Gee Vaucher and Penny Rimbaud (Crass) : The John Robb interview

looking at it looks really fantastic big round of applause for [Applause] Penny yeah is there any lights for the hall it's good to see who you're talking to don't sure it is lights we the audience if you turn those around if you can reach you that might cause a b accident oh we have to start all get and can people at the backat hear me talking without a microphone can you hear Lou uh I just hate I don't like this things you spent all your life in the studio with them yeah mind I don't mind all right it's not that hard well it's a removal that's why I don't mind it know condom on on the language more a move without it only 10 people can hear you yeah so okay the book so how did why you a book I did the book because oh sorry um once a b finished I would say about eight years after we need put hand po so having done that I realized we didn't have so it thanks to maybe a lot people here um and of course um I said to myself i' do it and up did you have did you have any all a little bit yeah little but I mean a lot of it was really in the hands I think I was one of the big problems because I'm a very arive I like burning things and I had to screw things away yeah so anything that arrives now gets hidden somewhere in case I give it to someone or bur I wasn't great help I have to say I wasn't a great help during any of the project no stood by in Wonder rather wonder I'm sitting in the seet right now but so it's a book project an awward project [Music] uh the past is an aw project for me and I don't do past I'm not really I'm sort of it's hard enough dealing with it now that's good enough for me sort of thing so I mean I I mean I had huge respect for what d a beautiful piece of work but it's certainly something that I had to admit to not having being interested and not being very helpful but it's not a I mean it's not a Nostalgia I mean I think it was I think a lot of the handouts and writing and all stuff that's in there is still so relevant so it's not it's not as if you're back to something that I mean we I sort of changed my mind that we did a couple of these things at the horse hospital and it was a response of the people which was warm incredibly um and then I got the pointment I mean I really didn't get the point but then I saw how much joy actually it was bringing to people um then I thought yeah great project you have re-released lot the old records would you see that as a different context because it's music I think it's a matter of making good and the opportunity to remask us St um particularly the um 7 in uh taken up to 12 in which was the project of all the bans that we um worked with uh and that was very rewarding was at last people production here as they were in the studio because other so squashed on so is that it really was pretty unlistened especially by there so much obviously I think you know redoing them just you know remas just opened it all up and I think they sound fantastic much more like in a sense is a book similar to that you know a way of getting the you know the photographs the fers the posters you can really mix them you can actually see them and contextualize them well yeah I mean it was quite interesting I've forgotten so when people s you know they're very I think they're I still think they're very relevant and I think they're a great interest to the Next Generation you know and I think the Next Generation hope hope for the future so it's kind of like adding more to that having listened to the people that were around at the time and how much they from what we were doing and sharing I think it's um fantastic the Next Generation now running with it expressing it in their world and I think you think the fact that he actually is still really relevant quite frustrating would it be great if you just seen like this weird area for 40 years ago and the world is so good now but we need have to do this I yeah I mean I I still think even if you haven't you haven't changed anything the is still well I think we have changed not I mean um that generation is a generation that really are changing things the fact that that doesn't fit into the narrative is irrelevant um you know where are what's happening I hate that nothing's happening go out in the street guys and Y sort of playing music and having fun making something life that it wasn't just of depressing tale what by standard Med so um there wasn't anything particularly special about Christ or that here it's just part of a whole thing that goes on and on and on and will always go and it had gone on for a long time before Christ anyone like that from it's been happening and we continue to happen because basically we're creative beasts that's the one thing that humans have probably above any other animal is the sense of cre that's what gives us joy that's that's our deep sh that's our deep love and um that's unable AI won't destroy nothing can destroy that beautiful sense of Passage through Crea do you think the book is a reminder of us it's more than a reminder I think well from the reaction of people say yeah it's it's spurred them on to say something do something create something it's reminded them that there they have enormous untapped potential you know and we know that society and everything else it's always trying to take that potential away from you and guide you into one linear route in your life then that's not like you it's like if it's reminded people to say you know think outside go you know just just go somewhere else you know with your head you don't have to go with Society cure or School family whatever it is you know you have everyone here has enormous potential you know I think that's really what's going to guide us through ultimately this is the great thing about CR it was a very positive empowering message is this that was in the records and is that something trying to say in the book as well um no I just cated itally and let it speak so you didn't have any sense of the narrative before you started just basically is as logical as just doing in order no I didn't I didn't manipulate it in any when you do it give you sense of what class and Di house which ultimately is is your Mothership isn't it of the does it give you another sense of what that was I mean no I mean I realize where I live I realize you know who my friends are I realize you know what you know that we're all in this together if you like you know no it was pretty hard I just had enough we