Producer Colin 'Doc' Brittain Shares The Evolution of His Career and Lasting Collaboration with The

it must have been like June 2021 I was driving down the freeway with my friend Elijah and swayko hits me up and he goes yo I wrote this song with John Feldman ironically he's like can you send it to me they're just kind of sent to you and I said yeah it sends it to me and it's just a demo and that was the song paralyzed and I heard that I was like oh [ __ ] this is crazy like holy [ __ ] I was like this is it's not there yet bro I was like it's so it's not there but I was like this is I feel something with this one area [Music] foreign Hello friends and welcome back again to the record process this week we hit the heart of the back end of this tracklist for season four with an incredibly valuable episode featuring producer engineer and songwriter extraordinaire Mr Colin Britton Colin has worked with a ton of Mega artists bands like five seconds to Summer A Day to Remember Avicii Pierce the Veil Papa Roach all-time low but he popped into the record process this week to talk with us about an artist that he's been working a lot with recently by the name of swaco he explains in great detail the role he played on swaco's album it was fun while it lasted which was released on March 4th of 2022. Colin walks us through his early days as a producer building up his Network in the la music scene with people like Zach cervini John Feldman and Nick long so many of the albums that we'll be highlighting this season on the record process share one very important theme and that's the idea of Technology helping musicians and creators overcome the collaborative restrictions that once came along with geographic location thanks to companies like audio movers real-time remote audio production and the tools that make it possible are more powerful than ever their groundbreaking listen to plugin allows you to stream record and collaborate on high quality audio in real time and is used on a daily basis by world-class audio engineers and professionals at places like capital and Abbey Road Studios their new Pro Plan allows you to stream up to 150 users simultaneously includes custom branding and even allows you to stream midi data in real time so head on over to audiomovers.com and enter the code record Pro to get one month free off your pro membership today so as you already know we do a lot of talking about the creation of original music here on the record process I mean that's kind of our thing but it can also be fun to put your own spin on an old classic and tell the world something else about yourself through something like a cover song cover songs can be a really interesting way to connect with your existing fan base or even a way to put yourself in front of new audiences through shared musical tastes and our friend distro kid have made it super simple to upload a cover of your favorite song while allowing them to handle all of the back end licensing work that can really be a headache for Independent Artists distrokid will notify the composer and publisher of its release they will pay the necessary licensing fee and they will take care of all the other legal red tape involved with releasing a cover song on a streaming platform allowing you to fully focus on enjoying the process of putting your unique artistic spin on that recording if you're already a distro kid member you can access this as you're uploading your track for twelve dollars a year per song or if you're not yet a member and you'd like to sign up for distrokid you can use the link in our show notes to get 30 off of your first Year's membership love to see it dude wet the whistle little Topo and we're off uh Colin Britton welcome to the record process what a treat thanks for coming dude thanks for having me Tom and I have been very excited about this obviously you are doing very big things um you've got a lot of really cool projects that you've been a part of um throughout your career um and for anybody that doesn't know obviously we'll link to in the show notes they can see everything uh that you've had your hand in a lot of really really incredible stuff um but interestingly enough uh what kind of brought us back um to this and serendipitously so was a realization that I had about yourself um and knowing you in what seems like a world ago you know but there's actually a a little bit of a crossover um and you've I mean you've had a wild ride since then but uh basically um you know my dad and I didn't know that I do I do know your dad from back in the day when you were just starting out uh and I I remember the name it was a bit of a different one and uh a lot of things have changed since then but yeah I mean this was your first band and my dad actually uh kind of was helping was working with y'all a little bit back in the day when you were um tracking with some some mutual friends and all that yep tell me where it's go update me because I we haven't we haven't it's been 20 years um yeah well I'll give everybody the story then I guess like so um you're for everybody who doesn't know uh Casey's dad Ken is uh is a music manager like a like a artist manager and um my first band when I was in high school um we had gotten like some interest from Atlantic Records and um you know we got like really super serious about it and those within the days of like my space and um early Facebook and I was um kind of like the the back wheel of our band I was really I was really doing all like the reach the Outreach kind of stuff and basically like I just like I think I just Googled like you know music managers or something I don't know I was like 17 or something or 16 or I think I was still in high school and I reached out to your dad and um he was he was really cool and helpful and we were talking for a couple of