Daily | Goodbye Sven

[Music] all right here for the nq8 daily and today we're gonna talk about Sven Goran Erikson I'm with Wayne how are you doing sir yeah I'm all right thank you um I did it's very sad to he the news on Sven I I had one one little I can't call it an interaction um his management passed on actually his management I was passed on his mobile number when I was writing my book on David Beckham um someone um gave me the inclination that Sven would be up for doing an interview um so I sent him a message on WhatsApp and um like many other people in my life as venor and Erikson blanked to me um didn't respond to me ghosted by Sven no I got a double the double Blue Tick so he read my message so I mean my claim to connection with Spen Erikson goes as far as that and I'm talking to Martin Edwards about the um how close it was that he came to becoming United manager yeah yeah well let's set some context because yeah why why are we talking about sengor and Erikson this is United podcast I mean one he's a major figure in the game he's just passed away I'm sure everyone's seen the news age 76 long very long fight with cancer um and pancreatic cancer I think but he was very close to becoming United manager in 2002 you can give us Insight on how close he was also Manchester City manager for a year or so um after being England manager for five years in which um many of the United greats of that era played for him so I think that sets it in context um and I think widely regarded although his time with England was probably a failure given the quality of players he had why regarded as one of the genuinely nice guys in the game yeah a manager of a great laio team by the way yeah who that creso Salas yeah um Veron was playing for them at the time I think so I think so I might have got I might Veron might have been a bit early um because I know Veron played for Palmer for a while but um definitely because the the other thing about Erikson as well is that there's one manager in the history of football who's played Manchester United three times home away neutral renue and beat us all three times and that's venor and Erikson as he did with L in the 99 super cup and then in those back-to-back games in 0708 incidentally the 2008 game in February 2008 was the game after the 60th anniversary of Munich and he was um very um you know he he handled it very well um he l a re saw something didn't he if I remember all the way that he spoke about it I've got um a couple of interviews of him not obviously not undertaken by me because he doesn't listen to me didn't listen to me but um a couple of interviews of him talking about it um where he talked um very respectfully about um United's history and everything like that um I yeah I think you're probably right that it was a that the time with England was by what expectations were a failure but I do remember I I tend to give managers a lot more um I leeway for things like injuries and um app and stance events like there was such crazy events in some of the tournaments with him um where EUR 2004 obviously you've got R um the World Cup in was Sven 2002 was wasn't there yeah England went out to Brazil yeah Ronaldinho you've got Rooney's red C you've got wink gate in 2006 you got the yeah Lampard skull in no no that was past that was past him at that point but yeah yeah but um yeah so you had a bit of that um and obviously there was the biggest issue well I said the biggest issue there's some big issues in there Ferdinand suspension um everyone remembers Gerard Lampard and skulls and everything and not quite getting that right and him famously saying afterwards it was probably a mistake cuz SK gos was more talented um and he should have found a place for him um but well today it wouldn't be a problem you'd play a very different system but they were yeah wedded to a 442 I mean I think yeah 2004 uh you know obviously Rooney's breakthrough um and probably should have done better ended up losing on penalties to Portugal I think Ry was injured right it h off in that game 2002 um beaten by the adventure winners but Brazil down to 10 men I think it there was kind of theme throughout Spen time as England manager that somehow he just wasn't able to affect games by with his you know substitutions I remember that being a big discussion Point um although like for all the talent in that golden generation I don't think the depth of talent was anywhere near what it is today um and partly that's because of the academy system really kicking in now and just churning out uh really high quality players and and uh back in 2002 that that wasn't true you know like United's uh the night2 generation was an aberration it was not the norm well West samam had a good the late turn of the decade as well yeah Lampard Joe Cole Ferdinand all came out of that Academy yeah so so probably friend's time was a failure and of course he kind of left in the cloud didn't he because he was he was stung by the fake shake and uh I can't remember was it was it filler or was it that wasn't United he was linked with at that point no it was 2006 wasn't it so I think I know he he was linked with an English Club and caught by the fake Shake saying yeah he'd like to go if england can win the World Cup um in 2006 which of course uh did not happen yeah not the only the England manager to be CAU this is the thing that um because by the way there are lot of um dignified tributes being paid to Sven a lot of them talking about him being a great man and I'm not I don't don't didn't know him personally so I'm I can't speak to that but I remember especially you're talking about the this um British press thing of stinging a manager which they did with alladice as well I mean no great loss there but I mean just the fact that the British press did it it's so weird because he just it's not thing that's done in other countries it's like I don't know if anyone's ever seen the um the Allan Partridge um skit in the this time series where he he sets he's set by Monty Don or he sets up Monty Don one of the Rogue garders Garder show or something like that and he he's trying to set him up for a sting and he's saying what if someone gave you one million pound or something and he's forced to sort of admit well for a million pound yeah I'd consider it and he's like H I got you well I think like the British press do that like obviously like those thing kind of things are going to turn your head but then they paint them as a traitor and I think that I feel like that was a British thing I know I'm straight off the point here but I feel like that was a British thing ever since 1990 With Robson when Robson was going to go to PSV and they sort of like made it clear he wasn't going he wouldn't get his contract renewed so then it was like the British press turned against the England manager because they didn't want to be scorned