Michel Barnier | Cambridge Union

foreign [Music] [Applause] good afternoon everyone thank you all for coming and it is great to see so many of you here today and it's a pleasant surprise to see that despite brexit European Affairs still generates so much interest in the UK it's a pleasure to have you at the Cambridge Union for the first time France is improving you know and I heard that you've spent the last day in Oxford so we'll make sure that your time in our other place is worth it and the way this is going to work this afternoon is so we'll start with some questions about the brexit negotiations the future of the EU the influence of the EU in the world in the world and then we'll open the floor for questions and given that Mr Bunny is on a tight schedule to catch his zero star we'll try to accommodate as many questions from the audience as possible during this one hour interview so Michelle Barney is a French politician who has served in many notable French cabinet positions notably for foreign affairs and for the environments more recently he served as Chief negotiator under article 50 from 2016 to 2019 and then as the European commission's head of task force for international relations within the United Kingdom from 2019 to 2021. he remains a permanent figure in European politics and this will allow a fascinating and fascinating insights into the world of brexit negotiations he just published my secrets brexit diary which is available online for instance on Amazon from the outsets of the British the brexit negotiations the two sides of the channel so UK and EU were very confrontational with some European countries wanting to make the UK pay for its decision while the brexit hardliners were numerous in UK so my first question is why did you accept this Mission Impossible and what do you think your own personal contributions to the negotiations were so first of all the good good afternoon to all of you and thank you very much for your time and your your attention thank you for all for your invitation thank you James for reputation and I'm very honored and privileged to spend one hour with you after spending one hour and one hour enough yesterday really in another place uh yeah you forget about just one point which is important in my biography and my long personal political history that I I used to be the president of the region of France Savoy in the arms and 10 years 81-92 to organize the Winter Olympics 10 years for 16 days it was a good training for the brexit so in fact a few days after the brexit referendum June 16 the the president of the commission Jean-Claude juncker I was at the time of part-time one day the week is special advisor for defense very first time the president commission was involved in defense matters ask me in vasso I remember it was a meeting between NATO the President of the U.S Obama was there and we had a meeting with him pirate meeting and and the EU the Republic asked me if I could agree to be the chief negotiator of the commission obviously it was a totally extraordinary task but it was clearly extraordinary and historical and unique negotiation that you can't say no what could be well could have been my added value at that time I was close from juncker and to be clear the expertise for the negotiation towards and is clearly the commission commission is kind of executive body of the the EU and all the policies or the policy of the EU we remember stages of parliament are managing the education expertise is there in particularly when it's about brexit that means unraveling or 45 years of of cooperation between the state so I before this request I I spent 10 years in the commission as a commissioner of the French commissioner and European Union from France two times the first time as the commissioner for regional policy the structural funds the main budget in EU and the second time as a commissioner for the single market and financial services just in the middle of the financial crisis so I I know I knew quite well the commission I've been a member of the European Council as a French Minister for foreign affairs and also a member of the parliament so I knew the three institutions it was cleared up to succeed to succeed you you decide this negotiation it was absolutely necessary to to put the switch together and to to build the unity of the 27th so I think and and the the literal translation of the French title of your latest book about brexit um is um the great illusion or the grace the great misconception what misconceptions do you think the British had about brexit and what do you think our misconceptions as Europeans were about brexits and maybe about British in fact I choose this title the great illusion for two or three reasons the main one is that I think leaving the EU leaving the single Market leaving the customer Union with the choice of the UK to live everything but we what they call the art brexit for a little obligation let me record that too it was perfectly possible to leave the EU and remaining is your Market one of you is Norwegian so no way is is not in the EU and Norway the battles in your market with the right and obligations but it would perfectly possible even to stay which could have been in live view the minimum for National incoming interest of the UK to remain in the customer in the custom Union but they decided to leave everything so it was not a big issue so in your book my secrets brexit diary to complete my I I just the title means that for me living everything to to be alone is the case with UK today in the global world thinking that you can be stronger being alone is an illusion when you are the size of France Germany UK Italy I don't don't speak about the others but even for the the biggest one the Germany it it is the force it just strength to be together and for Michael tree obviously so I think it's an illusion to to think that you can defend your interest promote your ideas your ideas your values more efficiently alone than together vis-a-vis China Russia or or the states also the first thing the second illusion is on our side so that the brexit will not happen and the the brexit the dissentment was unprobable even for the brexiters even for those who run this campaign Johnson a few days before they were not