Christian Cullen shares WILD stories from his record-breaking All Blacks career!

[Music] hello and welcome to gbrands this week we're joined by one of the greatest to have ever done it and he's fresh off the golf course from giving trus and Marshall me made an absolute pasting Christian Cullen thanks for coming on the show thanks for having me who won hey hey look before we get into it like I want to make it clear cuz he'll start gloating otherwise that I've I've actually never beaten him on the golf course so let's put that out there now so that we don't have to go through the painfulness of him basically saying that I've never beaten him I'm going to I'm going to throw it out there early doors but equally I I feel that I contributed over I don't know what 25 years 30 years to your income and I want to know I want to know if you de clearing tax on the money that you've taken off me mate it's all cash mate so don't cleare anything cash and beers straight in the pocket Easy Money by the sounds of thing yeah yeah so you don't have to you don't have to actually cuz nothing changed today so yeah but that happens though when you're hitting your three-wood off the off the te right usually you got to hit your driver but he tries to play safe and oh he's a coward is he is that what he say Kelly he's literally play one hole where I did ask him is is this a par five for Mar said par five women Par Four men and he's in his so Kelly how how does Mary go on the golf course cuz most people listening to this will remember him on the field for being quite fiery does he throw us clubs no no no I think he no no he doesn't no he's pretty good he gets I think he he wants to be really good cuz he's quite meticulous in his in his setup and he's asking people is he lined up right and you know but today I actually seen something I haven't seen on a golf stop it go on no no no here we go this was there was a there was a Creed in the car that we weren't going to talk about something like that yeah yeah but but I think I have I actually think I have to talk about you're on the couch so I was standing behind Marti on the pting GRE and the flag is there and then so you could see where the ball should roll and then when he did a stroke I seen no ball rolling and I thought where has he missed the ball but then I've looked on the other side and the ball so he shanked he shanked the PT which I don't I don't think I've ever I've seen Shanks with irons but I don't think I've ever seen it with a putter yeah well yeah and that's why you come third in today I did yeah where you guys obviously go way back and we'll we'll we'll work our way towards that but I'd like to take the listener back to where you started and where it all began for you because obviously your nickname one of your nicknames and we'll get to a couple of the other ones that I think Eric Rush gave you the pie cckar Riki Express is obviously you grew up in pakar and pararam lots of people in the UK listening to this we have no idea where that is or what that looks like can you kind of a paint paint us a picture of your childhood and what that looked like growing up yeah well I mean I think um oh Keith Quinn gave me that name although it's pretty impressive because I can't even say that quickly so I know when you commentate it's actually quite hard to say people's names so the P Express to say very quickly is quite hard so um Keith Quinn good on you bro what a ledge yeah yeah so P's probably um well now it be a 30-minute drive from Wellington with the new road but in the old days probably 45 minute drive uh out of Wellington along the coast and yeah just a little Beach town with uh man 700 houses so we're sort of right in the middle between we are Wellington region but also Haro region so uh when you're living in Parker you can play for either Wellington or or Haro so I picked the bigger Union and played for a half first um yeah so hey yeah they grew up there and had a pretty good upbringing and um I got a brother and sister and obviously played Junior rugby through the through the park days and yeah so that was it was pretty simple like as uh you know back then life probably wasn't as hard uh for kids is is what it is now you know we were told to um when we went down to the park to come back before the uh the street lights came on and that was pretty much l l go was that where you used to go down and used to play like big games of touch like the whole Community used to get involved or something yeah yeah I mean that's um I mean I'm now coaching helping my daughter coach coach my daughter at C college with a guy that was one of those guys guy called juice we used to call him juice back in the day and it was it was awesome we'd go down on a Thursday night and there would be kids like me that were 10 10 years old and there'd be guys that playing in the senior a of be other the teenagers and just a big Community touch game you just all mix up and play on a Thursday night and man it was awesome like you don't you don't get that now I mean know par now has gone a bit uh a bit greeny and more football so rugby has gone from there a long time ago but so when you saying greeny you're meaning like nature green you're not being like weed green or anything like that just just a bit of everything I haven't been yeah Park's probably my parents moved out of par a while ago and yeah yeah yeah we're uh we're in pumu now but that was memories that you just that was that was awesome that's where probably I learned a lot of our a lot of the school I had when I was playing and um even now when we had touch teams we had that we had guys from sh We Were Young to older guys playing in in uh competitive touch teams and but yeah you just I don't see that anywhere now maybe in some of the communities like up in gbon or or like that but yeah that was cool did did you play so do you think maybe playing against those older guys kind of was there a time when you realized I can actually mix it with these adults and I'm just a kid well yeah but I mean you didn't you never got you couldn't get away of anything right so if you did something or you get a slap across the head absolutely yeah yeah yeah absolutely and though were in my parents and that's what they expected like if you step that a line then the locals would put you back into line so and that was with everything like whether you're out all doing life saving at the beach and that's the crazy thing about life when we were kids is You' roll down to the beach with your surfboard at 12 years old and just go surfing and I don't know if I'll let my kids go to the beach at 12 years old you know what I mean like but we would roll around and that's what I mean like be home before the um before the street lights come on yeah so so you you played 93 94 New Zealand school boys and then I think 95 you even Shadow player the World Cup squad like so is that when you started to accelerate in your in your representative career like 93 94 yeah I mean I so so when I left school I played I I played for Haro so the year before Carlos was with Haro and they had an awesome year and they they won everything and they they got promoted from third division to um Second Division they had a shield match against Auckland Graham Henry S Carlos see Carlos come walk so Carlos went and man I was the new guy and the next year and we lost every game in the second and got and got the motor back down to thir um was that you played Jonah and Joi yes that was my one of the first Jonah's first first class game so luckily for us all the TV cameras in TV 1 TV3 were there and we did all right we got 12 points the only problem was they got 108 a big day yeah so I mean it was just one of those days where you know I'm a fullback little skinny white p and Jonah and Joell on One Wing I think you know probably um