Has this been a defining week in the US presidential election? | Inside Story

Donald Trump says no to another debate with KLA Harris in the US presidential election he claims he won Tuesday's head-to-head but fundraisers tell a different story with a deluge of donations for Harris the next day so what's next for both campaigns this is Inside Story [Music] hello there I'm James Bay Donald Trump says he won't do a second TV debate with KLA Harris in the US presidential election campaign claiming he doesn't need to as he won last Tuesday's head-to-head decisively that's not a view shared by many independent political commentators and not by campaign donors either with a windfall going Harris's way in the 24 hours after her Tevis Jewel with Trump presidential elections are a lot more complicated of course than TV debates but they're especially important this year with the last one burying Joe Biden's campaign and the first meeting of any kind between Trump and Harris was seen by both camps as a critical moment Trump's team might rather forget some of the takeaway lines such as immigrants dining on cats and dogs snatched from their American owners a claim widely ridiculed since then Harris has poked fun at Trump's performance at her rallies while his side say she's avoiding substance and detail is this a defining week in the election and will there be a second debate we'll answer those questions and more with our panel of guests in a moment but first this report from Laura Khan us campaign season is in full swing presidential candidate Kamala Harris is in North Carolina and Donald Trump in Arizona Harris has increased a slight lead in opinion polls following a debate on Tuesday that many say she came out as a winner and she wants another Showdown I believe we owe it to the voters to have another [Applause] debate because this election and what is at stake could not be more important but Trump ruled this out and said he was the Victor we've done two debates and because the was successful there will be no third debate we find at the national level uh that Harris is in the lead uh relative to Trump um but on those key fundamentals issues like the economy and inflation uh Trump ultimately um has the leads in their televised presidential debate on Tuesday night Trump had been expected to focus on the Democrats track record on immigration a leading policy in the Trump campaign but when question questioned seemed to fall into a trap set by Harris on that issue people start leaving his rallies early out of exhaustion and boredom why did you try to kill that bill and successfully so that would have put thousands of additional agents and officers On the Border first let me respond us to the rallies people don't leave my rallies we have the biggest rallies some analysts said it was traps like this that put Trump on the back foot coming across as defensive annoyed and often unstable when Trump did mention immigration he gave an unsubstantiated claim of Haitian immigrants in Springfield Ohio consuming pets eating the dogs the people that came in they're eating the cats towards the end of the debate Trump challenged Harris on inflation under President Joe Biden Harris is often criticized for not clearly defining her policies and she didn't this time but she did use the moment to land a punch clearly I am not Joe Biden and I am certainly not Donald Trump and what I do offer is a new generation of leadership for our country and she reflected this slogan at a rally in North Carolina I said it then I say it now it's time to turn the page and although Trump's cats and dogs statement gained much ridicule he continued down that path residents are reporting that the migrants are walking off with the town's geese they taking the geese Trump and Harris are almost neck and neck in the race to the White House and with Trump turning down another face to face they have until November T entice undecided voters whether it be through policy hype or enthusiasm Laura Khan for Inside Story Al jazer well with just over 50 days until election day on November the 5th let's discuss all of this with our three guests today who are in the US first in Washington DC we have John Malcolm vice president of the institute for constitutional government at the Heritage Foundation he's also a former US Federal prosecutor in Brunswick Andrew rudelich he's Thomas bracket Reed professor of government at bodon college and in Washington DC Joy Cheney political strategist and domestic legal policy expert thank you all three of you for joining us today on inside story as we look at where the US election campaign stands well we know what Donald Trump says he says he won that debate on Tuesday Joy did he I think the American people have spoken he definitely did not win and if he had won he'd be having a third debate so pick it up for me uh um Andrew um even Trump's allies are saying that he he had a bad uh night how bad was it well I don't think there are many people outside the very inner Trump Circle who are uh saying that he won what they're telling him I'm not sure uh but it certainly was not a night where he took advantage of his opportunities to press home his main points on policies like immigration or the cost of living uh he allowed uh the vice president to Define him in some ways and I think that's going to be you know uh rankling him somewhat and certainly rankling his allies uh that he did not uh allow himself to stay on Focus that he was distracted by attacks as we saw on rally size uh goated about issues regarding his various criminal and civil trials uh January 6th you know a lot of the things that were brought up he didn't really want to answer directly or a double down on positions he's taken that are quite unpopular so I don't think it helped him very much at all in the wider range of things that said things are very close John you are a republican let's get your view on this and and where it stands because I mean if you just look a few months back it was I think 61 days ago that there was that Trump assassination attempt which he survived which everyone thought may have made him unassailable uh but then of course the debate with uh President Biden Biden pulling out a good convention for comma Harris and now this debate it's a complete transformation is it not yeah I think that's right uh obviously a lot of a series of unexpected uh events camela Harris did not have to run the gauntlet of primary season uh with debates against her competitors uh she's only done one television interview it was uh with a journalist it was with a friendly journalist and she had Tim Waltz