sure to succeed to to and eat other so the second illusion is from an old side to be careful because something unprobable could happen in France only in other countries so yeah the first chapter of my book here which is a very good book the English and Spanish in Romania in Greece in French the the first chapter is called a warning a warning because I try to understand why 52 percent of the British people vote against Brazil against you evolves to for the country to be alone and we don't we we have to be careful about not doing a mixtake yeah obviously there is the populism obviously there is a lies or purposes there is nationalism the support of the people of the city but the the real reason the brexit is the the social anger in many regions of the UK where there is no future no more no longer industry or no more agriculture policies so we need to to be careful and to to understand this social anger to listen to it and to and to answer which is why the first chapter is called a warning too late for the UK not too late for us and talking about your book you mentioned the fact that um some UK officials during the negotiations try to circumvent you to directly talk to national leaders within Europe and so can you tell us a bit more about the Dynamics of these negotiations yes every day they try to divide us every day that didn't try to buy spider Vice bus to to go directly to present the commission to try to divide us going each in every country and to but I I I got very early interest of the 30 the 27 leaders of the EU the head of states and the Prime Minister I can explain why and how I got a threat to the parliament always had a very huge trust and confidence in the commission that they lose their time their time for for one reason at the end of this long long negotiation in any case we needed to be unanimous to agree in such a treaty or Trade Agreement or brexit it was an obligation for the 27 member states to be unanimous that means that each and every National concern about the brexit but I've become the concerned of 26 answers I can take some example Island which is a more sensitive question please establish an island the the busy line the stability of Ireland became very soon thanks to the t-shock in either prime minister Ryan but also my work became very soon the concern of the 2600 and they were sorry there Fisheries eight member states are concerned by The Fishery in the British water all the other support these eight member states Spain with Gibraltar Cyprus Cyprus you have in Cyprus 2 military Sovereign bases in the UK in the middle of Cyprus it was a very specific concern and this concern became the concern of 26 hours or so that means that the obligation to be the obligation immunity became a tool for Unity but the real reason of the unity of 27 is is another reason it's the fact that I asked to the president of the commission at the very beginning of the negotiation in 2016 and 2017 to use a very unusual method in Brussels which is transparency transparency not too sure I tell you that means that we decided we see photos of producer to say everything to get everything and as every issue the negotiation every day to everybody at the same time so we put in place a group of 27 brexit delegates for interesting job and my Deputy or myself the same in the parliament went to meet this brexit delegates of Department every week at least two times per week saying everything that means that each and every prime minister or president in each country receive every day of the acquisition so it is it was the the main tool for the trust they trust me because I I executive made what I I said to say everything to everybody the second point is that I'm the president of juncker and the president of the European Council Mr task was polish ask me which were totally unusual to take part to the European Council when the point of breaks important and the agenda so I I was seated with the members of the president and prime minister of the EU for each meeting where this break or about brexit during four years and this creates a real personal link of trust between them and me and finally I decided to go every week once per week in one member states meeting the prime minister in his office the key Minister of Finance Foreign Affairs Department the national Department following public hearing the press the trade unions and the business Community one one Capital per week during four years and all this work explain why from the day one to the last day to 27 mother States and Department was United I opened it was clear for him not given by chance that's perfect and the last last point that I had the privilege to share incredible team of 70 people 70 people 18 nationalities uh very young half men and women it was incredibly on our side great um moving I don't want to commend the bridges it was a weakness for the Britain to change The Negotiator every year I have in face of me four negotiator in four years one per year it's enormous and and you run for the the French Republican party primaries during the last presidential campaign yes moving on to the other topic and it seemed that many candidates and not just from the rights and not just in France and have strengthened their views and have become more more radical do you think that a moderate candidacy is still possible to be elected in the current state of European politics what's what what means moderate encourage you to be to to have moderate opinions you have to be proud and strong in your on your opinion and always try to be so since my very first involvement in politics but I was 15 or 16 in my list in Subway so so but I think yes that it's possible to have strong and and proud opinions and every subjects and in the same time to express discipline with respect for the others it was not a failure for me if I may go to Mandela I didn't I didn't lose I need a twin because I I get a lesson absolutely do you think Hungary should be allowed to take presidency of the Council of the EU despite its rather flexible interpretation of the rule of law there is debate for the current days in Brazil and but this seems difficult to block the angry to chair the council but actually this debate is useful to to show to Victor Robin I know quite well with Mr