Fox Hollow Farm: The Ghostly Victims That Haunt A Serial Killer's Estate

[Music] tranquil Fox Hollow far near Westfield gruesome Discovery human bones and fragments first believe to have been what remained of seven victims police now say there are 11 [Music] then last week police unearth the remains of five people on the bow meister's grounds the bones may have been in the woods for 16 months police say they have one daunting task remaining identifying the victims then they say that would close a sad and maob serial murder case that spanned decades [Music] Mr bow meister's lawyer called the judge and asked to delay a divorce hearing he couldn't find his client well apparently Canadian police have dead of an apparent suicide and everyone since this that time has tried to distance themselves from from the story to try to get the property value back up but just things keep happening to that lead us down this other path which is to tell the story two families had hired me as a private investigator to investigate their disappearance of two of the reles intelligent haunt um are supposedly something that you can interact with there sort of living you know in in the current time period or versus um residual which is almost like a almost like a tape recorder very briefly I saw someone in the woods and and it was just a person looked like somebody walking through with a red shirt on and I said where is he and she said well he's gone I said he go and she said well um I didn't tell you but that's the second time I've seen it the serial killer is extremely intelligent I was standing right outside these doors looked over to the woods and um relatively young man walking away and he had it was the same looked like the same guy guy had a red t-shirt on I think there were times his parents were afraid of him I'm going to be honest I think there were times that when he would flip into certain rages or things as children can do he he looked like he was going to walk into a tree and then when I looked a little closer he didn't have any legs he disappeared and he just sort of disappeared into the tree his life history leading up to toh everything in a case of a person that was not mentally stable uh he was in a mental institution at a younger age I could be a serial killer you could be a serial killer they appear to be perfectly normal normal normal Herbert bow Meister is the Hamilton County businessman who committed suicide in 1996 after detectives dug up the remains of seven men buried on his wooded estate if investigators are right valme was a serial killer serial killer many visitors to the property have the sense that the spirits of those killed here still linger you don't know anything about this not not a thing I have no clue where I am or or any history of this place okay what do you think Tracy interesting she said a man in a red shirt with no legs and uh she said she'd seen it twice and he's walking away now I've been married 25 years she's never told me anything even remotely like that they're not doing anything wrong or they have no conscience in the world they're living in and so they're out in the open and sometimes things that are out in the open are more invisible than things hidden during the time that herb was traveling back and forth from Ohio several bodies that they felt had been abducted from the Indianapolis area he had been seen getting in the car with someone with herbs description and was never seen again he's going to be finding bodies right in I asked did they find anything and they said oh yeah this one of the most haunted hous in Indiana and I said well why why do you say that he says well haven't you seen anything and I said well I haven't but my wife has said if you look out your master bathroom window which is right there three trees in a drainage ditch she saw a guy in a red shirt with no legs during that investigation I had an informant that made contact with me that said that he had been with somebody and had taken him to a house on the north side of some strange things that happened to him at the house now I've been married 25 years she never told me anything even remotely like that that's how the spirits communicate with liby by the mere thoughts of the things of the past okay that's the native way he was intelligent but there he still had this uh this arm about every time he came in he just never he never stopped he always asked me to come up indicated that he met him at a gay bar and that they left the bar and drove North uh out of Indianapolis in 1996 this whole area was very remote it was just something that was a big wall saying no don't he indicated that they made several turns around so he wasn't 100% sure which way they gone talked about his property up here and that to come up and see it I thought was ask the law of averages ask enough people and eventually you'll get someone to take you up on your offer they came into the house uh went to the uh basement where there was an indoor swimming pool a lot of investigators wouldn't have taken this case and Mr fander Griff did because of his background and homicide investigations and and around the swimming pool or in the area of the swimming pool was mannequins the person I met had said that his name was Brian smart and that he was a caretaker of the property while the property owner was out of town you know you just have someone who's mentally unstable and who is the epitome of where a serial killer starts they were in the basement of the house at the swimming pool level and they did some alcohol did some cocaine as he told the informant I've had accidents [Music] after they played around for a while the the individual who later was found to be her bow Meister ask him if he had ever done anything with um having something put around his throat and um in other words a fixation he what I spel was like a drug feeling I felt very much like a the old days like qu are something kind of down like temp readings EMF meter readings and uh do some uh magnetic readings as well he told her no he had not done that he suggested that do it because it's extreme High during a a sexual encounter sexual fixation is is uh um with some people's kind of a normal process some people just do it all the time there are two