Integrity and Public Service with Kash Patel

Introduction [Music] [Applause] [Music] hello everyone and welcome to her on West exec the podcast that brings you insights from those that have served in the corridors of power in Washington in the executive branch of government my name is Andrew Hughes and I'm a board member and CEO of the American Cornerstone Institute or as we like to say ACI this podcast is part of aci's executive branch for America program which focuses on teaching conservatives how to be effective in government especially conservative appointees today we are thrilled to have cash Patel join us uh cash is uh an American Patriot uh Meet Kash Patel and friend and has a remarkable career holding various key positions um we'll dive into his journey gain insights from his experience and here's advice for those interested in public service in the executive branch so cash thank thank you so much for joining us today hey Andrew it's great to be with you my friend great to be with ACI I'm so thankful that you all get together and put out truthful content to help educate Americans it's it's a hard fight these days well well thank you very much we really appreciate uh you and all the collaboration we've done with you and uh my kids are big fan of your books so thank you for sending those uh those are those are awesome um but I guess just to to to kick it off uh can you tell tell our listeners about your career path and how you ended up working uh in the executive branch well if you want to make God laugh just tell them your plan and I guess they've been laughing all the way to the bank but that's the way it's supposed to be I guess I've been pretty blessed to um not have the plan I wanted to unfold and unravel but the plan that needed to and you know and for me I went to law school thinking I'd be the guy on suits I'd be making billions of dollars I'd be super cool and new New York City and uh I learned a few tough lessons early on I I became a public defender right away I was 180 Grand in debt in law school and I was earning a whopping 36 Grand a year but I'll tell you what I loved every minute of it and I didn't know the values that it was teaching me that would come in play later in my career you know i' do that for a number of years and I would do that in the federal courts as well then I became a terrorism prosecutor at the Department of Justice which took me to Washington and sorted my first big foray into to the DC adventure and and that was great National Security work intelligence work I spent time at jck with our special forces operators for a while and then I met this guy named Devon Nunes and uh he was like Hey we got this Russia gate thing and we need somebody to investigate it I said oh that sounds like a terrible idea I want another job um you know the and the rest is kind of history and I found my way to um president Trump's white house uh where I led um his counterterrorism his intell Ence community and um eventually the Department of Defense as Chief of Staff great well and uh a shout out to What does West Executive mean one of our listeners uh Carol uh duning um and she she sent me a message the other day about um just uh you know what certain words mean uh when we're doing these podcasts uh so for our listeners who may not know could you maybe answer what uh the term West exec means yeah uh you know that's the PowerHouse of of Washington DC uh you know there's West Executive Drive over at the White House compound and so for me uh maybe other people have a different meaning of it but that's where you go you know there's an East wing of the oval off of the White House and a West Wing of the oal office the West executive side which is also where the eow executive building is but most importantly it's where the president the vice president um and his immediate senior staff reside and work and operate on West exec on that road that sort of splits the eeob as we call it and the entrance to the Situation Room Absolut thank you so much KES um of Impact of the Executive Branch the of the various roles you had in the executive branch um could you maybe dive into uh what were uh at least to you some of the most meaningful as far as uh impact you know whenever everyone well whenever everyone that I respected who joined up to to serve in any Administration or any form of government the role is simply to fulfill your duty of service and generally speaking that just means do the truthful thing don't reshape the truth of course don't lie and don't become corrupt and so for me I found out the most uncomfortable thing was that our government leadership was committing acts of corruption acts of illegality um whether it was at the Department of Justice or in the intelligence Community or at the department dep of defense and I found that just wildly stunning you know in 2022 America 2023 America and before that to see such a politicization of of my department of justice where I served where where I would come to learn and the world would come to learn through the Russia gate investigation that people and it's not a Republican or Democratic thing it didn't matter if it was RDS it just mattered what position were you in I'm the director of the FBI I'm the attorney general I'm some so I was on the board of this big defense company I was on the board of this lobbying company and the revolving door just kept turning over and over and the people that were committing these acts of corruption the biggest one I can point to is I mean now the world knows this but for a political movement to go to the FBI and say Here's a bunch of money