S2 EP27: CHRISTOPHER GOFF, A YEAR LATER

grab your coffee and join me NOA for a caffeinated conversation about [Music] life I'll be talking to people who have chosen to walk their own paths and just like me are creating a Life by Design I hope it will give you the inspiration you need to do exactly the same hey Christopher Goff good morning hello hello you got you got your decaf C with you this morning I do I do and you know I didn't go decaf even though you gave me all that nice advice about I mean you can do a double shot decaf I could but why Chris this is why do you really want to know no I don't I don't want to know please don't educate me I was putting on some perfume uh the other day and I had just gotten off a a a call with someone that was talking about you know Organics and how perfumes are like these endocrine interrupts and I was like yeah I know God it smells so good it's really hard to make change I think you know that's what we should talk about today the the challenges of really making the life changes that you and I talked about before and and everybody just as a reminder if if you haven't already go back to season one episode 25 our friend Chris Goff here is the sales comp guy and by the way I'm going to interrupt there is a fox walking through my front yard right now oh very cool it's not the first time I've seen her total Interruption my my editor will be like NOA but I had to tell you there's a fox yes squirrel moment okay everybody's getting used to me having this nice little ADHD State well I don't know if you've seen this on Instagram they have this it's like ACDC and it's and instead it's instead of it being ACDC they do ADHD and it was highway to squirrel um that's what it that's what it was and I thought hey you might like that sticker I need that sticker it is so me and I've never been diagnosed so I don't want to in any way imply that I know what I'm talking about there are lots of distractions in the world um and I feel like there are more coming so it's not an unusual thing that you respond to the distractions that are presented to you and sometimes the distraction for me is mindfulness like how could I not interrupt that and tell you that there's a fox in my front yard you know I actually agree with you I mean I remember we had a fox um for a while and it and for whatever reason that fox like followed us from time to time just very very curious we would go on a walk with the dog Gracie and and um and it would just be like very respectful in that like you know 30 yards away or something like that but it just very much like Curious and it was like a member of the family for a while like no joke so I absolutely agree yeah I mean we're all integrated and we're in we're in their neighborhood I mean they were probably here first so indeed indeed well I relistened to our episode before reconnecting today and I was telling you right before we started we did a nice job it was a great episode yeah I'm all about celebrating right so I'm I'm really proud of you and me and again that was only like you know four months into me doing the podcast and and sometimes I am my biggest critic and really tough on myself and trying to make changes in life you I want to talk about that today like how do we how have you been with your life by Design over the past year I mean this will probably air in the August time frame so it will be two ye or one year since we talked you had so much going on tell me a little bit about what you've been doing absolutely absolutely some things don't change plenty plenty going on um you know it's it's been interesting because I I I've thought about that recently as well so it feels like Prime Time on the ability to to cover uh the the topic at hand you know so what's interesting is is for those that aren't aware um I went through an an episode of significant weight loss um losing over 130 pounds you know and and in the last year and a half or so I've been pretty much the same place so the desire is to continue that progression downward but the stall as it might be called is also something that I've recognized as a needed learning cycle um May perhaps it's putting a good spin on something to be dissatisfied with but it's also something to recognize that that that that apparently is a place that I needed to sit for a specific period of time on this journey and the notion of change uh I kind of jokingly brought it up with somebody the other day I said for some reason I feel like I've learned amazing things things and then quit like somewhere lose it all like I forget everything that I've learned all of the things where I was like okay we're making really good progress Feeling Good Feeling the change being in a great mindset emotional framework then it disappears like what happened to it where did it go what what what was it that made me forget everything to then recognize I don't know how many of months later to be like wait why what what happened where did that go um okay apparently I needed I needed that phase for sure and Chris just as everybody knows so you were over 400 pounds at one point and you dropped a [ __ ] ton of wait and I'm just so impressed with your transformation but you also then said I still have this goal you know you wanted to get down under 200 and all this and I think it's profound that you're talking about this little stall yeah um you're not the only one stalling 2024 has been a tough year a lot of people actually are comparing it to 2020 massive Life Changes uh major planetary realignments eclipses I mean like all of the impact of of Mother Earth and and you know just a lot going on socially things being brought to the surface but the stall yeah I'm I am right there with you I want you to know when I relistened to our episode I was like oh my God such a good reminder because I feel like I'm kind of in a reset and and so this is good timing because I thought oh yeah I needed to be reminded of all those great things that you know Chris and I already know how to do we already know how to do this [ __ ] we know how to apply it we know how to observe ourselves so tell me more about what's been going on with the stall and your own self-reflection during that so I I would say that I'm I'm still still learning it and it may come out live as it relates to the the kind of needed um uh reflection I I through this phase I I feel like I uh shared with the world what it was that that um happened um in my journey right of of weight loss and at a certain shift there was also a openness and welcoming to the like okay let's get back out in the world and then go and experience all of the things that I don't think I really separated myself from let's let's say like um from a consumption perspective predominantly food right but there was like a pause you mean like a like you kind of held back until you were ready like right you know I'll do that win yeah I have that feel I get that I see and I think and I think diets diets have a tendency to to be problematic for that in that regard that if you if you go into it with a sentiment of I am I am creating a temporary deficiency that will then be something I can get back into or overcome or or then then or manage and control yeah yeah and if those and if you if you have it from that sentiment then it's it ends up being um unsuccessful uh because you have this sort of psychological need to overcome whatever it was that you perceived as a deficiency that you created right artificially and so I feel like I had a little bit of that but I didn't I I kind of wanted to let myself Simply Be and so that meant if I I can have anything I want at any point in time and I think very successfully that has been the case and in fact now that's been like two years and so I'm I'm living in a place that is that is a little heavier