months and then he's like you know you guys are really good I'd like to manage you I was oh my God we get a real manager he's like he's a real dude and sick like you know and so he brought us up to Philadelphia we worked with um his mutual friend our mutual friend David Ivory yeah engineer producer up there and we did like an EP with him and that was like kind of my first I remember we sent we spent like a whole summer in in Philly it was like the hottest summer on record or something and um you know we made like an EP up there um stayed in this shitty little hotel because we couldn't afford anything else and you know it was like our first time going to New York City because it's right right across the you know it's just right down the road and um we played a few shows um what's up one place called The Grape Street is that what it's called Grape Street Pub yeah yeah we played there a few times to like four people and uh yeah man I don't know it was super cool your dad he's such a sweetheart and um he always really loved him so but yeah and then by the way it's worth mentioning to your you said that uh I had a different name so it's actually the same name my middle name is Britain a lot of people don't know that okay cool and yeah okay and so yeah and so like my last name's Cunningham so the reason that I changed like my professional name is my middle name is because when I moved to LA the first record that I like big record that I was like involved with the production on was um Five Seconds of Summer's first debut album it was like my first like big big thing that I got into out here I remember when it came time to like turn the credits in like I didn't have any any like producer credits at that time you know of note or whatever and I realized that this record at that time like that record had already they were already like blowing up and worldwide and everything and so we knew the record was going to be probably a pretty big impact and so I thought well whoever like whatever I'm credited as on this is going to be sort of like that's the foundation like everybody's gonna that's the starting point like I can't pivot I can't change my name later if I don't so I had the foresight to like Google Colin Cunningham to see what popped up and it was like this this guy Colin Cunningham he's a b-list actor he's been like a bunch of like 90s Schwarzenegger films like as a b or c role so he was like famous enough to where people would like he you know not everybody knows who he is he's not he's not famous enough so everybody knows who he is but he's also famous enough to where he's gonna be probably the first search for a long time and I was like so I'm always gonna be second if people are gonna google me and then that guy's gonna come up ahead of me every single time for the next decade so I was like let me what's the second best option and then I Googled my middle name calling Britain and nothing came up and I was like perfect that's the one that's the reason that I am calling Britton wow so well like dude let's jump right into it what uh how did you get Linked UP out there like how like the five seconds gig I've been into music production like my whole life since I was probably I I think I was like 14 or 15 when I I started my first like I had a summer job with this guy Travis Wyrick um in Tennessee where I grew up and uh he was like a big Christian rock and like you know that kind of producer um he yeah CCM I guess and but he would work with like a lot of those really really big acts in that world so he's super super good um he did like a lot of the Pod stuff and um it's been pillar yeah okay Toby Mac and guys like that and so yeah so we we I was like basically you know it's just like a little kid um you know it was over there like like cleaning bathrooms and stuff for him but I remember my dad was always in music we always had music gear around and and uh he bought like a little Studio rig like a little like fostex 16 channel recorder and for those for kids who don't know what that is that's like you know in the mid 2000s recording gear wasn't like on everybody's laptop it was it was actually pretty expensive to get a like 15 years ago or 16 years ago it was it was expensive to get a laptop that was you know in an interface and like all the recording gear you couldn't just have a cheap laptop and uh you know 100 interface and like a you know you like like now you can pretty much buy you can pretty much pretty I'd say like twelve hundred dollars would get you like a baseline recording ring like back then like you know to get a computer that was capable of doing that and then like an interface and I think you know it was thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars so the alternate was you would go to Guitar Center and you buy these little like recording boxes that were like these little digital all-in-one recording boxes and then you can bounce your your song down to CD or whatever and put that that online and so that was like my first thing was was using the windows and I got really good at that I didn't have a drum room or anything like that and so but I did have my dad had an electric drum kit like a Roland td7 like a b drum kit so you could just plug in like left and right out of that and the drum mix sounded great so it was like already you know it's like there you go there's your drums in a box right there so that was my program drums and I'm a drummer so like it was easy for me because I already played drums so I was making these beats and like playing these you know making these like recordings and stuff and then I wound up getting uh asked by like you know college bands and like Regional bands it's like it's still like 15 or 16 like I was 16 years old I was getting like you know bands like coming in from like Atlanta and