Brian Bannister on Hagen Smith, Noah Schultz, and Garrett Crochet | CHGO White Sox Podcast

have a chance to look at what Hagen did on Saturday night and his uh fin leag did you yeah got to watch his outing um you know it was fun like when when you've had a season in college like he has uh we had a nice sit down with him and his agent kind kind of planning out what does the second half of this season look like uh you know I I strongly believe in not D loing pitchers too much so uh great back and forth gave them some options let them talk about it um and ultimately I think we got to the point like go out there and compete a little bit so it was fun to see him uh bring his electric arm into professional baseball and uh you know throw well and U I think I think it's always tricky when you've had a really good season you've kind of been at the top of the college game to go out there and kind of reset and just throw a few outings at the end of a minor league season where it's it's uh new surroundings and new teammates but uh it was a fun outing to watch how important is it we've heard a couple of you guys now say about you you had haagan very involved in the process explain to him what was going on on for a guy who's by all accounts going to be a huge part of what you guys are planning to do next how important is it to get him in and really give him even at this early stage some input on what's going to happen I'm a big believer there's a new Dynamic now with the analytics and the facilities around the country whether it's Drive Line tread uh a local Regional place that the pitchers go to some of them like to go back to their college campuses because they have analytics there and they have strong relationships with those coaches so uh I believe it it's kind of like a relay race you hand the Baton to whoever ever they're going to go work with in the offseason uh instead of just purely trusting them you you develop relationships with these people and they're very good coaches and very good facilities in their own right um so it especially the Dead period now in the minor leagues um so you want to make sure that those pitchers are taking care of your round and especially with higher profile pitchers that you expect to really contribute to your big league team um you just want to start off on the right note uh sometimes it's antagonistic the the club versus wherever they want to work out with whether it's a Guru whether it's a facility uh instead of just having great communication year round I'm a big believer in that develop the relationships make sure they supported uh don't have information gaps and just get off to a good start given how accomplished he was in a in a in the SEC is he a guy who could move quickly through the system I'm just a believer that you know my dad back in the day threw only a couple games in the minor leagues and then was in the big leagues for 15 years uh everybody always wants a pitcher to shoot through the system and be right there I remember uh when I was coming you know Tim linicum shot through and uh kind of exploded on the scene guys like that um but I think I think you just want them to establish that they are progressing and dominating at their own pace uh regardless of outside expectations so we never internally put those expectations or timelines on a pitcher let them uh kind of read their body get used to the routine get used to the travel get used to the recovery times and just go out there and and have fun and be themselves and I I think that dictates when they get up here it's early for him but as a guy who dominated kind with two fitches in college just seen him seen video of him give a view of you know whether maybe a cutter is a bridge pitch for him or what what shape is changeable will take based on like what he already does well yeah and I think we're going to explore that not not here at the end of the first season but um you know with rhon we added a little curveball after he came from here to San Francisco um I'm I'm a big believer when you have two dominant pitches you show a change of pace third pitch uh but there are numerous examples of power lefties in the big leagues that primarily pitch with two pitches the rodon the Robbie Rays I mean they've been very successful with two and just showing a third to some extent you know Corbin when he took a step forward with Arizona added the third slower breaking ball uh and Carri that over to Washington so you you see that happen over and over again so it's a it's a pretty established template that if they have an elite fast ball an elite slider whether to change it whether it's a slow or curveball whether it's a cut or Bridge pitch uh you just want to explore it dive into it and see what the hitters are reacting to what did you like uh just with the eye test seeing him throw an analytics as side saw him throw the other night when you're watching what did you see that kind of you you know in today's game with all the V I actually watch the hitters body language more than anything uh whether they can see the ball um you know we had Ryan Walker in San Francisco who literally steps across his body like towards third base and when he throws a pitch hitters come back like I can't see the ball and so that's as important to me nowadays as velocity like can the hitters see the ball can they distinguish between pitch types because you're always trying to get pitches to move in opposite directions uh so when I watched his outing you know the fast ball looked like it was on a line uh hitters looked like they were struggling to to pick it up cuz he does hide it well behind his body uh you rarely see Lefty V like that uh at the lower level so you know combination of all those factors but by watch the hitter's body language and there were a lot of encouraging signs Noah has been so dominant in what you've asked him to do this year at Winston and then Birmingham too it was brought up yesterday you know he by Design he's gone the four Innings every start every second how much of a jump is it going to be for him to go from this year to in the regular rotation period next year you know where maybe twice a weeks I'm that yeah different organizations we did in San Francisco last year have experimented with with shorter ining duration in