there to help I will I'm not an Insider to the Trump Administration I don't work for the campaign uh this may be the one thing that joy and I agree on during the course of this meeting which is I do think that camela Harris got the better of Donald Trump during that uh debate he you know he lets things get under his skin and he gets distracted and goes off on tangents and she did a very effective job of poking him and getting under his skin uh she of course didn't answer a lot of the questions from the moderators first moderator asked the question are you better off in terms of your you know your economic situation than you were four years ago she didn't answer that do you believe in any restrictions uh on abortion she didn't answer that the moderators let her get away with it and so did Donald Trump because he got distracted by these uh various attacks on him that he felt the need to respond to I think I think somewhat to his detriment how much of an effect that's going to on the election is very hard to say because the reality is is that all of these polls are within the margin of error and the entire election is going to come down to what happens at about six or seven states but Andrew if he says no to another debate and she wants another debate doesn't it in the minds of American people make him look like the coward well to the degree people are paying attention to that uh level of detail um certainly I you know I wouldn't be shocked in fact if he did decide ultimately that he would accept another debate uh grudgingly of course because he's not going to concede that he didn't win the first debate but ultimately you know the Harris Camp wants another debate Trump Camp maybe needs another debate I wouldn't be shocked if we saw something come around remember that the former president said he wasn't going to do this debate uh a while ago um and you know while he is uh Missing uh having uh President Biden as his opponent he is now I think a little should be at least a little better prepared for another go round with vice president Harris so um you know I wouldn't say it's necessarily the last word on the subject John would you agree with that depending on what the polls say when we get better polling on on on the outcome of this de debate if he thinks that he is well behind in the polls that he could lose the election he's got a great deal at stake hasn't he here because it's not just winning and being president that he's got those court cases against him potentially his freed as stake here do you think he might he might change his mind and have a debate after all I doubt it uh there's a vice president vice presidential debate that's scheduled for October the 1st he is spending a lot of time as is camela Harris uh in those swing States uh he's doing large in addition to his rallies he's doing telep forums uh he's doing interviews with uh with journalists that's something that camela Harris isn't doing and I suppose you could accuse her of being a coward I'm I'm not going to do that I think that both these campaigns have their strategists that are laying out a ground game uh you know voting is already started in a couple of states in terms of absentee and mail and balloting and they're going to do what they think it's going to you know it's going to take to get their candidate across the Finish Line joy we know what Harris's campaign is saying that she wants another debate but in some ways does she really need another debate she won she slayed the dragon um that will stay The Narrative if there isn't second debate she doesn't need a second debate she has already you know made the case and made it clear who Donald Trump is and more importantly who she is now she can go direct to Consumer as she's always been doing she can do rallies she can be online and I know that there's a lot of critique that she hasn't done mainstream media but most Americans aren't looking at CNN or MSNBC or any of these major news outlets they're getting their news in other ways New Media ways and she is all over those Outlets so she will do the traditional media she's been vice president for four years she's done lots of interviews so people know that that that she can do those interviews she's already done one it's totally normal to have uh the vice president the presidential candidate do an interview together if that makes sense she'll do others but more importantly she's going direct to the voters because ultimately that's what matters Democrats have learned that you can be all over Network news but at the end of the day you have to reach consumers where they are and they're not always on those big Network news stations they're actually you know paying attention to social media paying attention to the videos that she puts out engaging with a non-traditional media engaging on the campaign Trail we are not doing this they are not doing this in a traditional way they're doing it in a way that they know will be right for this time and will win we are not going back as she says and that means you have to tr take different tactics so we're real thrilled about that and one thing that John said I want to counter they said that she didn't answer he said that she didn't answer questions about the economy she absolutely answered questions about the economy and on abortion she said she supported restoring row which had some restrictions um on on abortion so I I don't want to you know suggest that that she didn't answer those questions she absolutely did and if Donald Trump had been smart he would have doubled down on the economy he would have doubled down on immigration instead of making up other other you know going off on a tangent and John I think you admitted that like the fact of the matter is she answered the questions if she had a third debate she would have an opportunity to even do more of it but she doesn't have to do it she can let me bring in Andrew on this okay quick quick quickly John go ahead yeah so with all due respect uh through all these alternative social media platforms that Joy talked about you don't get asked tough questions by journalists uh and have to answer them in front of a national audience and she didn't answer a question she said you would restore Row versus Wade that is not the same thing as answering a question of do you support any limitations on abortion throughout the N9 months Cil pregnancy she did not answer that question did better off four years ago than you are now in terms of your pocketbook because the is clearly no John we are absolutely better off than we were four years ago at the end at at at in the middle of a pandemic