LOWRES: Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice is Surprisingly Good - Tim Burton is Back

this is movies a podcast about the act of Cinema and with me today he's not Hans but it is Jacob a Miller the cinematology monkey Jones has been raving about you it's good to be a praised Guy what's he what's he been saying again uh well I think it's more sympathy because he thinks that Kino Corner really impeded upon your time analyzing The Angry Video Game Nerd movie which is now coming coming into the conversation for potentially a revisit yeah Kino had a lot of uh ADT beverages that night I think yes he did he absolutely did if anybody wants to go back you know he's been talked about so much on this [ __ ] show and he hasn't appeared in maybe about a little over a year the last episode he he did show up for was a review of Betsy Brown's film actors which got released after being held up for a couple of years and then he disappeared after that and I've tried to DM him to get him back on the show that has gone completely ignored and then mkey went a little scorched Earth on the episode for spash the movie that we did and speaking very candidly about Kino's appearance with you on the Angry Video Game Nerd movie so I think we're going to have to remake that episode if there was one movie and one episode to remake James James Ralph's only movie he will ever make you know that movie has made me so apprehensive about putting a version of Mass state Lottery out that goes over 149 minutes and I've got a version of the film that's prepared right now that's literally an hour and 50 minutes I think maybe we could look this up I think the Angry Video Game their movie is about an hour and 52 or an hour and 5 it's literally right over the line and you feel it there's something far less Charming about a movie that's over an hour and 50 minutes compared to that 1 hour 40 minute Mark so that's been something that has left an imprint on me since we watched it for that show since we've got this whole conversation and the cards coming up with uh myself you and mkey I don't want to dive too much into it but one of the major things about the Angry Video Game Nerd movie that was a total uh wasted opportunity to me and this delve tailes into the movie we're actually going to talk about this evening is I felt that James Ralph with the character and with the world he built and I thought with the acument he had as a filmmaker he had a real possibility to make almost a modernday peewee's big adventure of the time that's what I think he was really done it for that maybe he had some of the pieces to do that but I don't think it was entirely there I think he ran out fast and that's why we got the movie we did we will talk about that at a later date okay what was the last time you watch the movie was it for the show oh boy man I I hadn't even watched it for that show I I remembered it uh in the in the years since I've watched bits of it but I actually haven't said sat down and watched it since I first saw it in Somerville Massachusetts when he was touring it because I wanted to support him and uh that that was the only time I saw it all the way through but I I it still indelibly etched in my brain for all that's insan reasons your one viewing of the movie was in a theater on a like a proper theater screen that's insane to me compared to myd I I have no doubt I mean James rol could still generate a pretty healthy crowd his YouTube channel obviously he's not at the level he was in 2010 which actually was probably less if we're being real because YouTube was still in its infancy but his his you know loyal fandom probably peaked around the time of that movie right but I have no doubt in my mind if he were to put out a second film it would probably fill a theater easy peasy the same way that that one did I would at the very least be curious to go watch it and I also did pay to go see Reagan in the theater so maybe that's not saying much but I've got an open mind here just like I had an open mind for Beetle Juice Beetle Juice which is following in the footsteps of a number of 25 15 30 40 50y year late sequels especially sequels to comedies that typically eat it that are horrible I'm thinking about Zoolander 2 which everyone forgets even happened or Anchor Man 2 which I think it still carried some generosity from critics and fans because it was it it got in on the ground floor of that genre of comedy film of the late sequel right that was maybe one of the first ones actually dumb and dumber two might have been the actual first one I think it was yeah uh and and that's one that is oh so conflicting to me because Dumb and Dumber is one of my favorite all-time movies and always has been and the D and dumber two is such a colossal disappointment for so many reasons I can't get into right now but the funny thing is I I recently went back and within the last few days I watched uh kind of a quick overview of the production and the behind the scenes and there there were like three maybe before times that the movie got an actual belly laugh out of me and I was like the fact that it even did that with how much of a total misfire it was was a miracle in itself maybe just because the talent of Carrie and Daniels but that oh man that maybe I'll have to maybe that's one we revisit after Beetle Juice Beetlejuice I don't know yeah this could be its own series that it evolves into I remember seeing that movie in the theater matter of fact and I had a it was kind of the same situation as this Beetlejuice sequel which is I grew up on it I grew up on Jim Carrey movies I grew up on dumb and dummer is one of my favorite movies as a kid and when they made the film which came out in what like 2013 or 2014 uh 14 same year as the AVGN movie wow what a year for comedy um it that so that was about what that that would have been 20 years since the original movie 1994 was a big year for Jim Carrey he had The Mask he had Dumb and Dumber and he had vur that's insane all number one hits yeah in nobody has ever done that before or since nobody's had three hit movie three hit comedies in the same year so it really defined his career and when they released the maybe you've seen it I'm sure you've seen it the DVD that is the director's cut the R-rated version of Dumb and Dumber that was my first time going back to it since I had had it on videotape and it was this situation where kind of similar to when John cric fi took renan Stimpy over to Spike TV the jokes were a little too sexual a little too dark they did get some joke some some laughter out of me I'll I'll fully admit that and even the I mean I think the theatrical cut of Dumb and Dumber is still very funny to this day as far as comedies go especially late 20th century comedies that is to yeah and with this I went to go see it in the theater and I remember leaving my my girlfriend who lived with me at the time behind because I was like she's not going to get it she's not going to understand the reverence for this movie or this Duo and the trailers maybe don't look terrific it looks like it could be corny I don't know and I wound up having a mostly good time with the movie there was definitely a heavy amount of corniness to it that I did not like but I think I came away from it generally more favor than what I was anticipating and so we got that movie and then shortly thereafter they do Anchor Man 2 they do Zoolander to I feel like there's one more that I'm missing here that got a late sequel is there any off the top of your head that that is coming to mind that would fit that category I don't know but we do have Happy Gilmore 2 in production right now lovely that's right how could I ever forget Happ Happ I just started watching Adam Sandler's Netflix Special by the way and I've never seen a standup special that has been more clearly directed by the director which is Josh safy there's even the weird guy from uncut gems that comes in at the very beginning of it so I'm I'm enjoying it so far but I haven't actually gotten to Sandler's comedy at all Happy Gilmore too they're filming that in Massachusetts right now right or they did Jersey in Jersey JY that's what I heard Beetlejuice Beetlejuice was filmed in Massachusetts actually I did stick around for the end credits and I saw thank you to the state of Massachusetts for letting us shoot beautiful Fall River are you kidding me they they I mean honestly it doesn't surprise me one bit but Fall River what a dump yeah low low taxes man the the Portuguese people could use it there yeah I guess so oh Super Troopers 2 which was also shot Maybe not maybe it was Rhode Island but that was another late sequel I didn't mind Super Troopers too I didn't mind it one by uh our our old buddy kinson was background on that oh yes kinon Theodor friend of the show kinon theodoris who used to be part of our sketch comedy group for a short amount of time and acted in some of the early headshot LLC sketches but uh why don't we talk about what your history with Beetle Juice is for me I had been given a you know back in the day back in the early 90s you would have three or four movies that were recorded onto a VHS tape and would either be something like your parents would do or maybe an uncle would give it to you I had uh a grandfather who was kind of a step-grandfather really uh who would make me VHS tapes with three or four movies on there he would record them off of blockbusters videos or HBO and then I would get those and Beetle Juice was on one of those and then later on I bought Beetle Juice from Blockbuster and it was always a favorite of mine it was always in the rotation on my VHS shelf and I think I still got it over here to this day so my introduction beet juice came when I was very young probably when I was like three or four years old when did you first watch Beetle Juice from Tim Burton well the first rendition I think that I got of Beetle Juice was the uh the Saturday morning cartoon that was on in the 90s that was the first way and I loved that show as a kid loved it I just I just started tuning they've been playing it for whatever reason on MeTV animated which is a network on the felo app for anybody with the Amazon Fire second I went back and I I I just had it on his background noise after seeing Beetlejuice Beetlejuice because I've been on a a little bit of a Beetlejuice High since watching it yeah yeah and it's on tuby right now too um big on tuby right now but yeah that that was my introduction to the character uh because usually that's what I was watching at the time but the the movie was always around for me and I had always seen parts of it here and there especially around Halloween and just binging anything I could as a kid but never got formly around to watching it until I got a little bit older probably in my teenage years that's when I really actually saw it all the way through for the first time so I didn't have the same experience as a lot of people our age like in our 30s that grew up with this as this perennial childhood classic I mean the show yes I I still remember it vividly uh but the movie I didn't get to see in full it was just one of those ones that kind of passed me by because a lot of other ones at the time like uh I remember seeing peewee's big adventure like Tim Burton's first movie as as a young kid uh and probably Edward Scissor Hands and Batman for sure but Beetle Juice was the one that somehow I missed until I was maybe about 13 give or take what is your feeling about Tim Burton you know what I think he's a mostly really awesome director that lost his way for probably 20 years I think