people very much that are still I would say trapped here increasingly more common is the practice of capturing Spirit images in the ripples of water focusing the camera on ripples in the pool informed the investigators that they were not alone is this a resist visual image a watery death Mass depicting a victim's final [Music] moments they will cut off the blood supply to the brain and then they know when to let loose is a Philip or Phillips or another name that's here so her put a swimming pool hose around his neck herb started out using it as a sexual thrill the Informer could feel the effects of it felt like he was going to pass out so he acted like he passed out he stayed like that for a couple minutes then when he opened up his eyes herb was extremely surprised that he was awake seral killers are very intelligent people they know um exactly what they're doing we had an independent psychic come who was not familiar with this location whatsoever never heard of it he didn't even know where she was after I told her and as we sat down after she walked around a little while she said uh our Spirits here uh as soon as we pulled in the driveway it's a real long driveway and I just got this sense of um of dread the first thing I'd seen in the W the red shirt the dog took right at right after it it's really spooky do you feel anything in here where do you feel I feel nothing Vicky feels something murder done here is there someone trying to enter through here can you show us a sign and let us know that you're here there's something it's kind of weird they know um what to look for and in a potential victim um he would look for people that were obviously over drinking and he'd wait until they became intoxic at and then he'd have a conversation with them and and talk them into uh coming up here with him when they were intoxicated he had a much better chance of uh controlling them and getting them up [Music] here I'm getting like an Edward or Edwin Ed something e there was two people that get killed in here and another person by the name of Ron Ronald Robert something with an R so they both talked about what had happened and and went to sleep uh he was going to try to get herbs bfo from him to get his name Etc as he came close to Herb while herb was asleep herb moved around and he was afraid that herb would wake up and see what he was doing so after herb did wake up they talked about what happened and and Herb had taken him around the house showed him some rooms in the house [Applause] but EVP is is supposedly the digital imprint of a voice that you can't hear with your ears so the theory is that these Spirits sort of know having lived in sort of um this Dimension at one time they know what the capacity of the human brain is and then they're going to use the energ that they have available to them to manipulate it into something that they know that we understand he said to one of the rooms in the upper part of the house had a video camera set up but I'm sitting at my computer here which is just feet away this door flew open so violently hard it left a huge Mark in the door and that one of the rooms down by the pool area also had a video camera set up he uh then talked her taking him back to Indianapolis which he did took him back to the bar where he picked him up and let him off uh they talks about getting together and meaning again so he had this flip side life that he got to control part of the theory of why he took that particular person back her would normally pick up people that were maybe 5' 10 511 150 lbs something like that this guy was like 6'5 he was not a large build but he was extremely tall person and he was very vocal with herb let herb know that he wasn't going to let him do anything really bad to him fact matters during part of it he'd even told her that he thought maybe Herby killed one of his friends and her back like he didn't know what he was talking about as with many serial killers this one had a Jackel and Hyde personality and all these men out there being killed for nothing it was early last fall when Herbert bow meister's kids found a human skull on the property bow Meister is said to have taken it away and explained that it was somehow related to his father's work as a physician the skull has not been seen since about the same time an informant told Indianapolis Police that her bow Meister was the last one seen with a missing person they were looking for her B Meister actually had made contact with him and we tried to set up another meeting in between the two of them and Herb just didn't show up for the meeting he did show up the informant's house one time we uh tried to figure out how in the world he found out where he lived and how he showed up at his house halfway down this garage the forensic anthropologist because he took very precise measurements was a huge mulch pile very large 10 ft tall it would take a back ho to dig through it this would have been the initial spot where he was dumping them or hiding them hiding the bodies and this Creek is where the majority of the intact bones were found now they never found any scull here skulls skulls here look at my stomach here what happened here the intact bones were all found in this cre see I'm very sick to my stomach right here everyone gets sick panicky kind of feeling around this area and I don't know if that's coming from him or a victim or this area this whole area right here see I can't hardly breathe inment ran into him again at a bar and and had one of his friends watch him and got the license plate number of his vehicle and then that's how um it ended up pinpointing that was her bowm the vehicle was registered to him and at this address the informant also told us that when he was coming up the property he saw what was a backhoe on the right hand side of the property I think there's five more I think if we would here there's five more bones the informant there was a back parked right in here the only backhole he knew about was the police had brought in to dismantle that vul mile but no this was here when when HT before that yeah the Rolling Hills of Fox Hollow are now but a shallow grave for those poor souls not yet identified ground penetrating radar unit okay designed to find that are buried under