The Secret Sunday Session with Curtis McGrath

good afternoon everyone and thank you for joining us for another secret Sunday session today today I'm joined by Curtis McGrath and it's really exciting because this is our final episode of our four weeks of our men's mental health movember month where we've been trying to Chuck out all of our podcasts talking about men's mental health so I'm really thrilled to have characters on here today to share his story um so no further Ado Curtis do you just want to explain to everyone who may not know who you are who are you and what is it that you are doing with yourself now hi yeah thanks Ashley for having me and um yeah so a little bit about myself I um am a sort of a wounded soldier who then transitioned into paralympic sport um I've had a year off this year but I continue and continuing to sort of progress towards the Paris Paralympics hopefully um and that's pretty much taking up a lot of my time but for the year off I've um done a bit of public speaking and um just a bit of uh counsel and committee work within my athlete space so yeah it's giving me nice and busy absolutely amazing and if we dive straight into your story and you did say that you are a wounded soldier um for those who don't know do you want to explain a little bit about what happened in your situation yeah so um I'll try guys briefly but as descriptors as I can because it can be a bit of a long story um but I was in the Australian Army um in 2012 actually enlisted in 2006 as a combat engineer um and in 2012 I deployed to Afghanistan and our role in Afghanistan is to look for and provide explosive devices homemade landmines IEDs and things like that so um and you could say that I did my job very well and I did find my an IED um albeit not the not the most uh comfortable way of doing it I stepped right on top of it and it designated beneath me and and took both my legs um instantly I was also the Combat First Data which is like an unofficial medic for my squad um so I had to instruct the the team through the first day initially uh through the first aid process until um Cordy who came over he was the other Combat First aider for the other Squad I came over and sort of took over the scene and instructed them through that initial first aid and you know tourniques and IV fluid and morphine and things like that um and you know like I can say oh you can but actions you know are the reasons why I'm here and um there was some very brave men around me that um you know conducted themselves with absolute courage and bravery and saved my life um and uh it's probably you know definitely one of the reasons why I'm here today to be able to talk to you but um in that sort of process of getting me off the battlefield onto the helicopter which is about you know 35 40 minutes um sort of wait um as the the guys carried me along in the stretch up um I said to them um I'll be I'll be right guys uh I'll I'll figure something out we'll maybe I'll just go to the Paralympics or something like that so um and that that wasn't necessarily A a promise of action it was more of a promise of hope because I was very aware that the trauma that I was going through uh laying on the ground there um was not just my trauma it was their trauma too and if I could say something that would hopefully uh give them hope um or give them some sort of optimistic outcome of the situation because it was pretty dire um and you know ninety percent of the the people that sustain injuries that I received were don't survive so um you know and it wasn't yeah it's just something I said in the moment it wasn't something that I you know uh it didn't you could say I planted the seed to what I became later on but at at that moment it was just you know the passing thought to hopefully ease some trauma so um and then and fast forward about four years and I managed to to Don the green and gold and line up at the Rio paralympic games so obviously there's a lot to break down in between all that so I'm sure you've got some questions there yeah like where do I start but I want to start with that moment when you know you said that you made that comment to the people around you and that we were trying to be hopeful for them but how did you stay strong for yourself in that moment um I think there was there was a bit of purpose in the initial part in the First sort of 20 21 minutes there was a lot of first aid to be done and it was something that we had been trained specifically uh to to do um myself and Cordy um and we were the both the combat first datas as I said before so we were trained in IV fluid in traumatic amputations in uh morphine distribution and so we we understood and I understood very acutely that I was all of the above and I needed all of it and I needed needed it very quickly and you know as I said before you know it was the actions of the guys around me that that ultimately saved my life but me having that training allowed me to focus on that stuff and that that action that was required so that was able that allowed me to have the sort of something to think about you know not I wouldn't say a distraction because it was you know on purpose and it was you know if it wasn't done that was you know death so um having that purpose and that that um that focus on that task allowed me to sort of put all my energy and thoughts into that moment obviously there were some some you know bad thoughts I wouldn't say bad thoughts but um obvious thoughts is probably the better way you know am I going to die um you know my life is over or my life has changed or not that you're aware of the the absolute complete change but um having that sort of realization that your your life is now not what it was before like literally 10 minutes ago so it's obviously I'm going to say Obviously a lot because it's it is just what how do you comprehend what's happening because it's happening right in front of you and it's happening to you and that's that's the difficult part but you know that that focus and that purpose is a lot I think it allowed me to process or in a short term what was happening and what needed to be done I would imagine as well during that time it would have been quite painful how do you switch up that pain and go I