than I would like to be but I think I don't have the as much negativity associated with with with surrounding or what it is that that I live in in terms of my body I feel like I had a significant amount of disgruntled um um sentiment related to like the I I would sit and this is this is times where I remember being the over 400 pounds was was we H there was an episode where I um was um doing a meditation and one of the first things was um okay now now sort of sit comfortably and I genuinely felt all of this angst because I couldn't do the simple first thing I didn't feel comfortable and that sort of ruined that that whole sort of cycle but there was a recognition that goes into that that it's it's really the more of what you bring and so I feel like the learning was being able to be okay because every everything simply is it's the what we bring to it that is so much of the the problem hey it's me I'm the problem right that's really it like when it all comes down to it the world simply is everything around us is neither good nor bad but it's the you know thinking makes it so it's it's the what do we choose to show up as and I feel like that's probably the the learning that I have and I'm there's strength in that and then it goes away and then I need to like refind it it's kind of like finding it and and it disappearing again from time to time the disappearing reappearing act um that is the magic I think of [Music] change guess what y'all I published a book your life by design a coffee with NOOA self-care coaching Journal is now available on Amazon this interactive Journal begins and ends with powerful queries guiding you on a quest for the kind of Life by design you don't need a vacation from I've included an in-depth look at strategic self-care to empower you and hold you accountable to really getting to know your true self it's time to prioritize you use the link in the show notes to buy yours today so you're in this self-observation and you're judging the circumstance as good or bad and so you're it's using the I cannot I can't even sit comfortably oh my God I'm trying to do the freaking meditation Y and the first thing they ask me to do I can't even do it so you know you're talking about everybody everybody is in this self- disparagement stage at some point or throughout the day or often throughout the day and a lot of people tend to you know we have this negativity bias right that causes us to look for what's wrong to stay alive and stay safe absolutely but I there's so many thoughts I have right now about your description because the I think let's fast forward to the end that let's just fast forward for a second so the end here is in my perspective unconditional self-love unconditional self-love you know everybody write the word down unconditional what does that mean give me a second I'll write it down yeah write that down yeah hold on let me do that too unconditional there are no conditions in which I am required to love my body love myself there are no conditions can I be in love with me even when I'm 400 pounds and I can't sit comfortably and yes we can accept it but what I would let's play with this for a minute Chris it is separate from you oh this body causes me to feel uncomfortable damn it you know so it's still separate and and when we can it sounds like you in the stall it wasn't a stall a stall for what yeah in the in the time and space where you were no longer striving intentionally toward a goal and you gave yourself permission to sit and be right that was your definition of a stall when I gave myself permission to sit and be and exist what did I make that mean could I love myself unconditionally in that moment or did I always carry a story over here right behind my head here as I put my hand behind me that said okay well you can do this for a hot minute but I assume we're gonna need to get back up on the treadmill here I don't know what are you thinking I no I love how you I love how you um um categorize that because you're absolutely right it is the act of Simply being in a different moment right did have judgment attached to it right the that and that's where we I think we all get ourselves into problems right like hey you know what maybe actually doing nothing is perfectly okay um it might be it's okay to like watch TV or be a couch potato for a moment or a lifetime even if that hey it's whatever it is it just is and being simply being is okay there is nothing wrong with simply being and I think that that is a a challenge for for for some of us that are constantly expecting many many things from a productivity or output perspective to be okay with the act of not doing that's right the act of being we are not human doings we are human beings and what I really liked about our first conversation was all of the recommendations and and your your practices I mean I I'm we're not saying everybody to stop doing we're saying can you you some of the practices that youve put in place where uh especially during covid you were contacting two people a day you were reaching out to people you were reading self-help books you were you were trying to find the the gems in self-help and self-awareness and self-improvement and those are admirable and your way of being in that process was uh enthusiastic and curious and excited but sometimes we have to go through that process of enthusiasm and excitement and I've got this and I can do anything and I'm going to call all these people and I'm gonna make this happen and you know I'm talking to me too uh life by Design I'm I love mine and you can love yours too just do all these fun things and then I don't know about you but I I got burn out I got a little exhausted and I'd already gotten exhausted the first round of the first 20 years of living everybody else's expectations and then I thought well I'll live my expectations and you were doing the same you know okay I'm going to write these books and I'm going to make a difference and and I don't know about y'all but I I just want to watch some TV and eat pizza uh yeah right uh there is a lot to that I definitely I definitely started watching more television s box came back um I'm I'm kind of thinking this moment that is not edit edited out right no it's not edited out oh okay I'll send you the picture okay keep going what you say fox sighting once again I'll have to look up the spiritual meaning again okay go ahead is it a red fox or gray fox red fox nice oh yeah pretty um I I what I noticed is I I kind of needed to introduce more downtime and I did kind of put that as like more travel time uh and more um truly like nonworking non and and my wife and I started watching more television well what was the kicker like was there a moment was there a fatigue was there an emotion that came up more frequently than it had in the past that caused you to make this decision or did you just in retrospect recognize that you're you naturally went to this new way of being well I I feel like I naturally after having conversations about these types of things more and more my first earlier phase of Life uh was this constant need to have to produce something like that I brought no value if I wasn't doing there was this sort of back of Mind sentiment that was the case and I did that in everything like I I would do that from uh okay I got to be multi-focused I got to be doing whether that's work and a lot of it was work mind you but it was also like well even if I'm at the gym or something like well I got to be feeding my brain at the same time I can't just like listen to music like heaven forbid like or I just watch tele like television while I'm walking on the treadmill or something no no no no can't do that I got to do something else because that's not good enough and I know in the phases of the weight loss and in talking