the ground ground penetrating radar was brought onto the property to help verify the psychic's predictions I rolled it there and seen it I rolled it over there and didn't see it I rolled it over here and didn't see it so if I rolled it right here and didn't see it that tells me it's probably not a root right if it was a root I would see it all the way up to the tree yeah I did see stuff when I roll closer to the tree and actually I want to kind of roll over through that area hope of unearthing further remains Pro fruitless she did mention one thing that nobody else had picked up on she asked if we ever found rope in this area and and we did and a hacksaw GL they didn't find everything there's more back here we found a lot of old bleach bottles down in this whole area and a lot of there some glass glass jar Vick Vapor Rub and what would that what would that do you might just to you put it under your nose just to cover up the smell of decomposition if you're working around it or having to you know let me tell you one thing somebody did not die quickly out here okay but it was a definite black figure and it went behind the trees and peered around and looked straight at us and it was somebody he really liked cuz I was looking for things that would trick me on that but it had movement and I watched it lean over you did not want this person to like you I just feel there's a lot of unrest out there it might have been perhaps The Apparition that has been seen been actually murdered there instead of another location and might might even be bu there someone that's not been identified they will cut off the blood supply to the brain and then they know when to let lose at the proper time the goal according to the FBI profile was probably never to kill anyone but after someone died then it becomes no fund and then you know the next time somebody's going to die and it just became a pattern accidents not an accident accidents and I'm picking up that one victim that I believe that he thought was completely dead already was not and the dragging out here or when he dragged him out here there was life like it came back to life in a sense some indications that there may have been some videotaping going on usually a serial killer they might have what herbal that called an accident and kill somebody they are surprised that they got away with it so they wait a reasonable period of time maybe a couple months or even six months before they do it again and then when they do it and get away with it they start when they start killing people again the the times interval in between each person they killed becomes less and less because they become more and more confident and they get a they get higher and higher off of the actual killing himself he felt confident bringing people up here and disposing of them because he was so smart he was going to get caught anyway picking up on [Music] something but to dump bodies in plain view you know on a property with children is rather bold do you know if anybody besides your informant they got out of here a l no I don't like being pulled to it mhm over behind the house where we were initially was where he burned them but that was only after uh a period of time um after the skeleton was discovered by his son he felt he had to to clean up a bit well as far as this particular property I would say 15 roughly side of that drainage ditch uh is where Milwaukee found a right leg and things animals and things were dragging uh these body parts around they just become more confident in theirself and that confidence uh is displayed to the people around them uh it's not uncommon in like in Herb's case for the the wife of a seral killer to not know what what is going on not even suspect anything I don't think everything for as compulsive as he was I don't think everything happened the same way all the time I think he actually killed two or three people in this Woods the complete impact skeleton that the son Eric found was just on on the other side of these down trees it's right there the burn pile where he was burning the bodies was in this area here I think I see somebody fleeing almost like crawling on how many night just like this one did someone meet a gruesome in in these Woods beneath that dreaded Moon how long would it take for a body to decompose like that well in the summer depending on the heat and conditions uh you know a body could go from an intact body to a skeleton in two weeks probably this is the only coldest place in the house right here it doesn't feel right I think he's here today actually he's he's surprised that I'm here he he was the the celebrated father on Valentine's Day he sent his daughter roses to school and then as time went by he became more and more confident he was dumping the bodies closer and closer to the house his son finds a complete skeleton right in this area right here and the wife said it looks like somebody laid down and died usually what gets them caught is they get so confident that they start killing people and and getting people closer and closer to where they live he felt confident bringing people up here and disposing of him because he was so smart he wasn't going to get caught anyway Indianapolis Police started to put pressure on him by going to his place of business and and communicating with him talking with him and pulling blanks his ask if he killed anyone obviously he knew that the pressure was on him and that that things were um building up so after that happened the theory is he decided he needed to clean [Music] up the burn pile where he was burning the bodies was in this area it's a lighter looks like it it's a cigarette lighter that we found it's old huh yeah there is some evidence he burned some bodies fresh but this would have been done when the family was away when he did get there he was uh he was really perspiring I wasn't just because he was rushing around it was one of those he was really nervous he looked like they you know usually well manicure but it just looked like he hadn't they were dirty he actually had some dirt it looked like dirt me now you got to remember you can start to see now how this is filling in you will not see any of those houses in a few weeks mhm it's very very dense when you desecrate