have a job to do and it's all about survival right now um well there's there's obviously three reactions human reactions that everyone or or most people display um given a situation like that and that's fight flight or freeze and in that situation I couldn't run away but um at the same time you know there was a an obvious thing that I could treat and that was my fight so I was gonna jump in and try and instruct or or yeah instruct the guys how to do it or even try myself and make sure that they were doing the right job and so I was being paint in the ass and you know I was getting off my elbows and checking that the bandages were tight and the tourniques were tight and all that sort of thing and you know Cody was instructing all of that like he was the one who was in charge and making sure that was actually happening and uh this is probably you know trying to be a part of the the thing but the the pain itself was was incredible and it was it's really difficult for me to explain because it wasn't just like my legs that were sore because they were obviously missing um it was like my hands my head my torso was it all felt the same I wasn't sort of isolating when you cut your finger or get a cuticle or something like that on your finger your fingers sore it was just like my whole body had the same amount of pain so it was so intense um that I didn't realize that my arm my hand was all buggered up it was um you know broke lots of broken bones and and burns and all that sort of thing and because that pain was so severe and and intense I wasn't able to to realize that was happening so I was still using my hand um but you know having that that task and knowing the severity of the injuries probably allowed me to focus on it and you know adrenaline's an amazing um joke that we can produce and given the situation so um that that was something that was was definitely coursing through my veins and looking back on that experience or just at the moment what do you think of that in because a lot of us hearing that story would think you know emotions of like sadness of feeling upset but how do you view that that point in time of your life yeah and I felt then definitely I was I was very upset um I was crying there was guys crying around me it was it was very an emotional experience and given that I knew that how how severe my injuries were um I was quite like I'm four and I'm and having that that height this is a bit of an off topic but um knowing the injuries that I had I had a very large wound up the back of my thigh that went into my femur bone and if I was short say say five six or something like that that wound would have gone up into my torso and you wouldn't be able to put a tourniquet on there so having the height and the the yeah being as tall as I was allowed allowed that injury not to be as severe as it could have been so in that in that sentence knowing that I was very lucky but also in a very precarious position and having that the realization that I could die here was frightening it was scary scary and knowing it that I hadn't well not hadn't sort of thought about this and you know I was 24 years old I was I was the oldest guy in my squad um and having I wouldn't say ignorance maybe maybe naivety just being of the age I was understanding that what life I had ahead of me until that moment and that was that that's something that you know the perspective that I've got now is what is actually a bad day and what what is not so having having all that comprehension um in my mind and I'm realizing it the longer that helicopter would take the closer I'd get to death because by time the 20 minutes was done we'd finished all our first day there was nothing else we could do no no more resources that we had to make the situation better other than making myself comfortable which which I was and thankful for for the actions of the guy especially Cordy and he in in that moment I had this realization that you know this is this is pretty bad I'm I'm probably gonna die here and I had I had written some letters to my family and my girlfriend and my brother and sister and letters like death letters to say I wasn't coming home and and I pulled in my mate and I said mate you're gonna have to print off these letters and send them out to the respected people and that that burden that task that request that I had asked pitch it was um he was the guy who was sort of near me when the blast went off and put on the first tournocades to me he he was 19 and I knew that that burden to put on him was thinking immense like the scale of that uh and I was acutely aware that you know he was probably going to be the one that was gonna suffer the most given his age and um I was I was wrong about that by the way um he took it very well he took it you know as strong as anyone could take it and he just you know stuck to it and you know would have gone through with that task if you know be inevitable that I perceived was going to happen um but it but it didn't so luckily enough that the chop rocked up straight after that so um yeah there's a long answer yeah no but it's real I think that that's what people need to do as well because we only hear and see about this in movies we don't see the real stories and we don't experience it yeah and that's that's something that I think um the movies they dramatize it but not in a way that's unrealistic to the to the the traumatic event they that they capture that in such a way that it can be of it can be too too realistic sometimes like there's this new film on um uh Netflix at the moment um called All Quiet on the Western Front and it's you know a remake of an old book and an old film of the German perspective during World War One and how in this day and age we can you know in in our media we can create these environments that almost feel like you're there and you've got the emotions of these soldiers and especially you know World War one was such a traumatic um War and the the exposure to the trauma that was you know daily um is horrific but in my situation you know having this happened it was just something that you know that that you were aware of because of our media but at the same time you didn't expect it to happen and it was maybe because of our ability and