um because I have a a um um an acupuncturist so I tend to talk of very sort of Buddhist and philosophical sentiments with him because I because why not I I try to get in dig into that sort of thing and and there's that sentiment of when it comes down to it I was sort of like chasing value in some capacity to that that somehow I needed I needed to do these things in order to justify my existence and I do have this overarching sentiment that I with like to live a value a life where the world is greater because I existed in it and there be there be evidence of that that well extends beyond my temporary physical experience here right I do think that most of us have some of that and I do I do believe I've turned it down a little bit not that it doesn't exist right but I feel like the volume is is a little less loud uh and and perhaps it's also because I've given my myself some acknowledgement for the things that I have done yeah and I and I think that's a little bit better off and interestingly enough I feel like I'm doing a lot more things without it feeling like it is a burden on on that sort of life experience interestingly enough and I can I can fill you in on some of the other stuff that I've been do I've been doing in the last year well the natural I mean anyone with an underlying belief system that they are not enough yeah the natural tendency is to prove their worth throughout their time or become victim to that belief and totally totally the case yeah and I'm I'm right there with you you know uh you know hey Dad I got an A uh hey big brother look how much I made last year I remember interviewing my brother and telling him that story and I told him how much I made one year and I was so proud of it and he looked at me and he said Nikki if that's important to you then I'm happy for you and it was the first time anyone had ever said something like that to me and I remember how how disappointing feeling in the moment because you weren't conscious of it I wasn't conscious and I was looking for him to go wow you're so amazing look at you making all that money yep and so this is a really important topic in today's society um it's time for the shift and we've you and I've have been trying to shift it for a decade so but but we're trying to do it while we're doing it like we're we're running we're slog as I said to somebody the other day I feel like I'm slogging through the mud I'm just I'm trying to keep you know practicing all the things I've ever learned and and yet sometimes it still feels like I'm in the mud and I'm not quite where I thought I was going to be or where I want to be but the truth is being in the mud if you allow yourself to stick it out and just take it one slow muddy step at a time you will be that Lotus that blooms out of it and I think that's kind of the the intention of a life we come down here on this Earth a soul comes into a body I mean you picked that body you picked the body that was going to grow and shrink and grow and shrink and yes now you're recognizing it's not about the body it's about the heart and the soul and you're like growing and shrinking the heart and the Soul until maybe the soul expands to the point where you're blooming into this beautiful being that remembers that you were enough from the minute you began Your Existence yeah and this the journey is just to forget for a hot minute and then we remember it again so you and I are just remembering now you're you're absolutely right um you know the I think it's Wayne Wayne Dyer who says you know we're infinite beings having temporary physical experience and and that is an important thing for me to to try to remember that don't get caught up so much in the in the like very minimal uh physical limitations that we're feeling not that there are any right it's the self-induced ones that we now let's let's be clear there are human experiences that create emotional reactions and responses that are real I I mean you talked a little bit about you know flying on the airplane and and taking your vision into I would like to be comfortable and and the embarrassment of the um seat belt extender I was sitting next to a man the other day on an airplane and he was surprised that he needed that seat belt extender it was almost like he might not have been traveling for a while and he sat down next to me in the middle seat so he's already uncomfortable right he's a large man and he goes to put the seat belt and I see him p pull it all the way and he goes wow it it doesn't fit and and I felt your story I felt for him and I said I said oh she'll bring you seat Bel extender just we'll get her attention in a minute I mean like I'm the caregiver I'm like oh let me make this man feel like whatever no big deal dude yeah no no problem but I thought about you well there is and there is a significant amount of embarrassment that goes along with her and it is kind of public right and it is and and so I I I don't want to Discount people's life experiences but those are the opportunities to practice what you and I are talking about we can say oh whatever I mean I if if he's embarrassed I'm a human being over here not being not shaming him I'm not embarrassed for him I just cared for him like oh his body is different than mine let's help him be comfortable and I wanted to appease any potential shame embarrassment or discomfort that it was having obviously so if we can if we can do that for each other then why can't we do it for ourselves right right the uh the the this the more significant critic um challenge um that I like that phrase we we um we it's it's interesting because I always I always think about this I I have a I have a whiteboard over here that has a bunch of goals that I want to achieve for the year right and there's always like a well how can I be okay with the simply being and come find peace in in the the is right the the the isness of it all yes and and then at the same time be like I got a very aggressive goal sheet for the year right and the things that I want to accomplish and some of them I think are well justified in that the I want to bring these things into creation right and I so bringing them into existence into this into this un into this physical Universe I think is of of considerable value and and and kind of like living in that I think is is is a bit of a challenge to try to figure out the how to how to find that happy place uh in in the act of growth or expansion as well you know and the and the sort of natural I think discomfort in the Unseen um aspect that that is is part of our growth experience here well isn't it we have to come back to the emotion of it because we're either Contracting okay wait a fox again yes but he has climbed the he has climbed the tree fort he is up in the tree fort interesting I'm not kidding you okay so that's three that's three uhhuh all right y'all y'all know I'm I'm All About signs and [ __ ] okay so Contracting or expanding I let's bring it back to the body the body is a big topic for so many reasons between you and me so that big list of goals on the Whiteboard right when I think about that I think about all the things I want I know I should be doing could be doing absolutely said I was going to do and and then when I sometimes think well there's time I have all this time there's this space I I I should be writing the the compl the complimentary journal for the book like you did for your book right you know uh the workbook I should be I should should should and then yet my body I don't feel it I'm like I just don't I don't want to do it I'm not it feels forced you know and I'll go try I'll do a I'll do something and then I'm like H that just doesn't feel like flow but can remember times like when I wrote the journal I wrote the My Life by Design Journal I was like so excited and it