the best thing that I saw from him before tonight's film was uh or the favorite one I saw from him in the past 10 15 years was probably Franken weenie to be hon honest I had a lot of fun with that one and uh he was still aping off an old thing he did when he was in college or something like that and he turned it into a fun kind of universal monster movie Family film with his classic clamation style which he hadn't done in maybe seven eight years at the time since Corpse Bride I think and that was probably the next best movie in line I think that he's done up to now uh yeah in the last 10 to 15 years years but for me I think he's I think he's a director that had a lot of vision and had a lot of great ideas and when they started to work and they started to Jael with the studio system they started to give him money to make essentially either whatever they felt was flavor of the week that he could put his touch on and I think he lost his way then I he probably lost it right I mean it was probably starting before Big Fish even though that was his his a movie and it's it's it's a really good film but then immediately after that you get all the Johnny Depp and Helena bonam Carter collaborations and the there is this like what 12 14e stretch where he makes 80% Mech or bad movies and then he'll make one Frank and weenie here and there that's serviceable and and somewhat memorable so yeah I I think he just got fatigued from being in the system and at the end of the day took the paycheck too which I can't blame him for that but it it it I think it suffered his uh his actual output because as we see with tonight's movie he has a lot left in the tank in my opinion I actually completely agree with that so I think for the longest time everyone felt and it's been probably falsely ascribed that he just got swallowed up by Disney but if you take a look at his film graphy that's not quite the case it seems that he had some sort of um contract with Warner Brothers in the 1990s but it wasn't an exclusive contract or if it was then it was broken after Batman Returns right or around the time of Batman Returns because he does Edward Scissor Hands for Fox in 1990 and then he eventually dips his toes into Disney which he started out at he was an animator if I remember right at disy Disney and he had done a short film of Hansel and gredle for the Disney Channel that was aired maybe one night only have you ever seen this thing because it is really interesting in that it is undistilled Tim Burton no no I haven't seen that what year was it it had to be the mid 80s probably right before peewee's big adventure but there's this Hansel and gredle short film that he shot with I think it was two Japanese children and a Japanese man and another Japanese man and the witch is a crossdresser who tries to abduct Hansel and gredle and you see a lot of the visual Aesthetics that Tim Burton would employ in his subsequent film his future films and also some of the characters so if you remember in Batman 1989 there are these giant balloons that are full of poisonous gas with the Joker's going to kill the citizens of Gotham and you see these kind of like I don't even really know how to describe them they're not quite clowns they look almost like dollish but they look a bit Sinister too and you see these designs in Hansel and gredle and their characters and the witch looks kind of like that and it's just this very strange peculiar short I really liked it I only discovered it kind of recently on YouTube and there's not there's unfortunately not a clean version of it that exists you have to watch either a VHS rip or people have tried to do upscaling with AI and that never really looks good because you can always see that the artifacts are like moving it's just not a natural thing so he does that and there's also the short film of Frank and weeny did you ever see that with Daniel Stern yeah I watched it before I saw the the film that he did in 2012 the major release but that was the only time I watched it so I grew up with Frank and weenie I somehow I wound up with a VHS tape of Frank and weeny as well I was very big on Tim Burton it's kind of very big in the in the in the in the grandpa bootleg scene too apparently did he do that for you too well it no my Frankin weeny tape was a legit tape for the record I don't even know how he would have gotten I don't know why they put it out on video to be frank with you it's kind of strange there's only like a 30 minute movie but I had a VHS tape of Frank and weenie that was like legit and then Batman Returns I had bootleg Batman proper I got that from uh my uncle who was a crackhead in Boston in the late 80s and early 90s and used to dress up as a cop and rob drug dealers and for whatever reason he thought you know what I'm GNA give little baby lores his first uh Christmas gift Batman 1989 it was a couple years after it came out on VHS I have to say that decision to give me that tape impacted everything for me going forward and certainly inspired me to become a director I have to give Tim Burton as much credit as Nicholas if maybe even more credit than Nicholas winding Reen for nudging me to want to make movies watching Batman 40 times before like the age of five uh watching Batman Returns Nightmare Before Christmas uh peewee's big adventure Beetlejuice that string of Warner Brother brother's movies that he did in the late well I didn't mention Nightmare Before Christmas yeah that was a formative One For Me growing up yeah that's a that's a that's a Hallmark for for a lot of 90s kids you know then he produced the uh James and the Giant Peach one as well right he he didn't direct that yes so he did do some producer work he he produced uh The Cabin Boy movie that Elliot uh Chris Elliott I was going to call him Elliot Roger uh Chris Elliott did in the early 9s Batman Forever that was kind of a polite credit he had nothing to do with that in actuality James and the Giant Peach nine which was a not a stopmotion animated movie it was a CG animated movie but it came out in the late auts Abraham Lincoln vampire Hunter that piece of [ __ ] but that movie let him get to know one of the screenwriters of this movie Seth Graham Smith so it kind of works out in the end and then the sequel to Alice and Wonderland did you ever see Alice and Wonderland no no Mei by by that point mentally I checked out on Tim Burton because the uh the and I'm kind of going to reverse course on this the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory movie he did put a really sour taste in my mouth when it first came that's one of the most divisive films period I have never met a person who has felt indifferent about that Charlie and they either think it is a total Abomination or they enjoyed it they liked it I rewatched it for the first first time in about 10 years maybe on HBO Max kind of recently in my opinion of it dipped on this go around and I remember liking it I remember kind of being fond of it and liking what Johnny Depp was doing my opinion has uh risen actually of that film when I had first seen it I mean this is' 05 I'm a purist of the of the original film with Jean Wilder by that time I had seen the original film probably 30 times by then and it was unbeatable in my opinion so when Tim Burton puts his spin on it and Johnny Depp gives this very off-the-wall but not quite leveled out performance I think that really just put a total damper on the on the experience for me but looking back it's it's actually not that bad it's it's I'd say I'd say toes the line of being good but then there's just a couple of choices that Tim Burton makes there that don't seem to really let it stick to Landing Johnny Depp's performances one and then uh what's his name uh deep Deep Roy has all the Oompa loomas um that's a creative decision that didn't work out for me either but aside from that everything else pretty much works I like that he swung for the fences with the character designs and what he was doing with the aesthetic of that movie but I do think that there's a certain charm with Tim Burton especially that is lost the more CG he decides to deck out his sets and uh spaces in the films with and I think that's really where Beetlejuice Beetlejuice makes a comeback for me creatively for for Tim Burton but I do want to run through a couple of these movies that have spamed the last 15 years of his career so we had done a show a while back from a listener of the show who sponsored an episode named Austin he picked Planet of the Apes 2001 for us to watch which that completely disappears from my memory honestly anytime I think about Tim Burton's filmography there's hardly a trace of him in it you get the Danny Elfman score that tracks there's some slightly Gothic things it's a weird Planet of the Apes movie so that may be you could tie back to feeling Tim burtney but on the whole if there's one Tim Burton movie in entire filmography that does not feel like a Tim Burton movie it's that one uh have you watched that one recently on TV in passing I still remember the first time I saw it it was around Christmas 2001 and we rented it from Blockbuster and uh I I still remember at the time being very impressed by the by the costume effects and a lot of the fight scenes and but even me by the end of the film I was just struck with this a filled sense of man this is stupid I think it it was actually the meme you posted maybe two weeks ago of when he goes over to when wallberg goes back into DC and he sees Abraham Lincoln at the Lincoln oh man that was probably my favorite part of the movie to be honest I think I was bored by the rest I mean I thought okay on paper this could be really interesting I like the Planet of the Apes films I like Tim Burton Mark Wahlberg when I went to go see this in the theater when I was 10 or 11 years old I was just kind of like all right but I'll give it I'll give it here's what I'll complement it on I think it has some of the best ape effects or Prosthetics of any Planet of the Apes movies I mean it's certainly going to look better a lot longer than the new Trilogy they did and probably the new one they threw out in theaters so I think it nailed the look of the Apes but the story The I mean the performance or whatever that people were acting as he he was fine right M Michael Clark Duncan was fine Tim Roth is great but there's not a lot to grab on to and and feel like okay this is a movie I want to see through to the end so I I had a problem with that big fish you would mentioned before that's kind of his Oscar Bay movie where people are finally taking him seriously I think Weinstein produced that right yeah okay and I haven't watched that in a long time I don't have it rated on my letter box or anything because of that but I I don't remember leaving a strong impression upon me we talked about Charlie in the Chocolate Factory that came next in 2005 big year for Warner Brothers Corpse Bride also came out during that time and it was kind of the spiritual sequel to The Nightmare Before Christmas did you watch this movie oh but I I've maybe seen it once and it was back then it was back in like' 06 so and uh I remember well what I remember of it is it didn't have a bad impression on me but it it's gotten a massive following in the years since it might not have stuck the landing entirely in ' 06 I think when it came out but uh it's it's definitely found its audience yeah Corpse Bride I don't think I've ever watched there's a couple of blind spots for me in the Tim Burton filmography that's one and Sweeney Todd is another one I remember Sweeney Todd really becoming a favorite