Where does Terry Pegula rank among NFL Owners?

The Rockpile reports the pettiest hardest drinking bills podcast welcome everybody to another edition of The Rock P Report podcast I'm your host Bill season ticket older Drew gear that's my producer Chris Krueger and in studio with us tonight Mr Ryan LEL from Rock Sports Network hey guys how's it going season ticket holder Ryan L season ticket holder Ryan LEL he's been busting my balls about this forever and I love it I now like steer into it which is what I do anytime like if someone points out hey you're doing this and it annoys me don't do that because if you do now I'm obligated to continue yeah yeah and I knew that about you that's why I leaned into it I love it how you been brother been good man you know I've I'm just now starting to pay attention to the bills so it should be a fun show but uh we're talking about a topic that's near and dear to my heart as you well know so so guys I I just want to start this show with the disclaimer we're doing this now and the reason that we're doing it now is because I feel like I didn't want to wait for the NFL season to start because then it would come across as disingenuous right especially if you wait you know the NFL and the NHL Seasons get underway well we saw what happened to Tai dun right when you hold the story quote unquote when some of the less intelligent members of our uh community and fan base try to label things as a hit piece simply because one of the teams isn't performing up to you know up to Snuff I think the way that you kind of get around that is you just say what you're say what's on your mind before anyone can really paint you into that corner right yep okay everyone z z right now so in that way we've gotten together here tonight and if you saw the thumbnail and thought it was clickbait and you're here it's really not what we're here to talk about tonight is is something that I think doesn't get talked about enough with everything that's going on with the bill and with the Sabers and it involves our owner Terry Pula and just what kind of an owner is Terry pugula now I think it's a legitimate discussion right it's a topic that I find really interesting one of the most commonly used tropes when it comes to talking about sports where it doesn't matter where you are in the world what sport you're talking about it's the concept that insert name here that guy sucks okay that's it's an easy thing to say whether it's set at a frustration whether it's coming from a place of like hey I learned a piece of information hey whoa Chris is raising a glass yeah glasses first so before we get into this because it's a fancy conversation that calls for fancy drinks what do we got here in front of us Chris uh this is a black Manhattan black heart not good has hasn't done good with the Sabers he's been out of the public eye with the bills which we'll get into why is why he doesn't talk to the media so you're literally giving like theme drink a theme drink for tonight Cheers Cheers Chris cheers yes also the theme drink to uh my wedding the signature cocktail at my wedding all right uh so which he which which he doesn't tell people he I went to go order one at his wedding and he literally stepped in and was like no no no no no no you don't give him the the the well stuff he drinks this thing over here so I'm drinking 100 Proof on what was that was it even higher than that possibly I think it was above a 100 proof and instead of like a formal sit down dinner they did one I think was one of the cooler formats which is just like cocktail party think of shery but on steroids so like little roast beef sandwiches but like a lot of cheeses and crackers and just stuff right except when you're me I see little sandwich and I go all right well I'll have I'll appetizer I'll eat that later I fig it' be right up your alley your hands yeah but the problem is that I don't eat I don't eat as much as I do this sure because it's all finger foods you're not forcing me into a seat to eat something and that's on a plate in front of me now if you see something running low in a situation like that do like a primal Instinct kicked K in yes 100% there was actually some really good cheddar up there and I saw like four cubes of it left and I remember like I was on like near the dance floor where his cousins were starting to cut a rug and I ran across the room Che grandma if someone had gotten in my way it would have gotten ugly yeah but that that also led to me showing my ass to my father-in-law because then later that night I came home I thought I was pulling everything together I'm like listen nobody knows how bombed I am because I've been drinking 100 proof whiskey on an almost empty stomach all night and then I leaned over to time I shoe untie my shoes and like almost just like face first just tipped over into the refrigerator he's the only one who saw it love him to death because he didn't blow me in yeah I feel like I feel Christ and you might agree with me on this I feel like that happens to Drew a lot where he does the whole like in his head nobody knows how drunk I am but then everybody knows exactly how drunk Drew is like every show that you guys record you can hear Drew getting drunker and drunker and Drew probably thinks just like man I've had a lot to drink tonight nobody can tell nobody's the wiser yeah so uh speaking of cocktails Monday because Iman tweeted this out how good ad off's wings were so Jessica and I went to ad offs for chicken wings on Monday lived up to the hype that Iman put out in the same way that I like M moser's Wings M Mosers and Hamburg they do their own sauce it's their own own recipe for hot sauce ad offs has their own blue cheese deal better than Rudy's it's the best blue cheese I've ever had the wings are legit now Jessica and I did not know that it was 75 cent wing night so it was slightly packed so we get to ad offs put our name in they're like 45 minutes and I'm like yeah yeah we're good so then Jessica goes well let's just maybe is there like a bar close by we can go grab like a quick drink cuz the bar was pretty packed at ad off so you don't want to be standing in the Middle where everybody comes into the restaurant and you're in immediately in the yeah so we look we got in the car drove around the block we're Googling things in the area nothing and then I'm it's already been like 5 to 10 minutes I'm like no we're just going to go back to eight offs that's that get to eight8 offs immediately two spots at the bar open up oh we'll take those I'm going to go tell the host this I know we put her name down but we're going to eat at the bar they're like oh we just called your name it's been like 10 minutes and you said a 45 minute wait but either way we're going to sit at the bar so J is already annoyed at this point J he's annoyed in a situation where everyone else would be like really happy yeah so Jessica orders a beer and the bartender goes what about you guy I I like look cuz we're at like the end of the bar and I'm looking and I I'll get let me get a oldfashioned with bullet and the guy goes I don't know what that is um I appreciate the honesty I told the guy I'm like I appreciate how honest you are that you don't know the first cocktail generally ever made in the history of drinking the oldfashioned so I am at the bar and I go do you have Bitters and he's like ah he's look finds a bottle of uh bitters he yeah we got bitters it's just like Bitters and bourbon right I'm like no you have a sugar cube or a sugar packet everybody else in the bar is going it's 75 cent wign I get a beer like what are we doing here they're looking at his stupid hair and his Chelsea boots going I've seen this in movies I never thought I would live it yeah I walked the bartender through how to make an oldfashioned he went back in the kitchen got a sugar packet and he's like you want like just dump the whole thing in there three dashes of bitters 2 O of bourbon over ice he did it he looks stressed doing it I'm like this is old fashion it's not hard bourbon sugar it's not hard on a night other than 75 cent wing night to be fair they did it Chris is the only guy I know who would go into a bar who where clearly the guy doesn't know how to make a cocktail and go no I'm going to teach you something like I'm how old right I I'm not at the age where I should be being taught things he was clearly he was clearly older than me yeah never heard of an oldfashioned before or it's I guess it's like a South Buffalo thing like there's like yeah I get we have all these spirits but that means it's really more you do a shot yes you're not or on the Rock I'm not doing a Manhattan or oldfashioned or what I had to teach the or something you just off the deep end they should put it on the menu as a profiling mechanism in the second anybody asked for it they just kick you out also can we talk about 75 cent wing night I know in this economy I heard that dollar dra night that that's what I heard out of this whole story was like wait there's 75 cent Wing that's like that's like back at Brockport when we would go to Barbers and it was like 25 cent wings and dollar drafts on Wednesday nights to get people in the door so guys if you want to know where you can find the rock P report on Monday nights it's going to be over at ad offs for 75 C also what's the spelling on that because it's dangerously close o LF apostrophe s it is the real deal okay all right all right the the bar the bar came before Adolf made himself famous so it came in I I still feel like you got to rethink the name bar well the bar we were first man