like recording my dad's house and [ __ ] you know they pay me and stuff and I would be like wow this is cool and then my band got you know we kind of like got into that whole thing and then that derailed me for a little bit um and I kind of stopped getting in the production thing and then a couple of years later after I I Met Your Dad Casey we got rid of our singer and we got a new singer and we got signed pretty quickly after that my band started we were called Ono Fiasco that's when our bands started really kind of like taking off a little bit and we did like Warp Tour we did we toured a lot of play with Europe we went to Canada we did a bunch of stuff yeah made the rounds it made the rounds we did the thing at that point we started working with this guy Cato kandawala who um engineered like the Paramore Riot record he did all the Breaking Benjamin stuff um and my other friend Dan kornov who we were working with and those guys really like showed me production like proper production they were like real producers you know I mean they were like guys making like real records and I was just like wow this is super cool and they were the ones Cato specifically was like dude you're really good at this like you know will you will you help me do production on these other records and so I'd be on tour on my laptop and he'd be sending me stuff and I'd like said in production fast forward um we were I think we were at the end of Warp Tour maybe or I don't know we were at the end of one of the tours we were doing and we were in La we're shooting uh shooting a music video one of my a r people was like hey we just signed this new guy um Nick long he's looking for like co-producer or co-writers I think you were you'd be really good and so I met him for coffee and at that point I think I was kind of at the end of my touring rope I was just like this is kind of not for me I don't know like I love touring but like I was just like it takes me out of the studio too long you know et cetera et cetera so anyway me and Nick hit it off and turns out Nick is now like a mega star writer he's still one of my good friends he co-roid writes a lot of stuff with Travis Parker he's done like the king princess stuff he's written a ton of the Machine Gun Kelly it's lately it's super talented dude anyway Nick was like you're really really good bro you should like come out and work with me so we you know flew out like as soon as we got home from tour I flew out back out to LA with a bunch of men gear set up in his his buddy's basement which is like in Los Feliz and like I say a basement it was just Immaculate beautiful house with a view and everything and we made a bunch of records and we just like hung out and met a lot of the people around here and I was just like these guys are different like everybody's talented everybody works their ass off and it's just like live work but nobody's burned out everybody's super inspired and the sun this beautiful sunlight and everything and he goes well man if you're interested you know I've got this friend John Feldman who is looking for an engineer and I think you'd be great for it I said sure whatever like guy John Feldman [ __ ] I love his stuff you know whatever so like he sends his son sends Our Song and a couple of my other Productions to John and like literally a day later John calls me and he's like yo can you fly out I just gotten back home to Tennessee I was like yeah it's like the day after Thanksgiving on a plane flew back out here and the next thing I know I'm like working on the used and Five Seconds of Summer and then John's like you know basically long and short of it was like you know he would like throw different stuff I mean he'd be like oh can can you use Pro Tools I'm like I can't use Pro Tools I use Cubase but he's like oh that's a bummer I'm like dude don't worry I can figure it out so it's like in there with like my phone like you know Pro Tools tutorials figuring it out um can you play drums on this yes can you play mandolin on this I'm like yes can you write a piano part for this I'm like yeah um I think he asked me to play a banjo part I'm like I don't know like he would can you edit vocals can you do it like he was literally finding every left and right thing he could throw at me to see if I was able to do it I was sleeping on the couch I stayed up all night I just got probably five hours of sleep that week you know and um and it was a transformative time because it was just like you know just such a like sort of purest Awakening of what my potential was and then he hired me and then um yeah and the next thing you know I'm live in Los Angeles and uh working for John and um and at that time I met Zach cervini who I was was also working there so as me and Zach were kind of like his his um his crew for a while and uh and that's how I became really good friends with Zach Zach cervani and um you know like kind of that was it from then on I bet met pretty much attribute my entire career to that you know week or whatever dude that's amazing you had I mean and even before you got out there with John it sounds like the you know the overarching theme of this is like is really solid really valuable mentorship all the way through from a bunch of guys whether it's Dan you know um the dudes that you're working with early uh in the Nashville Scene right like you know it just it's kind of It kind of all builds and comedies today and I do definitely you know resonate with hearing you uh that like personally you felt like the touring tenure we were like I you kind of got to pick it's really tough I struggle with that and have for like the last like 10 15 years with Wonder Years um feeling like you know it can be very stop and start uh with projects so I love that man thank you so much for that backstory too what a you