with the [ __ ] theater kids at my I'm trying to watch it it didn't work for me it not that it's bad it's that uh it felt really tonally off it's this Gothic musical horror and it's Blood and Guts and uh I I just didn't like all the the gray scale and the the phoned in CGI it just didn't work for me like and yeah it was what kind of what do you mean by what was uh CGI Laden and swing Todd I haven't seen it from what I remember just that I mean really a lot of the environment uh and I could be wrong but it it definitely had that effect on me where I I I wasn't engrossed in anything that was going on it felt very fake and uh I I just didn't like the the whole vibe just didn't work for me okay so there is a commonality that is coming about here that starts with Charlie the Chocolate Factory of that CGI injection can you give me one sec yep of course I'll use this opportunity to promote patreon.com if you join the $5 tier you're going to get a very Beetle juicy video of this episode and head on over to YouTube because I've been putting out clips and full episodes left and right of our recent shows so check out Lowes Wonderbread on YouTube and if you'd like to sponsor an episode join us in what was previously known as the $100 tier for $100 on patreon.com Lowes you yes you can decide a film for us to talk about on this show imagine that we've actually covered maybe about 10 to 15 films at this point we have more lined up in the queue that we have to do one of them is called goodbye I think it's called goodbye to Uncle Tom and as soon as somebody mentioned this movie of course the title is very striking and I decided to Google it and the poster was very interracially charged so I don't know what we're in for there kind of reminded me a little bit of the Holy Mountain the Andrew excuse me the jarowski film Andrew Andrew DKI of the Jinx is who I was thinking of that's a very different man the Alejandro jarowski film so maybe that'll be good but listen you can pick a new movie for us to cover and we will add it to the Slate so hey welcome back Jacob biller cinematology go follow him on x at the toist welcome back good to be back good to be back I just had a you know an emergency that was in the bathroom nothing nothing uh nothing too crazy just a good old bloody [ __ ] is what he had to fix up had to stuff well that's what the thought of Sweeney Todd gave me old yeah that's the demo for Hemorrhage uh after Sweeney Todd we have Alice and Wonderland which neither one of us have watched but we can tell just from the poster just from the trailer from everything I've ever seen of that movie that there's hardly any real Craftman craftsmanship ship excuse me put into the the set design and everything it seemed very digital to me Dark Shadows did you watch Dark Shadows that was one I intended to see but I I never got around to seeing it in the theater and then I just heard that it was very strange offbeat movie that kind of didn't even know what it was W did you ever watch the TV show Dark Shadows no I I watched a lot of TV Land as a kid but I never remember seeing that you know Dark Shadows was one that constantly played in the morning on Sci-fi channel and so I was exposed to it that way and my memory of it was that it was essentially just a soap opera it was a soap opera with vampires and I later watched there were two movies that were produced from that TV show and one took a trailer park boy style Direction where they said okay let's just compact everything from this part of the TV show and turn it into well re-shoot it it wasn't like a uh you know we're drawing from episodes and shaping that into a new movie they decided to re-shoot many scenes from the TV show and turn it into a film I think it was called the house of Dark Shadows and that was like an okay it yeah the house of Dark Shadows 1970 and that was a decent 1970s vampire film and then there was a sequel called the night of Dark Shadows I haven't seen that one so this was the third it was unrelated to the TV show itself it was not a continuation of it it was a remake and the first thing I remember seeing from the movie was Johnny Deb's extremely off-putting hairstyle of just like the wet hair stuck to his head look I did wind up watching it in a hotel in Miami many years ago and it did not do it for me and that's unfortunate because I I liked the cast I thought okay he's back at Warner Brothers he's working with Johnny Depp Michelle feifer Johnny Lee Miller this could be interesting it was not interesting it was a turd so dark shadows that is one to miss that's from 2012 he seems to double up on the years he puts out animated movies because Franken weeny comes out that same year and I agree with you I think Franken weeny is one of the better more recent ones and it felt like old Tim Burton you have his designs and everything in the movie it it it was a fun time for a later Disney movie yeah for me that uh we'll get to the new Beetle Juice uh that to me the night I walked into to see Beetle Juice Beetlejuice that was Tim Burton's best movie uh of the last 10 15 years um yeah I mean Big Fish would maybe just hit that cut off uh no no that was 20 21 years ago wow so yeah yeah easily Far and Away his best the last 10 15 years the other Weinstein produced movie that was not a highly stylized children's film or graphic film was big eyes which starred I think it was Amy Adams and Kristoff Waltz and I remember seeing that one and that also did not leave a strong impression on me it was just know that one existed it was very mid it was very standard he follows that up in 2016 with Miss parag greens Home for Peculiar Children this is another one I have not watched this this kind of what I'm talking about that it was after Charlie and the Chocolate Factory I think because that one was actually a hit that he branched off into this this very specific kind of film that was um I would say it's little bit on the kitty or tweeny side sort of and he he mostly did films like that I mean with the exception of again a Sweeney Todd or I would even cut Franken we a break he did these typical kids in a mystical place with an eccentric kind of leading the way and he seemed to really get backed into that corner for the better part of a decade or more really I think from how well I guess financially Char in the Chocolate Factory did that he he just kept getting hired for these kinds of roles next he does two Alice and wonder wonderland movies he does the Miss parag Green's [ __ ] children school or whatever uh then then he does Dumbo and then he Associates with all these similar product or projects uh of that vein and it just seems like he he was in that box where he didn't necessarily have the creative freedom but they wanted his creative eye for these kind of fairy tale ideas and it just didn't work for you a guy that was you know essentially going into adulthood like I was during a lot of this stretch yeah I mean it seems very unfor like I I would think not even that long ago we were talking about him as the creative genius who went astray and went corporate and was so against that well not even necessarily against it because he did start out at Disney but his itic and his style was so in the face of whatever the popular commercial Vibe was of any given time and wound up defining it by being successful in that field it's a sad outcome when you're looking at Miss perig Green's Home for Peculiar Children in Dark Shadows in allice and Wonderland 2019 this is the film that precedes Beetlejuice bej he reunites with Michael Keaton for the first time since Batman Returns and does dumbo which also has Danny DeVito in it there's a few Batman alum in the film I was coaxed into renting Dumbo I had no interest in renting Dumbo even though I was excited about the prospect of Michael Keaton and Tim Burton working together for the first time in so long it's one of my favorite Dynamic Duos and I actually came away with a kind of favorable opinion of Dumbo I kind of like Dumbo did you ever see this Dumbo I skipped it it was after after I think it was after which Disney liveaction remake that I I just totally threw brushed him off to the side um what the hell one was it it was I saw like one of them and I said that's enough for me like I don't need to see these anymore and the these liveaction remakes don't have the they don't have the soul of the original animated films and um this dumball one just kind of well to make a pun it just kind of flew over my head and uh and you know I didn't have any like uh discontent for it it was just that I just didn't want to spend my time on it it was that and then The Lion King movie the same year and then the guy Richie Aladdin that all came out like the same year guy Richie Aladdin is one I completely memory hold which which I did see that actually actually about a year and a half ago or almost two years ago inadvertently when I was staying at a motel I saw it on on TV and I'm a huge guy Richie fan I I love his work and I was like holy crap how did he make this and let alone it made over a billion dollars um star power I guess and then just the power of the M of the mouse until now but um yeah the the Dumbo movie just looked to me like really phoned in and these liveaction Recreations that were doing just did have not interested me I I I can't okay there was one that I thought was serviceable it was the Pete's Dragon movie that's actually decent that's another one I totally remember listen I haven't paid that much attention clearly to what Disney's been up to I didn't know they did a pizza dragon that was years ago that was 2016 I think and I I thought that was their only serviceable one they did and after that I was like okay what not I'm not s through all these anymore not Beauty and the Beast not Lion King what why so well we finally arrive in 2024 at Beetlejuice Beetlejuice the long awaited sequel to The 1988 Tim Burton film which I know it's been a longstanding talking point for film fans on shows just like this but did you know it was almost Beetle Juice goes Hawaiian written by Kevin Smith could you imagine that timeline I would have seen that I'd go see that right now so or was it pre-heart attack Kevin Smith or yeah well it was actually um pre m rats probably Kevin Smith it was pre- chasing Amy Dogma they tried to get him for that in the late 90 I think it was 96 or 97 whenever he did the script to Superman lives that was around the time that they were courting him for Beetle Juice ghost wine and he said no so he actually didn't write the script he said no but they wanted to take Beetlejuice to Hawaii in the 90s well it was a different time who knows maybe it could have worked it would have been a better move for Michael Keon he did Jack Frost instead and that one hold on hold on that oh you're Jack Frost fan the power of nostalgia is amazing I watched that I watched that a couple of you know I think I watched it this last Christmas and I was like this movie is kind of insane this movie is actually a little ridiculous so ridiculous it's amazing it's industrial Light and Magic's worst possible creation made in into just a just a symphony of craziness that can only be enjoyed through Nostalgia but if you watch it with that that mindset it's unabashedly entertaining as a little kid though when it came out uh I I loved it as a little kid because I liked the silliness and the the talking snowman and and I I had recognized Michael Keaton as an actor as a little kid from seeing him in other stuff so it was like even the star power back then was cool but yeah rough year for Mr Katon yeah that