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some kind of prop that was built the the construction doesn't look like it lends itself to actually hanging somebody it's more of a prop I think as you suggested that was erected on January 6th uh but if the president were correct that the these Gallows were erected to hang Mike Pence that would be a very serious allegation wouldn't it I would take it very seriously yes is has anybody been arrested or do you have any leads in conjunction with the erection of this um Gallows we had a picture here on the screen if you can show it uh again it was just up there there was there's an individual here who's seen on near this these Gallows is he been arrested have you identified this person you know I don't I don't know that I could speak to this specific person or or the The Gallows that are pictured on the image you know we have had I think 850 people who have pled guilty uh to federal crimes uh related to January 6th and I think uh you know another 180 I think it is convicted uh at trials um so I just I can't be sure and some of them merely for going into the capital but here the president suggests that individual intended to hang vice president Pence uh which is seems like kind of a wild claim myself given the construction of those Gallows but if we are to take him seriously or even if we aren't we're let me just finish by saying this if you have no leads or you're not sure if anybody who erected those Gallows was arrested or is being investigated uh you know were there any confidential human uh sources involved from the FBI or any other agency in the erection of that prop those Gallows I'm not aware of anything like that all right thank you I yield back gentleman Yi's back uh General lady from Washington is recognized thank you Mr chairman welcome director Ray political violence of any kind is dangerous unlawful and totally unacceptable just as we all watched and then unequivocally condemned the attempted assassination attempt on our former president I wish that we could all come together to unequivocally condemn the act of political violence on January 6th instead of Defending props that were used that were harmful dangerous props of gallows attempting to show what people wanted to do to vice president Pence extremists attempted to subvert our democracy and the worst assault on the US capital since the War of 1812 many of us were trapped in the gallery that day we feared we would not make it out insurrectionists were chasing down former speaker Nancy Pelosi and then vice president Mike Pence and I myself have been the direct Target of political VI violence when an armed man with a gun showed up at my door threatened me and my family and we actually ended up having to move our home so I understand the increased tenor of political violence that is racking our country it has been on the rise fermented by violent and dehumanizing rhetoric from Top public officials including the former president and members of Congress sadly and bolstered by the proliferation of easily accessible guns including assault style weapons all of this violence is unacceptable and I wholeheartedly condemn it I just hope we condemn all of the violence not just one or two incidents Mr Ray today I want to focus on the role of the FBI and the need for the bureau to remain politically neutral and independent the FBI cannot and should not be subject to the whims of any president the majority apparently doesn't think that the FBI needs to be politically neutral and independent they want an FBI subordinate to the president not accountable to the American people that is one part of a larger plan to undermine our democracy to remove the checks and balances that have protected us and ultimately to subvert our freedoms that agenda promulgated by the former president his Loyalists and their Mega allies is called project 2025 it is publicly available online I encourage everyone who's watching this to Google it it includes plans to undermine every part of our government including the FBI Trump's project 2025 agenda says that the director of the FBI must not be independent of politics but instead must do whatever the president orders under Trump's project 2025 Trump loyalists would undermine the non-political and independent structure of the FBI project 2025 openly calls on the next conservative Administration to support quote a vast expansion of the number of political appointees in every office across the doj especially the FBI and so Mr Ray given your extensive experience as a law enforcement professional at doj across multiple Republican and Democratic administrations why do you think it's important that the FBI maintain political independence from the president I think the FBI is needs to stay independent and that means protecting American people without fear or favor upholding the Constitution and the rule of law and it means following the facts wherever they lead no matter who likes it and I add that last part because the essence of Independence and objectivity is not that an investigation is going to always yield the result you want our independence and objectivity can't only be respected when you like the outcome that's the the very essence of objectivity sometimes you're going to like the result sometimes you're not going to like the result that applies to everyone including us any number of times we're disappointed and frustrated by the results of our investigations but the alternative is an erosion of the rule of law where the only thing that distinguishes uh one investigation for another is power and that's what you see in some of authoritarian countries around the world so I'm not familiar with this particular no I I I didn't ask you project thing I don't know anything about it but I what I can tell you is from my perspective the FBI needs to be uh functioning as independent doesn't mean it's not part of the executive branch it doesn't mean the FBI director doesn't serve at the pleasure of the president but it does mean that the way we do our work has to be OB has to be inde yeah thank you I have I have another question about the role of Attorneys at the FBI office of general counsel um how do we protect that work I'm sorry could you repeat the question the role uh what role do the attorney at the FBI office of General Council play in ensuring that the bureau respects the constitutional rights of American citizens how do we protect that work so uh the in my experience the lawyers and the office of general counsel uh play an incredibly important role in ensuring that our agents have their questions uh about how to comply with the law and conducting their work answered uh and ensuring that we conduct our work in the right way which means scrupulously adhering to the laws and the rules that apply to us I just wanted to say before I yield Mr chairman that the the project 2025 also eliminates the FBI's office of general counsel in-house lawyers who are responsible for that role I appreciate your Indulgence and I yield back gent lady yields back gentlemen from Wisconsin's recogn yeah thank you Mr chairman uh I think it was when you were here December of last year um Mr Ray that uh you said blinking lights were going off in regards to the southern border and what is happening down there um have the Border situation improved in terms of your assessment with the security of Americans since you were last year in December well I guess a couple things and I appreciate appreciate the question so first the the blinking lights comment that I made uh refers more broadly to the threat environment that I'm seeing as FBI director across a wide range of threats contributing to that in a variety of ways are the threats that emanate from the border so it's not not a comment just on the border issues it's it's the threat environment that we face more broadly in my experience in law enforcement um I am increasingly concerned that uh foreign terrorists could seek to exploit vulnerabilities uh at our Southwest border or at other ports of Entry or in other aspects of our immigration system uh to facilitate an attack here in the United States I think that is something we have to be concerned about there's been a lot of focus on numbers numbers of this numbers of that and I understand that but uh as I think was referenced in an earlier question it doesn't take very many foreign terrorists to be a real problem we had 19 hijackers responsible for the 911 attacks uh and we just not that long ago had a case some of the members of the committee will remember where we charged an individual for trying to smuggle individuals in to uh assassinate former President Bush are are you concerned that um the border patrol Chief former border patrol Chief Rodney Scott said that he was very he was concerned about very very minuscule data that they're receiving so there's all this um we are told that um illegal aliens are vetted against databases but oftentimes they're doing Biometrics as they come into this country but not looking behind it in their home countries does that concern you when there's not a review done in the Home Country well we certainly need as much help as we can get from the countries of origin uh these people when I say origin not just where they come from originally but countries they've come through and the biometric enrollment piece uh is of course an important one we have situations where even if are we doing a thorough enough job of reviewing them their actions and their lives in their home countries before they came here well I mean we need more help uh from our foreign Partners uh there's no question about that uh and I think that's an important part of our domestic Partners like the CIA and others that are supposed to protect this so uh there's been a lot of discussion uh of course over the last several years about the uh the pivot to what it's called the hard targets right the understandable Focus which I support uh of of focusing on the threat posed by China and Russia and Iran uh but with that comes if you look at for example the withdrawal from Afghanistan you we start to lose sources of information about foreign terrorist threats from overseas and that is that is a concern to me yeah my time's running out um has vice president Harris met with you in regards to the Border well I've been in meetings uh with that have included the vice president uh that have in different ways touched on Bo she specifically asked you for a meeting in regards to um the threat that is at the Border you know I'm not going to get into sort of specific meetings but I can tell you that I've been in meetings that have included among other people the vice president that touch on border security issues did she ask you questions about what you thought needed to be done in regards to reducing this threat to the American people you know I I really can't get into specific conversations is support for president Trump a security concern within the FBI I'm sorry I couldn't hear it is support for president Trump a security concern amongst your employees no is objection to the covid-19 vaccine a security threat not from my perspective um who improved the what is termed the Trump questionnaire within the FBI that was done by siis Dena Perkins Jeffrey ventry were behind it who was responsible for that and did you know that there was a trump questionnaire out there so the document you're asking about uh is an interview outline that we only recently learned about and that my view is completely inappropriate I asked my team to get to the bottom of what happened and to ensure that doesn't happen again and I've learned that it's not an FBI form that its use was isolated that it was created not by an FBI employee but by an outside contractor and that individual is no longer affiliated with the FBI but we are sending what we have found to the office of in ector General to and we'll cooperate of course with anything they Mr chairman I'll just close with this um we keep hearing about these isolated examples whether it's Richmond Catholics this instance when is it isn't it a pattern I yield back G you back Mr CA thank you Mr chairman and uh director Ray welcome again to this committee and I want to thank you and your agents for good job you're doing to protect Americans um earlier this week I was part of the group that went out to visit Butler Pennsylvania Homeland Security members um I agree with my colleagues that have said violence has no part in our democracy and I trust you will investigate the events surrounding July 13th early I'm going to ask you a question um hope you'll keep it in mind as your investigation proceeds which is who's in charge who's in charge at a campaign rally setting it up secret service or a campaign and I asked this question because when I was there had a couple of law enforcement individuals alluding to that question as well they gave me an example they said um if a secret service says you need to set up a line of dump trucks behind the stage to serve to protect the candidate and the campaign says that's bad Optics who ends up winning the debate so my question is who's in charge and as you investigate this crime scene hope you asked the locally elected officials I spoke to a County Supervisor local police and Sheriff they all had information they wanted us to know to relay we just didn't have the opportunity to sit down and talk to them um there was a lot of concern that they weren't given enough time to prepare for this rally they thought they were things that could have been done better and ultimately what I keep thinking what I keep coming back to is question who's in charge at these rallies I think it's an important one because we have an election right around the corner Pennsylvania Butler these areas Battleground states around the country will continue to be areas where our candidates both sides will show up and the threats will continue to be there so I hope director a that you'll keep that statement in mind as you continue to investigate this crime scene well I I appreciate the question uh I will tell you that we've conducted well over 400 interviews but we have many more still to conduct uh and as is Not Unusual an investigation I'm sure there will be situations where we have to go back to people we've already interviewed with follow-up questions um and our interviews cover a wide range of people I do think it's important to make sure uh that the committee and and the American people understand uh the scope of our investigation versus the scope of others our investigation is focused on the shooter and his attack uh there is of course uh and I understand completely why uh two separate there are two separate reviews one by the DHS Inspector General and the other by this outside independent panel that's been announced that are focused on the security posture the adequacy of the security posture at the rally Secret Service decision making and actions and things like that and so I certainly understand why there are all those questions um but those are those are in scope of those two other reviews and of course whatever you know Congress uh chooses to do our investigation though because of our interviews of people who are on the scene will relate to that in some ways and we're going to share whatever we learn that's relevant with those other reviews director a my last minute that I have I'm going to flip quickly to your good job resources earlier this year in the Appropriations Committee you testified that you were for 20124 your budget was 500 million below what you needed to sustain your 2023 efforts few minutes ago you talked about foreign terrorists the last few weeks I know information has emerged that information came from fisa information that was able to be collected overseas on these possible terrorist threats what we have here today is a domestic terrorist what looks to be a lone wolf your statement there's nothing really there that would have tipped anybody off to this individual is that what I'm hearing from you well I don't know that i' go quite that far because we're still investigating uh a lot related to the shooter it does appear so far that we're seeing Less in his my six seconds I would just say I would ask that you let us know what resources you need to protect the American public in our candidates in our democratic system I I would I appreciate the question I would just say this we are in as I've said consistently today and for quite some time now we are in an elevated threat environment covering a wide range of threats and the FBI is Central to protecting American people from those threats and state and local law enforcement who depend on us every day uh rely on us for all sorts of services databases forensic support training I could go on and on and on and a lot of those departments unlike the FBI have had a hard time recruiting and so this is not a time to pull back on our funding because we're going to leave our brothers and sisters in state local law enforcement twisting in the wind and and then by extension the American people were all collectively sworn to protect thank you and Mr chair I yield Jan yield is back gentleman from Texas recognized thank you chairman thank you director Ray for being here um when did you last speak with President Biden I don't have the exact date but it's been certainly since the uh you know since the shooting so you have spoken to the president since the assassination attempt on President Trump's life yes sir and what was the mental state of the president we had a perfectly professional conversation um and are you uh do you have any scheduled briefings of the president uh upcoming uh not at the moment specifically scheduled no um in 2016 and 2015 top FBI officials uh infamously texted about quote their insurance policy to make sure Trump was never elected or inaugurated as president have any FBI agents texted emailed or expressed disappointment that Trump survived the assassination assassination attempt or otherwise editorialized about the assassination attempt uh I don't know about any agents uh there have been uh at least two instances I think or one instance of an individual uh who posted something uh that I consider outrageous and totally inappro apprpriate um and unacceptable and that individual has been referred to our Inspection Division which is the arm our sort of internal affairs investigatory arm that that does the disciplinary process okay will you report back to this committee any other incidents I'll do my best to to share information with the commit uh you testified earlier that the FBI maintains high standards irrespective of of so-called diversity efforts um is it true that in December of 2016 former director Comey lowered the passing standards for phase one one uh allowing an influx of previously unqualified applicants to continue in the hiring process who normally would have been stopped back in December of 2016 yeah I can't I can't speak to director comey's um changes I can tell you that that at least since I've been director changes that we have made to uh we're standing on a specific question where standards changed phase one this a specific part of the process were they changed in 2016 well I don't recall if they were changed in 2016 obviously I started as your question presupposes after that what I can tell you is since that time we have made changes to various phases of the process but none of them this is important none of them lowered the standards in fact if anything they actually increased are you are you familiar with reporting that we have and we've asked questions to you about this I'm not sure the result of the question is that a more to more quote easily accommodate a larger pool of available applicants FBI special agent hiring standards have been relaxed and requirements measurably lowered this according to a group of former agents who have testified about this and WR a report and submitted it to Congress in addition specifically uh minority uh people with 20-year careers one in particular a minority served for more than 20 years uh wrote in this report and submitted it to Congress saying that these standards were in fact lowered and that in fact if you were hiring you were moved off of hiring if you put quality above these kinds of Dei requirements do you reject this report and do you have comments on this report I haven't read aware of the I'm aware of the report I know that I've read every detail of it but I can tell you that the claim that we have lowered our standards to be less selective and less competitive is not accurate so so do you believe these former agents are lying to Congress when they submit a report to Congress stipulating and suggesting otherwise are you saying that they are lying I'm saying they're mistaken okay but they're affirmatively on the record they're telling us and submitting a report to Congress saying that those facts are directly in contradicting what you're testifying here today so I just want to be clear so we know we're saying that they are submitting uh evidence to our record to the contrary that you say is untruthful I I I encounter all the time when I when I travel around the country and have conversations with our agents and I one of the things I try to do is have meetings with some of the longer serving agents without executive man my only question is and my point here's the implication is untruthful so I I need move on I got one minute left are you familiar with the case of Paul at harlo she's a 75-year-old elderly woman from Massachusetts with a debilitating medical condition um she was prosecuted for violating the phas act and sentenced to two years in prison she has to go to Texas in 2 weeks she was praying at an abortion clinic in Washington DC the FBI interrogated investigated her do you think it is appropriate for a 75y old woman who is praying at a clinic in DC to be put in prison for two years for that activity just simple question do you think that's appropriate I I'm not familiar with the specific case you're not familiar with that case it's been significantly in the headlines but so but you don't know how to comment on that case that it's appropriate for 75y oldold woman to be put in prison for 2 years for praying at a clinic again I'm not going since I'm not familiar with the case I don't want to start weighing in because I don't know all the facts but what I can tell you is that when it comes to face act enforcement and abortion related violent extremism I think one of the things that gets lost and I appreciate the opportunity to clarify it is that really uh since the do's decision actually more of our abortion related violent extremism investigations have focus on violence against pro-life facilities as opposed to the other way around and we've had a number of investigators we using faac resources and our jttfs we're still waiting on responses on letters that we've sent uh indicating the data to the contrary there's been significant amount of efforts in targeting of people who are pro-lifers who go to clinics and that they've been prosecuted like this case a 75y old woman who is now going to jail in Texas for two years because she was praying at a clinic in Washington DC and we've submitted uh questions on that and I'd appreciate a response on it y back gentlemen yield back GLE from Pennsylvania is recognized thank you so much and thank you director Ray for being here and for the work uh that your team does as well as for sharing the information that you've been able to today um you just got a couple questions about um that seem to imply that there was some problem with um the FBI's diversity efforts and certainly the 1950s version of the FBI was singularly um Caucasian male agents Etc um is the FBI a better Force for having a diverse range of uh employees and agents I think diversity makes us better but like everything else it has to be done the right way I think we can have a more diverse Workforce and do it without lowering our standards and that's in my view what we've done and and you haven't lowered standards at the FBI we have not I repeatedly come across people who are confused about different parts of that and I appreciate the opportunity to set that straight thank you yeah I think we're all concerned here as we've seen the roll out of this project 2025 that purports to try to eliminate any reference to um diversity efforts across the entire federal government so it is sort of a top of Mind concern as it's uh threatening to become reality so what I did want to talk about today is something some of my colleagues have mentioned which is the normalization of threats and violence against public service at all levels whether it's election workers or school officials elected officials in their families judges federal law enforcement agents and others to be clear um I think it's very clear that the majority of Americans wholeheartedly condemn any sort of political violence and understand that it's not legitimate uh discourse and that it has no place in our our Civic life but words do matter and they have consequences particularly when uttered by people in positions of leadership so that's why why I remain very concerned by the willingness of some members of Congress to repeat disinformation and conspiracy theories that undermine trust in our public institutions which serve all Americans and when elected officials Embrace overheated or fact-free rhetoric it becomes dangerous um I have been heartened as many national leaders have unequivocally condemned calls to violence and I would urge all members of this body uh to do so and continue to do so regardless of the party affiliation of the perpetrators or the targets of such threats um you and our other National Security officials have repeatedly warned us that foreign actors are actively working to spread disinformation to influence our elections and discredit our public institutions and we shouldn't be aiding and edting them um so to live in a country that we aspired to where our most valued Democratic processes like free and fair elections can be carried out in un Ed and people can run for office serve their communities and exercise their right to vote without fear of violence um we've had some concerns about violence around our elections in 2020 the endorsement and promulgation of falsehoods about the election results by the former president and and his campaign led to threats and attacks against election officials and pole workers in Pennsylvania and those falsehoods also wasted millions of taxpayer dollars on frivolous lawsuits and and extraordinary security costs so as we're again approaching November we want to ensure that those who Implement and defend our elections our neighbors and our nonpartisan civil servants can do that important work free from conspiracy theories and threats so we know our local law enforcement across Pennsylvania are preparing for some disruption and threats um because while Pennsylvania may be a Battleground state in the upcoming election that b attle should obviously be a war of words over policy and the vision we're charting for our country's future not an actual Civil War so how is the FBI working with state and local law enforcement to prevent and respond to election related violence particularly against election workers so in a variety of ways we're partnering with state and local law enforcement obviously the uh physical security in the first instance uh in most of the respects you're talking about is in the is in the ordinary course the responsibility of state and local law enforcement but uh we play an important role in a number of ways so we share you know threat bulletins information like that about things to be on the lookout for things we're seeing uh if we ever have specific threat information then we work to get it to the right people we have election crime coordinators which we've had for decades uh in all 56 field offices who have existing relationship with not just State local law enforcement but election officials uh especially focus on on security and threat related uh issues uh and then of course we're participating in the election threats task force uh that doj set up which in is focused on threats of violence or actual violence against election workers specifically and we've had a number of arrests and and even some convictions already on that thank you for your input I yield back G back director uh it's my intention to go approximately another half an hour um then we will we break for the prime minister of Israel's address to the Congress um on on the floor give you a chance for lunch and then then resume after that but we'll we'll keep pushing through for the next half hour if we can General lady from Indiana is recognized thank you Mr chairman uh thank you director Ray uh I think you have a little bit better tone in conversation so I appreciate it you know and answer some questions so I appreciate it hopefully you'll answer also in two letters that I send you a year ago one related to Durham report and the other one related to russan infiltrated sbu that collaborated with FBI so hopefully we'll get his answers and hopefully we'll St do authorization don't you think D authorization would help us to get better answers Congress should be probably working authorizing new agency don't you agree with that uh we work very hard to try to get information to this committee and to other committees well but authorizing spending probably would be a good thing for us to do don't you agree oh I'm sorry author what our spending not just doing appropriating but actually doing authorization of spendings for this committee yes okay thank you we might start doing that uh but um we can talk about and a lot of uh my colleagues on other side you know AR-15 gets a lot of bad rep you know like to bring it up this issue but really there are a lot of hunting rifles that probably maybe even more accurate than a lot of ARs and don't you we have like Millions right don't you agree we have millions of rifles owned by law Biden America an so do you you know do you think we should be taking them millions of rifles from law biding Americans what do you think about that would that be something feasible and really we should be doing that well again I I'm not going to be addressing anybody's specific legislative proposal uh from our perspective from the FBI's perspective the concern is any dangerous weapon in the hands in the wrong hands all the of the wrong person all weapons are dangerous right I'm sorry all weapons are dangerous knives are dangerous exp weap are by their very going to be confiscating you know hunting rifles and rifles for millions of Americans do you think it's even feasible to do something like that from laow biding citizens it's not something I'm advocating okay well thank you I appreciate that so we have to go back that was a catastrophic failure of security that what happened you know recently with attempted assination don't you agree with that well I I think uh former director cheel has already uh public acknowledged uh that it was I think her words were a significant operational failure then we had you know similar situation and different you know talking about bad Optics be Pelosi at that time didn't want to have bad Optics on January 6 and we didn't have proper security here in January 6th that was a catastrophic failure too are we looking at that anyone conclusion was made from that have we made any adjustments because not a lot of people you know got hurt now just being here it was a lot of cases burning up Department of Justice and there were a lot of them are really just low Biden Americans that really just upset with the government and they have a reason to do it so I think we need to think about it before we prosecute or instead of actually you know looking how we can deal with real criminals and how we can have a proper security when we have events with so many people there so did you uh did you have confidential human sources I think you never answered that question on January 6 in the capital did you have some I'm sorry what's what's confid confidential human sources did you have them on January 6th in the capital again I'm never going to be getting into when and where we have or have not or have not used confidential human sources are you will understand the record that you had you know you had no confidential human source that went into capital in January 6 as I've said consistently I'm not going to get into where we have or have not use confidential human sources I can tell you that if you are asking if the violence at the capital on January 6th was part of some operation orchestrated by FBI sources or agents the answer is no no I didn't I asked so did you investigate if you any confidential human sources did you do any investigation and looking at that you're not answering if you had any or not so if you had potentially did you do anything you needed to make sure to investigate that none of your sources did anything wrong if they did wrong they they were prosecuted the same way like you're trying to prosecute a lot of people that really even cons in Supreme Court rule recently that some some unconstitutional charges let me just add that there have now been I think 180 individuals who've gone to trial in addition to the 850 who who play guilty right but I think the problem is you put discharges a lot of people would put guilty but let me say just quickly because I only have 10 seconds really so I hope you will take seriously what you're doing you know related to the border security is also a crisis you know have your vice president was a leading on that has she actually she initiated meetings with you to lead like weekly or monthly meeting where she actually get briefings from you as a leading bordar that had that function have you had that have she initiated any meetings on a regular basis was you g time has expired the gentleman can can respond right I I on this issue of confidential human sources number one I will say there is an A doj oig in uh review that's under underway that I think addresses some of these kinds of topics uh I believe but I won't speak for the Inspector General uh second as to this suggestion which I've heard uh all too many times that somehow January 6 was orchestrated by FBI agents or human or sources uh I will note that in addition to my prior comments that there have now been 850 is uh individuals who've plad guilty and other 180 who've gone to trial they've all had access to defense Council Discovery all the things the Constitution and the rules provide them it's been in front of something like 15 different judges I think dozens of juries and not one has given Credence to this notion and in fact I don't think any of them have even really seriously tried to raise so it's not just my word for it look what's happening in the cases thank you uh gentleman from Colorado is recognized for 5 minutes thank you thank you Mr chairman thank you director Ray for being here for your testimony today for the work that you do each and every day and that your Frontline agents across the country do each and every day to protect Americans to keep our country safe also grateful for the work that you're doing in investigating uh the horrific events of July 13th uh and the attempted assassination of former president Trump which everyone must and and has condemned uh I would first just ask do you believe that the FBI has the adequate resources to ultimately ensure uh that your agency gets to the bottom of it and fully investigates uh this terrible crime well we are devoting uh massive amounts of resources to this specific investigation um we have easily several hundred uh FBI agents analysts and professional staff uh working on it it is involves over half of the FBI's 56 field offices almost every headquarters division we even have uh some of our overseas offices working on you might say well why is that well because some of the companies uh that uh involve accounts or purchases or Communications or what have you that the shooter used are foreign companies so we have to get uh evidence from overseas from those companies uh I've talked about our lab a little bit earlier today we've got our office of Technology division working on the digital devices we have our behavioral analysis unit our ba working on helping us build out a profile of the shooter I could go on and on and on so it's all hands on deck on this case as I think is appropriate now when you ask about our resources uh I've been public about the fact that the fiscal year 24 budget put US $500 million Bel below where we needed to be to sustain current operations and the on fy2 the current house mark would put us significantly further back behind that and would result in significant risks across every program and our support to State and local law enforcement uh we arrested something like 50 violent criminals per day every day last year the current mark would mean more violent criminals on the street more neighborhoods at risk we have about a, 1300% increase in our investigations related to China and it's targeting of us and I can assure you China is not cutting its budget this would mean more threats from China we have something like 300 to 400 investigations just into cartel leadership uh and about hardly a week goes by when some FBI field office isn't seizing enough fenel to wipe out an entire State those that Mark that those cuts means more fental on the street more people dying uh so the people who suffer the most are State local law enforcement and the American people were sworn to protect and so look forward to working with Congress but we we really need to be uh smart about what we're doing and I think that would be a step in the wrong direction given the threat environment that we face and I couldn't agree with you more director Ray and of course we've talked about this uh during previous hearings in which you've testified and to be clear that I think the budget that House Republicans have proposed OS which is about a $325 million cut to the FBI would do precisely what you've described and have dilus impacts uh for Public Safety across our country and house Democrats are certainly working to prevent those cuts from taking place you've talked at Great length about the events of July 13 there's justifiably a lot of public interest in the investigation which we understand is ongoing wonder if you might if there's anything that you'd like to disclose or provide to the committee or to the public um that perhaps has not yet been gleaned during the course of this hearing and just give you an opportunity because there's a lot of folks related to the investigation one thing I can give an update on um which is pretty fresh here uh we had some conversations with some of the members uh about the access to the the roof and the ladder and so forth uh and our evidence response teams uh and their forensic collection uh We've now believe that the subject climbed onto the roof using some mechanical equipment on the ground and vertical piping on the side of the AGR building uh in other words we do not believe he used a ladder to get up there uh one question if the chairman might indulge me with just a few e extra seconds there's an article recently uh regarding several former Trump Administration National Security officials who had received a duty to warn briefing from the f FBI regarding the Potential Threat from Iran and I think there is this article made clear deep concern these individuals have justifiably so about the Threat Level and particularly given the events of the last several months and the need for there to be an increased security posture and security Personnel for former officials who may very well still be at risk and I don't know if you're familiar with that article I'm try not to use names here but I think uh would perhaps follow up with your agency and with the Department of Justice more broadly to ensure that any individuals who are potentially facing a threat from Iran or another hostile actor in foreign Nation have the resources they need to have uh the the security available to them so again without reference to any specific individual um I want to be very clear about this because I've I've tried to be vocal on this but it sometimes doesn't um get noticed as much which is that in my view the Iranian government has been extremely aggressive and Brazen uh we have seen in the last few years an attempt I'm speaking just from public information now an attempt to assassinate a former US National Security adviser on us soil we have seen an attempt first to kidnap and then to try to murder an American dissonant slj journalist who a Critic of the Iranian regime writes smack in the middle in New York City we have seen uh a Cyber attack against a Children's Hospital in New England that ties back to Iran we have seen uh as I've testified before as director rackliffe and I announced an effort by the Iranians to Target the 2020 presidential election uh and that's all before you even get to the fact that the Iranian government is the leading State sponsor of terrorism so if that's not enough to convince people that is a threat I don't know what is but director was there a distinction between what the gentleman from Colorado raised and what you just said this General concern in these these specific uh instance you talk about and a direct specific threat on President Trump that's distinct from what you've been describing as this General concern with Iran well again I I can't get into specific pieces of class and if so when if it was a distinct threat on President Trump when did that when did that take place yeah I I all I can tell you uh certainly in this kind of setting is um targeting of us officials for the uh solomani strike is something that is a reality that the Iranian government has at times called for very publicly uh and there whenever there is reporting let me try to answer your question this way Whenever there is reporting uh about any of those protectees uh we share the information in a variety of ways working with the intelligence Community working with whoever is the protective service with responsibility for that individual and we do it in a timely way using the the duty to Warrant process that was just referred to uh and to my knowledge everything along those lines uh that's relevant was shared in a timely way with the relevant people thank you gentleman from Wisconsin is recognized director R thanks for being here um where where were you when you heard that President Trump was shot and then what were like your immediate actions response to that as director I was uh about to have dinner with family um and I was horrified and angry I'm just thinking the the reason I asked the question is because I'm thinking I'm still trying to figure out kind of lanes be what the FBI would respond to and what the secret service has the responsibility to respond to can you just kind of cover that again sure so the FBI uh is not responsible for it's never really been part of our mandate or mission for the physical security of venues of specific protectees or anything like that that's if it's a if it's somebody within secret Services scope that's their mandate and Mission uh we are a law enforcement and intelligence agency and so if you think about it this way we're the Federal Bureau of Investigation we're not the Federal Bureau of security you might say well what's the difference well there is a difference uh we investigate crimes we investigate threats to National Security but we don't questions about security posture the adequacy of uh resources and assets that were deployed to protect a specific individual whether there's enough security and certainly the Staffing of that security is not something the FBI uh again we're 116 years old has historically done so at this point um have you been able to go through the shooter's home and and kind of document kind of what what you found as far as evidence goes so we we have been able to search the shooters home so again just sort of tying your first question to your to your second question now you know our role is to conduct an investigation of the shooter and the attack and so we're going to conduct a painstaking intense investigation of that we have among other scenes that we've processed using evidence response teams uh in addition to the rally scene itself of course we have been through the individual's the shooters home uh his bedroom other parts of the house Etc have you been able to establish that he did go to a range and either zero that weapon in or you know at least target shoot that weapon prior to the assassination attempt so uh we do uh assess that he went to a shooting range the day not the only time time he went to a shooting range he was a fairly um Avid might be a little strong but a fairly Avid uh you know shooting hobbyist uh and so he went to you know belong to different sort of clubs and and went to certain ranges and that kind of thing we do uh believe based on what we've seen so far that he went to a shooting range uh the day before and then he shot uh uh an AR sty AR style rifle at that range the day before I I'm not sure we know for sure sure that it's the weapon that he used but I think we assess that it probably is have you been able to uh interview his parents uh yes we have and was there anything that was gained from that interview that would lead you to believe that they certainly were aware of what was going on uh I would uh I guess I want to be careful I talking about specific people's interviews but I would say that his parents were Cooperative with us and as I've said before and hopefully this gets at your question we have not identified any accompli co-conspirators or anything along those lines um so it's the FBI's position right now that he still acted independently again we're still I know it seems like a lifetime since July 13th but we're still early stages but we have not seen anything so far that would suggest to us that he acted with others how does the FBI view not just a trump rally but political rallies versus other types of events uh you know from a security perspective uh compared to a college football game or any any Mass you know large crowd type Gathering because I can't I think the one of the things that's most difficult to really um to swallow at this point is that the the idea that these Trump relies have been happening for years and that there there could be such a LAX approach to the physical security of those Fairgrounds that day and I'm wondering you know where does this fall and then on top of that that there were other presidential candidates out there that didn't have full Secret Service protection RFK Jr has been the most vocal about it I was wondering if you could comment on the on the facilities as well as providing security for presidential candidates well again I want to be a little bit careful to stay in my Lane because again security posture and the adequacy of the security posture uh is is really the core expertise and responsibility of agencies like the Secret Service but uh certainly it is I think fair to say that uh outdoor events whether they're political rallies or as you say you know a college football game in an open Stadium a concert uh these are places that are uh often you know particularly challenging to secure adequately uh because the range of threats that can face them are are higher uh in addition to that as been has been discussed a little bit here already in in today's hearing just threats to public officials including politicians uh is an increasingly uh pervasive part of today's landscape and so that adds to the challenge so you're talking about the combination of um uh individuals who are increasingly targeted for violence combined with uh venues that are softer and harder to secure uh targets I guess is the way I would answer but again th those kinds of questions the adequacy of the security posture uh all the resources that were or were not devoted all that stuff is my understanding would be very much in scope for the uh DHS Inspector General uh investigation and this outside independent panel that's been y back gentle uh gentleman Yi's back uh director I think we're going to be able to get two more members uh times a question then we we have to get to the floor for the for the Prime Minister J from George is recognized thank you chair Johnson and thank you so much director director Ray for your transparency and your testimony today um first I want to say my friend and she was my friend before I even came to Congress and in my freshman year she kind of took me under her wing and she kind of showed me the ropes and she was a force to be reckoned with and I can say that she will never ever be replaced and she was a Trailblazer and I know that she will sorely be missed here in Congress uh director R I only have one question for you today but before we get to that point I just like to reiterate today that political violence is never acceptable regardless of how different our political values and Views are attempted assassinations areain to the very democratic ideals of this nation we have endured riots on Capitol Hill on January 6th where a literal noose was erected on Capitol grounds intended for then vice president Pence and speaker Emeritus Nancy Pelosi political vience violence against election workers that has been expressed today an attack on Paul Pelosi Nancy Pelosi's husband threats against the FBI agents as you have expressed and prosecutors and threats to the staff who serve the public every single day Congressman Connelly's staff was targeted and attacked last year and now we have the attempted assassination of a former president of the United States all of this within just the last three years this violence simply needs to end the assassination attempt on Donald Trump was by the grace of God God a failure the weapon the 20-year-old man was able to obtain an AR-15 generally has a shooting range up to 600 yards and shot Mr Trump from almost 150 yards away this weapon has the ability to kill multiple people in seconds and sadly Corey compur lost his life because of this man and because of this gun Mr cator's family will never be the same trust me I understand that more than anyone else in this room is the near loss of a former president enough for this Congress to finally take action because there are 206 of us that are already standing in the wings ready to take immediate action to ban assault weapons today we need only 12 more of our colleagues to join us encourage and move the legislation to save lives of so many of the people that we are elected to serve by removing assault weapons from the hands of people who simply should not have them in their possession we are crippling our democracy and we are ripping apart our fellow Americans until we do I ask today because it is clearly clearly wasn't enough to take action when The lethality of salt of assault weapons we lost 26 and seven year olds and six teachers in 2012 when I also lost my son to gun violence or 14 teenagers and three more teachers in 2018 nor was it enough when we lost 19 more children and two more teachers in 2022 well is it enough now now that a former president the very president and many of you in this room are hoping will be reelected almost lost his life because this Congress has failed to reinstate an assault weapons ban a ban that by the way Republicans joined with Democrats the past 30 years ago well fine yall don't like assault weapons ban we can bring another bill that I have introduced to a vote the go Safe Act this bill focuses on the components of the s Auto automatic Firearms regulates their infrastructure sale and transfer this again is not the time for thoughts and prayers this is a Time for Action director Ry just one question I have for you would you rather have your officers protected or protect someone against an assault weapon being shot from 147 yards away or standard pistol with no accessories attached well again I'm not I'm gonna refrain from appearing to comment on specific legislative proposals but I can tell you that we have certainly concerned uh about the uh danger to law enforcement from high any kind of high-powered weapon in the wrong hands and it hits close to home for us uh because just not that long ago two great agents Lor Schwarz berer and Dan Alin down in Miami executing a surge in crimes against children case were shot and killed by a subject with an automatic weapon so again dangerous weapons in the wrong hands uh is something that of course from a law enforcement perspective concerns us but I'm not going to wait into the legislative process well thank you for that answer I'd rather give our agents a fighting chance and I yield back gentle lady yields back gentlemen from Oregon recognize thank you Mr chair and thank you director Ray for being here today so we spend $3 billion dollar a year excuse me on the Secret Service three billion and um it would seem that we could and should have had a better job done uh a few weeks ago on the 13th than what we saw will you have anything to say about correcting what are the obvious deficiencies and what the Secret Service did well uh for the most part the the deficiencies or adequacy or inadequate quacy of secret Services performance uh decision making resources all that stuff is is in the purview of those two other investigations that is the DHS Inspector General and the outside independent panel that's been announced having said that our investigation which as I've testified now is involves several hundred FBI employees and every asset we can bring to bear of the shooter again our investigations of the shooter and his attack of course involves interviewing law enforcement including lots and lots and lots of Secret Service people so we'll share all that with those reviews so that they can answer those question the reason the reason I'm asking this is because this isn't the first time the secret service has been before Congress there was a 435 page report issued in 2015 by by Congress saying fix yourself they didn't in fact there was a followup in 09 where they had only done a few of the I think it was 18 or 19 different specific things they were supposed to do they' done some but certainly not all there was another followup in 2022 and again the Secret Service had not done what Congress had asked I guess my question to you uh Mr director is how what should Congress do we a 435 page report nine years ago and still the Secret Service isn't isn't didn't do what it was told to do then can you help director Reay because this this type of performance is is not is is not acceptable well as again I think even former director cheel has acknowledged uh this was a a significant operational failure if there are ways for the FBI to be helpful beyond what we're already doing in terms of our investigation We Stand ready to try to be helpful I I do want to say as somebody who's been in law enforcement for most of my career I've worked with some just phenomenal Secret Service agents going all the way back to my time as a line prosecutor and they they have an incredibly hard job uh and have a lot of affection and respect for the men and women of the Secret Service I'm sure you do and I'm sure you're right but the trouble is when Congress says you need to do these 19 things and they don't something needs to change now the director has resigned but you're going to be in a position because your agency is doing such a careful review to to say a lot about what should have been done I guess the real issue is much more of what the higher reps in that agency are or are not doing perhaps that's on us