Victorian government that they have to be careful the process of the EU has always been a process of inclusivity and so so I think we have to to continue this process and to try to convince some of them who are just on the borderline to be careful moving on to the last topic of our discussion before opening the first questions and there have been many criticisms following the the failed French submarine deal and the ocus alliance French word um president macron has recently warned that Europe should not be a follower of the us and that it must build its own strategic autonomy do you think there is room for such autonomy at a time where Europe is divided and where it Aggregates defense budget hardly Rivals those of China and U.S give my opinion but number one on the office crisis I think that what the U.S and the UK did against France was not something to do between allies it was not correct and to be clear this kind of attitude could have a Could Have and Have consequences because we have some difficulties to forget the fact that our allies you can and do yes well of course you see what happens number two what the president of France said is correct we are without any kind of ambiguity the irons with the users but an allies doesn't get a ridges and I'm supposed to treat marriages so we need to keep our own capacity to decide for our own interests and it was useful to have this kind of autonomy looking at what our our interests you you members in particular in the in the Pacific yes I think that we have to draw the lessons of the operation crises we face not only the war in Ukraine but also the covet crisis but also the brexit but also the migration Crossing but also the financial crisis 50 years ago and what I what I observed from each of the crisis of the EU fully speaking as a good answer show the real resilience and draw the right places and all these lessons are going the same direction we need to build again our autonomy not contrary with Alliance solidarity but we need to to defend our world autonomy and our own capacity and for instance for speaking about the the war in Ukraine in three points autonomy and solidarity about defense autonomy for food security autonomy for energy so it is this this are the lessons we have to draw the reason why we need if I can express a political opinion which is a very strong for me we need in each of our country and many of you are coming from actually European countries we need to be Patriot and Europe at the same time in a global world where we are in the global war where we went where we are going for to we need to be a European in addition to be Patriot specific in addition not in the place of and from an economic and Innovation perspective Europe still lags behind and lags behind China and the US on the world stage do you think that the EU chip acts stimulus is the right way to correct this or do you think that the stimulus will come from the European industry and the startup ecosystem so in other words should the EU produce more and more legislative acts to attempt to protect the European economy [Music] producing a legitative Act is not producing also the first priority is to produce and for EU to be a territory of production for for agriculture of our industry for genetic worries to to remain or to be again a territory of production and to be frank I I know at least two countries this one except perhaps in the new technology we spoke about with some of you about what happened in around London but Frankly Speaking from the last 30 years the UK has abandoned a part of its industry to the benefits of the services the same in France it is not the case in Germany it's not the case in Italy it's not the case in Sweden so we need each and every European countries and European as a war to remain or to become again a territory of production but the part of the answer to the question of autonomous and as far the regulation are concerned or the ACT this effect I think we have to be less naive the U.S are producing legislative act to protect and to even to go to the kind of protectionism to Define their industry and I think we need to not to be like and I think last 20 years the European Union has been had been too naive in the in his trade in its trade Evolution to the others for instance the key word for our relation needs to be reciprocity it's a real problem to accept to import goods for industry for good for for agriculture which do not respect the Norms that we impose ourselves to our own Farmers or our own industry we need reciprocity which each and every partner in the world to continue on this question um what position do you think you left sorry um what positions should the EU take in the writing conflict between China and the US and do you think a third way is possible yes I think so clearly as fast democracy and freedom is concerned are concerned we are in the same side with the USA not be gritty we are on eyes and and we we respect silence but we have our we have our own interests and we actually we need to keep it our autonomy for to defend our interest in this region of the world but we need to keep we need to keep a link a dialogue and iteration with China without asking the permission to do this if it is your question exactly and thank you very much we're not going to turn to audience questions um so please raise your hand please you've got a question I think this one just tell me who you are from where you are coming my name is David Grace I'm a child a young a young student I was a student a long time ago and I worked in Brussels also not for the European commission but logging in on behalf of other people um I'm sure you're aware at the moment um that most British politicians are unwilling to talk about developing relations from the European Union indeed some of them are scared to talk about it until we have a general election but after we have Direction sometime in a few years if we have a government that can see the sensible case for rejoining the single market and the Customs Union what were the reaction of the European Union be to that yes the door is open without any kind of ambiguity the door we haven't opened everybody knew child regretted have regretted the brexit but we have respected the vote of 12. 