was the that was the beginning of the down turn for Keon I really loved his 50-year-old rocker character trying to make it at his age with that hairpiece and the guy from Still Standing yeah and I I fully I fully subscribe to the theory that they had George Clooney originally for that because of the the snowman's face and appearance mirroring him closer to Michael Keaton Michael Keaton got like a more of a I don't want to say like a squirrely look to him but he definitely has more of a I don't know just a crazy eye look than George cloney's safe I wouldn't even say he has a bland face but just a very safe Modern Man face but anyway Michael Keaton took him a long time to get out of acting person he did the Need for Speed movie he did what was it uh Herby fully loaded with Lindsay Lohan there's a lot of very bad Michael keth movies from the ASDS into the early 10s until he lands Birdman which is supposed to be a gimmick film it was like hey remember when he played Batman okay we're doing Birdman and that's I I I thought Birdman was an excellent movie I went to go see that in the theater twice and it was during this time of being very easily impressed with one shots if you do just one tracking shot for the entire even if it's fake even if you you know you're cutting uh it still looks cool and it was cool in 2014 when that movie came out and I thought it deserved to win best I was very happy to see that it won best picture so that was a that was a great return for Michael Keaton I thought I still I'm I feel very upset that he got robbed by Eddie redm for The Theory of Everything very undeserved where is he now where's Eddie redm now no one thinks about him he put on a dress and he disappeared Tail as old as time yeah uh Spotlight came out the year year after Michael Keaton does back-to-back Best Picture winners and that kind of keeps him safe it makes him uh more firmly planted in Hollywood he doesn't go the Mickey roor route of going back to the direct DVD gutter after being nominated for best actor at the Academy Awards and he's stuck around since then also actually you know what a good movie we covered for this show that features him before his comeback is the remake of Robocop where he PR the bad guy he's that's right he is the bad guy in that one and if you notice before Birdman and actually including Birdman but before he made it back he's got a lisp I don't think his Dentures or his veneers were as good and then he was able to afford better veneers D and the lisp goes away I remember hearing his lisp in Toy Story 3 when he plays Ken oh yes I forgot I have a whole workshop for putting on clothes and I was like what happened to Michael happened to him surely that Batman money's going to keep rolling in you could be able to for but I guess not I guess not Paul Sher also another guy who had a lisp the lisp went away when he got rich enough and now is kind of bad now's a a bit maybe he's just stronger I don't know but Beetle Juice Beetle Juice we gotta we finally have to talk about Beetle Juice Beetle Juice now it what what is telling me the 48 minute Mark of this episode so we've done our due diligence on Tim Burton's recent streak of film making this movie I saw the announcement that it was being shot probably a little over a year ago I was like okay wow finally we're fi you know the Beetle Juice movie is actually going to be a thing and after the flash happened I was like this is going to bomb this isn't going to go well because the Nostalgia is not there The Nostalgia and maybe this kind of makes it seem like the Nostalgia is there and the Flash was just tainted by Ezra Miller and three or four years in development hell in production because Michael Keaton coming back to play Batman for that movie should have been huge should have done gang busters at the cinema it didn't it did what would have been decent numbers if the budget was lower but because you know the budget was so high from re-shoot the movie was a flop considered I think the flash is a good movie it was still considered a flop this movie has outperformed expectations and frankly I didn't expect people to show up for Beetle Juice in 2024 in this kind of way I'm very pleased to see it though well I think it's a great example if you look at the whole cast I mean and Tim Burton obviously is always going to carry water as a name when it comes to films but this is something he is personally invested in but if you look at the cast it's actually like the perfect time for this movie to come out so obviously you had your introduction about Michael Keaton he's been on the come up for the last decade and now he's at the point where at 73 years old he's a box office commodity again he's immediately going to get a whole portion of movie goers back into the seat then you have Winona Ryder going off stranger things I mean we I have conflicting thoughts about that but the newest season they did was their best yet and she's at a new height in her career like maybe the most famous she's been ever I think I I don't know if she's had a peak like this she had small spurts in the late 80s and early 90s probably ended around the time she did the Copa Dracula then she has a small Resurgence in the in the odds but now she's huge now she's a real name then you get kind of out of nowhere Katherine O'Hara who who's coming off of shits Creek which is a massive success uh for her Eugene Levy and that whole cast so and then you have the biggest young star in the industry right now in Jenna Ortega who's still um who's still to cut her teeth and find uh her role as a leading woman in the the film industry because she got the the whole Wednesday show but she's portrayed as a child even though I think she's 21 or 22 years old yeah yeah she's going to be in her mid 20s right and even in this movie She's portrayed as a teenager I forgot about Wednesday so that was another thing for Tim Burton I haven't watched it he said that's what really steered him into Beetlejuice mode because he was able to produce a show like he would a film and that and he said that really energized him so good for that show is I mean Mega hit for him one over a whole generation of young people so so good I mean it's it's not for me I don't think I'm going to ever watch it anytime soon but good for him and it mobilized this project so you have ironically 30 years later the absolute perfect Mo moment for this movie to be made and it was in development hell for yeah like we said 20 25 years and somehow some way 35 36 years later is the most opportune and best time for this to happen and so even me and and I was really hoping I was going to like this when I saw the first images come from set um and then the first teaser I was really excited because I was like wow this is actually finally happening Tim Burton seems like he he's emotionally invested in this the cast is I wanted to like it and I wanted it to do well I just didn't think it would do this well this fast it was made for $100 million and at at the time of this recording we're only 5 days after its release and it's made like $150 $160 million most of that domestically so whether it was the perfect moment because of all the cast or just because there always was an audience for this movie it's it's blowing the lid off off the box office and we'll get into the reasons why in a few minutes but I mean I couldn't be happier for a success like this because it it just shows it it's a a special moment when a movie like this gets its moment at the right time is made and it's made right and it delivers and yeah it it's I I'm very very much Happy with how it's been panning out well we we talked a bit about Michael Keaton's career trajectory Winona Rider is somebody who I think got derailed for two reasons I think Christina RI kind took her spot in the late 90s where she was getting a lot of rle she was kind of the goth cute teenage girl and then Christina RI comes along with The Adams Family movies and does a similar thing and maybe has better acting chops during that time I think Winona Ryder probably also this is just speculation based off of some of her shoplifting habits in the early odds she probably had some other bad habits I would imagine she was hanging out with like Johnny actually she was romantically involved with Johnny Depp in the 9s too right maybe they even wanted to married I don't I don't remember I don't know I don't remember but uh when know to Rider now uh she's she's kind of a bit on a hot streak I guess with stranger things and now this which you had gotten into and she looks good for 50 she's a CutiePie she I think she's better looking than Jen Ortega personally I'll take I'll take my on Rider uh for 52 years old she doesn't look old yeah um although you know Jenna Ortega I think she does a good job here I'm not that familiar with her acting outside of um she was in something else but I can't I can't remember she was in Tai West's X okay all yeah yeah yeah that that's what I was thinking that was one of the big introductions I got to her and then she's been in the Scream movies so it's kind of funny she started with X and then she's played progressively younger rool it's like you started with the porn horror movie and now you're playing Wednesday Adams and now you're playing teenage girl and Beetlejuice Beetlejuice is a little little strange uh Katherine Oar now I noticed something here with this Beetle Juice and this is maybe one of my few complaints about the movie my technical complaint is you know you and I we edit our own videos and we are certainly proficient in Da Vinci resolve and da Vinci resolve has this tool this plugin where you can remove blemishes from somebody's face and we've sent each other examples back and forth of you know just messing around with that and the blur that can be caused on somebody's face to remove acne or aging or uh you know alcoholic sores all types of stuff and Katherine O'Hara they really touched up her face pretty heavy in some of these shots and it was noticeable to me cuz she she like her cheek seemed way out of focus when her eyes and everything else would be in focus and then you look at somebody else then you look at like Justin thoro and it' be like oh that looks normal but then Katherine O'Hara they're really being dedicated to hiding her 70 or 80 however the hell old she is she's like 70 71 I think yeah she's 70 okay okay yeah well I mean that's a minor thing for me um I guess I didn't notice it too much because I was I don't know I was just kind of in gross Isa an IMAX and surprisingly and we'll get into it even more this is one of the best experiences I've had in IMAX in a while that isn't a bombastic huge Christopher Nolan movie really see I I wanted to see it in IMAX my local theater doesn't do IMax it's very rare I get that pleasure they do RPX or what whatever the offbrand version of IMAX is the last thing I saw on IMAX was alien Romulus I thought that looked terrific on the screen RPX wasap Challengers Beetle Juice I would have really enjoyed to see in that that theater um but it was a it was a good experience it sounds like it honestly it was so surprising because I remember when I was seeing the promotions for the film and the posters and everything it's said see it and IMAX and I thought wow that's really ambitious that's probably why they had a hundred million Budget on this was that I believe they probably shot a lot of sequences on IMAX which is obviously expensive and I just couldn't believe how amazing this looked in IMAX I mean you can believe it because of the design of a Tim Burton film but I guess you don't