Telegram CEO Durov Arrest: What happened?

Introduction send a photo of their penis for $2,500 they rejected no I want to die maybe let's call them e gandal eand e gandal yes hello and welcome back to the Cyber News weekly podcast this week we've got Al-Anon Data Breach: A Deep Dive brand new research from our in-house research team about the not so Anonymous Al Anon a platform to help those impacted by addiction a few days ago paval durov was arrested in France after a criminal investigation into telegram we will talk a little bit more about his arrest and what that might mean for telegram scammy psychics are all over social media as frauders are imitating popular online psychics to extort their victims and one hacker came up with a foolproof plan to get out of playing paying child support he legally died and now faces years behind bars joined with me this week are my colleagues Gus hello and yurita hi hello so a great concept which I didn't know existed before me neither no no uh where people can freely discuss how alcoholism has impacted their lives but it's different from AA right like it's not necessarily about you struggling with your addictions it's about other people struggling with other people's addictions right well in a way it's also about you struggling with your addiction meaning relationship to that person who's probably close to you and affects your life right uh having addiction so you know whether it's your like parents uh a spouse anyone else uh like a friend who are your close whatever right and yeah this is a support group it functions in nearly every country so that this is a huge organization right and people just uh gather together and talk about the problems that they experience you know having an alcoholic let's say uh spouse and they their goal is to learn live their lives you know without uh sacrificing themselves help helping that alcoholic uh you know kind of uh deal with with their own lives so you know it's a very very sensitive group group uh obviously you know the same as Anonymous alcoholics are and uh because it's uh sensitive and also uh probably uh there's some stigma around it people want to stay Anonymous as you know uh it's name indicates right and so this organization alanon uh it accidentally but exposed uh quite a lot of uh Records belonging to you know those uh people who attend the the meetings so uh I'll just go through a few key takeaways what happened here so uh yeah they accidentally left a database exposed uh that means that it was uh on the internet anyone could have accessed it without having any credentials any password right and uh we know that uh malicious hackers threat actors using Bots and other kind of automation can access such databases in a mere seconds we don't know whether or that happened in this case right it's impossible to know at this point but we know that it's been exposed for approximately 5 to 4 days so there was uh enough time right to just discover that database we know for sure that it uh didn't happen on purpose no no one hacked into the organization it was just a misconfiguration that led to this data being exposed now what data we are talking about in total over 200,000 records were exposed and some are uh very private data right so uh this included for example private chats uh you know on on on that platform so this is you know uh definitely a highly sensitive uh material and you know um that makes uh people very uh vulnerable also there were like uh you know names and dates when uh these people joined their organization also passwords but they were encrypted uh you know emails uh some other sensitive uh sensitive data points so uh the organization uh secured that data set uh when we notified them at the breach and this was very cool right but uh you know what we see as a problem as well is that they didn't actually uh make any public disclosure meaning that there's no notification like on their website or anywhere else uh were they would actually acknowledge this this uh happened also they uh didn't reply to my emails asking uh where I was asking for some uh comment or you know confirmation or denial that this happened so this just made us wonder whether you know they informed uh those uh members that uh might have been potentially affected because in case where your passwords even if encrypted emails are exposed you kind of need to be aware because you need to stay V vigilant for like uh fishing emails and uh all other kinds of threats including identity theft so that remains a question uh here for us yeah also on I think on one of the registration forms on that website uh it seems that they still require quite sensitive information you wouldn't think they would they would actually require from you like your address and postcode and full name and what I found weird was I downloaded one of those registration sites and it says for the online meetings can you give your username and password which I found very strange thing to give I mean you you do enter your password when you enter whatever platform yeah but on the registration form on the registration form it's quite well you are you sure it's not like creating your password no so you have to have the password from before somewhere right I don't know but it's still seemed a little bit irresponsible I