and we will share we will share share with those reviews anything that we come across that could be helpful or relevant to them for those those question let me let me Qui quickly go to some details on the actual events uh it appeared to a lot of us as the Secret Service was taking president former president Trump from the stage that he was clearly still in view of everybody and had there been another shooter I didn't see him being protected are you going to raise that issue I think that's really more in scope of these two other reviews uh let me okay that's fine let me go to the the shooter as he was on top of the roof apparently another officer from another police division saw him and quickly duck down because the shooter aimed a gun at him um and then the shooter apparently was he prone at the time he took the shot toward the president so uh my understanding uh is that the local officer uh who they were talking about with the assistance of another local officer officer was able to kind of get up and see onto the roof uh where he observed the shooter I believe in a prone shooting position uh the shooter then turned and faced him the local officer with the weapon from the prone position that's my understanding then he went back to the prone position and this is all seconds before the uh the shooter took his but that entire time the shooter was in the scope site of of the counter sniper correct that one I'd have to double check on I know we've interviewed the counter sniper but I I'm not sure I know the answer the counter sniper didn't take a shot until after the Assassin attempted to shoot the former president and others he got off eight shots before the the the counter sniper shot the shooter what's with that protocol can you get that fixed well again I I really want to be careful not to be uh given the scope of our investigation somehow second guessing the very difficult uh act and decision it takes for a counter sniper to kill another human being in that situation it's all happening in seconds so eight shots and and and that was after he'd been seen for 20 minutes I yield back thank you um director um that's an important question though because you've you've talked to the counter sniper um and that I mentioned this in our opening statement that critical five minutes from 609 to 614 and what takes place there is critical and I think that's what the gentleman was getting at and we were hopeful that you could tell us something about your interview with the counter sniper yeah I I I guess I want to distinguish a couple things there's um there is some individual not law enforcement I believe who spotted the shooter on the roof a few minutes before uh but I think law enforcement spotting him with the weapon on the roof is seconds before the shot that that's important so there's two different things going what you're saying is it wasn't maybe that if this if the if this the bad guy shoots at 611 then you're saying this encounter with local law enforcement that Mr B was just getting into happened just seconds before that and maybe not two minutes before that that's my understanding that in other words that there's different things here there's individual at least one individual I can think of not law enforcement member of the public who observed him on the roof not clear to whether or not the individual saw a weapon or not but saw him in a way that was concerning that is some number of not many but like just a handful of minutes I think separate from that as far as law enforcement goes in terms of a weapon uh this this local officer that we just talked about uh observed the individual again literally just seconds before the individual the shooter took his shots separate apart from all of that uh you know roughly I think maybe a little less or around an hour before the shooting there were local law enforcement officers who observed the shooter not Up on the Roof not with a weapon but with a uh I believe a rangefinder kind of like you would use if you were playing golf or something uh in a way that was odd and suspicious so that started happening with local law enforcement beforehand but in terms of shooter meaning with the weapon uh law enforcement my understanding is is that the first time that happened was this local officer Climbing Up on the Roof seconds before yeah we we we want that timeline I think the committee wants that timeline and Communications that were taking place in that in that short period of time again as I've said with everything else I really want to be careful I'm leaning in trying to share as much as I can here facts are evolving things may change but we are working on a timeline among other things committee will stand in recess until after the prime minister's remarks conclude committee will come to word to the gentle lady from North Carolina is recognized for 5 minutes uh thank you Mr chairman and thank you so much director Ray for being with us yet again as you know we've seen a disturbing rise in domestic terrorism and farri extremism across the United States and we've heard from you several times about this white supremacist and far rate extremist groups um continue to outpace all types of terrorism and de domestic violent extremism according to the National Institute of Justice report from this past January part of this dramatic rise in extremist violence and threats stems from malign foreign actors who are actively working to seow division in American democracy they're desperately trying to inflame extremists at with and deep in divides all to support far-right agendas and candidates that will erode our democracy the DHS threat assessment has warned we expect the 2024 election cycle will be a key event for possible violence and foreign influence targeting our election infrastructure processes and Personnel Microsoft has warned that the 2024 election may be the first presidential election during which multiple authoritarian actors Sim simultaneously attempt to interfere with and influence election outcomes National Security officials and experts have warned that foreign governments mainly Russia China and Iran seek to destabilize the United States via its elections by sewing further division in the American electorate this is happening and happening in the current context of increased political violence in our country against a former president election workers judges members of Congress and their families and other public servants I cannot emphasize enough that this is a national security threat director Ray reports have found that these propaganda campaigns will sometimes Target Target racial groups why would countries like Russia China Iran seek to inflame racial tensions via social media well of course it may vary from adversary to adversary but the playbook for authoritarian regimes uh in today's world is to try to sew divisiveness and Discord to turn us against each other to capitalize on existing social tensions that they perceive and to try to uh in effect pour gasoline on the fire uh and in intensify those conflicts that may already exist uh in our domestic you know political scene uh so rather than uh you know if you're a foreign adversary that means us no good uh rather than try to come up with some completely brand new issue or or Theory or narrative to turn us against each other you look for things where we're already at the very least quarreling with each other if not fighting with each other and then they try to capitalize I on that and amp it up and of course that can then sometimes as we've seen all too tragically boil over or bubble over into outright violence and so um how has the FBI worked to combat this propaganda and infiltration on our social media networks so our focus is on the foreign actor China Russia Iran uh and on their efforts and so we work with the intelligence Community we work with our foreign Partners our friendly foreign Partners to try to uncover what those countries Russia China Iran are up to uh and we try to share information about The Hidden Hand of the foreign actor uh where it's appropriate uh we also engage in efforts to disrupt those foreign actors uh the most recent example uh with the Russians for example is a uh Russian government linked generative AI social media um bot Farm where they were posing as among others us persons and not in fact us persons and trying to again sew various narratives in that case very heavily focused on uh at the issue they picked There Was You know the war in Ukraine and again trying to kind of get everybody uh turned against each other we've also seen that though from China and Iran I mentioned China before uh we've had a case where they we charged I think it was 34 Chinese Ministry of public security MPS officers for much the same kind of behavior creating false personas pretending to be Americans and then trying to kind of sew narratives in that case in the Chinese case their narratives were trying to for example undermine any suggestion that covid was the product of a lab leak or attacking us law enforcement uh at the anniversary of George Floyd's death for example and then Iran uh in 2020 we saw them undertake similar kinds of efforts um that were disrupted in the in the I think October of 2020 thank you and I yield back gent yields back gentlemen from Virginia recogniz for five minutes director R thank you for being here and thank you for the information that you've provided today I greatly appreciated this event that occurred uh the attempted assassination president Trump on on July 13th in Butler Pennsylvania was a a level five alarm alert to this country that um that our elected officials our leaders the president the um former president are not safe and we need to re-evaluate uh from the ground up exactly how we are to go about providing that protection um the information you provided uh dealing with eight cartridges from the roof uh the Drone the fact that uh two explosive devices were found in the car one at home that was a remote detonation device that he had on him uh the fact that his phone was using encrypted platforms he only had one phone correct oh sorry yeah he had one phone although we've identified other phones that he may have used that may not have been his phone so for example we think in certain instances he might have used his dad's phone again not necessarily related to the attack but we're trying to um we are trying to make sure that we process and exploit every device he could have used um and and we keep which is part of why I keep making this point uh which I know you all are probably tired of me making about this being an ongoing investigation because we keep identifying New pieces of equipment new accounts what have you and the fact that you are uh in real time informing us about what you're finding as you're performing this investigation is very helpful and clarifying the fact that he went to the range a day before and shot an AR now my understanding is is that the AR he used um on the 13th was his fathers is that correct well yes and no it was originally his father bought it legally but then our understanding so far is that his father then uh conveyed it to him sold it in fact to his son uh so originally his fathers at the time of the shooting the shooters that's okay so that's new information was that provided to you by the father uh I think it was partly from that I think we also saw some documents a to support it okay um investigators also have said that the shooter posted quote July 13th will be my Premiere watch as it unfolds on an online gaming platform sometime before he tried to assassinate president Trump can you confirm that and how much time elapsed between this posting and the attempt on July 13th so I'm I'm really glad you asked about that because uh that um is a situation where again in our effort to give realtime information since we've provided that information we have since learned that that uh July 13th Premiere um you know profile page on the gaming platform it turns out it was not the shooter okay that it was some other individual as part of some sick joke who after the shooting created a profile page pretending to be the shooter wow um and so of course we've now that person is now admitted to it and you know we're but a my point being among the other challenges es that we as investigators have you have people who uh create accounts in today's world create accounts pretending to be somebody that they're you know and it's not the actual person um now the that's that's troubling obviously it makes our jobs even harder as investiga thank you for clarifying that did he have a an online gaming account we we do believe he was a gamer and then he had different kinds of um gaming accounts so that's part of why we yeah any information gleaned from those not yet yet but again some of those are some of those uh legal process returns I'm still waiting on now during the attempted assassination krooks was wearing a t-shirt from a popular YouTube channel um have you been able to access his uh selection of YouTube videos that he's watched uh I believe we have seen some of the some of his you know search history um but I think we've got a ways to go on that uh I know there's some manual work that we're doing on that I think the most not thing uh that we found uh recently uh which I I don't think has been shared until today is that on a laptop that we've that the investigation ties to him uh that on July 6 he it revealed a Google search uh and his search if it was him again it's a laptop tied to him we obviously believe it's him but we'll we'll continue to investigate but his Google search was how far away was Oswald from Kennedy right um and horrifying yes absolutely um can you uh clarify that there that you have in your possession all the video that has that was taken on that day at the scene uh We've collected mountains of video uh part of the reason you commit to providing us with that video well we're going to work with the committee uh and share information as best we can the part of the reason I hedged on whether we have it all is as the as you can appreciate in today's world uh everybody with a phone sure has the ability to take footage and so we're we're finding things kind of left and right do you have all the law enforcement video uh I believe we have all the law enforcement video but I we're still collecting evidence um okay and I hope you would provide that to us and to the American people thank you yeld back gentan yields back director just to be clear the the photo and the message on the online gaming account um you I think your testimony was to Mr Klein that that was somebody else posing as the shooter is that right correct somebody after July 13th okay created this profile pretending to be the shooter and sent us down a rabbit Trail which we've now tied off that's important information General lady from Pennsylvan is recognized I thank you Mr chairman thank you director Ray for being here and I want to add my my voice uh to the chorus of folks who are just devastated by the illness and passing of Sheila Jackson Lee what a champion what a role model I always always called her the hardest working member of Congress she was everywhere on every issue uh she'll be greatly missed um director Ray I I thank you for what you said earlier which is leaning in this is such an extraordinary set of events the attempted assassination of Donald Trump uh the stealing of the life of a father a firefighter somebody who protected lives Corey uh comparator serious injuries to two others uh so I I thank you because you are trying to give us what you can without jeopardizing the investigation and I think that's very helpful um did the shooter also um investigate other high-profile folks we had heard some reporting around that early on well you say investigate other folks I think um this is a place where we still have a lot more work to do part of what uh part of what we did find was uh a bunch of cash images of a variety of public figures um but again cached images are those images that you get when you like you pull up a news story from any number of news sites the if they're photographs in the article those images are automatically put into your the cache on your computer so it doesn't necessarily mean that you were searching for that person's image uh we do have um the the fact that starting around uh at at the least around the period um early July so this the search that I just mentioned uh related to Oswald and Kennedy uh that's about July 6th which is the same day we believe that he uh registered for the rally uh and the day before he traveled to the grounds for the first time and so I think there is a certain amount of searches related to former president Trump that during that period uh we're seeing um consistent with some kind of planning or reconnaissance if you want to call it that in advance of the rally but that sort of confined to that or or concentrated maybe is a better word uh in that July period you know after the announcement of the rally and before the shooting can you speak to the conveyance of the gun this is a 20-year-old young man his father owned the gun originally AR-15 am I correct uh AR sty yeah um 20-year-old man when did the father sell the gun to him and what documents do you have how much money transpired what date was uh yeah I don't I don't I I do know that I say I know we believe based on what we've seen that his father uh after purchasing the gun legally sold the gun to his son I don't know that I have the date uh of that transfer or the the amount of the transfer although we may be able to get that to you as a follow I just don't have it in front of me do you know when the father bought it we know I don't as I'm sitting here testifying in front of you I don't have that in front of me so I don't have it my f I'm just wondering if it's approximate to this event uh I do not believe that the gun was purchased uh that is the gun that was used I do not believe it was purchased particularly close in time to the shooting um but how far in advance it may have been a year before give or take but again I we'll go back and and double check that on you I do know that uh on the um the day of the shooting uh at about 1:30 p.m. he bought 50 rounds of ammunition so uh if you think about the day of uh or if you back up a little bit so the day before he goes to the shooting range the day of he goes go to the grounds uh the morning of the event for I think around an hour uh he buys the ammunition at around 130 uh at around 350 is when he's back on the grounds uh of the rally and that's when he used uh the Drone that I've talked about already today and then of course um fast forward till just just after 6:00 when uh the worst happened and we had thought uh maybe over the weekend there was a conversation around a classified briefing for members I hope that will happen uh as soon as it's feasible uh for you and for the other uh agencies involved uh and he he got off eight shots and the reporting is that that was in under six seconds he got off eight shots uh fatal uh to one my question that I'll leave you with and I know I'm over time Mr chairman is we all decry political violence we decry any violence but we decry the rise in political violence what can you tell us that we could do better what can what do you need uh for you to be able to help this country reduce the political violence Tendencies I think this is a moment uh where in the most Stark way possible all of us as Americans uh can see uh how out of control political violence is in this country and it's an opportunity for everybody to come together um and to try to show that this is not the kind of thing we're going to tolerate in this country um the FBI's role is to focus on violence and threats of violence uh but there is a role for others in the Public Square to address how people communicate in this country country and every day in in our jobs we see uh in social media in terms of threats that people are we get you know thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of tips reported to us and the language that's out there uh is just mind-bogglingly hateful uh and and violent sounding uh people sometimes as figures of speech use Expressions that that are very violent expressions and so that that is a part of it we can all do better uh in kind of being a little more thoughtful and measured in our language but again the FBI we got to stay in our lane our lane is the violence and the threats of violence there's a role for everybody as Americans to try to see if we can take the temperature down agree thank you and thank you for the extra time y back gentleman from North Dakota is recognized thank you Mr chairman uh and I really app appreciate you correcting the gaming thing about this is my coming out party because we're asking you to do something and we've had acrimonious you and I have actually had acrimonious but we're not here for a got you moment we're just not not on this and we're asking you to give us information before the investigation is complete my only recommendation or suggestion would be when that happens don't necessarily wait till you ask because don't wait for us to ask because there's a and I'll go through Y in a second I appreciate you coming in I appreciate you telling us things I appreciate you guys going against essentially your normal policy of waiting till an investigation is done because the American people need to know it but here's why there a guy with a rangefinder walking around that everybody noticed and then couldn't find you know he scaled to the top of a roof within 150 yards line of sight to uh the presidential Republican former presidential candidate by climing climbing a drain pipe and then you said uh some equipment he was being pointed out by rally goers everywhere they could and nobody could figure it out there's maybe supposed to be local law enforcement in the building either upstairs or downstairs and all of this was going on and I was talking to a colleague of mine yesterday on the floor and it's like I hate the conspiracy theories that come out but this is and this is not the FBI's purview this is the secret Services PR this is so comically like inept to the average to the average Dakota citizen is just they look at this and they're like how could this possibly happen and so when we by you giving us information in a really meaningful way even though we know the investigations ongoing and things can change that at least helps us to deal with that and figure out where we're at and so I mean and you're doing all this this guy had no combat training no counter surveillance training that you're aware of right I'm sorry I couldn't quite hear that no combat trading oh uh no not I don't think any certainly know what we would call what you and I would call combat training obviously he was a fairly uh active um recreational shooter so he did plenty of sh a lot of guys uh no not I don't think any certainly know what we would call what you and I would call combat training obviously he was a a fairly uh active um recreational shooter so he did plenty of lot of a lot of guys in Western North Dakota right I mean all of those different things and somehow we came within under of an inch of a presidential candidate being shot and killed within a hundred days out from an election and when you look at it so just I I just want to be really clear because there is a lot of this there is no evidence of another shooter right another shooter yeah to to to I mean there's the counter sniper who took out the shooter but you're talking about like anybody else and you're you're looking at his online and seeing all that but there's no evidence he had any other accomplices on scene that day correct correct that not that we've seen yet certainly and you said and we oversight's had a hearing DHS had a hearing we're having a hearing now um the inspector General's going to investigate uh we're probably announcing a bipar and outside panel but there's another investigation too right because somebody has to clear the shooter like even though it is a secret service officer deploying his I mean when an FBI when when an FBI agent kills somebody and the line of duty what's the process so uh we have what we call an agent involved shooting is I think what you're getting at we whole we have a whole process our get put on Leave paid leave get a lawyer depending on how it is right it well those some of those things depend but we have our Inspection Division does uh a shoot review of each time when there's one of these situations and they sometimes have to coordinate with local prosecutors who are also doing some kind of review but um but so yes Secret Service would have a similar kind of process for the counter I mean because you have to actually establish one of I mean one of the defenses to homicide just like I mean you don't do it in a court system the same way everybody else does but you have to justify that that shooting was justified so when the FBI does that do they conduct that all internally uh most of the time yes every once in a while there's a situation where the Inspector General gets involved do you know how the Secret Service does it I I don't and I just think that's important because when we're talking about how this works and I don't think anybody is arguing it wasn't anybody who's seen it knows what happens but it's just it it knowing it and making sure that the process is handled correctly and I just want to shift gears with my last 30 seconds really quickly because we had a hearing on the northern border in Grand Forks and you were talking about specific threats from Iran but also generally uh and we've diverted an exceptional amount of resources to the southern border our our interactions 114% increase in apprehensions and the one specific thing with all due respects to my friends and and my neighbors from Canada it's a lot easier to get into Canada for some of these countries where we have these real issues with terrorist threats than it is to the United States particularly Iran and are you guys monitoring that and making sure whatever coordination you have with Canada that we're paying attention to that as well we have a an excellent relationship we the FBI with our our Canadian counterparts both uh RCMP you know the mounties as some people euphemistically call them uh and CIS they um their my uh intelligence service counterparts uh we have great relationships with them and terrorism is I find uh probably the number one thing we talk about yeah and they're understaffed and overworked on the northern border and they can use all the help you get with that I you back gentlemen y's back gentleman from Maryland recognized thank you Mr chairman uh director thank you uh for today I I think uh I greatly appreciate your cander uh I know it's highly unusual to go into this level of detail during an active investigation and I know it's a special and unique circumstance U given the nature of what happened that day I I'll ask my colleagues that uh we not try and take advantage of this in in other circumstances I think we need to be careful about um pressuring uh our investigators you know to disclose information in the middle of an investigation um in a casual or or routine way but thank you for what you've you've done here uh today I do want to mention this too like uh Congressman Kare I went up to Butler with Homeland Security uh committee and the um had a chance to meet with a number of the people there including people who were there at the rally and um you know I and several of them were elected officials in fact one of them that spoke with me a lot was sitting directly behind Mr Trump when he was shot and she had video that she'd taken and she'd love to share it with you all uh but she mentioned a couple of things too that I I hope you all um will have a chance to have conversations about and I know some of it's going to be in the Secret Service Lane some's going to be in the FBI Lane but uh one of the things she talked about was the fact that the day before the shooting um she and other uh officials in the town and people who just wanted to prepare the stage um showed up and started working on putting the Bunning up and and decorating it but the point she noted was that none of them had been vetted there was nobody there to keep an eye on them and make sure that you know everything that was being done was appropriate um and she actually sort of thought in this in the context of hearing that a gun was found uh or a gun was perhaps hidden at the site before the the shooter was U uh able to get it and use it I don't know those details but those are some of the things that that came up that day she also mentioned that uh there was sort of the outer parim you had a perimeter around the stage that the Secret Service had set up beyond that you had a field and then you had the uh the building where the uh the company was and the shooter got on the roof apparently there was a sort of a second level of a perimeter there that wasn't particularly restricted from an access standpoint as as with the street that was just beyond that so she raised and another another elected official raised uh as well issues about security that may actually kind of get in into what you're talking about whe whether the ladder was there how the guy got on the roof there are all sorts of issues with respect to that and there was a lot of people as you said that had videotape I just I talked to three that were showing me videos while I was standing out there on the in the grounds but I had a couple of questions to ask of you briefly um apparently there was no secret service recordation of communications during that day um you know there's no no no radio runs we call them but there's no t do you know if there any recorded conversations among law enforcement from that day uh I don't know the details of that I I I believe there may be some um but I don't u i don't have in front of me exactly what what we've seen uh or heard okay and then with respect to email Communications there were a lot of issues about you know because my personal you haven't gone to the site was that they shouldn't they just shouldn't have had the ra the rally there it should not have been permitted I thought there were just too many roofs you know he picked one but there was like a half dozen others that he could have picked on the other side of the field and as uh Eli crane a congressman who was a sniper for the US military said there was a water tower uh that actually would have been a better site probably the so that uh Secret Service should have used but could have been used as well but had the leadup to that decision and Congressman Korea raised this who made this decision about how to pick the site and apparently there was back and forth between local law uh enforcement Secret Service and the campaign and I was kind of curious as to whether that's something that your investigation is going into or not so I think that primarily Falls within the scope of the other the two other reviews that is the inspector the DHS Inspector General review and the outside panel independent panel that's been announced uh certainly we are interviewing uh law enforcement Personnel um but the security preparations the adequacy of the security preparations that's the other lane that's the other lane all right I only got 15 seconds left quick question for you with a probably not a quick answer but this scenario is kind of the worst case scenario from a couple of standpoints got a lone wolf shooter with no red flags that we've heard of so far um you know nobody should have known that this was coming you didn't have a criminal record and that sort of thing easy access to an assault weapon I had a discussion like this with um I think Congressman Roy and Congressman Bishop several months ago what is it we can do to try and preempt those kinds of scenarios we've got gun violence all over the country including in my district this is one example but you know this scenario is the worst possible that I can think of from the standpoint of no intervention prevention efforts that can be put in place to try and address it but I'm kind of curious if you have any thoughts to the contrary on that I don't know that I have uh any uh magic solution to to the problem and I certainly don't want to be um proposing you know legislative ideas that's not really my role um certainly uh dangerous weapons especially high-powered weapons in the hands of the wrong person uh represent a a real concern for for law enforcement um including to law enforcement uh sometimes as the victims as we we saw very tragically down near Miami with two of our agents killed um that's probably all I can say on that I do while we're on the subject of firearms Mr chairman I do get I have an answer to congresswoman Dean's question I might as well give it now ra um which is about the the purchase of the firearm uh I'm I'm told that the father purchased the firearm in 2013 so quite a while ago and then he sold it to his son in October of 2023 thank you thank you Mr chairman I yield back and thank you Mr director for your great work uh I'd ask unanimous consent that we enter into the record a statement from representative Kelly um and some questions for the bureau um representative Kelly represents Butler actually that's his hometown so without objection those will be entered into record and we'll we'll make sure you get those record gentleman from New Jersey is recognized thank you Mr chairman before I begin and this is not directly with you actually I just wanted to straighten something out I know my colleagues the gentlemen and the gentle ladies from Georgia Washington California uh Pennsylvania they all mention project 2025 well I don't know how they expect you to know about that number one uh I'm pretty damn involved I don't really know a whole lot about it but president Trump has made it clear and we're going to say it again we'll say it over and over again that there are some things he disagreed with some things he agreed with that he wasn't that familiar with it was from the Heritage Foundation and that was just raw politics to be honest with you it was just because 2025 has some things in it that they believe are really going to offend American people and it very well may and so they want to pin it on the presidential candidate he didn't author it he didn't condone it he didn't put a seal of approval on it it's getting old it really is we do this with other thing just like in this committee when anything goes wrong anything somehow Donald Trump's name has to be brought into it and it gets tiring it's politics over reality second thing about picking the site I was intimately involved in the Wildwood rally the biggest rally president Trump's ever had biggest political rally in the state of New Jersey uh I had spoken to the president about it and he wanted to do it on the beach because we had over 100,000 people and let me tell you we had everybody out there because they were concerned the Secret Service and the local police and the the County police and just about every entity could be and so they had behind it was that iconic setting they had the Ferris wheels on the pier and all the stuff they had agents up in there they had agents in the ocean in the water and boats they had people coordinating working with each other and talking with each other because they knew it was a risk so we chose a site that was difficult the president did and I thought it was a great site but nevertheless we the law enforcement responded properly something went wrong here you can't blame this on Donald Trump as well the site was chosen it's the responsibility of those who serve in law enforcement to make sure that he was safe period and I'm sure you'll find out why um on another tangent here you know I I've got to wonder how many qualified people were passed in order for director cheel to get her 30% quota that's a lousy way to run an agency especially when it's dealing with law enforcement to say we've got to have 30% of anything and I worry about these practices because it's policy over protection and director Ray um I know that some things were left to you I understand that but one of your early acts on the Biden presidency was hiring the FBI's very first Chief diversity officer and since that time and even before your time but and you're going to disagree with me but respectfully I'm going to disagree with you recruitment standards under your lead has resulted in deterioration in many areas incl including physical fitness illicit drug use Financial irregularities mental health issues full-time work experience and integrity uh and I know you dismissed them but in October 2023 they are a prestigious group of retired FBI special agents and analysts both Express concern regarding the FBI's willingness to recruit agents that quote I'm not saying this they said it not me can't even pass the new relaxed standards for Fitness or late in some cases and need lessons educational lessons don't want to work weekends or after hours their words and have serious disabilities or mental health issues which is not the place for them most of your agents are great people I love them I love them for what they do I'm not criticizing most but these new standards don't you think this is a hindrance and reduces the morale of the vast majority of good people that you have in the FBI and ask you for a quick answer because I have a few other things so I I respect our retired agents that many of them come to our graduations now um and I can tell you emphatically that they are mistake those who think that we have lowered our standards whether it's on physical fitness or anything else are mistaken and you can prove that the facts back me up on that the standards are the same today as they were a decade ago I mean they've changed in some ways appropriate in fact the physical fitness standards depends on how far back you go but the physical fitness standards that our current graduates have to have to graduate from quanico actually exceed some of the physical fitness standards that were in place if you go back far enough with some of our retirees but what I would tell you I think part of the reason there's confusion and again I I accept that these folks are raising their concerns in good faith but we have actually access to the facts and part of the reason I think there's confusion just take the physical fitness thing as an example is that before you had to pass the the physical fitness test before you showed up to quanico now you have to pass it in order to get a badge at quanico the standard hasn't changed you still have to pass the same test the same 12-point standard Etc all that stuff applies the only difference is you can pass it while you're at quanico but if you don't pass that same test that's been in place for a long time now you don't get a badge and we will dismiss people from quano and we do we don't pass I know I have to wrap this up and I appreciate that if you could get us information that substantiates what you say that should be easy enough to do to the whole committee I'd appreciate it you know feelings in this Administration are more important than functionality it's resulted in a border crisis we don't have time to talk about that you've spoken out about it I appreciate that You' spoken out about it I think it's also resulted in shortages in our nation's law enforcement and our military and I think it makes us less safe so I look forward to seeing those statistics and that proof because I have people talking to my that told me otherwise and I yield back gentleman yields back gentleman from Alabama is recognized thank you Mr chairman director Ray I appreciate you being here today and I certainly appreciate your forthcoming us and and and giving us information that I think uh that the American people want and you know to me it's you have a very difficult job right now um in the past and under col me certainly uh the Russian collusion narrative got out pretty heavily and uh that came out of the FBI with the F warrants and that sort of stuff spot on General Flynn and then the laptop issue the hunter Biden laptop issue which FBI actually had in their possession so I have 800,000 people thereabouts that I represent and our job is to restore trust and so in a lot of the hearings we've had this week they say well the FBI is investigating that the F the every answer was the FBI is investigating this and so uh in some ways it kind of landed in your lap and I appreciate you being here but uh you know it's just for me the question of how does a 20-year-old acting alone get a long gun a raninder we know he bought a ladder I guess he Recon area and realized he didn't need the ladder to get on top of the building so he left it at the house get on a roof within 150 yards of the most one of the most famous people in the the world I guess now and a former president how does that happen and how do we restore trust in the American people at the FBI and the DHS who is under mayor's director now how do we verify and get trust back to the American people that these agencies are really working to protect the president and and I'm not trying to place blame specifically but I never thought that we'd raate his house I never dreamed that they'd rate a former president's house I certainly never imagined that they would actually indict him and I felt well they'll never find him guilty and now we've had a threat on his life so how do we restore trust in the government of this country and the agencies that are here that we pay and provide $3 billion a year to the Secret Service to protect some of the leading political candidates in America that's a lot I'm sorry that's a lot of questions but I'm just I mean I'm going to give you a little room to talk right no no I I listen I obviously you included a lot as you said in your question and as you might imagine I disagree fairly strongly with a number of parts of it uh but sensitive to the time I guess what I would say this I can speak to my approach to running the FBI again the FBI was not involved in the physical security of the rally that's you know we come in as the investigators afterwards and as I've said before our investigation is an investigation of the shooter and his attack there are separate investigations the Inspector General of DHS and this outside independent panel that's been announced that would be looking at secret Services performance and those I think will be important to trust and confidence if you will in secret service but from the FBI perspective we can't promise that everybody's going to like the results of what we do right what we can promise is that we're going to do our best to do the work in the right way that's all we can do and so I keep telling our folks every day on this and on everything else our Focus has to be we got to do the work in the right way we got to make sure we do the work in the right way and then no matter who likes it because everything we do somebody doesn't like it and we it's a credibility issue at this point do do the American people trust what the FBI and the doj is going to tell them and you know that's the thing with this over when I was early on and I I've only been here about three and a half four years now but the American people was the fear of the weaponization of government so now we have this issue Tucker Carlson asked the president he said you are you afraid they'll kill you I remember that interview and I thought wow I can't believe he went there but here we are and so as we work through this process I think it's so important and I think the chairman hit on this is the audio of of the shooter this you you've interviewed the sniper Secret Service sniper that took out the target was he waiting on a green light what was going on and why did the why did the Mr Crooks have a chance to get off eight rounds and we knew he was on the rooftop I don't know for how long but we know he was a marked Target so was he trying to get the green light and was somebody not giving it to him so again the the performance uh the adequacy of the performance of secret service will be the subject of the Inspector General investigation and this outside independent panel what I can tell you um and I'm glad you asked the question because this goes to something that we uh that was part of an earlier exchange um the the first time that anybody from law enforcement uh saw the subject uh on the roof was a few minutes before the shooting not with a gun they didn't at that point they didn't but they local law enforcement a few minutes before saw him on the roof and started radi did he have a backpack going up the roof did they well nobody has we haven't found anybody yet who's who saw him okay climbing up the roof the reason we uh the reason I've talked about how we think he got on the roof is that's based on Forensic uh our evidence response to forensic analysis uh that were you know without getting into all the details Footprints and things like that that we can uh you know fingerprints Etc that we can see how we got on but we don't have an eyewitness at the moment who saw him climbing up so a few minutes before the shooting uh local law enforcement uh saw him on the roof again not no weapon identified at that point a few seconds before the shooting is when the law enforcement officer that I've talked about already uh saw is one was assisted by another officer who saw Up on the Roof saw the shooter in a prone uh shooting position with the gun turns how long did that happen before that was that that sighting that is the first time to my knowledge the first time anybody from law enforcement saw him with a weapon that is seconds before he shot at president Trump thank you Mr chairman I yeld back so did the counter sniper not see the bad guy the shooter until after he fired a shot you mean until after the the subject fired a shot until after yeah I don't uh I don't know the answer to that it's possible we've already determined that but I I just as I sit here right now I don't have that but I can yeah I think that's the logical next question with with where the gentleman from Alabama's was question was gone the gentleman from California is recognized for five minutes director R to the best of your understanding how close did the Assassin's bullet come to killing president Trump my understanding is that either it or some shrapnel uh is what you know grazed his uh his ear so I don't know that I have the the act very close though what's said very very close you would agree yes is this the biggest security failure that you've seen in your career well uh certainly I think director former director cheel has already uh I think acknowledged that this was uh a significant at the very least a significant operational failure I forgot her exact words but I I will defer uh on that I think we really haven't seen anything like this in at least decades in this country right the the attempted assassination of a president current or former uh is a historic event was this a sophisticated plot that uh Thomas uh krooks carried out well uh I think probably depends on your definition of sophisticated right so uh on the one hand he's a a 20-year-old um seems from what we've seen so far loner uh you know without a you know a lot of um elaborate criminal his without any criminal history or anything like that on the other hand um he did clearly do some level of planning and Recon when did the planning start to the best of your knowledge when did the planning start well we're still drilling into that but we know we assess that uh that on July 6th so a week in advance for example uh it seems to be that he seems to become focused on it because that's when as I've testified here today that's when it the laptop that we've tied to him has the Google search how far away was Oswald from Kennedy I mean that seems like an IND indication of a total amateur right someone who's searching for that and he's doing it a week in advance again I don't want to characterize him I frankly don't want to give him the credit of characterizing him as amateur or professional but what I will say is that there are some things he did that involve a certain amount of planning and preparation on the other hand if you're telling me uh do I think this is the most sophisticated ever of course not we deal with much more sophisticated adversaries all the time you probably prepare for more sophisticated plans to Target high level officials you probably prepare for more sophisticated plans to Target high level officials correct we well we we don't do physical security but yes obviously we're investigating much more sophisticated attacks all the time how about the encrypted uh applications on his phone did were those there for a while or did he download them uh you know in the days or weeks leading up to the assassination attempt uh I don't have the answer to that sitting here right now um I think it may vary from platform to platform because he had a number of encrypted messaging uh apps uh on it and again as I've I've said we're we're trying to get access to that content and that's important I think it's important for everybody on this committee to understand that this is a real problem for law enforcement that these companies let's be clear here these companies are designing their platforms in a way to no matter how heinous the crime no matter how Rock Solid the legal process run out of access get the next question um at this moment uh are you confident that uh high level protectees presidents former presidents are well protected it's not really for me to say I have a lot of respect for the men women of the Secret Service who provide protection just as I do for their counterparts at other agencies you can't say one way or the other your assessment is direct to the FBI whether the president is safe I'm not an expert on protective details in physical security what I would tell you is that uh we have a very robust system for sharing thread information with those agencies and that in my experience the men and women of the Secret Service are professionals who are hardworking who are literally willing to take a bullet for their protecte you mentioned uh a thed assassination attempt against former President Bush are there any other uh thwarted assassination attempts against current or former presidents that you could discuss not that immediately come to mind but you know I'd have to go back and think about that I mean you know obviously we've been around for a while and current and former presidents are um high-profile targets who are attractive to all kinds of bad guys there's also been reports that uh the uh uh Shooter's parents called a local law enforcement to say he was missing on the day of the shooting is that correct and uh if so is that something that you would seem as a sort of a natural thing for them to do it seems like a 20-year-old who's been missing for a few hours maybe his parents don't first thing they do call the police what's what was going on with that with that situation uh so my recollection I don't have this in front of me my recollection is they did call uh concerning that he was missing uh my recollection though is that they didn't call until this was after the I think this was after the event see um but I I'm not certain of that so uh I want to you know hedge on that slightly because I have to get back to you to confirm that I believe that part of the issue was that um when he last saw his father he I think indicated to his father that he was going to shoot at the range and then of course he didn't go to the range and he didn't come back from that and so I think that may have added to the level of concern thank you I back gentleman yields back gentle lady from wyomings recognize thank you Mr chairman director re I'm going to go a little bit different route with my questioning in testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee in December of last year you stated that the FBI is quote especially concerned about the possibility of Hamas supporters engaging and violence on the group's behalf end quote and that the threat from a quote terrorist organization who may exploit the attacks at Israel as a tool to mobilize their followers around the world end quote we've seen uh a lot of conduct today that I think is concerning to many people in terms of Hamas terrorists and their sympathizers reports have surfaced alleging that many of the groups intimidating and violating the civil rights of Jewish American students like the students for justice for Palestine received guidance and financial support from American Muslims for Palestine and that amp's directors allegedly have links groups which fundrais for Hamas director Rey is the Bureau aware of or investigating whether these groups violating the civil liberties of Jewish Americans are connected to or affiliated with Hamas or other terrorist organizations so we are investigating uh an a lot of uh attacks and threats against the Jewish Community uh have been very vocal on how big a concern that is and certainly that was already heightened even before October 7th and since October 7th went to a whole another level we are actively engaged with uh Jewish Community both locally and nationally uh when it comes to foreign terrorist organizations and their role uh or foreign adversaries and their role we are looking hard to see if we can find linkage uh you know for example uh you know funding or things like that uh nothing that I can report at this time but it's something but you're investigating it is the kind of thing that we're looking for absolutely because we know that there's an interest in their part uh to uh ferment we're watching it in real time today yes um there are other reports that mayor bitart National Security Council coordinator for intelligence and defense policy and Deputy assistant to the president was an active member in students for justice in Palestine at Georgetown University which is one of the groups alleged to have ties to Hamas is the Bureau investigating whether the Biden Harris Administration is compromised by Pro Hamas groups and organizations well again we're we're have quite a number of Hamas related investigations asking specifically about about about whether you are investigating whether the B whether the Biden Harris Administration has been compromised by pramas groups there's nothing along those lines that that I uh U can think of to report um I also want to talk to you a bit about the FBI's investigation and involvement with the Russia collusion hoax and the the FBI was involved with that because of its potential relationship to election interference is that correct the FBI's involvement in investigating the Russia collusion hoax that was because there was concern about election interference is that correct well the FBI was involved uh and staffed as investigators the uh special councel Muller investigation uh into efforts by the Russian government uh to influence and interfere with the election correct yes all right so uh is the FBI investigating what just happened with Joe Biden being forced out of the race after winning the democ primary as election interference is the FBI investigating that right now I'm not aware of any investigation uh along those lines okay um director Ray it was reported in March that the FBI's foreign influence task force resumed communication with social media companies and an FBI spokesman has stated that quote in coordination with the Department of Justice the FBI recently implemented procedures to facilitate Shar in information about foreign malign influence with social media companies