probably all was playing in Georg Pepe so they had a pretty powerful side so yeah it was it was a tough uh it was a good learning curve but I mean that year we it was Unreal we played transville like Haro we played fij like it was pretty cool we played you know counties and then we lost we I think we lost every game game that year but experience yeah I was only a young fell and then then after that um yeah then some guy got me seeing if I wanted to come go to men or two so yeah I said why not so got to have a home mve to men or two and yeah that's pretty much R all St what were you weighing in at at that stage Kelly oh was a bit of a Hulk uh ear early 70s no no I was big a bit bigger than that probably 82 83 oh [ __ ] you were were you yeah yeah yeah I've done a few weights when I was young Yeah well yeah well we actually discussed that on a previous show um about your your weightlifting ability because this this liar over here he reckons George Gan was bench pressing 160 kg he was that's a big weight no he was man he was squatting 180 to 200 I'm telling you it's gone up pound for no pound for pound he was the strongest rugby player in rugby asro P so I threw into the mix you yeah cuz you were what was your biggest bench press uh I don't know 150ish 160 so double your body weight that's impressive well play that stage y was probably 80 y be 82 yes that's started taking creatine in the powder form Sugen suus with the water that was the big supplement back then was we got a um bit of a bodybuilder guy doing our weight stuff and yeah we just chewed the creatine honestly you could see the look of disgust and filth on when you get guys like case Muse would walk into the gym you know and he's got his chest like sticking out like he always does and he's ready to hit the bench press and you got like old cly just banging out a few 140 reps before he's about hit 160 he was doing 200 big case big case was doing 200 short arms though wasn't going anywhere didn't it go he only left didn't have it go anywhere exactly yeah it it was the sevens where you burst on the on the scene um game against Sri Lanka I always say I'm pretty sure that uh they had the cricket team and the rugby team at the airport and the the cricket team ended up in Hong Kong and the rugby team ended up somewhere where they me f Cricket yeah I mean yeah Hong Kong was like for me it was pretty special my parents went there you know four five years previously and it was just the big cuz back then there was I think they it was massive yeah they had I think maybe Fiji was one tournament and then Hong Kong and then Japan so when I come through we only had three big three tournaments for sevens but Hong Kong was the tournament so 95 when I went there um I played the first game scored the first try and then watched every game CU Adrien kmore was playing in my position and uh he was he was the main guy um so and that's when Joan had his had his big tournament like he was he was Unreal in ' 95 at the sevens and like we won today and I was sort of getting the medal at the end and you know getting the photos with the team and I was like like it's cool but I it just didn't feel right you know like cuz I'd only played the one game you scored seven tries against Sri Lanka yeah that was the next one you know about 95 I was there but I just felt like oh it's cool but I wasn't really you know I want to be player gu to it yeah so so I went home and like I got a I was living in a men two by by myself and the only and I got a personal trainer and just trained really hard and and then you need a bit of luck in rugby right and so in 96 um cashy got cashy was injured so I jumped in there and then yeah and then luckily we played Sri Lanka and uh you know little spin Ballers and yeah got seven tries and had a pretty good tournament and um yeah it was cool like I think the cool thing now is like Hong Kong Stadium's closed now right so I think my record still stands so it'll never be beaten so I think 18 tries and whatever 132 points in the tournament so never be beaten so you know records are always made to be broken and which is you know if you keep on playing you'll break records which is which is cool but this one won't be oh it's so good it's so good but that was the start of it for you though right 96 97 like 97 arguably one of your greatest years um let's go into that with the hurricane starting Super Rugby starting what was it 80 what was it 85 games for the hurricanes and 56 I I still I still think your 56 try was against us which I don't think you scored too because I I think Gregs actually tackled you in the sideline like I'm pretty sure you didn't get it but no tmo's back there just whatever the referee says man good to see you not holding on to the pass JP as well you know happened to like now I saw this amazing um tribute to you 56 minutes of all your tries over the years mine goes for 56 seconds but like yours was just what's yours got on it oh I didn't have one I'm no I'm no chrisan Callum but got to see all your tries in 97 like wow what a especially that warar try that what you would I think you guys were getting pumped do you remember that one do you remember that like on your Tri line like you run and you literally run around 17 people and score that try like yeah yeah I mean I think that the that's probably one of my favorite tries but then I think in the corner you see the the um the score and I think it's 4220 we had nothing to lose but yeah I mean that was when stuff like that happens it's pretty cool and you know if you take the score out of it and and just have a look at the try that's probably one of my favorite tries but the one of the the my most favorite try that um my favorite try that I never scored which the one in the sevens in the final against Fiji where um broke out from our own Tri line and then I passed it at the halfway can we slow that down a little bit because what were you thinking cuz you got the ball and you're just about over the dead ball line yeah what what's what's going on there cuz you and the Fijian all over it most people would put the ball down or throw it out or something what are you doing oh we're under yeah obviously under the pump a little bit I think Brad Fleming threw him with the ball and I was pretty much yeah near the dead ball line and yeah and then obviously white jerseys in front of you and then I went to run back the other way and Flo was in front of me and I think I said um get out of the [ __ ] way and then just ran and uh yeah and just managed to to sort of you know weasle my way out and then you know got through then I I knew SBE cuz he's a tricky little bastard was the sweeper and then yeah just hopefully just had to had to draw him had rushy on my left but then had a another fij and a black jumper on my right iwe and um and passed him and he just he and he CED in I think when I spoke to him later on he said that um he was yelling out in fij and saying I've got him I've got him so the other fijians that were chasing me but Ma was outside me going no but I got him I got him so they they sort of pulled up and then I passed it to him and he ran but so that's my favorite try that um that I never scored but but yeah I mean 96 at Hong Kong was was unbelievable the sevens like made you like put you on the and one of the big Personalities in that team was Eric rush and he gave you a lot of nicknames didn't he well he gave me a few none that he ever called me but when you go to functions like with people in suit and ties and uh Chester that was one of yeah yeah I mean so I think when you go to Hong Kong you sort of get there pretty early then you have I don't know three or four sort of of um events through the well most New Zealand um sort of expects living in Hong Kong and you'd go there and the team would be lined up and they he' introduce