How the Orioles can claim the AL East | Banner Baseball Show

from inside the banner offices along the Inner Harbor it is the banner baseball show Paul manano and Kyle goon live on a Wednesday in September all it took was a pumpkin spice latte to get Kyle into the office and uh it only took about five minutes for Kyle to spill a couple drops of that on his khakis thanks Paul sorry I that's we're back we're back oh starting off on a good note I mean the number of times I spoke coffee on myself uh I I once brought Starbucks back to the office Kyle and the entire thing fell off the desk and Spilled half of the coffee I really saved my spill shots for my my private account so that's great you have to subscribe for that yeah Kyle goon for his Twitter Handle by the way I'm Paul manano and allbanner sports you could be listening to us after the fact on any of your favorite podcast Platforms in any case give us a like a thumbs up WR it's a good review that'd be nice Kyle and I today are going to set the stage for the fin two and a half weeks of the Orioles regular season we're going to throw out what we've seen the bad baseball of the second half and just look forward to what this team can do over the final two and a half weeks but first Kyle what we saw last night in Boston Albert Suarez putting the team on his back could not have been a more timely quality start from Albert Suarez just one earned run in six Innings a career-high eight strikeouts lowered to erra to 339 for the millionth time where would this 20 24 Orioles team be without Albert Suarez look um I just think guys in their 30s are criminally underrated their mid-30s no bias there whatsoever no bias whatsoever no I mean it's just a story I love and it just keeps getting better it's like when when does a guy come back from seven years of just uh journeyman action over overseas in various International leagues and then all of a sudden he's a better pitcher yeah and furthermore and you know Ben McDonald and and Kevin Brown were talking about this on the broadcast yesterday it's like what is the case for Albert sarez to be the most valuable orial I mean I don't think he literally is but he's got to be top three or four in some Dimension especially when you consider this this was a guy in spring training We Like H this is kind of interesting I wonder if he's going to make the team and suddenly he's one of the most important starters arguably the the number two important starter throughout the the year on this team and I I just think it's a great story I've written about Albert before I would love to keep writing about him keep it up big guy it's it's a do it for us 30s somethings who uh are are fearing that there aren't better days ahead because I think Albert Suarez has proved that uh you can you can do it in your in your mid-30s it's a nice story for me anyway yeah I mean he is definitely the second most valuable pitcher on this team behind Corbin Burns and we have sent in votes for most valuable oral already and uh I've already sent in I I did a little bit early so probably you know taking a risk in case anything happens over the final three weeks of the season but he was in consideration you give three votes he was in consideration for one of the top three spots I had him probably fourth if I had to expand that vote it would be between him and adley Rutman but Corbin Burns obviously gets a vote for what he's done you know ignore the the rough August struggles he's been an ace that they traded for for the vast majority of the year and you know not to spoil my vote but Anthony santand there was obviously up there and gner Henderson but Albert Suarez what he has done for this team on a good team it's not like the the Orioles have had good performances in years past from guys you wouldn't expect on bad teams where there's no pressure there's no you know uh playoff expectations right now in the middle of this playoff on Albert warus has been phenomenal and you know you hope that you won't need him that much in a playoff series but it at least you can sleep a little bit better at night if you absolutely had to consider he wouldn't be the worst and and I'll just say this as a parting thought on this and maybe some viewers can chime in uh later on but really when you think about Orioles free agent starting pitches that they've added how where does Albert sparez rank in in the michas certainly I mean certainly in the michelas era but even you know lifetime which is however many years I've been alive better than Andrew cashner it's it's it's it's not it's not an insignificant ranking for him anyway absolutely uh so he was phenomenal we also saw two home runs from Cedric Mullins who has pulled himself willed himself out of his first half slump you go back to July July 13th and he had a 620 Ops that was two and a half weeks before the trade deadline not coun in his two home runs last night in the game since he has an 899 Ops he has been legitimately good since the middle of July he had those two homers last night I don't care how cheap the first one was counts all the same uh at in Boston and against righties this year he has a 767 Ops so you're talking about a guy who has been moved up in the order because of adley Rutman struggles and is going to find his way into a playoff lineup you need this version of Cedric Mullins in the playoffs remember last year he went 0 for2 in the ALDS so if you're getting at least a little bit from Cedric Mullin in the playoffs he's