don't never mind that idiot with the mustache we were I we can also talk about the original uses of like the SS symbols and stuff too but we don't so they opened in 1934 so that so not that far off no not yeah okay that's hilarious while Kudos the ad offs because 75 cent wing night in this economy guys 75 cent wings at ad8 offs in South Buffalo guys if you like us you like chicken wings go check them out and it sounds like if you like blue cheese oh yeah if you don't want man and how weird is this two the top Wing spots in Buffalo 911 and8 offs y only in Buffalo Sean mcder MC is th yeah the jokes make themselves I'm not listen we didn't come here to discuss sha mcder that's a whole separate podcast that yeah that is we're here to talk about Terry Pula and for those of you who think we're going to sit here for a half hour in trash him that that is not the point of this I want to walk you through my thought process about how we dissect where our Sports owner lives when somebody says something sucks or a person sucks within a sports context there's not much to be gained a lot of the times from qualifying it outside of sports if I walk into your house and you're like hey we went came back from this party everything was cool and I said yeah the guy Tom he sucks there's no way for me to qualify that and you just have to take my word for it and kind of shrug it off and be like all right well I don't agree but that just is what it is yeah in sports it's not quite that way right because there are some things right some qualifiers even if they're a little subjective so like I I have if I'm talking about a player and I want to say that player sucks which you do a lot on your show which I've been I was going to say I don't know to do I don't know anybody who would get overly because first of all it's usually an emotional response to something not a logical one and I don't know anybody who prefers emotion over logic more than more than Drew gear I don't know anybody so there are statistics right there's wins losses and then there's also metrics and analytics and other statistics that you can use to compare them to their corollaries whether it's Apples to Apples or depending on how drunk you are apples to oranges where you can make a case for somebody being bad at what they do yeah if you're talking about referees judges officials right you can figure out who's good and who's bad because there's today's day and age there's a rule book and we can all go find what is laid out within said sport rule book so did that official incorrectly assign an intentional grounding call while also blatantly missing a horse collar tackle that happened right in front of him if so then you can say oh that guy sucks we've done it for how many years with Angel Hernandez in the NFL right or in in baseball like was a pass illegally thrown forward that mathematically and just with your own fraking eyes you can see like that was a forward pass and yet the referees aired to make the correct call you can point to that and say those guys suck at the job they were hired to do so there's some empirical evidence there that you can follow to say I can make a case to back up what I'm about to say if you want to talk about coaches like style points do matter I don't know why but they do in sports sure think about the number of coaches who keep their jobs a lot longer than they should just because Dick Jon once got an extension from this football team why what did he do well Marvin Lewis in Cincinnati this is the poster boy Jeff fiser career 500 But ultimately coaches are defined by their wins and losses and whether or not they win a title can you achieve ultimate greatness in your sport whether it's the NFL whether it's the NHL whether it's baseball you as a coach now as a guy who doesn't follow baseball as a coach if you win a World Series there will be at least 10 teams in Major League Baseball that will still hire you after you've been fired from these other teams because one time you won a ring and that means that you must know something yeah you know how to do it yeah right you've been there been there done that I mean Tomlin and Pittsburgh Tomlin and Pittsburgh is probably the when was the last time the Steelers were really competitive last year they made the playoffs somehow yeah you go how the how the hell is Mason Rudolph this team is on its second quarterback third quarterback it doesn't matter he never been below five H so he must be a good coach be but he wouldn't still be there if he didn't have that ring right and these are the things that you can paper over for you know with the championship unless you're in Philly which is the tananda of major cities in the United States like there's a lot of smart guys who do a lot of fancy things well who get fired very quickly yep now the Dolphins are flying in the face of that this week they gave I messaged you today that Mike McDaniel is Bizarro Shawn mcder yeah yep and I thought it was I thought it was a great a great statement you've got a coach who's just extended by an owner after having not won a playoff game just like Shawn mcder did who is a savant at his side of the football like he's a coordinator who is a savant in what he does well and just blunders in a lot of other places and then inexplicably his side of the ball is what fails when things get tight at the end of the day right right at the end of the day when you ultimately lose in your season ends a lot of your fingers go back to okay but you were supposed to have that you're the guy you built this thing why does it fail us when whether you're the Dolphins scoring seven points in Kansas City or whether you're the bills whose defense just can't keep anybody under 24 points in the playoffs like can't stop a team from getting into field goal range with 13 seconds left it's like yeah why is it always you yeah but this isn't a sha mcder conversation this isn't a Mike McDaniel conversation right but when it comes to coaches you can see good and bad you can kind of intrinsically look at the empirical evidence in front of you and say I can qualify my position what happens when you start talking about sports team owners yeah it's a weird gray area where you're trying to figure out what is it that like it's pretty reliable podcast fod I'll admit it guys to sit back here behind a microphone and go this guy sucks this owner stinks everything's terrible let's face it like I have a superpower maybe it's just my natural nihilism but when I'm hung over there is nobody who can hate just unilaterally on any person place thing or concept and throw as much legitimate shade at them is me everything in the world sucks you might as well shut the sun off now and let it die like that's I go to a really dark place when I'm hung over and so it may like other people find that funny but I just so in that way I understand people who walk around carrying around this animosity towards things that are kind of intangible like our Sports owner so in trying to do as much research as a person can on this topic what what I found about Terry Pula is really interesting because depending on where they come from whether they're a journalist whether they're a fan whether it's just a buddy you know who just has an opinion it's hard to find people who are willing to take a universal approach to trying to decide whether Terry Pula is good or a bad owner of the Buffalo Bills and the Buffalo Sabres and just as a sports owner in general and I find that there's a lot of there's two camps there is the camp of people who is so grateful he saved their team of choice yep that they are unwilling to Levy any criticism and then there's the camp of people who are so bitter that neither of these teams have won a title or that a lot of Terry pula's early promises haven't come to fruition that they have nothing but criticism to offer or if they're an individual whose job depends on hey I need to write something people are going to read negative press sells sure all and so there are you can tell who the journalists are who have an agenda and so with that in mind I I've noticed that there's very little middle ground but I feel like that's where most people need to be and like most things in society today it's just hard to get there so I wanted to have a conversation about what I want to try to qualify what it is that makes a good sports owner build a little bit of a hierarchy and then discuss where Terry Pulu belongs in it because I feel like that's the only way we're ever going to really get to the nuts and bolts of where he belongs and how he should probably be viewed so to my original Point how does one evaluate an owner now I've put together a really hack PowerPoint presentation on the topic yeah I mean well it's it's I mean if it was being graded against like other high school students it would I think it would be pretty well put together Chris if you want to go ahead and hit play on that bad boy are there like transitions did you use yeah animation are like spins and you just go right to the top Chris yeah there we go right makes a good sports owner Ryan all right this is your book report this is my book report what makes a good sports owner brought to you by Drew gear I'm in eighth grade Chris keep it going all right so click through I think one of the first things that a sports owner has to do is illustrate that they have franchise within the community like our sports teams are kind of woven into the fabric of who we are you know we make the team a little bit of our personality whether you like to admit it or not even if you're not a super fan it