in a way that reinforces that private companies are free to decide on their own whether and how to take action on the information end quote uh director Ry What specifically is the FB FBI doing to reinforce that such decisions are in fact for the private companies to make and not the administration so uh I think the best way to summarize it is that the guid uh makes uh all kinds of additional steps to underscore that the FBI has no interest in participating in any way whatsoever in the company's decision making that companies are completely free to take any actions on their own that we are simply passing information onto them uh for them to do whatever it is they want to do independently uh consistent with I should say uh I very much appreciate the Supreme Court's finding that no evidence that the FBI coerced platforms to take content down well I don't believe that that's what the Supreme Court found what the Supreme Court found was that the parties involved didn't have standing but I think there's a whole body of evidence and legal analysis demonstrating that in fact this Administration was violating the First Amendment rights of of folks through social media companies I'm just going to ask one very one final very quick question if the FBI was involved in the removal or restriction of speech of Americans do you agree that this would be a violation of the First Amendment well again I'm not going to engage in hypotheticals my understanding and my strong view from everything I've seen is that we did not violate the First Amendment lady y's back gentleman from Texas is recognized thank you director i' I've just got two easy questions for you in February Donald Trump Jr received a letter containing a white suspicious powder that read quot Lee Harvey Oswald's grandson must complete his contract in quote the United States Secret Service and the FBI said they would investigate the matter and five months later no more information has been released I've also visited with Mr Trump and he has not received any information either why is that so as I sit here right now I'm not familiar with the specific investigation but I do know that we uh have had unfortunately quite a few investigations of um threatening mailings and white powder letters and things like that so I'm happy to drill into it and have us Circle back to you and see if there more information we can share about it thank you and would you maybe Circle back to the Mr Trump Donald Jr I think they'd like an update as well uh sure let me again I don't like I said I'm not familiar with the specifics but I'm happy to have us look into it and get back to whoever we need to get back to thank you uh next question the Pittsburgh field office now handling the assassination attempt investigation is that right uh well there several there Pittsburgh field office is the lead office we obviously have lots of I think it's about half maybe over over half of the FBI's field offices are working on this including almost every headquarters division uh so we have lots and lots and lots of several hundreds of of employees working on it Pittsburgh's the lead okay this is the same office that botched the hunter Biden laptop case and they in my view and my constituents and many Americans displayed a clear reluctance qu that's a quote reluctance to really do any tasking quote effectively failing to investigate according to the US attorney on the case my question is how can we trust this office and why does it keep reappearing in critical election related investigations or is that just dumb luck so I want to be a little bit careful on what I can say here because some of what you're talking about relates to an ongoing investigation being led to by the special counsel uh Mr Weiss but what I can tell you is that the Pittsburgh field office's involvement in the matter you're talking about was uh the choice to by the attorney general attorney general bar to have the US attorney and the FBI Phil office in Pittsburgh handle that particular matter as to your summary or characterization of what uh us attorney now former US attorney Brady actually said I'd have to see the whole context I'm not quite sure that's what he said but I I think as to your overall question about confidence what I would tell you is we have that's the point I'm trying to make about the sheer breadth of our investigation yes the Pittsburgh field office is the office on the ground that's where the the attempted assassination happened but we are using the full might of the FBI criminal and National Security that's why I'm pointing out that multiple field offices over half of our field offices almost every headquarters division several hundreds of employees these are people uh who are working around the clock to deal with this historic attack uh and I have the utmost confidence in those hundreds of employees agents analysts and professionals staff and the American people should too I yield to Mr Jordan I appreciate the gentleman yielding uh uh director I guess I'm not clear exactly where all you said there were eight shell casings on the roof so eight bullets were fired we obviously know that Mr comor lost his life two other two other rally goers were injured seriously injured and then the one that hit president Trump um does that account for was were some of these individuals hit multiple times where did eight bullets go is I guess my question uh I don't have that in front of me I'm happy to Circle back and get that to you uh assuming we have that information yet um uh as I said I think with uh with respect to former president Trump um there's there's some question about whether or not uh it's a bullet or shrapnel that you know that hit his ear so it's it's conceivable although as I sit here right now I don't know whether that bullet in addition to you know causing the grazing could have also landed somewhere else um but I believe we've accounted for all of the shots and the cartridges so let us get that it's my understanding that the very first one was the one that hit the president is that very first shot or is that not accurate I I don't as I sit to you right now I don't know the answer to that I believe we know the answer to that I just don't have it in front of me okay okay um is there any chance this this I mean it seems to me that this bad guy this shooter was was focused on President Trump but but you indicated that he purchased 50 rounds of of ammunition I believe earlier that day do you have any indication thus far in your investigation that in addition to going after and trying to assassinate the former president he was also looking to do a lot more damage to other individuals that's a hard question to answer what I would say is I I agree with you that um his Preparatory activity uh is what we've seen so far the limited information that that has been relevant and interesting about his Preparatory activity does seem to be that he had settled on former president Trump as a Target and this rally as his moment to try to take a shot um but uh in addition to the 50 rounds of course you have the issue of these explosive devices right um and so what else he may have had in mind is is something that I think is very much of an open question um on the one hand you have these explosive devices including the one still back in his home uh that wasn't in quite the same stage as the one in the vehicle vehicles uh ones in the vehicle but uh he clearly had those explosive devices for some reason um and so we're trying to figure that out as I've said before you know sometimes in these kind of situations you find like a Manifesto or something like that it's frustrating to us and I'm sure frustrating to you and the American people that we haven't found anything quite like that it be love to have a road map that tells us exactly what he was thinking we haven't found that yet doesn't mean we won't we're looking all over the place and we're going to leave no stone unturned thank you gentleman from Texas is recognized thank you Mr chair thank you director for being here today I know it's been a very long day busy day on Capitol Hill and also I want to apologize in advance if there's any uh repetitive questions uh from me uh but I have to ask uh giving that our sitting president resigned from The Campaign on Sunday and the Secret Service director resigned yesterday today you don't plan on resigning anytime soon do you sir no sir good to go uh earlier today uh you told this committee that you recovered eight bullet cartridges from the roof next to the shooter and given that testimony I have two questions for you uh how many shots were fired at president Trump and how many shots were fired in total of the entire day I know I keep hearing eight but were there any more that that were unaccounted for uh the best information I have right now is eight shots uh as to the sequence M uh I'm not sure I have that sitting here right now as I said to the chairman I'm going to go back to my team and see if if we've got that nailed down yet and if we have I'm happy to share it with with you and the rest of the committee please do sir thank you very much for that uh you also mentioned that that the shooter used encrypted messages to uh to to communicate specifically do you know what apps or what what apps he was using to communicate and can you confirm if he was communicating with any foreign Nationals through the encrypted messages so as to the names of the apps I don't have that uh right here in front of me um as far as um communicating with any foreign actors um I'll say two things one we haven't as I I think I've testified before we have not uh at the moment at least identified any accomplice or co-conspirators foreign or domestic so that uh as to foreign contacts of course that's part of why we want to get access correct to the uh encrypted messages because um that might tell us whether you've been in contact with somebody thank you um let's talk about motive I know the FBI has taken the taken a lead role in investigating the assassination on on President Trump uh your team has uh searched the shooter's phone conducted countless interviews then extensive research into his motives as of today July 24th 2024 do you and your team know the motive of the shooter or have any idea on what could have driven it well no and have any idea or two two very different things um we do not know the motive um that is obviously one of the central questions in our investigation uh and it's been very frustrating to us that a lot of the usual kind of lwh hanging fruit places that we would find that have not yielded uh significant Clues uh about his motive having said that uh we have seen indications that he was interested in public figures uh and that in the period um around July 6th leading up up to July 13th uh he does seem to have become very focused on this particular rally and former president Trump but exactly what his thought process was in doing that that's something that's still very much under investigation I want to make something clear to the American people try to help out what motive could be uh and again it's not my job to steer it but here are some of my thoughts uh I'm not sure about motive either specifically but I can tell you that after this assassination of 10 people on both sides have said that both parties need to tone down the rhetoric uh but recently just on Monday in fact President Biden called into the Harris campaign event and said that President Trump was a threat to democracy just take a look behind me at this at these photos this is a magazine cover of the new Republic from June 2024 published just one month before the assassination attempt on President Trump in a tweet explaining the cover the new Republic that the new Republic said this today we at the new Republic think we can spend this this election year in one of two ways we can spend it debating either Trump meets the nine or 17 points that Define fascism or we could spend it saying he's damn close enough and we'd better fight we unreserved choose the latter course now sir I I know you said that the FBI doesn't have a clear motive yet and you've you've explained that but in your professional experience as an investigator do you think that language like this could radicalize someone to engage in political violence I certainly understand the point of the question what I would tell you is that uh respectfully uh I don't think it's appropriate for me as FBI director to be characterizing or engaging in public commentary on specific people's rhetoric and that's because uh it's not that I don't understand why you're raising the question but I'm saying that in my role I have to be very careful to make sure we speak through our work and we speak through our cases and our intelligence products not the FBI director uh chiming in in the Public Square on different people's uh public you know political commentary understand for the record uh there was an assassination attempt on an American president and I will be asking these same questions even if it were President Biden and my message to the American people is that we need to do better I give back the rest of my time and thank you for being here sir I know it's been a very long day gentleman yields back gentleman from South Carolina is recognized thank you chairman and thank you director for being here actually it's refreshing I was in the oversight hearing earlier this week and um although we don't have an idea on everything um the your ability to come in here and actually give way more than director cheel ever did uh is somewhat refreshing uh you saw some pretty bipartisan frustrations exhibited in that particular hearing I'm sure you've seen part of it um I want to follow up on a couple lines of questions that I had with director cheel um that she actually answered which was remarkable um one um she had indicated that secret service at the Trump rall had not did not have any uh radio recordings is that in your invest investigation is that accurate uh I'm not sure I know the answer to that uh I believe we have there may be some recordings uh on the local law enforcement side uh as to whether or not we have recordings on the Secret Service side I'd have to drill back into that and and the reason I'm you might say well how the heck can you not know well we certainly have interviewed lots of Secret Service employees so what we know from the interviews versus some other source as I sit here right now I don't I don't know so on this on this particular case but in your experience and again it's a different agency but uh she had indicated director cheel had indicated that recordings sometimes are done uh from Radio recordings I guess of what happens at a trump Rally or any other thing that they're engaged in uh is that your experience as well that sometimes there are uh audio recordings of communications between law enforcement officials just speaking very broadly uh there certainly there are times when there are recordings but it'd be hard for me to be more precise than that and I know that you can't answer whether they were here in this instance or not but what would cause recordings to not exist for um for the Trump rally if as a hypothetical what would what would be the reason that that would happen I'm afraid I I don't I don't know the answer to that I mean if they if they didn't record there may be situations where they just don't record in the first place and why that would be though I I'm not sure I can answer that thank you let me ask you this and this is another line of questioning director cheel had indicated that seconds before um this the Assassin the would be assassin fired the shot is roughly seconds is when um he became a person of Suspicion uh to an actual threat would you agree with that assessment from director cheel well let me let me try it this way I think there are um there are sort of three in my mind there's sort of three let's say three significant moments um on this Continuum that you're going of getting at there is uh roughly an hour before the shooting when local law enforcement observes uh the individual uh this the shooter at that point uh as somebody that was a person of concern I forgot the exact phrasing and that was based on seeing him with this range finder uh no no observation of a weapon but there was something odd and off about them they local law enforcement's attention so that's the first moment then there's a second moment which is um uh you know I think just minutes before the shooting where local law enforcement um observed him on the roof but didn't see a weapon is my understanding at that point uh and at that point uh their level of concern obviously was even higher and then there's the third moment uh uh which is that moment when local law enforcement saw him uh you know the officer who climbed up with the assistance of his colleague and saw the shooter in the prone position uh with the weapon and that's seconds before the uh event and so you know terminology I know I'm not sure but it seems to me there's an evolution of concern over that time period correct and an escalating uh concern what what uh at what point in this again I just don't know so I'm curious at what point is uh say the sniper who um who killed Mr Crooks at what point is he able to fire a shot and does he have to have authorization in which to do that uh I don't know that I know secret Services Rules of Engagement uh in that situation um it's possible that our interview uh of the counter sniper has uh uncovered that again our Focus has been I certainly understand why you're asking the question but our Focus has been on the shooter himself and his actions uh and the attack uh these two other reviews the DHS Inspector General and the outside independent panel are both looking at the performance of The Secret Service which would uh I'm confident include the question that you're talking about thank you there and I actually think you know from from a legislative purpose and what this body will probably ultimately do uh it's it's of uh great importance that we uh break down barriers of communication and that we allow um you know officers to do their job without uh so that this doesn't happen again and I appreciate you being here thank you direct chman Yi's back gentleman from Ohio is recognized well once again as Congressman fry said uh we want to thank you for your time and a lot more uh information today than Monday so thank you for that I just have a handful of questions I would love to have just a simple yes or no so we could get done with this so on day one President Biden issued an executive order mandating Dei programs in the executive branch you responded by hiring FBI's first ever Chief diversity officer you're even on the bureau's website quoting saying that diversity and inclusion of the workforce is something I care deeply about because the success of our efforts impacts our operations our culture and our future end of quote so director just a simple yes or no do you still find Dei hiring practices to be Central to the FBI's operations cultures in future I believe that diversity is an important part uh is a core value of of a high performing organization do you have any concerns that our homeland security efforts will be hampered if the FBI if the FBI continues to use Dei as a primary hiring measure I don't believe that we use Dei as a primary hiring metric I would say that we have not lowered our standards and I feel let me if I could finish it's not a yes or no question uh we have not lowered our standards and the facts back that up are you aware of a 112-page report compiled by senior agents and analysts which stated quote if the current trajectory of the FBI special agent Recruitment and selection continues using Dei as the primary and sole measure of her homel and security efforts will be significantly hampered do you know about that 112 page report I I'm a aware of a report uh from a number of anonymous former employees thank you do you agree that protecting former president falls under the umbrella of Homeland Security well protecting the former president the uh physical security the protective detail on the former president is the province of the Secret Service which is part of the Department of Homeland Security is my understanding that historically the FBI had 100,000 applications for special agents on file at any given time of the year so talking about slipping recruitment are you aware that on February of 2024 a letter from the FBI's assistant director for Training Division which reported that FBI only received an estimated 48,000 applications over a two-year period I don't know if we're comparing Apple to Apple what I can tell you is that in the time that I've been FBI director the number of Americans applying to be special agent has gone up dramatically uh to the tune of in some cases double or triple the pace if I could finish sir if I could finish please to a rate that is higher you'd have to go back about a decade or so to find the number of Americans applying to be special agents that are currently applying okay so for the record that 48,000 is probably wrong then in your eyes I I don't know I haven't I don't have the letter in front of me but what I'm not sure of is that that we're comparing Apple to Apple in terms of time periods and everything else in advance of the Trump shooting United States Secret Service special agent in charge timberg reportedly told law enforcement partners that NATO Summit in Washington DC limited his resources available to the Trump rally the service has similar de Dei hiring aims and failed their zero fail mission to protect president Trump director cheel has since stepped down could the hyperfixation on hitting Biden administration's imposed Dei Rules by causing the FBI and the federal law enforcement agencies to not only miss their Prime C candidates but also potential threats well I can't speak to secret services hiring practice what I can tell you is that in my view diversity like everything else is something that has to be done in the right way just like everything else there a right way and a wrong way to achieve it I think we can and have achieved improvements in diversity and at the same time not lowered our standards and I think part of the reason we've been able to do that is because of the encouraging increase increase in the number of Americans applying to be special the investigation to the planning of pipe bombs at the RNC and DNC headquarters has been going on for over 3 and a half years and will soon have lasted longer than the Biden presidency I look forward to you proving yourselves because we haven't received any update right now on the Trump shooting since July 15th and the people really need that can the public expect a more transparent And Timely investigation into the attempted assassination of former president Trump I I've been testifying here all day about the investigation into former attempted assassination of former president Trump and we've done multiple briefings and I've answered multiple questions we appreciate that because like I said what you were asking well it just seems like there hasn't been a press conference to the people to go through all the different details that were already presented today and I'll just leave you with one final question um the government is not doing their job do you feel as the Director that perhaps like not only the FBI but the Secret Service needs to have a complete reconstru ruction do you think it's still put together the way that could us do its job the FBI that I see every single day having visited all 56 of our field offices at least twice many of them three times the FBI that I see engaging with state and local law enforcement from all 50 states that I hear about from prosecutors judges Business Leaders Community leaders foreign Partners is an FBI that is respected trusted Ed appreciated and that is there for people when they need them the most and that is the FBI that I see and I'm very proud to be a part of them any comment on um the other agencies uh no I'm not going to comment on other agencies appreciate your time sir you back to the chair gentlemen y's back uh director I have just a couple quick questions but I want to give uh to the ranking member a chance to say some remarks or questions and then we'll then we'll be done thank you Mr chair first I'd like to say is somebody when I grew up I watched The Untouchables and I think Elliot NES would be proud of you I don't know about Jager Hoover but Elliot NES for sure uh let me ask you this in Memphis you you you've put Memphis and Nashville's FBI together kind of Consolidated and in one office and we have I know you've worked with our us attorney and others to work on the our crime situation there and it's gotten better uh but is this change in the FBI relationship there we're not going to have an office necess tell me tell me how that's going to affect Memphis so uh I want to be very clear we're not leaving we're not leaving Memphis uh we what we are doing is nobody should leave Memphis in fact most of the songs are about people going to Memphis we are they leave Nashville they go to Memphis recognizing population growth and the threat environment we have instead uh taken if you look across the state instead of having two fied offices in Knoxville and Memphis we're creating a Tennessee division headquartered in the middle in in Nashville but we are keeping we are keeping the offices in Knoxville and Memphis uh and in fact when it comes to Memphis specifically not only will it not result in any decrease in the number of Agents there to work actually strange as it might sound it's going to allow us to increase the number of agents who will be assigned to the Memphis office uh including to tackle things like violent crime which I know is of huge concern uh and the reason for that is really the effect of this reorganization is to be able to reduce administrative roles that will be more Consolidated in the middle in Nashville but it allow us to increase the operational roles the agent roles uh the number of them in Memphis so I think not only are we not leaving Memphis we're actually increasing our investigative presence in Memphis as part of this and we're going to be able to continue to collaborate closely with our great Partners there um without skipping a beat thank you that's reassuring one of the questions was asked over here was about uh previous assassination attempts on presidents and obviously I I know you're a lot younger than me but you probably did did you ever watch The Untouchables I I have watched they had a one of the programs was on mayor surmac you don't know mayor surmac I'm sorry I couldn't hear you mayor surmac do you know who he was I did not he was the mayor of Chicago and in February of 1933 there was an assassination attempt on Franklin Roosevelt in Miami Florida and mayor SAR s SX cmak was killed uh and said I'm glad it was me and not you allegedly he said that but anyway that was an attempt and it failed and that was Untouchables brought it into my Consciousness but thank you for your work I appreciate it very much and uh and I appreciate you're not looking into changing our Democratic nominee that's something we normally do thank you director um I'm I'm still not clearing my mind when did the counter snipers um the good guys when did they first get eyes on the bad guy the the would be assassin um on the on the on the roof of the AGR building uh I'm not certain but I'll I'll take my best effort here I I guess I'm if I I'm sorry interrupt but it yeah did they have eyes on him before the local law enforcement was looking up on the roof and engaged with the the bad guy shooter I don't know the answer to that I will look into that and get back to you I believe we have the answer I just don't know that I have it I want to make sure I answer accurate because we thought from the briefings that uh Mr uh abot Abbot gave us or bate gave excuse me aate gave us um and the briefings you gave the Congress that they did but I I I it wasn't clear from your Testament so if you can get that answer to us that that would be helpful I want to Circle back just a third time if I could to the Iranian uh uh threat to president Trump and and some others uh former members of our government um the reason I want to go back to that because we now know that the Secret Service and and Homeland Security denied resources to president Trump's detail that they had asked for and it seems to me if that all happened after you guys knew about the Iran threat and had briefed the Secret Service on that real threat that's an even bigger problem and that's why I was trying to get that time line down when you knew about it and when you brief the Secret Service on the Iranians threat to kill President Trump so again I really want to be careful to uh both be accurate but also not to kind of stray into any kind of classified information or confirm the existence of classified information um so let me see if there's a way for us to get back to you on that question I understand why you're asking it may be easier to answer than I think but at the moment in an open hearing I'm not sure if I can see the right way to do that fair enough we we'll we'll expect answers to both of those questions and get get back to this that'd be great finally anything else you want to tell us that that we didn't ask you you came today and you told us some things that weren't even prompted by questions and I just want to make sure if there's anything else you want to tell us um regarding July 13th and what you've discovered you know Now's the Time well again we're going to continue to engage with the Congress um I think we've covered a lot of the the points that I really wanted to make sure um that uh I got across and just as I'm looking at my list uh in one way or another through the course of today's questioning I think we've gotten through most of it that concludes today's hearing we thank our witness for appearing before the committee today without objection all members will have five legislative days to submit additional written questions for the witness or additional materials for the record without objection the hearing is adjourned will come excuse me the committee will come to order without objection the chair is authorized to declare recess at any time we welcome everyone today's hearing on oversight of the Federal Bureau of Investigation U cha recognizes the gentleman from Wisconsin to lead us all in the Pledge of Allegiance Al to the flag the United States of America the for it stands one nation under God indivisible liy and justice I want to begin today's hearing by um recognizing uh fact that we no longer have one of our great members with us uh Sheila Jackson Lee as we all know um passed away she was a dedicated public servant her service on this committee excuse me spanned nearly three decades and included sheering through countless pieces of legislation I said yes yesterday at subcommittee hearing that I don't know that there was any member of Congress who got more out of five minutes than Sheila Jackson Lee did and um she was just a pleasant Spirit who we all enjoyed and um we're thinking about her family we all we all certainly will uh will miss Sheila I'd yeld the ranking member for comments thank you Mr chairman Mr chairman this room in our hearts feel a little emptier today as we mourn the loss of our dear friend and colleague Sheila Jackson Lee in the nearly 30 years that I served with Sheila on the Judiciary Committee I witnessed her Boundless Energy her courage and her character as she lent her voice and her legislative talents to nearly every issue that came before this committee whether it was advocating for just and Humane immigration reform working to protect voting rights and preserve our civil liberties or delving into the technical details of administrative law and property intellectual property Sheila was always at the Forefront of our work Sheila made perhaps her greatest Mark serving as the chair and later ranking member of the crime subcommittee in this role she worked in a bipartisan fashion to reauthorize the violence against women act and to protect victims of trafficking among many other successes she was also leader in such issues as sentencing reform gun safety police accountability and racial Justice sheill engaged in many spirited debates but she always had the deepest respect for all of her colleagues even those of whom she vehemently disagreed she deeply loved the institution of Congress and particularly the Judiciary Committee because it gave her platform to make a meaningful impact on the lives of millions of Americans if Sheila took up a cause she could be relentless in her determination to see it through whether that meant making one extra phone call going to one more meeting offering one more Amendment or making one more speech she would not rest until she thought she had done everything she could to fight for the issues she cared about through it all she stayed true to her values and always had the people of Houston close to her heart we all better for having known her the American people are better for having had her in their corner all these years I will deeply miss my friend and colleague May her memory be a blessing are y back I want to thank the ranking member uh well said now chair recognized himself for an opening statement July 13th was a terrible day for America we all agree spirited debate fighting for what you believe in are part of what makes this country the greatest nation in the world but the First Amendment and robust political debate are not consistent in any way with violence what happened in Butler Pennsylvania was a tragedy that took the life of a good man Cory comor leaving a wife without a husband and two daughters without a father others were injured and of course former president Trump by the grace of God survived the assassination attempt there are a lot of unanswered questions about the security failures that day questions about decisions made before the rally questions about actions during the rally and questions about statements made after the event concluded prior to the rally why was the president security detail denied requests for extra resources why weren't all the buildings secured there were a finite number of buildings that needed to be secured why wasn't that done why was the president allowed to walk out on the stage when there was a susp ious person on the property during the rally what exactly happened between 609 and 64 those critical 5 minutes we know from briefings from the director and the deputy director of the FBI and other information we've gathered that at 609 the shooter was identified on the roof at 610 the counter sniper was notified counter sniper teams were notified about the shooter 611 the shooter fired several shots injuring and killing one person injuring others at 612 the counter sniper took down the shooter and at 614 president Trump was escorted off the stage by Secret Service agents we need to know what happened play byplay Moment by moment second by second the communications that took place again during that critical five minutes and then finally after the rally why did both the Secret Service and Secretary of Homeland Security my orcus lie to the American people July 14th the day after the attack Secret Service spokesman Anthony gami said this quote the assertion that a member of the former president's security team requested additional security resources that the US Secret Service or the Department of Homeland Security rebuffed is absolutely false the next day secretary maoris said that is an unequivocally false assertion we had not received any requests for additional security measures that were rebuffed but 5 days later top officials repeatedly rejected requests from Donald Trump's security detail for more personnel and on the 21st of July the New York Times confirming what the Washington Post reported said quote Mr gami acknowledged that the Secret Service had turned down request for additional Federal Security assets for Mr Trump's detail 180 degree change why did they initially lie to us in the days after the attack in Pennsylvania finally we hope to learn more today from director Ray about the shooter his use of the Drone the explosives that were in his car how he got on the roof and a host of other questions it is our hope that director Ray's testimony can begin to give answers to the American people about all of these questions and concerns so director we appreciate you being here and we trust that you're going to be as transparent with the committee and the country as you possibly can and I'm sure you understand that a significant portion of the country has a healthy skepticism regarding the FBI's ability to conduct a fair honest open and transparent investigation and that skepticism is based on what they've witnessed over the past several years the American people have seen a Biden Harris justice department they can't tell us who planted the pipe bombs on January 6 they can't tell us who leaked the do's opinion and they can't tell us who put cocaine at the White House Biden Harris justice department who raided president Trump's home Biden Harris justice department who worked with social media companies to censor Americans Biden Harris justice department who let the country believe that the hunter Biden laptop was misinformation when they knew at the time it was authentic and maybe most importantly a Biden Harris justice department who retaliated against whistleblowers who came to this committee and spoke to us about these issues last week we sent you 12 questions about what occurred on July 13th we expect you to answer those questions and the others that I've just outlined and again we thank you for being here today and appreciate your willingness to answer the questions that the committee is going to have and with that I would yield to the ranking member for an opening statement thank you Mr chairman Mr chairman two weeks ago our country witnessed a shocking assassination attempt on a presidential candidate now I disagree with Donald Trump on almost every policy area imaginable I am frequently shocked and outraged at the plans he has for our country and the words that to come out of his mouth and I have dedicated much of the last eight years to fighting his agenda but regardless of my strong feelings about Donald Trump's Behavior I unequivocally and unabashedly condemn with every fiber of my being the attempt against his life this was not just an attack on a man but an attack on our democracy political violence erodes the very foundations of our nation the concepts of freedom of speech of peaceful transitions of power of a democ atic government at its core these cannot exist if political violence is allowed to fester and to go unchecked and if you think that this one assassin's bullet was a bolt out of the blue and not part of a wave of violence that has threatened this nation for years then you have missed the point of what my Democratic colleagues and I have been imploring you to hear for some time election workers many of them working for free face near constant threats of violence in one recent instance an Indiana man pleaded guilty to threatening to kill an election worker who said that there were no irregularities in a recent election that man said quote 10 million plus Patriots will surround you when you least expect it and will exposive kill you close quote that is political violence in another instance speaker mared to Nancy Pelosi's husband was bludgeoned over the head with a hammer by an intruder in his home who had been there to capture miss Pelosi interrogate her and possibly quote break her kneecaps because of her Li liberal views that is political violence the death threat surging against vice president Harris former President Obama and his wife Michelle and Governor d santis as well as many others including videos online of individuals holding guns making assassination threats that is political violence the plot to kidnap Governor Gretchen Whitmer and overthrow parts of the state government that is political violence the brutal deadly attack three years ago against this very building with riers breaking through police barriers to run through these Halls chanting kill Nancy and hang Mike Pence and even hanging a noose outside the building these riers battering Capitol police officers and forcing members of Congress and their staffs to go into hiding squatted in spaces under desks or in closets that is political violence this assassination attempt as horrific as it is should surprise no one and you would think a political party that almost lost their presidential candidate through an active political violence would have something to say about the way their leaders keep talking about the next election Donald Trump is warned there will be a quote bloodbath if he loses Republican Ohio state senator George Lang said just last week at a rally for JD van said he is quote afraid that Civil War might be necessary if Republicans lose the November election President of the right-wing Think Tank and project 2025 leader the Heritage Foundation Kevin Roberts said on Stephen bannon's podcast quote we are in the process of the second American Revolution which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be close quote Republican former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin said in August of last year of Trump's indictments do you want us to be in Civil War because that's what's going to happen we're not going to keep putting up with this we do need to rise up and take our country back close quote I could go on but it's more and more of the same and I hear nothing from the other side of the aisle in this room about these statements you support a bloodbath if you don't get the election outcome you want you justify violence if the left does not agree with you and what exactly has preoccupied this Republican majority while their allies threaten violence to their political enemies real and imagined we have chased down baseless conspiracy theories designed solely to influence the 2024 election in favor of Donald Trump we have spent millions of and thousands of hours of Staff time in more than 100 transcribed interviews chasing false accusations against President Biden supporting an impeachment effort that seemed designed to fail and hunting for a Smoking Gun that simply does not exist and instead of admitting that these investigations found no corruption coercion or unethical Behavior by the B Administration Republicans chose to just dig deeper and spend more money imagine what could have happened if we had spent these thousand thousands of hours of Staff time and those millions of taxpayer dollars addressing even one aspect of the political violence that now threatens our country perhaps had this Republican majority lifted a finger to help a nation that is a washing guns the Assassin and Butler would not have had such easy access to the weapon he used to fire on that crowd director Ray your agencies responsible for addressing some of the most serious issues of our time the Bureau of fights gun violence which claims the lives of 40,000 Americans every year it protects election security from growing threats for mign foreign actors who are working tirelessly to influence our elections it protects against domestic terrorists and violent extremists who have been a growing threat in recent years and have carried out horrific mass shootings and deadly events around the country and so so much more I apologize to you director that instead of supporting you in these missions in the 1008 Congress some of my colleagues have instead hindered your work maligned your agents and called to abolish and and defund your agency all for political gain it is Despicable especially from the party that claims to quote back the blue and I know that you and your many agents and employees have paid the price for these baseless attacks I know you have faced a barrage of threats distrust and vitriol from the public as a result of these wild politically driven conspir iraes I know it has become even more dangerous and difficult for you to come to work each day I may not agree with you on everything but I sincerely thank you and every employee in your agency who continues to protect our country the FBI is vital to keeping America safe and I pray that today we can focus on the real substantive work of the agency it is the least we owe our country in these times I yield back gentleman yields back without objection all other opening statements will be included in the record will now introduce today's witness um The Honorable Christopher Ray has been the director of the FBI since 2017 he previously served as the Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division of the Department of Justice the principal associate Deputy attorney general an associate Deputy attorney general and as assistant us attorney for the Northern District of Georgia again director way you've been here many times we appreciate you being here today and uh look forward to your testimony and answering our questions we will Begin by swearing you in would you please rise and raise your right hand do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is true and correct to the best of your knowledge information and belief so help you God let the record affirm uh let the record reflect that the witness has answered in the affirmative uh thank you and please be seated we we have votes coming in about 10 minutes but we we definitely want to get through your opening statement as far as we can and this is going to be an interesting day on Capitol Hill with uh the prime minister of Israel here as well so director Ray you're recognized for your opening statement good morning chairman Jordan ranking member Nadler members of the committee uh I want to begin by offering my condolences on the passing representative Jackson Lee who served the people of Texas in this body and on this committee for so long thank you all for your support of our efforts to protect the American people and uphold the Constitution I am proud to be here today representing the 38,000 special agents intelligence analysts and professional staff who make up the FBI men and women who every day work relentlessly to counter the most complex threat environment I've seen in my tenure as FBI director maybe in my entire career in law enforcement before I go any further I also want to acknowledge and offer my deepest condolences to the victims of the horrific assassination attempt in Butler County to the friends and family of Corey comparator who by all accounts lost his life protecting others from danger to the other victims two of whom were critically wounded and of course of course to president Trump former president Trump and his family as I've said from the beginning the attempted assassination of the former president was an attack on our democracy and our Democratic process and we will not and do not tolerate political violence of any kind especially a Despicable account of this magnitude and I want to assure you and the American people that the men and women of the FBI will continue to work tirelessly to get to the bottom of what happened we are bringing all the resources of the FBI to Bear both criminal and National Security now there's a a whole lot of work underway and still a lot of work to do and our understanding of what happened and why will continue to evolve but we're going to leave no stone unturned the shooter may be deceased but the FBI's investigation is very much ongoing to that point I also want to acknowledge that I recognize both the Congressional and the public interest in this case and the importance of this investigation to the American people and I understand there are a lot of open questions so while the investigation is very much ongoing and our assessments of the shooter and his actions continue to evolve My Hope here today is to do my best to provide you with all the information I can given where we are at this point I have been saying for some time now that we are living in an elevated threat environment and tragically the Butler County assassination attempt is another example a particularly heinous and very public one of what I've been talking about but it also reinforces our need at the FBI and our ongoing commitment to stay focused on the threats on the mission and on the people we do the work with and the people we do the work for every day all across this country and indeed around the world the men and women of the FBI are doing just that working around the clock to counter the threats we face just in the last year for example in California the FBI and our partners targeted an organized crime syndicate responsible for trafficking fentanyl meth and cocaine all across North America we charged the mexican-based suppliers who brought the drugs into the United States a network of canada-based truck drivers who delivered the drugs and the distributors in the United States who spread the poison into our communities staying on threats emanating from the border I have warned for some time now about the threat that foreign terrorists May seek to exploit our Southwest border or some other Port of Entry to advance a plot against Americans just last month for instance the bureau and our joint terrorism task forces worked with ice in multiple cities across the country as several individuals with suspected International naal terrorist ties were arrested using Isis immigration authorities leading up to those arrests hundreds of FBI employees dedicated countless hours to understand the threat and identify additional individuals of concern now the physical security of the border is of course not in the FBI's Lane but as the threat has escalated we're working with our partners in law enforcement and the intelligence Community to find and stop foreign terrorists who would harm Americans and our interests as concerning as the known or suspected terrorists encountered at the border are perhaps even more concerning are those we do not yet know about because they provided fake documents or because we didn't have information connecting them to terrorism at the time they arrived in the United States staying ahead of today's threats demands that we work together and for the FBI that means doubling down on our Partnerships especially with state and local law enforcement whether it's working through our hundreds of joint terrorism task forces uh to build Out Source networks to identify those who slip through the cracks or targeting the worst of the worst responsible for the violence that still plagues far too many communities through our Safe Streets task forces or taking the fight to the cartels responsible for trafficking the dangerous drugs like fenel pouring into our country and claiming countless American lives staying ahead of the threat also means continuing to disrupt the Cyber criminals ravaging businesses large and small and confronting nation states like China targeting our Innovation and our critical infrastructure at the bureau we're proud to work side by side with our brothers and sisters in federal state and Loc local law enforcement our partners in the intelligence community and others around the world to fulfill our commitment to keep Americans safe now on Friday the FBI will celebrate its 116th anniversary 116 years of protecting the American people and upholding the Constitution 116 years of working with our partners to safeguard the communities we serve 16 years of innovating to stay ahead of the complex evolving and very real threats out there I am proud of the Legacy the men and women of the FBI have built and all they have accomplished for the American people so if I may as we approach this week's anniversary I would just like to say to all those who are part of the FBI family from our current employees to our forers and to our partners across law enforcement and the intelligence Community thank you thank you for dedicating your lives to this country and to its people it is both humbling and an honor to serve alongside you and I look forward to the work we're going to continue to do together and with that thank you again for having me and I look forward to our discussion thank you director Ray excuse me we'll now proceed under the five- minute rule the gentleman from um North Carolina is recognized for five minutes thank you Mr chairman uh director Ray I'm way down here I appreciate the chairman giving me this because I've got to uh leave but let me ask this question why doesn't the FBI disclose to the American people all of the investigative detail and evidence that you are gathering as it is gathered well we have tried to be transparent uh with both Congress and the American people as we're going along in the investigation frankly unusually so for an ongoing investigation given the sheer nature uh of it uh we have provided a lot of information I expect to continue to provide information I expect to be able to provide some additional information here today uh in response to your questions and your colleagues uh but part of the issue uh is that as like in any investigation as we proceed facts evolve our understanding of what somebody said turns out to have more context that we didn't have before uh we have additional leads out there so part of our goal is not just to respect the ongoing investigation process but also to make sure that we don't prematurely provide information that then two days later turns out to be different than what we told people because that's very much uh you know kind of a natural part of any investigation so did Crooks Fire eight shots we have recovered uh eight cartridges on the roof why was Crooks allowed to get off eight shots well that I think is something we're still digging into um again maybe this is a good place for me to make clear uh the different investigations that are going on so because certainly I understand well I and I given that I've only got three minutes left and I know other members I'm I'm really interested because I I appreciate your invitation you said you're prepared to disclose things as questions are asked so I don't want to waste time sort of I just want to get to the questions that might and as many members as can ask questions that you'll answer I actually think you I'd be glad for you to go on Soliloquy frankly and and tell us what you know I think the American people want to know why was President Trump not kept off the stage we don't know the answer to that but I want to be clear and this is important because I think it goes to questions that I can and cannot answer our investigation the FBI's mandate is focused on the shooter and all things related to his attack now obviously I understand very much the intense interest and focus on the secret services performance actions decisionmaking Etc there are two separate after Action reviews the the DHS Inspector General and the outside independent panel that's been convenient to focus on that now our inv everybody understand everybody understands here's the problem we're out 13 days and you say we've been disclosing you know we had the director of the colonel from the PS Pennsylvania State Police in front of Homeland yesterday he was quite candid he disclosed to us that Butler emergency service unit Personnel were posted into the windows on the second floor of the AGR building that they left there to go pursue the person that they spotted Crooks that they texted a photo of crooks to the P to the uh uh PSP representative in the command center that information was relayed to the United State