guess and and the thing that you're say talking about your get that they didn't really disclose anything on on their uh website publicly about the incident uh and then now it's still out there and maybe people who are members will they will find out it from us that their their information has been exposed or what not it might discourage people from from you know taking initiative and going somewhere online to discuss the issues maybe with the dads drinking or you are never yeah you are never truly anonymous online uh that's one thing you know um also we are talking about highly vulnerable people right they are dealing with the huge problem in their lives and now uh their emails were exposed so they are like perfect fishing attack Target right here they could be attacked uh with uh spammy fake emails about you know offering some uh mental health uh support or some other uh like services that would be actually designed on crafted just to steal their data and money because uh it's bad when fret actors know your email and know your weakness M yeah that's one side of the equation but then there's also an issue of public shaming a potential public shaming someone in school let's say some [ __ ] to be fair like gets gets gets his or her hands on on that dat database and realizes that her his or her classmates dad is is maybe you know an addict and then being cruel as kids are sometimes right decides to to to publicly shame that person because your dad drinks a lot and then that's that's even more horrible for a young person who is really vulnerable yeah I know how many teenagers commit suicide Jesus Christ I mean that's a lot although I don't uh think that could be a problem here again uh technically speaking data set was exposed for like a few days and if you weren't like a FR actor specifically looking for for you know those open data sets it's highly unlikely that you know uh someone in your neighborhood or at your school uh found you know this data set if it was discovered I hope not but if it was it means it was discovered by some uh you know malicious hackers for uh Financial purposes so at least maybe uh you know public shaming could be avoided in this case but anyhow this is very very sensitive also with personal chats and things like that surely threat actors could exploit that information that you've given in in private to kind of orchestrate a more sophisticated yeah of course uh so that's also not not good at all yeah yeah nothing is cool about this no really not the fact that people need to go and join those groups and you know because of the pandemic every Everything shifted online and everyone got used to you know going to online meetings instead of doing that you know in person and also the fact that they that they were exposed and the fact that uh you know they ask for so much data why would you need that and I just hope that you know maybe hopefully those joining the group they didn't actually say their like real Nam surnames and maybe had uh some you know dummy email but we just can't know that if you promise anonymity I feel like people are more forthcoming maybe if they're not aware of you know the potential risks they're more likely to give the actual information if you're being told hey your anonymity is our top priority well telegram promises and cre did chat so oh yes oh yes indeed about that about that just empty promises isn't it yeah so uh yeah our next topic is uh the arrest of pav durov the Telegram's Legal Troubles and Security Concerns founder and CEO of telegram a truly wild social media platform i' would say uh he was arrested in France uh this past Saturday and it is really unprecedented so far for any head of a large tech company to be detained but the French actually did it uh Brave as they are uh yes and for a few days now uh personalities and uh I don't know blue chips on on Twitter or x uh are screaming about free speech and censorship uh El musk is active about it uh Lex fredman well you Sur you name them yeah but the French prosecutors are actually pretty precise in their statement it's a long one but the most important part s have to do that with the fact that the arrest is related to telegram's failure of or unwillingness to curb criminal or harmful activity on the platform and uh the acquisition not charges yet he's supposed to be held in in detain until Wednesday night uh at the shortest and maybe his arrest will be U prolonged we'll see uh we recording this on Wednesday so we don't know his fate so far uh so the accusations include also improper use of cryptography which we will come to later and also failure to allow authorized law enforcement interception uh as we all know law enforcement has the right to demand certain information related to certain crimes if they're proven in Democratic countries uh yeah so telegram what is it is a like I said it's a truly wild uh chaotic space on social media and and it indeed attracts a lot of uh drug dealers crypto Crooks uh extremists even pedophiles and the the uniting factor basically is that all of them are fleeing tighter restrictions and moderation on Rial platforms such as Facebook WhatsApp YouTube and all of those American evil ones as the Russians would say uh for instance there is Estonian there's this Estonian investigative journalist uh