expect it because of uh beetlejuice's original kind of U reputation as Tim Burton sophore films was still kind of a little bit of a of a smaller effort and they they use sets and they yeah they really maximized production value and potential but this is all that dialed up to a 100 like the the Soul Train amazing like such a great idea such a fun idea but then the way it's captured and how that looks on an IMAX screen you feel like you're there like I usually don't Fawn this much but I I really uh the the production design is so well accentuated in IMAX and uh I I felt so immersed in the in the world of the afterlife and all the settings that they had I would totally recommend if for anybody that hasn't seen it yet or if you'd like to see it again I would say try to get that that iMac show because it was overwhelming in how much uh it engrossed me the Soul Train joke felt like something that was left over from that original Beetle Juice that they never got to use because it's such a dated ref like I nobody gen Z Would Understand A soul train reference and I really enjoyed that and and I I I I wanted to talk a little bit too about some of the newcomers in this movie some of the new actors they threw into the mix and it was kind of remarkable that they were able to get so many of the original cast members back obviously there's one big glaring Omission in Jeffrey Jones which I put out a clip kind of recently talking about that but even that Tim bur's kind of giving a [ __ ] you to War I I here's what I suspect I don't know anything I haven't heard anything I suspect Warner Brother said we're not putting Jeffrey Jones in the movie because Jeffrey Jones got up to no good about 20 years ago in his shed with a camera and Tim Burton said yeah I like Jeffrey Jones he was one of my guys I don't whatever uh let's put him all over the movie and so you have his face on The Headstone you have the stopmotion sequence that shows his death that looks exactly like him I was stunned when they decided okay we're going to do that and then you have a version of him that is just missing from about the abdomen up who's walking around and spurting there's also a lot of a lot more Gore in this Beetlejuice than the original Beetlejuice and it's played for laughs and it works really well in my opinion um so you you have most of that main cast back but then you have some new people like we talked about jenet oras in here but you also have Justin thorough who he's never really been a guy that I've gone oh I like that he's involved in this movie or I like that he's you but he's not like bad he never takes away in fact he usually adds he has a cool Look to Him especially movies like mhal and drive it's very late 90s Trent resner 9inch nail style of look to that he's uh he's great in the leftovers which that was his PA's the resistance I think in terms of his performances a Damon L lindeloff show but it actually works and uh he's he plays Kevin the lead in that and that's really where I became like a big fan of his because i' had only seen Mullen Drive like once the second handedly before I watched The Leftovers and uh so yeah like I'm a I'm pretty I wouldn't say like a big fan of Justin thorell but I've really liked some of his work so to get him into the mix and he typically doesn't play those uh very comedic roles so to see him play it in this instance was a I mean he made it a lot of fun he he made I think he made the character uh a little bit more dimensional than maybe he was on paper and I I I think the payoff with him by the end is I just had a ton of fun with his his character because you know he's a jack off and uh he he just plays it so well and he's kind of our substitute I guess for oo from the original where he's this con artist who's circling the family and trying to take advantage the best he can and he winds up suffering uh a pretty morbid Fate In the End along with another new character which is beetlejuice's ex-wife Dolores played by Monica beluchi who's Tim Burton's current not spouse but just significant other I guess they're romantically attached what an upgrade from Helena Bonham Carter no off we are so back and so is Tim Burton he he makes his best movie in 20 25 years almost 30 years and and he's dating this like Italian chick that looks pretty damn good for her age she's younger than him yeah and uh lot of people had mentioned her role in the movie isn't as substantial as it kind of teases but I got to say every minute she was on screen I was into it uh I I don't think it was meant to be the very weighty role that a lot of people thought it was being teased as but like almost every other aspect of this movie I I had a lot of fun with her character when she was on screen the uh Mario Bava style flashback to their their backstory is is a real treat and and a hell of a lot of fun and I yeah I did like the black and white additions that cut back into beetlejuice's uh backstory that show him murdering the wife after she's poisoned him and everything I I thoroughly enjoyed that oh yeah well I mean this is why it's probably Tim Burton's best movie since Mars Attacks like I think you pointed out because this is one that comes from the heart and comes from what he loves and and so he interjects his his influences again Mario Bava a couple more in there probably like Universal uh monster movies and and all that and he interjects us into this world that he's already built and so what the result is is that the world of the afterlife and then even the the real world in in the world of Beetlejuice feels so much more enriched because we've got the foundation but what do they do they go even deeper and they put these really cool set pieces and ideas in there that add a lot to the world that we didn't see the first time around like I love the gag at the end which is essentially we always knew the afterlife was like the DMV so to speak and that that's the big punchline of the original but when you see that there's levels to it and different bureaucracies and then one of the characters tries to use it to their advantage and in a huge laugh for me uh beetle juu is able to able to infiltrate that that office and uh another character meets a horrible demise what did you think of William defo being added to the cast here because when I saw him come up I thought okay another movie will Willam defo he's in [ __ ] everything we can't escape Willam defo And yet when I watched the movie he was maybe one of my favorite parts of the film especially among the new cast I really enjoyed his uh fake police officer actor character on the case well yeah I think this adds to the point I was making of that Tim Burton puts in so many new elements and this is a a problem I guess a lot of people had with the movie that I didn't mind at all is that he added this other element into the movie of this wolf Jackson character played by William defo who is a former television or movie detective that like died on set and now he's a detective in the afterlife and that just adds and enriches in this world of the afterlife even more and just shows uh just I I think for one how much fun Tim Burton is having making this movie and then the Ingenuity that is just so easily breathed into this after almost really almost 40 Years of dorcy and it's like he didn't skip a beat and he had a whole bunch of ideas maybe left over like you said from the first film that they couldn't afford that for this he puts in and it just makes it makes not one moment of this movie boring to me too many people I think had this very rehearsed or coldblooded criticism of well there's too many characters and there's too many subplots there's too much going on it should be simple like the original where on the contrary I would argue my one issue with the original as brilliant of a movie as it is is that I feel like it leaves a little to be desired I think it leaves a little it doesn't put everything on leave everything on the field so to speak whereas this one I think if it if it was more simplistic I think audiences would have checked out they might have gotten bored and this I with everything going on to me there's not one dull moment in the movie and especially from the Midway point to the end I was having a ball there was not one moment of this movie I didn't enjoy uh especially by that point that's an interesting point so I think there's validity to the gripe that there's too much going on here because you do wind up seeing the Dolores character beetlejuice's ex-wife and Justin Thor's Rory character get dispatched at the end in kind of a very quick fashion however to your point I think if we're then looking to narrow the subplots out of the film and focus strictly on one of these then you're losing a lot of great characters because even if maybe they don't have the most rich or satisfying conclusion they add so much to the Moon movie itself and World building and seeing how the relationships develop with uh the Lydia de's character or Jenna or's asterid character I think any one of these could have been their own movie right it kind of did feel like they mashed a bunch of earlier drafts of the script together but I liked them all I had a good time with all of them so I don't really have uh uh you know I don't there's no weight to that complaint in a way that impacts the movie itself I liked so the actor's name is Arthur Ki who plays this kid who murdered his parents and tricks astred who is wiona riters lyy de's character's daughter into going into the Afterlife so he can redeem his life and come back and she can stay there I like all of that aspect the fact he's wearing a James Dean jacket he's got 90s music and I honestly didn't think because so much was going on I didn't think it was going in that direction I was like surely this is just going to be a nice boy yeah was a cool twist I under thought it because of that and I enjoyed that turn that things took and then getting to even meet a character I didn't think we were going to meet which was the the father to the asid character and how he's got these fishes that are very annoying with their sound effects that just they make sound over his speaking um and again you you also have uh Danny DeVito's short cameo which I thought was also very enjoyable for the limited time he's on screen we have him in the movie as well uh and he's the first victim from the Dolores character but I'll tell you what right now my favorite character in this movie is Bob Bob was my favorite Bob made me laugh for just doing nothing just this stupid blank nervous expression on his face that was probably no different than any other shrunken I just kept laughing anytime Bob was on screen and I loved that they killed Bob I loved that they killed Bob because Bob could have been turned into the little cute doll action figure whatever Tim Burton's not sentimental Tim Burton knows this is you you could we can do away with all of this it doesn't matter and Bob has his little head exploded and his eyes pop out and I appreciated that I hate the sentimentality that is taken over mainstream film it's the dog and prey not just surviving but killing the Predator doing what it's just enough of that Bob died and I appreciate that Bob died well you're right as much as I think everybody loved Bob uh the last thing I would want to see Bob become is baby Yoda yes that would be atrocious to go into Walmart and see little dolls of Bob that your baby can walk around with and it's stroller well I mean you can that can still happen but at least it doesn't have to be this person existing thing so as as and in a funny way when