everybody and yeah I mean I'd as either cie or people that really know me is another nickname is Kenny which is a is a sort of a family nickname but I'd stand up there he went through everybody and then he sort of gets to me and he goes oh you know Christian Cullen um you know we call him Chester and I kind of looked at him I said I've never actually heard you ever call me history for and then he goes oh just like um Chester Williams he was the only at the time he was the only black fell in the s afcan team and then that this time I was the only white I was like before and then you know so okay okay so cool that's cool we just laugh it off I'm a young fellow whatever mate and then the next night we go to another another function same thing so I'm here we go what's he going to call me now and then he comes up to me and then he and he sort of you see that little smir on Rush his face when he he's got something he's got something he goes you know Christian Cullen um you know we call him beer bottle cuz he's empty from the neck up you know I'm only a younger 1920 so I just whatever mate so but I think beer bottle has stuck cuz people St St it to me and I'm like mate have you ever opened up a beer bottle you know there's actually a little bit in the it's not empty there's a little bit there a little and what even on your first your first old blacks team meeting he shafted you as well didn't he yeah he did yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean that's uh yeah that's when you want to dig a hole cuz you I mean walking into like an or environment is I can it's pretty intimidating I don't know what it's like now they probably make you feel more at ease I don't know Mar you would say but I know when I first went in there in 96 like like it was pretty intimidating it wasn't like the old guys would welcome you in you no way put put the hand around you know so I was lucky cuz I I suppose we had like the sevens boys there Jonah was there a few of the Wellington boys were there but our first team meeting sitting down and then Mike B was the um was our manager did his bit and then said oh anybody else got any questions and then rashy puts his hand up and he goes um I was talking to kie and he wants to know um when does he get his Ford car cuz Ford was the sponsor so when you get in the old go get a Ford car and I was like what the and you could see you know Fitzy and uh look around serious yeah and I just said but that's I suppose when people take the piss out of you I mean that's quite of you know that's okay that's It's cool cuz then you feel like you're kind of you know part of the team and you kind of just knew that that's what rushy used to do I always remember Mike B as manager um you were there 99 you probably don't might not remember the story but say he's our old black manager and we arrive at the World Cup in England with all the you know the all the pump and ceremony and all that sort of car but we have to go to a press conference and um you know we they all blacks blah blah blah introduce all the players so Bano has has to introduce all the players so he's going along the list now obviously I don't know there's 32 or however however many players we are so he's making his way um you know through the team and introducing the players you know t r here and Jeff Wilson and Christian cullin he's going along the line and for some reason Bano has a Blanco he gets a nor Maxwell to announce his name and he looks at him and he and he goes uh uh oh taxi and Mexi who was Mexi and he doesn't even call him Mexi looks at him and the rest of us all drop it start cracking up he just completely had one of those situations where not only did he get his nickname wrong but he couldn't even remember his full full name under the pressure Mary what was it like when yeah when he when he came on mate like uh you know obviously he's a mate but um he he knows he's he's probably heard that you know I think he's probably the greatest player I've ever played with and seen and like when when this this player of cie's ability came along and all of a sudden was was doing things on the Rugby field that you hadn't seen before like it was really exciting where the game could go and where we could go yeah um but yeah I just remember that that trial game and like I don't know I think do you remember it very well but I just remember you playing I remember blood two of them I think there and yeah they sort of oh man it's that long ago they sort of mixed into one but I remember you they were probably the last two that we ever played that those sort of games and yeah I mean yeah if you're on one team you fck you know this is this is the team you don't want to be on that one and it's you'd H and then I think usually the you we smashed the other team which was quite nice but it was a pretty intimidating like you say environment to walk into cuz look I only went in at the end of '95 but I was still pretty green in '96 very green and there was some genuine Legends of all black rugby wasn't there in that 96 97 team and we were youngsters us a couple years older than you but walking into that environment was I mean I I rolled in my first roommate was ziny and Hawk oh you both did we both got there it was his too I got it a 95 did you yeah yeah so I rolled in like Hawk Bay playing with Samar and you know zin's walk into my room Zin and Brook I was like there's there's a double bed and a single bed and I said oh what F should I take I did the same thing okay I'll jump in the single um but yeah so yeah and then you go to breakfast and you you're going oh man I hope like a ll or Jonah or someone's in there cuz you don't want to walk in there and there's like Craig D and Ann Jones and Sean Fitzpatrick is there another table somewhere like it just it was really in like I found it really intimidating which I don't know if that's a good thing I think I don't know you know I think the younger guys today the older guys make them feel welcome and because when you when you're at ease and feel comfortable that's I think that's when you play your best and there was always that yeah I mean i i r with a a few players and M I don't you didn't get Boo from them didn't get nothing really and it was just like I thought that would have been the whole purpose of like rooming with someone like that's up there Z was good Robin Brooke was great he was probably one of the man blank Bill he was awesome he was he was awesome a lot of the North Harbor boys were awesome but I had a few rumors that uh man you gone to your room at 8:30 and TV would be off and they' be in bed and you just kind of lie there what's going on we was kind of like oh we we actually like with the Wes like I remember first times sort of 98 99 uh all the old senior players cuz it was all the hangover from the 91 World Cup winners right like so we had that really special generation of that 9199 um I remember Bill Young uh loose head prop in 2000 it was his first tour it didn't actually even play a game and Rod McQueen coach we used to like we used to nickname him chew backer like so we'd go like this one because he always would yell and so we'd be coming home on the bus and someone would start going like this one and go oh Bill Young e can you stop doing that mate and Rod McQueen actually thought it was him because it was all the old players doing it and Rob McQueen thought it was him and actually went at him afterwards like after the bus trip what's the problem bill what's your problem mate like this one mate you're new here I won't pick you again like this one like and because of the old but that's what it was like right the old players initiation um there was never any sort of not necessarily welcoming but you didn't get a hand up or anything like that man you had to prove and fight for every inch that you had