Osaka vs Tokyo Team | Kingdom Hearts Combat Debate - The Datascape

what is going on ladies and gentlemen of YouTube my name is PR and welcome to another episode of the date escape the newest kingom Hearts podcast on the block with our co-host Noir Lil bomber and me proy xud uh we're talking about a lot today uh today we're talking about old school versus new school Kingdom Hearts or as some people like to say Osaka versus Tokyo team if you're more on the combat end but yeah A lot's going on since the last time we recorded a podcast episode how are you doing Noir I'm doing good I'm doing good uh happy to be recording this episode uh so I definitely think the first thing we should talk about when it comes to Old School versus new school is at what point are we discussing like old school versus new school as far as like the games go you know what what year separates the old school fans from the new school fans well in terms of fans they kind of they kind of mesh together you know but I feel like when it comes to Old School Kingdom Hearts the separation for sure is anything after Kingdom Hearts 2 is definitely like new school Kingdom Hearts now that's a pretty broad spectrum of games because for a lot of people that's like Peak Kingdom Hearts that's like Kingdom Hearts 1 Kingdom memories K2 some people like to lump in days in there because da is kind of a chain of memory cage2 story uh but yeah those games are definitely like considered the old school Kingdom Hearts and time keeps going on so nowadays like old school is Birth by Sleep and dream up distance but to a lot of Kingdom Hearts fans who grew up with the series been playing since one who played Kingdom Hearts on the PS2 I guess is a good distinction uh for a lot of people the New Gen of Kingdom Hearts is definitely like Birth by Sleep and after or dream dropping after kh3 definitely is like newer for a lot of people but is definitely new school um yeah cuz like I'd say remix era might be like a big distinction for Kingdom Hearts fans cuz during the remix era was when a lot of people I feel like came back into Kingdom Hearts and a lot of new fans came into Kingdom Hearts cuz they're releasing collections of these games for PS3 especially the PS4 version so maybe around like mid 2010 so like that time period between 2014 to 2017 when the E collection are releasing might be where we might draw that line I guess I personally think that um at the earliest new school would start at 2013 with the remixes a and at the latest Kingdom Hearts 3 because I would say all the all the games like to Dream Drop Distance the it wasn't Kingdom Hearts wasn't Main main streamed right like you saw commercials you obviously had fans making videos and everything so there was obviously uh that going on for Kingdom Hearts as a whole but it wasn't mainstreamed uh the way it was when the remixes came because when the remixes came people could enjoy the entire series with one console and that's really something that like people don't talk about anymore but uh you needed multiple consoles to to play all the Kingdom Hearts games you know even starting from when Kingdom Hearts 2 you needed a PS2 and a Game Boy Advance um and then yeah they re-release uh chain of Memories on the PS2 so you were good with just a PS2 until 358 came out they needed a DS and then Birth by Sleep you needed a PSP and then Dream Drop into 3ds right so it was it was this thing of like not that many people were into Kingdom Hearts because of how like separated the the types of games were and so when the remixes came along it became mainstreamed and a lot of people obviously could there was way more potential for streaming and recording the games and having these online discussions and everything about the game and so I think that's when it really came about uh especially when you get to um it being re-released on PlayStation 4 with along with 2.8 being out and then that's when the marketing for Kingdom Hearts just was heavier than we had ever seen before like there are people seeing Kingdom Hearts 3 trailers and talking about getting the game who've never even played a Kingdom Hearts game before and frankly back then that was unheard of everything you say is completely true but there's one thing I'd like to uh argue against a little bit and that's the part where you talked about kingom wasn't as mainstream back then I think defining what was mainstream back then is a little difficult right because obviously you could go by just numbers and if we're going by just numbers then Kingdom Hearts was up there Kingdom Hearts is in the top 10 bestselling PS2 games and I think Kingdom Hearts 2 isn't far behind at number like 13 or something um Kingdom Hearts has two games that are like in the top like sales for PS2 and that's like one of the highest selling consoles of all time right there so was that like not mainstream cuz that's pretty good for a niche little Disney game right uh but then you look at the non-number ti you look at Birth by Sleep we look at dream drive we look at days and these games still sold millions of copies and compared to other like games and those sorts of genres Kingdom Hearts was doing super well and like competing if not exceeding those other games so I would argue that while Kingdom Hearts might not be mainstream in the sense that it's selling tens of millons ions it's on the scale of GTA Call of Duty or like obviously your sports games but I would say like it's it might be like right below there like it's at the if there is something gatekeeping Kingdom Hearts from being mainstream it's like right there it's right at the line it's like it it is the distinction between mainstream and maybe like Niche like I feel like it's just it's like in in the it's in the middle for sure um but another thing I wanted to touch up on to give some context to our viewers a little bit why are we discussing old school versus new school Kingdom Hearts this wasn't just on a whim to a degree maybe