52 percent of the British citizens no question about that we have David brexit in a fair way I think I I've been always very respectful to what the brexit the brexiter the British government and my counterpart always because I have a great admiration for this country and we have delivered brexit which respecting the the interest of the EU and protecting every day every day the integrative single Market but everybody has workers did the brexit so the door is open Frankly Speaking for for any kind of maneuver as I said during all the negotiation to break the EQ was a lot of life to leave everything oh see if they want to come back to this custom Union which could be my view present express my pleasure view the minimum for the national British interest is open if they want to join to rejoin the single Market is that the okay joined in you in 73 I remember this time because I was 21 and I vote for the first time in my life to the referendum organized by the French president for the accusation of UK Ireland Norway and Denmark I will remember the goodies party but I campaigned for the yes the accession I never regret this vote because I think we are stronger together but so if they want to join to rejoin the supermarket okay yes we knew I don't know it could be probably in the next few few months or years but the door is open the only point I want to mention when you join rejoin we want to access to such an organization that the institution totally unique in the world you can find nowhere in the world and never in the past a totality of continent organizing himself as a community of Nations respecting each and every Nations the national identity of each other pulling the policy as we are building for 60 years in Europe there is rules there is Norms there is condition there are there are known they are conditioned there the UK knows quite well the conditions that means that joining or rejoining means respecting the the condition in France we say um so they will have in any case to respect that means that from now to this time I don't know when what happened as far as Divergence is concerned what would be the size of the Divergence for the social regulations environmental organizations fiscal regulations between EU and UK and this point is very important if the size is too too too strong and too too far to too long to it could be a problem for rejoining if if they take if they keep which would be clever [Music] the main part of the coming coming Corpus common copies we had together for the moment because they have the same Corpus of regulations if they keep the [Music] main part it could be easier you you see what I mean this was a here answer and raccoon yeah yes okay um I'm a research fellow in social psychology and to I was wondering from my analysis so um after yeah happened in the beginning it looked like people were looking at the soft brexit first and then over time it became more and more extreme on on the British side mainly but I wonder accumulated of course in the election of Boris Johnson with a heartbreak of agenda and so on I wonder if plants and maps go into the more extremes is also something in the tone of the EU negotiators with UK so I as a social psychologist I so I I analyzed a couple of documentaries Justice by myself on exit negotiators and so on for example I'm also a Belgian so I I really liked it when people start was Prime Minister of Belgium um but when I looked at documentaries where I was talking about brexit and so on I couldn't help noticing some tone of arrogance or lack of intellectual humility and I wonder if that kind of put fuel on the fire and it led to the sun British people and looking at you in a more negative way more arrogant bunch of people who think they're better um so that's not my personal opinion of course right so just wonder if you have any any thoughts on that yes it is also a good question I encourage you to read my Booker to to see the part of psychology which is important in negotiation and to be clear before the very beginning of negotiation I spent a lot of months to study clearly what where the technical negotiation everywhere in the world in particularly in the UK in the history of UK and so I spend a lot of time but my line was very clear from the very beginning of the negotiation in term attitude to be always calm it's not so difficult for me because I am a maintainer respectful to have no emotion no passion to respect everybody and to be never never nervous and never put an impressive kind of rhetoric and the Paradox of the surprise for me to be frank all along the negotiation and particularly the last year with John son and his ministers negotiator David Frost that it was clear that the rhetoric and the ideology wasn't the UK side and not on my side despite it in fact I am French I was I was less arrogant and less ideological that the other side now so surprisingly and it was clear it was important any other question yes [Music] University and we focus on artitude politics but I want to ask you about you brought up earlier this kind of Illusion of the like the British on both sides and you know the question of why did English and British think that they're about to enroll and that kind of brings me to a global breaking the policy framework that was published last year um that kind of stakeouts and uniform policy framework for the UK post-brexit and you can very clearly see that there's a lot of focus on the end of the surface and what on the indo-pacific and on the Commonwealth and this kind of which has a lot of imperialness undertones that we're being honest um and it's very much a focus on this and so I hope to hear your opinion on whether you think there's a viability to kind of the Commonwealth replacing other relations at uks has in terms of the EU or do you just think that this is another illusion oh I know this story and I respect this story UK which has been a very great country the world and Empire which is still a very timely diplomacy or defense but you can you can face the future with nostalgia a simple front or first sometimes we have so many people in France which which protects Nostalgia so if it's not a good good thing to do when you are in politics so to be frank but you see it's impossible India for instance which is a