gonna be starting a lot of games if they are facing righties you need him to be this version of himself yeah and and I mean I think what really sticks out to me is just um just making stuff happen I mean the the last you know really few weeks um with the offense hung up the way it's been you know couple games ago he really scooped for a couple hits which I know is not how the Orioles are supposed to hit but he's making stuff happen he made the the the first home run happen with the 44 degree launch angle um the weirdo bloop the shortest home run of his career I believe um and then that catch in game one um you know when Cedric is confident when Cedric ha has confidence in himself he's still a game changer and we saw that earlier this year and then there was just a long long fow and people are talking about his future and and it just feels like you know with so many young outfielders the Orioles are poised to move away from him but I think he still has a lot of value and especially with Hon Kad out of lineup unfortunately with injury um I think you've been able to see a little bit more of Cedric as when healthy a really really productive player and and that those two things are the key so I I don't mean to excuse what was just a really bad stretch obviously um in the middle of this season which which I think contributed to some of the Orioles downturn but when he's he's hot I mean he's a leader for this team and we can't discount that yeah remember last year he started out the season really well went on the injured list missed a couple months came back at the end of the regular season and that's really when his struggle started carry over into the playoffs carry over into this season and you mentioned the health being a key factor here now that he is fully healthy he is confident in himself there were some signs when he came back from injury last year that maybe the athleticism wasn't quite where it was it seems like he is right back to being pretty much the elite defensive center fielder that he was prior to the injury maybe not in 2021 version of himself maybe not a a gold glove caliber just because of his arm but he still has Elite range he still has well above average speed so he affects he's in mid 20 steals I believe I mean at least so he he still affects the game in a lot of different ways for a team that seems to be a little bit too riing on the home run I know he hit two last and when the Orioles hit two home runs they win when they don't they lose but he can affect the game in a lot of different ways so he's going to find his way into a playoff lineup I can't imagine that you know the Orioles are going to be uh asking anybody else to play center field if they're facing a righty all right Kyle let's turn the page because this Orioles team is at 500 since the All-Star break they are not playing their best baseball that's apparent however they are still just a half game behind the Yankees in the AL East with 16 games to play as Aaron Boon would say it's all right there in front of us now is not the time for wh ifs to look back on what could this team have been and you did write a great column on the Baltimore banner.com where you can subscribe $1 for six months about we'll never really know what this team would have been the team that Mike Elias assembled in the off season because of injuries because we've seen Kyle bradish go down and Tyler Wells and John means and all these guys go out but at this point we're still standing here despite all those injuries despite all their struggles with this Orioles team having a legitimate shot to be back-to-back AL East champions and from there you got to buy in the first round if you are one of the top seeds and you could roll your way through October so let's set the stage here for the final couple weeks of the season and see what needs to be done because there are three teams in the American League right now that have 83 wins the Orioles the Guardians and the Yankees Orioles are the only team with 63 losses the other two teams have 62 so there are 16 games left on their schedule one against Boston in the series finale tonight six against Detroit three against San Francisco three against New York in the most important series of the season and three against the twins to close out the season the magic number is at nine which is a combination of Orioles wins and losses by Wild Card teams they really just need to not get swept by the Yankees in the final SE the second to last penultimate series of the season in order to win the season series against the Yankees which is important because there is no more game 163 the decider of who wins the Division if it's tied after 162 goes to the head-to-head matchup so if the Orioles have the season series over the Yankees if they win just one of those three games and they end up tied with the Yankees at the end of the year they have the tiebreaker and let me tell you Kyle every team needs the buy obviously I don't know if any team needs the buy more than the Orioles yeah um obviously they they could use a lot of guys back a lot of guys injury recovery timelines are are within really the next two weeks right um so yeah I mean I I think it's been funny because we describe how tight everything is how close everything is the Orioles are right up there with the best teams in the AL and yet The Vibes of the Season feel so uh such a SLO and I think it has a lot to do with that 500 record since the All-Star break and and and just