it was but it this wasn't fully just on the whim uh we've had some debates on live stream and on social media and I've seen some fans like often talking about like old school Kingdom Hearts and not necessarily using that sort of verbiage but just talking about the old days of Kingdom Hearts when Kingdom Hearts 2 first came out on the PS2 uh when they first played a game like Birth by Sleep or first played game like Kingdom Hearts 1 and just that Nostalgia that PS2 Nostalgia that a lot of us still like have fun memories of compared to nowadays with Kingdom Hearts and it's a little bit more modernized with Kingdom Hearts 3 and the remixes and so on um Missing Link and there's a lot of ways you could distinguish what is old school Kingdom Hearts and what's new school Kingdom Hearts but I think Noir made a good point and I would say anything after remix era might be where just a lot of new fans came from for the series A a lot of the newer fans of the series who weren't around before the remixes before the PS3 who didn't play the games on PS2 I say that's a good way to disting distinguish them but at the same time there's also a other way you could distinguish them and that is by well the change in Direction and that is when Kingdom Hearts change teams from the from the Tokyo team the Tokyo team who worked on games like Kingdom Hearts 1 Kingdom Hearts chain of Memories Kingdom Hearts 2 um and then the Osaka team or slash Han who they were kind of like trading Kingdom Hearts games a little bit who worked on games like days uh games like recoded which was hand and then games like Birth by Sleep Dream Drop Distance for the Osaka team and of course Kingdom Hearts 3 and for a lot of people that's what they called the floaty era of Kingdom Hearts where the combat got a got a little floatier wasn't as Snappy as it was with Kingdom Hearts 2 and even to a lot of people maybe the story and the way they orchestrated events and moments wasn't the same but still a lot of people love those games back then we didn't know that the Osaka team was necessarily the team working on Birth by Sleep in these other games it was just game to game back then so I would say there's a little bit of controversy in just the where we decide to distinguish that because you could do remix era or you could do oak versus Tokyo team we're going to be talking a little bit about both today but a question that I wanted to ask Noir is do you think Kingdom Hearts and I don't mean in a story way or in a gameplay sort of way just in a general sense whatever you interpret out of it was Kingdom Heart simpler back then back when it was on the PS2 back before all this I guess that we have now uh well when looking at the story and lorewise absolutely um cuz you could more or less explain the entire PL as we knew it for uh from Kingdom Hearts one through two like very easily um and I think I I think even if you include 358 yeah it's still like somewhat simple uh I think once you hit Dream Drop Distance that's when the story stops being so simple um but as far as game play goes uh I don't think I don't think there was ever a point where Kingdom Hearts wasn't simp or no no there wasn't a point where Kingdom Hearts was simple as far as gameplay goes I think that's an action game K Hearts has always had a lot of depth in it but I think thatth there always a lot of dep like I like Kingdom Hearts 1 is easily like the simplest game in the series as far as as far as like gameplay goes but even then there's a lot of mechanics in it that like the more you understand about it um like the more like the the more different the gameplay becomes uh I would say it's once you hit chain of Memories where like because obviously the first game that's like the that's the base you know that that's like this is the formula we're going to try we're going to see if it works and then obviously the the formula worked so they're like okay let's adapt this for for in one situation or another for different game plays for different games you know chain of Memories had a similar gameplay style to uh Kingdom Hearts 1 but obviously with the whole card mechanic and being more about uh strategizing uh and processing numbers in during a battle than just simply reacting to someone's attack and dodging at the right time um and then kingom Hearts 2 had the dry forms and the different uh and different mechanics involving that uh and the limits uh 358 had its whole panel system as well as the um limits that were attached uh during each Mission or I should say like your your limit bar that was attached to your health uh Birth by SE had the command Styles and D links I think we could definitely say that Kingdom Hearts combat was not like lacking depth I'd say I don't think there's ever been a point in the series where regardless of what their preference is when it comes to combat I don't think there's ever been a point whether you're a fan of Tokyo team or Osaka team I don't even like distinguishing them nowadays because Tokyo team's not working on Kingdom Hearts at the moment like I I think some developers come in from the Tokyo team and like help out Osaka team with the Osaka team is the main team that works on Kingdom Hearts and is likely going to remain the main team going forward for games like Kingdom Hearts 4 and so on at least but Kingdom Hearts has always had a lot of depth with this combat system and some people don't realize this because a lot of people they play Kingdom Hearts on whatever difficulty gets them through the story the fastest rather be proud to be standard rather to be beginner and they base the combat based off of that which is understandable you know like you don't have to have this super hard level one your perfectly block timing your blocks and your pares and using your eye frames reflecting at the right times like you don't have to play Kingdom Hearts like that don't and square knows that square knows that they know that Their audience some of them just want to