Bob gets killed off it does add a little bit of a weight to the movie it it it adds meaning to everything else that's going on now now I know it's a chaotic circus of of death and like Gore and everything but uh when when Bob is taken out that really shows the audience that it doesn't that what the audience or maybe the consumer base wants doesn't matter matter Tim Burton is still going to be his unrelenting self because he's gotten a massive budget and he's doing something he loves and he's not going to compromise because after his experience making Dumbo he made it very clear that he wanted to go back to making movies the way he wanted and I will say one more thing about just the Litany of characters and kind of what's going on here I did see a couple good notes online so I can't take total credit for this but even just think about the aesthetic and think about the nature of what Beetle juu entails as a movie as a character and in many people's memories it's all about chaos even think of the the musical compet composition by Denny Elfman it's chaos and that's why I think all these elements that are in the film and every single one of them is either funny or entertaining so that's I mean that's a huge plus it adds to the nature of chaos that is the Beetle Juice aura I mean the the the way he acts and the amount of sequences that he's remembered for to build a whole world around that and to not make it a one note kind of yuck Fest of Beetlejuice having to riff and carry a movie entirely by himself which didn't happen in the first film by the way he's in 17 minutes of the first film and I think he's in 25 of this one which is about 15 minutes longer than the original film um it really allows the audience to enjoy the world more and and the characters in totality doesn't make it a one- Noe film and that's why I think it was also a creative decision on Keaton's part when coming back for this he said we we've got to keep it sparing with Beetlejuice so that he doesn't lose his sting so that was a big surprise based off of the trailers I thought and I made a review of this of the original be be juice before I even saw this movie and it was something to the effect of childhood is thinking there's too little Beetlejuice and Beetle juu adulthood is understanding there's just the right amount of Beetle Juice in Beetle Juice and I worried with this movie okay are we going to shift into having Beetle juu as kind of a lead character and no they don't do that the movie it I feel like this is a significantly longer movie than Beetle maybe I'm wrong about that I don't know maybe we'll take a look at the run time here 104 minutes what is original the original is a solid 90 right on the nose okay all right so yeah it's a bit longer but I feel like the percentage of beetle juu in this movie is about even with the amount of Beetlejuice in that first movie it's pretty close I think he has more to do here but for the most part he doesn't overstay his welcome we're kind of stuck with the Deets family and that's how it should be um and I I I I think you know Michael Keaton does a terrific job the fact he was able to pick up this charact and he's got a real knack for doing this because it was the same thing with Batman when he played Bruce Wayne in the flash to pick up a character that you haven't played in almost 35 years and and just have it be seamless is kind of remarkable it shows a real depth to your talent as an actor so uh you know mention the energy level of that character that he has to portray in his early 70s yeah he's I think he's 72 so he just turned 73 right as the movie came out it was like his birthday um the amount of energy you need to play that and remember when you're shooting this movie 12 hour shoot days and and you're going at a heat this is probably a six seven week shoot I would think so two three weeks he's going 12 hours a day probably at that energy level and as an aging guy that that's an incredible an incredible feat to accomplish for a character that has massive shoes to fill even if you're the one filling them again like you've already set the precedent that's remarkably difficult to do so many years later in at a somewhat Advanced age absolutely and um they leave this movie off on a note of potentially picking it up for a third one which I feel I would be game for that but I think this is such a it kind of feels like the Tim Burton reunion special because it's not just the cast that's back and it features many of his regulars from that time period we also have Bo Welch I believe who did the production design for Beetlejuice he's back and he's married to Katherine O'Hara so maybe that was easy to get and then you have Danny Alman of course but I noticed a couple names and the credits that I remember seeing in the end scroll for either Beetlejuice or Batman back in the day so there are quite a few of the original heads that were involved and I think that went a long way because this movie absolutely top to bottom for me anyway feels like old Tim Burton this is what I've wanted from Tim Burton for a long time in terms of what kind of aesthetic he is going to portray on the screen and just the level of craftsmans ship that you see in every detail in every frame of this movie between the costume design the set design um it's really something to admire and I kind I I already want to go back and watch this movie there's a very few movies I've seen this year where I was like yeah let's do let's do round two is it this movie I'm I'm absolutely GNA see this movie again I I'm probably GNA see it this coming weekend again in IMAX like 100% I had so much fun with this and yeah I don't think we stated really enough because there is a lot to unpack with this because of how much is going on but I would say for anybody that hasn't seen it is that all those plot elements make this the antithesis of a boring movie there's not one boring minute in this4 104 minute movie and what do you think is the weakest element of it maybe the weakest element uh of it to me is a little bit in the First Act where it's just getting its wheels turning again it's still funny uh it does feel like a good return to form but it it seems like getting them back to um uh winter the the the town from the original film uh Winters damn it I forget the name of the town uh it seems like getting them back there is a little bit of a chore so there's a tiny bit of slowness in the First Act for me that I was like okay I get it it's 36 years we got to build back up to um but I mean really to me that even for me is a nitpick um it's it's very easy to get I think roped into the moment with a lot of these films but this is honestly the most fun I've had in the theater probably in a couple years like the I had such a blast with this movie from beginning to end that it's not perfect of course but it's damn very very good I gave it a four and a half on letter box for a reason because I was just maybe my expectations were slightly lower because I had a I had a very lowkey fear that it would be adjacent to Ghostbusters afterlife something like that which which is very lukewarm and just as a couple things right that that was my fear going into this but what I was given was a totally chaotic unabashed handcrafted film made with love of the original and from the original creators it's not like it's not like a passing the torch sequel none of that crap and it keeps the nature of the uh of the original film intact while still trying to push its own boundaries and and uh it was just I just didn't know that I was going to have this much fun with it I wanted to like it and I wanted it to do well but uh it was definitely by the second act and going all the way to the end I was laughing my ass off and and then just to be immersed in that world was I couldn't get enough of it it and to me it was like I kind of put myself in the shoes of obviously a I'm I'm a grown man these days but I thought about if let's say I was 13 and I went to the theater to watch this this would be the coolest freaking movie I probably had ever seen if I was a 13-year-old kid and especially under the Halloween veneer and it will be a steeple for for that and for I think a whole new generation of young people and uh and still the people that grew up on it as well now something I've seen with some people and I might have felt it a little bit is that the movie they've made the remark that the movie loses its way around the time of the wedding because the wedding scene carries on with a musical sequence for a stretch of time after the guess at what would have been the Rory character Justin throw and Lydia de's characters are supposed to be wet I love that he's just such an opportunist that he's using uh the wake of her Father Charles Deets as an opportunity to propose some people have complained that the movie loses a little bit of steam with that and I don't know if I feel that way or if I don't feel I feel like I'm going to have to watch that again but even if it did I feel like it picks up wherever that that concludes anyhow so what did you how did you feel about I guess that sequence do you feel like there's any flaw in that well I think to kind of build on what we were saying before of all the plot elements that are building to that point and how much is going on so on one hand you have a fraction of the audience that says there's way too much going on at once and oh I I just couldn't keep my head on straight and then the movie purposely when we get to that wedding scene puts everything on hold to let well for one a really funny scene play out because that whole musical scene I thought was hilarious um and then to really just get back to the core of the story which is Beetle Juice has always been pursuing Lydia in the years since and it and it's come to this where she's essentially dead to rights via contract until we figure out there's a loophole but what happens is that uh the wolf Jackson character and all his uh goons bust into the place and Beetlejuice snaps them and freezes them cold and like in their tracks we which is again a funny gag and uh it it allows the movie to slow down for a minute so on the one hand there I don't know I don't know if I agree with that because there's this weird dichotomy of people saying there's too much going on and it goes too fast but then when it takes a break toward the end of the film to hone in on the Crux of the of the of the film and the last one that's not good enough I don't know it to me like I said there was not one moment of the film that I didn't enjoy and didn't have fun with and then for it to come back to again Monica beluchi Dolores comes in and Rory comes in they get their come up and in a really funny way uh yeah it obviously is a call back to the first film but who didn't want to see sand worms in this and then again the gag with Beetlejuice dressed as a matador was so so funny to me like I think my silly hat was just on was just screwed on completely tight because when I saw that I was like that's gold uh and to not repeat the same gag of him getting eaten up by that too you know the worms that's right this continues to be the year of big sand ruling the Box off these ones were way better than Dune I I would second that they kind of had did the original Beetle Juice have the alien mouth in the mouth of the S okay so that's how he got away with cribbing from the Dune sandworms and doing his rendition of them uh okay yeah no I mean I'm I'm like I said I'm very happy to see that this movie is doing so well at the box office and it it's kind of wild that it is I did want to go