very very big country and a very large democracy but all the other members of the commonweals knows what is the reality and this morning I was a Bloomberg and I will ask but the visit of today in Washington and what could happen about the free trade agreement between us and UK and my answer was I wish the best in the UK but the U.S know the reality and what is the reality we are now two different markets UK and you there are different markets culturally and Norway and and you we are the same Market but that we we are two different markets and and it's green if you look at the size of the markets everybody knows the size 60 million consumers on one side 400 and and for 50 50 million consumers outside this is the release of the trade and for in the end for all the all the members of Australia New Zealand and the other member of the commonwealths also this is a relative please I'm sorry but I I will have to leave uncertain because I have to catch the next question yeah that's it my name is Toby Austin I'm a history undergraduate here my question is very simple it follows on somewhat in the first question let us imagine in 10 years the UK was trying to rejoin and negotiating aside from Britain wanted all of the carve outs all of the opt-outs all of the original negotiated exemptions from the treaties do you think European side would learn to welcome that particularly if it was the point of tension which might allow a British government to re-enter Europe as long as they hold those options back or is there just no chance no I I know the opt out I know the fact that the UK did not want to join in the second currency okay Schengen okay but as far the single Market which is the core the main asset of the EU is not yet our defense policy or foreign policy not yet the main answer to the EU is a single Market because serial Market is not simply a free trade zone General market is a totally a total ecosystem with some new norms and same standards for the consumer for the industry for agriculture the same regulation the same Superior Vision the same jurisdiction and I don't think there is so many there there where so many adults from the UK in the single Market no to be clear they will if there is a this this requester do we join there will be no no opt-out for the supermarketer thank you any other questions please please let me know so yes you are very patient I'm a first year history student from just up the road here in John's okay my question is um obviously we all watched as Theresa May struggled desperately to try and pass the original deal and the result of that failure was the rise of Boris Johnson the European Union in that time took a position that very little about what treating can be reopened but this was in effect the eu's final offer the position that seemed to change in October 2019. do you think the European Union could have been more flexible and extended and more open hand to Theresa May and do you think the failure to do that was at least in part responsible for the rise of Boris Johnson in the UK when you are in my position as a new negotiator you negotiate with the the government or the the UK yeah I didn't choose the government and during the first three years the government of the UK when the government terrorism which wasn't which is uh who is Wars and who is in my viewer courageous State women and we try to find a solution for the more sensitive issues which which wasn't which is still the Irish issue because in Ireland ladies and gentlemen is that the question of trade of goods or technical equation of peace it's a concern about people and the peace for the people so we try to find a solution to square the cycle in Ireland because what create problems in Ireland is nothing else that brexit nothing else the fact that the part of the island I'm the island believe you leave the same market and that the fact that the consequences in more than ease that we need control and checks a cow a cow who live in England by boat entering in Ireland Island in Belfast this cow if there is no border on the ground in the island this cow is entering Germany mechanically or in France the same day very fast so we need to control for safety and reason for the protect the consumers to protect the business to protect the budget of each of each country so we need checks and control I never spoke about the Border at the end after several proposals of my side and finally The Proposal agreed by terrorism Awards to include the totality of the the UK in our border custom Union it was the last solution of agreed by terrorism and finally she tried three times to get to agreement of the House of Commons and she failed because it was Johnson Johnson Drive and said I don't want this and I said to Johnson okay but we need to find a solution because we need control we we agreed to have no border and I'm okay it's a condition of peace but we need to have control and checks for what entering Goods vegetables animals entering in in Ocean Island and finally we we agree with Johnson at the end of 19 on this extraordinary option unique option to have the territory of Northern Ireland both in the single Market of the EU and the National Market of the UK which is what what that stick and I regret profoundly that a few weeks after Johnson decided to recognize what you have signed readers I think it's not fair he's not correct for prime minister of such a great country that UK not to recognize and to respect his own signature and finally we lost two years because of Johnson and finally rashes would not agree with us to a specific agreement against our agreement to implement the protocol and negotiate so this is this is a real story once again we can read my book highly recommend it yes [Music] but thankful for the support that the eu's and steadfast to show to our regular negotiations but I've also wanting to follow on to the last question after the beginning of the signs with all the protections that have had for the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland and between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom and when under the latter stage of the Johnson Ministry and during this process prime minister there was some concerted efforts and threats to overthrow that there was a question