experience the story so why play Elden ring when I'm here to find out lore about who roxus is or who like who yora is right like I want to I want answers to my Mysteries not like fighting for my life just to get the cut scene and they they I feel like do a good job at catering to both like I'm glad Kingdom Hearts has this level one mode and a and his critical mode because as much as I'm a big fan of the story I love me some hard gam plan I think Kingdom Hearts with its combat system with its depth has some of the most satisfying gameplay to master and anyone who's listening to this who hasn't played the games fully maybe you're a fan who only experiences the story or that's their main way of enjoying Kingdom Hearts dive dive deep into the gameplay give it a try you won't have to like it you won't have to you won't have to love it but just give it a try be open-minded to it don't just fight the boss to try and win or be perfect try and just learn the boss fight and you really do while doing that un understand just how indepth these systems and these bosses and these com just combat mechanics are uh but that's my that's my little tangent about Kingdom Hearts comat I love Kingdom Hearts combat man not not only my favorite series for story but characters combat's great too I say like when it comes to the Kingdom Hearts gameplay um and I think it's always been like this since chain of Memories it's if you're familiar with the combat of the first game you already have a working understanding of any other game and it's just a matter of switching and adapting to which specific game you're playing yeah I agree so I would ask you actually uh I if if you're like a person who is who like you know cares about this sort of thing do do you like Osaka team or Tokyo team or like what what is your preference with combat or how would you just what your interpretation of both of them and like the divisiveness in the fan base that there used to be between both of the teams uh wow uh so um when it comes to uh Osaka I have definitely had a variety of feelings about them throughout the years uh I'd say with the game that I praise them the most for easily Kingdom Hearts 3 um oh yeah the game that I criticize them the most for uh dream do distance um because when it comes to Kingdom Hearts one and two those are the two games made by the Tokyo team yeah their their game play was definitely more it was less flashy and more heavy if that makes any sense for Tokyo te yes so obviously Tokyo team was pretty flashy with cage the Tokyo team was definitely flashy I'm not saying that they're the same team that made Final Fantasy 15 okay they know flashy um but they how do I put this in my opinion when it came to the gameplay between uh like say Kingdom Hearts 2 versus Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep or Kingdom Hearts 3 now don't I just want to preface this kingom Hearts 3 is my favorite in the series I love Kingdom Hearts 3 not bashing it um but the game playay in two while it had its flashiness cared more about uh consistent uh heavy gameplay and not so much Showmanship or spectacle in a sense yeah I I i' I'd say so I would say they still cared about spectacle and they were flashy at the time but in comparison to Kingdom Hearts 3 like I I would I would definitely say like kage3 does the spectacle thing a lot more but if you're comparing it to other Osaka games I don't think Birth by Sleep or dream droper like super duper flashy I mean they definitely have their like things but to a lot of people Kingdom Hearts just has a flashy combat system period like Kingdom Hearts is has a very heavy emphasis on Magic and effects and like cool situations and paries and sound design in their boss fights and that's been a thing throughout the entire series and Tokyo team I think you could say had like a good blend of like all of it but one thing I would say about Tokyo team versus Osaka team is that Osaka did pretty good for their first console game like um maybe it's not on par with Kingdom Hearts 2 for sure for a lot of people uh I love Kingdom Hearts 3 I personally think it is but maybe for some people it's not on par with Kingdom Hearts 2 but I would definitely say it's better than Kingdom Hearts 1 is combat or like definitely a decent bit above that maybe competes remind definitely competes with cage too but Osaka did a good job for their first console game because beforehand they their only console experience was with the remixes pretty much and before the remixes we were basically remastering Tokyo teams games um before the remixes it was Birth by Sleep Dream Drop on PSP and 3DS I wonder they also made chain uh rechain they also made rechain yeah rechain as well and I wonder what the impression of Osaka team would have been if Birth by Sleep came out on Console like they kind of wanted it to like in the very very early stages of development cuz if you go back and look at early Birth by Sleep footage you can try to see that a lot of stuff is different even in the combat like in the command menu and the way it works uh the Command Deck and the way it works I I'm pretty sure you're able to cancel your commands a little more smoothly from the looks of it and Birth by Sleep wanted when they had that like PS2 footage of it in like the first trailer I I I don't know like I I think the handheld consoles Definitely Maybe had some restrictions with them but end of the day like I'm just just hoping that when it comes to a soccer team that kh4 is the best it can be and kh4 does go beyond what kh2 did for a lot of people I think Osaka team does a very good job at like experimenting and at having a sort of free more free form style combat as much as I love how Tokyo team commits to one one thing and then does that one thing super well like with the dry forms and like with the resource management and with Kingdom Hearts 2 is a little bit more like linear level design and like battle system I think that Osaka team does a good