we're absolutely better off with that she made clear about that and then with respect to abortion let's be clear there's no place the full nine months you can't have an abortion all nine months in America anywhere preot post any of that these are lies these are not true and I know the Heritage Foundation is smart enough to know that oh that you are absolutely wrong that there are many states that say that the life and health of a mother enables them to have including up to right up to birth partial birth abortion and camela Harris SP prioritize the he of the mother absolutely Harris and and I believe Donald Trump at this point are believe in U exceptions for the health of the mother as well as rape yeah absolutely care about mom okay um if I could I could bring Andrew back in um moment ago Joy was talking about uh the importance of social media and how that is how that is now the Battleground but I think it's worth stating the debate uh I looked up the audience for the debate and it was According to neelen which is the rating company that decides who's watching live events on television 67.1 million Americans watch the debate that's much bigger than the 51 million who watched Joe Biden disastrous debate with Trump so the live event is still important isn't it Andrew it is I think it is uh certainly it's important too not only in the live audience but in the downstream effects right the debate gets sort of translated into uh mainstream media headlines and stories people may not read those stories in full but they see the the headlines they get the gist uh they get the vibe um social media is important obviously in encouraging the most enthusiastic uh voters uh but not everybody is extremely online in fact you know most Americans though hard to imagine from the perspective of political scientists or uh those who are deeply involved in the political process right don't pay that much attention to politics um you know if you looked back into the uh early part of 2024 some large percentage of Americans really didn't believe that Joe Biden and Donald Trump were actually the candidates again uh and you know of course in Joe Biden's case they turned out to be uh rather preent in that regard so no I do think the mainstream media is important in helping to set the agenda uh I do think the tone they take for example if uh um you know if there's sort of a widespread belief that the vice president is ducking questions uh that will play its way out again sort of Downstream and become part of how she's defined I think that's something she could avoid uh and probably ought to um so I do think the debates are important they set this agenda they uh bear on the broader impression of the candidates moving forward um again does she need another debate no but I do think she needs to continue to build on this momentum and probably to you know develop maybe not develop but to express this more specific policy agenda um in a way that is pretty uh transparent and you know in a way that helps her distinguish herself from the Biden Administration while at the same time you know obviously trying to take credit for its achievements this is always a difficult uh Road for sitting vice presidents and why we haven't elected that many sitting vice presidents right after their term because you're trying to to walk that breith in line uh the very short campaign is probably a help to the Vice President in this regard um John Joy earlier on said that Trump missed a missed an obvious goal on the economy the other issue was immigration and that's where Harris when she was asked about immigration decided to swing the the the the the conversation to his rallies that clearly triggered him and then you got something which has had all sorts of memes on social media you got these comments that you heard in our report at the beginning of the program they're eating the dogs they're eating the cats I mean this was an awful own goal wasn't it John look I would not have have said that and he's been mocked for it and I have no idea whether what he said is true or not true uh and to me that's utterly irrelevant what is completely uh relevant is the fact that we have a poest border there have been 10 million at least probably well more than 10 million uh illegal immigrants who have come in under the Biden Harris Administration that does not count the nearly two million or more uh Goda aways people who sort of snuck in are unaccounted for f you you're making that point but president Trump didn't make that point at all clearly and he had plenty of time to do so yes I I agree with that I think that he he had opportunities to pound that he did at other points in the debate he got a little better towards the end but as I said before I think he got distracted uh and he didn't make these points as clearly as he got distracted because she very successfully baited him didn't she John let me give you another example um you know she said that um military leaders uh said the former president was a disgrace world leaders are laughing at him and then he quoted Victor Orban uh the prime minister of Hungary now number one he's very controversial because people say he's authoritarian and very close to Putin but number two given the order audience in swing States in Middle America how many people in the audience that Donald Trump was trying to trying to swing how many of of them have ever heard of Victor Orban look if you're asking me did camela Harris successfully go Donald Trump and did it take him down rabbit holes that I think he would have been better off avoiding I think the answer to that is yes I know the Trump campaign doesn't say that but I agree with that but there are points that he could make in his favor he did a little bit better towards the end but he did a very effective job of goating him and I agree that he took the bait all too often Joy um when President Biden Joy was in the in the race a lot of the issues were about age is this man too old to be commander-in-chief but Trump now is the oldest presidential candidate in US history he now has that role do you think uh there should be more attack of his age and whether Trump is a sharp now in these debates as he was uh four years ago or eight years ago so he's definitely not as sharp I'm not an aist I don't love having that conversation but it's clear that he's not at the top of his game what kamla Harris did was more than just go him she revealed him to be someone who's willing to use race right and xenophobia um the what what happened in Springfield let's be you have an internet ational audience we have people from all over the