here's a bunch of false intelligence go to a secret Court which I used to use to Manhunt terrorist and lie to theer lie to the judge so we can illegally Sur suril a political opponent you know was just like this is Banana Republic stuff and unfortunately for America it proved to be true and it was a crippling effect that we're still recovering from so I think you know when it comes to service the hardest part of service is exposing those that are in your leadership ranks that you have to report to in government because they will probably take an act of Retribution against you like they have so many Brave whistleblowers yeah no thank you very Biggest Challenge much um and could you share Maybe just uh an example of uh maybe one of your biggest challenges uh while you served and um you know basically how you how you overcame that yeah yeah I mean I think the biggest challenge is not just doing the work when you run into this situation over and over again of government corruption exposing it and proving it to your superiors is one thing or proving it um to the different agencies and branches is one thing one of the hardest things though was basically how do we prove this and show this to the American people that's our ultimate job right we're serving the American people in the Constitution and the mainstream media was one of the most difficult um and still is one of the most difficult components I hate to say it of this apparatus that um I call the Deep State you don't have to call it that but of just this movement to corrupt government agencies for a political Bend and to this day you know the the the main issues I can come up with that now most Americans know Russia gate the 51 Intel letter Hunter Biden's laptop um the classified documents case between Biden and Trump and the disperate treatment of individuals and investigations by our agencies and departments based on what your last name was or whether you resided as an r or a d um it was just shocking and even when the mainstream media was given the truth like when we gave them the documents from the FBI and doj during Russia gate they still lied to the American people and so that's the biggest battle really I thought the work would be hard but I just never thought the mainstream media would continue to lie to the American people in the world because they didn't like or subscribe to The Narrative of the truth that was being put out do do you think that the mainstream Mainstream Media media is uh one of the biggest threats to our Republic right now unfortunately I mean I can't believe I'm saying it but yeah I I I you know Andrew it's it's it's great to have this show because you can go on it and speak truthfully and you we you and I may disagree on policy issues that's different than saying you're a liar you know the mainstream media's knee-jerk reaction is if you disagree with them you're a liar you guys are all lying actually at the ACI because you subscribe to X Y and Z and I believe in one two and three they they they forgotten the difference between opinion shows and news and if we just look at what's going on in modern events I mean let's just look at the recent example of President Trump and Elon Musk I don't care if you agree with them or not but they had a two-hour long conversation last night and if you look at the headlines from the mainstream media versus the headlines from other media sources you might have thought they had a 2-hour conversation about policy and substance and two of the most powerful and intellectually capable PE leaders in the Free World and on the other side they're call they're making fun of how president Trump spoke the the Harris campaign is talking about how awful it is that Elon Musk would dare to use a free speech platform to interview a candidate for the presidency of the United States and the rest of the mainstream media was just tearing them apart remember the same mainstream media that loved Elon Musk tell he purchased Twitter turned it into X and said we're not going to be a censorship machine anymore for the mainstream media I mean there's so many components of this corruption it's really just uh it's tough to navigate so when you when you get into Teamwork uh one of the roles similar the way the ones you uh were in in the Trump Administration how important is it to have people around you that you trust and how important is teamwork uh not only from um inside an a agency but also uh at the White House and going back and forth from the White House to those respective agencies so like for for me I was at HUD but we would we would communicate with the White House on a daily basis we'd go over there all the time uh and so would love your Insight on that um it's critical it's critical because the work is actually done by the agencies and departments as you know uh whether it's HUD whether it's doe whether it's DOD do FBI whatever the White House is the epicenter of it all where it comes together but y'all in the y'all in the agencies and departments have to do the work based on the mission set for by the commander-in-chief so what I wish was there was 100 Andrew Hughes and 50 Dr Ben Carsons or the other way around um and because you know they executed the agenda you executed the agenda uh from the White House and what I learned was from other agencies and departments who weren't effectively run like HUD was with y'all there was that they inserted themselves in the chain of command to say well even though the president said for example go get this hostage or go end this forever war or go take out this terrorism Target the amount of people that