job on the other end and having just this really free you can do whatever you want sort of combat feeling like I can airs up across the screen if I want to I can hold Drew three form changes at once I have this attraction flow I have I don't you just have so many things at your disposal in Osaka games which is probably why they're not as balanced uh but it's also what makes them so so so fun and I think what they really should touch up on is in reman they definitely did a good thing in making some bosses that took advantage of their more free form combat system bosses that utiliz the mechanics a lot better rather than just okay I can do whatever the heck I want uh bosses that forced you to use air step to kind of punish their attacks or bosses that forced you to kind of explore things like Parry frames explore things uh like critical guard timing I don't know just just a lot of things I I I really like that about remine and I think as long as they improve of a remine Kingdom Hearts 4 is going to be a game for the books man I think um I think one of the biggest things when it comes to the game play uh because I know you're were talking about like the free form game play cuz uh and this is obviously the like the tricky uh or I say the hot button word uh in the community when it comes to the gameplay floatiness um so I think the issue with Kingdom hearts' floatiness in the past was they tried too hard to make the gam playay centered around being near the ground but the game was too floaty I mean when you think about Birth by Sleep um most commands if you try to use them in the air it would just shove you down to the ground yeah um which that dlink you can't even activate a dlink in the air yeah and to me that was just weird um so so like I I think they really understood what to do in uh Kingdom Hearts 3 because not only do they tone down the floatiness a lot but they made their bosses especially in remind uh more catered to the floaty combat so you weren't really punished for jumping I I think some like big figures in the community agree that floess was never like the proper term to go after back then of course you still hear it nowadays because it was like a trendy term back then and it's it it was the buzz word back then and to for a lot of people it's still the word they use now but what people really mean when they say the word floatiness is they really mean l like in Birth by Sleep there's a lot of lag in doing aerial moves there's a lot of it's very slow it doesn't feel good it takes 9 million years to do a air combo when Aqua like goes into the air and Birth by Sleep it feels like I'm just drifting in like space for 9 million years before my next attack comes out and that's something in Kingdom Hearts 2 even in Kingdom Hearts 1 and especially in Kingdom Hearts 3 you don't really feel Kingdom Hearts 3 the only criticism I'd give it floatiness is that Kingdom Hearts 3 does have like a little bit of a landing lag thing but what Kingdom Hearts 3 did that a lot of the other floatier Kingdom Hearts games didn't do is Kingdom Hearts 3 used its floatiness to its advantage and made Sora just as good in the air as he was on the ground in other Kingdom Hearts games you're kind of at a disadvantage if you're in the air even though they wanted you to do aerial combat in Kingdom Hearts 1 doing air combos is significantly faster than doing ground combos in Kingdom Hearts 2 air combos are just really powerful and you get a lot more out of your attacks being in the air uh but despite that in Kingdom Hearts 2 after you finish your combo you have you have to land back on the ground cuz the opponent retaliates while you're in the air it's going to be a little rough for you yeah you could do Trinity you could do reflect but aside from those two things which use MP you really have as many options in Kingdom Hearts 3 you could do everything in the air that you can do on the ground and and then some so it's like There's no distinction you're sora's good in the air sora's good on the ground it's Kingdom Hearts 3 you're you're a jack of all trads and I love that about kri I want Kingdom Hearts to stay that way personally maybe add a little more weight to your abilities or to your hits and stuff like add a little bit more gravity like I don't think Sora should just stop falling like when he does an aerial hit but I I didn't mind it that much so yeah I think that's one of the main things when it comes to the quote ful is that anything you do in the air that was allowed in the air would basically stop you completely so Sora felt like he had no like him and other characters they feel like they have no weight no gra when you were doing that right but if you look at especially Kingdom Hearts 1 gam play it didn't matter what you were doing if you were in the air you were descending yeah I think Kars one's a little too weighty though like I a lot of people that's a criticism for them I love Kingdom Hearts one combat but I don't want to go back to Kingdom Hearts 1 in terms of how weighty they are I think Kingdom Hearts 2 is like the perfect like feeling for air combat for sure oh I think one of my biggest issues with the weight in Kingdom Hearts 1 is that uh if you were doing something uh in the air but you were too close to the ground Landing would cancel it right so like let's say you were trying to do a life-saving cure but you're were too close to the ground Sora could would cancel it and then it would just leave you completely open that's happened to me so many times dude in Kingdom Hearts one dude especially okay this was a very common thing and this this is a little bit for the old school cage fans very common thing that happened in vanilla cuz in vanilla Kingdom Hearts 1 when I say vanilla Kingdom Hearts 1 I'm talking about the OG PS2 version or just the PS2 version of the game period not Final Mix uh you had no Leaf bracers so jumping to do cure was a pretty common thing you would try to do because a lot of enemies