hogar Rona uh he did a nice experiment on telegram a few months ago um he and his team created a new account and started looking for a job uh on telegram I mean they joined channels that were directly uh about jobs in Estonia uh so here's what happened they were quickly offered to one carry migrants from Beller Russian border to Germany two to scam Swiss people out of their savings three launder money by allowing unknown people use our bank accounts their bank accounts for do different drug rated gigs five send a photo of their penis for $2,500 they rejected so that was I did not expect that at all why not like I said it's truly wild and criminal bottom line hogar says is that telegram has made it so easy I mean we can imagine it as a sort of a dark web for dummies really because it's so easy to do illegal stuff on there you don't need to know the dark web to buy or sell drugs find quick criminal gigs it's a gig economy really Underground economy right and even if you're a Russian Secret Service looking to hire people for sabotage Ops in Europe it's very easy and it's it's probably wild enough for them to catch some fish in there so yeah so this is the situation with telegram right now it's really really really uh chaotic and uh smelly for instance this Megan Squire the deputy director of data analytics at the Southern Poverty Law centers intelligence project recently told Financial Times that on telegram it seems to be actual crimes going on yeah so so so it was only also mindboggling how much they seem to get away with this and that's also one of the key things uh cuz it it's been it's been really wild out there in a way that uh there's like around 30,000 extremist groups on telegram operating and uh yeah everything is being sold there illegally and legally yeah sure and uh it's just it was a bit too much for the French I would presume there's this also new European Union regulation kind of uh Banning uh all especially highlighting refusal to cooperate with authorities and telegram seems to not have been interested at all in cooperating in any way with the French government and one has to also say that the French also have a special kind of mistrust of telegram because it was used for coordination by the terrorists who carried out the 2015 attacks in Paris so I mean it's hits a nerve yeah it hits hits a nerve and and they also just have laws which they have to follow and if telegram doesn't or any other kind of app doesn't then it's an it's an issue that has to be solved I guess yeah onto encryption stuff you're going to have anything to say because one of the reasons these weirdos and criminals have been attracted to togram in the first place yes there's less moderation it's a hands-off approach uh but there's also a myth let's call it that that everything is encrypted and secure and you will not be like intercepted by any kind of law enforcement anywhere in the world so you can freely trade [ __ ] online on on telegram really maybe even literally maybe even literally yeah and and they do um I think you know a lot of the criminals and dissidents are like Flock to telegram uh because durov has uh been seen as such a fighter and actually as a western person right so uh telegram was uh banned in in Russia for uh quite a lot of quite a long time right and he had two years and not even telegram itself was banned people could still use the network the third party apis were banned well yeah of course it doesn't matter that you know something is banned you can always uh find your uh way around it yeah um it's not uh not that difficult and not that complicated so many companies that uh left Russia or svpn were uh banned in Russia they still uh you know function there uh but I think it kind of uh added to this uh like uh Persona you know that oh uh I don't know like he uh he fights uh the the governments right and he repeatedly said that WhatsApp and other companies have like back uh uh governments have installed backd doors in those companies meaning that oh they can uh get all the data they want at at any point right uh but yeah like and telegram has been criticized I think since 2016 uh for its marketing right because uh it is marketed as uh highly secure me messaging app and if you would read like reports on mainstream media everyone keeps saying that oh this is encrypted chat app and it's not wrong it's it's not fake news but there's uh you know uh more to it so first of all uh you need it's not enabled by default as opposed uh you know to other messaging apps uh like uh signal let's say or Whatsapp you need to turn that on that feature and uh as we saw you know from cryptographers sharing their experience and uh knowledge on the telegram it's not that easy like you need to go through four or five steps to actually enable it and imagine like uh people who are not really uh you know into this or don't even know uh what encryption is they don't go through uh through the trouble do that right it's not uh privacy built in by default the feature is there also uh you can enable that encryption but only uh in private conversations uh meaning that if I'm chatting with you uh that can be private but if we are having a group chat you me and gintaras it's uh no longer encrypted right which means that it does stay like uh on my phone and it's kind