did you have like years when you detached for all that school yeah there was a few years I decided to do it so I had to it why why did you de to do it any specific reason well just to colate everything together really so people didn't have to ask keep the same question there a bit of a door closing as well I mean I feel now having yeah remastered just about everything that we did I I'm sure uh and that can't be better um and that's why I did the remastering in the first place in 2010 I started when we were stillo s and um I heard how better um but I don't think you can go further in that with that material so door Clos that's it you know and not to not to shut people out but say well this is the best we can do we were always attempting to do best we couldn't say any other way just rep you know I couldn't I couldn't make my words say it more clear you know it's just that's that's it enough you know otherwise we just be so I think the book has said it's closure kind of makes sense it ends on the book because another amazing about it wasn't just music was it it was the art the aesthetic the ideas it was a package right 360 package I mean everybody in this audience know this packing those records as an experience yeah I think it was very important because you know we don't all relate to creativ in the same way some people are much more music orientated orientated words you know so we tried to cover so it would speak to everybody in some way some people love the art you know the imy and L the music kind of goes all along so yeah it was trying our best in every creative way I think most people find difficult not both I think they all work together absolutely perfectly I think it's it's rare to get that simplity of ideas visuals music you know in a time which is like not that techy we talking about there no it's a kitchen table it's all it's kind of homade has a sophistication yeah I mean it's yeah it's a totally different when you look at the original aray 36 by 24 cover you know squares and sticking Bits of Paper on and doing bits I mean people can't believe it if you come from another age now you know it's kind of like how you that's what you do and I don't think it's any different now and that's the that's the joy of it if you want to make a cover and you want to make it it's all there need you really don't and you can stand that Afters after because obviously the printers want a f in there they don't want to let they can't handle it if they do it's going to cost an enormous amount of money so you have to make a f even though I don't work on the screen and I have to SC the P but it doesn't take away my creativity in studio so to me I think we were very lucky to be art store in the 60s early 60s when everything was done it wasn't even and so you learn the tray in a very you know hard work working way and I know I'm Christian bracket PR who does all our a lot of our Ty he trained with leg so he knows he knows the are so when he goes digital he's still thinking in that way which is why his typography is so absolutely beautiful everybody know really really beautiful lay to and that's a sort of the Enigma now you know sort of what's that about you just press the button and it's now it really isn't and so we I I mean I feel very lucky that we were at Art School in the days where every was H done and you you found new what that way and also you were actually designing top I mean that was one of the projects we did had to design an alphab um now you get CR on Bloody online which actually isn't which isn't actually the same as the one that we so so art school is it f the background it created practicality and also did create ideas and possibilities that fed into what CR became well the actually the circle around the singles was um I when Le G was doing a lot of booking and I was getting the sort of dog ends to doas and on one occasion I had to do something called the Blue Tomato so I did a blue tomato and then round it I put a ccle with stencil with the title and that's actually the origin of of how the one that came out for the 7in singles and that was really a rip off of American J John a lot of s one of the American and so that was a rip and yeah so in that space our school thing is different now but you you know I read lot about the 60s and art schools are a space where ideas could ferment I so not just the idea the practicality of the artwor in music coming out those spaces but the aesthetic and the possibilities of Arts with feeding into class you say the art schools was a direct line or not was definely direct line because the to in some way I me doic or so yeah all but all but one two all but two people in the band haven't been but one of those people could draw very well just a natural ability I was the atmosphere in the art schools in the' 60s the ones that that were revolutionary or no yeah because we started in 61 so and our school was for five years then and then the next for three years not like now now so yeah I mean 68 everything exped as we know in Paris Lon yeah great was sort of pop up Revolution certain a revolution St and that whole period anyway was everything was up to question in the 60s there wasn't a thing you said yeser until you said yeah I think you have to remember what it was like before the 60s because musically it was like I don't know every Ruby maray and people it's kind of like it was nothing really it was just still remnants of the war so kind of then things started to pick up obvious the elders came along and still Hy and everything ticked off in the Beatles Stones you know so it was B started and Theon when they were school there a sense of possibility was there optimism or or a questioning as well oh yeah absolutely not I think there a general sense of optimism right so much I women begin to really pick up for example and it was Unthinkable in the 50s you know suddenly in the 60s the whole day Community started coming out to a degree except except a whole rati start um everything that we now almost take for granted was actually up the question up up the debate and sometimes very far debate um but and we really thought then as we did that we were going to change the world then and you know and Par in a way put an it became too serious to the powers that be so let it down some they suceeded way happened you know go on struggling for the next front to and I think that front is forever there currently growing I think you have to remember the hippie here because the hippie