Trump lying about migrants eating pets was 'truly an idiotic moment': Former Rep. Jolly

STRONGEST DIPS COMING FROM INDEPENDENTS AND REPUBLICANS." I WANT TO BRING IN NBC'S VAUGHN HILLYARD, LIVE IN TUCSON. DAVID JOLLY IS A FORMER REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN FROM FLORIDA. ASHLEY PARKER IS "WASHINGTON POST" SENIOR NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT. BOTH DAVID AND ASHLEY ARE MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYSTS. WELCOME TO ALL OF YOU. SO, CONGRESSMAN, "THE NEW YORK TIMES" SAYS THAT TRUMP'S PARTICULAR POLITICAL GOALS IN THIS CASE APPEAR TO BE THE SAME AS THEY'VE ALWAYS BEEN. YOU STOKE ANGER, GIVE SOMEONE PEOPLE TO BLAME FOR THEIR MISFORTUNES. DID HE OVERSTEP THIS TIME, THOUGH? >> HE DID. THIS WAS AN IDIOTIC MOMENT BY DONALD TRUMP, TRULY AN IDIOTIC MOMENT, AND AS THE FOCUS GROUPS SHOW, DEMOCRATS, INDEPENDENTS, REPUBLICANS ALL ARE SCRATCHING THEIR HEADS, SAYING, WHY IS DONALD TRUMP DOING THIS? I THINK PART OF WHAT IS SO UNSETTLING IS WE ALSO SEE A FORMER PRESIDENT TRYING TO REGAIN THE WHITE HOUSE BY PAYING ATTENTION TO INTERNET CONSPIRACIES AND SOCIAL MEDIA CONSPIRACIES AND BY BEING -- THE LIKES OF LAURA LOOMER AND OTHERS GOING INTO THIS DEBATE, SO WE SEE SOMEONE LACKING THE CAPACITY TO RETURN TO THE WHITE HOUSE IF HE DIDN'T HAVE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. I DO THINK, THOUGH, IT REFLECTS, AS YOU SAID, IN THE OPENER, CHRIS, THAT THE REAL GOAL HERE FOR REPUBLICANS -- BECAUSE THEY REALLY HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER SUBSTANTIVELY ON BEHALF OF A PLAN. DONALD TRUMP IS NOT A POLICY WONK. IT WILL BE ULTIMATELY TO TIE IMMIGRATION TO CRIME, TO CONFLATE THE TWO, EVEN THOUGH STATISTICALLY, THOSE NUMBERS ARE UPSIDE DOWN, BUT TO RUN A WILLIE HORTON-TYPE CAMPAIGN DOWN THE STRETCH, TRY TO TIE VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS TO RAMPANT IMMIGRATION, CONFLATE IMMIGRATION WITH CRIME BY BROWN PEOPLE AND BLACK PEOPLE. WE SAW IT IN THE BEST EXAMPLE WAS KATIE BRIT'S RESPONSE TO THE STATE OF THE UNION, WHEN SHE BASICALLY SAID, YOU HAVE BROWN AND BLACK PEOPLE COMING INTO YOUR WHITE GENTRIFIED NEIGHBORHOODS, AND YOU SHOULD BE SCARED, I SUSPECT THAT IS WHAT DONALD TRUMP WILL HONE INTO ON THESE LAST 50 DAYS OR SO. >> VAUGHN, TELL US WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT WHAT WE MIGHT HEAR FROM THE FORMER PRESIDENT IN ARIZONA TODAY. AS WE'VE SAID, KEY BATTLEGROUND STATE AND ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT STATES WHEN HE TALKS ABOUT IMMIGRATION. >> Reporter: RIGHT, CHRIS. AT LEAST THE CAMPAIGN IS BILLING THESE EVENTS, THESE REMARKS THAT HE IS SET TO DELIVER HERE IN SOUTHERN ARIZONA, AS A FOCUS ON THE ECONOMY AND ON AMERICA'S HOUSING CRISIS. OF COURSE, USUALLY, WITH THE CAMPAIGN BILLS SOMETHING AS A CERTAIN THEME, WE SEE DONALD