HOURS TODAY. >> KATY, YOU SAY YOU ARE NOT A LAWYER, BUT YOU KNOW DONALD TRUMP SO WELL AND ALL THESE PLAYERS SO WELL. JUST THE ATMOSPHERICS, AS YOU DESCRIBED THEM. DANNY WAS SHARING THAT AS A DEFENSE LAWYER, HE FELT TODD BLANCHE WAS GOING OVER AND OVER IT TOO MUCH AND THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW EVERY THREAD. DIDN'T YOU TELL YOUR DAUGHTER YOU THOUGHT YOU COULD BE ATTORNEY GENERAL OR WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF OR THIS OR THAT? IT SEEMED TO ME THAT GOING INTO HIS TEXT WITH HIS DAUGHTERS, THOSE CONFIDENTIAL TEXTS, MIGHT MAKE SOME JURORS UNCOMFORTABLE. IT WAS TOO MUCH. HE HAS ESTABLISHED THAT HE WAS NOT TELLING THE TRUTH WHEN HE SAID HE DIDN'T WANT A JOB IN THE WHITE HOUSE. AT ONE POINT HE IS SAYING, I DIDN'T WANT TO BE THE DEPUTY COUNSEL, I WANTED TO BE PERSONAL LAWYER TO THE PRESIDENT, WHICH IS THE JOB HE DID GET. IT SEEMS AS THOUGH THAT MAY BE OVERKILL. >> IT'S HARD TO TELL HOW THE JURY IS TAKING IT. THEY ARE PAYING ATTENTION. I HAVE SEEN SOME VERY MINOR REACTION. MOSTLY WHEN THE PODCAST WAS PLAYING OR NAMES MICHAEL COHEN CALLED DONALD TRUMP OR BROUGHT UP. OTHER THAN THAT, THERE HASN'T BEEN A LOT OF VISIBLE REACTION FROM THE JURY. A LOT OF THEM ARE TAKING NOTES. THEY ARE PAYING CLOSE ATTENTION. I HAVE HAD ENOUGH CONVERSATIONS NOW WITH ANDREW WEISSMANN AND ALL OF OUR FANTASTIC LEGAL ANALYSTS TO KNOW THAT THEY WILL SAY THAT IT'S HARD TO PREDICT HOW A JURY -- WHICH WAY A JURY IS GOING TO GO. THEY WILL POINT OUT ONE JUROR AND THERE ARE PEOPLE SAYING, I THINK THAT PERSON IS X OR Y. OFTEN, THEY ARE PROVEN WRONG BY WHAT HAPPENS IN DELIBERATIONS. IT'S JUST -- IT'S HARD TO TELL. AS SOMEBODY WHO IS STEEPED IN THIS CASE PERSONALLY, I HAVE DONE A LOT OF READING ABOUT IT, I HAVE DONE A LOT OF STUDYING ABOUT IT, I COVER IT WITH YOU LADIES EVERY DAY. I WAS THERE COVERING THE CAMPAIGN DURING THE PERIOD THAT IS AT THE CORE OF THIS CASE. I KNOW THE DETAILS OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING AT THE TIME. A LOT OF THESE ARGUMENTS CAN BE HARD FOR ME TO FOLLOW. I'M NOT CLEAR WHAT THE JURY IS GETTING OUT OF THE MINUTIA OF WHAT TODD BLANCHE IS TRYING TO ARGUE OTHER THAN JUST REALLY EMPHASIZING THAT MICHAEL COHEN IS A MAN WHO WAS OUT FOR HIMSELF, MICHAEL COHEN IS A MAN WHO -- TODD BLANCHE IS ARGUING WHO LIES, AND WHEN HE IS CAUGHT DOING SOMETHING WRONG, TRIES TO SHIFT THE BLAME. THIS TIME, HE IS SHIFTING THE BLAME TO DONALD TRUMP, BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP DIDN'T DO RIGHT BY HIM. THIS ARGUMENT THAT YOU ARE HEARING, DIDN'T TAKE HIM TO THE WHITE HOUSE. >> DIDN'T GIVE HIM A BONUS. COME ON BACK. THE CHAIR IS HERE FOR YOU. WE WANT TO SEE YOU. IT'S GREAT INSIGHT TO HAVE YOU IN THE COURTROOM. >> I PACKED A PEANUT BUTTER AND JELLY SANDWICH, CHRIS JANSING. I TOOK YOUR -- I HEEDED YOUR GOOD DEED THE OTHER DAY. I HAVE