back to the original point though so they set up a third movie would you be more interested in seeing a Beetlejuice Beetlejuice beetlejuice or another Tim Burton film maybe a continuation of something older that he had done from the 90s or something brand new with some configuration of this older group that he had cut his teeth with in that period I can answer that two ways uh the first way I'll say is that my knee-jerk reaction because I've Loved Beetlejuice Beetlejuice so much um if you didn't if you didn't latch on to that is um I would love to see another if this is the level they can keep it at and I do believe they have the team and the people to do it and in the moment is still right if they if they wanted to do one last one I'd be all for it but they would need to do it within the next two to three years uh because Michael Keaton will be 75 76 and he's eventually going to run out of steam um you you don't want him to cross the Rubicon of being 80 and you do the last one um so I would love to see another now that being said there is something to be said about this being a triumphant return why don't you leave it alone it you could stop right here and I'd be totally happy because of how how much I enjoyed this movie and how I think it'll really hold up and stand the test of time next to the original so as much as I'd like to see another it's got to happen in two to three years Max and um it's got to feel right so only if Tim Burton's feeling inspired to do it and he kind of signaled that he's not really motivated to do another so if there's a will there's a way I'd love to see just one last look into that world and hopefully have as much fun now on the other hand in terms of properties if he went back kind of to to the well and Revisited some old some old territories I'd be curious which which way to go really because the first one that jumps out to me would be well again an actor that for one is dead but two it would be really hard to get him to match that would be if they did a return to PeeWee that's what I was thinking too if the opportunity to jump back into that like 10 years whenever they did the Netflix one I think it would have been which and that one was fine I I I kind of I actually kind of like that one I haven't watched it since it came out but I did enjoy it um because I I did think it kept the nature of the original mostly intact but it was missing that Tim Burton Flair from the original that allowed the the first one to become a perennial classic that's that's what I would have preferred but good old Paul Rubin decided to kick the bucket and well he's paying for his collection of misdeeds right now or alleged misdeeds alleged misdeeds that you can watch another episode of movies we detail that his his art collection yes yes his art collection that's right so for me yeah I I think that's the only other place I would really want to see Tim Burton retread if if not Beetle Juice so it really the question to me is I I think another beetle juu is kind of the The Logical way for him to go he's done everything else I want another Batman I want a third Batman with Michael Keaton Michelle Fifer and then throw in somebody else to I don't care who you cast in that movie mov and the the supporting roles get him back in the drive seat for Batman for in a vacuum in a vacuum I love it I would love to see it looking at it from a realistic point of view I don't see any world that it can happen who who knows maybe Beetlejuice beetlejuice a success primes the studio to say yeah Matt Reeves you can keep your little thing over here fine take your you know go to your little box over there and play in it um we're GNA give Tim Burton one more run at this and see what we can create if there is a world where that can happen I'd be all for it and if he made this kind of dark tale of kind of like The Dark Knight Returns like the series the comic book series or like of an age Bruce Wayne kind of getting back into it for whatever reason I'd be all in for seeing that that world again I I just think there would have to be a lot of politics behind the scenes that go on for that to happen cuz every everybody wants to make a freaking Batman movie like Matt Reeves one was fine I think I think the further away we get from that the more it shows itself to be a total fraud of a film and they keep delaying this Matt Reeves Batman movie because I think they want to pull the plug on it I think you're going to get the the Colin Ferell penguin show on HBO and they're really trying their best to promote that they're doing Alamo Draft House screenings but I got to be real I don't think it's going to get a season 2 no matter what I think James gun setting up his universe and the lack of enthusiasm for that Superman movie that's coming out is going to wind up killing the Andy Mushi Yeti Batman movie that they're playing for the same release period as the Batman part two so I think it's all going to start to collapse and there could be a window of opportunity for Tim Burton to get in there and especially after the success of Beetle Juice Beetlejuice and people saying you know the flash is whatever it is Michael Keaton's the best part I think there's going to be a little momentum a little bit of a push in that direction whether or not that works it might not it might not pro odds are against it but I'm still going to keep my fingers crossed we get that movie it would be I think it's a better direction to go than Edward Scissor Hands too I mean what what else is on the board that we can go back to and relive is oh it's Edwood continues Mars Attacks again yeah see and that's that's the thing for me it's it's that his Library is very devoid of those opportunities and and I think because Burton's 66 years old um I think he's at the time in his career and he he's I mean we kind of outlined everything he's done the guy has done everything over the last 39 years since he directed peewee's big adventure um I think he's almost dare I say he's almost in this Stallone period of his career right like when Stallone hit his 60s and he said I'm burnt out from from doing all these Studio films I lost my way I don't feel like I'm me anymore I want to go back to the well and write a few wrongs in my own Creations he makes rocki baloa which is loved it awesome he goes back to Rambo and depending on what you think of that one the one he did in ' 08 um I mean I I think he really ramped it up and gave it a totally brutal New Edge that gave the series a different life and then last blood has its moments it's a little silly but there was fun to be having great title to end your your first Blood series last Blood yeah and and then Rocky gets another shelf life with the Creed movies which I enjoyed all the time he spent in that as well and so Stallone has been the last almost 20 years really making that like a a Twilight phase of his career and then a couple successes outside of that like Tulsa King for TV that kind of stuff I think Tim Burton is in that same same phase where maybe it's just one more Beetle Juice after that you know for a fact the studio is going to tell him they want it they're going to tell him they want it like crazy they'll beg him to do it but as long as he feels motivated to and to stay in that world and he feels fresh enough to go back and do another within the next 2 to 3 years that's what seems logical to me because for him to syn resources into a new original idea sounds fun but it seems like he was out of gas after Dumbo and this one in Wednesday well he'll go back and do some more Wednesday but then maybe I want to do more Beetle Juice because these projects are what reinvigorated himh so it's tough to say but I'd love to see another only if it's right I don't want if it's 5 years from now no way if it's two or three that's the window that yeah that that's more or less where I'm at with it as well I'm honestly probably excited to see whatever Tim Burton decides to do next because this earned uh re earned his respect uh in my opinion I I I you know I would hope that he doesn't wash it away with another big corporate movie that is completely devoid of his style and energy and uh character and flare but we'll we'll cross that bridge when we get to it I'm sure we'll hear something soon that is going to be in development from him uh and I might watch Wednesday in the meantime I'm a little I I like I said I'm still on a burton kick after Beetlejuice Beetlejuice I'll probably go see this again at some point and in the meantime maybe I'll fill in the gaps you son of a gun you know you you just you just motivated me listen I'm a very prideful guy I don't I don't watch I don't watch TV shows for tween goth chicks but now you got me thinking you know maybe you know hey I'm I'm sure you know what if listen Dumbo was watchable if that was like the first step was okay we got Michael Keaton we got Danny DeVito working with him again what's the next step okay Wednesday he's you know doing something that he's actually interested in I'm sure it's decent enough so I do have Netflix again got rave reviews from like everybody so I it it's just it's just it's a Queen goth girl show that's what it is and well I guess I guess I'll sit down and have an identity crisis and watch it well you can relate to Lis Guzman you know he's kind of the Everyman right that'll be good yeah he's yeah he's um Gomez right yeah you really you know I I I really found that casting decision questionable but if you think about the original Gomez Adams it it tracks you you know what though good for Luis Guzman like he he's he's like the he's like the older version of uh Jesse plens for Hispanic guys like whoa that that's a bit of an insult for Jesse plens but I guess it's a big compliment for Guzman no I mean that that's essentially where Jesse plens is gonna be in 30 years he's going to be like the schlubby Workman type you think he's Gonna Fill back out he's going to just start expanding again yeah come on yeah come on man we all saw what he was for for El Camino gained 50 pounds and did not lose a a drop of it for that movie I would I would really be interested to see what it looks like when someone eats through their oics uh prescription oh you think that's you think that's what he's doing yeah he might come on did you see him in kinds of kindness I did yeah okay there there's no way I'm sorry I just don't believe that he did that with hard work and willpower after what happened to him breaking the succeeding years yes from breaking bad there's no way it's like the nikato avocado guy who just abruptly lost probably 300 lb in a year and a half you didn't do that on your listen I'm not judging either I would do it too if I was clinically obese why the [ __ ] not why be miserable to prove something to yourself I would take oics in a second but come on come on we'll see what the the side take epics Lis Guzman that would but see I think he would lose weight weird and he would look like a gross Jonah Hill melting on the skin type if he did that and he you know there's like episodes of Miami Vice or something I saw him recently in the 80s where he was skinny oh it was a Time Square movie it was called damn what was it uh let me look it up real quick it was kind of an interesting film it was part of the Time Square collection for uh Criterion Channel and it's available probably now damn the name of the movie is escaping me at the moment I'll figure it out in a second though but I saw it was kind of well reviewed on letter box as as well from people whose opinions I trust uh what was it called I don't know Jake have you