know what an inspiring story and um a great way to kind of segue into you know what sets the stage for all the records that you've been working on recently namely of which is the swaco record that we have asked you here to talk about that's been doing crazy things so talk to us about how that relationship started out and and how that connection was first made so sway is like one of those guys who I he was like I guess I'm trying to think this was probably about 20 this must have been 2020 when I met him so yeah so like a little over two years ago and um I kept hearing his song fast um I don't know if you guys remember that song but it's like a hip-hop song and I kept her I kept you know I kept um hearing that song and I was just like I I kind of was at a time where I was sort of like actually trying to change up my process and not do quite so many rock bands I kept hearing that and um I like kind of a mutual friend who who was on his a and our team at Atlantic and um they're like well we get you a session et cetera he really loves a day to remember so so I got done with data remember and swaco comes in and we wound up doing a song and uh and writing this song it was kind of like it's kind of a mess but then I was like he was really enjoying the fact that like I mixed through my API console I was using like some of like the analog Distortion and stuff he's like dude this is your process is so different than what I'm used to you know because he's used to making like hip-hop beats in Ableton and we just became friends I don't know like it was kind of like the first thing is we just became friends I was like this kid is really something special about him he was wild like just out of control wild we had some good conversation and it was like a 14-hour session it's so long we wound up making a couple of songs and none of neither one of them were that good but then he called me one day and he was like hey um will you like mix some of this other stuff that I did I was like yeah sure so ham and some of his co-producers came over and then I just kind of wound up like having him over this was like at the end of the paint well it was still in the pandemic so like stuff was kind of slow as far as like sessions and then he was like [ __ ] it I don't care I'm just gonna do sessions and so he was one of the people that really was like moving at that time I don't mean to say that he doesn't care about the pandemic he was just kind of like I think he was like he had covered he felt comfortable he was just like let's just keep moving the making the music happen and so I wound up mixing a lot of his earlier stuff that some of which really didn't come out on the record because we were still kind of trying to find the the process also there's this guy Willie up in who's this young a r at Atlantic who I don't think they really knew what to do with swaco like he'd gone through a couple different a r people they weren't really sure what he was gonna they were like well his one song is huge but like we don't he wants to do rock and we don't [ __ ] you know it's like some they just I don't know if like ever the corporate label really knew what to like how to like what to do with him so they were just like let's like keep it going I don't know I just believed in him and I just was and I still believe in him and I was like this kid is talented I don't know like we just kept working together we just kept having great conversation and you know and so we uh we wound up like working for probably nine months or something we had that song with Travis Barker um and a lot of it was kind of mixing that's how it started for me like it was like he already had these tracks Colin can you come in and mix and then like it's just one song Same Old story that my friend dwilly produced that I jumped in on the production like after the song was written I was the one that Travis is on and uh the song was pretty much written and then I really just like added the guitars to it you know and like mixed it and then Travis like added his drums to it or whatever and and then that's kind of that kind of that song kind of happened in like piece by piece and then one day I was in LA probably about it must have been like June 2021 and I was driving down the freeway with my friend Elijah and swaco hits me up and he goes yo I wrote this song with John Feldman ironically and he's like can you send it to me there was kind of sent to you and I said yeah it sends it to me and it's just a demo and that was the song paralyzed and I heard that I was like oh [ __ ] this is crazy like holy [ __ ] I was like this is it's not there yet bro I was like it's so it's not there but I was like this is I feel something with this one let me produce this like it just needs some tweaking we need to tweak a few lyrics and I think we need to rewrite the bridge but like we're getting there with it like that's incredible so John sends me the stems and uh we got in in a matter of like I don't know maybe three days we did the final production you know I put drums on it um we recut the guitars we rewrote the bridge I had the backgrounds my friend Erica sing background vocals on it and just um and the big thing was the original one was I'm [ __ ] paralyzed is how it said I'm [ __ ] parallels I was like that's not it dude like you got me paralyzed like let's let's change this first line and sometimes when you change one line it really just it just soars the whole thing and so then fast forward a couple like a month later I also had suaco jump on this Papa Roach song that was the first song that they put out off this album that I produced called ego trip and uh because I just was like I don't know this they they needed something like him and I felt like it'd be a good look for him to jump into to rock that song came out and