TRUMP SPEND A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF THE TIME TALKING ABOUT OTHER ISSUES HERE, BUT THE IDEA OF THE ECONOMY AND THE HOUSING CRISIS, YOU KNOW, I WAS JUST TALKING TO A COUPLE OF TRUMP'S LOYAL SUPPORTERS WHO SAID THEY WATCHED THE DEBATE, AND ONE WOMAN, SHE TOLD ME THAT ONE OF HER FRUSTRATIONS WITH TRUMP OR CONCERNS OUT OF THAT DEBATE WAS HIS FOCUS ON REPEATEDLY COMING BACK TO IMMIGRATION AS THE CAUSE OR ALSO THE SOLUTION IN STEMMING IMMIGRATION FLOW FOR EVERY ISSUE THAT HE BROUGHT UP, SAYING THAT SHE WAS EAGER AND WAS HOPING TO HEAR SOMETHING ELSE BESIDES HIM CONTINUALLY COMING BACK TO IMMIGRATION. WELL, SHE SAID THAT SHE KNOWS AND UNDERSTANDS AS SOMEBODY WHO LIVES IN SOUTHERN ARIZONA, THE IMPORTANCE OF IT. I WAS TALKING WITH ANOTHER VOTER HERE, WHO TOLD ME THAT SHE WAS -- HER HEAD TURNED WHEN THE EATING PET COMMENT WAS MADE BY DONALD TRUMP ON THE DEBATE STAGE. SHE HADN'T HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT THIS THEORY OR THIS NARRATIVE, AND THEN SHE WENT ON THE INTERNET AND COULDN'T FIND ANY FACTS TO BACK IT UP THERE. SHE SAID SHE IS STILL VOTING FOR DONALD TRUMP, AND SHE WISHES THAT HE WOULD HAVE GREATER FOCUS ON ISSUES LIKE THE ECONOMY AND HOUSING CRISIS HERE, BUT AS WE HAVE SEEN FROM DONALD TRUMP, TIME AND AGAIN, HE OFTEN WEAVES BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, SOME POLICY TANGENTIAL DISCUSSION AND OTHER CONSPIRACY THEORIES LIKE EATING PETS THAT, FRANKLY, A LOT OF ALLIES THAT HE LISTENS TO AND RIGHT-WING MEDIA OR SOMETIMES EVEN SURROUNDS HIMSELF BY, LIKE LAURA LOOMER, ARE THOSE -- THOSE ARE THE ISSUES THEY SO OFTEN BRING UP DIRECTLY TO HIM, AND WE SEE THAT PLAY OUT ON DEBATE STAGES AND IN PLACES LIKE HERE ON CAMPAIGN RALLY STAGES, CHRIS. >> THE THING, ASHLEY, IS THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO WIN, IN FACT, THE PEOPLE WHO SAID TO ME, AND I'M SURE SAID TO YOU, REPUBLICANS, AFTER JOE BIDEN STEPPED DOWN, WAS, HE CAN STILL WIN THIS. HE NEEDS TO STICK TO THE ISSUES WHERE HE'S STRONGEST, THE ECONOMY AND IMMIGRATION. OBVIOUSLY, HE'S GONE OFF ON A TANGENT ON IMMIGRATION. HAVE YOU HEARD ANYTHING THAT HE IS WILLING OR ABLE TO RECALIBRATE HIS MESSAGE TO GET BACK TO WHERE IT'S EFFECTIVE FOR THE VOTERS HE NEEDS TO WIN? >> WELL, AGAIN, I THINK IF YOU JUST LOOK AT THE DEBATE, OUR REPORTING IS THAT HIS TEAM HAD WORKED TO PREP HIM TO STAY ON MESSAGE. THEY HAD PREPARED HIM THAT VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS WOULD LEVY PERSONAL ATTACKS AGAINST HIM FOR HIS CRIMINAL INDICTMENTS OVER HIS RALLY CROWD SIZES, ALL OF THE SORTS OF THINGS THAT SHE DID, AND IN THAT MOMENT, FOR THOSE 90 MINUTES, AS WE AND MUCH OF THE NATION SAW, HE WAS EITHER UNWILLING OR UNABLE OR SOME COMBINATION OF BOTH TO MAINTAIN THE SELF-DISCIPLINE THAT HIS ADVISORS AND AIDES HOPED HE WOULD HAVE TO GET THROUGH THAT