have you seen anything good recently before we close out the show as I look for this this title on IMDb well yeah I mean I've been on my 60-day uh horror Fest for just the months of September and October sorry to interrupt you oh no go ahead all filler variety was the name of the movie so kind of decent nothing to write home about maybe but if you ever want to see a a skinny Lewis Guzman that's the movie but anyway you were you were talking about you're watching uh horror films for did you say 60 days yeah yeah I decided to start September 1st and do 60 horror films in 60 days all the way up to Halloween so I'm I I'm like one behind so I have to watch like two more tomorrow but I've been doing a lot of that and um let's see I watched a couple good ones uh what have you what have you caught to this point or do you have any uh big ones lined up that you haven't seen yet uh I'm just kind of going on the Fly you know what like um I think there's maybe a couple big ones that I somehow missed but I've already lost track because I just keep going through and like adding to my lists on all my platforms like which one to watch but the first one I watched was at one Arcadian with Nicholas cage and that one I was generous to because the first half is great I hate dystopia I hate apocalyptic movies but this that one's actually the first half is great it's shot beautifully it's all about the character Dynamic and this kind of fatherly relationship between Nicholas Cage and these two pretty much adopted sons that he has that he finds in this cataclysmic event and the first half is great and then the second half it Sidelines cage it makes it more about the the the boys and their relationship and there's these big Chompy aliens that just it's just the same retread of a quiet place aliens and just these brainless things that don't hunt that don't seem to have any habit other than to be reactionary and kill and and that kind of sunk it for me and that got a lot of that got a lot of good reviews that one and um I was just like well I really enjoyed the first half so I'll be generous give it a three and uh that that is one that I've heard reviews of and it started to change my opinion of considering seeing it because I watched the trailer and I was like this is not my cup of tea I'm not going to watch this it kind of reminds me of a quiet place I'm not going to sit down for this film but then red letter Media or somebody had put out a pretty positive review of that movie maybe they did a double feature with long legs and I was like all right you know maybe I'll give this one a shot uh but I I have yet to do that um what what have you have you caught anything else and also is this going to be for a review series or anything or you just doing this for your own personal interest kind of my own personal interest but uh I'm open to maybe putting it into kind of a retrospect of sorts what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to watch like an old classic that I haven't seen and then a new film that I haven't seen so I'm trying to re I'm trying to get all like fresh experiences because I I can watch the same you know U 30 or 40 horror movies I watch every October for Halloween and and I will but they won't classify into that list so so I want to stumble upon uh some new things I did catch this viral horror film that's been going on online from these guys called uh like that's a bad idea is their YouTube channel they they typically do like sketch comedy and they did this found footage style horror movie called milk and cereal and oh yeah you mentioned this to me okay yeah yeah got it got a lot of good hype online and I saw some blurs that oh this viral B footage horror movies like super scary and they made it for $800 and with all that in mind it's pretty decent I think I think those guys they're they're on the younger side but I think they're on to something creatively and they really do swing big and I and I like what they do it just um I I think just the setup for me on that one was obscene meanly tired because any of these kinds of um movies that essentially come online and and these guys probably make money off their videos they have a good following um they all tend to have the same setups or very lazy setups like this one is essentially the setup is oo online pranksters on the internet it goes wrong but there's a Twist and the twist is fun but just the setup that I don't know and how little of time I've seen this this online personality something goes wrong setup I hate it I hate that setup it's it's so lazy and of the times uncreative uninteresting it really is the easiest Gateway for any found footage or if you're trying to make a commentary on the modern era of it's just very played out I'll tell you one that was kind of surprisingly good it I wasn't on the movie side for maybe the first 40 minutes because they decid it started to remind me of I don't know if you saw the film anatomy of a fall I I was one of the dissenting voices of this movie where I was not impressed with it whatsoever but people loved it it got rave reviews and I started watching this movie that was recommended to me by I think it was DJ Fitzgerald who's a fan of ours he mentioned it in the Discord he said check out this movie Red rooms oh yeah I saw him mentioned that yeah so I downloaded red rooms and the first 10 minutes started to give me anatomy of a fall Vibes where we're getting in real time the defense of a trial the offense of a trial and it's just like all right we're in for a slow Quebec film what did I get myself into and it's this plotting it doesn't really reveal itself to be a thriller upfront but then maybe about three4 of the way into the movie it snaps into place and it shows itself for what it really is and I loved that I loved what I got right towards the end and how it made sense of everything that preceded in in a way that was so true to women and reality and how horrible but and maybe good in some ways but dark and how dark women can be um I really enjoyed that I would recommend red rooms if you have a tolerance for Canadians who speak French and yeah another one I watched is um I was a fan of the first film then the next two were just kind of mad at me and then they made another one last year is a another found footage one was a Hell House LLC origin yeah so I know the guy that produced those movies his name is Joe bandelli super cool guy did was he the one who came on your show a couple years back he did yeah I got got him and I got Jordan Downey as well um but yeah me and Joe met through my my old show and he's a super cool guy and he hinted at making this film back then this is like 2020 and U so these are just I think he knows what they are too they're very straight up bound footage movies something in the corner the character goes to see it and stuff happens the first one is actually really good and there's some really great scares in it the second has its most and the third is where it gets a little tired but this new one they did An Origin story film of it and uh I mean these are just fun house movies but if you're going to watch a fun house movie in like found footage style it's fun there's some good spooky moments in it and uh they just lean into what works for them they've got a couple gags that have really just resonated with people that work in the first movie a couple times in the second and they they lean into their strengths with this one I think they learned from what didn't work and maybe the second and third film and then they make this origin film just the most fun they can and to me I can forgive following the conventions because sometimes tropes and cliches are fun and this is a movie that knows what it's doing and if you just submit to a couple of those cliches and tropes it's it's a great little fun house movie with again the gags that they know that they're good at they lean into and it works and no I I had a lot of fun with it all right I still got to watch the one you mentioned um Frogman that's no no no no no no that would definitely not be one I would recommend in in listen that's exactly why I have to watch it you might you might get something out of it but I certainly didn't get a goddamn thing out of that movie and I'm surprised good for them for getting like a cool Boutique Blu-ray release that you're going to watch that movie you're be like how did this movie get the Blu-ray release that it wound up getting this is insane why did it get this cool package you know it's uh it's really remarkable how successful that movie wound up being with horror fans because it's well reviewed on IMDb or something I don't know but Frogman is not the ticket uh all right anyway this is almost two in the morning here on my end so I got to get some rest but Jake thank you so much for coming back on and and talking about Beetlejuice Beetlejuice this is the second solo show without Hans we've done here at the movies podcast but uh I think it's a different vibe and good time and I don't know if he would have the same uh patience for for a Beetle Juice Beetle Juice or a trap certainly that you or I have so uh I think it's good to maybe reflect away from a bit of cynicism you know for a change I like to think I'm a cynic a lot of the time a lot of my friends don't like how critical that like my friends aren't kind of in the same circles that you that you and I are um they they think I'm way too critical but I I think I'm really generous I think you're the most generous critic of anybody I probably know so that's wild if they think you're critical I I know I think I think I'm very critical if you look at it from just kind of your everyday Joe stance but I think from the sphere that we're in I I think I'm remarkably generous why you have defended Doug Walker's old work before that's how generous you are uh I plead the fifth on that I I there are episodes that people can go back to and you are the sole Defender saying well once upon a time maybe he and listen I'm subscribed to Doug Walker I got brainwashed but I know he's terrible he's always been terrible but you said well maybe there's some good stuff no no no well listen there's caveats to this okay never never have I did kickassia or anything like that not to mention you're the one that sat through all those I watch five minutes of the first one and I could smell it so I turned it off we yeah well we had to watch one for civic TV I don't know maybe it was kickass you maybe it was it was one of them we had to watch one of them for civic that's all I know that's all I know and it was a tough time so when when Nostalgia Critic was at its peak I was watching and I had a lot of fun with those old episodes that that's where I was it's Peak yeah yeah it's if yeah yeah if a peak is is a bunny slope or an antill yes ant hills are funny all right what what would you like to plug I already gave your Twitter your ex account a a shout out here in the middle of the show which is exactly when you should do it but what would you like people to go and check out yeah I go to my letter box I'm trying to be way more active on there I'm trying to make it more fun have more fun with it so it's just a cinematology on letter boxed and then got a short film that's getting some wheels on it in the next few days we're going to be kicking into that and hopefully can announce more details on that soon because that that's something that I have to get done fairly quickly and I have a really fun idea so all right yeah that'll be next excellent excellent all right well that has been movies for this week thank you for listening