the The Soaring Joy of last season um The Comeback wins The one- Run wins all the all the high drama where the Orioles would come out on top and and this year if they don't have that dominant closer they don't have that offense that surges with runners in scoring position and I think that's really been the hangup emotionally for a lot of fans um but that being said I mean the path is really clear I mean Detroit is is that should be a series that the Orioles can win um the Giants that should be a series The Orioles can win and then you know they've they've been great against Al's competition for most of this season um they've they've put a lot of their hay in the barn and this should be a reminder of that I mean the fact that they they really just need to to win one game against the Yankees should be a reminder of how much good work that they've done throughout the year it's it shouldn't just be about the the series at the end of the season it should just be it should also be hey this regular season mattered and here's why it matters because you might win the division um if you just win one game off off the Yankees yeah and I I think every division leader right now their fan base is having the same kind of freak out that Orioles fans have we heard of Kay Holmes per chance have you have you heard about clay Holmes and how the Yankees fans feel about play homes right now it's it's not just the Orioles yeah you watch the Orioles and you're like this is a team is going to struggle in October you know like they they commit mistakes or they go on these long stretches offensively where they are not hitting the ball and you think this is a team that is going to be vulnerable in the playoffs this is a kind of team that gets bounced early in the playoffs but then the question is who's beating them which other team in the American League is better than the Orioles on a consistent basis I'd argue it's it's incredibly close it's literally a half game between these top three teams in baseball or at least in the American League right now um where this TEAM stands right now in terms of getting guys back let's we'll run through all of the injured guys but first a quick note on rehab assignments because those are incredibly important as they try to get these guys back up to speed Delmarva and aine their seasons are already over buoy season ends Sunday and norfol Seasons ends the next Sunday so September 22nd so they really don't have a long Runway here 11 days for the norfol season for these guys to get at bats against against other players unless they are doing it pregame at Camden Yards so that is kind of a wrinkle to throw in there and then one more note about the schedule of this because the Orioles will benefit from as many days between now and their first playoff game as possible the first game of the AL Wild Card series is Tuesday October 1st the first game of the ALDS is Saturday October 5th that's a difference I mean that's a huge difference it's a huge difference it's almost a full turn in the rotation so yeah I mean obviously listen I know last year people got stranded on the R versus Russ and and how the Oreos performed really informed how people felt emotionally about that yeah you want the rest are you kidding me yeah they've been through however many months of this season they're they're beat up probably the guys who are playing every day are beat up like they they want this rest they they could use it um I think that the Orioles will try to be wise about how they use it but they do need it yeah exactly and obviously there's a chance you lose in the Wild Card series and then you're not even in the look at Tampa Bay last year like you think they they wouldn't have wanted to get through get with a buy I'm sure they would have exactly um all right so here's all the guys who are out for the year who are on the Orioles injured list so there's there's no chance the Orioles are getting these guys back Felix Bautista I know he's been throwing bullpens at Camden Yards do not get your hopes up Orioles fans michelas continually says he is not coming back this season but it is good that he is at least back of the mound and hopefully getting ready for spring training 2025 Kyle bradish obviously John means Tyler Wells all those guys had Tommy John and so did Jorge Mato on his non-throwing arm that is a a very small injury when it's it happens when it does but now you look back and you say boy it would be nice to have a right-handed hitting second baseman to compliment Jackson holiday because holiday has still not been great against lefties he's got a lot better since his two for 34 start but you would like to have somebody that you could throw out there and obviously Jorge Mato is fast he could be used as a pinch Runner defensive replacement at any spot in the infield pretty much maybe except for third base in the playoffs that is a valuable guy for the playoffs and we saw he had a good ALDS last year yeah we we we put listen the banner puts plenty of slander on know where Mato but when he was when he was injured he was a useful player and and I think he proved himself a lot this year exactly so now there are seven guys on the injury list who could still come back over these final two and a half weeks of the regular season you got Danny kulum hon Kad Ryan mastle Grayson Rodriguez Ramona rius Jacob Webb and Jordan Westberg let's start with the two relievers here start with Jacob Webb who's got elbow inflammation he pitched