Secret Service they asked that it be texted to someone else that was many minutes before president took Trump took the stand what we don't know is why did he not why did he why were they not keeping him off the stand and to the extent you know I know we always hear when there's a criminal investigation you got to wait for that to develop but the do you have any reason to are you do you have any other Target of your criminal investigation other than crooks who's dead we are investigating the shooter both to determine his motive U and his preparations and activities before the shooting but also to make sure uh whether or not there are any co-conspirators accomplices at this point Have You developed any evidence to so suggest that there are any complies or or Cooperators or sisters not at this time but again the investigations ongoing so here's the thing while we wait maybe for months and I hate to say this just I'm not trying to take a pot shot but we the country went for years with the understanding that the hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation as offered by respected former Intel officials and the whole time the FBI had the laptop and then let that happen in public until finally offering testimony in a case to the degree we wait to hear as a country and as a congress what has happened in this event because the FBI is Con conducting an investigation it provides quarter for the US Secret Service not perhaps to reckon with the problems that are obvious to everyone so just get a couple in while I I've got 13 more seconds one more question perhaps uh Senator Grassley says that the records of the day show that there was a counter unmanned aerial surveillance operator on site was there and why did that person kn prevent Crooks from being able to use a drone so again questions about the secret Services performance are better directed to those other reviews what I can tell you when it comes to drones is that krooks himself had a drone and I'm prepared to answer questions here today about the shooter and his use of the Drone for example my time's expired gentlemen yields back to ranking members recogniz for five minutes thank you Mr chairman as I said in my opening statement political violence is a scorge and entirely unacceptable no matter the source or the target last October far-right conspiracy theorist broke into Nancy Pelosi's home and bludgeoned her husband prominent Republicans mocked the attack and promoted conspiracy theories about it last August an armed Utah man who threatened to kill President Biden was killed as FBI agents attempted to serve a warrant on him hours before President Biden landed in his State some on the right claimed that the was simply a quote Second Amendment Enthusiast and in recent weeks and months those on the right have repeatedly called for quote civil war with an Ohio state senator saying that if Republicans lose the election quote it's going to take a civil war to save the country and it will be saved the president of the Heritage Foundation likewise said that quote we are in the process of the second American Revolution which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be close quote director Ray it's obviously important that we respect first amendment protection but there is clearly a point to which some violent retor crosses over into threats of violence or leads to actual violence could you describe how the FBI looks at this relationship between rhetoric and action and what you are seeing around the country so I appreciate the question and this is an issue that I've been talking about for some time uh you know in our view there is a right way and a wrong way under the First Amendment to express your views no matter how passionate or even angry you are and violence and threats of violence is not the right way and we don't care what you're upset about or who you're upset with when from the FBI's perspective when it turns to violence and threats of violence that's when we have to draw the line that's when we get engaged uh and there is an alarming phenomenon that we've seen over the last several years uh of that kind of passion and heated rhetoric turning into actual violence and threats of violence we've seen it against public officials of All Sorts we've seen it against law enforcement the number of officers shot and killed in the line of duty in this country is frankly outrageous and alarming uh and I know that because every time an officer is shot and killed anywhere in this country since the day I started as FBI director I personally call the chief or the sheriff to express my condolences uh and to talk to them about the the victim's family uh and the number of those shootings that are Ambush related meaning somebody is targeting law enforcement because they're law enforcement is particularly alarming I have made around 400 of those phone calls it's almost every five days that a law enforcement officer is killed in the line of duty and that is an example of the kind of ways in which uh passions and heated rhetoric can bubble over into violence thank you members of Congress their families and their staffs have witnessed an alarming Rising threats against them I appreciate the work your agency has done to investigate and address these threats but I'm concerned that we do not seem to be steming the tide what is the FBI doing to ensure that members of Congress their families and their staffs are safe so we have a very close relationship uh with the Capitol Police um and we have members of the capital police for example who are on some of our task forces we share intelligence information uh about things that we're seeing trends that we're seeing with Capitol Police uh and others in law enforcement obviously if we have specific information about uh an effort to Target a member of Congress then we're getting with Capitol Police in a much more specific way uh but those are some of the things that we're doing thank you now director your office is leading the investigation to the attempted assassination of Donald Trump republicans in Congress including members of this committee have repeatedly called for defunding the FBI what impact would defunding or even just limiting your funding have on the FBI's ability to conduct this and other investigations so I understand that there are heated views opinions about us just like there are about every institution in today's America but cutting our funding is incredibly shortsighted and the people it really hurts our state and local law enforcement and the American people were all sworn to protect thank you during my remaining time I want to turn into a different matter in recent days Republican members of Congress have attacked presumptive Democratic Presidential nominee Cala Harris as a quote Dei Dei candidate which presumably is code for women and person of color it's not a new theme for them in May chairman Jordan wrote to you claiming that because of Dei initiatives the FBI is no longer hiring quote the best and brightest candidates to fill the position of Special Agent with remaining time with my remaining time director can you please answer the following questions is it true that hiring women and people of color means that FBI is no longer hiring the best and the brightest to serve as Law Enforcement Officers is there any evidence that women and people of color are less effective in law enforcement roles and what message does it send to prospective applicants when the leaders demean them and make judgments about them based solely on the race or gender winess May respond so any notion that we have lowered our standards our hiring standards is just not accurate uh in fact the our standards are as competitive and selective as ever we have 10 of thousands of people applying and our selection rate is about 3.1% which is more selective than just about any University in the country uh and most of our applicants I think like something like 50% of them are coming from military or law enforcement backgrounds about 50% of them also have advanced degrees uh the average age is around 31 which means they're bringing a wealth of personal and professional experience when they arrive and to suggest that those people because of efforts related to diversity or anything like that uh are less qualified frankly is not at all consistent with what I see having visited all of our field offices and seen these young people in action I think is an insult to those hardworking men and women who've signed up to dedicate their lives for this country thank you director I yield back gentleman yields back uh director let me go back to where Mr Bishop was tell me about the Drone you act like you wanted to fill us in on that fill us in so uh we have recovered a drone uh uh that the shooter uh appears to have used uh it's being exploited and analyzed by the FBI lab uh the Drone was recovered uh in his vehicle so at the time of the shooting the Drone was in his vehicle uh with the controller uh in addition our investigation has uncovered do you know what time of day he flew it and if he flew it on the day shot oh I'm sorad ahead so in addition it appears that around uh 3:50 p.m. 4:00 in that window uh on the day of the shooting uh that the shooter was flying the Drone around uh the area about 11 minutes I want to be clear but when I say the area not over the the stage and that part of the area itself I would say about 200 yards give or take away from that we we think but we do not know so again this is one of these things that's qualified because of our ongoing review that he was live streaming you know View doing the footage from that again about 11 minutes in around the 35 4:00 p.m. range 2 hours before he's flying a drone in the in the vicinity of of the about 200 yards away yard okay that's that's important information what about the bombs that we' heard about in in the in the shooter's car so again uh the FBI lab is exploiting those uh explosive devices there were uh We've recovered three devices two uh in his vehicle and one back in his residence uh are these are these what you would call your experts would call sophisticated operations or this I mean I think I I don't know that's what I've been told by people who have some understanding of this area yeah I I I think it's um we've seen more sophisticated and less I would say these are relatively again keyword relatively crude devices themselves but they did have um the ability to be detonated remotely and so to that point uh in addition to the two uh devices that we recovered out of his vehicle um there were uh receivers for those two explosive devices with the devices and then on the shooter himself uh when he was killed by law enforcement uh he had a transmitter with him now I do want to add one important Point here was at the moment it looks to us again ongoing review and I can't say that too many times at a moment it looks like because of the uh onoff position on the receivers that that if he had tried to detonate those devices from the roof it would not have worked but that doesn't mean the explosives weren't dangerous and I'm sure we're going to get into all these subjects a little bit later as well uh tell us tell us what you can about the encrypted platforms we've heard about so um one of the things that we're drilling into hard with the shooter um in an effort to try to learn more about his State of Mind his motive his ideology his context everything else is to look at all of his devices any social media accounts he had Etc and uh one of the things we've learned in finally getting into his phone which was also a significant technical Challenge from an encryption perspective but in addition once we got on the phone it turned out he was using some encrypted messaging applications and again the same question uh relative to the bombs is this was this pretty sophisticated or is this this is the kind of the norm you see with folks like you know similar situation how would you this on this subject I would say this has unfortunately now become very commonplace and it's a real challenge for not just the FBI but state and local law enforcement all over the tell me exactly the scope of does the scope of your investigation include what I what I call that critical five minutes from when the 609 when this is based I think on information you've given to Congress 609 when the shooters identified on the roof and 614 when President Trump is ultimately escorted off and all that happens the shots that take place in between there do you have access to the communications that were going on at the time in that critical 5 minutes so uh our our investigation when you say scope our investigation includes that time frame although focused again on the shooter himself and his involved that he's obviously involved in that time frame correct and as part of that as part of our focus our investigation of the shooter and and the attack uh of course we are interviewing law enforcement from the scene because those are some of the most significant Witnesses and we're to getting access to their materials and that kind of thing and the Secret Service Cooperative you you have access to the communications that exist there that exact question I don't as I sit here at the moment I don't know the exact answer to that question but I know that secret service has been Cooperative with us the Congress would like access to those Communications as well I mean not just at five minutes although I think that's the critical time frame there's lots of communications we'd love to have access as well I see my time is up and they have called votes on the floor I think there are about six minutes left in votes so we committee will stand in recess until approximately 10 minutes after votes conclude on the house floor committee will come to order the chair recognize the gentle lady from California for five minutes uh thank you Mr chairman and thank you director Ray for being here with us today before I uh ask anything let me just uh Echo the comments made by others especially the ranking member decrying uh the state of political violence in this country it's completely unacceptable uh we have a democratic system that allows for us to disagree but not to take those disagreements uh to violence that's what we have elections for and I want to also thank you and uh all of the FBI uh for the work that you do and frankly the abuse unwarranted abuse and criticism that have been directed to you by conspiracy theorists and others doesn't make your hard job any easier and I want you to know that many of us notice that and appreciate the work that you and your team are doing uh let me just ask a a couple of quick questions first many of us are interested in the motives of uh the shooter here um you when when it's a an assault on a political figure you immediately assume there's a political motive and that may be the case here we don't know yet but I was interested in what you're seeing on uh his his phone the Press has reported that he had pictures not only of Mr Trump but of Mr Biden and various other members political figures can you discern was there a you know an element of you know mainly Republicans maybe Democrats was it all over the board can you Enlighten us about that well this is a place where it's particularly important for me to reiterate the caveat that I've included before because in this instance in particular particular we have a lot of legal process out for additional uh accounts and things like that um that the shooter is associated with so we're hoping to learn more and we're still exploiting a number of the digital devices um I think it's fair to say that we do not yet have a clear picture of his motive and I think it's important for me to explain because I understand of course why everybody wants to know the answers to those questions often in an investigation from interviewing uh people that the subject was in close contact with looking at the individual's subject social media accounts messages often things physical evidence in the person's residence you might see a Manifesto things like that we're not seeing that yet um but we are digging in heart because this is one of the central questions for us what I can say is that uh the shooter appears to have uh done a lot of searches of public figures in general but so far we're seeing kind of news articles and things like that and so the images that have been reported about really what we're talking about there are when you when you do a news search of an article see the image appears in the cach as opposed to like a search for that specific individual uh but again I really want to be clear that that's a place that we're doing a lot of work right now uh and some more to come on that well I thank you for that clarification we're interested also in um the role of access to weapons uh when it comes to this terrible crime the shooter used a semi-automatic rifle really a weapon of war that sadly has also been used in mass shootings around the country including in my own District it seems to me that the assault weapons ban that was once in place has to be a part of the national answer to curbing the epidemic of gun violence in America I wonder if you could with your help director Ray understand a few aspects of the investigation it's my understanding that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco firearms and explosives ATF was quickly able to trace the gun the gun uh the gun's purchaser using records from an outof business gun store records that the government is re re required to correct some of my colleagues on the other side of the a have suggested that collection should stop there have been efforts to digitize it which have been resisted can you tell us about how the the origin of this gun purchase was discovered and uh the technology used what I well I guess what I can say is um the uh we located a number of firearms uh associated with the shooter and his family uh I think it was a total of I think 14 in the house um the the uh weapon that he used uh for the attempted assassination uh was an AR style rifle uh that was purchased legally uh that he um is my understanding uh acquired I think bought actually from his father who was the one who originally bought it again legally thank you Mr chairman my time is expired so I yieldb gent lady yields back gentlemen from California is recognized thank you uh director I'll try to ask questions that that are answerable too I think that's been done pretty well on both sides uh you do the advanced threat assessment and deliver that information as to the general threat and then specifics as to protected people to the Secret Service is that correct well sort of uh the Secret Service does a threat assessment but they're doing that based on intelligence that they receive from a number of sources including of course the FBI so we share sh whenever we have thread information related to a particular individual or protecte then we share it with the secret service at a number of levels so you're a participant but ultimately the responsibility for threat assessment as to these individuals belongs to the Secret Service well again the threat assessment for the individual belongs to the secret service but we are an important part of that because we share threat information if we have any uh they get threat information from a variety of sources so and and you get them from that same VAR variety of sources they've got no sources that are ex excluded from the FBI do they well not I don't know I'm not aware of any that are excluded from the FBI but they may receive information that comes directly to them that didn't come to us sure okay uh director do you believe that former president Trump was a a high-risk threat under your assessment well I I believe that former president Trump uh can really frankly like any president or former president is a very high profile figure and attracts a lot of unfortunately the kind of threat been talking about it's fair to say not on a scale of one to a million with little nuances but on a scale of 1 to 10 president Trump's risk was very similar to a current president very similar to because he was the presumptive nominee and uh leading in the polls and so on that that uh that he was a high risk by any standard is that correct certainly there's a reason why he has so much protection around him okay uh Robert F Kennedy Jr the son of assassinated Senator and the nephew of an assassinated President would you say he was also as a presidential candidate at significant risk again I think any presidential candidate that raises some level of risk it might vary from candidate to but it's clearly a risk okay um so uh in a nutshell the day before this attack president Trump was documented not to have gotten on multiple occasions from the Secret Service what they asked for the day after it looks like they're getting more the day before RFK had been denied by the president multiple times Secret Service protection the day after he now has it so now my question is is the actions of a 20-year-old with a lone gunman on a roof sufficient to change the risk assessment in your mind for president Trump and RFK or are we just realizing the threat that was always there and being more appropriate in matching it and and I know that's a little vague but but you've been at this for a long time hindsight is 2020 now that we have hindsight is it fair to say that giving Robert F Kennedy Jr security upping the security including own overhead support for the president former president these are all things that in hindsight should have been done the day before well let me try to answer your question this way of course as I said you know the assessments of the level of security to be provided to individual protection no no I understand it's a secret service decision but what I would say to you uh is that and I've been saying for quite some time uh including in front of Committees of this Congress that we are in an elevated threat we have been for some time uh and that comes from a variety of quarters uh it is a it is quite frankly a dangerous time to be a prominent public official in in regards to that the other side has spent a lot of time talking about what people on the right have said but there was an attempted assassination on the Supreme Court Justice we have had the highest ranking Senator on the other side of this body uh saying that there were actions that they were accountable we have had multiple members of Congress in both the house and the Senate uh berating the the character of uh members of the Supreme Court as a result of their uh uh their their decisions made both you know sometimes 63 sometimes unanimous whatever are those comments not any one of them but are those comments and the generation of that sort of oh thisy bad for democracy this this Supreme Court Justice is a threat to democracy is that the kind of thing that raises the Threat Level and would you caution against that well I I do believe that uh we've seen an increase in threats of violence which again that's the FBI's Lane not rhetoric no matter how Despicable or heated it is but violence and threats of violence we have seen an uptake and threats towards judges among other prominent public officials including as you say a case that we helped investigate involving a threat to a sitting Supreme Court Justice um an attempt an attempt thank you right um and uh I think it's a reflection of a broader phenomenon that we are seeing in this country uh where people again very passionate I respect that very angry I respect that but there's a right way and a wrong way to express yourself when you're angry and and violence and threats of violence just can't be it and that's where we fit in we it's not my role as FBI director to call out you know particular people's rhetoric there's a place for that um but that's that's not my role as FBI director but but when it turns to violence and threats of violence that is has to be treated as unacceptable and that's the way we look at it thank you Mr chairman I yield back director when the FBI learn that Iran was threatening president Trump's life so I want to I want to be a little bit careful here not talk about specific classified information but um we have been for quite some time uh and I'll stick with what's in the open record we for some time and I in particular for some time have been calling out uh the efforts by the Iranian government to attempt to retaliate for the uh the killing of solomani by going after uh current or former prominent us officials and we we've even had an indictment against it and I think that we need to recognize the brazenness of the Iranian regime including right here in the United States and I expect that we're going to see more of it and I expect there'll be more coming on that I'm not aware of any threat information uh related to protes that wasn't you know passed in a timely way but I can't really get into specifics here it's it it's minority's time here but I just felt that was a question the committee need to understand and it's and it sounds like you've known that for long Secret Service any information related to threats against uh the former president which again as we've sort of talked about is um happens all too often is something that we have a whole process that we routinely share with secret service at a number of levels in a timely way and to my knowledge that has consistently been followed gentleman from Georgia is recognized thank you Mr chairman uh thank you for being here director Ray um director Ray the FBI is the independent law enforcement agency under the Department of Justice is that correct yes and does the FBI director currently uh report to [Music] anyone well uh you mean in a chain of command uh reporting structure kind of thing yeah so um the FBI is part of the justice department uh on the orc chart you would see that the FBI director and this has been true for decades reports to the deputy attorney general who reports to the attorney general obviously reports in a communication sense I I report to any number of people as opposed to a micromanagement reporting system uh correct and you would take issue would you not with any proposal that would change or alter that chain of Comm demand and place you or place a uh FBI director in the position of reporting directly to the president would you not you would oppose that I I don't think that would be a wise reporting structure um I think the structure that we've had for decades now uh makes sense um I think there's a difference between Independence uh in a sort of organizational structure perspective and Independence in terms of the way you do the work obviously FBI is part of the justice department we're reporting directly to the president would um uh eliminate uh your Independence would it not I don't think it would help yeah and you're familiar with uh project 2025 are you not I mean I've seen you know news reports about it I'm notare familiar with it you aware that it is a game plan for for president Trump's first 120 days in office correct I I'm really not familiar with the details again I've seen rep it is and uh what he proposes to do is to force the FBI director to appoint uh to uh report directly to him that's what he wants to do within the first 120 days he also wants to eliminate the uh position of FBI general counsel that is also set forth in project 2025 how would you recommend that I think the FBI's office of General Council serves an incredibly important role including uh in terms of advising our Workforce we have 38,000 people the idea of having uh an organization like ours an independent law enforcement agency like ours that doesn't have its own general council's office doesn't make sense to me well it would seem like any proposal that would force the director to report the to the president and then uh there would be no legal counsel for the uh director of the FBI that that that uh seems like it's an attempt to neuter the FBI and and render it uh uh accountable only to the president isn't that correct well I let me put it this way I I recognize that the FBI director this FBI director and FBI director before me serves at the pleasure of the president uh and that's part of our system um I was appointed by President Trump um I respect that that I think that's a part of our structure but Independence in terms of how we do our work is what matters to me and we need to be able to do our work in a way that is free from political inter well you wouldn't be able to do that by reporting everything you do to the president and getting his authority and approval before you take action correct I don't think that would be a wise approach and then there's even a proposal to replace many of those 38,000 uh dedicated uh civil servants who work for the FBI replaced them with a Maga group that has pledged its allegiance to Donald Trump what danger would that bring to the FBI if that were to happen well again I I have haven't read or reviewed this thing that you're refering what I say is but the FBI is made up of the FBI is made up of 38,000 dedicated career law enforcement professionals it has no political appointees of any kind unless you count me as a nom change either I don't think that should change I think that ACH part of how we do our work being being the employees of the FBI we're coming up on 116 years of the FBI and that's the way it has been for6 would be crazy to take 38,000 magga loyalist and put them at the FBI that's frightening that's what project 2025 proposes and I'm glad to know that you are um not with uh that program and with that I you back gentlemen you back gentlemen from Florida is recognize was the shooter on the FBI's radar in any way prior to the assassination attempt we did not have any information uh about the shooter he was not in our Holdings um before the shooting no communication in any chat rooms no CIS or confidential human sources have any interaction with no we've run a a thorough search uh for the subject through all of our Holdings and and he was not in them anywhere were there any FBI agents or informants present at the Trump rally in Butler not to my knowledge uh in Mr Jordan was talking to you about Iran were law enforcement resources diverted from the protection of President Trump to John Bolton as a consequence of concern that Mr Bolton might have been the target of of Iranian uh malign efforts uh that's really a secret service decision I don't I don't know the answer to that uh that's really something they would know better what I can tell you is that um there are a number of individuals you mentioned one who we've brought a case uh a specific criminal case for the Iranians targeting for assassin but how are you going are you going to get that answer to us whether or not resources were diverted from Trump to Bolton is that just going to be part of your review I think that's going to be part of the reviews by the inspector the Inspector General Inspector General for DHS right of DHS and the and the outside I think that's an important point because the Inspector General for DHS has really fallen out of favor with the administration because he's been pointing out all the problems on the border with my orcus and Biden and we're always kind of worried that they're about to fire him which would be a really bad idea now that this role that you've identified is is so critical be be a bad idea to fire the IG for DHS during the pendency of this right Mr director I don't think that would be a good idea I'm I'm with you on that so I want to zoom out a little bit how often do you brief President Biden uh you mean on this specific case no in your role as FBI director I mean I I don't know that I could give you a number I've is it like weekly monthly daily it's it's not it's not at a regular Cadence there have been times when there have been months at a time when I haven't and then there have been times when several days apart I have it's always with other people uh the vice president is she typically there uh often has been okay so so when did you notice his decline in my interactions in my role uh all my interactions with the current president have been completely professional right but I mean his the cognitive decline I don't saying he treated you unprofessionally just maybe not picking things up as quickly as he used to again I I don't meet with him very often uh but what you're describing is not something that I've observed during my interactions with him I mean' we've had it observed so often that the ranking member and Mr Schiff on this committee have said that he could no longer continue as a candidate and so since you're the FBI director I was just sort of wondering like who's running the country if something if something yeah so if something bad happened you'd have to go brief President Biden about it right now God forbid and I on any number of occasions I have briefed the president and as I said those briefings have all been uneventful and unremarkable well I I I could imagine them being uneventful um the but but in in the work where the vice president's also present like you say there's like more than half the time there's these briefings she's there too I don't know if i' said more than half the time certainly there have been times where she's been president there have been other times where she hasn't I take you at your word when you say this is the most complicated threat environment you've ever observed over a long career in law enforcement and I'm just kind of wondering with this assassination attempt with the invasion at our border with all the Hamas that have been LED in that you've talked about and briefed about like is Biden up to it and if he's not up to it and you're a guy who's been regularly briefing him like who who's been in on this conspiracy to hide the real Joe Biden from all of us for years it never occurred to you that this guy wasn't up to it in all these briefings you did as I said my briefings with the president have all been completely fine um were they between asked questions there hasn't been anything of note in the area that you're talking yeah did did you ever have to brief him before 10: a.m. or after 4 P.M we hear those are his good hours I can't I certainly times that I have briefed have included outside those hours right okay I just you know I I think the American people want to know how we got to this point with someone who's very so diminished his own party has basically put him out to pasture and since you had close proximity and the vice president had close proximity I'm just kind of wondering if uh if you were being straight with all of us about how things were going with him I guess we'll have to figure that out you can count on me to be straight with you sir we'll see you gentleman y's back gentleman from Tennessee is recognized thank you firstly I'd like to recognize unfortunate the fact that our colleague and my colleagues side by side made for many many years in this committee Sheila Jackson Le's no longer with us she was a great member and a force for America and our losses Bel great secondly I'd like to say to the FBI director that there were some remarks made when you were introduced preemptory remarks saying that people don't have great faith in the FBI and etc etc etc I have great faith in the FBI and I think most of us on this side of the aisle do we appreciate your work and you appreciate you're being here some on the other side of the aisle have cast dispersions upon the FBI and upon law enforcement and if they don't want to support law enforcement that's their business but I support law enforcement and the FBI is the top rank of law enforcement in our country so I thank you and all of your people that work with you secondly there's been some questions about the FBI may be being weaponized did President Biden ever ask you to get involved in the case in Orlando Florida where Kevin McCarthy says that Mr Gates is investigated for some sexual involvement with a 17-year-old girl did did the president or anybody in the Democratic party as Mr McCarthy has suggested weaponized you and tried to get you involved in that case no sir good thank you I just wanted to make sure of that um Butler Pennsylvania I read something about a ladder he used a ladder to get up up on that roof and that the ladder was found somewhere a distance away is that true uh so we do know that he purchased a ladder um uh I think it if I recall correctly it was about a 5 foot uh tall type of ladder uh but importantly we did not find the ladder at the scene uh so it's not clear that he used the ladder uh to get on top of the roof you think we're still digging into all that that uh things related to the ladder and his access to the roof but he did buy a ladder but the ladder was not found at the the scene ladder didn't have any feed on it it didn't walk off right thank you sir there have been a lot of threats against public officials we've seen Mr scales terribly shot and we've saw Gabby gford shot and other Congress people and many of us have had death threats and the FBI had made aware of those to help protect us and I appreciate that greatly but we've also had a lection officials and pole workers threatened what is the FBI doing in consultation with other law enforcement to ensure every eligible voter can safely and confid confidently cast a ballot this year so when it comes to threats to election workers in particular uh you know we participate in the election threats task force that doj set up uh we also uh and there have been a number quite a number already of arrests and convictions uh under that task force uh we have got a number of Investigations underway that involve all kinds of threats to election workers ranging from online threats to uh there was even some mailings that included fenel uh so there's been a number of types of threats to election workers and these are after all people who are putting in their own time for the good of the country to try to help us have a functioning democracy and so the idea that they would be targeted with violence uh is just outrageous uh we are sharing information with uh election officials uh about things to be on the lookout for we have election crime coordinators and all 50 you'll be prepared for election day with additional FBI will be looking out for yes thank you thank you um Jeffrey Epstein um been in the news a lot lately about involvement with certain people high in politics involved did the FBI conduct the raid on his uh townhouse in New York when he was uh incarcerated in uh New York there was a raid on his East Side townhouse well I don't know about a raid I I I know we executed a number of searches in the course of our fairly extensive investigation related you tell me during that search if you came across and have within your the possession of the FBI tapes of him with other individuals that he might have taken in people in compromising bus I don't I don't know that there's anything I can share related to that I can see if there's information we could provide and maybe get back to on it um if there were tapes of people in prominent positions friends of his he posts for pictures with possibly in compromising positions it would be the public I think has a right to see those well I mean how we handle evidence recovered in a criminal investigation uh has all kinds of rules that apply to it uh I recognize the intense public interest in the subject but we' have to follow our rules but I'm happy like I said I'm happy to follow up with my team on thank you sir and I appreciate your service and uh and thank you for being here today gentleman yield the last five chair now recognize the gentleman from Arizona thank you m thank you Mr chairman and thank you director Ray for being here how many shots did the shooter fire well we we know that he fired at least eight because we recovered eight cartridges on the roof okay and are all the the cartridges and the unspent bullets have they been you know how many there are you've accounted for all of those I assume yeah we believe we have we believe we have again there's was lots of work still ongoing but yes we believe we have accounted and did the recovered shells the cartridges match the shooter's rifle my recollection is yes and you conducted analysis that confirms that uh well we work with ATF but yes there so so some of the work has been divided up but and uh how many shells uh casings were recovered from the location of the counter snipers I'm sorry I couldn't hear the last part uh from the counter snipers location uh that I don't have the answer at least here at my fingertips okay um would did The Blood and Tissue pattern of the shooter did it match the stories or the the witness testimony that you've heard so far can you uh well I'm not sure I'm following the the question well you I assume you've interviewed the counter snipers you have that evidence and other Witnesses describing uh the the the kill of the shooter um and I'm wondering if the The Blood and Tissue and brain matter is consistent with the testimony that you're receiving in other words it's the physical terms of the manner of death exactly the physical evidence consistent with where the shot from the counter took place yeah so um so the autopsy is being handled by uh as Is Not Unusual the state Authority uh my understanding is uh thus far I don't think it's fully complete uh which is not again not totally unusual uh but so far uh nothing remarkable uh on that on that front that's that's from the body itself but from actually the scene where the shooter was found is everything consistent with the testimony the physical evidence at the scene is that consistent with the testimony you've seen that you've heard so far uh so far yes again ongoing investigation were you able to determine whether the shooter took the gun uh up with him when he climbed up to the top of the roof or was it already placed there somewhere so that is something that we're drilling into right now uh that we don't know the answer to yet I can tell you which may be relevant though to your question that um and I don't think this has been reported yet that the uh weapon had a collapsable stock which could explain uh why it might have been less easy for people to observe you know because one of the things that we're finding is people have observed him the first people to observe him with the weapon were when he was already on the roof and we haven't yet found anybody with firsthand uh observation of him with the weapon walking around beforehand so that doesn't mean he wasn't obviously but but the collapsible stock is is potentially a very significant feature that might be relevant to that did he have a scope I I believe so but I just as I sit here right now I don't remember okay um you you mentioned uh about two hours before the incident that that he'd had a drone and he was using a drone i instead of me putting words in your mouth just tell me what how you discovered the Drone how you discovered that the time um and what how you disc discovered if you can describe what he would have been observing with a drone and how you determined that please so this is a something that's uh very much ongoing right now we're going back and forth with our lab as they continue to do work on it what I would say is the Drone was in his car uh as I said we've been able to by exploiting the Drone uh determine you know its use and flight paths there were no uh pictures or videos on the Drone of uh of the day of the rally for example but we have been able to to reverse engineer the flight path of the Drone from the day of the rally and that's how we know that for about 11 minutes from I think it's around 3:50 p.m. to 400 p.m. somewhere in that range he was flying the Drone and we have the flight path it's about 200 yards away from where former president Trump would ultimately be speaking uh and so that would have primarily given him a vantage point um trying don't think how to describe this if if the former president's Podium was that way the Drone would be uh over here looking you know say 200 yards again off this way looking back so it would have shown the shooter we think again this we're still doing more work on this I really want to qualify what I'm saying but I'm trying to be transparent and lean in here we think it would have shown him uh kind of what would have been behind him when you say behind him behind the the shooter correct like in other words almost like giving him a rear viw mirror the the scene behind him except again he wasn't flying it overhead while he was later back because the stage I assume was already set he'd been able to assess that angle with the rooftop as well forward and backward I assume well certainly going towards the towards the podium again we're still trying to figure out exactly what he saw because we're having to in effect because there's no recording of what he saw during those 11 minutes you know our hypothesis at this point the experts think he would have been live streaming it and so we're trying to in effect say okay if this was the flight pattern given these capabilities of the Drone what would you have seen what could you have seen for those 11 minutes and again it's it wasn't over the the stage or the kind of the Hub of the rally it's about 200 yards away but it looks like it would have been looking let's say you know a length of a football field or so more you know kind of towards towards the the podium great thank you Mr how many separate times was the shooter on the premises uh so again with the caveat that were continued to do work on it we we believe that the first time he traveled to the the grounds uh was I think a week before uh and he spent roughly 20 minutes there uh then he went to the grounds again uh on the morning of the event it appears uh for about 70 minutes I think but but again I I qualify that I'd have to go back and look to be sure of that part um and then he came back in the afternoon so that would be I guess a third time um for good uh but that included uh things like this drone activity we just talked about gentleman from uh California recognized thank you Mr chairman um director thank you for appearing thank you for the extraordinary job that you're doing uh please convey our thanks to the men and women at the Bureau for their incredible work um I've worked with them since I was an assistant us attorney uh more than 30 years ago um let me start with a threshold question I'm curious about um when I applied to be an assistant us attorney I had to go through a background check um do candidates for the FBI have to go through background checks yes uh would someone with dozens of felony convictions survive a background check for the bureau no so they would never be hired by The Bureau no um well clearly the bureau has you don't have to comment on this I know you won't but clearly the bureau has higher standards for their hiring than one of America's great political parties um let me turn to the events of the the tragic shooting um have you been able to gain access to the shooters electronic communications uh social media and with the caveats that you mentioned that the investigation is still early have you been able to make any deductions or um are there any indications of the shooters motivation from those electronic uh Holdings so in terms of our ability to access it we have uh been able to um get into and exploit a number of electronic devices digital devices but not all of them yet and then within uh his various accounts we've been able to get access to some of them but some of them we're still waiting on some of them we' may never get access to because of the encryption issue uh that it presents an increasingly uh vexing barrier for law enforcement not just the FBI but for law enforcement all over the country uh but so we're still drilling into that uh we have some information some places we've been able to look some places we will be able to look some places we may never be able to see no matter how good our legal process is but that's what we're looking at right now in terms of what we've been able to find so far a lot of the usual uh repositories of information have not yielded um anything notable in terms of motive uh or like ideology having said that it does appear fairly clear uh that he was interested in public figures kind of more broadly and and I think this is important that uh starting uh somewhere around uh July 6th or so he became very focused on uh former president Trump on this rally um and so one of the things that I can share here today that has not been shared yet is that we've just in the last couple days uh found that from our review to your point about devices uh analysis of a laptop that the investigation ties to the shooter uh reveals that on July 6th he did a Google search for quote how far away was Oswald from Kennedy um and so that's a surch obviously is significant in terms of his state of mind um we that is the same day that it appears that he registered for the butler rally and when you say that his uh electronic Holdings indicated an interest in different public figures without uh revealing anything you're not comfortable revealing about those public figures can you tell us anything generally about them um either the offices they hold their political party or was it simply people of a high profile uh well a couple things first the um the images that we've recovered so far from I can't remember which of his various devices were appear to be what we call cached images from searches of news articles so if you do a news article search of course image you if there are photos on it those photos get stored automatically in your cache as opposed to me searching or him searching for a specific person and getting up images of that person uh as far as the pictures that are like that there's doesn't seem to be a whole lot of Rhyme or Reason to it so far uh other than these are you know all prominent public people but they they cover both parties they cover both um uh us people and even some foreign uh public officials uh so that part doesn't appear to that that one repository of information doesn't appear to be overly indicative of motive other than interest in in public figures but that could be just because he was reading news stories so we're still trying drill into that that's why all these outstanding uh legal process returns that we're waiting on for various accounts platforms Etc you know any one of them could be a one that would have very indicative very important information if I could permitted one very short additional question chairman uh from that any indication of any other particular Target that is someone who uh was not just sort of generically the subject of the searches you described but for which there was more of an interest than others there's the information I just described at the moment does not appear prly indicative of targeting um in its own right uh but again that dot once we get other information could connect in a way that might be more meaningful but uh I really I'm sharing that piece of information with this committee and with the American public but I think it's important that we put down a qualification this does not appear to be some kind of Target list or something like that this is is cached images from running searches of news stories um and again there's nothing at the moment that there's no pattern from that particular piece of information that is overly remarkable so far thank you thank you chairman gent y's back gentleman from California is recognized Mr director You' previously told us that you consider the situation on the southern border to be a massive security threat to our country is is that still your assessment I I stand by my prior testimony and in fact um just uh in the last uh month or so um we've you know conducted a significant uh series of arrests I say we our joint terrorism task force is working with ice of a number of individuals uh with suspected International terrorism ties and I have also been very vocal about the fact that U since and this is really since the last time I appeared uh before you uh that we are increasingly concerned about the possibility not just of a of a foreign terrorist inspired attack which is very much very much a concern but the even the potential for a coordinated foreign terrorist attack perhaps like what we've seen uh against the concert hall in Russia for example but just here in the United States well the the the the 19 suicide bombers overstate visas were responsible for 3,000 American deaths on on 911 what's your best estimate of the number of foreign terrorists who are now in our country I don't I mean I don't know that I could give you that number uh what I can tell you is uh we have lots of foreign terrorism related investigations uh but that doesn't mean that all of them came in you know illegally or anything anything like that it seems to me the the the simplest Act of terrorism would be for for uh dozens of of gorillas to attack low security high density venues for example Friday night High School football games all across the country at the same hour uh with bombs and automatic weapons that would produce thousands of casualties from coast to coast in a matter of minutes uh How likely is such a scenario well what you're describing uh would require of course a lot of coordination uh but what I will tell you and I think you're on to a particularly important point from my perspective which is that uh unlike the 911 attacks which again I was in FBI headquarters on the day of 9/11 and so I remember it vividly and I've spent plent plent of time in the period after that in my prior positions engaged with the families and the victims but uh what we're seeing more and more with the foreign terrorist threat and frankly also the domestic uh terrorism threat is a focus on kind of like what you're talking about what I would call soft targets which is really for the American people's benefit just intelligence Community speak for where everyday people live their everyday lives what terrorist groups have now infiltrated our country that you're tracking well in I don't know that I would say infiltrated we have uh investigations as we speak that relate to Isis and its Affiliates we have investigations as we speak that relate to Al-Qaeda we have investigations as we speak that relate to al-shabab we have investigations as we speak that relate to U the Iranian proxies Hezbollah uh and so the frankly even the irgc Cs Force itself what what foreign criminal uh gangs uh are now in our country that you're most concerned with well foreign criminal gangs I mean I we obviously have investigations a lot of Investigations into you know gangs like MS13 for example uh and some of its counterparts uh although I think if you were to talk to most Chiefs and sheriffs like I'm doing every week uh we shouldn't underestimate uh how prevalent neighborhood gangs are really a lot of the gang violence that I'm concerned about those that we've allowed in through the southern border and what thre they are now posing uh uh do you believe that the vetting performed at the Southwest border is adequate to ensure uh that aliens with terrorists or or criminal gang ties are not being released into the United States well I it's not really me for me to speak to the vetting what I would tell you is that uh you have to deal with it once they're released in the United States and and one of the concerns that I have uh which I touched on briefly in my opening um is there's been a lot of focus on the number of known or suspected terrorists encountered at the border and that number has increased over the last five