man like it was that's just the way it was you was almost like you had to earn their respect before absolutely this is not all of them I'm not this is not putting a a blanket over all of the all of those guys but there's a few of where yeah you to earn their respect before they even like almost even talk to you man like yeah and I was like that's that's a bit sad but anyway that first year 96 could be one of the biggest years in history for New Zealand Rugby and you guys were right center right in the thick of it in your first sort of 12 months in the old blacks like how was that that was cuz I remember getting up in the middle of the night to watch those games in South Africa it's where the kind of the romance of South African tours was ignited for people of my generation and you guys were the stars of it yeah like being there must have been incredible yeah was it was it was a good time yeah it was and and big challenges as well you know obviously 96 um having to go over and try and beat South Africa on their own so four test matches one of them part of what was the TR Nations at that time um and then and then it went on to a a tour and and to achieve that was was pretty unreal but um you know we had a real focused team um but yeah we just had some magic players like like to be honest like what we we' pretty much did um the incomparables the 96 victory in South Africa without Jonah and two degree MZ as well didn't we because MZ got injured J had dropped or injured he was in he was was on one of the Wings and k h came in and John Preston came in and so there there's a bit going on yeah but it was just uh was awesome to be a part of that like um but we had Scotland before that in New Zealand didn't we Su and Scotland and uh there's one there's one stage where and this is again where I knew that that we had a we had a weapon eh because we're playing at carisbrook I'm pretty sure it was the first test there um and they kicked the ball deep and it was back you were back by your goal line somewhere or got the ball back by your goal line and I was tracking back I was rooted so I was like uh oh we're going to get pinned back here and you literally I don't know beat four five six Defenders broke we broke out of the 22 and just and I was just basically like a spectator I was like chilling around about the 30 m Mark and next minute you went flying past me and I was like go go on son go on it was just like I was thinking man we we have got when you think you've got you know Jeff Wilson you know Christian Cullen um John ALU you know and we've got this Firepower it gave you a real sense of you know if we if we can be in games we've got this ability like he did that day against Scotland to open any team in the world up defensively CU it was a a hat trck in your first game and then four in your second or the other way around yeah yeah no it was actually quite a good start CU I yeah I remember um so I got three against SAR my first test and then I was on a plane flying back to Wellington from Hawks Bay and I got on the plane Lorry Mains was I think he was commentating the game so I got on the plane and then uh he was there and I can always remember it cuz he obviously you know Lo and I get on well Lor now and play bit of golf and he's great golfer and I quite enjoy him but he never coached me but I remember him he sent the front of the plan he shook my hand and he goes R gets tougher from here and I was like uh you know whatever just turned 20 still probably a little bit tily from the night before walk back to the play we back give my see the next week I score four tries it was a low main what's he talking about but yeah yeah I know what he means because you know and then we went to Eden Park and against Scotland is a bit of a shitty night and yeah it was it was tougher so yeah I I knew what he meant like it is yeah once you're there you still got to you still got to work bloody hard you just don't don't take it for granted well let's go back to that South African situation because yeah you guys are right in the middle of that and the old blacks have got that situation a little bit going to the world champions for two tests this year how did you guys feel like you belonged at that point because again you're early in your careers you're going up against the world champions you just watched them beat the All Blacks and and the World Cup the year before a massive game do you guys feel like you belonged at that point how were you kind of approaching that yeah it was interesting I mean I guess 96 was like super ugy started so I'd never been to Africa right I don't know if Mar had been before but I'd never played rugby there never had a test match there so Super Rugby you sort of go maybe play two games I actually can't remember but that's a bit different so going going there to play a test match I think we had four so it was yeah it was quite a big tour like yeah I can honestly say by the end like I can remember it probably means more to me now than what it did then like I was only young and I was like man you just want to play test matches and then go have a few drinks and then you know play the next one the sort of history and everything behind it didn't mean as much to me then like if that if that Mak sense like I just remember at the end of it I was really tired like I remember sitting in the change room I was man I just want to go to sleep like I was just tired which he could literally do if you click your fingers yeah but I mean I don't know that could have been just cuz of the whole buildup and everything that had happened and it was just like f man this is cuz there's a lot of people on tour there's a lot of management like we had two buses like it was it was a massive tour so that's yeah so to me now I look back and I go yeah that was pretty cool because that was hard that was hard to win over there like it was everything back in those days like whether it was the referees or buses not turning up or gold watch has been handed out or people called suie doing stuff I don't know like it was really hard there's a lot stuff that used to go on and you go oh that's that's a little I love how you say referees man it took us four years for the brumes to win our first game in South Africa when we went to neutral refs like we won we won our first game man and I got on quite well with some of those referees like after you see them and they were great guys but you go man let a knock on Andre Play on Play On like classic lines but it I mean I loved touring over there cuz it was a whole new world right look like you jumped in the TARDIS went back like 20 years man it was literally in some places like blo ftin and like even joerg it was just and the altitude like this whole altitude thing didn't understand it like the food but it was the people man the people were awesome and the N life over there was a good time yeah yeah I think for us too prob we can I can probably speak for like we're prettyy naive like so you get on a plane to go to Africa so man how long is that it's quite a long flight so man I'm going to watch as many movies as you can you know what I mean like so there's no plan so I used to you watch four or five movies and you fall asleep you wake up then you watch the end of that one and then you get there and then it'll take you till Wednesday because you'd be waking up at 3:00 in the morning you take a blue and you go to sleep and then you know so I'll take you to Wednesday Thursday before you right and you're playing a test match on Saturday but you know I was talking to bod and a few of the boys that travel there now and like it's there is a plan and there is because I've been going there so often like you know by the time you you arrive in s Africa you pretty much almost ready to train the next day and ready to go but we just didn't