our training and our sort of intelligence and and all that sort of thing so um it it was tricky to comprehend but you know it's not something that we didn't expect it's just something that we oh sorry it's not something we we weren't prepared for it's just but we weren't expecting it and at such a young age like you're talking about your early 20s to have to go through that experience it brings me back to the question of why did you want to invest them um well I always had a sense of um I wouldn't say service I would say more I was attracted to the adventure um you know going overseas and experiencing new things and the Very team orientated nature of the military um and doing it with um with my comrades but you know they become your friends and they almost become your family and given that you live you know pretty much in each other's pocket on a deployment it very much becomes they become your brothers or your sisters or whoever you are and and that that allows for this sort of great connection but also this great adventure with friends and I think that's something that attracts a lot of the younger demographic into the military because um you know going through high school and and maybe a little bit of University and you might come out the other side saying oh you know I'm still Keen to to explore and to experience things but also to give back and I think in my role as a combat engineer we weren't always in a combat situation um you know a lot probably five years of my time in the military was all humanitarian-based so we're building you know medical centers and orphanages and all that sort of thing so there's this great sense of giving back to society and hopefully providing Safety and Security for the places that we go to and that was that was our role in Afghanistan so um you know looking back now you know it's just over 10 years ago and I'm got this this sort of wisdom you could call it that you know that's a bit naive to think that you could go to into a war zone and not expect anything bad to happen but you know that's just the reality of conflict these days and are you trained as you said you go through all this training in the military are you just trained and prepared that you are putting your life on the line not not in a way in which you really understand it um and the actual cost of it and it's only in reflection and time that you you have the sort of the perspective to think man that was close like that was I actually almost gave my life for Australia's values and the freedom and security of the people of Afghanistan and given what happened uh last year in Afghanistan I think we should maybe ignore the fact but at the time 24 years old and then up until last year you know I felt like I made a good contribution to Afghanistan and obviously the military so and it and I only think that you get taught it yeah you get talked about it and then you get maybe a lecturer or your sergeants or your officers might talk to you about it but at that age you've got no sort of comprehension or actually what we're doing and why we're doing it and you're just there that to maybe have a good time and do your job well and you might enjoy a certain aspect of your role and you know I wasn't a great fan of my role but at the same time I had amazing friends and that's why I am sort of stuck up so long wow it's um it's crazy because often do hear the stories of people going to war or in training and saying as well like we don't even know what we're fighting for who we're fighting against and it's it's hard I guess um and as you know being in that environment it would be so challenging to be put through all of that but then talk me through transitioning so going through that experience and then coming out how did you transition back into a new environment one that now you were definitely having to live a different lifestyle yeah and that's again you don't actually realize what you're about to go through and still it until it starts happening and I had this this situation when um I I was first my hand had healed just enough to to transfer myself from the bed this is in the hospital from the bed onto a wheelchair by myself um and you use a slide board um so anyone who's been through a sort of a spinal injury and or not even spinal or like a major legendary and you slide off the bed onto the wheelchair and um I could do that for the first time myself and I had this great sort of tragic Epiphany realization that I'm now a disabled person and it wasn't until this point that now I realized that I I now needed Prosthetics wheelchairs driving modification searches just have a normal normal life and that was that was really difficult for me to to process um Yeah I broke down there's this photo I I've got from my time in hospital and Rachel my my wife um my girlfriend at the time she was next to me and and like the photo was taken by the physio because it was the first day of Physio and um like immediately like two seconds after the photo it was just like dawned on me you could almost read it in my eyes and it was really difficult going from a fit healthy active fully able um 24 year old now to in my mind at that moment had all that taken away from me and you know I I I assumed and I thought that you know I'd heal I'd get my Prosthetics be up and walk out of the hospital and it's so much bigger than it's so much more uh in that that process of healing that it's not just about you know putting Prosthetics on it's about all the muscles and all the all the people and all the time and all the energy that you expand just trying to get to that one point and it was almost that I I had a realization and that I this was about to be the next phase and that was that was quite difficult so um going off to Physio and Rachel who was with me as I said um was very important during this time because I I was very demobile I was very pessimistic I didn't see much hope for the future I didn't see any opportunity ahead of me and um she sort of consoled me firstly and you know made me feel very loved which was amazing but also she she gave me a bit of perspective on you know how about we we set a goal how about we like try and focus on something that could get me through it and that was you know