matters to you so a good sports owner in theory would be someone who helps endear themselves to the community and makes you feel like even though they they're just a business owner that they care about you as a citizen of that City and also that they have some skin em even if it's just emotional skin skin in the game that they have some skin in the game too Chris customer focus and servant leadership now the industry you worked in you know a little bit about these things yeah Y what why don't you expand on what it is servant what is servant leadership you want to qualify that Ryan I expect you to be like Tom from Office Space I work with the goddamn customers yeah so I mean servant leadership is this concept it's it's I won't get into it too much it's actually a book that I purchase folks that report up through me so they can kind of learn the concept I studied it during my master's program but it's it's the concept of like the the leader who leads by doing the things that no one else does right they lead through um you know the whole the whole concept is the story of uh this this track that a group went on in in the Middle East and there was a gentleman who you know he did everything he carried the bags he washed the shoes he everything like that and and he kept the morale up and then all of a sudden he disappeared and the entire Expedition falls apart and they go find out to come to find out that this is the guy that bankrolled the entire Expedition and he you know did everything that needed to get done as a way to keep morale up so the concept of servant leadership is that folks are willing to go to the mat for you because they know that you're willing to go to the mat for them right it's it's it's this concept of leading by example you know there's a lot of things that kind of spun off of it but when it's it's customer focus is you know I'm going to I'm going to make sure that my customers are happy because at the end of the day they're the only ones that matter they pay my salary and then servant leadership is those who don't have as much skin in the game as I do because they didn't invest $1.9 billion doar of their own money into own this organization they want it to succeed just as much as I do because they see how much I care right that's that that the general concept of that okay Chris moov it along success in their field I think it's it's hard to be seen as a good sports owner you could do all the war fuzzy touchy feely Community stuff if you're if your team doesn't win no one cares yeah winning cares a lot yep Chris finally I think it's understanding the social contract you support us we support you and we need to feel like you support us and that's the agreement that's it you personally I don't think Terry pagul is coming to my house with a loaf of bread what I think is going to happen is Terry pagul is going to work very hard and he's going to pull a lot of strings to make sure that this thing runs well and if he do you that of him I expect that and then the contract is if you do this since it's already a thing I care about I will continue to support it and I will continue to have faith in it and have faith in you and your ownership and your leadership of it and we'll all get along together we'll continue to support both emotionally and monetarily continue to support the thing that you do so if these are the tenants that like let's call it the four pillars of how to be a decent Sports owner right because I don't even think I don't think anything here makes you great I think this is kind of the Baseline yeah yeah it's uh similar to the four pillars of aew there you go God I hate you both I'm going to put on a big one of these days I'm going to come in here and I'm going to frog Splash you across those monitors it'll be like in the Twilight of the podcast when're I'm you're supposed to move the monitors if you're going to put somebody through the table everyone that yeah if you're going to throw mankind off the top of the cage someone's got to move the monitors Drew and put a CR pad under the table I do recall seeing them moving all the TVs all the time and going oh yeah this is scripted damn it yeah yeah now it's iPads yeah so with that said now that we understand what we think makes a good sports owner the question is where does he line up next to his cories so Chris if you want to uh move ahead to the next slide o oh yeah okay we have a hierarchy that I'd like to try to lay out and I think you all know where we start in the basement right poor ownership good ownership average ownership those of you just listening to the audio format not watching on YouTube you are missing what is a master class and how to look like an eighth grader using PowerPoint I want it known I made this thing in less than 25 minutes poor ownership do you think if you would have spent more time on it it would look better no I think it would have just taken me more time I do like that Dan Snider looks like he just got back his Letterman's jacket from the girl he dumped Dan Snyder in that picture looks like Chris if he were to go through like more two more divorces maybe it does he is the Dan Snider Folks at the Port we're going to work left to right for those of you listening from poor ownership through average on to good poor ownership it has to start with Dan Snyder he's an absolute ghoul of a human being uh to to his team to his own fan base to the community at large around them he's a parasite he's a problem well he's gone every house needs a basement every list needs a bottom and Dan Snyder is absolutely where you start if you're trying to talk about NFL owners and where they fall I think you could also throw in there I didn't include his picture but the owner of the Oakland days yeah sure who just just like unscrupulously tanked his own team on it was Major League the movie but in real life I'm going to tank my team for long enough that I can then say I'm losing money so I can move my team yep and it's it's horrible right I mean Dan Snider though has been the worst Sports owner I think in the history of any organized sport in the United States oh yeah and the way I qualify that statement is by saying you don't get Congressional hearings held about what a piece of [ __ ] you are if you're not one of the worst like who's the last guy to have a group of Congress people you like when you talk about things different parties politically can get together about this day and age and one of them happens to be the dey's garbage yeah that's that's how you know you're terrible that's that's that qualitative evidence that you were talking about earlier Dan Snider sucks so badly he unified Congress for at least a few Shining Moments the next up is Jerry Jones Jerry Jones isn't quite the ghoul that Dan Snyder is right he's not an absolute Abomination who's been a parasite to his own fan base and taken advantage of his communities and some of the most vulnerable people in his own like organizational structure like Dan Snider's a scumbag Jerry Jones is just ego with money that's left unchecked yeah I think I think Jerry Jones is what happens when you're too rich for too long and there's nobody left to tell you no and I think that I I I would qualify him as a poor owner because you look at the performance of his team you know same thing with I didn't even get to the team I couldn't get to the commanders because of that's how bad Dan Snider is take his even take his personality out it doesn't matter you've done so much within the scope of actual football that's awful to your employees to what you're garbage Jerry Jones I don't know that he's garbage because I he seems to treat everyone who works for the star well and there there's been no complaints there's been no massive exposes other than he's knocked up a few women and then paid them and you know sign made them sign ndas what billionaire hasn't the funny part is he's suing one of them yeah to get the money back after she broke the NDA and that's just Petty I mean your team is worth $10 million you're going to sue this lady for what what are you talking how much does uh hey I won Super Bowl's x amount of years ago factor into this because oh he would be he the the fan base would have turned on him already if he wasn't Jerry Jones if he didn't win back-to-back Super Bowls and he also didn't make the team America's team MH yeah they would have turned on him already his problem is he meddles he's one but he medals a lot well he doesn't meddle a lot he's the g m I know I mean that's a little bit more than meddling I guess and that's where you go this is a guy whose ego will always hold him back as an owner because he doesn't know servant leadership he doesn't understand this concept like he thinks he's doing the hard work but what he's doing is he's throwing away everybody else's hard work his scouting Department his you know his G his actual GM like the guy who's crunching contract numbers and these people in the building are being marginalized by that guy's ego and that's a problem problem and that makes you a poor owner what I'd like to call Jerry Jones Jr is Mr haslum Jimmy haslum from the Cleveland Browns he's a poor man's Jerry Jones both literally in terms of his bank account and also the quality of this football team but he has the same problem flying is it Flying Jay Flying Jay remember when he was ripping off truckers so here's a guy who here's a guy who just can't stop listening to the wrong people and also injecting himself into the operation of the organization much like a Jerry Jones the problem is he doesn't have any of Jerry Jones's