would set up hurdles between that agency and the White House's directive command was shocking to me and we go back to the White House and Oval Office a month later and the president was like why isn't this done and you'd have to go out and expose the fact that leadership in agencies and departments were undermining his very directives law lawful directives from the White House so your point is man it's really well taken I mean if every agency and Department actually did what they did during most administrations I believe the last Administration would have been even more successful because there wouldn't have been so much infighting so much leaking of information to damage the National Security of this country and most importantly to damage everyday Americans belief in our government if if if mainstream America not the media just general America looks at Washington and says why can't the White House work with its Department of Defense that's a critical failure not just of operations but it's a critical failure to the American people I mean they're the no fail mission who do they turn to if that's broken no very good point and um I I've Bias seen in different places that uh because Mo most of your you know federal agencies are right there in Washington uh uh in the greater Washington DC area um and most of the uh federal employees that are there they all come uh or they all mainly uh have liberal viewpoints in fact I think there was a a poll or a study done a while back that uh reflected about 89% of career appointees in the Washington DC area are more uh you know liberal leaning um what do you think the solution is to that do you think it's possible to and I'd love your perspective uh as a national security expert do you think it's possible to spread those agencies throughout America or it's critical to keep them uh in the DC area and if so how do we overcome that um bias um in in getting things you know trying to get things done that's one of the pivotal things I talk about in my book government gangsters it's kind of a combination of what you said I'm never going to be the guy that says we need to disband the FBI I'm never going to be the guy that says we need to shut down the goj or stop the intelligence Community I'm the guy that says because of the corruption we've exposed we need massive reforms and Andrew where you started is where I start my corrective measures in government gangsters I don't think we need a building the size of three New York City square blocks in downtown Washington DC to house 7,000 FBI agents I just don't I really don't I think I want 6,555 of those agents scattered Across America to do one thing Be Cops you guys are are cops go chase down criminals go chase down rapists go chase down murderers go make our streets safer and take the drugs out of our community if those locations were spread out throughout the country possibly you'd have uh maybe individuals that would apply for those jobs uh and it'd be more reflective of America as a whole and not the swamp oh exactly I mean I don't blame people for not wanting to live in in and around Washington DC right if I could live in wherever and do this work a lot more people would subscribe to say hey I might want to serve for a few few years that's a great collateral benefit to doing that and same thing with the Department of Justice you know the one thing I I learned there was there are so many men and women who line up after a decision made is made to not get you to yes but get you to no and I just found it mindboggling you know it's one thing if the decision was illegal but it was completely different when it was a policy debate over a lawful decision I served in the Obama justice department whether I agreed with him politically or not was not my call my call was to prosecute the case based on the Constitution and when I was running the Benghazi prosecutions for main Justice I saw Eric Holder weaponize Justice and select targets based on the upcoming election cycle I was I was just blown away that we could do something like that when four Americans had been killed in a terrorist attack overseas so I think you need to disperse the these uh huge huge behemoths in downtown Washington DC and that's step one and a collateral consequence of that is everyday Americans will sign up to do the job down range I also think you just need to do a reshuffling excuse me not reshuffling a complete sort of in andout of the leadership that's been in there that's been responsible for some of these corrosive decision-making processes over the years and so it's a combination of personnel and relocation um I think were the two biggest components and the third would be working with Congress you know tell Congress yes I want to fund my agents but I want to fund them in the field I don't need 6,500 seats in Washington DC I probably could use a thousand more agents in New York City and Chicago alone let's move that funding there so it's a whole of government approach and um it's it's not going to happen overnight and and that that's a good Process segue into my next question for uh individuals coming into potential conservative Administration one of the main reasons we started the exec Branch for America is not uh policy but it's process how can you effectively get things done and what are the different steps to get those things done at whatever agency uh you you might be at or at at the White House so um you know I guess my question to you is uh if you're a new political appointee whether young or uh you know semi-retired retired executive coming in what would be your biggest piece of