people were like oh this is crazy and then like a day later he posted paralyzed just on Tick Tock and that's when that [ __ ] went crazy and then it was just like the world changed for him after that wow if you're an audio engineer or musician that's dedicated to creating and releasing new music consistently then you already know that that process can be long complex and often expensive especially while you're trying desperately not to sacrifice the type of quality that is crucial for your mixes to stand up to those big budget Productions producer and friend of the record process J moss has reimagined these roadblocks to Quality that plague us all with the help of world-renowned sound Engineers Jay developed an AI based platform called Master which offers you the ability to quickly upload your song and receive a high quality mastered Edition in minutes all at a price point that won't break the bank with each new mix revision the platform also allows you to easily collect feedback from clients and collaborators and it even caters to the perfectionist in us all by allowing you to quickly compare and contrast different iterations of each track as you make those final subtle tweaks so for a limited time this season you as a record process listener can not only try monster for free but you can also receive a 20 discount on your first membership by using the code process on their website at checkout so hit the link in our show notes or visit maastr.io for more info [Music] so a lot of people think that Oxford pennant makes well penny pennant the Triangular wool flag type things that usually have like a sports teams logo or the name of a place printed on them well to be honest that is what I thought too before my band The Wonder Years had the chance to work with them through that process we realized just how much care they put into their beautifully crafted iconic keepsakes that remind us who we are and why we do what we do they've teamed up with some massive artists in the process bands like My Chemical Romance Wilco and 21 Pilots just to name a few and they even offer Custom Shop orders for artists companies and unique events or special occasions so please do yourself a favor and head over to oxfordpennant.com and use the code record15 to receive 15 off your first retail purchase from their web store so he was coming to you because and this is interesting too because you said like the entry point to a lot of this was It was kind of you mixing uh up front um with some of it because it because he had been making beats and existing in that world and like kind of you know playing that uh like production role so um what did that look like then too um because you it's interesting uh you were kind of almost going one way and he was you know going the other like trying to get you know like potentially uh getting into the Rock World um and you were like looking to diversify and maybe work with some some other people outside of it so I love that how that kind of like serendipitously happened and and made this whole thing go right absolutely I mean that's how a lot of the best stuff happens honestly you know you just have to use it I think it's like using your using your gut and just like not um and it's worth it's worth saying I guess that like sometimes your gut is gonna tell you something that's like you feel like it's a no because it doesn't make sense and you're good and you feel like your gut is going nah man I don't know like but a lot of times I think that's your head telling your gut something you have to sort of look at the context about people like put too much they're like what does your gut say I'm like it's a little too simple I think it's like you know you have to look at the context of what everything is like nothing has ever really planned out I think it's just like there's a lot of it that has to do with just doing it you know what I'm saying just do it I'm a friend of mine who is a songwriter Kevin Bard he's a very successful country songwriter and he told me one day he was like always do the session just do the session like if you have a session just [ __ ] do it if it's on the books and you've already agreed to it don't cancel sessions and it's not because it's like don't cancel sessions because you don't want to seem flaky that's not his point his point is is you know like you never know when that thing is gonna happen and it's just like just do the work and do your best and that's it and if you just do it enough times you know we all like slip and like cab days where we just are like kind of half-assing or whatever and just you know that's part of life it's not really like you can't judge yourself too hard about that but you do have to like keep being persistent yeah I mean that's dude that is um that's Rock Solid advice in that sense of like um it's gonna be tough to get anywhere if uh it's just a whole bunch of news you know you're gonna cut down that momentum and you're never gonna see what happens and this is a perfect example where you said yeah I'll do the session you know I'll see what happens and I'm sure there have been plenty others but it's just the right place right time kind of stuff but only if you're like willing to kind of extend go outside your comfort zone or just say [ __ ] it let's see what happens you know and I love that and that's kind of you know that's kind of I mean uh with TWIC is kind of like trajectory and you know with a bunch of like the the viral videos that kind of like started like taking off with everything that was kind of you know almost his approach of just you know seeing what happens and making some [ __ ] right well he's like he's a special he's a unique character because like in the era of like of short format videos I wouldn't even say just Tick Tock but just short format videos but Tick