of private until a law enforcement comes and asks uh you know uh telegram to hand that particular Conversation Over uh you know and when it's not encrypted it means that it is readable you know yeah because when police get their hands on uh some encrypted data ER it's useless to them they can't read it uh you know and uh when they get you know um data from let's say uh group chat from telegram um that's you know yeah quite easy readable and yeah yeah and and for every single private conversation you have to turn the the encryption feature every time oh so you can't just do it one thing it's not a default yeah you have to do it every time there quite a lot of effort for something that gives the illusion that your privacy is protected and that and also it depends what you are using telegram for right so of course like uh uh disident refugees whatnot uh people who who flee regimes they definitely you know know uh encryption uh better and they know how to protect themselves so at least they put an effort there you know uh but uh yeah but other people um it's it's not something that you would do like uh right if you're not an expert you you wouldn't care even about it and also if you're being told that it's or you know if you're being told critical as well then you would believe it because you think they can't lie to me about this also um telegram is widely used for group chats and social media channels you like uh it's extremely popular here in Lithuania because we check uh War news and like uh Ukraine between Ukraine and Russia right there's a lot of fake news but these are like huge broadcasting channels where you can catch up so there are like many and many people on those chats it's also uh incredibly popular with the crypto community and you know they would just great chats with a lot of crypto enthusiasts on there just sharing news about I don't know some new coin where uh they would you know ask you to invest or just to look into it and what not and uh quite many of those chats they are not supposed to uh be private they are just you know you are doing your whatever public speech and you want more people uh to hear it right but it's not those chats that law enforcement is worried about yeah anyway so yeah well to me uh to me this um the fact that it's it's quite difficult to turn on end to end encryption uh if you're non an expert is is one thing but what's even worse like you said NE I think that telegram knows that its encryption is it's difficult to turn on but still marketing it as as a feature uh you know making their product as a secure messenger and then because and they also criticize platforms like signal and uh others who are which are definitely safer as as far as I'm concerned than Telegram and you know implying that those systems are back doored by the US government it's also quite hypocritical knowing the unclear circumstances about Telegram and durov and Russia and their relationship so if I if you want to say something yeah I'm just no I'm just thinking you know and this is uh still the developing story and we'll learn more details uh you know every day but I am wondering so why didn't he uh you know turn on that endtoend encryption because other that's what other companies do they say like oh hello we can hand you that information but you know we don't have the keys to it so we can't unlock that for exactly and that's related I guess to the background of the whole story of telegram cuz durov started uh his other company of contati way earlier like it was 2000 the first decade of the 2000s I think and and it it was also widely popular and all that but because the Kremlin didn't uh control it they wanted to control it and he was kind of forced to sell his shares and uh he played uh well he he said he was independent enough he didn't give information about navali and all that stuff but the but then telegram was born in 2013 and it it also uh was quite popular not at first but it was it became more and more popular every year uh popular enough for for the Russian authorities to ban it in 2018 the band was lifted in a couple of years time late in 2020 but uh as Andre salato one of the actually most prominent Russian uh experts on internet freedom and security services and their relationship he's now of course living in Exile um he he he he points out that we still don't know why the band was lifted in 2020 and that's the key uh point I think because as alata of says the Kremlin said durov must not only ban extremist content which allegedly he did on telegram but also wanted him to surrender telegram's encryption keys that would allow authorities to read private conversations and then voila telegram was on block down in June 2020 had dur made some sort of deal with the FSB the Russia's Federal Security Service we still don't know that you know so I personally think that uh mosow uh at least thinks that he can control or at least utilize Telegram and surveil its users that are most interesting to to the government um and and that's also why uh now while durov is still in France Moscow the uh the puppet master of all these War porn artists and proar propagandists really prevalent on telegram hackers of all kinds crypto Crooks uh you know might be quite worried because in theory uh and once again uh because telegram is