Harris 'knew all the right buttons to push' with Trump, says debate expert

all right guys it is the big story of the day so let's stick with it and invite once again to the show Aaron call who is in Philadelphia he is the Lee H director of debate at the University of Michigan he's also the editor and co-author of debating the Donald and he was with us yesterday setting up everything so I want to get into how the two candidates performed last night Aaron but first thing I want to ask you about is that initial greeting we didn't these two candidates are meeting face to face for the first time and we saw KLA Harris walk right into Donald Trump's space reach out her hand shake his hand he looked uncomfortable what did you make of that interaction yeah it was the first presidential handshake we had since the first debate between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump in in September of 2016 so it's been a while uh that move was um reminiscent of Ronald Reagan doing something similar to Jimmy Carter in their 1980 debate and so it's you know for Domination uh to kind of set the tone the two had never really been in the same room together together or debated and it really shows leadership characteristics and kind of sets of the tone for the night and I think that Trump was on the defensive uh from that moment it it kind of rattles you and um you know he had uh a slow start but then struggled in in some other places so it was definitely unexpected given the debates we had between Biden and Trump but I think helped her and the general Persona commander and chief quality she was trying to express over the course of the evening well that was going to be my followup with you because when you and I spoke yesterday I mean I think for most of us the issue was how is KLA Harris going to perform we know exactly what we're going to get from Donald Trump she needed to present the commanderin-chief on that stage last night did she deliver I think so uh she's you know really talked extensively about her experience the last three and a half years as being vice president and tried to um crossly that to foreign policy the meetings with uh zalinski her international travel uh decisions that kind of were made on Afghanistan and other international issues and so she has a a very interesting biography and those are the things you really want to get across in the debate going back to her prosecutorial legal experience being United States Senator vice president and so she has one of the most impressive resumés for this position in the in the history of politics and I thought she did a good job of weaving in some different stories that that show that and I think the the people that tuned in could see her as commander-in-chief if there's an emergency phone call that comes into the White House the middle of the night that she has the temperament um and you know measured experience to handle something of that serious nature and the last night showed that pretty well Ain can you share some examples that stood out for you what were some key moments where you're like oh that's it she's got it I think the issue of abortion was was her strongest it's something that uh she had an advantage to coming into but you really persuasively talked about some of her interactions with uh voters from the trail and her experiences traveling all throughout the country and uh you really press that issue with Donald Trump he wouldn't commit to vetoing the ban of abortion nationally and so she really got her sales uh in in that exchange and I thought that provided momentum for the entirety of the debate she also framed uh Donald Trump as somebody who you know is anti-democracy and likes and is most comfortable with kind of dictators uh throughout the you know throughout the country and definitely did everything in his power to get under his skin and get him off his best to make game and the the way to do that is to attack his crowd sizes and his ego his business family and so she knew all the right buttons to push and it really caused him to get off that focus of attacking her on the issues where he had the advantage the economy immigration and um you know that that worked and it was pretty easy he was telegraphed in advance but he didn't have the discipline and stamina uh to be able to stick on message for that entire 90-minute debate you're so right that she knew exactly what buttons to push I mean there were some moments at least for me that I was cringing because she said I speak to International leaders all the time they're laughing at Donald Trump like that's got to hurt no matter who you are it it it really seemed she knew exactly what to say especially to someone who's so driven by a sense of self and pride the way Donald Trump is youve kind of laid it out about Trump's performance but I wonder if there were key moments for you last night in terms of where he had some strength or where it just fell apart for him yeah he he continues to have strength and and the poll advantage on important issues the economy inflation immigration anytime there was an issue that he wasn't as favorable on he wanted to try to avoid he pivoted uh mostly to immigration like he did the same in the June debate against Joe Biden but energy policy was something that he spent a lot of time on last night oil prices fracking you know Pennsylvania may be the Tipping Point State in this next election so he wanted to spend as much time there as possible although the connections on on those favorite issues and what was discussed uh sometimes wasn't as clear and I thought the place he struggled the most was just the relitigate of past controversies grievances going back to January 6 the contestation of the 2020 election the more time that's that's spent on those things that most people uh it's passed uh that it only hurts him I thought KLA Harris was much more forward looking talking about how kind of she saw the country in the next four years prospective as opposed to him looking back and trying to settle scores and that's not going to appeal to Independent moderate voters and so he scored some points it was just uneven not as strong as forms in June and just had a much better opponent this time that was able to prosecute the case and poke hes in a lot of his biggest vulnerabilities we discussed yesterday this decision to have the mics off so the candidates couldn't interject as much and they were actually policing each other saying quiet please quiet please do you think in the end having the mics off serve the public I do do it allowed for a more lively discussion on more issues made the job of the moderators easier and kind of got more a substance Focus I do think it benefited Trump still at least with a minor degree he already had a debate with experience of that he had a good Zinger in about uh you know I'm speaking which was kind of Kell Harris's signature line from the vice presidential debate against Mike Pence in 2020 and he just was more aggressive on willing to push the envelope of trying to get past and and asked for extra time getting the last word where Harris given those rules the microphones didn't think that that would translate and was more passive it was our first time in a debate where this was the the microphones get cut when it wasn't your time so a marginal benefit to him but overall was probably overstated the impact it having in the debate and the moderators especially when there was really very contentious exchanges just kind of let it go so the voters could have kind of an unvarnished look of exactly what was being said by both candidates well speaking of unvarnished look we did have the access to the split screen at the entire the entire duration of the debate so you could see how the candidates were reacting to each other's comments you know there were moments where you saw bewilderment amusement and even rage being shared between the candidates what did you think of that body language and what does that communicate to the handful of undecided voters out there yeah non-verbal body language is so important in these political debates especially presidential ones now that the debates will returned to Network CNN first now ABC they show this uh famous split uh split screen which never happened in in past previous debates that were run by the nonpartisan Commission on presidential debates but now sometimes it's even more important to to look presidential when you're not uh speaking and having a very even Keel presidential kind of Above The Fray Behavior I thought she towed the line of um you know kind of laughter and joy but and maybe being smirking a little bit too much you know in the United States you could see some of this Behavior being parody on you know social media and television shows are like Saturday Night Live so you have to be very careful there and be respectful given the seriousness of the subject matter but him you just could kind of see anger raging seething and in his eyes you could tell that he wasn't comfortable what was happening he could feel in real time that it wasn't going the way in which he envisioned and that comes across sometimes if you just turn down the volume even a few seconds or minutes that really gives you a good insight into uh you know the the mood the tenor of both candidates and how they think it's going even though there's no audience for them as the debate progresses very quickly Ain each candidate it now seems wants to have another debate is that a good idea for either one of them who stands to gain there's a lot of risk I mean Harris obviously did well in this one so she follows it up with another one that could be very important but if Trump kind of gets the better of her the next time then that becomes a wash so so probably a little more risk for Trump given that he seems more hesitant to it haris thinks that you know she's kind of figured him out and is very comfortable so we'll see okay if there's another debate promise you'll come back and chat with us about it anytime really enjoy it okay me too Aaron call thanks so much