one inning for tripa norfol last night then you've got Danny kulum who had bone chips removed from his left elbow he's beginning a AAA Norfolk rehab assignment tonight Bullpen this Bullpen right now now they got the the win last night you saw seranthony Dominguez shut the door but it was a little bit of a rocky stretch to get there yeah yanner Canó just hasn't been himself from last year um and you know there's year-to-year variance and he's had overall a decent year but he's just not not the lockdown guy that he was and then of course we all know sir Anthony has looked good at times and then has given up huge home runs at times and so I think anything you can get would be great I mean Jacob Webb when when he was healthy was a Workhorse um and and Danny kulum I mean you know you see the way that that Brandon Hyde's using um Keegan Aken and CNL Perez and and those guys are kind of workhorses right now so another left-handed arm to get in there would I think be really welcome and and obviously Danny when he was he I mean Danny could be um a setup man in in it of himself and has been that for this Bullpen this year so I think you know you never know what that guy will look like coming back from that long a layoff um but I mean any any arms you can get uh going in the postseason especially reliable arms that Webb and kulum have been this year are going to be great yeah and Jacob Webb is is not the same pitcher that he was in the playoffs last year well I mean even last year he kind of got a raw deal I mean he he had to he had to go in for Grayson when Grayson imploded and and I mean I know everyone's going to remember that in a certain way and and you know even I remember that in a certain way but I also think you know I think this year has been extremely Redemptive for for Jacob and hopefully he's healthy enough to to show what he can do in the playoffs given a fair Shake because I I think he just had to go in some some really unfortunate situations last year also went in for Dean Kramer I believe last year and it just it just kind of blew up in his face and it's just unfortunate yeah and he's got a ER just over three this year he has been a lot better and part of it is the Orioles acquired him Midway through last season from the angels He had a full off season with the Orioles he's had a lot of time to work with this pitching staff and he has improved himself so I think he will be a better pitcher in the playoffs if he is used and hopefully he will come back at some point soon uh this team has gotten 34 and a third Innings combined from Matt Bowman and bur Smith that was never the plan these guys were not on the team to start the year so anybody who can clean up those Innings and obviously you can move guys to the bullpen once you shorten your rotation for a playoff series so maybe Albert Suarez is coming out of the bullpen if he's not starting a game but any kind of depth you can get in that Bullpen will help although with Matt Bowman you can't replace the Matt holiday experience you know yeah the Matt holiday teammate experience a real important real important metric exactly and that's so important for for Jackson holiday to feel welcome in the club um all right another big arm that the orol are hoping to get back is Grayson Rodriguez he's got that lat Terrace discomfort which he suffered uh a couple months ago he's been throwing bullpens at Camden Yards and he's gotten up to close to the 90s from what I've heard uh and I think he'd probably need given the amount of time that he's had off Maybe One Rehab start before he comes back looking at maybe Triple A norfol you probably can't squeeze much more out of that given the amount of time that's left two and a half weeks I mean you're really cutting it close but you would need him in the playoff series because you're looking at Corbin Burns Zack effin and then Albert Suarez would be your third starter you'd like to have Grayson Rodriguez in that spot yeah I mean realistically realistically you'd probably want him to do a rehab start and then you'd probably also want him to start a Minnesota game right I I mean you know do you want to throw him in the Yankees for first for start probably not think Guan stto and Aaron judge would would be able to pounce on them but yeah I I agree I I I mean Grayson we've talked about it at nauseum obviously could be a number two starter I don't I don't know if he's a number two starter in the playoffs today I I don't even know if he if they got to the ALDS he would be a number two starter just based on the time he's missed I mean like obviously his stuff is great when he's healthy but if he's starting to touch 90 I I'm not sure that the Orioles can can risk it I'm not sure that the or knowing Brandon Hyde I mean it's hard to imagine he would risk that being like hey Grayson um here's the ball welcome back uh go pitch game two of an ALDS so I I I think he would need one major league start and and the candidate would seem to be the twins if he can get healthy in time yeah and the frustrating thing is talk about another guy who I think was a is a much better pitcher now than he was a year ago when he got blown up in the second game of the ALDS last year against the Rangers I think he was going to be going into that Series going into a potential playoff series in a much better spot mentally much better spot physically what he can do his control it's just frustrating that the injury occurred when it did but at the same time door is