not actually encrypted uh jff could agree to hand over these encryption keys or whatnot to to the French authorities um again this is technically uh complicated because the EU laws forbid forbid that but but this would allow the French to access uh the platform and any Communications on it and because the Russian government officials almost use telegram as an official platform for communications and statements and all that it's quite an issue you know even zdanov Uh current head of naval's anti-corruption foundation has already warned this week if knew that there was a case against him in France and he still chose to go there because there was a there's a warrant a few days before he was actually detained so he must have known uh it could mean that dur had made a deal with the authorities and he might be chirping around you know well again this story uh is about unravel I think there's way way more and they you know I think that yeah my law enforcement might be looking for ways to get their hands on the information there and we've seen times and times uh again what information and what services you can buy there on telegram it's the whole ecosystem so you can you know uh buy tools and services and hire people that you need for anything like drugs ransomware uh you know uh child porn child porn it's like dark web yeah and then it is dark web which is yeah gig economy which is like really easy to use you just go there you you know have money um say say your price uh buy stuff and then also you know because um there's a huge crypto community on there and it's uh associated with uh telegram you can also uh you know launder money through crypto because you know there are some uh coins uh like Monera that are highly preferred by uh crypto uh yes not crypto just criminals you know uh because it's uh Anonymous and uh that's the problem that telegram offers the whole ecosystem uh for you know for newbies for dummies just so I think like law enforcement is may be trying to uh get under the hood here and yes there might have uh you know been u a deal and probably maybe he didn't hand um uh data when he got like individual request for data you know but maybe now we'll see a bat of it handed over um again but then I checked I was trying to find telegram uh transparency report it's not that easy I send the request I hope I'll I'll get it at some point and we can compare but then I went to look into Apple Google and meta you know how often they are being uh approached by law enforcement and how often do they share their data with law enforcement so essentially the approximate uh average is uh between 70 and 80% of requests uh you know uh Google at Apple they say oh okay we give you that uh that data right and also what is uh worrying that uh there's a clause uh in the laws where you can ask for emergency assistance uh if you are in law enforcement saying that uh you just kind of calling apple and saying that uh person is in an immediate danger and uh we need that information or those chats uh right now and then they hand uh you know over some uh some information um yeah so it's um it's quite interesting again it's going to unravel I guess is going to unravel durov is is is is is saying together with telegram that he has nothing to hide and that it's it's it's it's absurd to I bet he doesn't it's all those people on telegram they do yeah but I mean when when when telegram says it's that it's absurd to uh persecute a uh a founder or a CEO of a platform I for for the crimes AB you know taking place on the platform I think that is absurd but he's not really being persecuted he's being questioned in relation to someone else like possessing what child porn so he's like like a witness he's a wit and The Role of Telegram's Founder in Online Crime because telegram is basically a solo show really yeah wild why wouldn't he be questioned about it because he is Solly probably solely responsible for whatever is going on on there and not not responsible for the crimes that are taking place but the whole ecosystem it's his creation it's his idea and he's defending it with all his [ __ ] brain power or whatnot because he is in my mind he's not a genius Tech Visionary or whatnot he's he's a guy a Libertarian presumably uh who whose idea of of of uh free speech is quite you know everyone can have a say whatever they are and whoever they are whatever they do and there shouldn't be any kind of control from any government but you know since everything basically has been moving online since the last over the last 203 years of course crimes have moved online as well so why wouldn't law enforcement Move online and battle the criminals online as well I mean they're still criminals and there's child porn is is a serious issue yeah and uh like and he can handle law enforcement the keys to this dark Kingdom right so that just makes sense but it doesn't mean that uh you know he will face any consequences here like he might lose business some money like we we saw like telegram Associated coin like uh really tumbled after his arrest but yeah I but I mean when he's saying that I'm I'm not going to cooperate with the Kremlin 10 years ago I think he probably is not against it now or he's forced to coporate because the FSB has various security uh professionals have pointed out FSB