piggyback type situations I think there's different ways to approach it with with a younger athlete uh who's kind of on an accelerated timeline uh just to prioritize their health but make sure they're competing and getting that development so I think there's still things uh we want to do with him uh he was able to throw with us up here right after his Futures game outing and um he's he's got unbelievable talent and great feel for somebody with limbs that long and and being that tall and so uh his repeatability is great you know would like to get a little more swingy Miss in there and and a couple other attributes but I think he's done tremendous for himself uh with what he's done across two levels this year how long is it going to take him to kind of build up that Innings base you know as a guy who can eventually be up here and throw seven innings in a game yeah I mean I think you see so many stars now doing five and Dives and I I don't think it's a huge leap to get to the point where you're pitching kind of the duration where a lot of pitchers are pitching nowadays um so I don't think it's a huge jump I think it's more is Arsenal ready is he physically ready uh does he feel prepared you know the the games like the Futures games I've seen pitchers go there and not have great experiences because it's the best hitters you faced up to that point there's a lot of hype you're on the big stage but those are great experiences you you want to chalk those up and uh know how that felt so you can get out there whether it's working on your breathing working on your composure and be able to execute so I think uh getting to five plus innings in the big leagues is the next logical step but it's it's making sure the Arsenal is taken care of and he knows how to handle platoon issues with hitters he's not tipping things like that on the development side still when you were talking at saber seminar you were talking about how fastball usage just something we're going continue to see go down no especially being his fastball being the thing that people are able to get contact with you see him as being one of those guys who works really slight or heavy or really shows very little of his heater when he gets to this level yeah you know you see somebody like Chris having a Renaissance this year and and I had him in Boston after he was here and uh he he's bumped up slider usage this year and he's kind of back to his dominant ways uh we had experimented with different you know four seam twoam combinations with him uh so there are examples and templates to kind of go off of uh I think him throwing some for Steamers in the top of Zone to compliment the the natural two seam re throws uh leveraging his breaking ball us a little bit maybe having a bridge pitch in there or we've we've been able to do some seam effect stuff when we tried it out with him but not trying to overwhelm him in the short term let him get out there he used to being a professional pitcher and and just the the requirements that go along with that uh but really preparing him effectively to pitch here uh is going to be important but there's definitely things we can tweak as he gets closer to here you you've been here now for almost a year just just top to bottom organizational wise what have you noticed about the pitching dep that this organ organization do have I think I think they did a tremendous job of of giving us a lot of interesting arms last year and I think we went into the offseason and even spring training this year with uh some of the better arms in the league and I think I think that's played out uh regardless of if those arms are still here or not right now I think the tricky part is um you know from an offensive perspective and this is not a criticism but everybody knows we need more production there and so um we've we've had to subtract from the pitching side in order to kind of game plan for the future on the on the hitting side as well as identify things that we can do to to bring more production up here so um I I've been impressed with uh you know the arms we we started out with and they've continued to go and Pitch well for for other teams as well um but I think you know regardless of if you pitch well you have to score runs you have to play defense and uh you know we've been behind in those areas so we'll keep developing pitching you know whether it's Davis Martin throwing a new change up or Jonathan Cannon working with the cfx Arsenal and starting to figure that out he's got to address some slug against lefties uh but those are all things rookie pitchers have to figure out and uh I thought they've done a good job of coming up and and being uh basically League average pitchers in their first season which is a you know hat tip to them um so I'm I'm confident that we're going to keep developing pitchers uh even if we have to subtract from the pitching side to bolster the other areas too um but the the conversations that go on the pitching side pitching development side have been really good this year what do you think of the uh state of starting pitching as a whole you know there seems to be a push around baseball to get it back to you know where they're going six seven hasn't been the case even especially in the playoffs what do you think you think that change is feasible to add more L to starting pitching yeah it it was actually the topic of my talk at saber seminar over the weekend um we've been pushed because of analytics because of pitch data we've been pushing the envelope for over a decade now uh on the pitching side and um I think what we're starting to see is the first signs of push back in the game of baseball which is a traditional slow moving game game slow to respond to rules changes things like that uh we're starting to see kind of a move towards rebalancing the game uh we saw it with the elimination of sticky stuff by pitchers uh to lower spin rates we've seen it with the elimination of uh extreme defensive shifts which were making it tough for polarine lefties to to get hits things like that um you know with uh the ABS Zone The Challenge Zone coming spring training next year uh which I believe will happen uh we've had in AAA for a while now um Manford talking about you know the elimination of openers or having extreme penalties