was flow and and it work so well and I know you know the difference because you've been there too trying to get things accomplished so y isn't that the flow and the excitement and the enthusiasm in my body feels relaxed and excited isn't that when I'm supposed to create and yes we have work sometimes we have to do it because of deadlines and things like that but when it comes to our creation like especially entrepreneurs shouldn't we not try to force things if it doesn't feel right in our bodies what do you think I'm torn on this one um because I feel like there's a certain amount of I I need to introduce moments of discipline in order to unlock the channel of creativity right and some of that is I think it's Steven pressfield um sort of uh sort of sentiments and he's he's written a bunch of books for writers um and I think it's Legend of bager Vance is his most wellknown one and and you know there is these this sort of buildup of the this is exactly why for like a writer you kind of need to do the things every day and what you'll find is that there's this like barrier of of of push back right like of of disgruntled or aggression or whatever of the like I don't want to do these things and and then it seems like there's a a spot of like overcoming that and as soon as you get in the act of doing it gets easier but there is that wall of the it's a whole lot easier to not do it at all and I'm curious if that wall is actually put in place by us because of either fear or or concern about rejection or um putting ourselves in a point of vulnerability that like when it comes down to it it only is a is a wall that inhibits us because of this this other baggage that we carry carry forward of the fear and I know I think I might have shared that when I put the first book out where it was like um I didn't feel good about get getting out there because all of a sudden like [ __ ] got real like it was like vulnerability was like hi and it's like I don't feel good about this yes I created something great I should be happy everybody would say you should be happy right I'm not happy at all um now that's at least softened in over time but I also know I have a book that's gonna be coming out in August and and another book that's G to be coming out later in the fall and I have like a dozen books in my mind and sort of virtually written and all the sort of stuff it's all stuff that come out but I also know that from time to time this book that's coming out in August is one that's been working on for a year and a half and it's like it's been in like thick thick rough draft mode for a while and it's sad and then I I had kind of squirrel moments of the okay I'm gonna work on this one on this one so I have like four other ones that are like thoughts and moments right because for whatever reason I didn't feel like I and this I think this is me personally I think that I didn't feel that I was quite enough to be able to launch that next book for some reason I feel like it's a barrier that I've created and I think this is true with our physical stuff our Physical Realm too and I mean this from like a body perspective it's like there's that as that that fear so like in the gym right there's like the fear of being seen you know because we expect or desire ourselves to be like fully fluent in all of the things right before we even start right but at the same time pressure yeah right but at the same time it's not like we would we would say oh an INF infant is trying to walk we wouldn't like and they fall over we wouldn't like you know laugh at them and say get up dummy right like we wouldn't say something like that because we would expect that that is the process of the learning on that how to do something and it's and it's like different every time like every time we act it is something that is new in that moment and and so how would you know how to do it you've never done it before right right right like every book every book for me is is new like I I will I will pull my thoughts and previous writings to a certain point into the into the sentiment of what is used in the next book but it's not the same thing because my opinions have also evolved even unbeknownst to me they've evolved of course I don't even realize it well I like what you first said though I want to talk about how we are we are creating the the barrier because the wall to finishing the accomplishment if you can dissect that and go into the root cause of well why am why doesn't it feel good to write right now or why have I kept that in you know deep draft mode for so long right so that's journaling work that's self-reflection that's the self- dialogue that's the therapy dialogue that's the coaching dialogue what is what am I afraid of and you said it in the first interview you said well sometimes I was afraid of actually being successful I think Maryann Williamson are some somebody says that too our greatest fear is is actually being our best selves or something I just butchered that quote but I think I think there is something to the like showing showing up to the universe and being fearful of it being of you being sufficient right like I'm on the Shelf that's brainwashed I mean that's [ __ ] brainwashing that says that you weren't sufficient and you don't know enough and who do we think we are going out there starting podcast and writing books yeah you know I hear you man I I have that feeling when I relisten to our interview like I said I I love to celebrate but I was like damn that was good but I was surprised I I was like wow I was much better than I thought I was and and and every day you're much better than you give yourself credit for for sure and my friends tell me this too I am a really bad self-critic and I I never really saw that I didn't didn't see it but when I see it through other people's eyes yeah it helps me find more grace and compassion for myself and it sounds like you you have learned to do that for yourself over the last year um talk to me a little bit about these books that you're working on and and what's next in the career world and how that how this is influencing your career and I swear to God if that fox doesn't leave my front yard that's number four huh he hey how you doing he's right just in the driveway staring at me this is so fun the fox episode and no we're not on Fox Fox foxy lady foxy lady there we go um so yeah what are you working on and how has all this self-awareness influenced your career and are you feeling better because you published a whole bunch of books now I I see you out there all the time and I love your newsletter and everything just make makes me feel um like I have a solid resource like you are the expert so if you're in any way hesitating or still insecure you should set that aside as well is my point um uh yes so I I am doing uh let's see so I I think that was four books um thus far so I think when we when we last met I think it's two new ones y um I know I'll have two more this year um so the new the latest book um which should be coming out in August is hiring for sales and so it's it's a it's a very um clear guide on the whole process of of um interviewing uh recruiting onboarding uh sales professionals because I believe that you know revenue is the lifeblood of an organization and so most organizations have someone that's account for the pursuit of of Revenue and so the need to to be able to empower a leader that that is not necessarily accustomed to or comfortable with the process of pulling in a salesperson potentially for the first time or just irregularly right they just they don't do this on a normal basis and so leaders leaders can really gain from some benefit of just simply having like a handbook that can help help them with some how have you integrated though your personal self transformation and