has access to all these chats under the Russian law so if they want to keep operating in the country where it is the most popular platform they have to do it so he's on the on the one hand he's saying that I'm not going to give any kind of information to Kremlin and I'm not going to give any kind of information to the democratic government of France the US the UK or whatnot I guess he's basically equating these countries which are definitely different in their attitude to human right but also I don't see him as an idealist you know as a dreamer I think he'll just uh do whatever like most convenient uh for him yeah Dubai will will save him they have already contacted the French over their citizen you know but I just to sum up I guess from my side uh I I really have to quote sold out of again the because I agree with it uh he said no one of the perhaps uh the tech Titans themselves can really argue against evidence that unruly social media can cause a lot of damage uh the time for unmoderated social media has long passed and I agree with that and yet of course quite how the regulation happens is still an open question because uh I do think that the state whatever it is should have the ability to detain or at least question those who refuse to cooperate yes thinks you know you're not aange you're not Snowden even those guys have a opinion about that but you know you can compare Duro to Zuckerberg but Zuckerberg was invited and did come to a hearing or a few hearings G over a lot of information to law enforcement 80% and and and he has hired thousands of moderation professionals who do take care he tries yes he tries yes he's not successful most of the time I guess but he at least tries and puts an effort into it I think musk has modeled X after telegram by the way because he's also employing uh well he's he's fired 90% of the workforce over over the last two years or something you something else so you know but zerber for instance he cares about his reputation and Met's reputation so he does come to a hearing when he's invited to US Congress he answers these questions durov has been avoiding law enforcement and their questions wherever the law enforcement was was was asking him to come couldn't be bothered yeah 30 employees by the way yep that is wild to me that is insane you've got nearly 1 billion users and you've got 30 employees and no HR so that is wild but speaking of wild we have psychic readings that's too too The Rise of Psychic Scams on Social Media wild impostor psychic scams yes it is quite wild I think um you might already think psychic readings are a scam but fraud fraudsters are adding another layer layer to this spiritual practice uh victims are being scammed on Instagram and other social media platforms as people are impersonating Tor readers to Aid their schemes and other psychic people right you get but why did you say that uh you know you might already think that online psychics are SC I already think that online psych offline psychics as well if I might add there's no evidence to suggest that anybody has any psychic ability but there also I understand that there is no evidence to suggest that psychics are real or aren real why why do you even need scientific backing here I mean I'm not uh you know into that kind of stuff as well but essentially this is just uh people seeking out help in unconventional uh you know ways so that's just uh another way for them to kind of get some I don't know uh healing some guidance uh whatnot yeah but people think it's going to fix their issues that's the I think that's the issue that's where the scam lies I think I it really really depends like uh some people out there like psychics they are just there to talk to you to kind of share how they think about the world uh right and uh just um you know they're not there to uh solve specific problems for you they're just kind of giving you some guidance and some uh counseling and uh you know that just uh provides you another let's say uh surroundings another background spiritual realm uh what not just kind of it's um like a a place a person where you go and uh um talk and uh you know you think and whatnot because the way that I've always understood psychics is that they have this this extra sense almost where it's like that thing where they can they have premonitions they can see things that other people can't see and maybe it is or isn't true I don't know but that's always how I've understood psychics and I guess like spiritual mentors whatever like people that are taking those unconventional means and um kind of using it to help people that's that's cool but the term psychic I think is I don't know yeah we can call them like uh mystical practitioners or somehow else like just the term psychic it doesn't refer to those people having like any magical abilities and uh whatnot features what it call them e gandal eand e gandal yes um so these are people you know who like let's say some of them turn into astrology and uh you know they look for deep deeper meaning in the galaxy somewhere elsewhere some people they uh learn how to let's say read tarot uh cards you know and how to predict future yeah but the problem is that uh since this is very um not shady but it's mystical and we don't know how it works because because it's not science right