wouldn't hit you in the air so you tried to jump away from them and try to cast The Cure and then you would land and the Cure wouldn't activate so you're just dead so yeah that that would happen a lot you also perform magic faster in the air I believe so yeah you definitely do in K1 so it it just made more sense to uh to jump and also like when it came to like games like karts one and two um pairing was definitely especially karts one pairing was like such a big part of the game play I love that so like because obviously there was no guard in the air and the guard in Kingdom Hearts I wasn't as reliable as it is in future titles so if you wanted to really do well against an enemy but you had to disrupt their attack you were parrying you learn to Parry yeah you definitely had to I mean I love parrying in King Mars I love the tech point system I I want that to come back personally they had it in Kingdom Hearts 3 trailers like in early K3 trailers but it's not in the game anymore I guess they realized there wasn't really a point to it in Kingdom Hearts 3 shoot can you imagine how much easier three would have been out of launch if they also gave you XP for just finishing a combo or just Tech points like you would be way overleveled yeah I understand why they took that out in retrospect they were probably like yeah you level up too fast right now I think in kh3 the reason that game was so easy at launch is cuz they wanted to give you they wanted you to experience everything they didn't want you to not experience or traction flow they didn't want you to not experience like form changes so they scaled everything up they made you get form changes so fast they made you get attraction flow in like so many fights even in fights where honestly attraction flow shouldn't have been there uh they they made link super broken like I I don't know like K3 link fully restored your HP at the time you were you were unkillable during attractions I believe just not as much I'm sorry huh I I said I think they restored HP on crit too just not as much yeah they only restore like half yeah um which is that honestly like I think that's better for something that bloody biscuits talked about um because if you guys don't know bloody biscuits he's like a he's a big name in the gameplay aspect of the Kingdom Hearts Community uh I think he's a speedrunner uh he's definitely made videos about the combat um in kingom Hearts games and uh one thing that he talked about love the C talks so one one thing he had talked about in one video that really stuck with me is he talked about decision making uh cuz decision making is a big part of basically any game and what makes a game a game so you it's all up to a decision especially with an RPG on do I use this thing that'll give me this or do you use this thing that'll give me that right so when it came to uh like say Kingdom Hearts 2 do you give up your MP to pull off a magic spell or to cure yourself or do you use your MP to use a limit and you'll be invincible and you do do heavy damage but you won't be healing yourself uh during that time you won't you'll still be at one HP uh so when it came to and there has to be like some sort of cost aspect with the decision that way like no decision is just the easiest one to make because at the time if you wanted to cure in Kingdom Hearts 3 like when it first came out it just made more sense to use a link because yeah it required a full MP bar but um if you had it then why would I just cure myself and I'm immediately open right afterwards when I can use a link be unkillable and be doing heavy damage um so now with critical mode it only restores half your HP so now it's a choice of do I sacrifice having a full HP bar in order to do some damage or do I just not do any damage at all and give myself the full HP bar yeah I think on crit it definitely made lyns a little more risky but even then I think lyns and character are just absurdly broken like period I no matter what difficulty you're on if you're on level one they're broken if you're on if you're on critical mode they're bro they're broken if you're on any other difficulty aside from those two they are Beyond broken like I I think links and K3 are one of my least favorite mechanics in the entire series and this is coming from someone who loves Kingdom Hearts 3 Kingdom Hearts 3 has my my favorite combat system in the entire series uh for various reasons and remine just added like more fuel to the fire for me like I loved K3 but links suck because it's everything that I don't like about a Kingdom Hearts mechanic it's too easy of a mechanic it's too broken of a of a mechanic and there's no depth to them like Kingdom Hearts 2 I think is the best game that does summons like King Hearts 3 has the best summon system dinks a little after that and bir by sleep but I don't know if you'd call that summon system but uh K2 summon systems are still good because it has a lot of utility it has a lot of depth and like there's different uses for different summons like uh for Stitch you get an infinite MP bar basically you can still attack it's a little it's a little powerful but like still you have to trade off using summons for Drive forms you can't use both you know it takes up your gauge uh in Kingdom Hearts 3 it only taking up the MP bar and a game where ethers and elixir are like everywhere like like you can just buy buy ethers spam something the cost of a mcken huh ethers are like the cost of a McChicken pretty much and like to be honest ethers are like that other Kingdom Hearts games too like you can get a ether in any Kingdom Hearts game pretty easily but in Kingdom Hearts 3 you definitely get the most value out of it cuz Magic's just insanely broken in Kingdom Hearts 3 it's broken in every Kingdom Hearts game but it's beyond broken in Kingdom Hearts and links are the perfect example of that because all the links do is damage like there's not a single Kingdom Hearts game aside from three where every