probably the most important statement that anyone said to me in the hospital and it was is all about sort of re-changing my focus to doing thinking about what I could do rather than what I couldn't and that's I think that's probably the most important part of when you have a traumatic injury that changes your life whether you know um you you blow your knee in a footy game then your footy careers overall you you know a career ending percussion and Sport for example but or if you're in a car crash and you you break your pelvis and you get some paralysis in your leg or something you know something traumatic in a way and it's and that perspective allowed me to focus on what I was trying to achieve and where I was going rather than where I've been and what I whatever what my situation was now and that's important to think about those things and reflection and learn and experience and process and review but how do you move on from that and that was now that I've broken it down and think thought about it a lot and told this story a lot I Now understand that having that that person in your corner to to help you through it and look forward is is instrumental to Improvement um and that's what I did so I was like well I might as well go after Physio and do as much as I can and try and get up walking on for when the guys got home from Afghanistan three months later and and that was that was sort of the catalog towards my my mentality to change and look forward to the future and that was that was super important sounds amazing so much physical growth in all of that those baby steps and being patient with your body but you also went through something extremely traumatic that would have traumatized Us in mentally how did you cope with that and how did you get support to really process what would happen um interestingly um we've been told in the military that when we were exposed to a horrific event of the nature in which I had been through you would get PTSD post-traumatic stress disorder um and that's that was a no-brainer completely obvious completely what happens that's just what happens so this is with their signs and symptoms this is you know be ready for it when you experience situations or witness something like this and I was like oh right here we go so this is going to be another fun thing to have to go through and um there's a lot of sarcasm there if anyone's um didn't get that um and trying to identify that I had PTSD was really difficult so I was in hospital thinking you know like where's the bad dreams why aren't I you know anxious all the time why am I not worried about the room or what why am I not worried about that loud noise well what's something's wrong with me I don't have pdfc what's going on and so I spoke to the nurse and the nurse then got the psychiatrist to come in and did like a psych assessment on me and we went through the story a little bit and you know as much as a two-hour session can do and he sort of came to the the opinion that I was okay there was sort of no post-traumatic stress signs and symptoms that were displaying or there was nothing that he was concerned about and I was like oh that's a bit strange considering what we'd been told so I think what they the military was trying to do is make me aware of the signs and symptoms and and therefore you can identify when you do need some assistance or help in psychiatric care or a counseling or even just a chat with friends and family um about your mental health and about how you feel emotionally and mentally um and that was that was kind of odd for me because you know my training had taught me a lot and helped save my life but yet it was wrong in this aspect and that that sort of lays out a bit of an interesting sort of perspective that it doesn't matter who you are going through a traumatic situation everyone experiences it differently based on their you know their upbringing their ethnicity their religion their all their prior experience of their life and then there's genetics as well we can throw in that you know some people have more um predisposition to mental health issues um and you know I had nothing traumatic happened to me in my earlier life my parents are in a loving relationship still and and was and and my brothers and sisters are healthy and it was it was very odd for me to have to go through this and and couldn't find how I was resilient um and I think it was because of the support that was around me and and having that that um uh that support to look forward to the future with with Rachel and by my side and and having that love and care around me but also having a bigger support network behind me from the military from the veterans community um and then you know from my school friends as well so it in a long way around like having this realization that I was sort of healthy and mentally healthy um in the best way I could put it um it allowed me to sort of make the next step forward in order to look forward to where I was going um and as I said before what I could do rather than what I couldn't and maybe I can talk about having a lot of that support around you were you willing to utilize that support where talking and talking about experience and opening up about how you're feeling yeah and I had a I had a rather interesting um situation whilst I was in hospital I I got asked to do a TV interview with um tvnz and Sunday which is like the equivalent of 60 Minutes in New Zealand and we did have Sunday in Australia but in New Zealand they said oh can we come over and film and I was like yeah let's do that so he came over and they filmed it and they did the interview you know the typical sort of dark room and the camera and I only bought one camera over so it meant that when they filmed it I had to do it three times so I had to tell my story as difficult as that was at that that point in time three times within two hours so it was it was quite a tricky emotional journey to go through but what that did it allowed me to talk about it show emotion and and because I was in we did this interview in my parents house in a safe environment with knowing that my my parents were just like through the door and we could stop and have a breather and all that sort of thing and and having that