DEBATE. NOW, HAVING COVERED HIM FROM 2015, IS HE CAPABLE OF RECALIBRATING? LOOK, THERE'S MOMENTS WHERE HE IS CAPABLE OF CHANGING HIS BEHAVIOR FOR A STRETCH OF SEVERAL DAYS OR EVEN A WEEK AT A TIME. HE CAN SOMETIMES STAND UP AND READ FROM A TELEPROMPTER, SO THERE'S A WORLD TONIGHT THAT VAUGHN'S OUT THERE IN ARIZONA, AND DONALD TRUMP COULD READ A MESSAGE THAT IS PREPARED BY HIS AIDES AND ADVISORS ON A TELEPROMPTER ABOUT THE HOUSING CRISIS AND THE ECONOMY. WILL HE BE ABLE TO DO THAT BETWEEN NOW AND ELECTION DAY WITHOUT INTERRUPTION? HISTORICALLY, HE HAS NEVER ONCE DONE THAT BEFORE. SO, I'M SKEPTICAL HE WILL SUDDENLY BECOME AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT HUMAN NOW. >> SO, LET'S TAKE THE FIRST PART OF ASHLEY'S THEORY, THEN, CONGRESSMAN, THAT HE MIGHT BE UNWILLING. DO YOU THINK TRUMP AND SOME OF HIS SUPPORTERS BELIEVE THAT THE KEY TO VICTORY ACTUALLY IS, I DON'T KNOW, PAINTING SUCH AN APOCALYPTIC VISION OF WHERE THE U.S. IS RIGHT NOW THAT HE BECOMES THE CHANGE CANDIDATE, HE BECOMES THE ONE WHO CAN MAKE IT ALL BETTER? >> YEAH, THE TEXTBOOK THEORY, DISPASSIONATELY, IS CALLED NEGATIVE PARTISANSHIP. HE WOULD RUN A CAMPAIGN SAYING, VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS IS WORSE THAN I AM. YOU SHOULD BE SCARED OF HER LEADERSHIP. BUT TRUMP TURNS THAT INTO SOME RACIST, XENOPHOBIC NARRATIVES THAT REACH FOR SOME OF THE DARKER ELEMENTS IN AMERICAN CULTURE, AND THEN HE ALSO DOES THE CHICKEN LITTLE THEORY OF, AMERICAN CARNAGE. CHICKEN LITTLE WORKED IN 2016, BUT CHICKEN LITTLE, BY DONALD TRUMP'S, NOT WORKING RIGHT NOW. AND I WOULD LOVE TO SEE MORE OF A DEBATE OVER THE ECONOMY. WE DIDN'T SEE A LOT OF DEBATE ON THE ECONOMY BECAUSE I THINK VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS AND THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAVE SUCH A STRONG RESPONSE TO THAT. DONALD TRUMP WANTS TO PLAY ON INFLATION. THE ENTIRE WORLD SUFFERED FROM HISTORIC INFLATION COMING OUT OF THE PANDEMIC, AND U.S. POLICYMAKING AROUND IT. BUT THE U.S. IS THE ENVY OF THE WORLD IN ITS RECOVERY. MORE PEOPLE WENT TO WORK THIS WEEK THAN EVER BEFORE. HOME OWNERSHIP REMAINS AT HISTORIC HIGHS. THE STOCK MARKET IS BREAKING RECORDS. INFLATION'S COMING DOWN AND REAL WAGES ARE GOING UP. ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE AND EDUCATION HAS HIT HISTORIC HIGHS AND INVESTMENTS IN INFRASTRUCTURE ARE UNLIKE ANYTHING DURING THE TRUMP YEARS SO IF DONALD TRUMP WANTS TO HAVE A POLICY DEBATE ON THE ECONOMY, I THINK VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS SHOULD WELCOME THAT, AND I WOULD ALSO SUGGEST THERE'S A LOT MORE ROOM FOR VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS TO RUN ON THAT. WE DIDN'T SEE THAT ON THE DEBATE STAGE WHEN SHE TOOK THE QUESTION, ARE YOU BETTER OFF TODAY THAN YOU WERE FOUR YEARS AGO? YES, WE ARE, FOR REASONS OF THE