selfawareness like are you incorporating Consciousness into these books um perhaps unconsciously um yes perhaps um yeah I think that um I've had people do do the um read the advanced reader copy and they said it's like you're reading it I'm like so okay so that's good that's a good sign right that it's like if you're hearing me in your head say those things then yeah I think I think I have Incorporated myself into into into the book A lot of it a lot of it is is kind of like a it's guidance on hey these are things that you need to do but you know what you're going to be different you're going to be unique and and and this is this is the guidance I'm providing you and and it's more it's going to be more of like questions and do your homework then it is going to then is going to be do this thing because I tend to believe that that um most every organization is unique and different and it's it what is best for them is going to be unique to them at that moment in time and you you know like then they change you're talking about coaching you're coaching people because the goal is to help people help themselves it's not to be advised and and that's the that's what my the My Life by Design Journal is as well it is a collection of prompts that I send to my executive clients and I have sent over the last 15 years years that I pulled some of the very favorite ones some of the most powerful ones because if you can begin to have a dialogue with yourself and notice the uh most significant critic as you said but also what would the other phrase the opposite phrase be the most significant cheerleader right the most significant self leader if if you can really dissect that and say oh yeah well the critic would say and and there's value in the critic and and and especially in the world of of employ employees and you know corporate organizational design and yes of course revenue is the heart of any organization you've got there's no other point other than to make money and hopefully serve while you're doing it but otherwise why organizations coming together right so I think that you're right on with asking the questions what are some of the questions that you're still asking yourself about your field of expertise that keeps you intrigued and excited to grow yeah I think it's the kind of the prompt for some of my future writings as as well where it's it's like questions about um understanding and questions about um actual uh like for for sales compensation um the the act of of uh whether or not let's say salespeople are actually reading the document to is the language accessible because I think we get ourselves into this challenge related to uh legal ease versus Clarity and ideally we would we would have multiple like hey yeah we need a legal ease um but we also need something that helps people actually understand what it is that we're presumably trying to incentivize them to do right Clarity related to that and and I believe that there's this this this sort of happy place where we can combine this uh the clarity and purposeful work and and Alignment to being part of something greater than ourselves that can meet much of our desires of the value of work right so like we can get something out of the work that we do if we can do a a much better job of of aligning these these sort of core principles of of um well toal rewards candidly so I I think I think an interesting component is I I read um a book by Alfie con um called punished by rewards and he he's in a sort of post behaviorist world so post Skinner sort of sentiment that you know we have a real conflict here between encouraging people to act in a way in a long in the long run and that if by throwing money at people and and and giving them rewards what we tend to do is we break them we actually we actually create this environment that yeah in the short run people respond to rewards but in the long run they might in fact hate you for it or it may it may entirely remove the altruism associated with the action um and and those sorts of things I think are important to recognize that that there is be more to the the compensation side that I think is important and that this is where I try to feed that it's comp is important but it's not the most important thing no it's absolutely the the framework of the job the way people can interact the personal autonomy that they can maintain in the work etc etc like if we can connect them in a place then we reward them appropriately for the being happy in the work that they're doing rather than the let's throw a bunch of money at people in hopes that their coin operated enough to respond and I I feel like it's it's a a bit of order of operation but it also I I tend to think it throws a bit of a um a punch in the face to those those folks who really just see um salespeople as as uh as those um animated monkeys right right and I'm I know there's there's like that that word but I'm I'm I think of the the mechanical monkey right right right right animatrons yeah that's just not I I I just think that's that's a different sentiment and it's driven the wrong behaviors and corporations need to think about their metrics or any organization or even in your own family what are your values what are we holding ourselves accountable to from a day-to-day behavioral perspective you know why when we just throw money then we're driving behaviors you know this is why when you think about energy leadership and the seven levels of energy people are averaging out at about 3.2 on that seven point scale and 3.2 that level three energy is the rationalizer and the rationalizer says hey man I'm gonna win and I hope you win sincerely but I'm going to win and that means I will do anything I can to get around you work over you get to the outcome that oh by the way my company just told me I had to get to in order to be financially rewarded in order to keep my job so I can pay my mortgage and have this life by design that I so have gotten myself entangled in and if they don't go to that altruistic element and that Purpose Driven ultimately that salesperson they might win but they're likely to either numb out the rest of their life at work or at home or they will ultimately either quit or sabotage as a result of not actually finding the altruism and the purpose right um in the midst of the pain of their Endeavors as of money driven employee um it is it is an interesting sentiment of the the the sort of burnout through success right I am so very successful and I've done amazing things to the point that I am so unhappy that I've been there and and I I'll never forget crying into that glass of wine that my husband handed me and I remember thinking what the I I I used to say to myself well I guess this is the cost of success yeah and it is a cost of one definition of success right so what does success mean to me and we still got to keep coming back to these questions for ourselves and you know you're powerfully influencing individuals that are you know on the ground right you know they're in the trenches you even posted the other day a a bob Berg's work a list of you know the go-giver he wrote the book The goger absolutely and that part about really that authenticity and showing up unapologetically as yourself the challenge with most people who have been in systematic you know you know carrot and you know the carrot chasing the car what I'm not good with carrot the stick yeah the carrot the stick it those individuals ultimately burn out so the challenge is how do we get them back to that whole person and the go-giver Really talks about how do you do it in an alignment with you not just service for service's sake yeah I don't know thoughts about that how do we get them back to that whole person it is interesting um the the difficulty of separating the the person that you