advice uh to to one of those individuals potentially serving in a in a conserv well just remember the I mean I think this the simplest way to look at it is nobody forced you to sign up for that job and service is a privilege it's not a right and so remind yourself that every day you walk through what the door of whatever agency Department White House you're at I did that every single day and I said look there's a leadership chain of command there's a rule of law and a constitution we have to follow and if I can't follow it so much so because of my personal position then I should leave the government is entitled to not only a duly elected president but the president is entitled to appoint citizens that subscribe to his ethos after a lawful election process and I think that was thrown out the window in the Trump Administration and you saw people seed themselves into positions in government that said we're not going to subscribe to whatever you say because we disagree with you that's not service that's abdication of Duty and a violation of your oath of office remember everybody that comes to government swears on the Constitution that they will uphold the Constitution if you violate the chain of command the rule of law and the lawful orders placed upon you you're violating your role in office so it's it's a it's both a personal and business decision what you know that's my advice to folks coming in you got to make sure that you subscribe to the election results and the mandate that was given to that Administration and if you can't just wait it out there'll be another chance to serve down the road no exactly um is uh is there anything you know looking back um at uh your tenure is there anything you would have done differently oh man oh wow that's a great question um I think it it it maybe a better question or is there is there and again because this is this is uh advice to potential you know future conservative appointees um just you know uh the first time you served as an appointee is there something you would have done differently or that maybe um uh just a good piece of advice of someone that's just starting out like for instance when we first got to uh HUD every single thing uh that you do your phone call your text messages your emails are subject to the Freedom of Information Act and we always did everything right uh we started every uh day you know saying is it ethical legal moral and consider the Optics um but you know people are communicating you know hundreds of times a day through text email and so every single thing that is on an email is subject to freedom information act and a lot of those things can be taken out of out of context so when I first started it's like you know remember all these uh laws about everything you say or do uh will be uh public no that's right that that was actually I learned that lesson from um one of my uh buddies who's in the Special Forces he said listen when you write or email response to your chain of command write it out and walk away don't hit send because you need to take the emotion out of your decisionmaking process you need to take the emotion out of what you leave and document and that you should totally do that by the way you shouldn't not document because you want to hide something that's the opposite of what you should be doing what should be doing is overd douen because that documentation belongs to the American people and when an investigation is called upon because look humans make mistakes a lot of times it's just that it was a mistake unfortunately the mainstream media wants to make a piñata out of someone and a political opponent out of someone so they turn that mistake into some sort of you know evil error and so for folks coming in for the first go round or for folks who are willing to line up and serve I would say you got to take your passion and emotion and check it at the door as well you know your job is to do whatever role you sign up for and you're not supposed to be a political proponent of whatever rules or commands are coming down from the chain of command you're supposed to just Implement them and if you have a difficulty in implementing them then you take that to your super supervisor but along the way you're supposed to document that and I think a critical component excuse me and we learn this you know one of the most outrageous things that I think I can relate to here in modern news is that stock Peter stro and Lisa Page who were the FBI lead Counter Intelligence agents and lawyers who drafted the illegal fisa and submitted it to the court and lied to the court about evidence of Innocence along with a whole host of other things you know I got their text messages from their work phones and we now learn the consequence of what they put on their work phones they took their personal opinions and put them on their work phones they took their political personal proclivities and put them on their work phones um and they exchanged them freely while they were investigating and running this unlawful operation to go to a fisa court and illegally surveil a presidential candidate and they were dismissed after we caught them and rightfully so because they violated a whole host of code of conduct rules at the FBI and probably the law what just happened last week or two weeks ago was mind-blowing even to me the Department of Justice rewarded stro and paage with $2 million because the government released their text messages um I I don't even understand the the the logic on that one but I bring them up as an example of what they did and take their personal lives to business and use