or six years and that should be of concern but frankly to me the bigger concern is individuals who who weren't uh either weren't on the watch list at the time they came in because there wasn't information known yet that ties them to terrorism and it's only after they get in that some new piece of information develops somewhere overseas and now we know that's a bigger con we've been warned that that they basically vet against a blank sheet of paper if they they don't have a record in this country uh border patrol probably doesn't have uh any any uh record they're releasing in the country and you find out later of of of the dangers or or if they use fake documents and there aren't Biometrics to to uh you know connect them you know sometimes I think sometimes there are people who come in who because of the nature of the threat information that put somebody on the watch list there wasn't you know fingerprints from the person at the time because not every piece of intelligence comes with fingerprints so then the guy comes in using a fake ID and of course and there's no reason to connect them to and of course the 2 million Goda ways you know absolutely nothing about exactly well I don't I don't know about absolutely nothing because we may come across them in other things I mean one of the key parts of our Collective defense here uh is that we work with 800,000 uh sworn law enforcement across the country and we train them on the right questions to ask and things like that so that we can build in additional eyes and ears if they you know do a traffic stop or whatever happens to be we run a greater chance of leveraging all that to pick up people who may have slipped through the cracks gentleman you back the gentleman from California just recogniz director we're about a 100 days until the election Russ has attacked our democracy in past elections are they seeking to do it in this one uh we assess that the Russian government continues to want to influence uh and in various ways interfere with our democracy uh with our electoral process in fact uh just in the last few weeks we announced a significant disruption of a uh generative AI enhanced uh social media you know bot Farm essentially of the Russians uh that was design designed to be an influence operation uh and some of the fake fictitious profiles of uh of those Bots purported to be us persons so they're still at it uh we've seen that in election cycle after election cycle the Russians have a preferred candidate uh I'm not sure that I could speak to that uh here but certainly what I would tell is it's not just the Russians uh and I think that's important for people to know too there's a lot of attention to the Russians as there should be um but we also know uh you may recall that uh in 2020 uh director rackliffe and I announced uh an effort by the Iranians to try to interfere and more recently we've had indictments uh related to China 34 Chinese MPS officers creating fictitious person posting false information online uh full of narratives designed to sew device in this Discord undermine us and I'm talking about narratives that they were pushing again purporting to be Americans but actually Chinese NPS officers uh for example trashing any suggestion that covid came from a lab leak or uh trashing uh US law enforcement on the occasion of the anniversary of George Floyd's um death and shifting to the attempted assassination on the former president I want to make it clear in America violence has never been the answer not on a certain day in January or a recent day in July and I just want to go through the shooting just briefly with you how many armed officers were within the perimeter just ballpark figure you know that really goes to the security posture which is the subject of of the inspector the DHS inspector General's review and the outside panel independent panel that's would you say probably more than 100 though I have to believe that number but I don't again I don't have that number at my fingertips our focus is on the shooter and and his attack and the shooter was able to get eight shots off before he was killed that's what it would appear yes type of weap weapon used by the shooter was an assault rifle was an AR style rifle so that means one trigger pull one round is that right uh essentially do you like to shoot do I yeah yeah yes do you know the difference between an AR and a bolt action rifle I'm not going to try to sit here and engage on sort of firearms expertise but um but I fired a variety of weapons but had the shooter used a bolt action rifle would that have been one uh one trigger pole one round that's my understanding there would there had have been more well on an assault rifle trigger pull round trigger pull round bolt action non- assault rifle what's the difference is it faster slower he was able to get more rounds off more quickly than he would have with other kinds of weapons and that's my point is that we can add additional resources to protect political candidates and we should the people who went to that rally deserved to be protected from gun violence just like the students at Parkland deserve to be protected from gun violence just like the babies at Sandy Hook deserve to be protected from gun violence so we'll devote devote more resources we've added a presidential candidate who is also now protected but if we're being honest with ourselves we have armed this country to the teeth and we have allowed the most dangerous people to have access to the most dangerous weapons I say that as a parent of a seven-year-old and a 5-year-old and a 2-year-old the two oldest who have done multiple Mass shooter drills in their classrooms I say that as a brother to two police officers who walk a very violent beat and I say that as an elected official who believes that my colleagues deserve to be as safe as I deserve to be when we are at political rallies and so we really need to step back and think if we allow these weapons to be in our country can we truly protect our elected officials and can we truly protect most importantly our children in the Next Generation Now yield back gentlemen yields back it is good to have Mr Massie back with us today some of us had a chance to go to Kentucky over the last few weeks and visit with Thomas and his family and hear all kinds of wonderful stories about Ronda amazing amazing lady U Gentle Spirit and U we're glad to have Mr Massie back with us and the next five minutes Belong To You Congressman thank you chairman um director Ray how many counter snipers were present at the rally that day and which of the counter snipers took the shot that took out the wouldbe Assassin uh I don't I don't have the number of counter snipers I know it was a secret service counter sniper who who took the uh the shot that uh eliminated the shooter um we've conducted a number of interviews including of of him so not was it one of the two that we see in the videos on top of the roof or was it a different location that I'm afraid I don't have that at my fingertips here okay you mentioned that U the wouldbe Assassin bought a 5- foot ladder you have a credit card evidence of that but it looks like on the scene there was a larger ladder that he might have used do you know which ladder he used to get to the roof and do you have possession of that 5 foot ladder and the other ladder and do you know how the taller ladder got to the scene so this whole business about the ladder is something we're drilling into more um uh we do have possession uh of the uh the 5ft ladder that he purchased um close in time to his attempted assassination uh that we traced the purchase of that ladder from a receipt a bloodied receipt uh that he had on him at the time his body was recovered on the roof um uh we do not yet know for sure how exactly he got up on the roof we're looking at you know various forensic pieces to try to kind of piece that together so more to come do um do you know where the 5 foot ladder was found or retrieved was near the roof or was it in still in his vehicle uh neither um I I I don't have it in front of me but I know that it was not uh I know that it was not on scene and I know that it was not in his vehicle uh but I can we can Circle back to you and get that um is there any evidence at all that he may have been in contact with somebody else before this occurred that may have had any prior knowledge or may have helped him plan this event well needless to say that that is a question that we're intensely focused on because that would obviously be incredibly meaningful so far underline so far we have not found any evidence uh of any accomplice or co-conspirators foreign or domestic and you're using geolocation data to see if his cell phone was near another cell phone I presume right we're doing lots of different kinds of cellular analysis uh geolocation stuff looking at his accounts uh he he from everything we've seen um which is consistent with what we've learned in interviews you know a lot of people describe him as a loner that does kind of fit with what we're seeing in his devices you know his his list of contacts for example uh is very short you know compared to what you would normally see from from most people so it doesn't appear to be a whole lot of interaction between him uh you know face to face or digital with a lot of people okay thank you that doesn't mean there's not any and that's why we're drilling into we're trying to talk to anybody who's had any engagement with him whatsoever digital you know in person classmates co-workers right ETA appreciate that and now I want to talk about another possible assassination attempt and I'll start by showing a video of President Biden and this is from Recently this is in the last month if that we can play that Gallows to hang the vice president Mike Pence I think it's fair to say it's one of the darkest days in the history of America okay and he's he's referring to January 6 were there Gallows erected to hang Mike Pence as the President says here uh I'm not aware of any physical Gallows I can't remember whether from a demonstration perspective there may not have been some um um kind of replica or or symbol of something like that that's that's my impression can we show U can you raise that up so you can see it it looks like there there was some kind of prop that was built the the construction doesn't look like it lends itself to actually hanging somebody it's more of a prop I think as you suggested that was erected on January 6th uh but if the president were correct that the these Gallows were erected to hang Mike Pence that would be a very serious ious allegation wouldn't it I would take it very seriously yes is has anybody been arrested or do you have any leads in conjunction with the erection of this um Galls we had a picture here on the screen if you can show it uh again it was just up there there was there's an individual here who's seen on near this these Gallows has he been arrested have you identified this person you know I don't I don't know that I can speak to this specific person or or the uh The Gallows that are pictured on the image you know we have had I think 850 people who have pled guilty uh to federal crimes uh related to January 6th and I think uh you know another 180 I think it is convicted uh at trials um so I just I can't be sure and some of them merely for going into the capital but here the president suggests that individual intended to hang vice president Pence uh which is seems like kind of a wild claim myself given the construction of those Gallows but if we are to take him seriously or even if we aren't we're let me just finish by saying this if you have no leads or you're not sure if anybody who erected those Gallows was arrested or is being investigated uh you know were there any confidential human uh sources involved from the FBI or any any other agency in the erection of that prop those Gallows I'm not aware of anything like that all right thank you I yield back gentleman Yi's back uh General lady from Washington is recognized thank you Mr chairman welcome director Ray political violence of any kind is dangerous unlawful and totally unacceptable just as we all watched and then unequivocally condemned the attempted assassination attempt on our former president I wish that we could all come together to equivocally condemn the act of political violence on January 6th instead of Defending props that were used that were harmful dangerous props of gallows attempting to show what people wanted to do to vice president Pence extremists attempted to subvert our democracy and the worst assault on the US capital since the War of 1812 many of us were trapped in the gallery that day we feared we would not make it out insurrectionists were chasing down former speaker Nancy Pelosi and then vice president Mike Pence and I myself have been the direct Target of political violence when an armed man with a gun showed up at my door threatened me and my family and we actually ended up having to move our home so I understand the increased tenor of political violence that is racking our country it has been on the rise fermented by violent and dehumanizing rhetoric from top public officials including the former president and members of Congress sadly and bolstered by the proliferation of easily accessible guns including assault style weapons all of this violence is unacceptable and I wholeheartedly condemn it I just hope we condemn all of the violence not just one or two incidents Mr Ray today I want to focus on the role of the FBI and the need for the bureau to remain politically neutral and independent the FBI cannot and should not be subject to the whims of any president the majority apparently doesn't think that the FBI needs to be politically neutral and independent they want an FBI subordinate to the president not accountable to the American people that is one part of a larger plan to undermine our democracy to remove the checks and balances that have protected us and ultimately to subvert our freedoms that agenda promulgated by the former president his loyal and their Mega allies is called project 2025 it is publicly available online I encourage everyone who's watching this to Google it it includes plans to undermine every part of our government including the FBI Trump's project 2025 agenda says that the director of the FBI must not be independent of politics but instead must do whatever the president orders under Trump's project 2025 Trump loyalist would undermine the non-political and independent structure of the FBI project 2025 openly calls on the next conservative Administration to support quote a vast expansion of the number of political appointees in every office across the doj especially the FBI and so Mr Ray given your extensive experience as a law enforcement professional at doj across multiple Republican and Democratic administrations why do you think it's important that the FBI maintain political independence from the president I think the FBI is and needs to stay independent and that means protecting American people without fear or favor upholding the Constitution and the rule of law and it means following the facts wherever they lead no matter who likes it and I add that last part because the essence of Independence and objectivity is not that an investigation is going to always yield the result you want our independence and objectivity can't only be respected when you like the outcome that's the very essence of objectivity sometimes you're going to like the result sometimes you're not going to like the result that applies to everyone including us any number of times we're disappointed and frustrated by the results of our investigations but the alternative is an erosion of the rule of law where the only thing that distinguishes uh one investigation for another is power and that's what you see in some of authoritarian countries around the world so I'm not familiar with this particular no I I I didn't ask you to project5 thing I don't know anything about it but I what I can tell you is from my perspective the FBI needs to be uh functioning as independent doesn't mean it's not part of the executive branch it doesn't mean the FBI director doesn't serve at the pleasure of the president but it does mean that the way we do our work has to be OB has to be in yeah thank you I have I have another question about the role of Attorneys at the FBI office of general counsel um how do we protect that work I'm sorry could you repeat the question the role uh what role do the attorneys at the FBI office of General council plan ensuring that the bureau respects the constitutional rights of American citizens how do we protect that work so uh the in my experience the lawyers in the office of general counsel uh play an incredibly important role in ensuring that our agents have their questions uh about how to comply with the law and conducting their work answered uh and ensuring that we conduct our work in the right way which means scrupulously adhering to the laws and the rules that apply to us I just wanted to say before I yield Mr chairman that the the project 2025 also eliminates the FBI's office of general counsel in-house lawyers who are responsible for that role I appreciate your Indulgence and I yield back gent lady yields back gentlemen from Wisconsin recogn yeah thank you Mr chairman uh I think it was when you were here December of last year um Mr Ray that uh you said blinking lights were going off in regards to the southern border and what is happening down there um has the Border situation improved in terms of your assessment with the security of Americans since you were last here in December well I guess a couple things and I appreciate appreciate the question so first the the blinking L lights comment that I made uh refers more broadly to the threat environment that I'm seeing as FBI director across the wide range of threats contributing to that in a variety of ways are the threats that emanate from the border so it's not not a comment just on the border issues it's it's the threat environment that we face more broadly in my experience in law enforcement um I am increasingly concerned that uh foreign terrorists could seek to exploit vulnerabilities uh at our Southwest border or at other ports of Entry or other aspects of our immigration system uh to facilitate an attack here in the United States I think that is something we have to be concerned about there's been a lot of focus on numbers numbers of this numbers of that and I understand that but uh as I think was referenced in an earlier question it doesn't take very many foreign terrorists to be a real problem we had 19 hijackers responsible for the 911 attacks uh and we just not that long long ago had a case some of the members of the committee will remember where we charged an individual for trying to smuggle individuals in to uh assassinate former President Bush are are you concerned that um the border of Patrol Chief former border patrol Chief Rodney Scott said that he was very he was concerned about very very minuscule data that they're receiving so there's all this um we are told that um illegal aliens are vetted against databases but oftentimes they're doing Biometrics as they come into this country but not looking behind it in their home countries does that concern you when there's not a review done in the Home Country well we certainly need as much help as we can get from the countries of origin uh these people when I say origin not just where they come from originally but countries they've come through and the biometric enrollment piece uh is of course an important one we have situations where even if are we doing a thorough enough job of reviewing them their actions and their lives in their home countries before they came here well I mean we need more help uh from our foreign Partners uh there's no question about that uh and I think that's an important part of our domestic Partners like the CIA and others that are supposed to protect us so uh there's been a lot of discussion uh of course over the last several years about the uh the pivot to what it's called the hard targets right the understandable Focus which I support uh of of focusing on the threat posed by China and Russia and Iran uh but with that comes if you look at for example the withdrawal from Afghanistan you we start to lose sources of information about foreign terrorist threats from overseas and that is that is a concern to me yeah my time's running out um has vice president Harris met with you in regards to the Border well I've been in meetings uh with that have included the vice president pres uh that have in different ways touched on Bo she specifically asked you for a meeting in regards to um the threat that is at the border you know I'm not going to get into sort of specific meetings but I can tell you that I've been in meetings that have included among other people the vice president that touch on border security issues did she ask you questions about what you thought needed to be done in regards to reducing this threat to the American people you know I I really can't get into specific conversations is support for president Trump a security concern within the FBI I'm sorry I couldn't hear it is support for president Trump a security concern amongst your employees no is objection to the covid-19 vaccine a security threat not from my perspective um who improved the what is termed the Trump questionnaire within the FBI that was done by siis Dena Perkins Jeffrey ventry were behind it who was responsible for that and did you know that there was a trump questionnaire out there so the document you're asking about uh is an interview outline that we only recently learned about and that my view is completely inappropriate I asked my team to get to the bottom of what happened and to ensure it doesn't happen again and I've learned that it's not an FBI form that its use was isolated that it was created not by an FBI employee but by an outside contractor and that individual is no longer affiliated with the FBI we are sending what we have found to the office of Inspector General to and we'll cooperate of course with anything they Mr chairman I'll just close with this um we keep hearing about these isolated examples whether it's Richmond Catholics this instance when is it isn't it a pattern I yield back G you back Mr CA thank you Mr chairman and uh director welcome again to this committee and I want to thank you and your agents for good job you're doing to protect Americans um earlier this week I was part of the group that went out to visit Butler Pennsylvania Homeland Security members um I agree with my colleagues that have said violence has no part in our democracy and I trust you will investigate the events surrounding July 13th early I'm going to ask you a question and um hope you keep it in mind as your investigation proceeds which is who's in charge who's in charge at a campaign rally setting it up secret service or a campaign and I asked this question because when I was there had a couple of law enforcement individuals alluding to that question as well they gave me an example they said um if a secret service says you need to set up a line of dump trucks behind the stage to serve to protect the candidate and the campaign says that's bad Optics who ends up winning the debate so my question is who's in charge and as you investigate this crime scene hope you ask the locally elected officials I spoke to a County supervisor local police and Sheriff they all had information they wanted us to know to relay we just didn't have the opportunity to sit down and talk to them um there was a lot of concern that they weren't given enough time to prepare for this rally they thought they were things that could have been done better and ultimately what I keep thinking what I keep coming back to is question who is in char charge at these rallies I think it's an important one because we have an election right around the corner Pennsylvania Butler these areas Battleground states around the country will continue to be areas where our candidates both sides will show up and the threats will continue to be there so I hope director a that you'll keep that statement in mind as you continue to investigate this crime scene well I I appreciate the question uh I will tell you that we've conducted well over 400 interviews but we have many more still to conduct uh and as is Not Unusual an investigation I'm sure there will be situations where we have to go back to people we've already interviewed with follow-up questions um and our interviews cover a wide range of people I do think it's important to make sure uh that the committee and and the American people understand uh the scope of our investigation versus the scope of others our inv investigation is focused on the shooter and his attack uh there is of course uh and I understand completely why uh two separate there are two separate reviews one by the DHS Inspector General and the other by this outside independent panel that's been announced that are focused on the security posture the adequacy of the security posture at the rally Secret Service decision making and actions and things like that and so I certainly understand why there are all those question questions um but those are those are in scope of those two other reviews and of course whatever you know Congress uh chooses to do our investigation though because of our interviews of people who are on the scene will relate to that in some ways and we're going to share whatever we learn that's relevant with those other reviews director a my last minute that I have I'm going to flip quickly to your good job resources earlier this year in the Appropriations Committee you test ified that you were for 2024 your budget was 500 million below what you needed to sustain your 2023 efforts few minutes ago you talked about foreign terrorists the last few weeks I know information has emerged that information came from fisa information that was able to be collected overseas on these possible terrorist threats what we have here today today is a domestic terrorist what looks to be a lone wolf your statements there's nothing really there that would have tipped anybody off to this individual is that what I'm hearing from you well I I don't know that i' go quite that far because we're still investigating uh a lot related to the shooter it does appear so far that we're seeing Less in his my six seconds I would just say I would ask that you let us know what resources you need to protect the American public and our candidates in our democratic system I I would I appreciate the question I would just say this we are in as I've said consistently today and for quite some time now we are in an elevated threat environment covering a wide range of threats and the FBI is Central to protecting American people from those threats and state and local law enforcement who depend on us every day uh r on us for all sorts of services databases forensic support training I could go on and on and on and a lot of those departments unlike the FBI have had a hard time recruiting and so this is not a time to pull back on our funding because we're going to leave our brothers and sisters in state local law enforcement twisting in the wind and and then by extension the American people were all collectively sworn to protect thank you and Mr chair I yield Jan yield is back gentleman from Texas recognized thank you chair thank you director Ray for being here um when did you last speak with President Biden I don't have the exact date but it's been certainly since the uh you know since the shooting so you have spoken to the president since the assassination attempt on President Trump's life yes sir and what was the mental state of the president we had a perfectly professional conversation um and are you uh do you have any scheduled briefings of the president uh upcoming uh not at the moment specifically scheduled no um in 2016 and 2015 top FBI officials uh infamously texted about quote their insurance policy to make sure Trump was never elected or inaugurated as president have any FBI agents texted emailed or expressed disappointment that Trump survived the assassination assassination attempt or otherwise editorialized about the assassination attempt uh I don't know about any agents uh there have been uh at least two instances I think or one instance of an individual uh who posted something uh that I consider outrageous and totally inappropriate um and unacceptable and that individual has been referred to our Inspection Division which is the arm our sort of internal affairs investigatory arm that that does the disciplinary process okay will you report back to this committee any other incidents I'll do my best to to share information with the commit uh you testified earlier that the FBI maintains high standards irrespective of of so-called diversity efforts um is it true that in December of 2016 former director Comey lowered the passing standards for phase one uh allowing an influx of previously unqualified applicants to continue in the hiring process who normally would have been stopped back in December of 2016 yeah I can't I can't speak to director comey's um were the changes I can tell you that that at least since I've been director changes that we have made to uh we're standing on a specific question we're standards change phase one this a specific part of the process were they changed in 2016 well I don't recall if they were changed in 2016 obviously I started as your question presupposes after that what I can tell you is since that time we have made changes to various phases of the process but none of them this is important none of them lowered the standards in fact if anything they actually increased are you are you familiar with reporting that we have and we've asked questions to you about this I'm not sure the result of the questions that a more to more quote easily accommodate a larger pool of available applicants FBI special agent hiring standards have been relaxed and requirements measurably lowered this according to a group of former agents who have testified about this and written a report and submitted it to Congress in addition specifically uh minority uh people with 20-year careers one in particular minority served for more than 20 years uh wrote in this report and submitted to Congress saying that these standards were in fact lowered and that in fact if you were hiring you were moved off of hiring if you put quality above these kinds of Dei requirements do you reject this report and do you have comments on this report I haven't read aware of the I'm aware of the report I know that I've read every detail of it but I can tell you that the claim that we have lowered our standards to be less selective and less competitive is not accurate so so do you believe these former agents are lying to Congress when they submit a report to Congress stipulating and suggesting otherwise are you saying that they are lying I'm saying they're mistaken okay but they're affirmatively on the record they're telling us and submitting a report to Congress saying saying that those facts are directly in contradicting what you're testifying here today so just want to be clear so we know we're saying that they are submitting uh evidence to our record to the contrary that you say is untruthful I I encounter all the time when I when I travel around the country and have conversations with our agents and I one of the things I try to do is have meetings with some of the longer serving agents without executive man my only question and my point here's the implication is untruthful so I I need move I got one minute left are you familiar with the case of paulet harlo she's a 75-year-old elderly woman from Massachusetts with a debilitating medical condition um she was prosecuted for violating the face act and sentenced to two years in prison she has to go to Texas in two weeks she was praying at an abortion clinic in Washington DC the FBI interrogated investigated her do you think it is appropriate for a 75-year-old woman who is praying at a clinic in DC to be put in prison for two years for that activity just a simple question do you think that's appropriate I'm not familiar with the specific case you're not familiar with that case it's been significantly in the headlines but so but you don't know how to comment on that case that it's appropriate for 75-year-old woman to be put in prison for two years for praying at a clinic again I'm not going since I'm not familiar with the case I don't want to start weighing in because I don't know all the facts but what I can tell you is that when it comes to face act enforcement and abortion related violent extremism I think one of the things that gets lost and I appreciate the opportunity to clarify it is that really uh since the do's decision actually more of our abortion related violent extremism investigations have focused on violence against pro-life facilities as opposed to the other way around and we've had a number of investigates we're using faac resources and our jttfs we're still waiting on responses on letters that we've sent uh indicating the data to the contrary there's been significant amount of efforts in targeting of people who are pro- lifers who go to clinics and that they've been prosecuted like this case a 75y old woman who is now going to jail in Texas for two years because she was praying at a clinic in Washington DC and we've submitted uh questions on that and i' I'd appreciate a response on it you back gentlemen y's back G from Pennsylvania's recogniz thank you so much and thank you director Ray for being here and for the work uh that your team does as well as for sharing the information that you've been able to today um you just got a couple questions about um that seem to imply that there was some problem with um the FBI's diversity efforts and certainly the 1950s version of the FBI was singularly um Caucasian male agents Etc um is the FBI a better Force for having a diverse range of uh employees and agents I think diversity makes us better but like everything else it has to be done the right way I think we can have a more diverse Workforce and do it without lowering our standards and that's in my view what we've done and and you haven't lowered standards at the FBI we have not I repeatedly come across people who are confused about different parts of that and I appreciate the opportunity to set that straight thank you yeah I think we're all concerned here as we've seen the roll out of this project 2025 that purports to try to eliminate any reference to um diversity efforts across the entire federal government so it is sort of a top of Mind concern as it's uh threatening to become reality so what I did want to talk about today is something some of my colleagues have mentioned which is the normalization of threats and violence against public servant at all levels whether it's election workers or school officials elected officials in their families judges federal law enforcement agents and others to be clear um I think it's very clear that the majority of Americans wholeheartedly condemn any sort of political violence and understand that it's not legitimate uh discourse and that it has no place in our our Civic life but words do matter and they have consequences particularly when uttered by people in positions of leadership so that's why I I remain very concerned by the willingness of some members of Congress to repeat disinformation and conspiracy theories that undermine trust in our public institutions which serve all Americans and when elected officials Embrace overheated or fact-free rhetoric it becomes dangerous um I have been heartened as many national leaders have equivocally condemned calls to violence and I would urge all members of this body uh to do so and continue to do so regardless of the party affiliation of the perpetrators or the targets of such threats um you and our other National Security officials have repeatedly warned us that foreign actors are actively working to spread disinformation to influence our elections and discredit our public Institutions and we shouldn't be aiding and edting them um so to live in a country that we aspire to where our most valued Democratic processes like free and fair elections can be carried out in unimpeded and people can run for office serve their communities and exercise their right to vote without fear of violence um we've had some concerns about violence around our elections in 2020 the endorsement and promulgation of falsehoods about the election result by the former president and and his campaign led to threats and attacks against election officials and poll workers in Pennsylvania and those falsehoods also wasted millions of taxpayer dollars on frivolous lawsuits and extraordinary security costs so as we're again approaching November we want to ensure that those who Implement and defend our elections our neighbors and our nonpartisan civil servants can do that important work free from conspiracy theories and threats so we know our local law enforcement across Pennsylvania are are preparing for some disruption and threats um because while Pennsylvania may be a Battleground state in the upcoming election that battle should obviously be a war of words over policy and the vision we're charting for our country's future not an actual Civil War so how is the FBI working with state and local law enforcement to prevent and respond to election related violence particularly against election workers so in a variety of ways we're partnering with state and local law enforcement obviously the uh physical security in the first instance uh in most of the respects you're talking about is in the is in the ordinary course the responsibility of state and local law enforcement but uh we play an important role in a number of ways so we share you know threat bulletins information like that about things to be on the lookout for things we're seeing uh if we ever have specific threat information then we work to get it to the right people we have election crime coordinators which we've had for decades uh in all 56 field offices who have existing relationship with not just State local law enforcement but election officials uh especially focus on on security and threat related uh issues uh and then of course we're participating in the election threats task force uh that doj set up which is focused on threats of violence or actual violence against election workers specifically and we've had a number of arrests and and even some convictions already on that thank you for your input I yield back G yields back director uh it's my intention to go approximately another half an hour um then we will we break for the prime minister of Israel's address to the Congress U on on the floor give you a chance for lunch and then then resume after that but we'll we'll keep pushing through for the next half hour if we can General lady from Indiana is recognized thank you Mr chairman uh thank you director Ray uh I think you have a little bit better tone in conversation so I appreciate it you know and answer some questions so I appreciate it hopefully you'll answer also in two letters that I sent you over a year ago one related to Durham report and the other one related to Russian infiltrated sbu that collaborated with FBI so hopefully we'll get his answers and hopefully we'll St doing authorization don't you think doing authorization would help us to get better answers Congress should be probably working authorizing new agency don't you agree with that uh we work very hard to try to get information to this committee and to other committees but authorizing spending probably would be a good thing for us to do don't you agree oh I'm sorry authorizing what our spending not just doing appropriating but actually doing authorization of spendings for this committee yes okay thank you we might said doing that uh but um we can talk about and a lot of uh my colleagues on other side you know AR-15 gets a lot of bad rap you know like to bring it up this issue but really there are a lot of hunting rifles that probably make maybe even more accurate than a lot of ARs and don't you AG we have like Millions right don't you agree we have millions of rifles owned by law biding Americans so do you you know do you think we should be taking them millions of rifles from law biding Americans what do you think about that would that be something feasible and really we should be doing that well again I I'm not going to be addressing anybody's specific legislative proposal uh from our perspective from the FBI's perspective the concern is any dangerous weapon in the hands in the wrong hands but all weapons the wrong person but all weapons are dangerous right I'm sorry all weapons are dangerous knives are dangerous you explosive there are a lot of weapons are by their very we going to be confiscating you know hunting rifles and rifles for millions of Americans do you think it's even feasible to do something like that from low biding citizens it's not something I'm advocating okay well thank you I appreciate that so we have to go back that was a catastrophic failure of security that what happened you know recently was attempted assassination don't you agree with that well I I think uh former director cheel has already publicly acknowledged uh that it was I think her words were a significant operational failure then we had you know similar situation a different you know talking about bad Optics speak Pelosi at that time didn't want to have bad Optics on January 6 and we didn't have proper security here in January 6th that was a catastrophic failure too we looking at that anyone conclusion was made from that have we Mak any adjustments because not a lot of people you know got hurt now just being here it was a lot of cases burning out Department of Justice and there were a lot of them were really just low Biden Americans that really just upset with the government and they have a reason to do it so I think we need to think about it before we prosecute or instead of actually you know looking how we can deal with real criminals and how we can have a proper security when we have events with so many people there so did you uh did you have confidential human sources I think you never answered that question on January 6 in the capital did you have some I'm sorry what's what's confid confidential human sources did you have them on January 6th in the capital again I I'm never going to be getting into when and where we have or have not or have not used confidential human sources but are you will understand the record that you had you know you had no confidential human sources that went into capital in January 6 as I've said consistently I'm not going to get into where we have or have not used confidential human sources I can tell you that if you are asking if the violence at the capital on January 6th was part of some operation orchestrated by FBI sources or agents the answer is no no I that I asked so did you investigate if you any confidential human sources did you do any investigation and looking at that so you're not answering if you had any or not so if you had potentially did you do anything you needed to make sure to investigate that none of your sources did anything wrong if they did wrong they they were prosecuted the same way like you're trying to prosecute a lot of people that really even cons in Supreme Court rulle recently that some some unconstitutional charges let me just add that there have now been I think 180 individuals who've gone to trial in addition to the 850 who who've pled guilty right but I think the problem is you put discharges a lot of people would put guilty but let me say just quickly because I only have 10 seconds really so I hope you will take seriously what you're doing you know related to the border security is also a crisis you know have your vice president was a leading on that has she actually she initiated meetings with you to lead like weekly or monthly meeting where she actually get briefing from you as a leading bordar that had that function have you had that have she initiated any meetings on the regular basis with you again gent time has expired the gentleman can can respond right I I on this issue of confidential human sources number one I will say there is an A doj oig in uh review that's under underway that I think addresses some of these kinds of topics uh I believe but I won't speak for the Inspector General uh second as to this suggestion which I've heard uh all too many times that somehow January 6 was orchestrated by FBI agents or human or sources uh I will note that in addition to my prior comments that there have now been 850 is uh individuals whove plad guilty and other 180 who've gone to trial they've all had access to defense Council Discovery all the things the Constitution and the rules provide them it's been in front of something like 15 different judges I think dozens of jurries and not one has given Credence to this notion and in fact I don't think any of them have even really seriously tried to raise it so it's not just my word for it look what's happening in the cases thank you uh gentleman from Colorado is recognized for five minutes thank you thank you Mr chairman thank you director Ray for being here for your testimony today for the work that you do each and every day and that your Frontline agents across the country do each and every day to protect Americans to keep our country safe also grateful for the work that you're doing in investigating uh the horrific events of July 13th and the attempted assassination of former president Trump which everyone must and and has condemned uh I would first just ask do you believe that the FBI has the adequate resources to ultimately ensure uh that your agency gets to the bottom of it and fully investigates uh this terrible crime well we are devot voting uh massive amounts of resources to this specific investigation um we have easily several hundred uh FBI agents analysts and professional staff uh working on it it is involves over half of the FBI's 56 field offices almost every headquarters division we even have uh some of our overseas offices working on you might say well why is that well because some of the companies uh that that uh involve accounts or purchases or Communications or what have you that the shooter used are foreign companies so we have to get evidence from overseas from those companies uh I've talked about our lab a little bit earlier today we've got our office of Technology division working on the digital devices we have our behavioral analysis unit our ba working on helping us build out a profile the shooter I could go on and on and on so it's all hands- on deck on this case as I think is appropriate now when you ask about our res ources uh I've been public about the fact that the fiscal year 24 budget put US $500 million below where we needed to be to sustain current operations and the on fy2 the current house mark would put us significantly further back behind that and would result in significant risks across every program and our support to State and local law enforcement uh we arrested something like 5050 vent criminals per day every day last year the current mark would mean more violent criminals on the street more neighborhoods at risk we have about a 1300% increase in our investigations related to China and it's targeting of us and I can assure you China is not cutting its budget this would mean more threats from China we have something like 300 to 400 investigations just into cartel leadership uh and about hardly a week goes by when some FBI field office isn't seizing enough fenel to wipe out an entire State those that Mark that those cuts means more fental on the street more people dying uh so the people who suffer the most are State local law enforcement and the American people were sworn to protect and so look forward to working with Congress but we we really need to be uh smart about what we're doing and I think that would be a step in the wrong direction given the threat environment that we fac and I couldn't agree with you more director Ray and of course we've talked about this uh during previous uh hearings in which you've testified and to be clear that I think the budget that House Republicans have proposed which is about a $325 million cut to the FBI would do precisely what you've described and have dorus impacts uh for Public Safety across our country and uh you house Democrats are certainly working to prevent those cuts from taking place you've talked at Great length about the events of July 13 there's justifiably a lot of public interest uh in the investigation which we understand is ongoing wonder if you might if there's anything that you'd like to disclose or provide to the committee or to the public um that perhaps has not yet been gleaned during the course of this hearing and just give you an opportunity because there's a lot of folks related to the investigation yeah one thing I can give an update on um which is pretty fresh here uh we had some conversations with some of the members uh about the access to the the roof and the ladder and so forth uh and our evidence response teams uh and their forensic collection uh We've now believ that the subject climbed onto the roof using some mechanical equipment on the ground and vertical piping on the side of the AGR building uh in other words we do not believe he used a ladder to get up there uh one question if the chairman might indulge me with just a few e extra seconds there's an article recently uh regarding several former Trump Administration National Security officials who had received a duty to warn briefing from the FBI regarding the Potential Threat from Iran and I think there is this article made clear deep concern these individuals have justifiably so about the Threat Level and particularly given the events of the last several months and the need for there to be an increased security posture and security Personnel for for former officials who may very well still be at risk and I don't know if you're familiar with that article I'm try not to use names here but I think uh would perhaps follow up with your agency and with the Department of Justice more broadly to ensure that any individuals who are potentially facing a threat from Iran or another hostile actor foreign Nation have the resources they need to have uh the the security available to them so again without reference to any specific individual um I want to be very clear about this because I've I've tried to be vocal on this but it sometimes doesn't um get noticed as much which is that in my view the Iranian government has been extremely aggressive and Brazen uh we have seen in the last few years an attempt I'm speaking just from public information now an attempt to assassinate a former US National Security advisor on us soil we have seen an attempt first to kidnap and then to try to murder an American dissonant slj journalist who a Critic of the Iranian regime right smack in the middle in New York City we have seen uh a Cyber attack against a Children's Hospital in New England that ties back to Iran we have seen uh as I've testified before as director ratliffe and I announced an effort by the Iranians to Target the 2020 presidential election uh and that's all before you even get to the fact that the Iranian government is the leading State sponsor of terrorism so if that's not enough to convince people that Iran is a threat I don't know what is but director was there a distinction between what the gentleman from Colorado raised and what you just said this General concern in these these specific uh instance you talk about and a direct specific threat on President Trump that's distinct from what you've been describing as this General concern with Iran well again I I can't get into specific pieces of and if so when if it was a distinct threat on President Trump when did that when did that take place yeah I I all I can tell you uh certainly in this kind of setting is um targeting of us officials for the uh solomani strike is something that is a reality that the Iranian government has at times called for very publicly uh and there whenever there is reporting let me try to answer your question this way Whenever there is reporting uh about any of those protectees uh we share the information in a variety of ways working with the intelligence Community working with whoever is the protective service with responsibility for that individual and we do it in a timely way using the the duty to Warrant process that was just referred to uh and to my knowledge everything along those lines uh that's relevant was shared in a timely way with the relevant people thank you gentleman from Wisconsin is recognized director Ray thanks for being here um where where were you when you heard that President Trump was shot and then what were like your immediate actions response to that as director I was uh about to have dinner with family um and I was horrified and angry I'm just thinking the the reason I asked the question is because I'm thinking still trying to figure out kind of the lanes what the FBI would respond to and what the secret service has the responsibility to respond to can you just kind of cover that again sure so the FBI uh is not responsible for it's never really been part of our mandate or mission for the physical security of venues of specific protectees or anything like that that's if it's a if it's somebody within secret Services scope that's their mandate and Mission uh we are a law enforcement and intelligence agency and so if you think about it this way we're the Federal Bureau of Investigation we're not the Federal Bureau of security you might say well what's the difference well there is a difference uh we investigate crimes we investigate threats to National Security but we don't questions about security posture the adequacy of uh resources and assets that were deployed to protect a specific individual whether there's enough security and certainly the Staffing of that security security is not something the FBI uh again we're 116 years old has historically done so at this point um have you been able to go through the shooter's home and and kind of document kind of what what you found as far as evidence goes so we we have been able to search the shooters home so again just sort of tying your first question to your to your second question now you know our role is to conduct an investigation of the shooter and the attack and so we're going to conduct a painstaking intense investigation of that we have among other scenes that we've processed using evidence response teams uh in addition to the rally scene itself of course we have been through the individuals the shooters home uh his bedroom other parts of the house Etc have you been able to establish that he did go to a range and either zero that weapon in or you know at least target shoot that weapon prior to the assassination attempt so uh we do uh assess that he went to a shooting range the day not the only time he went to a shooting range he was a fairly um Avid might be a little strong but a fairly Avid uh you know shooting hobbyist uh and so he went to you know belonged to different sort of clubs and and went to certain ranges and that kind of thing we do uh believe based on what we've seen so far that he went to a shooting range uh the day before and then he shot uh uh an AR sty AR style rifle at that range the day before I I'm not sure we know for sure that it's this the weapon that he used but I think we assess that it probably is have you been able to uh interview his parents uh yes we