process it was almost like a um a session with a psychologist but having that time to to talk about it and to process through my words out loud uh allowed me to come to terms with what what had happened and you know that was only two hours but after that that was hard and that was you know thinking about what I'd said and did I say it right to the the sequence of events but allowed me to start to process what had happened and at this time I was at home because it was my first home visit um to my parents and then I went back to hospital the next morning and just having this sort of realization that if we if I told talked about it and told my story I'd then sort of piece it all together and it started to make me think about well you know if I can continue to to talk about my experience and what happened on on the 23rd of August of 2012 I can I can sort of review and reflect and process it in a way in which is quite vocal and people can ask questions and it makes me think about it in a different perspective and and all that sort of thing so I think you know is is society knows that men have been told to bottle their feelings up and hide them away just having a talk about a situation um can really do a an amazing sort of process of um review and healing in that way and it's amazing because it sounds like we'll be going through that in opening up and up and it's evident that really sharing what you've been through and all those emotions that come up for you do help with healing process so I think that's a really important message to share out there but in saying that as well why originally I mean you found this out you know going through it all and after talking about it why did you first start to share your story why did you say yesterday um mainly because uh in New Zealand I knew I wouldn't be able to travel for a few months and I wanted my friends and family because I'm originally from New Zealand to to to know what happened um and you know I wasn't going to ring up every single person and my family and friends to say oh yo this is what happened um it was more about having their having them hear it from me firsthand and yeah obviously editing and all that sort of thing that dramatic thing that those those TV programs do um so they packaged it up so well that it I felt very comfortable and they were so um uh sort of allowed me to stop and pause that they opened to suggestions about how they wanted to to angle the story and um and how I wanted it to be perceived as well and told and they did it so well that I was very comfortable when I saw it before it got released I was like yeah this is this is exactly how what I had in mind so having that that being comfortable with the product that they produced and what I told and how my story was being told I was very content with it being out there and that was the beginning I think of of my ability to tell my story because um without that opportunity or without that um without that um healings through through telling my story um I I think that's part of the reason why I I've sort of fared quite well when it comes to Mental Health incredible and we then turned to your next chapter which was your Olympic Journey again obviously it did begin that day that you did mention that that's what you're going to do but were you ever really serious about it and when you started what happened um yeah so uh through like when I I think I'll just go back a little bit and it was a when I left Hospital that's one of the hardest parts of a person who's just acquired their disability um for me I had been in hospital I had nurses to care for me I had you know my three meals a day I had my room was decked out and all my physio equipment um I was very cared for and people could come to me now when I left hospital I didn't have that anymore yeah I had lots of people loving and caring me but there was no like I couldn't just push a buzzer and then someone comes to my beckoning Aid it was it was a big change and and that's one of the most difficult parts of the healing process especially mentally because you feel like you are worthless in that that moment but at the same time you know I needed I needed a system and I needed people to want me to do things and the military Rehabilitation Center was was very keen on me coming in and doing my rehab um and initially I was put into the rehabilitation center in the hospital on the military base at Gallipoli barracks in Brisbane and that's where most like knee reconstructions and Ankle you know broken ankles they all do their physio there so they're getting ready to go back to their units to you know to serve there was another organization on googly Barracks called the soldier Recovery Center and that was more centered around um mentally um wounded people with post-traumatic stress and there was a few you know um combination of um physically and mental uh injured people and I got ex I got told are you going to get sent down to this this Center and I said uh can I go and check it out first and then I'll make a decision whether that's the best situation or place for me to recover they're like yeah yeah that'd be good so I went down and I realized that there was so much mental health issues in that in that facility but I didn't want to expose myself to that because I felt like it would draw me in and make me start to be pessimistic and also I didn't want them to feel like they could they saw me because I was one of the most visually injured people on on the barracks at the time um walking around the Prosthetics and things like that and using a wheelchair of now and then and having this collaborate sort of this realization that I needed to be around people that wanted to get back to full health was very important to me and I I sort of avoided the whole combat injuries environment up until I got the opportunity to go to the Marine programs over in San Diego which is like a wounded soldier sporting event it wasn't until I got there that I actually saw another person like me with double amputees running on blades they saw people missing arms shooting bows and arrows using their mouth to pull the the string back swimming you know triple amputees pushing Wheelchairs and shooting hoops and things like that I was like