Acumen Jerry Jones Once Upon a Time was very good he was petty like another thing you want to talk about how you build ill will within your own fan base you take Jimmy Johnson Who was every fan every Fan's favorite coach for winning those two Super Bowls and then you marginalize that guy and ride him out on a rail yeah you're doing your ego causes you to act in a way that is detrimental to the people who pay who keep your lights on Haslam does the same thing he just doesn't have any success to back up his willingness to do this but he also has seemed like he's turned a new Leaf he's allowed their GM and their coach to do their job and he's stopped interfering to a point but but he's also made some decisions yeah the DeShaun Watson thing the DeShaun Watson thing how many of your own fan base are marginalized by this decision when you say hey I'm a woman and I root for this team and now you want me to root for that quarterback and you gave him how much well and you fully guaranteed his contract no one was willing to do that you could have had him on a cautionary deal and instead you gave away the farm and and then Chris did you see they just restructured his deal I was going to bring that up but also also he deshun Watson wasn't interested in Cleveland and then hlam was like fully guarantee that [ __ ] I love Cleveland let's go northeast Ohio I want to live there he quite literally pulled the Kenny Powers MH and that's Haslam's fault and so now you look at them and they're not only in terms of the Optics of the situation but also the financial implications and the fact that he sucks when you put him on the field he has set that franchise back that's bad ownership I believe that that's a poor it's it's poor in terms of your community it's poor in terms of your fan base it's poor in terms of just being an owner who wants to win like you're bad at this and then there's a middle ground and when you start Crossing that and getting towards the other side of the line there's guys like Steve biscotti now Steve biscotti keeps pretty quiet for most owners he speaks now and again stays Off the Grid he's quietly one of the richest owners in the NFL and he looks I Ryan you were in here for it he looks Steve badi right there in that photo looks like he is an extra that should be standing next to Mr lson and Happy Gilmore on the golf course with that [ __ ] jacket and shirt he's so rich he doesn't care what you think about his wardrobe that's what I love like I remember being at Templeton Landing one night here in Buffalo back when it was still a nice restaurant now it's a mess but when it was still like white linen like linen napkins and formal sit down and very kind of like I don't want to say stuffy but a little stuffy we're at this restaurant and this guy walks in and he's wearing Dockers like like boat shoes Docker shorts and this Hawaiian shirt that's just ducks and fishing hats and he goes to the bar and the guys I'm with are like look at that guy ah he looks like [ __ ] go no you don't understand that guy's got Fu money they're like oh yeah okay that I go no no no watch sure enough this 26y he had to be probably in his early 60s mid-60s this 25-year-old blonde just 10 walks through the door goes sits down next to him at the bar they have a couple drinks and then they get up and they go out front and at the time they had vet service and I watched them pull his Bugatti to the front of the building and I go guys that dude has so so much money he doesn't care what we think yeah this is his version of wearing pajama pants out in public yeah he put on shoes because he had to and so in that way Steve pascotti is kind of like this his team's competitive he's found good he's found a way to keep like not only find but retain good coaches good GMS good talent he he gives his his staff Enterprise to go do things and toay their way he stays out of their way he stays off the map he doesn't make public statements a lot but when called upon he talks about things and he'll when there's issues he shows up and he speaks on them and then otherwise he gets out of the way and just gives his staff everything they need to be competitive and I think it's one of the reasons that the Ravens are perennially a contender every single year regardless of who is taking the helmet quarterback regardless of what the roster looks like because they have good people running the organization ation and that's a direct byproduct of having a good owner right yeah absolutely then you move it along art and Dan Rooney the Rooney family has done an incredible amount for the NFL oh yeah yeah for NF for for the NFL and just NFL coaching and NFL ownership and for what the landscape looks like now today when it comes to coaching and how coaching searches are carried out and kind of how things work they believed in equity and equality and they fought for those things and got them and they thought it was important to just stick to what they thought was true and right about what it was to own a team and give it all the resources it needed to thrive and that's one of the reasons that they have more what is it it's them and the Cowboys right yeah for Super Bowl count yeah yep what is it six six a piece yeah yeah the uh I was going to say we're all in and around the same age I just turned 40 a couple like over a month ago three right there three head coaches in my 40 years on this Earth is what Steelers are Chuck null Bill Cower Mike Tomlin that's it and they've been competitive the entire way yep and that kind of defines what good ownership is not only my competitive but I'm doing the right things by my fans I'm doing the right things by my constituency who live in the area there they're they're known for their charity MH and then at the same time I'm also trying to make I'm trying to pave the way for other people to have better yep who will come after me and that leaves us to who I think belongs on the far end and every bills Fan's Gonna Hate This Robert Craft I strongly disagree and not because I don't like him not because I don't like him not because I don't like him Robert cra has won a ton of games but beyond just being who's won a ton of games well Bill bich who's won a ton of games Bill bellich Tom Brady Tom a ton of games now here's the thing when you look at what good ownership is one of the things and I love that you have this reaction one of the things Bill's fans are loathed to admit is that Robert Craft's philanthropy work is almost unmatched in the NFL you look at all the money that NFL owners spend to just hey I have and most of it for them is a tax write off right like they're doing this to tax not not most of it but they're doing it for the purposes not like hey I actually believe in this cause I'm doing it because I feel like I have to my accountant tells me I got to offload some cash he genuinely believes in it the cancer stuff that he supports because he lost his wife to it the just like the local hospitals who he really puts on for they in Massachusetts and in New Hampshire and in the New England area Because he believes in that and that's important he's helping his entire region his philanthropy is incredible and then you also got to figure all the money he's putting into the pockets of those undocumented Chinese women what allegedly allegedly are we toward citizenship yeah I me I mean I'm not going to lie to you if his wife died if someone's allowed to go hang out it should be that guy because of how much Civic good he's done but everyone listening to this goes this guy didn't you just say he was a uh a full-on rapist some may say that I love it it just it don't come out my mouth correctly I love that the the guys what you don't know if you heard that is he's referencing the Jeopardy episode where it's philanthropist is one of the categories it's the SNL Jeopardy speech will frell Jeopardy skit with Will frell referencing Always Sunny in Philadelphia oh no Charlie Charlie Kelly is on a like a blind date with somebody and he doesn't because he doesn't know how it he's a literate yeah he he's trying to pronounce the word that he's a philanthropist to his dat he was like oh I'm a I'm a full-on rapist and then she's like do you mean philanthropist yeah it does it doesn't come out of my mouth correctly yeah obviously you're a liter Charlie Kelly Jesus Christ so I look at him and I say you had you not only do all these great things you have a lot of money you could throw it around in a lot of ways you do a lot of Civic good at the same time you oversaw a dynasty probably the craziest Dynasty the NFL will ever see who saw oversaw Dynasty and what you had the good sense to do unlike people who have more money than you like Jerry Jones is you took your hands off the fraking wheel and you said I hired good people I trust trust those good people to do their jobs and I'm not going to medal I'm going to sit here and not put my ego because you know that these are all vanity projects if you own a sports team it's because you have an ego and you want you think that you can Steward this thing to being a winner it's the only reason you buy a sports team at all when he found out that hey there's something real happening here and these two are going to be the guys who get it done I'll just I'll step a Di and let them do it because if I medal what happens if you gave Bill bellich and Jerry and Tom Brady to Jerry Jones how long do you think they have with that yeah I mean I I think I think there was more medling towards the end sure because he felt more and more as he was watching the results start to dip that he had to and I