again they did it with Taylor and obviously maybe not venables but hodle had it with the um with the spiritual healer and Keegan didn't want to deal so there was always this thing but the point is I do remember for a little time that Sven was a womanizer like I know that that's not really people not talking about maybe you shouldn't but I do remember that that for maybe two years Bar's character yeah it was but yeah it was massive massive part I mean there was wasn't it wasn't it alri that he was there there were a couple there was was it Nancy Delio was one fer Alam was one um I I don't know why I remember the names but they so distinctive and maybe it's because because he was the England manager and all of this was played out in in the Press I mean not I don't he always looked like a retiring kind of guy so I wouldn't have imagined that he would have enjoyed that nor his family um I don't pretend to know about his family situation his marriage and he's obviously got children and everything so I don't know if they were if they were extra marital Affairs or anything but I I do know that that was played out in the Press quite a lot and it's funny to sort of see is the ocracy of the press isn't it really they turn around and they sort canonize someone on death and they should do really because I don't I think um by all accounts from everything I've seen and read he's obviously good judg of character because he didn't talk to me um unlike you you know yeah I've never been ghosted by S this is very true all right let talk about I mean I mean your judgment um obviously talking to me spend sound on that but yeah yeah well there you go um need must and all that yeah all right let's talk a little bit about 2002 because fuson is going to retire he announces sort of six months ahead of time um and it's kind of widely regarded that Sven was first choice to replace Ferguson before um he did his U-turn second choice and First Choice was Wenger um they had the meetings um and from what I understand I've had this conversation a few times with Martin Edwards that um they were sufficiently encouraged Enough by benger that that conversation went on for a long period time then vanger obviously had a conversation with Dean um David Dean um and he felt loyal to the project so he he stayed there and obviously at that time I don't think it there was an earlier spot with fuson and wengo but I don't think the animosity really happened after 2002 so up until that point it wasn't so bad but he he was loyal but then the next choice in fact it wasn't even that I think that was edwards's first choice was Wenger but then the incoming chief executive was Peter Ken and Kenyan really wanted Erikson and all the board unanimously agreed with that after that so they went after him and um by all accounts the that deal was done over Christmas 2001 um close enough that a contract was being drafted so I'm led to believe um by the way all of this story of this is in Morris watkins's yeah the late Watkins former lawyer and secretary at the club right yes well solicitor the club solicitor and yeah he would be the one everyone must remember Morris um at the time when cell was suspended anyway his book his book's got all this in where he talks about it um so United were I think they they've beaten F 32 or something and the the directors were down in London and they were thrashing that out the deal with him and I feel like the contract wasn't signed but it was everything was in place and they were just kind of working out out what the next step was um so the extent that Ferguson hadn't been informed of who his successor was but everything else was in place now at the time Ferguson at Christmas that I think that was boxing day or or the game after boxing day was in the Christmas period it had been Christmas or Boxing Day where Kathy had said to Ferguson to Sir Alex you can't retire it's not going to happen you get under my feet too much so Ferguson then went back to the board told them that he you know he's had a change of heart um and he was lucky really he Ferguson was lucky that that contract hadn't been signed because they there was almost nothing he could have done about it and we're talking days we're literally talking a matter of days of that contract what a sliding doors moment that would have been would have been at United and Ferguson would have been looking for another job I mean wouldn't have had much trouble finding one um or they' have had to to pay off SN well such on such fine margins football football's like this isn't it there are lots of these stories I wonder what Sven would have been like as United manager because he was you know he got as you alluded to he got a lot of really mean personal press as England manager to the to the in in the kind of style that hasn't really happened to um let's say Gareth Southgate as England manro the last eight years for different reasons um but there would have been a hell of a lot of scrutiny on Sven he never really me as a kind of tactical genius you know it's all a bit 442 and stuff like that how would he adapted would we have had how many League titles did fergon win after 2002 it was a lot and the European Cup and two finals uh so I'm not sure we'd have quite achieved I don't those goals if spender been in charge but who knows I I I agree that he wasn't renowned as a tactician but um I think this is going to sound hugely disparaging and it's not but the comparison is validated in terms of the global footprint that they left on football it's kind of like the Swedish Roy Odon right that um he he went to different countries he learned different cultures um and there was a bit of that in every like his knowledge across the game was so vast but what he what he was known as really was a remarkable man manager all the players all the England players always spoke of him with fondness um you I very rare that you would find an England player and nothing comes to mind right now of anyone who speaks badly of him obviously beckan loved him um Rooney spoke very well of him as well so there were elements of England raising the game in in certain situations and they did do it there were some famous games um one that we haven't mentioned is that we went to Germany and won 51 under Sven which was the first big result under under him and really that was a landmark result at the time I'm sure you remember because um Germany also had this sort of Indian sign over United that you never thought that over England where you never thought England could beat Germany so to actually go there and destroy them in the way that we did um yes well you know an anomaly when Emil hesy scores in a 5-1 win and who was it Owen get a hat trick in that one yeah and Gerard got the other CU I remember being like Liverpool 5 which he would have loved now obviously we now know that he was a lifelong