man like I thought I was pretty injured and these guys like are more injured than me and they're doing a lot more than I can this is only six months after I got injured so having this exposure to these people that had been through it had come out the other side and found sport was super empowering to me and also I felt like I'd found something that was familiar for me and a goal and a purpose and a process in which I could jump into and Lead forward towards a healthy happy Curtis McGrath and that was like man like sport I've always loved it I've always done it why wouldn't I do more so I went over there and experienced it was amazing come back and then realized that you know maybe I was a bit selfish in my time in my rehab but in that situation I felt like I had to be and you know part and past what might be the reason why again that I was coming out of the other side mentally strong but also it highlighted to me the importance of support and being active and healthy um and you know we all know that the psychological benefits the endorphins that Sport and being outside and having physical activity give us gives us so the more I could do the more I would feel good not in the sense of doing so much that you become unhealthy um you know you get get rhabdomyelitis which is a kidney break or you break down in your kidney and all that sort of stuff like cross fillers get it well not a lot but some crossfits get it but anyway I don't and coming back I realized that oh you know sport was something that I could do and I was familiar with and I might as well see if I can go to the Paralympics and and see what what opportunities I had um so I dabbled on a few different sports in the high performance area so I you know did some swimming for my recovery I did some archery I did um Athletics and then I did kayaking and I grew up in Queenstown in New Zealand and I did a white water kayaking at high school and I loved that I was like maybe maybe I should do this and as I got into it I realized that I had a real passion for it but also some a little bit of talent and I needed a lot of training by the way I wasn't just picking up the paddle and off I went it was more like trying to stay outright and steer the boat and and once I realized that I had a little bit of talent and there was an amazing coach on the Gold Coast her name was Andrea wood what is Andrea what I should say um it it sort of laid out the sort of path for me to get to the Paralympics and or the the potential to get to the Paralympics and I think that was um really empowering to have someone believe in you as well and also someone to support you and in that in that environment so um and that's sort of the beginning of my journey uh towards that really amazing and it's but you've also got did you ever think that you know you'd walk away with gold and I mean yeah not not at all not at all you know I went into the sport thinking I'd love to give this a good crack and see how far I can go and just go in there and do my best and we always Australia's actually really bad at it they you know they love The Golden Child the golden the gold medals and everything and you know we sort of focus and um obsess over the win and I think the win for an athlete is getting out there and just doing their best knowing that they're left nothing else on the table and laying it all out there and giving your best shot and I think for me I was equipped with a performance that was worthy of a win but I executed my a performance um that was good for myself rather than you know we'll want to win but at the same time doing our best is all we can do and if that's good enough on the day given you know situation the climate the competitors the environment your equipment all that sort of stuff it just slowly sort of develops to to something that you can be proud of and you know I was incredibly proud of of what happened in Rio in the kayaking it's a 200 meter straight line events all over in like 40 41 seconds or something and um it's you know it was an amazing experience because I had my friends and family there you know some guys that I served with in the Army some school friends and my family being there and that was you know really special to for them to come along that Journey with me as well and it's like me being a little naive not understanding how it works but because you don't have the ability to use you know your legacy is it multiple and is there other body parts yeah um maybe not dominant it's just you can't um you compensate um and so a lot of people think oh yeah you just kayaking is such a good sport for someone with no legs because you just put the pedal on a pull it it's actually a combination of full body movement and much the same as someone on a rowing Ergo because I'm sure everyone's seen that it's probably a little bit more accessible than a kayak Ergo um and that's just the wrong machine you you sort of use your legs to drive movement and if you put the paddle in the water and pull it you're actually not moving the paddle you're moving the boat so if you're able to drive your legs at the same time you pull on the paddle you're pushing the boat through with all your body movement and the rotation of your your trunk and your back as well so a lot of people think oh yeah you got big arms and all that sort of stuff to be strong to pull it you actually want a really big strong back because that that connection to your body uh your legs and your arms is obviously through the Torso and that that having that strong and that connected means you go faster so the analogy that people use is putting putting the pedal in the concrete and pushing like like you're on a skateboard you'd be pulling past the the stick or the paddle that's on the wall on the ground so and that's sort of how it how it happens but you know because I don't have my legs that reduces my ability to make the boat go as fast as what I could uh with legs we're also slightly restricted in the Paralympics over the Olympics that our boats are slightly wider and that just gives us a little bit more balance which is something that I think they maybe need to take away because it's a high performance sport let's not make us slower because of you think that we can't balance