still open for him to come back at some point all right Jordan Westberg we've seen him doing drills on the field he's taken off his cast of on his fractured hand at times to throw the ball across the diamond from third base we've seen some infielders some big league hitters do the skip the rehab assignment recently we've seen guys like Trey Turner do it as another infielder I don't know if the Orioles will take that risk with Jordan Westbrook and throw him right back in if it's a series against like you said the Yankees or the twins at the end of the season but they could absolutely use him and there aren't a whole lot of minor league games left up until the 22nd yeah um you know Andy Costco the other day posted a story about um you know the Orioles offense with runners in scoring position and pointed out hey Jordan was one of the best guys yeah on this team I think when you look at the last especially month and a half of how this offense has been um the Orioles are obviously missing a little hum in their engine and I I honestly think Jordan Westberg is a huge part of that just he almost Blends in with the background because he's just not a real vocal player he's just a head down do my work you know you get the sense that if he if he could uh you know never talk to anyone he would in in one way but except maybe Colton cower I mean he's kind of a fighter I mean he's he's feisty I think you know this rehab is proof of that I've you know I've watched him on the mound I actually watched him a little bit before he was able to to get his hand out of the cast and he was just Fielding rounders and then turning his body as if he were going to throw and then he wasn't like he was obviously just kind of chilling there with his his cast and it just reminded me of like a dog in a cone of shame and I feel like that's sort of like Jordan Westberg mentality where he's like when can I get back and play baseball again when can I do what I want to do all the time again and um you know he also talked to Andy Costa and gave a very um you know sort of defiant answer about you know things going wrong on offense and say hey we need to change it yeah and I just think the Orioles where they've been the last few weeks need that yeah I I just don't know with that level of injury the fractured hand if it's realistic that he comes back I think maybe we're all getting our hopes up a little bit but I know if there's a chance Jordan Westberg is gonna find it talk about a a glue guy at least in terms of filling in the gaps on offense I mean hitting with two strikes he doesn't walk a lot but hitting for power when he's needed to a lot of long counts a what doesn't he do well yeah I mean you basically said it doesn't walk a lot that's it that's like the hole in this game which you have a bunch of other guys on this team who do walk so what you need right now is clutch singles doubles and at times home runs and that's exactly what Jordan Westberg is I mean his importance he's literally an All-Star his importance to but it's like we never talk about him in that way because he was a late ad I mean he was an All-Star he deserved to be an All-Star outright yeah and and it's like we don't talk about him that way and I think it's almost lost in this Shuffle of people talking about I think it's very common right now for fans to discuss how dissatisfied they are with the Oriol performance and I get that I mean I watch these games but Jordan Westberg is a huge part of it yeah Jordan Westberg is a huge part of it yeah you take Cory Seager away from I know he's not the level of Cory Seager you take Cory Seager away from the Rangers that team's going to get worse you take it an elite infielder away from a good team they're going to be a worse team they're missing two infielders all right Ryan Mal Castle Orioles would certainly like to get him back there's another infielder left wrist injury for Ryan Mal Castle Brandon Hyde said uh quote yesterday I want to be optimistic but I'm not really sure I think he's going to come back by the end of the regular season I just don't know when this is a tricky one because he has already passed the time where he could come back off the injured list and he's still obviously not feeling good enough to be swinging the bat this is an injury that should not in theory require a rehab assignment but the longer he goes without playing a major league game the higher likelihood it is that he will have to go on a quick rehab assignment I still tend to think the Oriol will if they can try to activate him as quickly as possible but you see how much this team needs his defense at first Ryan o'hern has done a solid job filling in for him but Ryan Castle is a legitimately good defensive first baseman which is crazy to say considering he was a third baseman than a left fielder and bad at both those spots just a few years ago but he is legitimately a gold glove caliber first baseman defensively and offensively I think his season has been much maligned but he still has an Ops plus over a 100 he still can hit for a little bit of pop and quite frankly you'd just rather have Jordan Westberg and Ryan Mount Castle in there then you would Emanuel Rivera and leavon SoDo and and honestly I mean think the other thing that that was pointed out on the broadcast last night is hey like when a when a lefty comes up it'd be nice to have Ryan pinch hit um and I know that usually works the other way it feels like where Ryan's the starting first baseman