EXCLUSIVE | Hibernian director on transfers, manager sackings, finances, women’s team, future & more

if you're in the mind of haban fan and you own the club with your family what do you think the three main priorities are for haban fans I think firstly we need to the football the football needs to improve we we we know that it hasn't been good enough the last couple years uh but we feel with the current structure now that we're in a good place moving forward um I think massively is the the community aspect of this club is so important and you know now with us bringing the Community Foundation in house and and the great work that they're doing I think is a a great tool and then thirdly is the the fans you know the doing the uh the northand here the rail seating we want to create an atmosphere that fans are passionate about coming to you mentioned the football to start with I think everyone would agree it is all about the football at the end of the day you said it hasn't been as good as you hoped why do you think that is I think just down to the inconsistencies um down at the on the footballing side of the the business we have have had way too much change down at HTC I think a lot of lessons have been learned through those those mistakes and we feel now with the current structure we're in a good place why do you think you made those mistakes I think we tried to when we came in and with my father and I we tried to have a a different way of thinking a different way of recruitment um a different structure than than was in place I think we got that that wrong and now through those lessons it's gotten us to a point where you know having someone like Mali with his Scottish experience and someone with Dave who knows the club inside and out and his Scottish experience was the direction we needed to get back to so you're saying you wanted to change it and maybe you saw that from the outside but do you feel you didn't get the balance right there then I think I think that accurate I think we wanted to try to shift the the direction in terms of the recruitment the type of players um but I think as the years have gone down and the more you learn about Scottish Football it's very unique um so we need to have a a Scottish experience core that then can be kind of filled in with with certain type of players back in October 2021 you were appointed head of recruitment what did that role entail yeah so at the time we removed the current sporting director and we felt it was a good time to get a full assessment of the football department so my role was to oversee the process of how we found our targets and then report that to the manager some would say what made you the best person for that job why were you qualified for that job I think at the time from a process standpoint we felt with us being new to to the league and to the club that it was the appropriate time I think on reflection you know that was a mistake and it's it's something we've learned massively from there wasn't any big announcement that you were in that that job was there a kind of trepidation because you were the then owner's son that by giving you that position it would look a bit like nepotism then and and that was something that you were worried about but ultimately maybe in hindsight looked like a lack of transparency I think the lack of transparency yes I think that that was a mistake on our part I think we needed to communicate that better and be more specific as to what my role was tell us about your experience then uh in Talent identification and recruitment it's something that over the last few years and even before we bought hibs that I I was studying you know took courses and and got um a degree from in Talent ID but it's something I've always been been across and had a passion for do you feel that was enough coming into the role in hindsight now no in hindsight I I think you know we would have done things differently um but through those lessons um those mistakes a lot of lessons have been learned and we feel that we're now in a good position due to that you said the recruitment or you hinted that it hadn't been good enough what gives you the confidence know that it will be good good enough I think going back to the staff that we have in place now with Maly leading that up we feel the department is very strong and has great resources to to improve and I think we saw some of that in the Summer's window with the type of players we brought in the argument would be that if you were making the same mistake in recruitment and it's the same Collective then you have to change a collective you have to look at what staff are doing and make it better or make changes is is that something you have done yeah we have so you know with Maly being in place David Marshall in post uh two new analysts in post we have three new Scouts working for the club we also have you know the Black Knight who can help us from a best practice and and other resources for recruitment how much are you still involved with recruitment I just oversee I support Mali and Dave in any way that they that they need um so there's always constant dialogue and communication in terms of the direction we want to go but ultimately I'm I'm there to support them as much as I can in terms of head of recruitment was that with that job a lot bigger than you thought you needed more help you should have asked for more help yeah I I I believe so I believe you know at the time um with more support and structure around uh that would have been helpful but yeah yes I I do agree that the timing of that was not correct tell us what the player trading model is at hibs then yeah so I think you know you've seen with a couple of the players we brought in we we're trying to buy younger players from different markets I think you know that has shifted a little with the likes of Kieran Bowe coming in but even to you know pick out is someone like Elias melkerson is someone who we took a chance on you know at 18 years old didn't work for him at the club but he went out and got a great loan and the club was able to make a great sale on that do you feel that you need to use or work that model better yeah I think we can always look to to improve in that space I think as as as we kind of put the new structure in place with Mali that there there can be a re kind of reset in that space But we feel our player trading model has been successful over the last couple years and we can always improve in that space Mal's been quoted to say he said to me here at East Road last month about so many players out of contract I think it was 12 or 15 something like that at the end of the season and that will help alleviate some issues in terms of the size of the squad and wages paid uh at the end of the season but that would suggest then that the player trade model is not working as well because you can't get rid of those players and they're still taking a wage out of the club is that a fair criticism I think that is a fair criticism we know we know the squad is far too bloated and and that's down to the inconsistencies on on the manager front so we we know Maly and and Dave came in with a bloated Squad but we we knew this summer was big to posess uh position us for next summer with so many players going coming out of contract how much of an issue is that causing for say a manager to have to manage so many players that are still there but don't really have a chance of playing and also on the wage Bill too yeah we we know the