I think there's and that almost speaks to the fact that there was never not a want to get involved there was an understanding that I shouldn't rock the boat and I think the way the way he's handled the uh balich thing has I think soured him for I think people that are paying attention should sour them I mean the fact that he went to to Arthur Blank and and badmouth bich to the point where bich didn't get hired get didn't get that job the hit piece that they put out at the the documentary that they called it that they put out about bich that just turned into a [ __ ] on bich I think it was do your job I think it was called that that documentary it just there's a lot that says to me that maybe he was so busy doing the philanthropy and the good which is good I mean you want you know you he's a good guy to give a lot of money to but I would I would argue that he fell ass backwards into a really good situation and and and you know does that but but does that make him a good owner or does make him somebody who you know started on third base and just got lucky with the hire do we know who's do you know his head coaches are over his tenure of ownership Bill parcel's Pete Carroll Bill bich yep now Gerard Mayo we don't know because but that's a pretty good start for your ownership parcel's Pete Carol before he became Pete Carroll and Bill bich and so this but you lost Pete Carroll and yes and this and this is why I like this conversation because it illustrates that even that is subjective we can talk about the hierarchy and it's still subjective right so now if we've established this though and we kind of understand what makes and what doesn't make good ownership and what's objectionable what's able to be debated that brings us to the question Chris if you want to advance this sucker where here does our boy Terry belong and that's a complicated question now I don't know it's complicated where do you fall I put him between I would put him between Jerry Jones probably just below Jerry Jones wow I I honestly think and we've talked about this I've texted you this I honestly think now that Dan Snider's gone I think you could make the case that Terry Pula is the worst owner in the NFL and that's a that's a hell of a thing to say so I'm interested to hear where do you factor in him owning the sabes well I take it as two separate things right I think he's the the worst owner in the NFL and I also think he's the worst owner in the NHL aside from and I don't know a lot about the NHL so you would know more than me on this probably lower or maybe he's a little bit higher than like the coyotes owner I don't even know if the coyotes have an owner I know they don't have a stadium see I'd put and maybe the Blue Jackets I'd put yeah I'd put Pula for the but I I honestly think that when it comes to the Sabers ownership the problem that they've had with the bad hires and treatment of people within the facility I think stems from Kim Pula prior to her her health thing that she meddled too much and I think that might be why Pat LaFontaine left his position as of vice president can I can I tell you the story of how that happened and I'm going to put the allegedly quotes around this but I've heard it from a source that I'm not going to try to refute the sabes begged Pat love hunting to come here and be like a face and kind of hey the thing in with the Islanders didn't work out but it's okay we if you're interested in that we we'd love to have you it would be good for ticket sales it would be good for the general community's feeling about where we're going when when was this what year was this for God this must have been 15 15 or 14 a few years after he bought the team but what this what this is the pat La Fontaine situation and we're in because again I don't know anything about hockey so the La Fontaine situation that we're in we're kind of in it again with Lindy Ruff because it's the equivalent of bringing back Marv Levy to save to save face with the fan base that's how I view the Lindy Ruff hire the pat La fon hire which also was the uh uh Ted Nolan rehire it was just trying to like oh let's go back to when we were good just like Marv ley's GM yeah so Kim pugula was given the ability to object to a lot of things and kind of weigh in on hockey topics in the direction of the team and be the de facto GM and the problem is that when you hire a a guy like Pat La antain who's played the game and understands the game and thinks that someday he like he saw himself being like a Chris Drury sure yeah hey I can go be a GM of a team because I understand the game I played it at a high level and hockey one of the it seems I have an eye for talent and hockey and basketball seem to be along that same where that tends to translate 13 134 1415 when we brought in La Fontaine and Ted Nolan so what happens is two of the worst seasons that they've had since pugula took over Kim pugula continue to try to assert herself in terms of where we should be acting as a hockey team and what moves we should be making or shouldn't be making now let's be clear though as we continue this conversation we're counting Kim as an extension of Terry correct like this is and this is the thing because he empowered his wife to have resp empowering her to have these responsibilities but this is where I look at Terry Pula and I feel like this belongs in his jacket and it's always been in my mind when we have these conversations obviously that doesn't go well no when you have a a jock who's being told by someone who never played the game hey you're wrong and I think this so he just told her flat out you don't know what you're talking about and you need to leave my office and so then it was mandated that he apologize for not not not the fact that he said it but the way he said it and his explanation was that if I have to sugarcoat myself then this Rel relationship isn't going to work sure because you're putting someone who doesn't know the game you're making me work with someone who doesn't know the game and I have to talk to them about it and then I also have to cow toow to them sure while I'm doing it and the Mandate was made you need to apologize and that's why he left the building like Chris his tenure only lasted he was only a couple months yeah and then he abruptly left the building and was never seen again sure because that's the same way he left the last job the second they asked him to compromise himself is what he thought he could be as a professional in the hockey sense he's like I don't need this I will just leave and he did and I applaud him for doing it because I don't know that I could take advice and criticism and direction from someone who does not understand the sport that I'm we're talking about yep so now he's back is he still working with the NHL is he still believe so yeah so you have this and I look at that and I look the same thing as a Long Snapper unless he does something egregious you don't hear his name so I'm sure he's still with the NHL so I look at Terry and I go you were the one who put this whole structure together you thought it would be a good idea to pair your wife with pet law Fontaine and say that they should work together but then you also in a way kind of marginalized him well I I me here here's here's what I'll say I'll jump in because I I feel like and and Chris and folks listening can correct me if I'm wrong I I feel like I feel like Drew you're you're beating around the bush a little bit about this right like Okay so let's talk about when Terry Pula took over for the Sabers let's just start there right it was the first team he bought into the first thing is he paid 189 million right he got the Sabers he got the rights to the the the uh Nighthawks in Rochester and he got the bandits proceeds to sell off the rights to The Nighthawks they take the name they take the history of that team in Rochester that had won titles in the lacrosse league uh they get moved to Halifax and now that's that that's the the team that's in Halifax the the the lacrosse league they took the entire history of The Nighthawks right Halifax Thunderbirds yeah so the Halifax Thunderbirds they they he that's such a terrible name right so that's so that's one so he buys a team for 189 million the year he takes over they are 12th in the league in spending not bad right and he starts with a statement Chris what was it hockey Heaven no the uh uh from this point our only existence is to win the Stanley Cup so what does he proceed to do from that point forward they are in in in year order ranks in terms of what they've spent on their team they go from 12th in the 1112 season and 89 points they go to 21st 24th 28th 27th 17th which was the year that the um okos OK poso right is that how you say I don't know I don't know watch K is silent aoso aoso and um O'Reilly that's that's the year that they signed big deals and their um signing bonus up by now have two open so he's 16th that he's 17th that year 27th the next year 16th which is the year that the Jack eel extension kicks in he's getting paid 10 million a year 10th which is the last year that eel with the team they then trade him to the Vegas Knights and they go to 20 8 31st 32nd 29th last year 24th so far at least this year so what about the way he spent C money tells you that he has any interest in winning hockey games in the NHL just again just looking at the empirical evidence if I told you that there was an owner in the NHL and he said from now on our only focus is winning hockey games and he proceeds to have three seasons where he spent more than 21st in salary for the entire and never