so we are not sure what rules uh they are supposed to follow a lot of scams happen and and um you know I found this uh very funny complaint I get that that person is uh not amused at all but uh you know as you mentioned uh some well impostor psychics or just scammers they are trying to uh advertise as they're going to help you like solve your specific problem so there was this uh website that would uh help you find your soulmate right so you kind of uh fill the request you get a drawing in for 8 hours and then you are promised to meet that person from the drawing you know in next three months and a lot of people you know and there are a a lot of positive reviews saying that oh that person looked just like that drawing right so one woman presumably is that possible yes how good is the artist I wonder because and what does he know yeah yeah anyways fake fake reviews uh I bet yeah for sure I hope they're fake not real but it's just spooky um anyway one woman turned to that website paid the money got the picture didn't like the guy who was you know drawn there uh said that okay he looked like my dad over 60s she was presumably younger like in her 30s or so and uh she complained they sent her like another drawing she still didn't like it then in in the end she she didn't meet that person in the next three months and now she's asking for a refund because they they scammed her aha because you were meant to marry a 60-year-old man that kind of look like your dad they were red flags before that uh but anyway there are quite a lot of uh legitimate uh psychics right that well let's say they read well let's say legitimate you know um I just intervene for a bit just so you know my opinion about all that I can guess don't this is an enormous pile of hogwash all of that doesn't matter it doesn't matter look when we're going online we are agreeing to terms and services conditions whatnot so when you are buying [ __ ] you don't need you usually know what you're buying and how much you are paying I think it goes the same for like the shoes I buy or like some clothes still trash I don't need it uh the same way I don't need some tarot reading right but I decide maybe to amuse myself for whatever reason I go and uh you know turn to some uh psychic for tarot reading and uh there are a lot of really like popular tarot influencers on Instagram right and uh scammers are now scamming them so what they do they mimic uh their profiles they create mirror profiles with similar names uh profile pictures they steal the pictures uh you know make a similar profile and then they go after their followers approaching them like saying oh hi do you want a tarot reading like I'm free today I have a discount what not and uh these people are kind of uh they don't probably double check they are thinking that you know they are chatting with uh their usual psychic they pay the money and then of course that money uh disappears then they reach out to to the original not the impostor saying Hey where's my reading where's my money and you know they have nothing uh to do with it so they are like uh good name uh being jacked through the mud here you know because uh yeah but it is a perfect scam I think think because I think there's like something about like the psychic the way that I understand it to be like ah okay I can see something for you or whatever or like I know what you know I'm going to sort your whole life out just there's a sense of urgency and a sense of like uh Mystique about it where it's like oh okay maybe I'll give this a go maybe you know it's like but you've got to do it now like it's going to go it's going to fade all of but also this is again as with uh alcoholics and their friends and family we are talking about the vulnerable group of people here right people go to psychics for you know because they want a curse lifted or you know they want their loved ones or something like that which is already crazy and this is not we know this is not uh backed by science right not the way to do it and these are the real imposters uh because what they do is they like say that oh it turns out you know that this is a really evil curse and you need to pay more than 200 that's going to be you know $2,000 because this is a really really evil spirit and this goes on and on and on and there are like a lot of uh threats there it used to be just in person uh before you know the internet now it's all online as well those uh like uh scammers and frauders and criminals are uh kind of persecuting blackmailing these glial people into thinking okay that they're they are doomed now unless they pay like 10,000 to the scammer it's pretty sad but it's at the same time it's it's a little bit why you be gble if you want I mean I don't care why would why wouldn't one want to take responsibility for their own actions being gullible or not if they want if they want to contact okay but why is that our problem as a society no it's not our our problem as vulnerable people neither is their own neither is telegram our problem as a society you can opt out of that you can yeah sure this too you can just close the it's a perfect scam because it's a scam in the first place and then once you're in I me scam upon scam upon scam and gullible people they are you know perfect victims uh for sure if you're naive