the wage bill is inflated at at this time and it's something that my family is committed to we're committed to to that overspend we know we have a a one-year bloated Squad and next year with over 15 out of contract it it allows almost a reset next summer that would suggest this is a transitional season though and I don't think hibs fans want to hear that is that the case no absolutely not we there's our targets are still very much in place and Dave knows that but we also know that we need to give Dave support and time to to build this this squad correctly how would you rate the state of Hibernian finances I think on the business side the club is in an excellent position we we've seen significant growth on that side um obviously there's an overspend at the moment because we're chasing football success and with all the turnover the last couple years you know we're we're needing to chase that but as a family that's something that we're committed to to to get the footballing side right because we do believe once that that happens that the club will be in a very stable position you mentioned an increase in turnover always very positive how have you managed to do that I think you know with the team uh at Easter road with Ben and Murray and the rest of the guys driving driving the commercial Partnerships we're up over 400% on that the the hospitality space the income that's that has brought so I think from a business side the club is is in a massively better place economically in the UK and and in the world times are are tough so how big a positive is that that you've been able to to increase it so much yeah I think it's huge and it gives us the the platform for when we do get the football right that the club would be very sustainable Staffing cost I think 10.1 million in the last set of accounts wages to turnover ratio was 81% what's your assessment on that yeah I think we we know that's too high at this time but you know through all these this growth here we've needed to to bring in more staff to to to drive that forward when you look at HEBs finishing third in 2021 they got to a Scottish Cup Final Staffing costs were only 6.6 million it look it looks on paper as if HS are pushing the boat out but actually certainly on the field they're doing worse is that a fair assessment yeah I think that is fair and it goes back to you know the the inconsistency that that we have put in place here that there's been too much turnover and too much change um and we're chasing that success and we we know now with the current structure that with Mali and Dave that they need time to build this properly could you do better with a lower cost base though you say you're chasing in it but could could you still do better but not spending as much not chasing it yeah I think there is an element of that we we know next summer with so many players out of contract that we're going to be able to kind of get everything back in a more balanced place is the current cost base sustainable no at this moment it currently isn't but you know as a family we're we're committed to that overspend but we do feel going into next year and years to come that the club can be in a great position to be very sustainable you've gone from eighth to to fifth but then now you're you back eighth again last season how much of a hit financially do you expect to take in the next set of a accounts yeah so I won't go into specific numbers but at this time it is something we're committed to and last season was a massive disappointment we we didn't hit our objectives um you know we felt the season prior to the fifth place was a good season we were getting back on track and heading in the right direction so you know last year was a massive failure for us should the money you spend not guarantee your top six football in the Scottish Premiership I I would like to think so but you know it's football and there's so many variables to that but we we do feel that you know we have massively supported Dave and Mali to to build the best Squad possible this summer are hibs running a speculate to accumulate model because you said you were chasing it earlier is is that something you're doing no I think we we know there's been some mistakes so we know we need to help get through this period of time CU we do have this bloated Squad so we felt for this year that we needed to keep pushing to to support Maly and Dave and give them the best chance it does mean that you have to take the hit then if you're bolstering spending and it it is incumbent on your family to do that is that something you've been willing to do is that a difficult decision when if you are trying to chase it in your words that you have to also make sure that you're going to back it as well when it doesn't work yeah absolutely and it's something you know through through many discussions with my family over the last you know 18 months is that we're fully committed to this is this something we're fully behind to to get right how big an issue has stability been in the Dugout for her burnian football club yeah I think as I've alluded to is that you know that's been a massive problem for us you know it's hard to build something when you're constantly changing um so we do feel now you know we need to to put a structure in place and time to Dave and Maly how active were you in terms of those appointments that I was a part of the process you know it was myself and and the rest of the board were a part of that process do you think the problems been the manager hasn't been able to fit into the Hibernian football club structure or maybe Hibernian haven't been able to bend to the managers enough to allow them enough leeway to succeed I think there probably bit a bit bit of both but you know depending on the manager but you know a lot of lessons have been learned and you know having that senior figure like Maly down at that HTC is going to be a massive benefit that I think that's something we've lacked over the last couple years under you know young managers at the time that we didn't have that senior footballing experience down at HTC should you have got rid of Jack Ross in the end then given he finished third first time since 2005 Scottish Cup Final before he left he got hibs to League Cup Final do you think now looking back that might have been the wrong decision yeah I think as as my dad you know came out and said in his interview that that was a mistake and and I view it the same way it's I think at that time it was a bit knee-jerk reaction and you know lessons have been learned from then and along the way since then I know it's tough for fans to to realize that but there has been massive lessons learned throughout that time is it a case of you've had to make those mistakes to realize or should you have wised up earlier I I think yeah I could always wise up a bit earlier that's something you know not hiding from the fact that that we haven't gotten it correct uh along the way but we do feel through the ups and downs over the last few years that we're in a good position I think some of the worrying things would be that when Shawn Maloney and Nick Montgomery come in not at the start of a season and both of them left before the end of the season that would suggest that the board or yourself or the ownership weren't even confident in backing your own decisions are you putting them in place is that is that the case yeah I think that there's elements of that it's definitely something you know we felt that we made