makes the playoffs all right by the way he also rode that to a 750 million valuation of the franchise and the only reason that the franchise is worth so much is because the market the Buffalo Market in the NHL is worth $250 million of that 750 million the franchise is worth $ 290 the market is worth 250 the stadium the stadium that he also purchased and has supposedly carried about wants to invest in they are the third that that stadium is the third least valuable stadium in the NHL behind Arizona who doesn't have a stadium and Columbus are the only two teams in the NHL that have SE have stadiums worth less than Terry Pula are you factoring in the new roof and the new video board I am factoring in that as of as of the most recent publishing of the Forbes valuation how franchises are valued they value it at the third least valuable we new roof on the arena and we got a new video board so so Terry Pula has come in and since he purchased the the Sabers he's spent two years because of Jack eel he's spent top 15 in salary since then nothing below nothing above 21st but he's increased his investment 297 per. because that team that he paid 189 for is now worth 750 million it's like me and crypto I I love the day that Chris almost locked himself out of his crypto wallet it was awesome the Panic on his face yes because I almost lost thousands of dollars so I hear this and yet this is a bills podcast so let's talk about the bills like that what you just said hit me now I want to try to make a I want to try to segue into the bills because I want people who are maybe just watching this and don't care about what seems like almost intentional mismanagement of a franchise for profit I want to talk about what our experience has been with Terry as a Bills fan now another thing that I have on good authority that I'll I I might actually be killed if I talk about how I know this but what I'll say is when the EXT when the initial extensions for Brandon bean and for Shawn mcder were rolled out like shortly like covid kind of whole thing they there was a the whole lot written into those contracts about what Authority the owners themselves had and did not have to metal within the structure of the organization and unfortunately a lot of it had to do with just what you would think would be the most basic innocuous things that the structure of our PR department they said hey we see the mess that's going on over with psse we watch this thing that you're doing with the Sabers just burn to the ground what is psse Pula Sports entertainment I don't think that exists nope not anymore at the time it did is a shell of itself they said we basically are going to alienate you from from the building who's who's you who's you is Terry and Kim so they did so so in the contract of of of being in mcder supposedly there's verbiage where Terry and Kim cannot touch the PR department they have well no they have very limited power within the structure of the organization they can still fire sea and sure sure that's that's any owner's job right sure I mean it's his team right his he owns it you can't tell me I can't fire you right but within the structure under those two men there is very little terry Pula or Kim Pula or any member of the Pula family can actually do to change the structure that exists within the the front office within the the PR department within the actual day-to-day Ops groups so Chris it sounds to me like somebody heard the pat La Fontaine story and decided to build that into their contracts because somebody wanted to get out front of they wanted to handle things a little bit more professionally than Pat La Fontaine did but they also didn't want they didn't trust that there wasn't going to be someone knocking on their door coming in and telling them how to run their franchise and for as much as I personally defend Terry Pula it is also damning that I not only know this but then I also have this other thing over here where I have to look at how Terry has handled everything about his ownership of the team now I want I want to dive I want to kind of dive into what your what Your allegiances to bouet are cuz it's interesting to me to listen because he he's the Savior my wife my wife has admitted she is one of the people who he saved her hockey team after galiso decided he didn't want it and that so no matter what happens no matter how bad they are no matter whatever no matter what he does gisan was just holding it until he could get a legit buyer sure sure and he did that well almost like giso was a good businessman because I like him for being honest about his investment in the team she credits Terry Gula was saving the thing that she loves and she will openly admit we were talking about it this afternoon but we were walking around the house together that when I was running this whole podcast themed by her because I wanted to see your reaction and she goes you're going to talk about Terry and I go that's the energy and she goes I admit that I'm willing to give him a pass on a lot of things because I still have the thing that I grew up with it's a piece of my identity it's something I love she has the the the Buffalo from the interior like the swords cross and the charging Buffalo she has it tattooed on her rib cage she wanted it now she had that long before I met her I thought it was I thought it was interesting I'm like I love the bills I don't have a bills tattoo yeah she loves this team and so she is willing to give him a pass for any transgression because in her mind she has what she still can watch and see and go to a game and enjoy because of that guy okay and there is some of that sure and maybe there's a little piece of me that also looks at the fact that the bills are still here and that they did managed to negotiate a contract that that he had the good sense to just go to Jerry Jones and kiss the ring and get us a Stadium built here in Buffalo so that the team doesn't leave there is a part of me that says listen you at least understood where you were in the pecking order you knew what this was well I mean let's let's be clear though I mean Pula didn't keep the team in Buffalo because he has a heart and wanted to keep the team in Buffalo right he kept the team in Buffalo because they gave him a stadium deal when he wanted a stadium deal and now his team is worth 200% more than it was when he bought it but if there's something that sticks in my craw and that I can be critical about a guy who I support and that's the problem people listening to this podcast will go oh you're a hater no no no no no that that moniker is too easy to throw around I don't hate Terry Pula I'm also willing to admit that he is failable one of these ways you've had all of this stuff happening around your team whether it's the failures in the playoffs whether it's your coach having a questionable grip on you know we've we've sat here and called him John Fox and questioned whether or not he should be replaced now I don't again I don't know what his based on these contracts I I don't know what what is necessary for him to take action I don't know if it has to be Brandon Bean who makes that move I don't know I don't know if he actually has the authority now to fire the GM I I know he can fire the GM right because it's his team yeah I mean he can fire anybody right it's just how much is it going to cost him to fire them bang so how much money gets tied up in this and are there escalators in there if you fire them for whenever wherever in the contract but he paid $ 1.9 billion in cash for the team so I mean go drill another well here's yeah he said that right and then he tried and it failed and this is where I can look at him and go you're also still failable is because you tried to drill more Wells and you you couldn't you have a small oil and gas company now and it's not going well um you can fact check me on that you you guys listeners and yeah call in if you know I'll fact check you right now the president is liberal there you go great I love how Chris manages to work one into everyone's Zinger into every show so this is my big beef if I were to say that I have one you all these things going on with your team where are you I don't know like it's one thing if you're Steve biscotti and I guess he's trying to take a page out of Steve Biscotti's book but when things come up Steve biscotti goes to the press and he talks to him and he's he's accessible and it helps you as someone who's watching all these things between this various things luckily he only owns one one sports franchise if you had multiple things you would expect that guy to be somewhat accessible especially if they're not going well Terry Pula has not spoken to the media and when I say spoken to the media I mean spoken publicly to anyone with a microphone or who can take a quote with a pen and a pad since 2020 and if you want to talk about the and that was at the like the conference for hiring Kevin Adams for the Sabers right yep he hasn't talked about the bills publicly since 2019 the bills were a very different team in 2019 than they are now here today in their current iteration you look at everything that's happened between who we thought we were in 2019 at the owners meetings that summer and where we are now we're two different football teams one was a a feel-good story it was hey you're competing you're making the playoffs this is you're you're on the upswing this is going to be great M and then the other one is a team that's competed for like been in Super Bowl contention where's your owner he nowhere to be found and here's what I don't like I don't