have and was there anything that was gained from that interview that would lead you to believe that they certainly were aware of what was going on uh I would uh I guess I want to be careful I talking about specific people's interview but I would say that his parents were Cooperative with us and as I've said before and hopefully this gets at your question we have not identified any accomplice co-conspirators or anything along those lines um so it's the FBI's position right now that he still acted independently again we're still I know it seems like a lifetime since July 13th but we're still early stages but we have not seen anything so far that would suggest to us that he acted with others how does the FBI view not just a trump rally but political rallies versus other types of events uh you know from a security perspective uh compared to a college football game or any any Mass you know large crowd type Gathering because I can't I think the one of the things that's most difficult to really um to swallow at this point is that the the idea that these Trump rallies have been happening for years and that there there could be such a LAX approach to the physical security of those Fairgrounds that day and I'm wondering you know where does this fall and then on top of that that there were other presidential candidates out there that didn't have full Secret Service protection RFK Jr has been the most vocal about it I was wondering if you can comment on the on the facilities as well as providing security for presidential candidates well again I want to be a little bit careful to stay in my Lane because again security posture and the adequacy of the security posture uh is is really the core expertise and responsibility of agencies like the Secret Service but uh certainly it is I think fair to say that uh outdoor events whether they're political rallies or as you say you know a college football game in an open Stadium a concert uh these are places that are uh often you know particularly challenging to secure adequately uh because the range of threats that can face them are are higher uh in addition to that as been has been discussed a little bit here uh already in in today's hearing just threats to public officials including politicians uh is an increasingly uh pervasive part of today's landscape and so that adds to the challenge so you're talking about the combination of um uh individuals who are increasingly targeted for violence combined with uh venues that are softer and harder to secure uh targets I guess is the way I would answer but again th those kinds of questions the adequacy of the security posture uh all the resources that were or were not devote all that stuff is my understanding would be very much in scope for the uh DHS inspector General uh investigation and this outside independent panel that's been appointed y back gentle uh gentleman Yi's back uh director I think we're going to be able to get two more members uh times a question then we have to get to the floor for the for the Prime Minister J L from George is recognized thank you chair Johnson and thank you so much director director Ray for your transparency and your testimony today um first I want to say my friend and she was my friend before I even came to Congress and in my freshman year she kind of took me under her wing and she kind of showed me the ropes and she was a force to be reckoned with and I can say that she will never ever be replaced and she was a Trailblazer and I know that she will sorely be missed here in Congress uh director Ray I only have one question for you today but before we get to that point I just like to reiterate today that political violence is never acceptable regardless of how different our political values and Views are attempted assassinations are Asain to the very democratic ideals of this nation we have endured riots on Capitol Hill on January 6th where a literal noose was erected on Capitol grounds intended for then vice president Pence and speaker Emeritus Nancy Pelosi political vience violence against election workers that has been expressed today an attack on Paul Pelosi Nancy Pelosi's husband threats against the FBI agents as you have expressed and prosecutors and threats to the staff who serve the public every single day Congressman Connelly staff was targeted and attacked last year and now we have the attempted assassination of a former president of the United States all of this within just the last three years this violence simply needs to end the assassination attempt on Donald Trump was by the grace of God a failure the weapon the 20-year-old man was able to obtain in AR-15 generally has a shooting range up to 600 yards and shot Mr Trump from almost 150 yards away this weapon has the ability to kill multiple people in seconds and sadly Corey compur lost his life because of this man and because of this gun Mr cator's family will never be the same trust me I understand that more than anyone else in this room is the near loss of a former president enough for this Congress to finally take action because there are 206 of us that are already standing in the wings ready to take immediate action to ban assault weapons today we need only 12 more of our colleagues to join us encourage and move the legislation to save lives of so many of the people that we are elected to serve by removing assault weapons from the hands of people who simply should not have them in their possession we are crippling our democracy and we are ripping up part our fellow Americans until we do I ask today because it is clearly clearly wasn't enough to take action when The lethality of assult of assault weapons we lost 26 and seveny olds and six teachers in 2012 when I also lost my son to gun violence or 14 teenagers and three more teachers in 2018 nor was it enough when we lost 19 more children and two more teachers in 2022 well is it enough now now that a former president the very president and many of you in this room are hoping will be reelected almost lost his life because this Congress has failed to reinstate an assault weapons ban a ban that by the way Republicans joined with Democrats the past 30 years ago well fine yall don't like assault weapons ban we can bring another bill that I have introduced to a vote the go SAFE Act this bill focuses on the components of the semi-automatic automatic firearms and regulates their infrastructure sale and transfer this again is not the time for thoughts and prayers this is a Time for Action director Ry just one question I have for you would you rather have your officers protected or or protect someone against an assault weapon being shot from 147 yards away or standard pistol with no accessories attached well again I'm not I'm going to refrain from appearing to comment on specific legislative proposals but I can tell you that we have certainly concerned uh about the uh danger to law enforcement from high any kind of high-powered weapon in the wrong hand and it hits close to home for us uh because just not that long ago two great agents L schwarzenberger and Dan Alin down in Miami executing a search in crimes against children case were shot and killed by a subject with an automatic weapon so again dangerous weapons in the wrong hands uh is something that of course from a law enforcement perspective concerns us but I'm not going to wait into the legislative process well thank you for that answer I'd rather give our agents a fighting chance and I yield back gent lady yields back gentlemen from Oregon recognize thank you Mr chair and thank you director Ray for being here today so we spend three billion dollars a year excuse me on the Secret Service three billion and um that it would seem that we could and should have had a better job done uh a few weeks ago on the 13th than what we saw will you have anything to say about correcting what are the obvious deficiencies and what the Secret Service did well uh for the most part the the deficiencies or adequacy or inadequacy of secret Services performance uh decision making resources all that stuff is is in the purview of those two other investigations that is the DHS Inspector General and the outside independent panel that's been announced having said that our investigation which as I've testified now is involves several hundred FBI employ employees and every asset we can bring to bear of the shooter again our investigations of the shooter and his attack of course involves interviewing law enforcement including lots and lots and lots of Secret Service people so we'll share all that with those reviews so that they can answer those question the reason the reason I'm asking this is because this isn't the first time the secret service has been before Congress there was a 435 page report issued in 2015 by by Congress saying fix your yourself they didn't in fact there was a followup in 09 where they had only done a few of the I think it was 18 or 19 different specific things they were supposed to do they'd done some but certainly not all there was another followup in 2022 and again the Secret Service had not done what Congress had asked I guess my question to you uh Mr director is how what should Congress do we a 435 page report nine years ago and still the Secret Service isn't isn't didn't do what it was told to do then can you help director Rey because this this type of performance is is not is is not acceptable well as I again I think even former director cheel has acknowledged uh that this was a a significant operational failure if there are ways for the FBI to be helpful beyond what we're already doing in terms of our investigation We Stand ready to try to be helpful I I do want to say as somebody who's been in law enforcement for most of my career I've worked with some just phen phenomenal Secret Service agents going all the way back to my time as a line prosecutor and they they have an incredibly hard job and I have a lot of affection and respect for the men and women of the Secret Service I'm sure you do and I'm sure you're right but the trouble is when Congress says you need to do these 19 things and they don't something needs to change now the director has resigned but you're going to be in a position because your agency's doing such a careful review to to say a lot about what should have been done I guess the real issue is much more of what the higher-ups in that agency are or are not doing perhaps that's on us and we will share we will share with those reviews anything that we come across that could be helpful or relevant to them for those those question let me let me quick quickly go to some details on the actual events uh it appeared to a lot of us as the Secret Service was taking president former president Trump from the stage that he was clearly still in view of everybody and had there been another shooter I didn't see him being protected are you going to raise that issue I think that's really more in scope of these two other reviews uh let me go okay that's fine let me go to the the shooter as he was on top of the roof apparently another officer from another police division saw him and quickly duck down because the shooter aimed a gun at him um and then the shooter apparently was he prone at the time he took the shot toward the president so uh my understanding uh is that the local officer uh who they we're talking about with the assistance of another local officer was able to kind of get up and see onto the roof uh where he observed the shooter I believe in a prone shooting position uh the shooter then turned and faced him the local officer with the weapon from the prone position that's my understand and then he went back to the prone position and this is all seconds before the uh the shooter took his that time the shooter was in the scope site of of the counter sniper correct that one I'd have to double check on I know we've interviewed the counter sniper but I I'm not sure I know the the counter sniper didn't take a shot until after the Assassin attempted to shoot the former president and others he got off eight shots before the the the counter sniper shot the shooter what's with that protocol can you get that fixed well again I really want to be careful not to be uh given the scope of our investigation somehow second guessing the very difficult uh act decision it takes for a counter sniper to kill another human being in that situation it's all happening in seconds so eight shots and and and that was after he'd been seen for 20 minutes I yield back thank you um director um that's an important question though because You' you've talked to the counter sniper um and that I mentioned this in our opening statement that critical five minutes from 609 to 614 and what takes place there is critical and I think that's what the gentleman was getting at and we were hopeful that you could tell us something about your interview with the counter sniper yeah I I I guess I want to distinguish a couple things there's um there is some individual not law enforcement I believe who spotted the shooter on the roof a few minutes before uh but I I think law enforcement spotting him with the weapon on the roof is seconds before the shot that that's important there's two different things going what you're saying is it wasn't maybe that if this if the if this the bad guy shoots at 611 then you're saying this encounter with local law enforcement that Mr B was just getting into happened just seconds before that and maybe not two minutes before that that's my understanding that in other words that there's different things here there's IND idual at least one individual I can think of not law enforcement member of the public who observed him on the roof not clear to whether or not the individual saw a weapon or not but saw him in a way that was concerning that is some number of not many but like just a handful of minutes I think separate from that as far as law enforcement goes in terms of a weapon uh this this local officer that we just talked about uh observed the individual again literally just seconds before the individual the shooter took his shots separate apart from all of that uh you know roughly I think maybe a little less or around an hour before the shooting there were local law enforcement officers who observed the shooter not Up on the Roof not with a weapon but with a uh I believe a rangefinder kind of like you would use if you were playing golf or something uh in a way that was odd and suspicious so that started happening with local law enforcement beforehand but in terms of shooter meaning with the weapon uh law enforcement my understanding is that the first time that happened was this local officer Climbing Up on the Roof seconds before yeah we we we want that timeline I think the committee wants that timeline and Communications that were taking place in that in that short period of time again as I've said with everything else I really want to be careful I'm leaning in trying to share as much as I can here facts are evolving things may change but we are working on a timeline among other things committee will stand in recess until after the prime minister's remarks conclude committee will come to order to the gentle lady from North Carolina is recognized for five minutes uh thank you Mr chairman and thank you so much director Ray for being with us yet again as you know we've seen a disturbing rise in domestic terrorism and farri extremism across the United States and we've heard from you several times about this white supremacist and far rate extremist groups um continue to outpace all types of terrorism and de domestic violent extremism according to the National Institute of Justice report from this past January part of this dramatic rise in extremist violence and threats stems from malign foreign actors who are actively working to seow division in American democracy they're desperately trying to inflame extremists at with and deepen divides all to support far-right agendas and candidates that will erode our democracy the DHS threat assessment has warned we expect the 2024 election cycle will be a key event for possible violence and foreign influence targeting our election infrastructure processes and Personnel Microsoft has warned that the 2024 election may be the first presidential election during which multiple authoritarian actors simultaneously attempt to interfere with and influence election outcomes National Security officials and experts have warned that foreign governments mainly Russia China and Iran seek to destabilize the United States via its elections by sowing further division in the American electorate this is happening and happening in the current context of increased political violence in our country against a former president election workers judges members of Congress and their families and other public servants I cannot emphasize enough that this is a national security threat director Ray reports have found that these propaganda campaigns will sometimes Target Target racial groups why would countries like Russia China Iran seek to inflame racial tensions via social media well of course it may vary from adversary to adversary but the playbook for authoritarian regimes uh in today's world is to try to sew divisiveness and Discord to turn us against each other to capitalize on existing social tensions that they perceive and to try to uh in effect pour gasoline on the fire uh and intensify those conflicts that may already exist uh in our domestic you know political scene uh so rather than uh you know if you're a foreign adversary that means us no good uh rather than try to come up with some completely brand new issue or or Theory or narrative to turn us against each other you look for things where we're already at the very least quarreling with each other if not fighting with each other and then they try to capitalize on that and amp it up and of course that can then sometimes as we've seen all too tragically boil over or bubble over into outright violence and so um how has the FBI worked to combat this propaganda and infiltration on our social media networks so our focus is on the farm actor China Russia Iran uh and on their efforts and so we work with the intelligence Community we work with our foreign Partners our friendly foreign Partners to try to uncover what those countries Russia China Iran are up to uh and we try to share information about The Hidden Hand of the foreign actor uh where it's appropriate uh we also engage in efforts to disrupt those foreign actors uh the most most recent example uh with the Russians for example is a uh Russian government linked generative AI social media um bot Farm where they were posing as among others us persons and not in fact us persons and trying to again sew various narratives in that case very heavily focused on uh the issue they picked There Was You know the war in Ukraine and again trying to kind of get everybody uh turned against each other we've also seen that though from China and Iran I mentioned China before uh we've had a case where they we charged I think it was 34 Chinese Ministry of public security MPS officers for much of the same kind of behavior creating false personas pretending to be Americans and then trying to kind of sew narratives in that case in the Chinese case their narratives were trying to for example undermine any suggestion that Co was the product of a lab leak or attacking us law enforcement uh at the anniversary of George Floyd's death for example and then Iran uh in 2020 we saw them undertake similar kinds of efforts um that were disrupted in the in the I think October of 2020 thank you and I yield back gent yields back gentlemen from Virginia recogniz for five minutes director a thank you for being here and thank you for the information that you've provided today I greatly appreciate this event that occurred uh the attempted assassination of President Trump on on July 13th in Butler Pennsylvania was a a level five alarm alert to this country that um that our elected officials our leaders the president the U former president are not safe and we need to re-evaluate uh from the ground up exactly how we are to go about providing that protection um the information you Prov provided uh dealing with eight cartridges from the roof uh the Drone the fact that uh two explosive devices were found in the car one at home that was a remote detonation device that he had on him uh the fact that his phone was using encrypted platforms he only had one phone correct um sorry yeah he had one phone although we've identified other phones that he may have used that may not have been his phone so for example we think in certain instances he might have used his dad's phone again not necessarily related to the attack but we're trying to um we are trying to make sure that we process and exploit every device he could have used um and and we keep which is part of why I keep making this point which I know you all are probably tired of me making about this being an ongoing investigation because we keep identifying New pieces of equipment new accounts what have you and the fact that you are uh in real time informing us about what you're finding as your performing this investigation is very helpful and clarifying the fact that he went to the range a day before and shot an AR now my understanding is that the AR he used um on the 13th was his father's is that correct well yes and no it was originally his father bought it legally but then our understanding so far is that his father then uh conveyed it to him sold it in fact to his son uh so originally his father's at the time of the shooting the Shooters that's okay so that's new information was that provided to you by the father uh I think it was partly from that I think we also saw some documentation to support it okay um investigators also have said that the shooter posted quote July 13th will be my Premiere watch as it unfolds on an online gaming platform sometime before he tried to assassinate president Trump can you confirm that and how much time elapsed between this posting and the attempt on July 13th so I'm I'm really glad you asked about that because uh that um is a situation where again in our effort to give real-time information since we've provided that information we have since learned that that uh July 13th Premiere um you know profile page on the gaming platform it turns out it was not the shooter okay that it was some other individual as part of some sick joke who after the shooting created a profile page pretending to be the shooter wow um and so of course we've now that person is now admitted to it and you know we but a my point being among the other challenges that we as investigators have you have people who uh create accounts in today's world create accounts pretending to be somebody that they're you know and it's not the actual person um now the that's that's troubling obviously it makes our jobs even harder as investigators thank you for clarifying that did he have a an online gaming account we we do believe believe he was a gamer and then he had different kinds of um gaming accounts so that's part of why we yeah any information gleaned from those not yet but again some of those are some of those uh legal process returns I'm still waiting on now during the attempted assassination krooks was wearing a t-shirt from a popular YouTube channel um have you been able to access his uh selection of YouTube videos that he's watched uh I believe we have seen some of the some of his you know search history um but I think we've got a ways to go on that uh I know there's some manual work that we're doing on that I think the most notable thing uh that we've found uh recently uh which I I don't think has been shared until today is that on a laptop that we've that the investigation ties to him uh that on July 6th he it revealed a Google search uh and his search if it was him again it's a laptop tied to him we obviously believe it's him but we'll we'll continue to investigate his Google search was how far away was Oswald from Kennedy right um and horrifying yes absolutely um can you uh clarify that there that you have in your possession all the video that has that was taken on that day at the scene uh We've collected mountains of video uh part of the reason I to providing us with that video well we're going to work with the committee uh and share information as best we can part of the reason I hedged on whether we have it all is as the as you can appreciate in today's world uh everybody with a phone sure has the ability to take footage and so we're we're finding things kind of left and right do you have all the law enforcement video uh I believe we have all the law enforcement video but I we're still collecting evidence um okay and I hope you would provide that to us and to the American people thank you yield back gentan y back director just to be clear the the photo and the message on the online gaming count um I think your testimony was to Mr Klein that that was somebody else posing as the shooter is that right correct somebody after July 13th okay created this profile pretending to be the shooter and sent us down a rabbit Trail which we've now tied off that's important information gent lady from Pennsylania is recognized I thank you Mr chairman thank you director Ray for being here and I want to add my my voice uh to the chorus of folks who are just devastated by the illness and passing of Sheila Jackson Lee what a champion uh what a role model I always called her the hardest working member of Congress she was everywhere on every issue uh she'll be greatly missed um director Ray I I thank you for what you said earlier which is leaning in this is such an extraordinary set of events the attempted assassination of Donald Trump uh the stealing of the life of a father a firefighter something somebody who protected lives Corey uh comparator serious injuries to two others uh so I I thank you because you are trying to give us what you can without jeopardizing the investigation and I think that's very helpful um did the shooter also um investigate other high-profile folks we had heard some reporting around that early on well you say investigate other folks I think uh this is a place where we still have a lot more work to do part of what uh part of what we did find was a bunch of cached images of a variety of public figures um but again cached images are those images that you get when you like you pull up a news story from any number of news sites the if they're photographs in the article those images are automatically put into your the cache on your computer so it doesn't necessarily mean that you were searching for that person's image uh we do have um the fact that starting around uh at at the least around the period um early July so this the search that I just mentioned uh related to Oswald and Kennedy uh that's about July 6th which is the same day uh we believe that he uh registered for the the rally uh and the day before he traveled to the grounds for the first time and so I think there is a certain amount of searches related to former president Trump that during that period uh we're seeing um consistent with some kind of planning or reconnaissance if you want to call it that in advance of the rally but that's sort of confined to that or or concentrated maybe is a better word uh in in that July period you know after the announcement of the rally and before the shooting can you speak to the conveyance of the gun this is a 20-year-old young man his father owned the gun originally AR-15 am I correct uh AR sty yeah 15 um 20-year-old man when did the father sell the gun to him and what documents do you have how much money transpired what date was uh yeah I don't I don't I I do know that I say I know we believe based on what we've seen that his father uh after purchasing the gun legally sold the gun to his son I don't know that I have the date uh of that transfer or the amount of the transfer although we may be able to get that to as a follow I just don't have it in front of me do you know when the father bought it we know I don't as I'm sitting here testifying in front of you I don't have that in front of me so I don't have at my f I'm just wondering if it's approximate to this event uh I do not believe that the gun was purchased uh that is the gun that was used I do not believe it was purchased particularly close in time to the shooting um but how far in advance it may have been a year before give or take but again I we'll go back and and double check that on you I do know that uh on the um the day of the shooting uh at about 1:30 p.m he bought 50 rounds of ammunition so uh if you think about the day of uh or if you back up a little bit so the day before he goes to the shooting range the day of he goes to the grounds uh the morning of the event for I think around an hour uh he buys the ammunition at around 130 uh at around 350 is when he's back on the grounds uh of the rally and that's when he used uh the Drone that I've talked about already today and then of course um f forward till just after 6 o' when uh the worst happened and we had thought uh maybe over the weekend there was a conversation around a classified briefing for members I hope that will happen uh as soon as it's feasible uh for you and for the other uh agencies involved uh and he he got off eight shots and the reporting is that that was in under six seconds seconds he got off eight shots uh fatal uh to one my question that I'll leave you with and I know I'm over time Mr chairman is we all decry political violence we decry any violence but we decry the rise in political violence what can you tell us that we could do better what can what do you need uh for you to be able to help this country reduce the political violence tendencies I think this is a moment uh where in the most Stark way possible all of us as Americans uh can see uh how out of control political violence is in this country and it's an opportunity for everybody to come together um and to try to show that this is not the kind of thing we're going to tolerate in this country um the FBI's role is to focus on violence and threats of violence uh but there is a role for others in the Public Square to address how people communicate in this country and every day in in our jobs we see uh in social media in terms of threats that people are we get you know thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of tips reported to us and the language that's out there uh is just mindboggling ly hateful uh and and violent sounding uh people sometimes as figures of speech use Expressions that that are very violent expressions and so that that is a part of it we can all do better uh in kind of being a little more thoughtful and measured in our language but again the FBI we got to stay in our lane our lane is the violence and the threats of violence there's a role for everybody as Americans to try to see if we can take the temp down agree thank you and thank you for the extra time back gentleman from North Dakota is recognized thank you Mr chairman uh and I really appreciate you correcting the gaming thing about this is my coming out party because we're asking you to do something and we've had acrimonious you and I have actually had acrimonious but we're not here for a got you moment we're just not not on this and we're asking you to give us information before the investigation is complete my only recommendation or suggestion would be when that happens don't necessarily wait till you ask because don't wait for us to ask because there's a and I'll go through why in a second I appreciate you coming in I appreciate you telling us things I appreciate you guys going against essentially your normal policy of waiting till an investigation is done because the American people need to know it but here's why there a guy with a rang finder walking around that everybody noticed and then couldn't find you know he's scaled to the top of a roof Within 150 yards line of sight to uh the presidential Republican former presidential candidate by climing climbing a drain pipe and then you said uh some equipment he was being pointed out by rally goers everywhere they could and nobody could figure it out there's maybe supposed to be local law enforcement in the building either upstairs or downstairs and all of this was going on and I was talking to a colleague of mine yesterday on the floor and it's like I hate the conspiracy theories that come out but this is and this is not the FBI's prview this is the secret Services preview this is so comically like inept to the average to the average North Dakota citizen is just they look at this and they're like how could this possibly happen and so when we by you giving us information in a really meaningful way even though we know the investigations ongoing and things can change that at least helps us to deal with that and figure out where we're at and so I mean and you're doing all this this guy had no combat training no counter surveillance training that you're aware of right I'm sorry I couldn't quite hear that no combat trading oh uh no not I don't think any certainly know what we would call what you and I would call combat training obviously he was a fairly uh active um recreational shooter so he did plenty of of Sho lot of guys uh no not I don't think any certainly know what we would call what you and I would call combat training obviously he was a fairly uh active um recre ational shooter so he did plenty of a lot of guys in Western North Dakota right I mean all of those different things and somehow we came within under of an inch of a presidential candidate being shot and killed within a hundred days out from an election and when you look at it so just I I just want to be really clear because there is a lot of this there is no evidence of another shooter right another shooter to to to I mean there's the sniper who took out the shooter right but you're talking about like another anybody else and you're you're looking at us online and seeing all that but there's no evidence he had any other accomplices on scene that day correct correct that not that we've seen yet certainly and you said and we oversights had a hearing DHS had a hearing we're having a hearing now um the inspector General's going to investigate uh we're probably announcing a bipartisan outside panel but there's another investigation too right because somebody has to clear the shooter like even though it is a secret service officer deploying his I mean when an FBI when when an FBI agent kills one somebody in the line of duty what's the process so uh we have what we call an agent involved shooting is I think what you're getting at we a whole we have a whole process our get put on Leave paid leave get a lawyer depending on how it is right it well those some of those things depend but we have our Inspection Division does uh a shoot review of each time when there's one of these situations and they sometimes have to coordinate with local prosecutors who are also doing some kind of review but um but so yes Secret Service would have a similar kind of process for the counter I mean because you have to actually establish one of I mean one of the defenses to homicide just like I mean you don't do it in a court system the same way everybody else does but you have to justify that that shooting was justified so when the FBI does that do they conduct that all internally uh most of the time yes every once in a while there's a situation where the Inspector General get gets involved do you know how the Secret Service does it I I don't and I just think that's important because when we're talking about how this works and I don't think anybody is arguing it wasn't anybody who's seen it knows what happens but it's just it it knowing it and making sure that the process is handled correctly and I just want to shift gears with my last 30 seconds really quickly because we had a hearing on the northern border in Grand Forks and you were talking about specific threats from Iran but also generally uh and we've diverted an exceptional amount of resour of the Southern border our our interactions 114% increase in apprehensions and the one specific thing with all due respects to my friends and my neighbors from Canada it's a lot easier to get into Canada for some of these countries where we have these real issues with terrorist threats than it is to the United States particularly Iran and are you guys monitoring that and making sure whatever coordination you have with Canada that we're paying attention to that as well we have a an excellent relationship we the FBI with our our Canadian counterparts both uh RCMP you know the mounties as some people euphemistically call them uh and CIS they're um they're my uh intelligence service counterparts uh we have great relationships with them and terrorism is I find uh probably the number one thing we talk about yeah and they're understaffed and overworked on the northern border and they can use all the help you get with that I you back gentan yields back gentleman from Maryland recognize thank you Mr chairman uh director thank you uh for today I I think uh I greatly appreciate your cander uh I know it's highly unusual to go into this level of detail during an active investigation and I know it's a special and unique circumstance um given the nature of what happened that day I I'll ask my colleagues that uh we not try and take advantage of this in in other circumstances I think we need to be careful about um pressuring uh our investigators you know to disclose information in the middle of an investigation um in a casual or or routine way but thank you for what you you've done here uh today I do want to mention this too like uh Congressman Kare I went up to Butler with Homeland Security uh committee and the um had a chance to meet with a number of the people there including people who were there at the rally and um you know I and several of them were elected officials in fact one of them that spoke with me a lot was sitting directly behind Mr Trump when he was shot and she had video that she'd taken and she'd love to share it with you all uh but she mentioned a couple of things too that I I hope you all um will have a chance to have conversations about and I know some of it's going to be in the Secret Service Lane some's going to be in the FBI Lane but uh one of the things she talked about was the fact that the day before the shooting um she and other uh officials in the town and people who just wanted to prepare the stage um showed up and started working on putting the Bunning up and and decorating it but the point she noted was that none of them had been vetted there was nobody there to keep an eye on them and make sure that you know everything that was being done was appropriate um and she actually sort of thought in this in the context of hearing that a gun was found uh or a gun was perhaps hidden at the site before the the shooter was uh uh able to get it use it I don't know those details but those are some of the things that that came up that day she also mentioned that uh there was sort of the Outer Perimeter so you had a perimeter around the stage that the Secret Service had set up beyond that you had a field and then you had the uh the building where the uh the company was and the shooter got on the roof apparently there was a sort of a second level of a perimeter there that wasn't particularly restricted from an access standpoint as as with the street that was just beyond that so she raised and another another elected official raised uh as well issues about security that may actually kind of get into what you're talking about what whether the ladder was there how the guy got on the roof there are all sorts of issues with respect to that and there was a lot of people as you said that had videotape I just I talked to three that were showing me videos while I was standing out there on the in the grounds but I had a couple of questions to ask of you briefly um apparently there was no secret service record of communications during that day um you know there's no no no radio runs we call them but there's no tapes do you know if there any recorded conversations among law enforcement from that day I don't know the details of that I I I believe there may be some um but I don't u i don't have in front of me exactly what what we've seen uh or heard okay and then with respect to email Communications there were a lot of issues about you know cuz my personal view having gone to the site was that they shouldn't they just shouldn't have had the r the rally there it should not have been permitted I thought there were just too many roofs you know he picked one but there was like a half dozen others that he could have picked on the other side of the field and as uh Eli crane a congressman who was a sniper for the US military said there was a water tower uh that actually would have been a better site probably the that uh Secret Service should have used but could have been used as well but had the the leadup to that decision and Congressman kareah raised this who made this decision about how to pick the site and apparently there was back and forth between local law uh enforcement Secret Service and the campaign and I was kind of curious as to whether that's something that your investigation is going into or not so I think that primarily Falls within the scope of the other the two other reviews that is the inspector the DHS Inspector General review and the outside panel independent panel that's been announced uh certainly we are interviewing uh law enforcement Personnel um but the security preparations the adequacy of the security preparations that's the other lane that's the other Lane right I only got 15 seconds left quick question for you with a probably not a quick answer but this scenario is kind of the worst case scenario from a couple of standpoints got a lone wool shooter with no red flags that we've heard of so far um you know nobody should have known that this was coming he didn't have a criminal record and that sort of thing easy access to an assault weapon I had a discussion like this with um I think Congressman Roy and Congressman Bishop several months ago what is it we can do to try and preempt those kinds of scenarios we've got gun violence all over the country including in my district this is one example but you know this scenario is the worst possible that I can think of from the standpoint of no intervention prevention efforts that can be put in place to try and address it but I'm kind of curious if you have any thoughts to the contrary on that I don't know that I have uh any uh magic solution to to the problem and I certainly don't want to be um proposing you know legislative ideas that's not really my role um certainly uh dangerous weapons especially high-powered weapons in the hands of the wrong person uh represent a a real concern for for law enforcement um including two law enforcement uh sometimes as the victims as we saw very tragically down near Miami with two of our agents killed um that's probably all I can say on that I do while we're on the subject of firearms Mr chairman I do get I have an answer to congresswoman Dean's question I might as well give it now ra um which is about the the purchase of the firearm uh I'm I'm told that the father purchased the firearm in 2013 so quite a while ago and then he sold it to his son in October of 2023 thank you thank you Mr chairman I yield back and thank you Mr director for your great word uh I'd ask unanimous consent that we enter into the record a statement from representative Kelly um and some questions for the bureau um representative Kelly represents Butler actually that's his hometown so without objection those will be entered into the record and we'll we'll make sure you get those director gentlemen from New Jersey is recognized thank you Mr chairman before I begin and this is not directly with you actually I just wanted to straighten something out I know my colleagues the gentlemen and the gentle ladies from Georgia Washington California uh Pennsylvania they all mentioned project 2025 well I don't know how they expect you to know about that number one uh I'm pretty damn involved I don't really know a whole lot about it but president Trump has made it clear and we're going to say it again we'll say it over and over again that there are some things he disagreed with some things he agreed with that he wasn't that familiar with it was from the Heritage Foundation and that was just raw politics to be honest with you it was just because 2025 has some things in it that they believe are really going to offend American people and it very well may and so they want to pin it on the presidential candidate he didn't author it he didn't condone it he didn't put a seal of approval on it it's getting old it really is we do this with other thing just like in this committee when anything goes wrong anything somehow Donald Trump's name has to be brought into it and it gets tiring it's politics over reality second thing about picking the site I was intimately involved in the Wildwood rally the biggest rally president Trump's ever had biggest political rally in the state of New Jersey uh I had spoken to the president about it and he wanted to do it on the beach because we had over 100,000 people and let me tell you we had everybody out there because they were concerned the Secret Service and the local police and the the County police and just about every entity could be and so they had behind it was that iconic setting they had the Ferris wheels on the pier and all the stuff they had agents up in there they had agents in the ocean in the water in boats they had people coordinating working with each other and talking with each other because they knew it was a risk so we chose a site that was difficult the president did and I thought it was a great site but nevertheless unless we the law enforcement responded properly something went wrong here you can't blame this on Donald Trump as well the site was chosen it's the responsibility of those who serve in law enforcement to make sure that he was safe period and I'm sure you'll find out why um on another tangent here you know I I've got to wonder how many qualified people were passed in order for director cheel to get her 30% % quota that's a lousy way to run an agency especially when it's dealing with law enforcement to say we've got to have 30% of anything and I worry about these practices because it's policy over protection and director Ray um I know that some things were left to you I understand that but one of your early acts on the Biden presidency was hiring the FBI's very first Chief diversity officer and since that time and even before your time but and you're going to disagree with me but respectfully I'm going to disagree with you recruitment standards under your lead has resulted in deterioration in many areas including physical fitness illicit drug use Financial irregularities mental health issues full-time work experience and integrity uh and I know you dismissed them but in October 2023 they are a prestigious group of retired FBI special agents and analysts both Express concern regarding the FBI's willingness to recruit agents that quote I'm not saying this they said it not me can't even pass the new relaxed standards for Fitness or illiterate in some cases and need lessons educational lessons don't want to work weekends or after hours their words and have serious disabilities or mental health issues which is not the place for them most of your agents are great people I love them I love them for what they do I'm not criticizing most but these new standards don't you think this is a hindrance and reduces the morale of the vast majority of good people that you have in the FBI and ask you for a quick answer because I have a few other things so I I respect our retired agents that many of them come to our graduations now um and I can tell you emphatically that they are mistake those who think that we have lowered our standards whether it's on physical fitness or anything else are mistaken and you can prove that the facts back me up on that the standards are the same today as they were a decade ago I me they've changed in some ways appr in fact the physical fitness standards depends on how far back you go but the physical fitness standards that our current graduates have to have to graduate from quanico actually exceed some of the physical fitness standards that were in place if you go back far enough with some of our retirees but what I would tell you I think part of the reason there's confusion and again I accept that these folks are raising their concerns in good faith but we have actually access to the fact and part of the reason I think there's confusion just take the physical fitness thing as an example is that before you had to pass the the physical fitness test before you showed up to quanico now you have to pass it in order to get a badge at quano the standard hasn't changed you still have to pass the same test the same 12-point standard Etc all that stuff applies the only difference is you can pass it while you're at quanico but if you don't pass that same test that's been in place for a long time now you don't get a badge and we will dismiss people from quano and we do who don't pass I know I have to wrap this up and I appreciate that if you could get us information that substantiates what you say that should be easy enough to do to the whole committee I'd appreciate it you know feelings in this Administration are more important than functionality it's resulted in a border crisis we don't have time to talk about that you've spoken out about it I appreciate that You' spoken out about it I think it's also resulted in shortages in our nation's law enfor enforcement in our military and I think it makes us less safe so I look forward to seeing those statistics and that proof because I have people talking to my ear that told me otherwise and I yield back gentleman yields back gentleman from Alabama is recognized thankk you Mr chairman director Ray I appreciate you being here today and I certainly appreciate your forthcoming us and and and and giving us information that I think uh that the American people want and you know to me it's you have a very difficult job right now um in the past and under certainly uh the Russian collusion narrative got out pretty heavily and uh that came out of the FBI with the F and wars and that sort of stuff spot on General Flynn and then the laptop issue the hunter Biden laptop issue which FBI actually had in their possession so I have 800,000 people thereabouts that I represent and our job is to restore trust and so in a lot of the hearings we've had this week they said well the FBI is investigating that the F the every answer was the FBI is investigating this and so uh in some ways it kind of landed in your lap and I appreciate you being here but uh you know it's just for me the question of how does a 20-year-old acting Al get a long gun a range finder we know he bought a ladder I guess he Recon area and realized he didn't need the ladder to get on top of the building so he left it at the house get on a roof within 150 yards of the most one of the most famous people in the the world I guess now and a former president how does that happen and how do we restore trust in the American people that the FBI and the DH s who is under May orc's director now how do we verify and get trust back to the American people that these agencies are really working to protect the president and and I'm not trying to place blame specifically but I never thought that we'd raate his house I never dreamed that they'd raate a former president's house I certainly never imagined that they would actually indict him and I felt well they'll never find him guilty and now we've had a threat on his life so how do we restore trust in the government of this country and the agenc that are here that we pay and provide $3 billion a year to the Secret Service to protect some of the leading political candidates in America that's a lot I'm sorry that's a lot of questions but I'm just I mean I'm gon to give you a little room to talk right no no I I listen I obviously you included a lot as you said in your question and as you might imagine I disagree fairly strongly with a number of parts of it uh but sensitive to the time I guess what I would say this I can speak to my approach to running the f FBI again the FBI was not involved in the physical security of the rally that's you know we come in as the investigators afterwards and as I've said before our investigation is an investigation of the shooter and his attack there are separate investigations the Inspector General of DHS and this outside independent panel that's been announced that would be looking at secret Services performance and those I think will be important to trust and confidence if you will in secret service but from the FBI perspective we can't promise that everybody's going to like the results of what we do right what we can promise is that we're going to do our best to do the work in the right way that's all we can do and so I keep telling our folks every day on this and on everything else our Focus has to be we got to do the work in the right way we got to make sure we do the work in the right way and then no matter who likes it because everything we do somebody doesn't like it and we it's a credibility issue at this point do do the American people trust what the FBI and the doj is going to tell them and you know that's the thing with this over when I was early on and I've only been here about three and a half four years now but the American people was the fear of the weaponization of government so now we have this issue Tucker Carlson asked the president he said you are you afraid they'll kill you I remember that interview and I thought wow I can't believe he went there but here we are and so as we work through this process I think it's so important and I think the chairman hit on this is the audio of of the shooter this you you've interviewed the sniper Secret Service sniper that took out the target was he waiting on a green light what was going on and why did the why did the Mr Crooks have a chance to get off eight rounds and we knew he was on the rooftop I don't know for how long but we know he was a marked Target so was he trying to get the green light and was somebody not giving it to him so again the the performance uh the adequacy of the performance of Secret Service will be the subject of the Inspector General investigation and this outside independent panel what I can tell you um and I'm glad you asked the question because this goes to something that we uh that was part of an earlier exchange um the the first time that anybody from law enforcement uh saw the subject uh on the roof was a few minutes before the shooting not with a gun they didn't at that point they didn't but they local law enforcement a few minutes before saw him on the roof and started radioing did he have a backpack going up the roof did they well nobody has we haven't found anybody yet who's who saw him okay climbing up the roof the reason we uh the reason I've talked about how we think he got on the roof is that's based on Forensic uh our evidence response to in forensic analysis uh that were you know without getting into all the details Footprints and things like that that we can uh you know fingerprints Etc that we can see how we got on but we don't have an eyewitness at the moment who saw him climbing up so a few minutes before the shooting uh local law enforcement uh saw him on the roof again not no weapon identified at that point a few seconds before