believe you're supposed to be versus the person you are and sort of the comfort of shedding that skin um is is a is a challenge um especially if if uh um we've been uh pretending for a very long time what what that what that means and who do you think you are now like who who do you think you are um you know I do I do really genuinely believe in the sort of like infinite creature who apparently selected um physical challenges that were needing to be um expressed or shared um in order to find uh purpose so I do believe my my longer term story and this is the part where where I am now is I got all these things related to the like my profession and I kind of feel like I got to I got to get those through um and produce those books first and then be able to share the story of like my physical journey and I've struggled personally with the yeah you lost like 130 pounds but you're still fat um part right like where it's like okay well what is that as a story to tell the people like oh yeah great yeah but you're still like you're not done right and I think that's the part where where the none of us ever are that makes me really want to tell you to stop talking like I just want to go stop just stop you're not you're not there's no such thing as being done exactly exactly I think I I think I appreciate that like we're all have all the time right that's funny um I just want to hug you and say you're enough you're enough man you're so enough well I I feel I feel like I I recognize that a bit more but I know that I've gone through struggles because I kind of want to be able to write a story from the Finish app like on the other side of the Finish Line what if that's not the story well that's that's the thing right like that's the thing I have another story now um that is related to the finding peace in in the journey right like in the stagnant middle you know what I mean there is something to that of the how to how to be okay with that and recognize that that is simply part of it it's it is it's it's what's needed for you to appreciate the other side it's like that uh what what what like Runners will say I don't know if that's like the 13th mile or something like that R High well it's it's the it's the phase in between that is that is very very difficult in recognizing that you've already made it because you're already doing it but you have a little bit in front of you but where do people quit most frequently where it's in that that sort of phase that's right in that discomfort in that uncomfortable I mean God this I could talk about this all day long this is just you know that I remember saying my grandmother was in the nursing home once uh when she was like in her late mid mid to late 90s and I remember saying to my dad oh my God she lived her whole life and she's just laying in that bed oh my God this is awful and he said well I hope she didn't live her whole life for that and I was like right it just was a a check again to say this is it this is the life you and me right here right now this is it we did it we're here you know yeah and I think it is the it is the sentiment that I don't have to show up in a particular way for anyone else I'm just here to have certain experiences but I but what I believe though is that my experiences are worth sharing for sure and your your experiences are always worth sharing in front of me and your experiences are worth sharing and so is the homeless guy on the corner his experience is worth sharing and the person who you know never left their house and and just watches TV and and drinks beer their experience is is worth sharing so I think if we can get there and we can give we can give ourselves a break I think the emotional state of this I want to talk about this real quick you mentioned this as well in the in the previous um interview because you talked about joining a a group to support you and you as a man having historically not been very emotive or articulating your emotions we're all emotive um but not demonstra ly sharing your ability to become vulnerable in that group setting I think that is powerful and I I want to share one thing personally but then I'd like you to talk more about that because I think especially our men today are they unless they're in a group setting I think they can't do it by themselves yeah and they and yes they can do it with a with a coach or with a therapist but I think they need each other and I think women have historically had each other and chosen each other and leveraged each other and we still do and it's hard for me actually to still leverage my girlfriends because I had so much masculine energy that I was like oh I have to do it by myself I got this I'm educated but my own emotions have been the bigger self reflective I mean if you and I want to go back to the word stagnant or stall which I still think we should X that but yeah I'm in a space now where I am not where I thought I was going to be and I'm a I've had to forgive myself for having put so much pressure on myself for thinking being at a certain state was going to be the end all Beall of my life's success like oh okay I've done this now I'm safe now and my history is about feeling safe feeling secure you know I'm protected yours might be who am I I'm not enough and blah blah blah yeah but the sitting in the vulnerability of those emotions and having them come up and flare up again in my life where I didn't think they were going to come back again I thought I'd already dealt with that [ __ ] right talk to me about your own vulnerability journey and are you still leveraging that group and H so much so interestingly enough that group has disbanded um the business itself no longer exists that that sort of supported that um there was an attempt to try to keep it going that has not been successful yet um so that is a that is a bit of a um uh Evolution right you know PE people come into your life for different seasons and that apparently served a season um and we'll see we'll see what may come in the next season um tune in um to the next season um yeah but uh u i i I think that it was very difficult for me to be someone who I I would say I I didn't grow up in an environment where we definitely spend a lot of time talking about our feelings multi-generationally in my opinion um and that's I don't think that's uncommon uh for a lot of for a lot of people and certainly for men in general there is I believe a sentiment of self value that is related and that's Pro whether that's societal or we carry it forward whatever um that we there is an expectation of of providing and showing up in a certain way that that was less emotive um it it as you said demoner relate but as as just like I don't show as many feelings because that is my partner's role in that particular case that that was like I'm the strong one right I got to show up a certain way um and it's expected right man up right all the ways you were raised to think that you had to be so how has that experience shifted you in your own emotional journey I I I feel like being able to talk about the things and allow myself to be vulnerable as it relates to just that I'm not where I want to be um you know in that Journey right like that these were things that I wanted to to change I wanted to um improve myself and it a lot a lot of it was related to my emotional resistance uh that you know I I feel like I had a strength in the mindset sentiment what I didn't have is a strength in the emotional um sentiment of of um um kind of like it's the combination of those t two things that really need need to get you to where you desire to be can you give an example of when you to tap in yeah yeah like as an example I can I can be I'm very um I would say relatively optimistic and I have this sentiment of possibility and everything so yeah there's