and you believe you know wholeheartedly in these kinds of things without trying to see the alternative angle then sure just education might help really well yeah but some anyway some people are yeah yeah but that's because they're uneducated and they're reading [ __ ] on social media that's why as well yeah true that true that okay so another A Father Fakes His Death to Avoid Child Support interesting story I have here is I think this is a great story this one is hilarious this one is hilarious so in a wild turn of events one dad hacked his way into jail by faking his own death to avoid paying child support um the child support payment was roughly $100,000 uh dollars uh but the price he he paid for this crime was much much greater but like even in uh fine now he owes double the money to to the state he died and then lived and then had to pay a double yeah um so a man called Jesse Kip I think it is uh hacked into the Hawaii death registry system using another person's credentials you know already already not great um to file a case for his own death um yep he faked his own death to get paying child support it's actually it's actually wild I don't know how somebody could be so technically um maybe smart or like in the know but be so stupid to think that this was going to work like surely I don't know like so he basically he was legally dead on various government databases okay um he assigned himself as the medical certifier and forged a signature of a doctor on his death C on his certificate death certificate yeah um but it didn't stop there he hacked into a computer and obtained information from the protected device to steal somebody's identity so I mean because he wanted to live on obviously ex exactly life makes total sense but is just entirely idiotic but um how was you got um good question I don't exactly know but uh um I don't think there were uh details sh by law enforcement maybe his his his former partner saw him on the street I don't know or his child waved to him hi Daddy I mean it's crazy with this like uh hacking power and you know wires in his head he could have like stolen 100,000 in crypto or like uh do a psychic scam or like something like that and just pil the child support but no but no I want to die maybe really maybe he didn't want to meet that child anymore was like oh I can't help have any more visits stop if it wasn't about the money though yeah maybe I know but I mean just don't do it on a computer because as we have mentioned numerous times everything stays online whatever you do I guess just do it the old fashioned way you have to know someone who knows someone who knows someone there's like a little shop you go upstairs you forge a passport there's a new one blah blah blah but you have like a life insurance policy or anything like it's just like I don't want to pay child support it's $100,000 Ah that's a bit too much money you know what I'm going to pretend to die and then maybe must have been a wild romance there maybe he just wanted to live off grid which you know is commend possible any yeah but I think you could uh you know even legally just uh go to another country that has like no uh let's say connections with your country and then not going to Russia always a choice yeah but then you're like oh maybe I like to live in the States but I don't want to be anymore and it's Hawaii as well yeah it's crazy he liked his life but I just didn't want to pay the money but move no no no move move away just ignore the debt and and hope for the best but no he yeah he hacks into the system changed a lot of things well he websites and systems as well so that's why that's how I think he actually was caught that's level of crazy yeah but if if he wasn't caught like for a while while MH of course you get braver and you say they don't care but it was obviously it was obviously a kind of wellth out plan because he's like right I'm going to make it so it looks like I'm dead then I'm going to steal somebody else's identity and then he also hacked into a load of other um and then I'm going to become a billionaire or something well yeah well he he hacked into other systems including like businesses government corporate networks and using stolen credentials all this kind of stuff crazy so yeah well now he will serve a Min minimum of five years in prison uh his sentence was for six but he needs to serve like 85% of his his term and so smart yet so dumb so dumb and he has to pay 200,000 now uh yeah but he will be able to work in prison and then make peanuts yeah there peanuts he might actually die in prison maybe or he might hack his way out of prison if he hacked his way in he can not because of Fage I don't know oh he 34 I believe 34 36 fine so he's young I just wonder you think you'd put those skills to good use no I'm going to pretend that I'm dead also he sounds like typical genius you know where like people can figure out Quantum ENT entanglement but then makes uh seven little doors for every kid in they own like that door the the rumor goes about Einstein that he did this really yes oh I didn't know that oh well all right then thank you very much for listening in and tune in next week for another Cyber News podcast if you enjoyed this podcast leave a like And subscribe and we'll see you next time bye-bye bye bye [Music]