if you use an opener as well as starting pitchers kind of having a minimum duration or even extending the duration of relievers um I think what you're seeing is similar to other sports I I always use golf as a comparison in major tournaments they make the fairways more narrow they make the rough higher they put restrictions on uh you know equipment exit Vos um and you see golf in 2028 they're doing a golf ball roll back to limit the distance uh of the tour players so there's there's things I believe are on the horizon both that have been talked about in the public realm and that I think they might consider in the future and I think what it'll be is forcing pitchers to have better command uh to throw more strikes uh forcing hitters to prioritize a little more contact over uh trading off swing and Miss for power I I think things like that uh will continue to get rebalanced even though it'll probably take a while to find a way that jives with what baseballs look like in the past and what we kind of have to do in an analytics uh game right now and so I don't I don't think just continue to push vo and insane strikeout rates both on the pitcher side and hitter side is good for the game uh both from a health perspective an entertainment perspective but if you look at basketball it's all three-pointers layups and dunks uh you know I was looking at Wimbledon for my speech and it's all Baseline play now they don't go to the net anymore uh you see this kind of elimination of the middle element in in all these Sports because of analytics and the middle element in baseball is putting the ball in play uh versus just trying to hit over the fence so I I think there's things that we're prepared for and I'm always kind of looking ahead what's the next thing in kind of the metagame of baseball to be prepared to make sure we acquire the right players that we're doing the right thing on the development side um so the there's things we'll make adjustments as need be but I I think changes are on the horizon what sort of consideration is being given to maybe shutting Garrett down at some point before the end of the season Garrett's a competitor and he wants to be out there um he doesn't want to be treated like a reliever uh he's Bonafide one of the best starters in the league at this point you know he made great adjustment adding the cutter into his Arsenal and between his his raw fastball V his extension the power cutter the ability to show a change up or sweeper um I I believe he's a number one starter and so um I don't think you want to treat a number one starter any different and so I I think he's going to go out there and continue to pitch uh even though it's in an abbreviated sense right now uh but he's still dominant he still loves to compete and I'm really looking forward to what he can do uh in the future with a full season or his belt question I get a lot is whether the white sock can add a Brian bister for hitting and I don't think you hear necessarily analogous stories of guys fixing tweaking his swing in one batting pad P test like the way you know you added pit Davis Martin but is there kind of a ability to have a SIM impact to what you're Fable to do in pitching on the offensive side that this organization can look into you know a lot of what we've been doing behind the scenes is talking about uh how can we get better in every area um both resource wise data capture wise uh communication wise um and I think we're we're actively addressing all of those things right now um in order to achieve upside Surprises with players um that's that's the beauty of Player Development nowadays and you can literally really impact a player's career with one modification and so uh trying to project players is so difficult nowadays and and that's why I always talk about finding the right ingredients uh because if you if you have things to work with on the PD side uh all it takes is one good conversation or one adjustment and all of a sudden they go from a below average player to a League average or above above average player and uh you want to see those things happening in all aspects of players games whether it's on the pitching side the def defensive side the hitting side um so we've been talking about what does it take for us to get to the point where that's happening with all our players in all areas and I think those conversations have been really productive and healthy um and I think it's it's kind of turning a new page for the organization um and I know you know I I'm a pitching adviser but I've tried to just bring a lot of experiences from my previous organizations in here and and kind of give some outside perspective and I think uh we're going to be doing some some really cool stuff in this in the short term that will be uh very good for the Chicago White Sox I guess are there comparable ways to have not quick fixes but basically fixes that have immediate results in the way that you know we see where you know adding a pitch to a guy or changing his angle or some things where it seems like it FS right away it seems like that doesn't happen as often offensively or or do you see it differ it's definitely easier on the pitching side cuz uh I always say we we set the table and the hitters have to eat off the table and uh so it's it's easier and quicker to do on the pitching side uh hitters are more reactionary uh there's a lot of bat path things there's a lot of uh approach things uh Zone discipline and swing decision things um so a lot of it is kind of what's what's your macro approach to to hitting um are you able to to locate Parts in the zone where where a pitcher is vulnerable and have the discipline on the hitting side to to not Chase elsewhere and really lock in I know that was a big part of our approach on the 2021 Giants team uh where we we had great success on the pinch hitting side we had a lot of upside surprises offensively um and it was able to to simplify hitting which is so difficult to begin with and pitchers are just getting nastier by the year uh with all the technology we have and so I think you have to find ways to simplify hitting uh so that there are more upside surprises both at the minor league level and the major league level thanks man yeah we're going yeah we [Music] good we all sitting like the man