the shooting is when the law enforcement officer that I've talked about already uh saw is one was assisted by another officer who saw Up on the Roof saw the shooter in a prone uh shooting position with the gun turns how long did that happen before that was that that sighting that is the first time to my knowledge the first time anybody from law enforcement saw him with a weapon that is seconds before he shot at president Trump thank you Mr chairman I yeld back so did the counter sniper not see the bad guy the shooter until after he fired a shot you mean until after the the subject fired a shot until after yeah I don't uh I don't know the answer to that it's possible we've already determined that but I I just as I sit here right now I don't have that but I can yeah I think that's a logical next question with with where the gentleman from Alabama's was question was going the gentleman from California is recognized for five minutes director R to the best of your understanding how close did the Assassin's bullet come to killing president Trump my understanding is that either it or some shrapnel uh is what you know grazed his uh his ear so I don't know that I have the the act very close though what said very very close you would agree yes is this the biggest security failure that you've seen in your career well uh certainly I think director former director cheel has already uh I think acknowledged that this was uh a significant at the very least a significant operational failure I forgot her exact words but I I will defer uh on that I think we really haven't seen anything like this in at least decades in this country right the the attempted assassination of a president current or former uh is a historic event was this a sophisticated plot that uh Thomas uh krooks carried out well uh I think probably depends on your definition of sophisticated right so uh on the one hand he's a a 20-year-old um seems from what we've seen so far loner uh you know without a you know a lot of um elaborate criminal his without any criminal history or anything like that on the other hand um he did clearly do some level of planning and Recon when did the planning start to the best of your know when did the planning start well we're still drilling into that but we know we assess that uh that on July 6th so a week in advance for example uh it seems to be that he seems to become focused on it because that's when as I've testified here today that's when it the laptop that we've tied to him has the Google search how far away was Oswald from Kennedy I mean that seems like an IND indication of a total amateur right someone who's searching for for that and he's doing it a week in advance again I don't want to characterize him I frankly don't want to give him the credit of characterizing him as amateur or professional but what I will say is that there are some things he did that involve certain amount of planning and preparation on the other hand if you're telling me uh do I think this is the most sophisticated ever of course not we deal with much more sophisticated adversaries all the time you probably prepare for more sophisticated plans to Target high level officials you probably prepare for more sophisticated plans to Target high level officials correct we well we we don't do physical security but yes obviously we're investigating much more sophisticated attacks all the time how about the encrypted uh applications on his phone did were those there for a while or did he download them uh you know in the days or weeks leading up to the assassination attempt uh I don't have the answer to that sitting here right now um I think it may vary from platform to platform because he had a number of encrypted messaging uh apps uh on it and again as I've I've said we're we're trying to get get access to that content and that's important I think it's important for everybody on this committee to understand that this is a real problem for law enforcement that these companies let's be clear here these companies are designing their platforms in a way to no matter how heinous the crime no matter how Rock Solid the legal process R out of access get the next question um at this moment uh are you confident that uh high level protectees presidents former presidents are well protected it's not really for me to say I have a lot of respect for the men and women of the Secret Service who provide protection just as I do for their counterparts at other agencies you can't say one way or the other your assessment is direct of the FBI whether the president is safe I'm not an expert on protective details in physical security what I would tell you is that uh we have a very robust system for sharing threat information with those agencies and that in my experience the men and women of the Secret Service are professionals who are hardworking who are literally willing to take a bullet for their protect te you mentioned uh a thwarted assassination attempt against former President Bush are there any other thwarted assassination attempts against current or former presidents that you could discuss not to immediately come to mind but you know I'd have to go back and think about that I mean you know obviously we've been around for a while and current and former presidents are um high-profile targets who are attractive to all kinds of bad guys there's also been reports that uh the uh uh Shooter's parents called a local law enforcement to say he was missing on the day of the shooting is that correct and uh if so is that something that you would seem as a sort of a natural thing for them to do it seems like a 20-year-old who's been missing for a few hours maybe his parents don't first thing they do call the police what's what was going on with that with that situation uh so my recollection I don't have this in front of me my recollection is they did call uh concerned that he was missing uh my recollection though is that they didn't call until this was after the I think this was after the event um but I I'm not certain of that so uh I want to you know hedge on that slightly because I have to get back to you to confirm that I believe that part of the issue was that um when he last saw his father he I think indicated to his father that he was going to shoot at the range and then of course he didn't go to the range and he didn't come back from that and so I think that may have added to the level of concern thank you I you back gentleman yields back gentle lady from Wyoming is recognized thank you Mr chairman director re I'm going to go a little bit different route with my questioning in testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee in December of last year you stated that the FBI is quote especially concerned about the possibility of Hamas supporters engaging in violence on the group's behalf end quote and that the threat from a quote terrorist organization who may exploit the attacks at Israel as a tool to mobilize their followers around the world end quote we've seen uh a lot of conduct today that I think is concerning to many people in terms of Hamas terrorists and their sympathizers reports have surfaced alleging that many of the groups intimidating and violating the civil rights of Jewish American students like the students for justice for Palestine received guidance and financial support from American Muslims for Palestine and that 's directors allegedly have links to groups which fundrais for Hamas director Rey is the Bureau aware of or investigating whether these groups violating the civil liberties of Jewish Americans are connected to or affiliated with Hamas or other terrorist organizations so we are investigating uh an a lot of uh attacks and threats against the Jewish Community uh I've been very vocal on how big a concern that is and certainly that was already heightened even before October 7th and since October 7th went to a whole another level we are actively engaged with uh Jewish Community both locally and nationally uh when it comes to foreign terrorist organizations and their role uh or foreign adversaries in their role we are looking hard to see if we can find linkage uh you know for example uh you know funding or things like that uh nothing that I can report at this time but it's something but you're investigating it it is the kind of thing that we're looking for absolutely because we know that there's an interest in their part uh to uh ferment we're watching it in real time today yes um there are other reports that mayor bitard National Security Council coordinator for intelligence and defense policy and Deputy assistant to the president was an active member in students for justice in Palestine at Georgetown University which is one of the groups alleged to have ties to Hamas is the Bureau investigating whether the Biden Harris Administration is compromised by Pro Hamas groups and organizations well again we're we're have quite a number of Hamas related investig I'm asking specifically about about about whether you are investigating whether the B whether the Biden Harris Administration has been compromised by pramas groups there's nothing along those lines that that I uh U can think of to report um I also want to talk to you a bit about the FBI's investigation and involvement with the Russia collusion hoax and the the FBI was involved with that because of its potential relationship to election interference is that correct the FBI's involvement in investigating the Russia collusion hoax that was because there was concern about election interference is that correct well the FBI was involved uh and staffed as investigators the uh special councilor Muller investigation uh into efforts by the Russian government uh to influence and interfere with the election correct yes all right so uh is the FBI investigating what just happened with Joe Biden being forced out of the race after winning the Democrat primary as election interference is the FBI investigating that right now I'm not aware of any investigation uh along those lines okay um director Ray it was reported in March that the FBI's foreign influence task force resumed communication with social media companies and an FBI spokesman has stated that quote in coordination with the Department of Justice the FBI recently implemented procedures to facilitate sharing information about foreign malign influence with social media companies in a way that reinforces that private companies are free to decide on their own whether and how to take action on the information end quote uh director Ry What specifically is the FB FBI doing to reinforce that such decisions are in fact for the private companies to make and not the administration so uh I think the best way to summarize it is that the guidance uh makes uh all kinds of additional steps to underscore that the FBI has no interest in participating in any way whatsoever in the company's decision making that companies are completely free to take any actions on their own that we are simply passing information onto them uh for them them to do whatever it is they want to do independently uh consistent with I should say uh I very much appreciate the Supreme Court's finding that no evidence that the FBI coerced platforms to take content down well I don't believe that that's what the Supreme Court found what the Supreme Court found was that the parties involved didn't have standing but I think there's a whole body of evidence and legal analysis demonstrating that in fact this Administration was violating the First Amendment rights of of folks through social media companies I'm just going to ask one very one final very quick question if the FBI was involved in the removal or restriction of speech of Americans do you agree that this would be a violation of the First Amendment well again I'm not going to engage in hypotheticals my understanding and my strong view from everything I've seen is that we did not violate the First Amendment lady y's back gentleman from Texas is recognized thank you director i' I've just got two easy questions for you in February Donald Trump Jr re received a letter containing a white suspicious powder that read quot Lee Harvey Oswald's grandson must complete his contract end quote the United States Secret Service and the FBI said they would investigate the matter and five months later no more information has been released I've also visited with Mr Trump and he has not received any information either why is that so as I sit here right now I'm not familiar with the specific investigation but I do know that we uh have had unfortunately quite a few investigations of um threatening mailings and white powder letters and things like that so I'm happy to drill into it and have us Circle back to see if there's more information we can share about it thank you and would you maybe Circle back to the Mr Trump Donald Jr I think they'd like an update as well uh sure let me again I don't like I said I'm not familiar with the specifics but I'm happy to have us look into it and get back to whoever we need to get back to thank you uh next question the Pittsburgh field office now handling the assassination attempt investigation is that right uh well there's several there Pittsburgh field office is the lead office we obviously have lots of I think it's about half maybe over half of the FBI's field offices are working on this including almost every headquarters division uh so we have lots and lots and lots several hundreds of of employees working on it Pittsburgh's the lead okay this is the same office that botched the hunter Biden laptop case and they in my view and my constituents and many Americans displayed a clear reluctance qu that's a quote reluctance to really do any tasking quote effectively failing to investigate according to the US attorney on the case my question is how can we trust this office and why does it keep reappearing in critical election related investigations or is that just dumb luck so I want to be a little bit careful on what I can say here because some of what you're talking about relates to an ongoing investigation being led to by the special counsel uh Mr wise but what I can tell you is that the Pittsburgh field office's involvement in the matter that you're talking about was uh the choice to BU the attorney general attorney general bar to have the US attorney and the FBI field office in Pittsburgh handle that particular matter as to your summary or characterization of what uh us attorney now former US attorney Brady actually said I'd have to see the whole context I'm not quite sure that's what he said but I I think as to your overall question about confidence what I would tell you is we have that's the point I'm trying to make about the sheer breadth of our investigation yes the Pittsburgh field office is the office on the ground that's where the the attempted assassination happened but we are using the full might of the FBI criminal and National Security that's why I'm pointing out that multiple field offices over half of our field offices almost every headquarters division several hundreds of employees these are people uh who are working around the clock to deal with this historic attack uh and I have the utmost confidence in those hundreds of employees agents analysts and professional staff and the American people should too I yield to Mr Jordan I appreciate the gentleman yielding uh uh director I guess I'm not clear exactly where all you said there were eight shell casings on the roof so eight bullets were fired we obviously know that Mr comor lost his life two other two other rally goers were injured seriously injured and then then the one that hit president Trump um does that account for was were some of these individuals hit multiple times where did all eight bullets go is I guess my question uh I don't have that in front of me I'm happy to Circle back and get that to you uh assuming we have that information yet um uh as I said I think with uh with respect to former president Trump um there's it there some question about whether or not uh it's a b bullet or shrapnel that you know that hit his ear so it's it's conceivable although as I sit here right now I don't know whether that bullet in addition to you know causing the grazing could have also landed somewhere else um but I believe we've accounted for all of the shots and the cartridges so let us get that it's my understanding that the very first one was the one that hit the president is that very first shot or is that not accurate I don't as I said to you right now I don't know the answer to that I believe we know the answer to that I just don't have it in front of me okay okay um is there any chance this this I mean it seems to me that this bad guy this shooter was was focused on President Trump but you indicated that he purchased 50 rounds of of ammunition I believe earlier that day do you have any indication thus far in your investigation that in addition to going after and trying to assassinate the former president he was also looking to do a lot more damage to other individuals that's a hard question question to answer what I would say is I agree with you that um his Preparatory activity uh is what we've seen so far the limited information that that has been relevant and interesting about his Preparatory activity does seem to be that he had settled on former president Trump as a Target and this rally as his moment to try to take a shot um but uh in addition to the 50 rounds of course you have the issue of these explosive devices right um and so what else he may have had in mind is is something that I think is very much of an open question um on the one hand you have these explosive devices including the one still back in his home uh that wasn't in quite the same stage as the one in the vehicle vehicles uh ones in the vehicle but uh he clearly had those explosive devices for some reason um and so we're trying to figure that out as I've said before you know sometimes in these kind of situations you find like a Manifesto or something like that it's frustrating to us and I'm sure frustrating to you and the American people that we haven't found anything quite like that it be love to have a road map that tells us exactly what he was thinking we haven't found that yet doesn't mean we won't we're looking all over the place and we're going to leave no stone unturned thank you gentleman from Texas is recognized thank you Mr chair thank you director for being here today I know it's been a very long day busy day on Capitol Hill and also I want to apologize in advance if there's any repe comptitive questions uh for me uh but I have to ask uh giving that our sitting president resigned from The Campaign on Sunday and the Secret Service director resigned yesterday you don't plan on resigning anytime soon do you sir no sir good to go uh earlier today uh you told this committee that you recovered eight bullet cartridges from the roof next to the shooter and given that testimony I have two questions for you uh how many shots were fired at president Trump and how many shots were fired in total of the entire day I know keep hearing eight but were there any more that that were unaccounted for uh the best information I have right now is eight shots as to the sequence uh I'm not sure I have that sitting here right now as I said to the chairman I'm going to go back to my team and see if if we've got that nailed down yet and if we have I'm happy to share it with with you and the rest of the committee please do sir thank you very much for that uh you also mentioned that that the shooter used encrypted messages to uh to to communicate specifically do you know what apps or what what apps he was using to communicate and can you confirm if he was communicating with any foreign Nationals through the encrypted messages so as to the names of the apps I don't have that uh right here in front of me um as far as um communicating with any foreign actors um I'll say two things one we haven't as I I think I've testified before we have not uh at the moment at least identified any accompli or co-conspirators foreign or domestic so that as to foreign contacts of course that's part of why we want to get access corre to the uh encrypted messages because um that might tell us whether he' been in contact with somebody thank you um let's talk about motive I know the FBI has taken the taken a lead role in investigating the assassination on on President Trump uh your team has uh searched the shooter's phone conducted countless interviews then extensive research into his motives as of today July 24th 2024 do you and your team know the motive of the shooter or have any idea on what could have driven it well no and have any idea are two two very different things um we do not know the motive um that is obviously one of the central questions in our investigation uh and it's been very frustrating to us that a lot of the usual kind of loow hanging fruit places that we would find that have not yielded uh significant Clues uh about his motive having said that uh we have seen indications that he was interested in public figures uh and that in the period um around July 6th leading up to July 13th uh he does seem to have become very focused on this particular rally and former president Trump but exactly what his thought process was in doing that that's something that's still very much under investigation I want to make something clear to the American people try to help out what motive could be uh and again it's not my job to steer it but here are some of my thoughts uh I'm I'm not sure about motive either specifically but I can tell you that after this assassination of 10 people on both sides have said that both parties need to tone down the rhetoric uh but recently just on Monday in fact President Biden called into the Harris campaign event and said that President Trump was a threat to democracy just take a look behind me at this at these photos this is a magazine cover of the new Republic from June 2024 published just one month before the assassination attempt on President Trump in a tweet explaining the cover the new Republic the the new Republic said this today we at the new Republic think we can spend this this election year in one of two ways we can spend it debating rather Trump meets the nine or 17 points that Define fascism or we could spend it saying he's damn close enough and we'd better fight we unreservedly choose the latter course now sir I I know you said that the FBI doesn't have a clear motive yet and you've you've explained that but in your professional experience as an investigator do you think that language like this could radicalize someone to engage political violence I certainly understand the point of the question what I would tell you is that uh respectfully uh I don't think it's appropriate for me as FBI director to be characterizing or engaging in public commentary on specific people's rhetoric and that's because uh it's not that I don't understand why you're raising the question but I'm saying that in my role I have to be very careful to make sure we speak through our work and we speak through our cases and our intelligence products not the FBI director uh chiming in in the Public Square on different people's uh public you know political commentary understand for the record uh there was an assassination attempt on an American president and I will be asking these same questions even if it were President Biden in my message to the American people is that we need to do better i y back the rest of my time and thank you for being here sir I know it's been a very long day gentleman yields back gentleman from South Carolina is recognized thank you chairman and thank you director for being here actually it's refreshing I was in the over hearing earlier this week and um although we don't have an idea on everything um the your ability to come in here and actually give way more than director cheel ever did uh is somewhat refreshing uh you saw some pretty bipartisan frustrations exhibited in that particular hearing I'm sure you've seen part of it um I want to follow up on a couple lines of questions that I had with director cheel um that she actually answered which was remarkable um one um she had indicated that secret service at the Trump rally had not did not have any uh radio recordings is that in your investigation is that accurate uh I'm not sure I know the answer to that uh I believe we have there may be some recordings uh on the local law enforcement side uh as to whether or not we have recordings on the Secret Service side I'd have to drill back into that and and the reason I'm you might say well how the heck can you not know well we certainly have interviewed lots of Secret Service employees so what we know from the interviews versus some other source as I sit here right now I don't I don't know so on this on this particular case but in your experience and again it's a different agency but uh she had indicated director cheel had indicated that recordings sometimes are done uh from Radio recordings I guess of what happens at a trump Rally or any other thing that they're engaged in uh is that your experience as well that sometimes there are uh audio recordings of community Communications between law enforcement officials just speaking very broadly uh there certainly there are times when there are recordings but it'd be hard for me to be more precise than that and I know that you can't answer whether they were here in this instance or not but what would cause recordings to not exist for um for the Trump rally if as a hypothetical what would what would be the reason that that would happen I'm afraid I I don't I don't know the answer to that I mean if they if they didn't record then maybe situations where they just don't record in the first place and why that would be though I I'm not sure I can answer that thank you let me ask you this and this is another line of questioning director cheel had indicated that seconds before um this the Assassin the wouldbe Assassin fired the shot is roughly seconds is when um he became a person of Suspicion uh to an actual threat would you agree with that assessment from director cheel well let me let me try it this way I think there are um there are sort of three in my mind there's sort of three let's say three significant moments um on this Continuum that you're kind of getting at there is uh roughly an hour before the shooting when local law enforcement observes uh the individual uh this the shooter at that point uh as somebody that was a person of concern I forgot the exact phrasing and that was based on seeing him with this Rangefinder uh no no observation of a weapon but there was something odd and off about them they caught local law enforcement's attention so that's the first moment then there's a second moment which is um uh you know I think just minutes before the shooting where local law enforcement um observed him on the roof but didn't see a weapon is my understanding at that point uh and at that point uh their level of concern obviously was even higher and then there's the third moment uh which is that moment when local law enforcement saw him uh you know the officer who climbed up with the assistance of his colleague and saw the shooter in the prone position uh with the weapon and that's seconds before the uh event and so you know terminology I know I'm not sure but it seems to me there's an evolution of concern over that time period correct and an escalating uh concern what what uh at what point and and this again I just don't know so I'm curious at what point is uh say the sniper who um who killed Mr Crooks at what point is he able to fire a shot and does he have to have authorization in which to do that uh I don't know that I know secret Services Rules of Engagement uh in that situation um it's possible that our interview uh of the counter sniper has uh uncovered that again our Focus has been I certainly understand why you're asking the question but our Focus has been on the shooter himself and his actions uh and the attack uh these two other reviews the DHS Inspector General and the outside independent panel are both looking at the performance of The Secret Service which would uh I'm confident include the question that you're talking about thank you I actually think you know from from a legislative purpose of what this body will probably ultimately do uh it's it's of uh great importance that we uh break down barriers of communication and that we allow um you know officers to do their job without uh so that this doesn't happen again and I appreciate you being here thank you D Gman Yi's back gentleman from Ohio is recognized well once again as Congressman fry said uh we want to thank you for your time and a lot more uh information today than Monday so thank you for that I just have a handful of questions I would love to have just a simple yes or no so we could get done with this so on day one President Biden issued an executive order mandating Dei programs in the executive branch you responded by hiring FBI's first ever Chief diversity officer you're even on the bureau's website quoting saying that diversity and inclusion of the workforce is something I care deeply about because the success of our efforts impacts our operations our culture and our future end of quote so director just a simple yes or no do you still find Dei hiring practices to be Central to the FBI's operations cultures and future I believe that diversity is an important part uh is a core value U of of a high performing organization do you have any concerns that our homeland security efforts will be hampered if the FBI if the FBI continues to use Dei as a primary hiring measure I don't believe that we use Dei as a primary hiring metric I would say that we have not lowered our standards I feel let me if I could finish it's not a yes or no question uh we have not lowered our standards and the facts back that up are you aware of a 112-page report compiled by senior agents and analysts which stated quote if the current trajectory of the FBI special agent Recruitment and selection continues using de EI as the primary and sole measure of her homel and security efforts will be significantly hampered do you know about that 112 page report I I'm aware of a report uh from a number of anonymous former employees thank you do you agree that protecting former president falls under the umbrella of Homeland Security well protecting the former president the uh physical security the protective detail on the former president is the province of the Secret Service which is part of the Department of homeless security it is my understanding that historically the FBI had 100,000 applications for special agents on file at any given time of the year so talking about slipping recruitment are you aware that on February of 2024 a letter from the FBI as assistant director for Training Division which reported the FBI only received an estimated 48,000 applications over a two-year period I don't know if we're comparing Apple to Apple what I can tell you is that in the time that I've been FBI director the number of Americans applying to be special agent has gone up dramatically uh to the tune of in some cases double or triple the pace if I could finish sir if I could finish please to a rate that is higher you'd have to go back about a decade or so to find the number of Americans applying to be special agents that are currently applying okay so for the record that 48,000 is probably wrong then in your eyes I I don't know I haven't I don't have the letter in front of me but what I'm not sure of is that that we're comparing Apple to Apple in terms of time periods and everything else in advance of the Trump shooting United States Secret Service special agent in charge Tim Burke reportedly told law enforcement partners that NATO Summit in Washington DC limited his resources available to the Trump rally the service has similar de Dei hiring aims and failed their zero fail mission to protect president Trump director cheel has since stepped down could the hyperfixation on hitting Biden administration's impose Dei Rules by causing the FBI and the federal law enforcement agencies to not only miss their Prime C candidates but also potential threats well I can't speak to secret services hiring practice what I can tell you is that in my view diversity like everything else is something that has to be done in the right way just like everything else is a right way and a wrong way to achieve it I think we can and have achieved improvements in diversity and at the same time not lowered our standards and I think part of the reason we've been able to do that is because of the encouraging increase increase in the number of Americans applying to be speci the investigation to the planning of pipe bombs at the RNC and DNC headquarters has been going on for over three and a half years and will soon have lasted longer than the Biden presidency I look forward to you proving yourselves because we haven't received any update right now on the Trump shooting since July 15th and the people really need that can the public expect a more transparent And Timely invest investigation to the attempted assassination of former president Trump I I've been testifying here all day about the investigation into former attempted assassination of former president Trump and we've done multiple briefings and I've answered multiple questions and we appreciate that because like I said you were asking well it just seems like there hasn't been a press conference to the people to go through all the different details that were already presented today and I'll just leave you with one final question um the government is is not doing their job do you feel as the Director that perhaps like not only the FBI but the Secret Service needs to have a complete reconstruction do you think it's still put together the way that could best do its job the FBI that I see every single day having visited all 56 of our field offices at least twice many of them three times the FBI that I see engaging with state and local law enforcement from all 50 states that I hear about from prosecutors judges Business Leaders Community leaders foreign Partners is an FBI that is respected trusted appreciated and that is there for people when they need them the most and that is the FBI that I see and I'm very proud to be a part of them any comment on um the other agencies uh no I'm not going to comment on other agencies appreciate your time sir you go back to the chair gentlemen y's back uh director I have just a couple quick questions but I want to give uh to the ranking member a chance to save some remarks or questions and then we'll then we'll be done thank you Mr chair first I'd like to say as somebody when I grew up I watched The Untouchables and I think Elliot NES would be proud of you I don't know about Jagger Hoover but Elliot NES for sure uh let me ask you this in Memphis you you you've put Memphis and Nashville's FBI together kind of Consolidated and in one office and we have I know you've worked with our us attorney and others to work on the our crime situation there and it's gotten better uh but it's this change in the FBI relationship there we're not going to have an office necess tell me tell me how that's going to affect Memphis so uh I want to be very clear we're not leaving we're not leaving Memphis uh we what we are doing is nobody should leave Memphis in fact most of the songs are about people going to Memphis we are they leave Nashville they go to Memphis recognizing population growth and the threat environment we have instead uh taken if you look across the State instead of having two field offices in Knoxville and Memphis we're creating a Tennessee division headquartered in the middle in Nashville but we are keeping we are keeping the offices in Knoxville and Memphis uh and in fact when it comes to Memphis specifically not only will it not result in any decrease in the number of Agents there to work actually strange as it might sound it's going to allow us to increase the number of agents who will be assigned to the Memphis office uh including to tackle things like violent crime which I know is of huge concern uh and the reason for that is really the effect of this reorganization is to be able to reduce administrative roles that will be more Consolidated in the middle of Nashville but it allow us to increase the operational roles the agent roles uh the number of them in Memphis so I think not only are we not leaving Memphis we're actually increasing our investigative presence in Memphis as part of this and we're going to be able to continue to collaborate closely with our great Partners there um without skipping a beat thank you that's reassuring one of the questions was asked over here was about uh previous assassination attempts on presidents and obviously I I know you're a lot younger than me but you probably did did you ever watch The Untouchables I I have watched they had a one of the programs was on mayor surmac you don't know mayor surmac I'm sorry I couldn't hear you may surmac do you know who he was I did not he was the mayor of Chicago and if February of 1933 there was an assassination attempt on Franklin Roosevelt in Miami Florida and mayor SAR s CAC cmak was killed uh and said I'm glad it was me and not you allegedly he said that but anyway that was an attempt and it failed and that was Untouchables brought it into my Consciousness but thank you for your work I appreciate it very much and uh and I appreciate you're not looking into changing our Democratic nominee that's something we normally do thank you director um I'm I'm still not clear in my mind when did the counter snipers um the good guys when did they first get eyes on the bad guy the the wouldbe Assassin um on the on the on the roof of the ARR building uh I'm not certain but I'll I'll take my best effort here I guess I'm if I I'm sorry to interrupt but yeah did they have eyes on him before the local law enforcement was looking up on the roof and engaged with the the bad guy shooter I don't know the answer to that I will look into that and get back to you I believe we have the answer I just don't know that I have it I want to make sure I answer accurately because we thought from the briefings that uh Mr abot Abbot gave us or bate gave excuse me aate gave us um and the briefings you gave the Congress that they did but I I I it wasn't clear from your teston if you can get that answer to us that that would be helpful I want to Circle back just a third time if I could to the Iranian uh uh threat to president Trump and and some others uh former members of our government um the reason I want to go back to that because we now know that the Secret Service and and Homeland Security denied resources to president Trump's detail that they had asked for and it seems to me if that all happened after you guys knew about the Iran threat and had briefed the Secret Service on that real threat that's an even bigger problem and that's why I was trying to get that timeline down when you knew about it and when you brief the Secret Service on the Iranians threat to kill President Trump so again I really want to be careful to uh both be accurate but also not to kind of stray into any kind of classified information or confirm the existence of classified information um so let me see if there's a way for us to get back to you on that question I understand why you're asking it may be easier to answer than I think but at the moment in an open hearing I'm not sure if I can see the right way to do that fair enough we we'll we'll expect answers to both of those questions and get get back to this that that'd be great finally anything else you want to tell us that that we didn't ask you you came today and you told us some things that weren't even prompted by questions and I just want to make sure if there's anything else you want to tell us um regarding July 13th and what you've discovered you know Now's the Time well again we're going to continue to engage with the Congress um I think we've covered a lot of the the points that I really wanted to make sure um that uh I got across and just as I'm looking at my list uh in one way or another through the course of today's questioning I think we've gotten through most of it that concludes today's hearing we thank our witness for appearing before the committee today without objection all members will have five legislative days submit additional written questions for the witness or additional materials for the record without objection the hearing is ad joury will come excuse me the committee will come to order without objection the chair is authorized declare recess at any time we welcome everyone today's hearing on oversight of the Federal Bureau of Investigation U CH now recognizes the gentleman from Wisconsin to lead us all in the pledge of allegiance to the flag the United States of America to the repblic for it stands one nation under God liy and justice for all I want to begin today's hearing by um recognizing uh fact that we no longer have one of our great members with us uh Sheila Jackson Lee as we all know um passed away she was a dedicated public servant her service on this committee excuse me Spann nearly three decades and included jeering through countless pieces of legislation I said yesterday at subcommittee hearing that I don't know that there was any member of Congress who got more out of five minutes than Sheila Jackson Lee did and um she was just a pleasant Spirit who we all enjoyed and um we're thinking about her family we all we all certainly will uh will miss Sheila i' yield the ranking member for comments thank you Mr chairman Mr chairman this room in our hearts feel a little emptier today as we mourn the loss of our dear friend and colleague Sheila Jackson Lee in the nearly 30 years that I served with Sheila on the Judiciary Committee I witnessed her Boundless Energy her courage and her character as she lent her voice and her legislative talents to nearly every issue that came before this committee whether it was advocating for just and Humane immigration reform working to protect voting rights and preserve our civil liberties with delving into the technical details of administrative law and property intellectual property Sheila was always at the Forefront of our work Sheila made perhaps her greatest Mark serving as the chair and later ranking member of the crime subcommittee in this role she worked in a bipartisan fashion to reauthorize the violence against women act and to protect victims of trafficking among many other successes she was also leader on such issues as sentencing reform gun safety police accountability and racial Justice she'll engaged in many spirited debates but she always had the deepest respect for all of her colleagues even those of whom she vehemently disagreed she deeply loved the institution of Congress and particularly the Judiciary Committee because it gave her platform to make a meaningful impact on the lives of millions of Americans if Sheila took up a cause she could be relentless in her determination to see it through whether that meant making one extra phone call going to one more meeting offering one more Amendment or making one more speech she would not rest until she thought she had done everything she could to fight for the issues she cared about through it all she stayed true to her values and always had the people of Houston close to her heart we all better for having known her the American people are better for having had her in their corner all these years I will deeply miss my friend and colleague May her memory be a blessing he y back I want to thank the ranking member uh well said now chair recognized himself for an opening statement July 13th was a terrible day for America we all agree spirited debate fighting for what you believe in are part of what makes this country the greatest nation in the world but the First Amendment and robust political debate are not consistent in any way with violence what happened in Butler Pennsylvania was a tragedy that took the life of a good man Cory comor leaving a wife without a husband and two daughters without a father others were injured and of course former president Trump by the grace of God survived the assassination attempt there are a lot of unanswered questions about the security failures that day questions about decisions made before the rally questions about actions during the rally and questions about statements made after the event concluded prior to the rally why was the president's security detail denied requests for extra resources why weren't all the buildings secured there were a finite number of buildings that needed to be secured why wasn't that done why was the president allowed to walk out on the stage when there was a suspicious person on the property during the rally what exactly happened between 609 and 614 those critical 5 minutes we know from briefings from the director and the deputy director of the FBI and other information we've gathered that at 609 the shooter was identified on the roof at 610 the counter sniper was notified counter sniper teams were notified about the shooter 611 the shooter fired several shots injuring and killing one person injuring others at 612 the counter sniper took down the shooter and at 614 president Trump was escorted off the stage by Secret Service agents we need to know what happened play bypl Moment by moment second by second the communications that took place again during that critical 5 minutes and then finally after the rally why did both the Secret Service and Secretary of Homeland Security my orcus lie to the American people July 14th the day after the attack Secret Service spokesman Anthony gami said this quote the assertion that a member of the former president's security team requested additional security resources that the US Secret Service with the Department of Homeland Security rebuffed is absolutely false the next day secretary Maus said that is an unequivocally false assertion we had not received any requests for additional security measures that were rebuffed but 5 days later top officials repeatedly rejected requests from Donald Trump's security detail for more personnel and on the 21st of July the New York Times confirming what the Washington Post reported said quote Mr gami acknowledged that the Secret Service had turned down request for additional Federal Security ass asss for Mr Trump's detail 180 Dee change why did they initially lie to us in the days after the attack in Pennsylvania finally we hope to learn more today from director Ray about the shooter his use of the Drone the explosives that were in his car how he got on the roof and a host of other questions it is our hope that director Ray's testimony can begin to give answers to the American people about all of these questions and concerns so director we appreciate you being here and we trust that you're going to be as transparent with the committee and the country as you possibly can and I sure you understand that a significant portion of the country has a healthy skepticism regarding the FBI's ability to conduct a fair honest open and transparent investigation and that skepticism is based on what they've witnessed over the past several years the American people have seen a Biden Harris justice department they can't tell us who planted the pipe bombs on January 6 they can't tell us who leaked the do's opinion and they can't tell us who put cocaine at the White House Biden Harris justice department who raided president Trump's home Biden Harris justice department who worked with social media companies to censor Americans Biden Harris justice department who let the country believe that the hunter Biden laptop was misinformation when they knew at the time it was authentic and maybe most importantly a Biden Harris justice department who retaliated against whistleblowers who came to this committee and spoke to us about these issues last week we sent you 12 questions about what occurred on July 13th we expect you to answer those questions and the others that I've just outlined and again we thank you for being here today and appreciate your willingness to answer the questions that the committee is going to have and with that I would yield to the ranking member for an opening statement thank you Mr chairman Mr chairman two weeks ago our country witnessed a shocking assassination attempt on a presidential candidate now I dis agree with Donald Trump in almost every policy area imaginable I am frequently shocked and outraged at the plans he has for our country and the words that come out of his mouth and I have dedicated much of the last eight years to fighting his agenda but regardless of my strong feelings about Donald Trump's Behavior I unequivocally and unabashedly condemn with every fiber of my being the attempt against his life this was not just an attack on a man but an attack on our democracy political violence erodes the very foundations of our nation the concepts of freedom of speech of peaceful transitions of power of a democratic government at its core these cannot exist if political violence is allowed to fester and to go unchecked and if you think that this one assassin's bullet was a bolt out of the blue and not part of a wave of violence that has threatened this nation for years then you have Miss the point of what my Democratic colleagues and I have been imploring you to hear for some time election workers many of them working for free face near constant threats of violence in one recent instance an Indiana man pleaded guilty to threatening to kill an election worker who said that there were no irregularities in a recent election that man said quote 10 million plus Patriots will surround you when you least expect it and will exposive kill you close quote that is political violence in another instance speaker mered to Nancy Pelosi's husband was bludgeoned over the head with a ham by an intruder in his home who had been there to capture miss Pelosi interrogate her and possibly quote break her kneecaps because of her liberal views that is political violence the death threat surging against vice president Harris former President Obama and his wife Michelle and Governor DeSantis as well as many others including videos online of individuals holding guns making assassination threats that is political violence the plot to kidnap Governor Gretchen Whitmer and overthrow parts of the state government that is political violence the brutal deadly attack three years ago against this very building with riers breaking through police barriers to run through these Halls chanting kill Nancy and hang Mike Pence and even hanging a noose outside the building these riers battering Capitol police officers and forcing members of Congress and their staffs to go into hiding squatted in spaces under desks or in closets that is political violence this assassination attempt as horrific as it is should surprise no one and you would think a political party that almost lost their presidential candidate through an active political violence would have something to say about the way their leaders keep talking about the next election Donald Trump is warned there will be a quote bloodbath if he loses Republican Ohio state senator George Lang said just last week at a rally for JD van said he is quote afraid that Civil War might be necessary if Republicans lose the November election President of the right-wing Think Tank and project 2025 leader the Heritage Foundation Kevin Roberts said on Stephen bannon's podcast quote we in the process of the second American Revolution which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be close quote Republican former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin said in August of last year of Trump's indictments do you want us to be in Civil War because that's what what's going to happen we're not going to keep putting up with this we do need to rise up and take our country back close quote I could go on but it's more and more of the same and I hear nothing from the other side of the aisle in this room about these statements you support a blood beath if you don't get the election outcome you want you justify violence if the left does not agree with you and what exactly has preoccupied this Republican majority while their allies threaten violence to their political enemies real and imagined we have chased down baseless conspiracy theories designed solely to influence the 2024 election in favor of Donald Trump we have spent millions of dollars and thousands of hours of Staff time in more than 100 transcribed interviews chasing false accusations against President Biden supporting an impeachment effort that seemed designed to fail and hunting for a Smoking Gun that simply does not exist and instead of admitting that these investigations found no corruption coercion or unethical Behavior by the B Administration Republicans chose to just dig deeper and spend more money imagine what could have happened if we had spent these thousands of hours of Staff time and those millions of taxpayer dollars addressing even one aspect of the political violence that now threatens our country perhaps had this Republican majority lifted a finger to help a nation that is a washing guns the Assassin and Butler would not have had such easy access to the weapon he used to fire on that crowd director Ray your agency is responsible for addressing some of the most serious issues of our time the bureau fights gun violence which claims the lives of 40,000 Americans every year it protects election security from growing threats for mign foreign actors who are working tirelessly to influence our elections it protects against domestic terrorists and violent extremists who have been a growing threat in recent years and have carried out horrific mass shootings and deadly events around the country and so so much more I apologize to you director that instead of supporting you in these missions in the8th Congress some of my colleagues have instead hindered your work maligned your agents and called to abolish and and defund your agency or for political gain it is Despicable especially from the party that claims to quote back the blue and I know that you and your many agents and employees have paid the price for these baseless attacks I know you have faced a barrage of threats distrust and vitriol from the public as a result of these wild politically driven conspiracies I know it has become even more dangerous and difficult for you to come to work each day I may not agree with you on everything but I sincerely thank you and every employee in your agency who continues to protect our country the FBI is vital to keeping America safe and I pray that today we can focus on the real substantive work of the agency it is the least we owe our country in these times I yield back gentleman yields back without objection all other opening statements will be included in the record we will now introduce today's witness um The Honorable Christopher Ray has been the director of the FBI since 2017 he previously served as the Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division of the Department of Justice the principal associate Deputy attorney general an Associated Deputy attorney general and as assistant us attorney for the Northern District of Georgia again director way you've been here many times we appreciate you being here today uh look forward to your testimony and answering our questions we will Begin by swearing you in would you please rise and raise your right hand do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is true and correct to the best of your knowledge