know any of that stuff you know how much water you meant to drink what you meant to eat what you meant to do on the plane you sleep from this leg to that leg then you stay awake from this leg only watch one movie you can't watch five but the new releases man I want to watch all of them then when you fly back you've watched all of them S one but we just knew none of that so so so now that's why I think you probably see teams going Africa now and they they're doing better they're winning any more games and just cuz they know things are easier it's not as like it was actually quite hard for us back then to travel because we just had no idea how how to travel I guess cuz we were new to it can you guys take us inside the changing rooms at Alis Park like what what it was like before an all blacks test the crowds filled up the stands cie's asleep from his blue he taken what what's let's categorize first um for people out there the Blues he's talking about are not the other Blue Pearl so what they used to call our sleeping pills the little bles not the not the other not the the blue pills anyway we won't digress into that JP will be all night um but stop uh the one thing that I did know was because of the history and tradition of that Stadium remember in '96 a lot of those senior players and we we I was similar like I I didn't recognize the history I didn't probably uh know what we were we had the ability to achieve and then what we achieved um until it resonated with me in the changing rooms afterwards in Petoria but I remember before the game um and winning and the winning that test match there was there was no substitute I remember those senior players in the old blacks you know the guys like um Fitzy even Robie Robin Brook and ziny and even guys like um Frank bun that they simply said we will not win this test series at Alice Park next week we win it here and now m I think and I think that's just why we exhausted ourselves and and everybody like we absolutely because we just didn't feel we felt that they would literally just grow at Alice Park you know test Series history on the line and and that would be you know a big leap for for us to have to try and go in there so it was like win it here win it now and I think that's the Alis part Factor like it's it's ridiculous to a degree and I mean this respectfully cuz this is one of the world's greatest stadiums and it's for to play there like um you'll appreciate this as as a hooker um and I I won't I won't remember the name of them um because it's quite a clever little uh South African name for them but I remember us playing at Alice Park in one of those early years here and it's intimidating so we were driving down in towards the stadium you drop underneath and the crowd was feverish CU you know they they were obviously springb bloody crazy um and they they were Rock we were driving in on the bus and each side they were pushing the bus the bus was rocking from side to side and they were going b b b and just looking out the window thinking this is going to be interesting um and to digress into my conversation and then you're in that that stadium and it's incredible Stadium to play it it's amazing you but you know you're in their Stadium you know and I remember early in the game we got inside the 22 and um uh Fitzy was throwing the ball in to the line out and this guy like fair play on I'd love to know where he is if he's still out there somewhere please step forward just as Fitzy was about to throw the ball in cuz I was standing at the front watching it all eventuate cuz I used to follow the ball in the line out cuz I just couldn't I got the shits with all the line out course like so I just used to follow it along the line I thought that was quite simplistic so I'm watching fit and he's got the ball up like that he's just about to throw it and he gets the back of the head by this little orange I don't know what they call them but some guy had H it from I don't know four or five plac about the Thro things G to throw it jumpers have gone like freaking to run the belly button wa that happened to me on my first time Alice Park man never been there 98 TR Nations final um I was on the bench I was only 21 and Jack Daniels like little hip flas came past my ear Jack Danel like three like um yeah those little oranges come flinging past one hit another Reserve I think Chris Whitaker you know wit sat on the bench for Gregs over 100 tests holy moly I think he only played 20 something he's the baron K of austral yes that's very good very 97 man that amazing try where zeni pops you to the cuz that that was their Catalyst for the change of the wallabies back in 9 27 after you guys dusted the Wes up in Wellington you remember that try one aru I think one of your best out of your 46 test tries yeah is that when oh yeah one one was in denen when ziny caught the ball and he threw it along yes sorry did a little thing and then beat Georgie that one yeah that was that was probably one other favorite Tri yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah which is I mean that I think that just shows um how good than he was in just his vision and and like like when you watch the try you can see I think it was Lam got the ball and then he put a big bomb up yes and then all you hear is this big booming voice like my ball yeah he takes it and Spins it doesn't he oh mean he's got he's got a massive head but he's got quite a big Bo so he catches it and then like I think he must have just a lot cuz I ran and then he threw whatever it was a 20 m a pass Ong the line and like I never called for it it was just you know there's a hole and you run holes and he's seen it and he just had the the courage to throw it and you know that's but I never I always just to say I was Mar will say I was pretty quiet on a on a rug field I never really talk much and and I always thought like the more I talk the more people know where I am so I just just run holes and I was lucky I had guys like tner and and MZ and you know Jonah had ability to to offload and I just used to say to T of bro if you break if you break through I'll just be on your shoulder just give me that one and but I'll never really call for anything and so that one there is a classic where you heard ziny call and then he just looked and then he just wound up and threw a pass and then off I so does does it I know we're going to jump forward because we can we'll certainly go back does it give you the shits a little about the the premeditation that you see a lot in the game now that that instinct that you're talking about has has gone out of the game a bit because what you're saying basically you're just playing what's in front of you and seeing when you're talking about holes you're seeing like I can see a gap I can see a fracture in the defensive line I'm just going to run that line and hopefully the person that I'm going to get the ball off is not thinking oh my role is to uh here um to uh do a little touch pass or to maybe take the contact and set up another that you're just playing yeah yeah yeah in front of you yeah yeah I mean that's that was probably a big part of my game or I mean obviously when we were coming through Mary we the game is different yeah then when we played it like yeah all this all the stats you get and all the preview stuff and all the the work you do before games we never probably did we did probably 10% of that right oh man I don't know like we did we did it yeah yeah yeah but I mean I think when you're watching the weekend like guys like bod you know he ran a hole then McKenzie threw the ball across and he ran like that that sort of stuff you just I love to see you know or or will Jordan and the the offload from TJ to will just runers outside wasn't it big time yeah yeah yeah so stuff like that and then then you get the the the the