the body down there burning it it becomes a negative for text it is not hard to believe that someone could get away with this for some time out here at the same time his businesses were failing uh his wife was confronting him she decided to file for divorce and when he got the divorce papers he basically told her he was going to go to the lake with the kids and took off with the kids that's when she decided to cooperate uh the police went to the lake to to get the kids to make sure they were going to be okay and luckily they were at that point he knew that there was definitely pressure on him because the police taking the kids away from it and at that point also it started hit the media the news media was picking up on it Herbert BME and his wife Julie were buying Fox Hollow Farms they'd lived here 4 years then last week police Unearthed the remains of five people on the B moners grounds the bones may have been in the woods for 16 months at that point also it started hit the media news media was picking up on it that's when he he decided to go to Canada he told his brother that he was going to Canada and and I think even borrowed some money from his brother when he got to Canada a female um Canadian M had stopped him in his car one night was just curious because he was sitting along the side of a road and I had Indiana plates on his car and she questioned him didn't see any reason to hold him 15 years and uh five weeks later wow so you got to imagine this at night all the deer and the raccoon and everything hopping back and forth she did notice that there were videotapes in the backseat of the car uh she had no reason to hold him she let him go and then the next next day uh his body was found um we are right here right now okay um this is the camp store and this is the way we came back was he by a river or by water was in a Canadian Park is that a mannequin and I'm straining to see if the chest is going up and down if the eyes flicker the M any movement at all anywhere and I remember saying well he's either a mannequin or he's he's dead I'm telling you I was standing right over the I mean my toes were practically touching his shoulder that's I'm right I'm not looking 10 feet away 8 feet away 5et away I'm looking right over the top of the body the waves were high like this on the night that we found him and it was beautiful out here it was absolutely beautiful out here and there was a little Al Cove where there was water I said yeah that looks about right looks about right that looks about right the skin looked kind of waxy almost shiny but the there was a Beach area and I'm looking down at him and I got a really good look at the scene my headlights are on all the police headlights are on it's almost like it's extremely well lit he threw something in the lake he had things with him even though I was only standing over him maybe two or three minutes it seemed like a really long time things I noticed that the sand underneath the body was all smoothed out and it struck me as really odd sort of like an altar and his body was perfectly perpendicular in front of the car on the sand like he had been placed there herb had laid himself on that mound this body looked waxy he almost looked like he had makeup on it looked like he was prepared almost like you might see him at a funeral Pearl I'm not kidding it was that his hair was so meticulous uh he didn't have that Ashen look to it his eyes were open he was like this eyes open mouth open I remember that very clearly I didn't see any blood on the face anywhere no blood anywhere in the body he was very well dressed um I remember he had Docker shoes on you know and he had the gun in his hand and he shot himself in the head so where's the gun I was there I'm standing over the body there's no gun there trust me I had a really good look around there was no gun there and even the odder thing which doesn't surprise me the sand burm that goes up and then it comes down and then it goes down to the water on that burm were Two Gulls seagulls that were laid out now next to herb side by side with the heads pointing out to the water wait just like this looking out or headed out towards the water perfectly laid out identical to each other they were dead they had been strangled shoots himself in the head okay fine still where's the gun he's not going to shoot himself in the head and throw it he's done where's 's the gun I nobody could ever answer that question I mean which again is the ultimate zero killer that I'm in control and I'm going to take my secrets to my to the Grave with me his car was right behind him there were a set of track marks where a car had taken off went forward and exited out that road right there and I had forgotten about that they were initially told that by the Canadian authorities that the car was full of items and when they got there the car was empty uh you're not going to control me I'm going to control the outcome what I feel about the vide tapes and him it seems to me like he burned those very quickly and all at one time just to get rid of the evidence ending his life was just the beginning of the haunting story a huge protector Spirit Native American I me it's not just here it's like it's like the whole area something's been desecrated but this almost felt like a ceremonial so when you're talking about the hooded figure in the front yard about what time of the day was that it's probably about 6:30 6:30 home from work blue jeans great sweatshirt with a hood hood up and he had his hands in his front pockets okay did you see that out of the corner of your eye or was it like head I saw the corner of my eye and then I turned and stared at it as I drove by there is a a picture of a hooded figure standing right towards me like face to face and he was taller than I was so you got a picture of [Music] that particular the area that they did uh collect I would imagine that they got cuz n they'll scrape the ground down and yeah go pretty low did you never know like how far down the bones washed did they go how hard did they hit that or maybe over in the other Creek some of that stuff might have gotten flooded away long before anybody ever did an investigation here what's your name what was that could you say that again is there