actually user in questioning of yourself Health you know H cooking and God knows what how came from that whole hi R you know that and you could say that we were very influenced by that you know because suddenly you was thinking like oh what am I eting you know how why am I not treating myself here when I'm sick you know all of that came from from that whole Hipp scene you know and gr and ecology the building of their own homes you know shed somewhere a lot of it obviously didn't translate to Britain it's too small you know I can always remember the the long flowing T skirts you know which were dragon in the mud you went out not like didn't quite didn't quite work but I me a lot of that washed off on people here and as much as the you know the P said you know just tippies yeah we were but we took we took a lot from that and ran with it and used it our own way very important well it actually made sense in the book generation as well so in a way would you say you a reaction to to perceived failure of 68 or you just the last one of the last remnants last Crums of resistance what was coming in no not I I'm um my relationship with J has been the constant oh that's s where we go now almost we don't do it in that way by getting what we do um but G is absolutely tires in that as am I in very different ways but you know we really feed off of each other in that sense um that we're unbreakable um you know we don't believe this over at all uh and if we can't see any proof of that it doesn't matter at all because in the end it's it's up to you there's no authority to itself uh and to become that Authority not to just mimic the words but to look to that self and become that Authority because within that idea of self there is a deeper thing and that's called love and that is indestructible and so because actually the birthday statement I mean were you quite surprised that crass were picked up on by what 50 60y old kids it actually make big sense to kind of set out just to have some fun but to get together I mean I was still living in New York when the first you know I did um get some gigs together for them in New York but um and it was such great fun it's just time to come home and work together with I I think to pick up on that I mean young very young kids tell the truth well I can say without question so did we and that's why you know KS you get you know little 12 year olds I remember playing in Glasgow and there's a whole group of 12 13 year old Lads and they said where's Eve where's Eve you know I mean I could barely understand because the AC was so extreme and they rushed off to her this sort of upper middle class woman who sort of was and it was so beautiful to see absolute commun you know because we didn't piss around we weren't we weren't playing at games we didn't we weren't trying to be a ban we didn't believe in the idea of a b really um the idea was people getting together with people and that's what we did I mean our gigs were just Gatherings really it's a vehicle you know a vehicle to meet some people to up and down the country and we did tours you know the whole faning thing exploded and you could see every time we went back up north to the same places everybody come with their new magazines exchange you know it was just a big Gathering and and it was really important for us not to have you know somewhere behind the stage we'd always come off the front of the stage at the end of the G always and we always worked in an hour where we could sit with people because it wasn't easy like it you had a of imagery coming at you had black CL people this music the sound the words the images you know it would have been irres possible not to have been there to kind of answer some of the questions of the very young people who were maybe FR you know trying conf but it's not quite Ely you know the ideas were amazing you know the idea to take people on that trip was quite tripy you know the musically now crash was now 304 of course years later you know that some some great short Shar P things there some of brilliantly multi pieces of under music it can't all make sense to people which is I believe that people have much uh wider sort of taste this perceived into how far you could push the parameters of what was you know loose in turn P the side well I think the other thing is we never treat just idiots you know we we we from the start an intelligent that's how you treat them treat everybody with you know respect you know you may not quite understand what they're trying to say or do or show or understand the images but that's got nothing to do that you know it's just you throw it out there you you might understand it few years later or you get home or whatever doesn't really matter I mean I think the important thing is just you're trying to share something and it's there I think one of the I I I think I can honestly say that within the sort of rock and roll whatever Traditions were genuine I mean they weren't there Fortune they were there simply to share ideas and to create ideas um and I remember we we had a band called exit before which in some respects was more radical um dur chist it was severely God uh it was sort of pretty much um we turn up places set up and play and some people didn't even notice we were doing and other people thought it was D around and it was sort of gorilla tactics largely um but that came about because dous was running it was running pretty well a lot of people were turning up and actually Pete right the basis said to me one day yeah well it's all right for us is it what about the people outside you know because we were we were quite a comfortable little Community I mean I remember the Sonic gr with Organic tomatoes and thinking it was okay is and that that you know so so the next thing we did was actually he and did some hatl where they just turn up Lo to and do some weird thing on the green and that was the beginning of the performance thing which has a tradition um and then the band we sort of got a band together anyone could join it and anyone did we went down to Bright and I think there was St what called people players or whatever they were anyway was about 35 of us and there was a band which was changing all the time because other people wanted to get on and do it um so that so the origin you could say how we work sort of Grew From that this idea oh let's just go and do it anyone wants to draw they can and blah blah blah blah blah so actually was totally unconditional do something