there's CH there's um lots of opportunities to do these to do anything that you desire right um but then at the same time there's never enough money or there's never enough time or there's never enough of this and so there's a lack an emotional yes that deficiency the lack of abundance right this creates this sort of sentiment of what is it that I'm cre I'm creating as an environment for myself of the I believe I can achieve so I put all of my time and effort into the work and at the same time I'm always pulling to myself an emotion that I'm it's not enough and it's never enough and it'll never be enough because because I've created this emotional sentiment that that of of like this lack and this deficiency and how does that make you feel when you're in that how does that make you feel it feels like I'm working my ass off for nothing all the damn time that's that's that's it and then see you burn yourself out ultimately whether whether that is you like you said before you kind of choose to like exit the program which which for men we have an extremely high suicide rate that people aren't aware of um and that's it's a sad reality but that I think does stem from the feelings of Never Never Fully feeling like your contribution is sufficient like that you are enough as you are with not that without ever having to do anything it's simply being is sufficient and I think that there is some challenges that people are struggling with and it's not like it's new this is a long-term High suicide rate as an example and I think it is ultimately related to mental health and the emotional sentiments that are attached to that because I think when people talk about mental health I do believe it's mostly emotional well-being it is and and you know your description is the description of many you know and not just men but a lot and most men have been raised to say you have to be this in order to be worthy yeah you know my invitation as a coach and the work that I've done is to continue to dive deep into the the feelings and that makes me feel scared and that makes me feel sad and that makes me feel disappointed in myself and that makes me feel insecure and just really labeling emotions so even when I asked how does that make you feel you were like oh makes me feel frustrated that I can't do these things right so it was more about the I can't get it out I Can't Get Enough like so go even deeper into those layers and not that you asked me to give you that advice but I I think that will help with with when I can understand my emotional state then I can validate it and I can have more compassion for myself and more grace yeah and say well no wonder I feel that way right anyone having been raised the way I was raised with generation after generation of non- emoter and non-demonstrative love you know loveg giving how can I be love yeah I I think the exercise that I went into with that that group before um helped helped at least dabble in the in the world that I was not necessarily comfortable and certainly not um um fluent in um candidly and so I think that that that helped when we talk about this and I feel like I have it's softer because one of the things that I tried to remove was Stronger emotions in general um related to all of these things I mean that's that's where a lot of my and this is where I kind of went more of like down down a um my learnings were were in a lot of more Buddhist um Sentiments of trying trying to remove some of the why does it hurt so much right why am I putting so much energy into something that that creates that sort of reaction so I do feel like I and I I I said this before like turning down the volume a little bit I I have gone through more of a practice of trying to to remove my the strength of the emotions understand from from that now I suppose that might have turned down the volume on the positive as well but but before I never really had strong emotions either way so so it felt like that was an easier path for me to kind of be like okay I try to not overreact I try not to have the negative emotions to you know the the little things like well somebody cuts you off right it's the okay what am I what really happened here for me to have a reaction to this mean yeah or or do I need to really hold on to it because I think that's the other part is that's right there's value yeah it's it's the like it's okay if you have a reaction but does it need to be something that ruins your day because of it does it need to be something that why do you continue to like self flatulate simply because somebody else did something to you like why are you punishing yourself with this those that those sorts of things I think are some of the learnings that that I feel like I've I've taken from from those exercises of of really getting into the emotions and I think I think men can benefit from the like okay if what's acceptable masculine emotional responses are generally negative and so and I mean candidly like when we talk about cultural sentiments we kind of have these stereotypes and if we think about those they tend tend to be more violent and over and and bigger angry that sort of thing but it's also like but why would you why would we want to penalize ourselves in a prolonged fashion for something that might be like like like difficult or or violent or or something like that it's definitely a how do we how do we tone it back how do we soften those those reactions if we can't do them in the immediate how can we do it so that you don't hold on to that that's right I like to say it's not that we go there it's how long do we stay there and is it serving us right so is it serving me to be angry right now is just getting me what I want in this interaction with the guy that how does it help yeah how is this how is my anger towards that guy that cut me off helping anybody it's only creating cortisol in my body and sending you know like an epip pin shot of stress hormones throughout my entire system which will ultimately create dis ease right disease so I I hear you that was really actually quite profound uh about talking about help helping men who have historically been uh encouraged or validated for their extremes of negative emotion to then learn how to uh tamper or manage their emotional um pendulum and giving them at the same time not only re reigning in that extreme of maybe anger or frustration or negativity but giving them access to uh sadness and love and um tenderness to an ex to on the other end of this spectrum um I I think you're you're talking about the first step if I can become aware of my emotion yeah then I can decide how I want that energy to move me so energy in motion is an emotion and we are all energy so how would I like to take that energetic motion that's coming up through my body um and how would I like to leverage that in order to best serve me in this moment and I would just invite those listening male or female to become friends with your emotion and just start having that conversation what you know it is it is an interesting um it is an interesting uh aspect I think to to investigate is is the um opportunity recognize that an emotion may occur but it doesn't it doesn't Define you it simply happened and recognize that okay give me a moment and I think for a lot of people it's the finding a couple of those tricks right like give me a moment I need to get this out so that I can move Beyond it and and recognize that I can control it I can recognize it or I can sort of take a step you know from the side and say Here's here's what it is that is happening and how can I grow from this how can I learn from this how can I recognize that this is maybe not the person I want to show up as but it's but it's remove it remove that that that that is somehow you versus simply an episode of a reaction yeah