Liverpool fan yeah um by the way um again not possibly the done thing here but Liverpool showed so much class in giving him that the match that to take charge of the charity game over the summer to allow him to do that and and yeah um but yeah we didn't know that at the time he was a big Liverpool fan there was that that massive Liverpool United divide saying well they don't pass to each other in training in the England camp but that's right and before we go uh a word about friends what year and a bit in charge of Manchester City this was before the uh ABAB takeover and faxing was uh in charge of City who I think he's now in prison on corruption charges in Thailand I I mean he certainly on trial for a while the former prime minister who embeded a lot of Thai money that's why you had to sell C right I remember or at least the start of that was something that the start of the process yeah um but if you if you check out sven's CV after that he had that time at City no real shakes there and then he's gone on this massive Journey as he had done before you know he had very very career but he's in charge of Mexico had a spell as director of football at Nots County do you remember that one oh God we salul Campbell went there yeah yeah oh my God it's all very odd because they couldn't afford to pay him so he left um he was in charge of the Philippines for a while while yeah had this you know Mega Journey around World football um until he sort of finally reti in 2020 not even that long ago given really I didn't realize it was recent um well the city thing I know we already spoke about him beating United um that probably the sh shatra reain was the start of what followed because um the that was the first transfer window where they put all the money in like Rabino and everyone was signed I'm fairly sure it was 200 78 might be a little bit wrong but there was a it was a year before the Abu Dhabi came in because they were spending a lot of money but before that city um if like I remember it very well the season before that when Stuart Pierce was in charge City didn't score a goal at home from December and they were really really struggling and I think Erikson was the first sort of flex in terms of look who they can get cuz he's only two years from the England job do you know what I mean so it was a massive appointment for them and obviously they never look back I'm not saying Erikson started anything there but it's a when they were making the statements he was the first of of of that um so I can't really say that he did much in terms of City apart from beating us twice but um I did want to talk I know that you want to talk about City but I did want to talk about his illness um I know this is a football podcast but I think you know it's something that when someone in the public ey um because I've got a lot of experience with um cancer and for with relatives I my father-in-law passed away with it about 10 N9 years ago um and that was a a short battle you know he was diagnosed in April the prognosis was that it would be like July or August and he outlived that um to November it was very difficult um knowing that you know he he knew that he was going to die and we knew that it was going to be soon and all that kind of thing and sometimes you see people in the public eye um make prophetic statements or like make statements about living and dying and you always pay a lot more attention to them when you know that it's quite clear from every report that they are going to die um the other thing is like you know it's not just that my my realize I was told the weekend of the FA Cup Final the um was the day after the final that my dad's got cancer um thankfully his I don't think well I don't think I said should be a lot more clued up with this but have a strange relationship with him um where I think that it's treatable anyway the treatment I think is going well um one of my best friends or one of the people who's closest to me I found out on Fridays got had a really aggressive cancer and they had a successful operation for it but they're going to need to be monitored a rare a rare aggressive cancer and that caught me um out the blue and anyway the point is I'm not making this isn't anything to do with me I've just mean that when you hear the news of someone who you knew had terminal cancer like can you remember it was only a couple of years ago in Andy gorum he had the same he had the same type of cancer as my father-in-law and the same prognosis and he was on Facebook at the time and I reached out and messaged him again another thing he he didn't he read the message never got back to me but I didn't I didn't send him a message to get a reply it was just more like yeah lot of sympathy for what you're going through and like you know other people have gone through it and um and then you know you just start thinking about the families and I and then he was I mean I sent him that message in maybe a few weeks before he died it took him really quickly that cancer and you just like those kind of things for example the Erikson thing he was only last week maybe three weeks ago there was an interview published with him and then last week they posted something was posted about what his final words were in terms of like his final words to the public and you think the reports that were attached to that were saying he's probably got only a couple of months left to live but I remember thinking then no that feels like something will come very soon but he's still a surprise when it happens and I feel like it is weird to I I feel like I'm a person who absorbs a lot of like things with the written word with people like like mantras and everything like that I'm not saying that take everything like as red and think oh that's really insightful but I I do find something maybe it's like maob fascination with the way that people if you're in a position to be able to do it that your last words are effectively public and that's how You' be remembered I find it really interesting and so it was interesting to see what he said really and um I don't really have anything to add other than that's an observation and it was weird to feel that today when um on the back of what he said last week and in Sp of sorry in the light of everything that has happened to me over the last year or so so no and he had a kind of in a way like emotional syn off several times over didn't he where he made appearances in uh in public uh clearly not looking um himself um but uh but some very you know emotional send offs at various stab around the world um and and as you say good yeah good for him because um he deserve that so um yeah sorry all right we'll uh we'll leave it there just wanted to pay a little tribute to Spen and talk about his time um he was nearly United manager but he wasn't um goodbye Spen and thanks everyone for listening [Music]