anyone here who would like to communicate with us come out here and tell us your name you have to speak up can't hardly hear you sounds like I'm saying do not why are you here are you scared pass on any messages that you might have man wearing the red shirt are you the I70 serial killer want to talk to that man wearing the red shirt can you tell us your name man been seen in a red shirt out here in the woods with the backyard can you tell us your name okay he would talk to the skull it's almost like again I don't he's not saying trophy to me but it was like that was the person straight from these logs straight over there on the trail where are the skulls from all of his victims is it possible that an accomplice to herbs atrocities is still out there it's just been going the last year that something's been introduced to the equation such as the renter do you want to get rid of this yeah then let's get it out of here but I mean I was drawn to the door when I walked into your apartment that's the first place I wanted to go to I was sitting at that chair mhm and the door would fling open and hit the wall open like that see I think that possibly he brought them up through here but this is the question he did party with them up here he's very powerful this is going to creep everybody in the room out but this is the question cuz it's creeping me out but this is the question but if you came up here you probably went home but if you went downstairs you probably did this was one of his personas you don't want him watching you we're at the Fox Hollow Farm it's approximately 8:41 and this is about 8 8:30 at night this area does creep me out in here later when I looked at it there's also the shape of shoulders a hoodie and there's a bit of a face in there oh I see it okay oh yeah I see it too that's what I was yeah right here yeah uh uh that's what I was kind of watching in the woods it was kind of walking down the valley here's what interests me if you look in the background there's a tree right there stops right there that's what I'm saying is blacking out the rest of that tree back there that's right that's right the same basic figure that we saw in Central State same Ty of figure you when I took the picture it turned like this towards me this area does creep me out in here is this apartment A Doorway to the Unspeakable evil of past events still playing out here in spirit form I'm getting like I'm getting like Goosebumps over here in this area so we wanted to do a little EVP and see if we could catch anybody why are you here do you know her if that was you please knock for us again can you knock twice disruption in the laser field May reveal the presence of an entity did you hear that what was it it's very faint yeah I hear it what's the last thing you remember was sitting this is the second time I saw it and this is within the last two months or so my dog perked his head up and looked that way like a cat or something just ran through here and then he looked at me and then he looked that direction so I looked that direction I saw it running from the house into the bathroom it stopped put its hands on both walls and then ran back into the house is there anybody here with us right now no who I am it stopped and looked at me know who I am and that I saw that twice moved here back June of last year I saw it why I'm here no why I'm here no I'm here scared the crap out of me you want to ask some questions where are the skulls bar something there nobody's in the house right are the spirits here crying out for our attention as soon as we walked in here like and I was telling you earlier like I'm not one on like funny feelings or like personal experiences but like I instantly felt funny we want to know your name can you tell us your name he went upstairs right yeah is that you making noise over there or is that somebody else it's got to be coming from upstairs it was like a wiggle that sounded really close they're going to find something yet but I can tell you right now this is the first time I have actually felt him is right here and I think I think it's because he spent a lot of time right here I'm not even kidding that's exactly I'm tell you exactly you just it's exactly he spent a lot of time down here but I think he kept it wasn't like a normal person would keep a journal but he had like a secret Cod I just wanted to come back in this room to sort of compare the noise that we think we heard it's got to be coming from up stairs with the rattling of The Swinging Doors and it just sounds I mean the sound is almost all I did was wiggle them [Music] is there a reason you guys came in here first just felt like need to come Tracy and Beth and I were at the bottom of the stairs Tracy said he' been hearing something we stepped in here and we could hear something walking or moving around in [Music] here so we stopped and was just [Music] listening feel my left hand it's really cold feel the palm of my hand right below show show me your palm over it's cold right here now somebody here shut that door if you're here shut this [Music] door can you make a sound I'm not here to hurt [Music] you what keeps you trapped here [Music] yeah I just saw that did you see yeah did he burn you yes there's something in there he's behind this wall y he's either in this room or right there standing in that doorway oh somebody there did you hear that yes the russle of clothing or [Music] something all right I'm getting a little freaked out it's like you see it you see it I see it right there right there where where where right there H you see him yes I [Music] see has herb materialized out of the darkness to claim another victim [Music] you're actually getting a lot of attention tonight ask them if they're moving at night are you moving the light capable of moving solid objects and showing himself at will it is clear he wants the investigators to know that he's here but is this victim or killer is he pleading or taunting look like a white flashlight it's starting to come through like it turned or something and then it disappeared right over [Music] there I heard like paper wrestling is anyone wrestling any paper P run coming so how many bodies do you think are here 32 okay there's also little girl [Music] here if