shape that they Wills second try which is obviously they set up and the shape and someone in the front willing behind and you know it opens up so yeah but yeah there is an element of heads up rugby H but some of our players still have that in with the All Blacks like I'm sure you know bod still has it and if it's on it's on it doesn't matter if you're 5 m from your own line or 5 M from the line like if it's on and there's a a big fat [ __ ] prop in front of hook I'm pretty sure I can take this guy I'm going take him like you just got to go and and just trust and have the the courage to pull the trigger and and go and I think we scored a lot of tries through hurricanes I mean a lot through the Hurricanes where we just had players like that that just had the same um thought process like if it's on it's on we're just going to go and then we had guys like David hell and Jas no and that would understand you know me T Alama Jonah like we just got to get these guys the ball if there's if they think it's on what was it like to play with Jonah like um Prett yeah I was pretty happy when he came to to be fair yeah I mean we played him I played him one probably played him a couple times played him um uh at the school boy stuff and he was number eight and I was playing Midfield and that wasn't much fun when the Midfield taking the big fell down and then played it obviously against him when he played for the blues against hurricanes in the very first Super Rugby game and then man I was so happy when he signed for Wellington and comeing like Beauty um but I always say like I had the best seat in the house like being a fullback and then being in behind uh you know Jonah T like was pretty special and you always knew when Jonah was like we never knew about his illness right we we just thought he was a lazy bastard wild come on get back and like this will work man come on but yeah so what what he did and what he could do and when he got the ball and I scored a lot of tries off you know you get up from something here and you'd see the ball was going Jonah and then you just go bang you just go that way to the the fat man's track and and pick up cuz you knew Jonah was going to beat 1 2 3 four five players and um offload yeah and offload and I mean the key to to Jonah too was to get him a little bit angry and a little bit pissed off and cuz as we talking before like you know when Jonah was in the game he was great but sometimes he could not be in the game so I mean for the Hurricanes we we we had a move that he was Blind Side and would have a move called Chiefs one and Chiefs 2 and Chiefs one was when Jonah would come on the inside and would do a switch and then him but then would that was Chiefs one and would give it to him but the Chiefs two was same move but would pop it out the back so but would tell Jonah CH one so Jonah would come the nostrils go we we would actually we' actually get in a huddle like when we were playing Jonah and go he's not in the game he's not in the game like this one but I reckon he's going to get come soon because it was it was funny playing him man like because you're so right like sometimes he would just wouldn't be in the game but if someone pissed him off I remember that 2000 game when we played at the Ken and chuny Ben Chun said something and when chuny came on Jonah absolutely smashed him like smoked him so the key was never to like never to like piss joner off like cuz sometimes he would go silent in games yeah yeah yeah well that Chief one too when he come in for the chief one we didn't give it to him went out the back and he was wel but's five Defenders standing there waiting for him and everybody else is prospering and the next move will go here you goo but yeah he was um yeah yeah he was pretty special and uh I mean they he was the first you know Global rugby Superstar and you know wherever you went in the world cuz he was so big and just he stood out in the crowd like you know everywhere went everybody knew him and uh like he took it pretty well like we always s like man this guy should have been born in America cuz he just had that that gangster American swag about any buy like a massive car he 30 cars and Stereos and he turn up the train and had a big trench coat on I thought it was the mat get out of his convertible and it be like here I am likeo man yeah he was uh he just but he was so he was so generous and he look after you know some of the boys that were just starting off and you'd be in Africa and he'd buy a ghetto blaster and then you'd leave it there for the maids and like just all these little things that probably people don't don't see like you know he was very very generous and uh and what he had to go through like I don't think anybody had experienced that anywhere in any sport in New Zealand like he was he was that very first guy that was just massive I mean how hard would that be to everywhere you go he's bigger than the game right we're lucky you can sort of roll around and you know put a head on and you be but big guy could never never ever do that was there a time that you you couldn't where you were getting mobbed at all like in in New Zealand especially I got mobed every day man I'm the little little small white guy put my head on like just roll it's it's quite funny isn't it cuz I I mentioned to a friend I was having to be a with to mate the other day I was like oh yeah we got Christian Cullen coming on he's like oh no way we had a chicken called Christian Cullen and it's like that's true you had so many friends that have like a pet called Christian Cen a horse called Christian Cen a car called Christian Cen have you heard of some weird things that have been named after you not chickens anyway well you know you had that TR that har the trotle was pretty cool but I got nothing yeah he he made a lot of money for the owner at least it wasn't embarrassing yeah well that's right the there's a Christian Cullen passing Lane in here in Christ Church and uh yeah Christian C passing Lane Christian Cullen um you know Event Center in the room up in whatever the tring places here so Addington yeah I mean it could it could have been a it could have been a dud horse but it ended up being a a pretty good one so that was foresight that was really good for yeah but hey look I just want to add that um so you you obviously got approached yeah about having a horse named after you and you've got to get give consent for that and as you said you didn't get anything out of it happened to me as well you ever heard about my I was like yeah yeah yeah I think could have even been after the Christian color there's something in this for me go I tell you what this thing M I couldn't get it couldn't get out of the training pic there was there was a complete yeah F fingers on it tell you what thing couldn't run I don't know if they tried to make it jump couldn't jump either I was like I saw my name to this thing I know where it ended up but but we won't go into that but yeah golly at least it was a success yeah yeah oh it was it was cool yeah I mean it was a yeah what I mean you John Hart had a pretty good horse Trotter at the time so that the guy that owned it pretty much R in m and said oh we got a horse it's pretty small but it's got a big hard and it's pretty fast could you ask Christian if we could just name it know back then when I was 20 I was like oh yeah sweet that' be cool you know but I should have said hey man yeah but I didn't but that's you know there was those times and today I'm sure someone said can we name horse after you said M 20% mate speaking of John Hart uh 99 World Cup what was the process involved in the controversy there where you got put in into Center because that's quite a big talking point about that World Cup isn't it everyone looks at oh we had Christian KH playing at Center out of position