how far the EU will be willing to go in terms of disciplinary or mental disciplinary but you know legal proceedings against the UK through the European court of justice and other mechanisms to find address for those for those attempts to overturn the nature of the agreement as signed so I just support literally what your opinion was on how far the EU would have gone whether the support of the person who Ireland during the initial breaks of negotiations would have continued as surrounded as it had and where that might have ended up added up after the gates that producing that came in and the winter spring would have been agreed which diffused most of the tension around that particular yes a little fun to reopened all the books of history but the fact it finally we a regional agreement with Johnson I can tell you that he negotiate World by World Commandments sentence by sentence no surprise first and the team of UK which is which was a very professional team they negotiate every word of this protocol on island include included in the first brexit treaty about the divorce and the second treaty negotiate was about the future election the trade agreement in this First Agreement they negotiate every world of they know exactly what could happen the reason why I didn't accept at that time and do not understand today why and how the prime minister of UK can be able to say I don't want to recognize my own signature so this and this treaty was managed by the framework of the court of justice of here so when he decided not to you need a theory to say I don't want to put in place to implement what I signed uh we put in place the procedure in front of the court of justice the reason why we spend we lose two or three years until Mr snack arrived simakis Baroque than Mr Johnson and more sales and finally reversion agreement and I'm very happy that now I hope that the British government and the European side will implement linked to the Windsor agreement protocol night because once again in Arnold is a question of people and peace yes please structured or more centralized be careful not to use words which are not the same translation in the different countries we know what means Federation in your country but if you ask the French what means there is going to kill the contrary in new country in Germany means trust and confidence to the lender the regions in the global mind of the French people means centralization and the idea that everything could be decided in Russia is not a good idea so so we have to be careful now God I never never accept or I will always careful not to to it doesn't in the prison the European project in the world we are we are we are in a very unique and extraordinary unprecedented construction never in the past nowhere in the world yes such Constitution that the dimension of the continent of 27 number Nations putting their Destiny so we have to respect this complexity uh and to explain this complexity to the people which is a key point for the democracy and for the future election to explain why the the management of the new is complex because we try to pull 27 Nations respecting the national identity of each of each of them it cannot be simple if it is important it will be uniform you want to United you not to uniform Europe so my my old my dream is a respect industrial identity is that Europe will have the will the wish the courage to prediction leaders to to build the power to build the power but what means Global power economy currency defense proceed external praise we are not yet zero but we are on the bus in my view and when I look at the way we react to the different crises since 15 years financial crisis brexit migrations kovid Ukraine and the base of every single climate change I think we are in the past to draw the lessons and to miss to be stronger to become This Global power which is in the interest of each member states each managed in the global world do you have time for one more question depends 24 20 20 24. okay yeah I have to give at 30. great please [Music] student here um very abused a few countries and the countries were holding a different direction I'm wondering how you reviewed of the European Union and its services Trend and weaknesses as a unified power has changed sorry could you repeat your question because how your view of the European Union has changed through the negotiation two you can't judge you cannot judge or look at the EU earlier through the what happened for the brexiter because brexit is a negative negotiation is a divorce I I have no personal experience in divorce and many of our friends are added friends unfortunately and all my friends told me that the divorce is always painful and costly and that dedicated so we cannot look all what happened in you or what could happen in you in the future so under the brexit uh I'm a principal negotiation but the fact is that we have been reunited in this very very difficult task and issue once against disunity were not given by chance I work every day to the unity because it was key to succeed but I think that the more cleverly and more political issue that all the crisis we face once again we face this crisis in since 15 years with a huge degree of residence and I think the reaction to you as far as our autonomy is concerned for energy or for food to rebuild the industrial policy it will let me tell you that I was commissioner 10 years ago it was impossible in person to speak about it in the soil policy to to keep the borders it was impossible ten years ago to to speak about reciprocity in our Trade Agreement 10 years ago we were on the top of the incredible uh period of deregulation for financial services and the reason why when the crisis happened in 2008 we were nicked we were totally disarmed so so do we we either do the good reactions I'm not optimistic but I think we have the reason of trust and European product today right it's my food maybe one more question or should we call it today but my assistant told me that we have to leave because I my my train is in 20 minutes I was still there we need 10 minutes to go to the station so I'm very sorry but I uh in this place with the right place to to be I'm ready to come back okay thank you thank you very much foreign [Applause] [Music]