it's your autonomic nervous system you you are literally physically sometimes out of control of that and once you begin to make friends with that version of your inside your body you know the cellular memory then it's a lot easier to turn a reaction into a response um and you know you're right can I look at it from the side you know can I stop and observe it yeah and U Can I Be Kind to myself if I showed up in a way I didn't like can I be okay can I validate myself hey anybody who made it mean that would have shown up yelling right and for and for men I think it's difficult to say you know like let's let's talk about something that happened that you didn't you recognize now you didn't care for right let's talk about like last time you yelled at your kids or something like that is that how you want them to Remember You is that how you want to be seen is that how you um do you think that that was fair do you think that was an appropriate reaction so let's take a moment and and just investigate that and it will give you enough of a a pause the next time this would be to occur but it's not intended to be critical it's simply an awareness I think that's a big that's a big part of it of the let's start with simply simple attention or aware Wess of what is without trying to change it without trying to be critical I feel like that's where we we start and then we can build build on that after there is a Consciousness in place of of the of what's going on it's all about Consciousness and you just described the acronym that I like to use which is stop oh my God the fox came back there's the fox that's number five that will be number five thex loves this will be like this will be like a drinking game now ni be like every time you see Fox I'd like you to drink caffeine last time it was every time we said the word Consciousness okay so the acronym I want to share with everybody and I've shared it before but I'll share it again in case you never heard it which is to stop take a big deep breath you're coming into the moment of what is like you said observe who am I in this moment so we wear a dozen hats at a time just pick one who am I in this moment understand what matters most to me with that hat on and then live the Legacy I want to leave behind so then my behavior I then am a conscious choice to them behave in an alignment to those values to those standards Y and that's stop observe understand and live Soulful living is mindful living and that's that's what you described i i i channeled that a long time ago wrote a speech about like a presentation about it and I remember calling home and saying I'm gonna be late I'm I'm writing this I can't stop writing this and I had never even looked up the term mindfulness until that night this was 14 years ago sitting in my first office after I'd quit all scripts and M and I was sitting there and I I Googled mindfulness after I wrote the presentation and I got like a billion hits right and I was like oh I'm already talking about mindfulness and I didn't even realize it right so I knew that I was channeling something you know something that needed to be reminded you were a poet you didn't even know it type type of thing right like you it is interesting to how sometimes we think these things and like well that was awesome and then you realize that apparently there's like a billion other people who have come to this point of understanding as well which which is good because you came to it independently and and so did so many of those people but it's also kind of funny because you're like oh well this isn't like novel and New in any form or fashion I don't think anything is I think we're all just pulling it from the collective Consciousness and then we're just like our version though and I I think this will be a nice way to put a bow on our conversation because our version of what may be the exact same [ __ ] everybody else is talking about is unique yeah and that my friend is what makes you so worthy and so enough and so powerful and I'm so grateful that you have spent time with me and are on my journey with me as a friend and a colleague you know I can't wait for everybody to to read your books and share them with their HR leaders as I said the first episode don't forget to share this content what do you want to celebrate the most about your life by Design now a year later I would I would say that a the thing that I probably want to celebrate the most is my time with um my wife and and pup um the importance yeah the importance of that in my life that I feel like I neglected for a good chunk of my working days and that the priority shift of what is really valuable is the relationship you end up having with the folks that you surround yourself with and you're able to more intentionally do that in this lifestyle that you've designed now and it sounds like that's been a lot more rewarding for you for sure absolutely so what do you want to celebrate most about you before we hang up my favorite question H that's an excellent question I I I what I want to celebrate you know this is the part where it's like self- judgment um comes up right can't help can't can't help that but but the um I would say it's the it is the opportunities that that are available to me to um make make the most of this physical experience and be able to share it with others I spend rewrite that reframe it what is that about you that you're celebrating that's an opportunity that's external from you and your ability to access yeah I would say it's it's the awareness of of of that and the appreciation for what I may consider like a stall or a Slowdown and it's it's the this is the lesson that I have in front of me that I what I want to really shift to is celebrate this as a thing that is vital and necessary in order for me to continue down the the the paths that I desire that all of these things are presented as opportunities and lessons and that's that's what I want to I want to be able to be more comfortable over time and so this is the part where I'm Desiring to celebrate the like this is there's a lesson in here there's an opportunity in here and and recognize that like you know ideally like a Buddhist monk right where it's like hm why is this here right yes like to get to that point but I but I want to I want to emphasize the celebrating celebrating those sorts of what I might perceive as obstacles at a moment in time I celebrate your conscious awareness also because that's what you're saying yes you know your ability to pause even if it comes with all the historic judgment and the goods and the bads and the fears and the uncertainties and the doubts your ability to pause is a superpower and that reflection is something you have fostered and learned and it is a skill that can become the superpower to creating your life by Design so I celebrate that with you and thank you I am honored to be on this podcast and offer these opportunities to talk so let's do it again in a year about absolutely absolutely thank you so very much I appreciate it you're such an amazing person to uh kind of give me this opportunity to talk and I appreciate the double shot although I have to say we didn't drink anywhere near enough coffee I could definitely use a refill I know I I I'm on my second so you do not want me to get a refill I'll start chasing the fox down out in the yard so I I think I'm probably done for the day thank you my friend I'll talk to you again [Music] soon thanks for joining us for a caffeinated conversation subscribe to coffee with NOOA for more stories from people living a life by design you can also find inspiration on Instagram just follow coffee withth ncoa and check out our website coffee withth noco.com and that's ncoa Nia we look forward to talking with you soon and enjoy your coffee between now and then