and then someone might suggest something or we might see something we just take Direction it's it's got no parameters it can't have any parameters because every situation is different you know and we're different and every day is different you know things are moving the world is moving so you go with it really otherwise you're stuck in this you know some people say why don't we doore there somewhere somewhere else you know and it's important for me to you know being you know Rec but it's kind of like it's it goes right you just run after it or you run with it or leave behind always changing that's the P art it's just basically Instinct whatever comes to your head and finish it off is that how you can operate no not really I mean like get Studio I Studio but I don't know looking at for a couple of days or shuffling my pains around and cold it just takes courage if you Haven doesn't happen all need is a splash blank canvas and then you can start when you start you sometimes you feel detached when you looking at it in your W where's the stuff coming it much more practical that it just out when it does I mean I meanly trying to say something I can't say that I always understand what done even look at the at it and maybe I understand it now I always thought that was B though that you were me ask what the hell is that all about CU it's like question throwing question Mars out well yeah it is you know I think I think that's the best work do that it made you stop think you know how how do you relate to it to understand but something draws you in doesn't it you know I have that looking at other people's stuff reading other people's words you know it draws you in some understand it somehow draws you in you get something from it eventually think that creativity arise when you get out of your own way and you get out oh it's Penny about to do something that's just not going to happen and I profoundly believe you get out of your own way and let it happen on its own I just recently working with uh honey ban um and she's been messed around right H through her life as an artist and she turned up to the studio last week I work in the first session I didn't know where the her was going I've got a fantastic Jazz pist in who I know can adapt to any sound and and work out things Eve came along to offer moral support and we just went on a journey together and it's so profound so beautiful because she was allowed to be who she is not who people want her to be not the sort of pop st of yester year I that sort of St and the tenderness the vulnerability and the very very very profound feminist voice there's lots of feminist voices around but they don't come over to me as particularly profound they're just sort of Mo how it would be better this is how it is better this and so that's what I know I look for I get out of my own way I persuade anyone who I'm working you to do the same and if that means I just do nothing for the first 10 hours of session fine let's get all of the [ __ ] out the way because behind all that that's where all the Bea is behind our ideas of our s how we want to present us the person we want to be it's all bu manipulation we don't want to really manipulate you just want to be needs and that's really hard really hard because lot of re know what they want to see or what they want to hear and it's hard to get way because up this is you know whatever you know it's kind of it's just really being Having the courage toe your heart and go doesn't matter if nobody else I've always worked I just to pick up on slight I mean I'd really worry if uh my stuff started taking off cuz Christ didn't you know there's this glorious myth that we were a big bad in the day we weren't maybe if we turned up at birmingh places like that but we were pretty small Stone um and it was really great it was I mean I remember doing a big in some sort of Tim Chapel in Wales and I don't know how many people there couldn't have been more than 50 and it was in the absolute middle and nowhere and it was such a beautiful experience um and so I remember I went to one of the early what do they call themselves Punk academics oh and I sat listening to these people who probably weren't there in the day and at the end of it I was about to say something and I thought I said recommend you stoping Tre me you fuing talking about you know we were working our asses off to play to 20 people in a sort of nen H somewhere I mean we did choose that we choose you know we chose to go to places nobody else would go you know they were they were all the the major city ones and we did some of those but I mean really we went we went into the backwards room where nobody some of them were just like little tiny chaples just local people I mean if if we' done that in birmingh you know you know obviously we have a few hundred but we we made a point of going to the people in all the places that nobody ever it was really really was there a specific reason for that well nobody no went there you know and why not you know it's kind of you want a big name in a big place interest and there was a conditional thing there people say from Peter Mo R out once and they said oh why didn't you come and do a big care and the reaction to all of them that happened almost all the time constantly the reaction was well you organize it will come along with you and that's how it works so they learned how to organize they learned how to operate they learn how to deal with all the hassles uh etc etc and they at the end of the took the takings for whatever they could be used for like a woman's Center or new printer and that wasn't I mean it was because we weren't a band we weren't a rock and roll band we were s of just a we wanted to make friends actually we wanted to make love you know so in the truest sense and I was going to say that about creativity I mean creativity is actually another word for love and if you don't feel love when you're being creative you're not being crezy and love is open and it's absolutely unconditional um it's not it's love and it takes very form have to be you know the big Arts [Music] be can be anything it doesn't have to be what we see as the creative arts there much much bigger than that I have a sort of distaste for doing this sort of thing to be honest because we're all together and I don't like being that's why I don't like using these that's why I don't like not being able to see people we did get the barri joking joking we're [Laughter] not just ridicul we are