like knowing that it I understand the personal things going on in his life and I would never because I'll be honest with you I'll love with you if something were to happen to my wife I would quit this podcast I would quit all of my fantasy football leagues I would quit everything that I do and I would focus on what's the most important to me and so in that way I I don't want to tr have to hold this against him right at the same time I don't like that every single piece of news every quote everything we get is from some empty suit from the organization well we're going through what is a stadium a stadium agreement and a a season where you fell below expectations not once but twice I want to hear from you I want to know that you actually care and that this isn't just a cash cow for you and you're not just cashing checks that you you are also invested in this and I don't get that and that is frustrating to me as a fan and it's also frustrating when you consider where we are in this organization because you figure we came out of like ter pagul is only here because our previous owner was also absentee except he had actual medical reasons to do so the guy was literally so old that he needed assistance to walk around at training camp but he was still out there he was still doing the things he was still talking to people and making public statements and when I look at who Ralph Wilson was and maybe we've been spoiled when I look at what Ralph Wilson was until he was bedridden and scile and just unable to run this franchise competently and he had to turn it over to people like Russ Brandon Terry Pula is already r us Brandon now what where do we go from here yeah I so I I mean I would be interested to hear from you drew where where do you put him on your your fancy chart that you made and this is the thing in the hierarchy because I came into this conversation and with an idea and then as we've talked through it or as I've talked at you guys I've talked myself into a whole different and I'm just trying to reconcile it in my head well while you reconcile so so here's here's where I'm at with it I mean ter Terry pagul we already talked about the Sabers right I think Chris I don't know anything about hockey I'm not going to pretend I know anything about hockey all I know is what I saw when it came to valuation what he spent on the team the quote when he took the team over and the fact that not only have they not won anything but they haven't even made the playoffs since he's been the owner of the franchise so that's one the other thing is from a from a season ticket holder perspective as we so affectionately called ourselves at the beginning of the show we're both season ticket holders I just hit year 20 with my season tickets I got the email today I got the email today congratulations on 20 uh you're more than welcome to come watch away game at the stadium if you want here's your two options you can have two tickets even though I have four season tickets you can have two tickets to come watch the so anyway what what I've wait what game is it uh it's either the uh Dolphins game or the Texans game are my two options okay so I I mean I don't know what the okay is what gives a [ __ ] about I mean what okay so anyway so so when so when I initially bought season tickets right I bought season tickets 20 years ago I was uh a a freshman in college 20 years ago I just just graduated from high school I was a freshman in college got season tickets to the bills from Brockport you know Sundays of home games drove because they weren't good enough to have night games back then so every game was Sundays at 1:00 the good old days right since what was your price uh I think I paid like $280 a ticket cuz you're right across the aisle from us yeah rock this was back when it was the laat blue rock pile this was the like yeah so when we bought in for the first time back in like 200 it was 2011 when we beat the Patriots it was the next so 2012 when I had my seasons and 2012 we're out there and I'm paying $240 for my tickets for the year and I remember my girlfriend at the time coming home from a meeting and going yeah I was talking to my co-workers and I told them you were a season ticket holder and I told them you only paid $245 and they told me that you're lying to me because NFL tickets are way more expensive and I was like not the bills yeah yeah no so I mean so since so since the the I've had season tickets not right away but since Terry Pula has taken over uh and you guys probably can speak to this because you had season tickets around that same time right the game day experience has gotten in my opinion progressively worse oh 100% so the the onfield when I say game day experience I'm talking about when you walk into the into the the gates you get through the gates you get to your seat you watch the pregame you watch the halftime show every year it's just gotten progressively worse the season ticket holder benefits have gotten progressively worse you and I that's kind of what was the impetus of this whole conversation yeah they sent like you watch around the league all this cool stuff that they send to season ticket holders and I had tweeted out I go it's it's that fresh prince of belir meme where he's just in the middle of the GIF where he's in the middle of an empty room looking around like Hey where's my you know hey where is everybody and I was like hey you know it's weird but what do Bills fans get because I see that I see the Las Vegas Raiders who suck are giving their fans this crazy care package that's like a NFL films music of like you know the the the the wind is a raider yeah yeah and it's that music with a light up treasure map that's kind of the stadium and then tickets like commemorative ticket things for each game it's a cool little token thing to give them and here's the here's the trick that we haven't gotten a flag in five years here's the trick that in my opinion that that in my opinion Terry Pula has played on everybody because when when we say things like that online the response that we get is well yeah but the Raiders suck so they have to have cool gifts like that to get people to buy season tickets but I mean what has the what have the bills given what have the bills done to Warrant dialing those things back they've given you a absolutely top three heart-wrenching moment in terms of sports in in the 13 seconds game they've given you a woefully uninspired performance at home against the the Bengals The Following Season they've given you a a team that is unwilling to address the needs of the of the team year in and year out we're rolling out a wide receiver core this year that you could make an argument is bottom five in the NFL well and the saler cap plays into that I don't blame for the see and this is where we differ I don't blame pugula for the what goes on in the field oh I can I can blame Pula but I think everything else that no no because they've boxed him out and that's where I can say hey but but what you but what yought spots of you being you is that you can't he let them box him out so there in lies the issue right it's like it's everything is is fine if you've got the right people at the helm and by all accounts when he got mcder when he got Bean he had the right guys at the helm right that's what everyone believed I still think you can make the argument that Bean's the right guy right he's made mistakes every GM makes he's trying to write the ship the trade I think goes a long way with that I think there's a lot of questions being scouting Department in the the the group that Brandon Bean as a GM has been able to build from a from a pro scouting and a college scouting Department standpoint he finds value has he made has he personally made mistakes when pushing certain agendas of course the Boogie bash him thing we're never going to let that go yeah but you will look at him and say that is a good NFL GM right but the but that but then the questions I've made them myself the questions about mcder about you know what he is and and ability to lead as a coach But ultimately you as an owner have allowed yourself to get boxed in to the point where you can't address it if you probably can't address it if you do think that there is a problem you're not vocal about the fact that PR is not working 13 seconds the idea of a super yach remember that they were like oh the super yacht needs guys we have to when you allowed your wife to take the podium instead of you speaking and she said hey our family needs to maintain a certain lifestyle how did you not vet that how did you not know your wife was going to say something that was going to fall on deaf ears and how do you how do you not walk that back right like he's he's he's an absentee owner the the team has not so you look at the well you look at the four pillars yeah we laid it out Jack Perry Derby Allen and Sammy Gara and I don't know who the other gu Jero I four pillars of aew I hate you so much I mean so I think I mean I think when you combine all of those things that we talked about with the fact that when it comes to the fan base the people that attend football games or are willing to attend football games I think you can make the argument that every year for for at least the last five six seven years he's done nothing to indicate that he cares about the people that show up to a game we get a shitty cover band every you know and and hey people who play in cover bands I'm always late Paul weski I love you man play a cover band you guys are really good no offense man I don't want to see you play before a Bills game right