how did that come about yeah well yeah I suppose there was a couple of people people that wanted to play fullback I guess and um I mean I fullback was my position and Goldie was playing fullback at the time I think as well and um yeah I was probably trying to fit uh yeah there's me Tana Lama Goldie and um Jonah so all trying to have them on the field at the same time I guess and so hardy flew down to Wellington and because I I think because I was young man I just wanted to play right so I was like and he said oh you know how would you feel about playing Center and I was like well I played center when I was at school boy stuff but that's a little bit different to to test match and I think through the Super Rugby I may have played you know a few games there but as we know I think any centers that are any good man they' taken time right so you know our Conrad Smiths and Frank bers and like good centers take time like especially outside C defensively they they start and okay they're okay but over time you know the Maru and Conrad like combinations and it just takes time you need time there so I had whatever a super rugby season before the World Cup to get ready and I mean I'd open I'm not a center I just said yes because I wanted to play maybe you don't like talking to people in the you don't like telling people where you are or communicating so Center is not going to be no no and you know hind Sid and ironically like T was on the wing and he becomes one of our greatest cers you know llama was there and you know so all these little things and yeah but yeah I mean it's yeah I don't know when we played France I mean I wouldn't say that me playing Center lost us that game like there was 25 minutes in that French game in the semi-final that was like that was just unreal like they could have played God and be they couldn't do that again oh my God no we were waiting in the final like we we kept talking about it all week they could you guys you guys were home and H like seriously in that semi-final like we were expecting our actually our poor camera like our video analysis bloke in the 99 World Cup he didn't sleep for 3 days after you guys lost cuz we had no vision on France he he had all the vision on the All Blacks cuz we were expecting and you guys were lead him right like you've never played a game where that 25 minutes was just the craziest 25 minutes but it's one of those things so so we're like leading here then they get a penalty so they take they take a penalty shot like for three points but we were like 24 points up or something and then they'll take a drop go then they do a drop goal I oh yeah okay that's cool and then then they kick one over and it would bounce MZ would run for it and it bounc 15 me that way and bounc into the guy's hands and then heed score and then they kick it through and you know goie was there and it went through and they they you know so they just things happened in 25 minutes that was like far out everything possible that could go their way went their way and that 99 you remember when we used to do the old Captain hurricane yeah what was this well it was more of a hurricane sing with the captain hurricane would used to SL him we score try but I stopped at that day cuz when that dude was it domich Domin scored the try and he ran past us and went like that and I was like so so for that day man I stopped you know the it wasn't really a gloating thing it was more to the boys but yeah now you score tries after that you just like score a try and sweet run back to theway that was actually one of the first times that all blacks you're one of the first All Blacks actually do a celebration after a triy it wasn't an all black thing before that was it really like who I once tried to give Goldie high five and he denied me I think that was in there's actually a footage of him ran off like yeah man like hanging yeah no well yeah that was just the hurricane sing more you know we just have Captain hurricane that used to run around our stadium and yeah we used to do that then he picked it up and so he started sloting everyone and then we sort of I don't know yeah bought it into the All Blacks but I mean yeah I used to try and keep it a little bit down low when yeah didn't used to do too many big celebrations we mentioned before that that in distinctive players that you guys were back in the day there's a few floating around now I mean you look at we mention will Jordan being one as especially at a fullback as far as fullbacks around the world go who do you see as like guys that you love watching play um I yeah just more for me the X Factor players so I mean New Zealand wise I mean I I mean you know bod's I think still got it I love W Jordan who are you starting there if you're picking a 15 14 why is this the most controversial thing in we all do the same thing the big Yeah Yeah well yeah I mean it's bod's got to be there we can't have on the show got be SC two Tri weekend on the wing so leave them on the wing for now okay cool yeah that's all we need so so so if we're looking around the world then you yeah well look did what about like honestly I thought when England came here I was a bit unsure about their attack CU you're always the England's attack you're always wondering where their X factors going to come from and Marcus Smith was very good and I was I was incredibly I don't know intrigued as to maybe the fact that he was being held back a little bit the fact that he'd got the Reigns and the way he went and then this George furbank comes out of nowhere and what did you make of him as a player yeah well I guess it's a combination of both right so you need you need a a 10 that's willing to attack and a 15 that's on probably on the same level W yeah um you can't have a a non-attacking first five and I I don't think in a in an attacking fullback like it just I don't think it works so when you got both of them going and going hard and your forwards are going forwards and um going forward and giving you front football then man that's a tough yeah that's that's tough to stop so so George for I mean look you know with the ball without the ball um just the courage and his ability and the speed and uh rugby brain I mean I think I was I was a little bit worried about England right they were unlucky not to knock the BLS over right like I was that's probably the first time a long time you've been sort of sitting on the edge of your seat for both of those test matches and I know you obviously didn't play the second test match and they probably missed them a little bit but but both of those test matches like far out like this could go either way and I worry that when we go to the UK at the end of the year that that is going to be a tough test match at tockenham so yeah yeah they're pretty both of those players they're they're quality backs oh man they they England were F Steve borwick right the coach like defensively um actually I played against Steve in his first test it wasn't until many years after that he came and told me about this but I was having an absolute shocker like I couldn't hit the side of a barn door that day man I my throwing was like SC if anyway it was Steve W's first test and he was like just throw the ball straight Paul and I was like man who the [ __ ] are you like no one actually even knows what is your name I don't even know your name mate shut up and he reckons he came after the game 80th minute introduced themselves said good day Jeremy I'm Steve like this one and it wasn't until like seven eight years later he came up to me and he goes man you got me that day like I just shut up like I didn't say a word but I I I actually think his coaching personally like I think he's taking the side from Eddie Jones um secondly I love seeing a 15 that is dangerous like every time he touched that that Fairbank man