right decisions at the time and as months go by on and as you start to work dayto day with with people that you realize you know maybe this isn't the direction we want to be heading how much does this come at a cost this constant turnover of managers not only compensation potentially for them but that constant then cycle it's a vicious circle have seemed to be in with players managers at the minute yeah right yeah absolutely I think you know that's why you're seeing the overspend that's why you're seeing the the counts the way they are is you know it's not cheap to to change staff and and with that comes the bloated Squad so I think it's all compounded effect but we do feel that we're now with the structure in place that it's in a good position you have a partnership you have the Black Knights when did you feel the need to to kind of reach out and decide you wanted a partnership at this club yeah so I think my dad it's something my dad and my family had always discussed a lot you know at some point we would look to bring in a you know a partner that can help improve us you know financially but also best practices and a network that we could work with so it was always something that was in in the plans and obviously after the passing of my father there was many approaches by many different groups and individuals but we always felt that you know through those discussions that black knight presented a great opportunity for us what are the potential options that you have cuz I I do remember listening to I think B canell at the AGM media conference afterwards saying that that wasn't the only option on the table yeah there was many options and different levels of options you know people had approached about taking over the club and things like that and that was something that we never entertained but from a minority shareholding standpoint that there was there was a few options that were considered if a Buran football club could benefit was there not other options where you could have relinquish that majority control or was that always at the Forefront you wanted to make sure you were still in control yeah it was always the you know that was always the plan my my father uh wanted and you know as a family we want want to lead this club we feel that you know as caretakers for this club that we can continue to drive it forward like we like we have planned in terms of some of the other options you knock back do you think that they will rear their head in Scottish football going forward is there a could you lift to regret some of those decisions or do you feel you've got the right partnership no I I think we we're we're happy with where we are with Black Knight um and we we feel that there's going to be many benefits for years to come and you don't worry that the other other options might come back and show what they could do with other clubs yeah you know that might happen but it's ultimately you know it's about hibs and and growing hibs to to be the best version of itself how does it work on a week toe basis though that relationship with with the Black Knights yeah so we're in constant communication they've hired a new president of Black Knight T Tim Bes pachenko who's now come in you know a little over a month ago so those conversations are happening on a regular basis Maly is in direct contact with him almost daily so you know the the partnership and the network uh of Black Knight is in the early stages and you know they're's going to take time to to build that network but you know the the groundworks are being put in now we noticed Tim here at the Celtic game back in August what did he make of the setup you have and what was he was he just here for that game or did he have an overview while he was here no you know we we took him around the club we you know he met with different departments and he was very Hands-On while here and it it was great having him here and you know off the back of that there's been great dialogue since then is it a difficult balance because they have invested in the club but you have the majority shareholding to take the best practice but also make sure that you do what's right for the club and not for a minority owner or a minority share I think ultimately you know as as caretakers for the club me and my family always have the club's best interest at heart and when we make these decisions it's always with hibs on at the front of our minds Bill Foley said to the BBC back in the summer if the ownership group if the other ownership group listens to us they will do better so far they haven't been listening to our input I believe they will listen to our input now what did he mean by that I think obviously you know well reported on the the hiring of our our manager and sporting director um you know Black Knight was very involved in that process rout um you know it was a very thorough process but when it came down to it you know the me the family and the board felt it was in the best interest to to make the appointments that we did does that go back to proving that you do have that autonomy if anyone was ever worried yeah I think I think that does show that I think ultimately it's always the hibs first is that something that you had to mend Bridges there in terms of what Bill Foley said or what discussions have you had with him since then personally yeah there's there's been discussion since then and the relationship is in a good place we're in constant communication with the guys at Bournemouth with Ryan cwell as well and now with Tim so the dialogue's always there and and you know we see best practices coming with Tim coming up there's going to be certain people from boritz departments coming up to work with our guys so there's things ongoing in the backgrounds yeah the W would be that this is a relationship that's that's kind of torn a bit already after 6 months and hibs didn't sign any players from any other club in the network in the transfer window are people reading too much into both yeah I think you know we we looked at the network and there were was players lined up from the network but you know injuries happen these sort of things come up so it was kind of um out of our power a bit in terms of you know we wouldd love to bring in players from the network but it just didn't work out that way this summer what would your message to those that are disaffected at the minute that are maybe a bit apathetic about hibs a bit disappointed what do you say to them to to give them encouragement going forward yeah I think you know through through the ups and downs of the last few years that a lot of lessons have been learned and we we've grown the club massively on the business side we know it hasn't been good enough on the football uh but we feel with the structure now and and Dave leading the guys that you know we can get this thing going and we'll be in a great place when that does happen can you look I don't know five years into the future what what would you like to see for heran football club I think is competing at the top end of the pitch and you know being in European competitions I think that that is something this club desperately needs to achieve and you know with that would be would bring much joy your mom said at the AGM that the commitment is absolute is that something just now that you have a long-term plan for the family committed to this football club yeah our family's very committed to this is something we care deeply about and we have long-term ambitions but