government operations and government devices to implement government jobs and services based on their personal beliefs is the one thing you can't do but they were so arrogant they said we don't care we're just going to use these devices and phones for everything we do not to mention the fact that we're going to have an illegal affair with each other while running a CI investigation at the the FBI so it's it it's sort of Washington DC in a nutshell if you want a reward or a promotion screw up if you want a really big one screw up really big um and that's the opposite of the advice I want to Embark upon your audience do the right thing document it and remember everything you write you should write as if it's going to be on the front page of tomorrow's paper and because that's what it should be ab ab Was it worth it absolutely and it's interesting said that about the $2 million you know uh myself Dr Carson our wonderful founder and chairman of American Cornerstone Institute um the current Administration act actually uh leaked hundreds of people's uh private information Social Security numbers credit card numbers um in uh you know it it was supposedly an accident but uh you know I don't know maybe maybe we can get uh a couple million dollars out of that but I won't I won't I hold my breath but that'd be that'd be great um so you know for uh people interested in coming into uh an executive branch uh or into the executive branch um you know do you think that they can really make an impact like was it worth it to you would you would you do it all over again I would do it all over again 100% And that's because it wasn't planned for me or it didn't go as I planned it to go I ended up in government for 16 years which if you you told my law school self that I would have been like you should bet all the money in the world and the universe that's not going to happen um and so I was very fortunate I was very blessed to the the journey I got to take and and and the um positions I got to help were really humbling so but I would tell people those that come into government to say I want to be the leader of that or I want to be the head of that you're doing it with the wrong mentality I've never done that I've never had that mentality I don't believe you know I'm not speaking for Dr Ben Carson or you but I I think you've had that mentality either you came in to do the job and wherever that job took you or whatever opportunity came up next as long as you were doing the government work you signed up to do I think you'll see those opportunities come up if you're like I want to be this in three years I want to be that in five years I want to do that in seven you're going to have a painful government career or Worse you're going to end up like some of these government gangsters who outlin their career on day one and say this is what I'm going to do for the next 20 years and this is where I'm going to go and no matter what I'm going to get there that's not service service is signing up and doing the job you're supposed to do on day one and do it every day you're there and if you want to leave leave and if another opportunity unveils itself and you want to take that one on do so absolutely absolutely so just with Best days are ahead the um the state our country is currently uh in do you think uh do you think America's best days are uh still ahead or do you think we've kind of passed the point of of no return our our best days are definitely still ahead we saw some really bright spots in the prior Administration and um you know whether you vote one way or the other really isn't important to me my mission is to make you go and show up and vote and do so on the truth and I think America has learned over the last 10 odd years-ish that too much of our government has lied to them there have been great Americans that have served and great Americans that have done awesome things for America but the ju Theos of the two next to each other over the last seven to 10 years has really shown and exposed some Monumental historic levels of corruption in the government and so that's why I think our best days are ahead because we've seen what we can do we've seen what we can do to secure our border we've seen what we can do to end the forever Wars we've seen what we can do to prioritize American intelligence and put our military veterans and cops first and other things like that but we've also seen the dark side we've seen what Justice weapons of Justice can do to to prosecute you based on your religious orientation we've seen what intelligence can do when it's repositioned to focus on things like Dei and global warming instead of say terrorists and so America now sees a stark contrast and I think the great part about that is if what if we could just remove the corruption and just do the good and that's why I think the greatest days are ahead I think America's learning that and I think we can succeed if we just put the truth out for the American people people to pull the lever on Election Day I I believe that we'll get to the right decision well well thank you very much and thank you for for your service and um just your willingness to fight for our country um you know everybody kind of has their why my why is my you know my wife and kids my kids are you know three and a half and one and a half and I want them to to grow up in an America that that I grew up in and uh we have a very special country but um you know cash thank thank you so so much for joining us today it's been a real privilege and um until next week uh to our listeners thank you all for joining her on West exec