the Shaman's words are true how powerless this little Spirit must have felt watching what was once a pristine playground transformed into a killing field I think when people cross over they're forced to look to see how their thoughts feelings and actions affected other people and I feel like he is being forced to live and look at what he did and the lives he's affected and the horrific things that he did and the room with the swimming pool was the one that was very powerful too what what have you done to the pool it was probably on our mind a little bit more what happened here this is a positive Vortex because they left Earth to go into the spirit realm the longer the investigators were in the basement the more disturbing things became Genie shaky filling in here here are pool area when I walked into this room compared to everywhere else that we've been so far today it was very heavy and it was very hard to breathe and I still feel like it's I I I still feel like it's it's kind of hard to breathe so and the air feels thick does it not feel thick what I'm seeing is a young M he's crawling out of the pool on his stomach and he's getting up here and he's touching the window with his right hand the message came to me like I got to get out of here but it wasn't my feeling it seemed like it was an impression left from someone else that had been there what happens in this Physical Realm this becomes a doorway into the spirit realm so I had my flashlight already trained down this far end of the pool as I turned my head back down here I saw black shadow right here at the end of the pool and it was moving in this Direction come on make a noise yeah why do you want us to go away okay okay okay over and over it's like a clip like a residual and it's only the middle section of it I don't see what's going on before or what happens after but he's clearly trying to get away he's not casually getting out of the pool he's actually like coming up on his belly and then I think that's what he was into so I think a lot of times people were brought near death and brought back and I think a lot of time times with him he didn't really want to kill them do we have any victims of her bow Meister in this room did you hear that M I think guy talking mhm yeah go go go to the light we ask the Archangel Michael now know who I am I am are you the person we were sent down here to talk to is there someone that could hurt us heavy Brea is that you [Music] herb I think they're really worried about us being down here do you ever drown any of your [Music] victims no I just heard a did you hear that oh my God are you strangled in the pool you know who I am know who I am I am rest strangled in this area so why do you want us to go away my necks on my neck very ritualistic very and I think sometimes when he he's showing me what how this affixation thing sometimes would be almost like the head was cut off is it safe for us to be down here in the pool area is there anything in theor right now it sounded like it was coming from the room back there yeah there somebody walking I like somebody walking towards yeah did you hear footsteps yeah behind cre me out I can hear footsteps or something you can hear footsteps coming up behind us behind me oh my God it was like something coming across the floor behind me and I turned around and listened I wasn't sure if it was her but I had not seen her moving oh somebody's here with us if you watch towards the uh yeah towards the middle there not seeing anything that was a figure or something that you would look at and say that's a person it was more like an energy and I I've seen it just about three times since we've been just sitting here I it really is more like an energy [Music] having heard and glimpsed signs of the spirits trapped in this house the sense of Rel at crossing over the threshold back into fresh air was palpable there's still two or three buried somewhere of his type of Personality he didn't just have everything in there he had some things other cles there might be something on the property Predators roam even today waiting for the weak and unwitting looking for prey that might be on the edge of the crowd more vulnerable and less likely to be missed in our battle against evil we must use all of our resources we must view our surroundings with our minds open and be vigilant to uphold The Compassion that the human spirit is capable of no I didn't see any Footprints going to the site where herb was not even what would be his own like in this smooth area you think if he' walked over there tooot himself that there would be Footprints in that smooth area going to where he was but there I don't recall seeing anything like that I almost feel like he met someone who was let's say doing the same thing he was and I was very drawn to the window that overlooks the woods as I enter this room I feel really strange entering this room feel like he's keeping an eye on on everything we've been doing this for a while and ter of as a skep to the group maybe I'm not as open as everyone else is to experiences but I haven't had that many personal experiences and this is one that I can kind of chalk up I'm definitely a hard evidence type person with a science background and that's something that we can kind of match up the noises and I can't see any anything else I can't see anything else making that happen especially because in order to to try to debunk it since since there you know you since Rob was upstairs when you walked up the stairs we couldn't we couldn't hear you as soon as you as soon as you crested that door we couldn't even hear the footsteps above us is that you making noise over there or is that somebody else oh yeah and we can't we can't explain evil resonates in our worldly plane in many ways and the stains it leaves behind are indelible and permanent we must never forget what has happened here because even though these victims were not known to us how they were taken affects us all we must have understanding and compassion for those around us who are different because at some point we are all on the list of the odd and the unusual no nothing harmful that will happen here ever again I don't want to [Music] h [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music]