summon every dlink like the everything in cage3 does damage well I guess Dream Drop does as well Dream Drop all the links do damage but I want to say the links are that damaging in Dream Drop they're kind of like they're there they're not as damaging as balloon or any other abilities you could probably do they're just kind of they're fun to look at that's the part of it in Dream Drop that's cool but oh my gosh man I'm sorry keep only dream link that I can think of or dream links that I can think of that add a different sort of utility is rising wing for Riku and the uh like the dice uh dream link for Sora with like the RNR seal yeah um because obviously like you're gambling with Sor and rku it gives you wings and the ability to like kind of float in the air um but yeah the system better I see rku are a lot more similar to form changes I feel like they they are they are they're fun form changes though they're they're built like the command styles from uh Birth by Sleep except there was no like finisher that you can use which honestly they probably should have added it definitely would have made it a thousand times better and even then um they required a whole separate resource like like they they were their own resource rather than being tied to like anything else right uh so in a way it kind of made them not spammable at all no it was it was tied to a link gauge which were tied to your dream meters and the there were only three ways to increase the link gaug uh every time your dream meter takes damage it goes up every time you attack an enemy at the same time as your dream meter the link gauge would go up or if you use dream candies which are not that easy to get yeah they aren't that easy to get that they're not so if you were using that like you knew that you were going to be using it again for a while so something I wanted to um talk about this became a big combat podcast we love talking about combat though so we'll probably get many many more of these for sure but something I want to talk about um another thing that sparked this video was I uploaded a video recently to my channel um where I just kind of vented about something with old school Kingdom Hearts games that I experienc and this is more so talking about the personal experience not like the community broader Spectrum sort of thing but something I miss about being a kid experiencing Kingdom Hearts compared to now being a Creator is I miss when Worlds were surprises like it was a surprise seeing Atlantica uh nightm before Christmas uh Tarzan these other worlds in Kingdom Hearts 1 it was a surprise to see him in kingom Hearts 2 it was a surprise to see like Tron return in dream do distance um it's nowadays we know every world that comes to a Kingdom Hearts game like I'm confident that when Kingdom Hearts 4 drops we're probably going to see and know every single world that's in that game and because why why wouldn't you like this was technically the case where Kingdom Hearts wented to back in the day but the one I'm saying here is that we we weren't in in a social media age where you could look at a Kingdom Hearts fan on the street and say ask them if they've watched every trailer nowadays a lot of Mars fans watch every single trailer and that's because like we want to be in the hype we want to be in the no we want to we we we don't want to miss out on like any talks or discussions our community we're sacrificing that experience for like Community talks talks with the fans but I do kind of miss it though and I'm not this isn't even me saying like I don't like what it's like now cuz I I'll I can live what knowing every world right but it's just it's just something to think about like we used World used to be surprises like the next Disney movie in a cage game was like a big surprise while you were playing the game as you landed like as the gummy ship would fly up onto the world and you'd see that world you'd be like whoa what is this and then it's you see freaking Tarzan and you're popping off like oh my gosh that's I don't know that that was such a surreal moment as a kid I love that I think I think what Square needs to do moving forward is just not show every word they they're going to though cuz why wouldn't you like why would you not advertise Star Wars as as a I get it's part of the market right and obviously the the bigger world you can do that right because obviously that's that's when that that's what going to get people excited right because the hype for kingom hearts definitely went up when we found out that Toy Story was going to be in Kingdom Hearts that was definitely a big thing and as much as people might not want to admit it do you know how many little kids probably bought Kingdom Hearts cuz of Frozen like let's be real I'd rather not talk about that even if that world wasn't that good like and you know how many people probably got the game cuz they saw Elsa and Anna in it like that's a big deal there's a there's a person out there that bought kingom Mars 3 made it all the way to let it go in the Frozen world and then just stop playing and there there's probably there's parents who don't know what their kids want for Christmas and know that they like Disney and they buy them kh3 because it has Disney on it like that's a thing that happened so like I I that's more or less how I got into Kingdom Hearts in a in a weird way that's probably a lot of people watching this G gante Kingdom Hearts if they didn't go out of their way themselves like some of you probably like Disney as a kid and your parents maybe got you Kingdom Hearts cuz it had Disney on it you saw Disney on the cover or maybe you got into Kingdom Hearts cuz you saw a cool looking like kid with a keyblade uh for me I got into Kingdom Hearts not for any of those reason I got into Kingdom Hearts by chance but it definitely appealed to me that I had Disney in it like I liked Kingdom Hearts a lot because of Disney my parents um I got Kingdom Hearts because my dad uh