Tock specifically because 85 five percent or 80 or something of Music Discovery happens on Tick Tock now which is you know just whatever it is what it is now and and it's like that is the medium and so there's a lot of like um there's a I think that's an awesome thing and also kind of a weird thing for some people who are used to a different format or a different way of doing things um swaco is one of the unique people I think I've seen who who has the ability to like sort of be a TV character because like Tick Tock in a lot of ways is like it's like television in a in an oversimplified way it's like it's a video format so you have to be like entertaining to be able to attract eight million fans like how he has eight million followers on Tick Tock it's like that's not something that most people can just do you know even if you're a huge musician um because there's a lot of people who don't even like who just like swaco just because he's a character and not everybody is like that and not everybody should be like that um but you know he's that got the unique ability to sort of like turn off like we had this one song called ride it hard and it's a country song that we did with our friend Warren zeiters and it was it started out as kind of like a joke song but then you know the dude came out to Nashville where where I currently live and um you know it was like they came out for three days I think this was after the song was done and I think we worked on the song for like one day and then the other two days they were just running around the studio making Tick Tock videos as if it was as if it was a like a video shoot like they were um swaco's manager Lucas is one of the craziest like most intelligent and forward-thinking managers I've ever met like he's literally like a video producer in and of itself like half of suaco's time is spent thinking about how to make videos and and not just videos but like also how to like make meaningful content and then the other half is making like very impactful insightful music and he doesn't really cross the two around it's one thing I really like about him is that he doesn't he doesn't cross the two when he's in the studio he's fully in the studio he's fully present and I think that's something that people need to like really pay attention to now where where information is right in our face all the time there's no Clarity and he has a good way of being like okay I'm not on Tick Tock today like when he's in the studio he's not really on his phone he doesn't and and you know and some artists will be like oh well I'm like in here making a tick tock like oh this would be a funny Tick Tock and their brain doesn't really shut off but then it doesn't really allow you the space to like fully tap into the you know the ethos to really get the best material so he's very like okay this week I'm working on music next week I'm doing TED Talks dude that's it that is wow honestly I'm gonna I guarantee either the title of this episode or somewhere in the show notes that is going to be highlighted column because that is so important especially for the next generation of Music Makers and everybody that's watching and this is kind of the reason why Tom and I love doing this show because of um of things like that that I think are really important to keep top of mind about how to be present because otherwise you might you know open your phone and think that artists like swaco and you know other like viral influences are just constantly overlapping content and are like multitasking you know until they drop dead it's not true and I think there's a there's a way to like you like you mentioned I think that's really smart to know hey to make something good you really have to just submit to that and be in that flow State and understand that about yourself creatively so dude that's that's awesome I'm glad that you kind of unpacked that and painted that picture I think that's really interesting on that note my friend Mike Shinoda from Linkin Park is is really I've been working with him a lot lately and um he's a phenomenal producer and just a really insightful talent I was working with him this week and the way that he like sort of creates and edits himself and is allows himself the space and because he's worked with like you know he's done like three albums with like Rick Rubin and you know some really like literally and Jay-Z like literally some of the best of all time and you know picking up stuff from him is always such a a blessing for me because I'm just like I I get to look into not just like somebody who's talented and successful but like but like the people he's worked with he really absorbs it and and manifests it in a way and allows himself and the people around him to like create and doesn't put like the pressure on himself and some people would be like oh well he's you know he's successful so therefore he can do this and it's like no it's it's a chicken or the egg right you know like which one comes first and and I've just I feel like yeah you're going back to what you were talking about about like mentorship um yeah I would say mentorship is almost like an oversimplification it's just like being around people who inspire you is really what it is you know and being open to their ideas and um one thing I learned from him was this space that you allow yourself to create is almost as important as like the actual ideas that you're creating because you can come up with a million ideas like we're if if you're if you're talented and you have the gift then you're an endless well another friend of mine my friend Kevin Barn I was telling you about the countrywriter also said this and he was like you know I'm an endless well he's like I have always got hooks I've always got songs and Mike the other day you know Mike's been making