here so the book itself really captures an energy time was that something you conscious of as well when you were doing the very much um I think it came out more with bu detectives reissu DET which I think was a really fantastic it is a fantastic Testament young people at that time to say you know durs and 80s and you found that that press cutting when we actually released oh cuttings it's lit all [ __ ] load of rubbish [ __ ] all that sort of stuff and and now I don't know whether any did see the review oh it's the greatest document just of people's movement and that's a and you're never happy are you I I am actually I can be deeply deeply happy and that's when say like work in the Don and see or honey thing I'm just seeing the the possibility and persuading those possibilities out um allowing people to be what they are rather than what people want to make so the creativity is everything and everything else is kind of distraction yes well love is [Music] everything cre yeah uh yeah I mean making bread is sort of a huge Act of lovebe [Laughter] we were going to call it the an so um we got about 10 minutes left so I'm sure people out there got some questions so this is floor always over there can you can you shout see oh contct are you mean for the latest fundraiser for ref he contacted us and we didn't know who he was so I'm not sure could hear what he said so I think he he is one of the most famous DJs is that right in New York and um I didn't know who it was didn't know and he wanted to remix some of the craft so I wrote to my friend who's Big DJ in New York I said is this guy and he went I can't believe let say yes so yeah he made contact [Music] us how is that process you just send it was all put St St so that raed [Music] [Music] about so from that project alone from several sources no it's from that project why do they always living I don't know I didn't like that I always have to admit I always had a bit of an argument uh with that um and if you look at the the origins of it were that about cutting pH is it or something um do and um um yeah I never quite got it I mean they stle stole it all from us so we could possibly say that they do in that sense I can get the point yes they do and they actually owe us a dam site more than destroyed so much life just sort of Flash you side more an apology it doesn't quite SC no it was important to have contradictions in Cass as well you know like lyrics that everybody could get the head ground or ideas some of the collective people going into I think it's good thing to have any Creative Group Well I mean [Music] of the lines don't ask me m I only work here I mean that was the good bit so yeah it it was their first attempt become yeah I mean there was contradictions because you know I mean the class differences in class were absurd the age differences were absurd the gender differences were profound um profoundly operated on profound negative very um and so inevita um I mean I learned so much from St van G's Street s you know coming from my background I wasn't too good on the streets um and I think you know like my Savvy was having been trained to be sort of an admiral or politician or whatever public school boys in m to do um I could use that you know to to balance up so I mean we had such an extraordin if we were stopped by the police in those days it doesn't work anymore but just my accent sorry sir Steve got that been in the CL I mean that's how it worked um and I've always seen the privilege that I was given as being able to actually work effectively in that way to to actually oppose the very thing that I was T to be on its own game on its own rules and it works doesn't work so much now because I think I don't think there's a more classless society it's just I think theyve got saved the fact that you know some some guys from that place quite right yeah I think it's a strength to have that kind of line up different people and find a communality as well that takes yeah that takes a lot Z get space so one last question over there um yeah kind of f some pieces some of those photos iie um more or less yeah was quite mind blowing to find out but some of the work a lot of people said that we just had a show at the horse hosit for three weeks with all the original and the book April um a lot of I don't know I mean I I don't know why I ended up think that I think I think really part of it was to draw people into the subject some of us quite heavy to draw people in they would get very close and then they realize what they were looking at okay one more question Jamie ask about Jamie [Music] shows together you know we very [Music] okay so speaking of which you do the crosss yes what's next what's next in what you I'm asking the question am I you're asking the question no somebody ask what's next and I'm relaying the question yeah but I don't understand the question what's next for you for me for me scr um because we're reing a lot of the singles Rel with other bands there's three more and you know as a matter of scanning the old covers and getks and Tak off take them [Music] off yeah so that's the project we've been doing and then I'm get ready to do a show in New York in September launch um and and yeah that takes a lot of work I put to get a lot of stuff together and put a gallery [Music] put so what the performances with suffer this used to work with here but she's living in New York so uh no time you just get get up and do it yeah I mean I like working that I just did a and I got five players who haven't played together much if at all uh in the studio Eve was the only person she got the lyrics and my only instruction as producer was have fun and then we start it was a game an amazing result because people are listening are not I can do my here you know nothing's planned so people are being respectful people get out of the way from each other don't try and outdo this it's so non competitive incredbly Beau to see people working together the result are always not Lis um but like with prass I mean crass was unable so initially then suddenly langu music get the key it opens up although actually as well which is quite not something you think is it no I would catchy songs yeah somebody can write a tight little catchy box onass it's not ask you all the time well I helped a lot of the um that that format is so miserably simp it could be complex and simple that's great thing about music yeah I think look complex but simple of course okay well thanks to [Applause] p e