this is the way the story was told to me I don't know if it's accurate but my dad uh had a friend in the military who grounded his son and sold all his PS2 games sucks to be that kid but my dad was the one who bought all the PS2 games for like a really cheap price right we had a PS2 Kingdom Hearts was one of those games and Kingdom Hearts was a game that I would watch like my parents play uh on the couch would have these like little sit Downs like bonding moments as a family you would just play a game on the couch a lot of you probably did that with like Wii Sports and stuff back then too I did that as well Kingdom Hearts was one of those like couch games I play with my family and I remember man I could not get past Travers toown for the life of me Traver toown took so long to get past like I could not be armor I sucked I was so bad as a kid I saw that like Donald and Goofy Meetup scene so many times and I'm just like oh my gosh man it's Donald and Goofy I love Donald Donald and Goofy growing up I mean what what kid doesn't like Donald and Goofy but still like this is what I'm talking about like old school Kingdom Hearts definitely has this nostalgic feeling to it it's definitely Nostalgia like I love New Kingdom Hearts I love Kingdom Hearts 3 Kingdom Hearts 3 is great Birth by Sleep is great Dream Drop is great I love those games but man Kingdom Hearts 1 like I I I the me reminiscing over Kingdom Hearts 1 I I love kh1 I love kh1 I love kh2 man those games are so good I miss them I I miss my first experiences with them rather let's see honestly another thing uh about um old school versus new school is is uh did we talk about release frequency yet we have not actually that's something we should transition into yeah because um we definitely had it good uh back in the old school when it came to release frequency we didn't realize it but we definitely did we had it good we're talking pre- remix era for the most part right yeah yes because namora was like let's push a Kingdom Hearts game out every year and that started honestly it started with rechain so rechain uh was released in 2008 358 in 2009 BBS in 2010 recoded in 2011 and DDD in 2012 if we include rechain that's five consecutive years of just getting Kingdom Hearts games sh we got King even in the 2010s even though a lot of them were re-releases like while we were waiting for Kingdom Hearts 3 we were kind of spoiled too yeah we waited for K3 for a while but think about this we got Final Mix finally in the US you know how long like I was on the Kingdom Hearts forums back then you know how long we were like waiting for final mixes to come to uh the US that was a big thing people wanted that was a huge thing like to in 2013 when they announced that Kingdom Hearts 1 finx would finally be coming to the US to other countries it was a big deal man that happened in 2013 in 2014 we got Kingdom Hearts 2 Final Mix a even bigger Final Mix experience uh coming well and then I don't think we got anything in 2015 if I remember no we got we got unch key in 2015 didn't we am I tripping unch K was in 2015 2016 was supposed to be 2.8 but that would be delayed to early January um yeah and and then after that I think it was a little bit of a low period I mean you could technically count things like we got a Union Cross expansion I believe in 2017 which basically rebranded to Union Cross that basically was a new game at the time to be honest cuz un shanking and Union Cross are very different from one another in terms of what what let's not forget that Kingdom Hearts 3 was originally supposed to come out in 2018 yeah so even like while waiting for Kingdom Hearts 3 we borderline got yearly Kingdom Hearts content and we took it for granted now admittedly I I would argue that the yearly content we got after the remixes wasn't as like crazy right as like Birth by Sleep or Dream Drop and stuff but it was still something right uh but before the remix era like you said and I would even go farther back like well it wasn't full on yearly at most we'd wait like a year for another Kingdom Hearts title like shoot after Kingdom Hearts won it wasn't that long till chain of Memories came out what chain of Memories I forget the official release it was it like 04 I think for chain of Memories I don't I don't quite remember I'm be honest CH memories was 04 it was 04 yeah so 04 for train of memories Kingdom Hearts 2 was 2005 sl6 uh depending on what country you lived in um and then after that Noir like Noir said with rechain days coded BBS dream like Kingdom Hearts was pumping out games man and now eating now in the new era of cage the new school Kingdom Hearts we don't have it as good anymore and I know everyone wants to preach patience and all that stuff I get it I preach it as well be screw that be be patient okay because at the end of the day Gaming's rough right now like y'all y'all know what's going on with the economy in the gaming world like the gaming world is getting hit like games are costing way too much money games are taking six to seven years to make for AAA games gaming is in a rough spot right now um and it's going to get a little bit worse before it gets a lot better so right now to compare it Kingdom Hearts 4 last two years what have we gotten nothing what have we gotten since Melody of memory nothing we we got nothing I mean okay so let's go through the timeline after Melody of memory release Melody of memory release at the end of 2020 2020 was a good year though like that was a good year we got a lot we got a major Union Cross we got some major Union Cross story that year we got remind we got uh Melody of memory we had a lot of things in 2020 but still Kingdom Hearts fans were Ian during Co for sure 2021 Union Cross ended then shortly after that uh we we we're in a lull period until uh the 20th anniversary event where Missing Link and kh4 was announced and dark row was announced to finish so dark Road uh finished in oh yeah dark Road did come out I think in 2020 