records since he was you know a teenager he's been making records for several decades now and he's literally was like dude I'm a better songwriter now than I've ever been and I'm just like that's hard this is the guy who wrote In the End you know it's like right right you know I know you seriously that's how you think yeah because so many people are just like oh well the you you know we put like as a society put all this pressure on ourselves to get it done while we're young and like you know know but like what about the insightfulness that comes from wisdom with doing this for a long time and I think the big thing the takeaway from this is what you just said Casey is about like removing the pressure from yourself of like you know demanding that you are all of these things because when you do that you start to you and I'm guilty of it too you start looking at what other people's expectations of you are yeah and when you start worrying about other people's expectations I think that is like the poison that will completely derail your creativity because there's no way to be able to really access great inspiration when you're worried about like when you're like back of your head is worried about well what are my Tick Tock fans gonna like or what are my like you know it's my manager or my label gonna think like you just can't do it it's too much to think about that kind of reminded me of like I believe back in like the late 70s early 80s uh Eno made the oblique strategies card book to break from that like you're finding yourself not in this Flow State here or there and you just need to break that and to get back into it to like be that true endless will so I I love that you bring that up man yeah dude that's great and also yeah we'll uh we'll make sure to link to the to that for anybody that's not uh familiar with what we're talking about because it's a very cool resource um there's also I think a website that you can link to that'll just generate all of those prompts which is uh which is cool um but yeah I mean that's you know that's really it and it's almost like you know people talk about creativity as a muscle so column for you as a songwriter and you know you know producer executive producer whatever the role might be it I think you're you know you're talking about making sure and finding ways to leave that space to to Really zero in and give your full self to it I think it comes down to um in a way that it is a muscle and you know learning how to call upon that space you know in yourself but also making sure to schedule and provide that space for yourself is really is really the name of the game right that's how you get the best [ __ ] and that's how you keep getting you know quality stuff over and over because you only get better at finding and creating that space for yourself right that I think I mean that's Sage advice from Mike and some Heavy Hitters dude but I mean it's I have a feeling that's why you're out there making a [ __ ] that is getting that is that is really stretching um you know in terms of the reach it has globally man that's so I mean that's awesome thank you for sharing that especially it's very impactful very insightful I mean with all that being said uh I think that's actually kind of that might be a fantastic place to leave it because I mean in unless at some point I mean you're you're never you're not going to stop you are a well my friend as well so maybe we'll have to have you back for a part two in a future season to talk about another release yeah I'm sure you got a bunch of stuff on your calendar for 23 right um but uh but I do just you know because I'd almost love for anybody that's listening to that um you know that it's been kind of tracking this and hearing your trajectory and and how you work with an artist like suaco to kind of let that sit and let some of those um those gems really sink in because I think it was awesome man and we really appreciate your time for for unpacking it dude of course tell suaco he's got an open invite uh to drop in maybe for a part two we'll get uh his flip side of it um you know and his part of the process but we uh we wish you the best of luck uh have a have a really good uh end of the year man and we'll uh we'll keep in touch for sure enjoy that session thank you [Music] foreign [Music] to share this interview with everybody because Colin's story hones in on what eventually became the central thesis for this season for this group of 12 episodes and that is the idea of saying yes saying yes to the opportunities that present themselves to you the only way to move forward as a creative is by taking action and saying yes even if it's unorthodox even if it seems outlandish say yes say yes to the opportunities that scare you because that's usually an indicator of a space where you need to grow action will always Trump inaction as a musician as a producer as any kind of creative it's a serious Battlefield out there for attention for visibility and to try and make an impact with your art so a step even if it's a misstep will always lead you down a more productive path than taking no Step at all that's just the facts and just because you can't see how the dots might connect from one opportunity to another does not mean that they aren't there you just have to go out put yourself in the arena take the chances and say yes to the actions that will put you in front of the people that can help you grow as an individual in whatever Direction you're looking to grow and maybe even more importantly you might find events or people that are willing to challenge you in ways you didn't even know you needed to be challenged in order to reach your full potential and if you've made it this far with us we are so grateful that you took the chance on this show and we will catch you next week on