he was unbelievable in that first test every time he touched that ball you're right with Marcus Smith having having an attacking 10 that's how will Jordan makes me feel every time I see Will Jordan touch the ball I think something's going to happen like yeah yeah yeah yeah like of course he's at Wing now at the moment but my goodness If he if he had more opportunity at 15 like but I mean you know that that try that a second try that well scored I think he was involved down the right hand side and then just the thing I lik is just the work rate and his ability to get up and get back into play and be somewhere where he's effective then you see he was in the shape and he was in the back door for the back for the back pass yeah like but he was on the right side before good blocker Runner yeah he was over there and then he's been tackled and there something that's gone but he's got back up and not staying on his wing he's got back out and then he's got in a position to to score a try you see I think when Caleb Clark scored his try you know you got 11 and 14 he's right next to him so that's what I like you know a wing that's what I mean I hey I played wing for years the good thing about Wing is you can go anywhere like that's the cool thing you just roam like fullback you kind of you kind of have to be there you got to stick yeah to a certain extent but Wing AR man you got to license to roam like and Will's just uh he just works really hard and wants to be involved and you know it doesn't look like he's running fast though like he's got quite a deceptive running style like really upright and you try to chase how come he G so quick yeah but I mean I yeah I mean we talk about records and breaking records and I've got no doubt that if he if he's around until three his time he will break every Tri 30 games do you think it's a bit weird that in the modern game like a lot of sides haven't revolved or got a regular fullback like there's no secret that Australia have struggled like Tom Wright's obviously wrestled that to a degree so far but but before this year they've really struggled in that Jersey we we are putting players that are not traditional fullbacks in that Jersey good point a lot um you know again England before sort of George Fairbank really they were a bit unsure South Africa to a degree vly Laro but then sometimes he's on the wing and why do you think there's is this this whole cuz you hear Razer talking about it this whole thing where he wants players to be able to play multiple positions and then we've got this this Jew playmaker [ __ ] that we've been through as well like you like you say you were a fullback yeah you know and and it's a specialist position to me I I feel do you feel it's that way or do you think the modern game has changed that Dynamic G Chang I think it's a yes it's a year n question yeah Wing fullback Wing like I think like obviously you need the similar like the skills the ball in the air and attacking ability and you know defense on the defensive side and you know Counterattack now like there's usually someone else back like a 10 do you know what I mean so Works back as well I'm just trying to think when I when we played when they used to kick the ball like our defensive like MZ would usually be up or not that he tackled but he'll be up yeah so I mean I just think the structures are just a little bit different than what we played so the have the specialist fullback I mean like a will Jordan to me is the perfect guy because he's he can on the wing he can't play that he can play saying as a outside back three outside back three where a guy like civie ree is a Winger a Winger Caleb Clark is a Winger Mark T as a Winger m is a Winger but you I don't if I've answered that question way but you have but did you ever play um even when you went to moner did you ever play against um internationally Jason Robinson and Shane Williams uh yeah because I get off I often get asked this question you know and and I OB I I always say K's the the best player I've seen and they say why and and my answer to that is because he had an ability to beat Defenders without slowing down and that's rare yeah because you see even Jonah like guys when they go to do the big side step you you lose momentum forward it's it's natural science that when you put all your weight on one foot you're going to slow down him Jason Robinson and Shane Williams are three of the players that just spring to mind to me in my time that I played that didn't slow down and that's why they skin Defenders like they did did you play against those guys and how did you find them as players yeah yeah well I think they probably had better feet than me like if I was honest with you like I was wasn't a big um like a shame Williams and Robinson like they were fast they G like we're all more of yeah so I more of a a change of pace swerve like I'll come to you and then you think you got me then I just swerve but I was I had a step but I wasn't a I wasn't like them if you know what I mean and then people would think they would have me and then you know I was quite strong on the hips Maring St Kelly the golf course today man follow through you know yeah yeah well Steven Lam was like that like Steven lam glided it was it was a Glide like my my top three rug like rugby league converts to Rugby Union is ly deiri Jason Robin and sunny Bill Williams number one like only because Sunny bills was so good in rugby league like he dominated rugby league and then dominated Rugby Union but Jason Robinson I remember playing him once yeah his feet man he was the coms the hot Stamper like it was you you would he'd break your ankles like when to go and try and Tackle but he wasn't slowing down when he's doing it his ability to put that footwork on you and yours was a slightly different technique but what you're not doing is slowing down and that that was the thing often I got asked about J I'd like to hear your opinion about defending him um was what people what you don't recognize is how fast he was actually moving like he was super explosive and quick like he he over especially over 20 30 m after 30 m he was losing speed so you see Defenders go and and he's given them him the the given them the bzel brush but that's literally because not only is a big man at 120 kgs but he's moving so you as a Defender like just to catch him you got to get in a really secure good position but he had a he had a really big step so when you go to tackle him you might get one leg but his other leg was already gone yeah and that was stride yeah so he had a quite a big stride so if you didn't like when we played him first against the hurricanes and I tunnel was marking them and we said how are we going to stop him we said well we're just going to cheat so we're just going to come up and try to get offside and just try get in his face as quick as possible cuz you didn't want him to have that 20 m once once he got there like and I tell you now I can you watch Jonah bump people off and Julian S as good as Julian was in his prime and Julian's bumped people if you watch Jonah in his prime when he bumped people man they would go into that wall oh yeah like it I was one of them mate I got just the power he had did you get bumped oh plenty of times mate like you were a judar here is it judar but seriously he would again if he was in the game like he would literally like you get wrapped up in his feet and hopefully you might trip him up Lads we could keep telling stories but cie's going to miss this flight so we're going to have to wrap this up Christian colen thank you very much for coming on the show no worries L thanks having cheers thank you very much for listening to gbrands make sure you check us out on YouTube just search gbrs and check us out on social media as well Instagram Twitter Tik Tok go have a look