the boat or they think we can't balance the boat let's make us the fastest we we can be without any restrictions and I think you know there's still a lot of work to do in the paralympic area for that but at the same time you know these bikes are incredibly typically you know one wrong stroke and you're you're out underwater so far so that's what makes it exciting and difficult and and more of that high performance side of things so I don't wear my legs in my kayak I've got this sort of contraption that sort of holds me into the boat so I am connected to the boat um but I'm not I don't drive no legs like like an Olympian does you talk about the 41 seconds I mean that's such a short period of time but such an intense period as well what is racing through your head is there something that you keep you know pumping through your head to keep you set in the zone or what do you think about in that time um so for me um I'm I don't get too nervous I I I think nerves are a result of maybe not just for me from my experience I'm sure everyone's different nerves for me is a realization that I haven't prepared well enough that I that I could have so if I am you know for example in 2019 I got married and went on honeymoon and drank too much and ate too much and felt you know felt great about myself and had an amazing time but I realized six weeks later lining up on the start line at World Championships qualifying for Tokyo Paralympics that I didn't prepare as best I could for that activity and then I was incredibly nervous I was yeah I was you know butterflies I could feel it tight chest um my hands went tingly and all sorts of different responses but having that realization that I didn't quite prepare well enough is for me is why I get my nerves um other people might just feel feel the pressure of the moment um so I don't really feel that so I knew that I had a lot of opportunity to prepare especially for for the Tokyo games and in Rio as well I was very focused on the price so I get a little bit of tunnel vision on it so I very focused on listening to the starter um and very focused on what I can do to execute my my race because I'm not you know I'm not going to go out and there and t-boat anyone in my boat I don't tackle anyone I don't stop the ball from being passed to into inside the D in it or whatever it's it's all about what I can do rather than what my competitor is because it's all in my control um that part you know there's always a saying in sport you know controlled controllables and in my sport it's all about me and my lane and having that focused on what I'm doing is it sort of it probably it makes you focus on on what you're trying to achieve and you know I have the the coaches words in a long and strong long and strong so a big long stroke for me um being as tall as I am allows me to to have that Rhythm have that smoothness and also focus on what I'm trying to do but I have a little like the race plan goes through my head so you know really hard at the start for the first sort of 30 40 meters then as you go through the 50 meter Mark sort of drop at just ever so slightly and then threatening at the last sort of 50 meters 80 50 meters you up it hop it to use all your stamina that you've got whatever you've got left in the lactate tank and and make it make it hopefully work and that's generally how I operate um and if I have that in my mind I'm not worried about anything else you know the weather could be average it was raining in Tokyo even though we've been trained for 45 degree heat so it was you know what it is yeah it's such specific training it sounds like as well because you need to get that result to get the best performance that you want but how does that compare to military training um I think with sport we're training for something that you know is going to happen and something that you can repeat do over and over and over and over again to try and find that that perfect Perfection and I I think athletes especially in the Olympic sports that are sort of individual or not not a not a contact sport um we're looking for Perfection and that's actually like it's impossible to be perfect and everyone's different and we've got different degrees of what our Perfection is but if in the pursuit of that we can get somewhere what we think is our best result um or our best race or our best start we can be we can be content with that um so within the military we're trying to be very broad but very um capable and here in any scenario um whether it be a first aid situation or a gun battle or a bridge construction or um loading or unloading something all of these situations are so Dynamic and so diverse it's very very difficult to be to be perfect and that that respect so in ways they are similar because of the routine because of the the focus on the tasks to get it done as best we can um but the military you know it's more about a collective collaborative approach to the mission or the task in order to achieve it or achieve the mission so whereas sports are very specific type of activity or movement or um or result so yeah I hope that answers the question okay um and even looking at your entire story and your journey so far seems like there's almost a pattern where you're very proud of your country and you're very proud of representing your country why do you think that is why do you think you always want to whether it's fighting for Australia or it's competing for the country why do you continue to want to stand up um I think it's uh privilege and a great opportunity too and in both regards I think um to to be a representative of a Nation or an organization I think is you have to take some pride in in that because you're not just representing yourself you're representing your teammates your representing especially at the the power of an Olympic level your country you're representing your sport you're representing especially in the Paralympics people with disability and um and in the military you're representing a nation and its values so if we can understand those values and those organizations and those people and those the the country where we should be more honored to have that privilege and I think that that's why I feel quite proud of of what I've achieved