and oarn comes in um to to pinch but I mean you you want that to work both ways I think the platooning first has worked well I think Ryan oarn as a DH and pinch hitter has worked well um and and I think what we're seeing from Orioles is is what happens when sort of the the the guys overextend from their role yeah and I I I think that's part of why they're not seeing the offensive success that they've they've had for the last few years because they're so beat up that they have to just force guys to play a little more than they're used to and and really I know sometimes the platooning of the Orioles and Brandon HDE is malign but I I think it works well and obviously the Orioles have had tons of success with pinch hitting substitutions and Ryan Mount Castle losing him really takes away a lot of that ability in the same way that Matt Bowman and bur Smith were not meant to be a plan for this team Emanuel Rivera leavon stto I mean Austin Slater he's been solid but he was not meant to be the plan for this team same with Eloy Jimenez Ramon rius talking about another infielder that the oras could use ankle injury he's on crutches uh last time we saw him I think he's off the crutches recently uh Brandon Hyde said he's close to a hitting program I mean this is a guy that four months ago if he went on the injured list we would not be talking about how integral he is to this offense because since then since uh really his tough start to the season start of July he is hitting 291 with an 891 Ops and another guy who if the orios are facing a lefty in the playoffs like they did against the Rangers last year he's going to find his way into a lineup against the Lefty he's has a 768 Ops against lefties this season and he's been very very important after Jordan westbr went down imagine this sentence in May uh the Orioles need Ramon U's home runs yeah yeah a guy who hit four last year hit what five in August yeah he hit more in the month of August than he did all of last season and he got injured in August too yeah um but yeah it yeah we're kind of proving the thesis it feels um you know fortunately a little repetitive but um you know he would be a guy These Guys these guys could use yeah uh and then finally hon kersed who has been out with a concussion uh since he got plunked in the head uh several months ago or several weeks ago I should say came back and then ultimately went back on the injured list he is now in the midst of a rehab assignment he got transferred to doua buy last night where he went one for three his last game in the big leagues was on July 29th so really a month and a a couple weeks the thing with Hon Kad is I'm not sure he comes back and claims anybody's spot on the roster right now he was showing signs of improvement from last year right before he got injured it just sucks right now because the Orioles don't need a left-handed hitting outfielder with Cedric Mullen hitting as well as he is with Colton cowser hitting as well as he is and playing as good defense and with the defensive struggles we saw from hon kirad I'm just not quite sure that there's there's room for him no I don't I don't see it and and frankly I think that there is a tendency to over evaluate what youth can do um especially I mean we're talking short term we're talking in a few weeks these guys are going be Do or Die series Y and I just it's it it stinks for the young man but I I just wouldn't trust him to be hey hon um we're gonna throw you in we're gonna pinch hit you in you know eth eth or ninth inning um when we need a big hit I don't think he's at that place right now um and especially without the experience I I I don't yeah I don't think hon would take anybody's spot on on the current roster right now yeah it's just you hope that spring training is a bit of a launch board from next year but I really think with Hon as long as this concussion has gone on we're talking about next year yeah because he he doesn't really add anything there's no there's no defense that he adds as a bench piece and then he's got pop but I mean you just gotta hope that all his timing is back I mean it there's a lot of Hope there yeah exactly uh and this team clearly likes Austin Slater as a fourth fifth outfielder because of his defense because he can hit lefties It's just tough to see a spot for H Kad right now um all right of those seven guys if we had to rank the order of importance that these guys come back before the end of the year I'm going to give you an order starts with Jordan Westberg because of what he does for that offense and a team that desperately needs somebody to fill in the gaps Grayson Rodriguez because the Orioles need that third piece of a three-man playoff rotation Danny kulum Ryan Mal Castle then Ramona rius then Jacob Webb then hon Kad yeah I I almost agree with you what do you disagree with uh I do think Westberg is first as an every game player Grayson second um I think mount's third okay I just I would put a possible everyday player or even a you know he may not play play first base every day but he could probably be in the lineup every day and then the two Bullpen arms kulam and and and web and then Ramone uas I mean as much as good as Ramone was during those months I mean with with the bum ankles his defense going to be the same I'm not sure and um you know I think the Orioles do have some defensive answers it's just' be nice to ride his hitting that he had right before he got injured y so I think it would be Westberg Grayson