as well uh dark Road finished in 2022 and I think that was about it that since basically since dark Road finished we haven't had we haven't had anything we haven't had a new Missing Link trailer we haven't had a new Kingdom Hearts 4 trailer since dark Road finished in August of 2022 we have gotten zip so other fan bases are looking at Kingdom Hearts fans right now like bro really y youall have to wait two years that's insane I have to wait like five years for my game I'm I'm part of the FDC I understand the idea of waiting like years for other games I I'm I'm not I'm not completely ignorant to the to that fact but regarding Kingdom Hearts it is a little slow like we got used to some content I'd say um one one big thing that I wanted to talk about that we had discussed a little bit earlier um that the newer kingom Arts fans just don't realize is like the versions of King Hearts 1 to in Birth by Sleep that we all know and are familiar with and obviously like some of our most favorite aspects of those games we didn't have for a long time because namora was like I doubt international players will want to buy the same game twice even if we add like some cool stuff in the in the re-release so there were a lot of people who never experienced any Final Mix stuff until it was re-released on PS3 and PS4 um and I know for me personally I was desperate to get Final Mix oh yeah I was desperate to get if it never came to the US I probably would have imported it at some point 100% um I definitely had thoughts of importing it too um so and honestly like and I know this might sound like a bold claim but a lot of what people like about Kingdom Hearts 2 is finalx right so like a lot of the cooler aspects of Kingdom Hearts 2 that a lot of people love you know the the data battles lingering will uh limit form uh and honestly like the C of remembrance all that stuff was F exclusive if you had the regular base Kingdom Hearts to oh my God you had almost like in my opinion you had almost no postgame content yeah you had you had the the tournaments at Olympus but once you reached level 99 you were broken and you had a one- Time sephar Roth fight Kingdom Hearts 2 also had the easy problem too as well like a lot of people don't think about that with kh3 cuz Kingdom Hearts 2 back in the day people like to argue it nowadays cuz I know some newer Kingdom Hearts fans or people who just weren't w't super deep into the community like before the remixes like a big thing with Kingdom Hearts 2 back then was triangle to win that was the meme with Kingdom Hearts 2 Kingdom Hearts 2 press triangle to win uh and it's because that Meme deres from people playing base Kingdom Hearts 2 on proud uh if you even played it on proud some people probably just played K2 for the first time on standard right that was before like playing games on the hardest difficulty was like kind of part of gaming culture like nowadays a lot of you're kind of shunned on the internet if you don't play the games on the harder difficulty which uh yin and yang you know like there's goods and bads to that I I don't think anyone should ever be shunned for playing a game the way they want but don't don't play a game on the easy as difficulty and then call it easy uh but with Kingdom Hearts 2 that Meme derived from people playing Kingdom Hearts 2 on proud or easier difficulties and mashing triangle cuz like you you kind of could Mash triangle on most fights in the game and kind of win well I would I would argue that a little bit you know like I don't like some bosses are definitely not matching triangle unless they're fineing zalen but like Kingdom Hearts 2 a lot of bosses had these moments where like you would press triangle and you would get an instant punish right you would press triangle and it would stagger them and it would like it would have it would do damage something right like reaction commands did a lot in in in base cage too and it does a lot in critical mode as well but the difference is you're getting one shot on critical mode if you don't get that punished you know what I mean enemies are a lot more aggro on that difficulty mode but yeah K base K2 had no Dodge Roll No Limit form um triangle to win was the meme it it was a probably as easy if not a little like a tiny bit harder than base c 3 was like base cage2 K1 is probably a lot better than Bas C2 maybe not a lot better but it might be better lowkey in my opinion yes may not the story obvious obviously not story but when it came to gameplay absolutely gameplay yeah cuz kh1 kh1 got a lot of Buffs off of Final Mix as well um mostly mostly with um what's it called what am I saying mostly with air combat or ground combat like you got things like Slap Shot you got things like sliding Dash also in final mies they had to balance out some things in Kingdom of Hearts 2 because they were just too broken like reflect people think reflect is like strong now you should have seen reflect in base Kingdom Hearts 2 you were murdering people with reflega and uh there was also like this weird um I I don't know if you can call it a glitch but if you performed Trinity on an organization fight it would basically no matter what Point Health they were it would kill them yeah yeah like it would continuously go and because it wasn't technically hitting their Revenge value it would just keep hitting them until they died yeah all right so we're going to have to end this episode off here because unfortunately I do have to go but this was a very very fun episode uh talking about the combat talking about old school versus new school Kingdom Hearts um thank you shout out to all the patrons uh who are following and you know subscribing to the patreon I forget the terminology for patreon but yeah thank you guys so much uh thank you Noir for coming out being the co-host for today's episode we're going to be back very soon very very soon but until then my name is proy I'm nor lomber and we will see you guys soon peace out you guys bye