world who live in the United States so if you are a Haitian immigrant those people are afraid in Springfield Illinois there was a bomb threat in Springfield related to Donald Trump and JD Vance's in erroneous uh claims the city manager of Springfield made clear that there have been no reports so John do us a favor please say directly what he is saying is a lie there are not animals missing from the streets of this city and we're and and that is not something that is happening within this immigrant Community those are very harmful things and people children are G to be harmed by those kinds of comments so she Reed him to be the kind of person who would do that John quickly she revealed him to be let johnly and well I don't I don't live in Springfield Illinois I have no idea however camela Harris in terms of her record and explaining why she has flip-flopped on various positions I characterize that as a lie and in fact I would rely on someone who knows her quite well Bernie Sanders who said on Meet the Press this last week you know why she are you concerned about her flip-flopping on all of these position goes no I know she's a progressive she's just saying what she needs to say in order to get elected there is a lot of dishonesty going on within the Harris campaign Bernie Sanders is a Harris supporter um but let me just say you know moving on as well as uh dick sheney so everyone from dick sheney to Bernie Sanders is for kamla Harris Let's be clear about that and don't forget Taylor's but letse sorry Joe we've got to move on because we we're running out of time um Andrew Ju Just give us the the impact of of of a debate like this in the scheme of things because we don't we've only got two months now less than two months uh to election day um there was no big bounce in the polling after the convention and yet the media um said that that was almost Flawless for Harris so will this make a difference and if it doesn't make a difference what is there out there are we waiting for an October surprise what is there out there that might change things well I think a lot of the results you know of the 2024 election have been visible to us for a long time uh you know America is let's face it a polarized Place people's belief about the political parties and candidates are baked in uh normally debates don't change things right it's it's rare that they do obviously the debate between former president Trump and President Biden you know made a big impact but that is a rarity uh this I think was an important debate in that it allowed the vice president to present herself as presidential and as has been noted to try to to go president Trump successfully into uh veering off topic uh that's said I don't I think what we've seen over the really the last year uh is a real stability in the former president support right and indeed a really remarkable stability in his support going back to almost 2015 uh whereas President Biden's support had fallen off quite a lot even within the Democratic party that's now bounced back with a new candidate and so we are seeing a battle really over whether this will be a replay of 2020 where the Democratic party managed to piece together a coalition uh that of course won narrowly in a lot of key swing States or whether it will be 2016 uh where you know Mr Trump loses the national popular vote but is able to effectively run the table uh you know draw an inside straight sorry for the poker reference uh in terms of winning those swing States narrowly enough to get a victory in Electoral College we know that that's possible and what the Trump John if I I I can bring you in De Trump often things not going his way he starts sacking people um his campaign team though are but by most observers seemed pretty competent and sane he's now taking advice particularly from Laura Luma a farri political activist who was on his plane she tweeted um recently about the White House smelling like Curry if Harris was elected infantile and clearly racist are you worried about the way Trump's campaign is being directed and does it need a real reset now oh I don't think it's going to be reset is Susie wilds and Chris laa uh you know is there Kelly and con he might sack them you know you know what he does when he's losing he might sack them well he hasn't and he's he's stuck with them so far in this campaign and I expect they'll be there at the end of The Campaign I don't know anything about Laura ler there were always Outsiders uh some who were quite extreme on the right and on the left who were trying to get to the candidates and sometimes they succeed but at the moment his campaign team has been quite steady and I assume he's going to stick with them for the rest of the campaign and he has a lot of bread and butter issues to run on the border crime energy Independence the economy these are solid issues uh for him that may take him over the Finish Line solid issues that could take him over the Finish Line Joy quickly from you what is your biggest fear as a Harris supporter you know well first of all let me just be C the thing is that that you just reference there are racist and so we can't normalize that and I think Donald Trump should fire those people but he seems to be leading in leaning into it look my greatest fear as a Harris supporter is Donald Trump always pulls worse than he actually does in the polls because so many people are embarrassed to say that they're voting for him now that ought to be a shame I would be embarrassed about that but they are embarrassed to say they're voting for him and so sometimes they don't reflect that vote in the polls so we're we're always trying to make sure that Harris is a running from behind right we have to be way ahead in the polls in order to claim any kind of real you know headwind and and success we're going in the right direction but that's our fear our fear is that you know we won't ever be able to really know where we are um and we have to be way out in front we also want to make sure that we're focusing state by state thank you very much thank you to all of our guests who joined us today John Malcolm Andrew L rudelich and joy Cheney you'll find extensive coverage of the campaign all the way to voting day on November the 5th on Al jazer with analysis 2 at aljazeera.com if you have thoughts or comments always post them at our Facebook page that's facebook.com/ AJ Inside Story or use x where we are at AJ inside story I'll see you back here very soon from me James Bay and the team here please stay safe bye-bye for now [Music] make sure to subscribe to our channel to get the latest news from Al jazer