mounty uh kolum web Urias kirstead I think almost agreeing with me is the closest we've ever come to to seeing eye to eye it's like I almost respect you almost this is this is going off the rails uh one more quick note before we get out of here uh because you talk about the injured guys coming back one guy that I I just don't also see a spot for on the playoff roster is Trevor Rogers who's not injured but he got option to Triple A after his start to his Orioles career got off to a rough start three earned runs in six and two thirds in his last triaa start his third triaa start I'd be shocked if we see him back up in the big leagues right now uh barring another injury to a pitcher you hope you don't lose anybody else at this point uh but I don't think Trevor Rogers you don't want to throw him into a bullpen considering he's never really done that in his career and he doesn't really have the stuff I know he's a lefty so that's intriguing but he doesn't really have the stuff to be a playoff reliever you know he doesn't have blistering fastball that's going to blow guys away and I know it's frustrating when fans look down to Miami and see Conor Norby hitting the cover off the ball but this is a move that I've said on the show before is not really was not really done with 2024 in mind I know most deadline deals you think are going to help you for the stretch run Orioles clearly made that move because they liked the two extra years of Team control and I think it's probably closer to you know on to 2025 for Trevor Rogers than it is he's gonna help this team and it it's I mean look it you know Danielle allentuck did a great trade analysis for us and and when you just look at the Trevor Rogers for for Conor Norby and Kyle Stowers yeah it's bad it's bad but um that being said I don't I don't think that's a terrible come I think the way the Orioles probably looked at it based on how Trevor rogers's 2024 season was going was this guy has been a great pitcher before we think he can be a great pitcher again um you know we have him under team control we need arms for next year I mean it seems in all likelihood K Corbin Burns is gone next year then they have all the guys recovering from Tommy John I mean they they had to do something it would have been malpractice if they didn't add guys under team control for next year and they did that with effn who who was obviously helped this year and they did that with Rogers who in in my opinion I don't I can't Source this but I think they viewed any success that Trevor Rogers had this year as a bonus just based purely on the trajectory who was on and he there was no bonus unfortunately yeah and would Conor Norby be helping this team probably it's hard to say at the expense of your number one Prospect right that that that's I think that's another part of the deal that I don't know that I I think the Orioles always felt that Jackson holiday was the future there and I still think he is it's just the future is not happening right now unfortunately and Conor Norby is y he is Jackson holiday is still struggling and you could talk about a platoon situation if you had Jorge Mato in there if you had Conor Norby going with the right left the fact of the matter is at some point I know the orios aren't really concerned with longterm development right now in the midst of this playoff hunt fact is at some point Jackson holiday is going to have to hit lefties if he's going to be an everyday big leager for the same reason that know gunar Henderson when he was going through the minor leagues it was a question of whether he'd still be able to hit lefties and the Orioles kept using him in those situations in the minors he has to figure it out because if he's going to be the star that they expect and we all expect him to be he's gonna have to get through that and that might mean going through Growing Pains at a very difficult very important Time of the Season here that's what we're seeing unavoidable and but you know listen I I don't know at this point I mean this this world World Series race is obviously a tossup I mean all these teams are neck and neck and and you look about around the league in no fan base I mean there's no team that's going to reach a 100 wins yep um and no fan base is is very happy right now um except maybe Mets fans except maybe Mets fans so it could happen this year but I think there's been some mitigation by the Orioles of you know if it doesn't happen this year we got guys who um are gonna help us do it next year we're giving guys opportunities that are GNA help us do it next year yeah um so it's say what you want maybe a hedge isn't so great there but it I I do believe it's sort of a hedge of of giving guys like Jackson an opportunity to to go through some lumps because and and you know what I mean the young Orioles went through some lumps last year in the playoffs so it's it's gonna happen eventually exactly uh well we have two and a half weeks before we hit the playoffs and that means we're probably GNA try to sneak in as much sleep as we can which means drinking fewer pumpkin spice lattes at speak for yourself yeah Kyle goon is his Twitter handle I'm at poano thanks so much for tuning in and of course you can read all of Kyle's terrific work on the Baltimore banner.com where you can find Andy costus good work and John mioli and Danielle allentuck and everything that we have to offer for there please like rate review subscribe all that good stuff thanks so much for tuning in