but also part of my opportunity uh to to do what I get to do available and looking at the space now where you are going and sharing your story and speaking in front of heaps of people about your message as well what do you think you want people to take away when making your story um I think I've said it a few times thinking about what you can do rather than what you can't and I think if we review within and within for enough time to process and comprehend what happened whatever that might be or whatever that feeling may be or that situation that's caused that feeling and then look for what you can do what you can do next not what what you can't and looking forward is really important because that gives us a purpose for each day and whether that is waking up and making your bed or you know cleaning your room or going to work and and handing in a presentation and and doing it really well you're then having some purpose and having some motivation to get that done whether that is an average task or something you don't want to do or a task that you really love when you have that opportunity to to go forward you're obviously improving in some way and and whether that is a really average task as I said it might be something you don't want to do is if you can get that out of the way you can then get onto the things you can enjoy and I think we get we get comfortable being comfortable and doing things that are easy and we need to be challenged in a way that makes us feel uncomfortable if and because when we're in those moments we then grow and we become more comfortable with being in environments and in situations that are hard and are difficult and require more thinking more energy more resources more support um we can we can then be more resilient as we deal with challenges around us and I completely agree I feel that the world we're living in today there is a lot of people that may not have had something happen to them or may not have a story to share but it's almost like this loss of motivation and people that I can't be bothered mindset which is really hard to overcome in the day-to-day when people just continue to wake up go to work do whatever come home sleep repeat and do it all again and it's hard to get rid of that mindset yeah I think um there needs people not everyone's ambitious but you need a little bit of ambition in order to and whether that you know is finishing your book or all those little tasks I just said before it just this that little bit of ambition to to achieve something will help you move forward and whether that like I said like whether those tasks you like or not once you you are moving towards the the completion of that you're able to then move to something else and and building a bridge of of improvement whatever that may be I think it's really important as you suggested earlier is that those support networks I think they are really critical and in a world where we're very disconnected and it's so much easier just to jump on the phone or text a friend or call a friend that's about having those true core networks that you can not only rely upon but also just connect with whenever they like yeah and you know not everyone is I I understand I'm in a very fortunate position with a loving family and a wife and you know some amazing friends and family around me and not everyone has that and you know that's that's the difficult part is is trying to find support networks around us and for me in my opinion I think Sport's a great connector of people at Bridges gaps it doesn't matter your background it doesn't matter you know where you're from or how much money your parents have what school you went to it's about coming together with this with a group of people to achieve the task or the the beat the other team or win or or connect with people that are trying to do the same thing and when we connect in in a way that is goal orientated we feel a much more sense of purpose much more sense of value and much more motivation and that can flow on to other parts of our life as well um and then lastly where are we going moving forward is there any upcoming uh preparation for new Olympic goals or anything person will happen yeah um you know I would love to be able to compete in the Paris Paralympics in two years time and next year is our qualifying year so it's a very very busy year for our sport it's the most amount of international and domestic competitions that we have so that's exciting um given that I've had a year off I've got quite a lot of work to do to get back into shape and to get back ready and and back to my fighting best but at the same time um just chipping away a few different things um I've got some job opportunities with the Brisbane 2032 games um coming in 10 years so obviously that's a long Runway but I think making the most of the runway we've been given to to make sure we execute an amazing games not just for that year and that those the four weeks or six weeks including the Paralympics in 2032 but the Legacy beyond that and around it for you know people with disability and power of export in sport in general I think there's so many people can benefit from getting outside or even you know getting into a swimming pool and getting those endorphins flowing and and trying to live a healthy and active lifestyle so um we'll just have to see if um I won't be competing by actually that in 2032 um that's it's not something I'm I'm aiming for but uh you know there's there's a lot of opportunity around around the games for other opportunities for other employment or other activities which I'm excited about awesome I don't think they'd be a better person for the job to really be in that environment so congratulations on all of that and thank you so much for joining us today and sharing a bit of your story and your message and spreading that that hope and that support and honestly congratulations on she's so proud of how far you've come and to see where you are now to even have a smile on your face and to be able to go on and enjoy the next part of your journey is phenomenal so congratulations once again and thank you thank you very much for having me thank you kind words cheers no worries and thank you so much to everyone else at all very soon