like I don't want to walk into the stadium and hear you playing for the umth season onth game in a row I don't want to hear you play thunder struck right like it it gets old man and you've done nothing to improve the stadium the food options are still limited you don't give anything in terms of a season ticket holder gift that's not why I get season tickets if I gave a [ __ ] about the gift I'd save the money on the season tickets and I'd just go buy a bunch of stuff but the fact remains when you talk about loyalty if you want to if you want to if you want to talk about loyalty and draw lines in the sand because that's what people love to do right they love to dictate how other people are fans you've been a season ticket holder I've been a season ticket holder I can argue that because I'm a season ticket holder I'm a bigger fan than a lot of people out there because I pay money to go watch this team year in and year out I was there for lman I was there for Tren Edwards I was there for your best wild I was there for you know I was there I was there when Ryan Denny was your best pass rusher right like can you imagine Chris what this podcast would have been if I had been a host well well uh JP lman was our quarterback like Chris Kelce was the best player on your roster when I was season ticket holder at the time Kelly hulc when that whole thing oh Wily wony I was there I was there I was I was a fan to the point where I said man that fad Lewis he might have something like I I said that in the stadium that's how that's how so this explains why you're so when you talk about all of that when you talk about all of that and then yes and now you're asking me to get ready to pay psls right you're getting ready to ask me for money up front to to to to get into this new stadium and this is the year that you decide to not only take the bills box concept which is don't even get me started about just giving me a percentage of my own tickets back so that I can go spend them at the bill Store buy drinks on it but now you've lowered that amount now you've cut that amount to the lowest that it's been since you started the bills Buck sir yeah it's you make me pay for parking individually you don't make it easy for you to for people to park at the lot you don't make it easy for people to get to games there's no forward planning there's no indication that you care about the people that come to your games week in and week out beyond the fact that you put on a fancy show because Jerry Jones knows how to do business and you handed the keys over to him to go out and sell psls which if the reports today are true you are woefully underperforming in terms of what your your season ticket sales are as of June 30th you've sold 3600 season tickets to the new stadium Which is less than 10% of the total capacity the there's a there's a problem there's a problem and the one thing that we're looking for as season ticket holders as fans is for someone to come out and say there's a problem and your owner is nowhere to be seen there's a quote unquote hit piece put out about your coach that calls his entire ility to lead a football team into question and the one person who could have quelled all of those rumors and made everything go away refused to step forward and go to bat for his guy and that's probably one of the things like so for everybody here if we want to bring this thing full circle so you you look at the four pillars of what makes a good sports owner franchise within the community I mean you're kind of doing that they've done everything to do away with that the one Buffalo concept what happened to one Buffalo what what what did Kim Pula say about the that was the bar downtown Kim's not here anymore oh no no she said it was underwhelming and she thought she wanted this is coming from someone who knows the bar manager and the kitchen manager of the the facility when it first opened at 716 when they built that place Kim pugula walked in and was unimpressed and said that it was underwhelming and that she thought that she would be getting something more for their money yeah she wanted something a little more white collar and unfortunately that's the attitude that I think that they've taken to this and now that when they realize they weren't going to get it they've treated a lot of things from a distance franchise within the community I don't know best franchise in the community because of the community yes Bill fans and Sab fans and the people of buffalo in the surrounding area city of good neighbors right like there's a reason that there's franchise in the community it's not because of Terry customer focus and Serv leadership absolutely not absolutely not success in their field absolutely not argue well debate it's not debatable how many titles does he have how many no I mean how many titles does he have understand because we talked about at the beginning of the show at the end of the day Jerry Jones has the sway he has because he's got two Super Bowls yep right so three three right so what success I mean anyone who wants to hit me up on on Twitter on any social media can they find you they can find me on Ryan lilore RSN on Twitter feel free to slide into the DMS if you don't want to put it out publicly but I will ask you what success has Terry Pula bought to brought to this team and understanding the social contract he's asking of you and I are are are are pro new stadium we've done shows about this I don't have I don't have an issue personally with the psls right but the way that it's been handled has been so incredibly ton deaf that it's astounding to me how toned deaf this franchise continues to be regarding asking a blue collar working class below median income in terms of large cities and NFL franchise cities in the in the United States asking them to Shell out this kind of money for psls and not addressing it head-on it's again an absentee owner and an absentee franchise who has said you will get your prices when you come for your stadium tour we will not announce them ahead of time which probably makes sense from a fiscal perspective sure I'm I how do you run supply and demand right like how do you run supply and demand if I know that I can sit and wait for $500 psls why would I pay a, right incredibly shrewd but at the end of the day every franchise that has done this process has announced what the what the psls would look like right like so so social impact I mean he he's he has no idea from someone who again we talked about this being a right how many he has no idea what the people of Buffalo go through on a day-to-day basis to support this franchise and he and if comes off as he doesn't care here's the worst part you know who this just makes me think of as we kind of close this all out Donald Trump I go you know what funny Donald Trump so there's a show would Donald Trump be a better owner the bills hang on I texted it to Ryan and I have to find it there is a trump tweet where he oh yes yes yes I remember you sending me this oh my God please let did you say something about the uh in the meantime while we look for that Drew I still want your answer where do you put him on your on your sliding scale that you put together here's the problem now that we've started talking about it my scale has changed and I think that a lot of people should if you're willing to be subjective I can't find but Donald Trump had a TW you sent it to me on so many different platforms I got I sent here no here's this if you want to know where Terry paga ranks as far as ownership among the 32 he is the equivalent of probably uh Andy Dalton as a backup so that's my equ painfully average yes now here's what I'll say there's a thing though and the guy who said it is f for it Trump no fired No in fact it's a more famous quote than that El Davis once said just win baby here's the problem if your team just if your teams just won no one would care about any of this no one would care about and this is why I think that this season in the fall the subsequent Seasons that follow are going to be so interesting because I think that as you V Illustrated there is already grounds to have ill will if you want if you live on that side of the fence if you're willing to at least hear crit like if you're someone who's critical or is at least in the middle you're willing to hear criticism of Terry Pula and if you're someone who lives on the side of I don't care what he does blah blah blah blah blah there's a shelf life to that but if he were to Win It quills everything if one title if this team wins a title under Terry pula's ownership he will be able to do no wrong in my eyes after everyone has listened to me be as critical as I am of him if they win a title I don't care what he does I don't care what he does the rest of the the rest of his life what that's why as we're sitting here I almost think that what I should have done was just put a graphic of el Davis sliding across that entire graphs going just win baby cuz he knew he was smart enough to know that if you just win everything else figures itself out and in that way guys we have to hope that the Buffalo Bills and the Buffalo Sabers just find a way to win that's it that's all we can hope for guys this has been a really fun exercise and I like I like talking about these things Chris we still haven't gotten him to put Terry pugula on the I'm just going to throw that out there and and you never will we got a live show to we got to get out of here guys this has been a lot of fun I'm Drew gear that's Chris Krueger that's season ticket holder Ryan LEL and this is Benny rockpal report