information and belief so help you God let the record affirm uh let the record reflect that the witness is answered in the affirmative uh thank you and please be seated we we have votes coming in about 10 minutes but we we definitely want to get through your opening statement as far as we can and this is going to be an interesting day on Capitol Hill with the prime minister of Israel here as well so director Ray you're recognized for your opening statement good morning chairman Jordan ranking member Nadler members of the committee uh I want to begin by offering my condolences on the passing representative Jackson Lee who served the people of Texas in this body and on this committee for so long thank you all for your support of our efforts to protect the American people people and uphold the Constitution I am proud to be here today representing the 38,000 special agents intelligence analysts and professional staff who make up the FBI men and women who every day work relentlessly to counter the most complex threat environment I've seen in my tenure as FBI director maybe in my entire career in law enforcement before I go any further I also want to acknowledge and offer my deepest condolences to the victims of the horrific assassination attempt in Butler County to the friends and family of Corey comparator who by all accounts lost his life protecting others from danger to the other victims two of whom were critically wounded and of course of course to president Trump former president Trump and his family as I've said from the beginning the attempted assassination of the former president was an attack on our democracy and our Democratic process and we will not and do not tolerate political violence of any kind especially a Despicable account of this magnitude and I want to assure you and the American people that the men and women of the FBI will continue to work tirelessly to get to the bottom of what happened we are bringing all the resources of the FBI to Bear both Criminal and National Security now there's a a whole lot of work underway and still a lot of work to do and our understanding of what happened and why will continue to evolve but we're going to leave no stone unturned the shooter may be deceased but the FBI's investigation is very much ongoing to that point I also want to acknowledge that I recognize both the Congressional and the public interest in this cas case and the importance of this investigation to the American people and I understand there are a lot of open questions so while the investigation is very much ongoing and our assessments of the shooter and his actions continue to evolve My Hope here today is to do my best to provide you with all the information I can given where we are at this point I have been saying for some time now that we are living in an elevated threat environment and tragically the Butler County assassination attempt is another example a particularly heinous and very public one of what I've been talking about but it also reinforces our need at the FBI and our ongoing commitment to stay focused on the threats on the mission and on the people we do the work with and the people we do the work for every day all across this country and indeed around the world world the men and women of the FBI are doing just that working around the clock to counter the threats we face just in the last year for example in California the FBI and our partners targeted an organized crime syndicate responsible for trafficking fentanyl meth and cocaine all across North America we charged the mexican-based suppliers who brought the drugs into the United States a network of Canada based truck drivers who delivered the drugs and the distributors in the United States who spread the poison into our communities staying on threats emanating from the border I have warned for some time now about the threat that foreign terrorists May seek to exploit our Southwest border or some other Port of Entry to advance a plot against Americans just last month for instance the bureau and our joint terrorism task forces worked with ice in multiple cities across the country as several individuals with suspected International terrorist ties were arrested using Isis immigration authorities leading up to those arrests hundreds of FBI employees dedicated countless hours to understand the threat and identify additional individuals of concern now the physical security of the border is of course not in the FBI's Lane but as the threat has escalated we're working with our partners in law enforcement and the intelligence Community to find and stop foreign terrorists who would harm Americans and our interests as concerning as the known or suspected terrorists encountered at the border are perhaps even more concerning are those we do not yet know about because they provided fake documents or because we didn't have information connecting them to terrorism at the time they arrived in the United States staying ahead of today's threats demands that we work together and for the FBI that means doubling down on our Partnerships especially with state and local law enforcement whether it's working through our hundreds of joint terrorism task forces uh to build Out Source networks to identify those who slip through the cracks or targeting the worst of the worst responsible for the violence that still plagues far too many communities through our Safe Streets task forces or taking the fight to the cartels responsible for trafficking the dangerous drugs like fenel pouring into our country and claiming countless American lives staying ahead of the threat also means continuing to disrupt the Cyber criminals ravaging businesses large and small and confronting nation states like China targeting our Innovation and our c critical infrastructure at the bureau we're proud to work side by side with our brothers and sisters in federal state and local law enforcement our partners in the intelligence community and others around the world to fulfill our commitment to keep Americans safe now on Friday the FBI will celebrate its 116th anniversary 116 years of protecting the American people and upholding the Constitution tion 116 years of working with our partners to safeguard the communities we serve 2016 years of innovating to stay ahead of the complex evolving and very real threats out there I am proud of the Legacy the men women of the FBI have built and all they have accomplished for the American people so if I may as we approach this week's anniversary I would just like to say to all those those who are part of the FBI family from our current employees to our forers and to our partners across law enforcement and the intelligence Community thank you thank you for dedicating your lives to this country and to its people it is both humbling and an honor to serve alongside you and I look forward to the work we're going to continue to do together and with that thank you again for having me and I look forward to our discussion thank you director Ray excuse me we'll now proceed under the five minute rule the gentleman from um North Carolina is recognized for 5 minutes thank you Mr chairman uh director Ray I'm way down here I appreciate the chairman giving me this because I've got to leave but let me ask this question why doesn't the FBI disclose to the American people all of the investigative detail and evidence that you are gathering as it is gathered well we have tried to be transparent uh with both Congress and the American people as we're going along in the investigation frankly unusually so for an ongoing investigation given the sheer nature uh of it uh we have provided a lot of information I expect to continue to provide information I expect to be able to provide some additional information here today uh in response to your questions and your colleagues uh but part of the issue uh is that as like in any investigation as we proceed facts evolve our understanding of what somebody said turns out to have more context that we didn't have before uh we have additional leads out there so part of our goal is not just to respect the ongoing investigation process but also to make sure that we don't prematurely provide information that then two days later turns out to be different than what we told people because that's very much uh you know kind of a natural part of any investigation so did Crooks Fire eight shots we have recovered uh eight cartridges on the roof why was Crooks allowed to get off eight shots well that I think is something we're still digging into um again maybe this is a good place for me to make clear uh the different investigations that are going on so because certainly I understand I and I and given that I've only got three minutes left and I know other members I'm I'm really interested because I I appreciate your invitation you said you're prepared to disclose things as questions are asked so I don't want to waste time sort of I just want to get to the questions that might in as many members as can ask questions that you'll answer I actually think you I'd be glad for you to go on Soliloquy frankly and tell us what you know I think the American people want to know why was President Trump not kept off the stage we don't know the answer to that but I want to be clear and this is important because I think it goes to questions that I can and cannot answer our investigation the FBI's mandate is focused on the shooter and all things related to his attack now obviously I understand very much the intense interest and focus on the secret Services performance actions decision-making Etc there are two separate after Action reviews the the DHS Inspector General and the outside independent panel it's been convenient to focus on that now our inv everybody understands everybody understands here's the problem we're out 13 days and you say we've been disclosing you know we had the director the colonel from the PS Pennsylvania State Police in front of Homeland yesterday he was quite candid he disclosed to us that Butler Emergency Services Unit Personnel were posted into the windows on the second floor of the AGR building that they left there to go pursue the person that they spotted Crooks that they texted a photo of crooks to the P to the uh U PSP representative in the command center that information was relayed to the United States Secret Service they asked that it be texted to someone else that was many minutes before president took Trump took the stand what we don't know is why did he not why did he why were they not keeping him off the stand and to the extent you know I know we always hear when there's a criminal investigation you got to wait for that to develop but the do you have any reason to are you do you have any other Target of your criminal investigation other than crooks who's dead we are investigating the shooter both to determine his motive U and his preparations and activities before the shooting but also to make sure uh whether or not there are any co-conspirators accomplish at this point Have You developed any evidence to so suggest that there are any complies or or Cooperators or sisters not at this time but again the investigations ongoing so here's the thing while we wait maybe for months and I hate to say this just I'm not trying to take a pot shot but we the country went for years with the understanding that the hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation as offered by respected former Intel officials and the whole time the FBI had the laptop and then let that happen in public until until finally offering testimony in a case to the degree we wait to hear as a country and as a congress what has happened in this event because the FBI is Con conducting an investigation it provides quarter for the US Secret Service not perhaps to reckon with the problems that are obvious to everyone so just get a couple in while I I've got 13 more seconds one more question perhaps uh Senator Grassley says that the records of the Day show that there was a counter unmanned aerial surveillance operator on site was there and why did that person not prevent Crooks from being able to use a drone so again questions about the secret Services performance are better directed to those other reviews what I can tell you when it comes to drones is that Kooks himself had a drone and I'm prepared to answer questions here today about the shooter and his use of the Drone for example my time's expired gentleman Yi's back to ranking members recognize for five minutes thank you Mr chairman as I said in my opening statement political violence is a scorge and entirely unacceptable no matter the source or the target last October a far-right conspiracy theorist broke into Nancy Pelosi's home and bludgeoned her husband prominent Republicans mocked the attack and promoted conspiracy theories about it last August an armed Utah man who threatened to kill President Biden was killed as FBI agents attempted to serve a warrant on him hours before President Biden landed in his State some on the right claimed that the main was simply a quote Second Amendment Enthusiast in recent weeks and months those on the right have repeatedly called for quote civil war with an Ohio state senator saying that if Republicans lose the election quote it's going to take a civil war to save the country and it will be saved the president of the Heritage Foundation likewise said that quote we are in the process of the second American Revolution tion which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be close quote director Ray it's obviously important that we respect First Amendment protections but there is clearly a point to which some violent rhetor crosses over into threats of violence or leads to actual violence could you describe how the FBI looks at this relationship between rhetoric and action and what you are seeing around the country so I appreciate the question and this is an issue that I've been talking about for some time uh you know in our view there is a right way and a wrong way under the First Amendment to express your views no matter how passionate or even angry you are and violence and threats of violence is not the right way and we don't care what you're upset about or who you're upset with when from the FBI's perspective when it turns to violence and threats of violence that's when we have to draw the line that's when we get engaged uh and there is an alarming phenomenon that we've seen over the the last several years uh of that kind of passion and heated rhetoric turning into actual violence and threats of violence we've seen it uh against public officials of All Sorts we've seen it against law enforcement the number of officers shot and killed in the line of duty in this country is frankly outrageous and alarming uh and I know that because every time an office officer is shot and killed anywhere in this country since the day I started as FBI director I personally call the chief or the sheriff to express my condolences uh and to talk to them about the the victim's family uh and the number of those shootings that are Ambush related meaning somebody is targeting law enforcement because they're law enforcement is particularly alarming I have made around 400 of those phone calls it's almost every five days that a law enforcement officer is killed in the line of duty and that is an example of the kind of ways in which uh passions and heated rhetoric can bubble over into violence thank you members of Congress their families and their staffs have witnessed an alarming Rising threats against them I appreciate the work your agency has done to investigate and address these threats but I'm concerned that we do not seem to be stemming the tide what is the FBI doing to ensure that members of Congress their families and their staffs are safe so we have a very close relationship uh with the Capitol Police um and we have members of the Capitol Police for example who are on some of our task forces we share intelligence information uh about things that we're seeing trends that we're seeing with capital police uh and others in law enforcement obviously if we have specific information about uh an effort to Target a member of Congress then we're getting with Capitol Police in a much more specific way uh but those are some of the things that we're doing thank you now director your office is leading the investigation to the attempted assassination of Donald Trump republicans in Congress including members of this committee have repeatedly called for defunding the FBI what impact would defunding or even just limiting your funding have on the FBI's ability to conduct this in other investigations so I understand that there are heated views opinions about us just like there are about every institution in today's America but cutting our funding is incredibly shortsighted and the people really hurts our state and local law enforcement and the American people were all sworn to protect thank you during my remaining time I want to turn to a different matter in recent days Republican members of Congress have attacked presumptive Democratic Presidential nominee Camala Harris as a quote Dei Dei candidate which presumably is code for women and person of color it's not a new theme for them in May chairman Jordan wrote to you claiming that because of Dei initiatives the FBI is no longer hiring quote the best and brightest candidates to fill the position of Special Agent with the remaining time with my remaining time director can you please answer the following questions is it true that hiring women and people of color means that FBI is no longer hiring the best and the brightest to serve as Law Enforcement Officers is there any evidence that women and people of color are less effective in law enforcement roles and what message does it sent to prospective applicants when the leaders demean them and make judgments about them based solely on the race of agender witness May respond so any notion that we have lowered our standards our hiring standards is just not accurate uh in fact the our standards are as competitive and selective as ever we have tens of thousands of people applying and our selection rate is about 3.1% which is more selective than just about any University in the country uh and most of our applicants I think like something like 50% of them are coming from military or law enforcement backgrounds about 50% of them also have advanced degrees uh the average age is around 31 which means they're bringing a wealth of personal and professional experience when they arrive and to suggest that those people because of efforts related to diversity or anything like that uh are less qualified frankly is not at all consistent with what I see having visited all of our field offices and seeing these young people in action I think is an insult to those hardworking men and women who've signed up to dedicate their lives for this country thank you director Yi back gentleman Yi's back director let me go back to where Mr B Bishop was tell me about the Drone you act like you wanted to fill us in on that fill us in so uh we have recovered a drone uh that the shooter uh appears to have used uh it's being exploited and analyzed by the FBI lab uh the Drone was recovered uh in his vehicle so at the time of the shooting the Drone was in his vehicle uh with the controller uh in addition our investigation has uncovered do you know what time of day he flew it and if he flew it on the day of I'm so in addition it appears that around uh 3:50 p.m. 4:00 in that window uh on the day of the shooting uh that the shooter was flying the Drone around uh the area about 11 minutes I want to be clear but when I say the area not over the the stage and that part of the area itself I would say about 200 yards give or take away from that we we think but we do not know so again this is one of these things that's qualified because of our ongoing review that he was live streaming you know viewing the footage from that again about 11 minutes in around the 35 4:00 p.m. range two hours before he's flying a drone in the in the vicinity of of the about 200 yards away yard okay that's that's important information what about the bombs that we've heard about in in the in the shooters car so again uh the FBI lab is exploiting those uh explosive devices there were uh We've recovered three devices two uh in his vehicle and one back in his residence um are these are these what you would call your experts would call sophisticated operations or this I mean I think I I don't know that's what I've been told by people who have some understanding of this area yeah I I I think it's um we've seen more sophisticated and less I would say these are relatively again keyword relatively crude devices themselves but they did have um the ability to be detonated remotely and so to that point in addition to the two devices that we recovered out of his vehicle um there were uh receivers for those two explosive devices with the devices and then on the shooter himself uh when he was killed by law enforcement uh he had a transmitter with him now I do want to add one important Point here was at the moment it looks to us again ongoing review and I can't say that too many times at a moment it looks like because of the uh onoff position on the receivers that that if he had tried to detonate those devices from the roof it would not have work but that doesn't mean the explosives weren't dangerous and I'm sure we're going to get into all these subjects a little bit later as well uh tell us tell us what you can about the encrypted platforms we've heard about so um one of the things that we're drilling into too hard with the shooter um in an effort to try to learn more about his State of Mind his motive his ideology his context everything else is to look at all of his devices any social media accounts he had Etc and uh one of the things we've learned in finally getting into his phone which was also a significant technical Challenge from an encryption perspective but in addition once we got on the phone it turned out he was using some encrypted messaging applications and again the same question uh relative to the bombs is this was this pretty sophisticated or is this this is the kind of the norm you see with folks like you know similar situation how would you on this on this subject I would say this has unfortunately now become very commonplace and it's a real challenge for not just the FBI but state and local law enfor all over the tell me exactly the scope of does the scope of your investigation include what I what I call that critical five minutes from when the 609 when this is based I think on information you've given to Congress 609 when the shooters identified on the roof in 614 when President Trump was ultimately escorted off and all that happens the shots that take place in between there do you have access to the communications that were going on at the time in that critical five minutes so uh our our investigation when you say scope our investigation includes that time frame although focused again on the shooter himself and involved that he's obviously involved in that time frame correct and as part of that as part of our focus our investigation of the shooter and and the attack uh of course we are interviewing law enforcement from the scene because those are some of the most significant Witnesses and we're obviously getting access to their materials and that kind of thing and the Secret Service fully Cooperative ACC you you have access to the communications that exist there that exact question I don't as I sit here at the moment I don't know the exact answer to that question but I know that secret service has been Cooperative with us the Congress would like access to those Communications as well I mean not just at five minutes although I think that's the critical time frame lots of communications we'd love to have access as well I see my time is up and they have called votes on the floor I think there are about six minutes left in votes so we will committee will stand in recess until approximately 10 minutes after votes conclude on the house floor committee will come to order the chair recognize the gentle lady from California for five minutes uh thank you Mr chairman and thank you director Ray for being here with us today before I uh ask anything let me just uh Echo the comments made by others especially the ranking member decrying uh the state of political violence in this country it's completely unacceptable uh we have a democratic system that allows for us to disagree but not to take those disagreements uh to violence that's what we have elections for and I want to also thank you and uh all of the FBI uh for the work that you do and frankly the abuse unwarranted abuse and criticism that have been directed to you by conspiracy theorists and others doesn't make your hard job any easier and I want you to know that many of us notice that and appreciate the work that you and your team are doing uh let me just ask a a couple of quick questions first many of us are interested in the motives of uh the shooter here um you when when it's a an assault on a political figure you immediately assume there's a political motive and that may be the case here we don't know yet but I was interested in what you're seeing on uh his his phone the Press has reported that he had pictures not only of Mr Trump but of Mr Biden and various other members political figures can you discern was there a you know an element of you know mainly Republicans maybe Democrats was it all over the board can you Enlighten us about that well this is a place where it's particularly important for me to reiterate the caveat that I've included before because in this instance in particular we have a lot of legal process out for additional uh accounts and things like that um that the shooter is associated with so we're hoping to learn more and we're still exploiting a number of the digital devices um I think it's fair to say that we do not yet have a clear picture of his motive and I think it's important for me to explain because I understand of course why everybody wants to know the answers to those questions often in an investigation from interviewing uh people that the subject was in close contact with looking at the individuals subject social media accounts messages often things physical evidence in the person's residence you might see a Manifesto things like that we're not seeing that yet um but we are digging in hard because this is one of the central questions for us what I can say is that uh the shooter appears to have uh done a lot of searches of public figures in general but so far we're seeing kind of news articles and things like that and so the images that have been reported about really what we're talking about there are when you when you do a news search of an article see the image appears in the cach as opposed to like a search for that specific individual uh but again I really want to be clear that that's a place that we're doing a lot of work right now and some more to come on that well I thank you for that clarification we're interested also in um the role of access to weapons uh when it comes to this terrible crime the shooter used a semi-automatic rifle really a weapon of war that sadly has also been used in mass shootings around the country including in my own District it seems to me that the assault weapons ban that was once in place has to be a part of the national answer to curbing the epidemic of gun violence in America I wonder uh if you could with your help director Ray understand a few aspects of the investigation it's my understanding that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco firearms and explosives ATF was quickly able to trace the gun the gun uh the gun's purchaser using records from an outof business gun store records that the government is r re required to correct some of my colleagues on the other side of the a have suggested that collection should stop there have been efforts to digitize it which have been resisted can you tell us about how the the origin of this gun purchase was discovered and uh the technology used what I well I guess what I can say is um the uh we located a number of firearms uh associated with the shooter and his family uh I think it was a total of I think 14 in the house um the uh weapon that he used uh for the attempted assassination uh was an AR style rifle uh that was purchased legally uh that he um is my understanding uh acquired I think bought actually from his father who was the one who originally bought it uh again legally thank you Mr chairman my time has expired so I yield back gent lady Yi's back gentlemen from California's recogniz thank you uh director I'll try to ask questions that that are answerable too I think that's been done pretty well on both sides uh you do the advanced threat assessment and deliver that information as to the general threat and then specifics as to protected people to the Secret Service is that correct well sort of uh the Secret Service does a threat assessment but they're doing that based on intelligence that they receive from a number of sources including of course the FBI so we share whenever we have thread information related to a particular individual or protecte and we share it with the secret service at a number of levels so you're a participant But ultimately the responsibility for threat assessment as to these individuals belongs to the Secret Service well again the threat assessment for the individual belongs to the secret service but we are an important part part of that because we share threat information if we have any uh they get threat information from a variety of sources so and and you get them from that same variety of sources they they've got no sources that are ex excluded from the FBI do they well not I don't know I'm not aware any that are excluded from the FBI but they may receive information that comes directly to them that didn't come to us sure okay uh director do you believe that former president Trump was a a high-risk threat under your assess well I I believe that former president Trump uh can really frankly like any president or former president is a very high profile figure and attracts a lot of unfortunately the kind of thre we've been talking about it's fair to say not on a scale of one to a million with little nuances but on a scale of 1 to 10 president Trump's risk was very similar to a current president very similar to because he was the presumptive nominee and uh leading in the polls and so on that that uh that he was a high risk by any standard is that correct certainly there's a reason why he has so much protection around him okay uh Robert F Kennedy Jr the son of assassinated Senator and the nephew of an assassinated President would you say he was also as a presidential candidate at significant risk again I think any presidential candidate that raises some level of risk it might vary from Canada no but it's clearly a risk okay um so uh in a nutshell the day before this attack president Trump was documented not to have gotten on multiple occasions from the Secret Service what they asked for the day after it looks like they're getting more the day before RFK had been denied by the president multiple times Secret Service protection the day after he now has it so now my question is is the actions of a 20year old with a lone gunman on a roof sufficient to change the risk assessment in your mind for president Trump and RFK or are we just realizing the threat that was always there and being more appropriate in matching it and and I know that's a little vague but but you've been at this for a long time hindsight is 2020 now that we have hindsight is it fair to say that giving Robert F Kennedy Jr security upping the security including drones overhead support for the president former president these are all things that in hindsight should have been done the day before well let me try to answer your question this way of course as I said you know the assessments of the level of security to be provided to individual protection no no I understand it's a secret service decision but what I would say to you uh is that and I've been saying for quite some time uh including in front of Committees of this Congress that we are in an elevated threat we have been for some time uh and that comes from a variety of quarters uh it is a it is quite frankly a dangerous time to be a prominent public official in in regards to that the other side has spent a lot of time talking about what people on the right have said but there was an attempted assassination on the Supreme Court Justice we have had the highest ranking Senator on the other side of this body uh saying that there were actions that they were accountable we have had multiple members of Congress in both the house and the Senate uh berating the the character of uh members of the Supreme Court as a result of their uh uh their their decisions made both you know sometimes 63 sometimes unanimous whatever are those comments not any one of them but are those comments and the generation of that sort of oh this guy's bad for democracy this this Supreme Court Justice is a threat to democracy is that the kind of thing that raises the Threat Level and would you caution against that well I I do believe that uh we've seen an increase in threats of violence which again that's the FBI's Lane not rhetoric no matter how Despicable or heated it is but violence and threats of violence we have seen an uptick in threats towards judges among other prominent public officials including as you say a case that we helped investigate involving a threat to a sitting Supreme Court Justice um an attempt an attempt yeah thank you right um and uh I think it's a reflection of a broader phenomenon that we are seeing in this country uh where people again very passionate I respect that very angry I respect that but there's a right right way and a wrong way to express yourself when you're angry and and violence and threats of violence just can't be it and that's where we fit in we it's not my role as FBI director to call out you know particular people's rhetoric there's a place for that um but that's that's not my role as FBI director but but when it turns to violence and threats of violence that is has to be treated as unacceptable and that's the way we look at it thank you Mr chairman I yield back director when the FBI learned that Iran was threatening president Trump's life so I want to I want to be a little bit careful here not talk about specific classified information but um we have been for quite some time uh and I'll stick with what's in the open record we for some time and I in particular for some time have been calling out uh the efforts by the Iranian government to attempt to retaliate for the uh the killing of solomani by going after uh current or former prominent us officials and we've even had an indictment against it and I think that we need to recognize the brazenness of the Iranian regime including right here in the United States and I expect that we're going to see more of it and I expect there'll be more coming on that I'm not aware of any threat information uh related to protect EAS that wasn't you know passed in a timely way but I can't can't really get into specifics here it's it it's minority's time here but I I just felt that was a question the committee need to understand and and it sounds like you've known that for a long Secret Service any information related to threats against uh the former president which again as we've sort of talked about is um happens all too often is something that we have a whole process that we routinely share with secret service at a number of levels in a timely way and to my knowledge that has consistently been followed from Georgia is recognized thank you Mr chairman uh thank you for being here director Ray um director Ray the FBI is the independent law enforcement agency under the Department of Justice is that correct yes and does the FBI director currently uh report to [Music] anyone well uh you mean in a chain of Comm and Reporting structure kind of thing yeah so um the FBI is part of the justice department uh on the or chart you would see that the FBI director and this has been true for decades reports to the deputy attorney general who reports to the attorney general obviously reports in a communication sense I I report to any number of people as opposed to a micromanagement reporting system uh correct and you would take issue would you not with any proposal that would change or alter that chain of command and place you or place a uh FBI director in the position of reporting directly to the president would you not you would oppose that I I don't think that would be a wise reporting structure um I think the structure that we've had for decades now uh makes sense um I think there's a difference between Independence uh in a sort of organizational structure perspective and Independence in terms of the way you do the work obviously FBI is part of the justice department we reporting directly to the president would um uh eliminate uh your Independence would it not I don't think it would help yeah and you're familiar with uh project 2025 are you not I mean I've seen you know news reports about it I'm not familiar with it you aware that it is a game plan for president Trump's first 120 days in office correct I I'm really not familiar with the details I I've seen rep about it is it is and uh what he proposes to do is to force the FBI director to Appo uh to uh report directly to him that's what he wants to do within the first 12 20 days he also wants to eliminate the U position of FBI general counsel that is also set forth in Project 2025 how would you recommend that I think the FBI's office of General Council serves an incredibly important role including uh in terms of advising our Workforce we have 38,000 people the idea of having uh an organization like ours an independent law enforcement agency like ours that doesn't have its own General council's off office doesn't make sense to me well it would seem like any proposal that would force the director to report the to the president and then uh there would be no legal counsel for the uh director of the FBI that that that uh seems like it's an attempt to neuter the FBI and and render it uh uh accountable only to the president isn't that correct well let me put it this way I I recognize that the FBI director this FBI director and FB FBI director before me serves at the pleasure of the president uh and that's part of our system um I was appointed by President Trump um I respect that that I think that's a part of our structure but Independence in terms of how we do our work is what matters to me and we need to be able to do our work in a way that is free from Poli IAL well you wouldn't be able to do that by reporting everything you do to the president and getting his authority and approval before you take action correct I don't think that would be a wise approach and then there's even a proposal to replace many of those 38,000 uh dedicated uh civil servants who work for the FBI replace them with a Maga group that has pledged its allegiance to Donald Trump what danger would that bring to the FBI if that were to happen well again I I haven't read or reviewed this thing that you're referring what I say is but the FBI is made up of the FBI is made up of 38,000 dedicated career law enforcement professionals it has no political appointees of any kind unless you count me as a Nomine for I don't think that should change I think ACH part our work being being the employees of the FBI we're coming up on 116 years of the FBI and that's the way it has been for6 it would be crazy to take 38,000 magga loyalist and put them at the FBI that's frightening that's what project 2025 proposes and I'm glad to know that you are um not with uh that program and with that I Y back gentlemen y's back gentlem from Florida is recognized was the shooter on the FBI's radar in any way prior to the assassination attempt we did not have any information uh about the shooter he was not in our Holdings um before the shooting no communication in any chat rooms no CIS or confidential human sources have any interaction with no we've run a a thorough search uh for the subject through all of our Holdings and and he was not in them anywhere were there any FBI agents or informants present at the Trump rally in Butler not to my knowledge okay uh and Mr Jordan was talking to you about Iran were law enforcement resources diverted from the protection of President Trump to John Bolton as a consequence of concern that Mr Bolton might have been the target of of Iranian uh malign efforts uh that's really a secret service decision I don't I don't know the answer to that uh that's really something they would know better what I can tell you is that um there are a number of individuals you mentioned one who we've brought a case uh a specific criminal case for the Iranians targeting for assassination but how the are you going are you going to get that answer to us whether or not resources were diverted from Trump to Bolton is that just going to be part of your review I think that's going to be part of the reviews by the inspector the Inspector General Inspector General for DHS right of DHS and the and the outside pan I think that's an important point because the Inspector General for DHS has really fallen out of favor with the administration because he's been pointing out all the problems on the border with my orcus and Biden and we're always kind of worried that they're about to fire him which would be a really bad idea now that this role that you've identified is is so critical be be a bad idea to fire the IG for DHS during the pendency of this right Mr director I don't think that would be a good idea I'm I'm with you on that so I want to zoom out a little bit how often do you brief President Biden uh you mean on this speciic case no in your role as FBI direct I mean I I don't know that I could give you a number I've is it like weekly monthly daily it's it's not it's not at a regular Cadence there have been times when there have been months at a time when I haven't and then there have been times when several days apart I have um it's always with other people uh the vice president is she typically there uh often has been okay so so when did you notice his decline uh in my interactions in my role uh all my interactions with the current president have been completely professional right but I mean his the cognitive decline I don't saying he treated you unprofessionally just maybe not picking things up as quickly as he used to again I I don't meet with him very often uh but what you're describing is not something that I've observed during my interactions with it I mean we' we've had it observed so often that the ranking member and Mr Schiff on this committee have said that he could no longer continue as a candidate and so since you're the FBI director I was just sort of wondering like who's running the country something if something yeah so if something bad happened you'd have to go brief President Biden about it right now God forbid and I on any number of occasions I have briefed the president and as I said those briefings have all been uneventful and unremarkable oh I I I could imagine them being uneventful um the but but in in the work where the vice president's also present like you say there's like more than half the time there's these briefings she's there too I don't know if I said more than half the time certainly there have been times where she's been present there have been other times where she hasn't I take you at your word when you say this is the most complicated threat environment you've ever observed over a long career in law enforcement and I'm just kind of wondering with this assassination attempt with the invasion at our border with all the Hamas that have been LED in that you've talked about and briefed about like is Biden up to it and if he's not up to it and you're a guy who's been regularly briefing him like who who's been in on this conspiracy to hide the real Joe Biden from all of us for years it never occurred to you that this guy wasn't up to it in all these briefings you did as I said my briefings with the president have all been completely fine um were they between a questions hasn't been anything of note in the area that you're talking about yeah did did you ever have to brief him before 10:00 a.m. or after 400 p.m. we hear those are as good hours I can't I certainly times that I have briefed have included outside those hours right okay I just you know I I think the American people want to know how we got to this point with someone who's very so diminished his own party has basically put him out to pasture and since you had close proximity and the vice president had close proximity I'm just kind of wondering if uh if you were being straight with all of us about how things were going with him I guess we'll have to figure that out you can count on me to be straight with you sir we'll see gentleman Yi's back gentleman from Tennessee is recognized thank you firstly I'd like to recognize unfortunately the fact that our colleague and my colleagues side by side made for many many years in this committee Sheila Jackson Lees no longer with us she was a great member and a force for America and our losses Bel and great secondly I'd like to say to the FBI director that there were some remarks made when you were introduced preempt remarks saying that people don't have great faith in the FBI and etc etc etc I have great faith in the FBI and I think most of us on this side of the aisle do we appreciate your work and you appreciate you're being here some on the other side of the aisle have cast dispersions upon the FBI and upon law enforcement if they don't want to support law enforcement that's their business but I support law enforcement and the FBI is the top rank of law law enforcement our country so I thank you and and all of your people that work with you secondly there's been some questions about the FBI may be being weaponized did President Biden ever ask you to get involved in the case in Orlando Florida where Kevin McCarthy says that Mr Gates is investigated for some sexual involvement with a 17-year-old girl did did the president or anybody in the Democratic party as Mr McCarthy has suggested weaponized you and tried to get you involved in that case no sir good thank you I just wanted to make sure of that um Butler Pennsylvania I read something about a ladder he used a ladder to get up up on that roof and that the ladder was found somewhere a distance away is that true uh so we do know that he purchased a ladder um uh I think if I recall correctly it was about a 5 foot uh tall type of ladder uh but importantly we did not find the ladder at the seen uh so it's not clear that he used the ladder uh to get on top of the roof you think we're still digging into all that uh things related to the ladder and his access to the roof but he did buy a ladder but the ladder was not found at the the scene ladder didn't have any feet on it it didn't walk off right thank you sir there have been a lot of threats against public officials we've seen Mr scalesa terribly shot and we' saw Gabby gford shot and other Congress people in the many of us have had death threats and the FBI has I been made aware of those to help protect us and I appreciate that greatly but we've also had election officials and pole workers threatened what is the FBI doing in consultation with other law enforcement to ensure every eligible voter can safely and confid confidently cast a ballot this year so when it comes to threats to election workers in particular uh you know we participate in the election threats task force that doj set up uh we also uh and there have been a number quite a number already of arrests and convictions under that task force uh we have got a number of Investigations underway that involve all kinds of threats to election workers ranging from online threats to uh there was even some mailings that included fenel uh so there's been a number of types of threats to election workers and these are after all people who are putting in their own time for the good of the country to try to help us have a functioning democracy and so the idea that they would be targeted with violence uh is just outrageous uh we are sharing information with uh election officials uh about things to be on the lookout for we have election crime coordinators and all 50 you'll be prepared for election day with additional FBI will be looking out for yes thank you thank you um Jeffrey Epstein um been in the news a lot lately about involvement with certain people high in politics and involved did the FBI conduct the raid on his uh townhouse in New York when he was uh incarcerated in uh New York there was a raid on his East Side townhouse well I don't know about a raid I I I know we executed a number of searches in the course of our fairly extensive investigation related you tell me during that search if you came across and have within your the possession of the FBI tapes of him with other individuals that he might have taken in and compromising yeah I don't I don't know that there's anything I can share related to that I can see if there's information we could provide and maybe get back to you on it um if there were tapes of people in prominent positions friends of his he posts for pictures with possibly in compromising positions it would be the public I think has a right to see those well I mean how we handle evidence recovered in a criminal investigation uh has all kinds of rules that apply to it uh I recognize the intense public interest in the subject but we have to follow follow our rules but I'm happy like I said I'm happy to follow with my team on it thank you sir and I appreciate your service and uh and thank you for being here today gentleman yield the last five chair now recognize the gentleman from Arizona thank you m thank you Mr chairman thank you director Ray for being here how many shots did the shooter fire well we we know that he fired at least eight because we recovered eight cartridges on the roof okay and are all the the cartridges and the unspent bullets have they been you know how many there are you've accounted for all of those I assume yeah we believe we have we believe we have again there's was lots of work still ongoing but yes we believe we have accounted and did the recovered shells the cartridges match the shooter's rifle my recollection is yes and you conducted analysis that confirms that uh well we work with ATF but yes so so some of the work has been divided up but and uh how many shells uh casings were recovered from the location of the counter snipers I'm sorry I couldn't hear the last part uh from the counter snipers location uh that I don't have the answer at least here at my fingertips okay um would did The Blood and Tissue pattern of the shooter did it match the stories or the the witness testimony that you've heard so far can you uh well I'm not sure I'm following the the question well you I assume you've interviewed the counter snipers you have that evidence and other Witnesses describing uh the the the kill of the shooter um and I'm wondering if the The Blood and Tissue and brain matter is consistent with the testimony that you're receiving in other words it's the F terms of the manner of death exactly it's the physical evidence consistent with where the shot from the Place yeah so um so the autopsy is being handled by uh as Is Not Unusual the state authorities uh my understanding is uh thus far I don't think it's fully complete uh which is not again not totally unusual uh but so far uh nothing remarkable uh on that on that front that's that's from the body itself but from actually the scene where the shooter was found is everything consistent with the testimony the phys iCal evidence at the scene is that consistent with the testimony you've seen that you've heard so far uh so far yes again ongoing investigation were you able to determine whether the shooter took the gun uh up with him when he climbed up to the top of the roof or was it already placed there somewhere so that is something that we're drilling into right now uh that we don't know the answer to yet I can tell you which may be relevant though to your question that um and I don't think this is been reported yet that the uh weapon had a collapsible stock which could explain uh why it might have been less easy for people to observe you know because one of the things that we're finding is people have observed him the first people to observe him with the weapon were when he was already on the roof and we haven't yet found anybody with firsthand uh observation of him with the weapon walking around beforehand so that doesn't mean he wasn't obviously but but the collapsible stock is is potentially a very significant feature that might be relevant to that did he have a scope I I believe so but I just as I sit here right now I don't remember okay um you you mentioned uh about two hours before the incident that that he'd had a drone and he was using a drone i instead of me putting words in your mouth just tell me what how you discovered the Drone how you discovered that the time um and what how you discovered if you can describe what he would have been observing with the Drone and how you determined that please so this is a something that's uh very much ongoing right now we're going back and forth with our lab as they continue to do work on it what I would say is the Drone was in his car uh as I said we've been able to by exploiting the Drone uh determine you know its use and flight paths there were no uh pictures or videos on the Drone of uh of the day of the rally for example but we have been able to to reverse engineer the flight path of the Drone from the day of the rally and that's how we know that for about 11 minutes from I think it's around 3:50 p.m. to 4 P.M somewhere in that range he was flying the Drone and we have the flight path it's about 200 yards away from where former president Trump would ultimately be speaking U and so that would have primarily given him aant Vantage Point um trying to think how to describe this if if the former president's Podium was that way yeah the Drone would be uh over here looking you know say 200 yards again off this way looking back so it would have shown the shooter we think again this we're still doing more work on this I really want to qualify what I'm saying but I'm trying to be transparent and lean in here we think it would have shown him uh kind of what would have been behind him when you say behind him behind the the shooter correct like in other words almost like giving him a rear viw mirror of the the scene behind him except again he wasn't flying it overhead while he was later back because the stage I assume was already set he'd been able to assess that angle with the rooftop as well forward and backward I assume well certainly going towards the towards the podium again we're still trying to figure out exactly what he talk because we're having to in effect because there's no recording of what he saw during those 11 minutes you know our hypothesis at this point the experts think he would have been live streaming it and so we're trying to in effect say okay if this was the flight pattern given these capabilities of the Drone what would you have seen what could you have seen for those 11 minutes and again it's it wasn't over the the stage or the the kind of the Hub of the rally about 200 yards away but it would looks like it would have been looking let's say you know length of a football field or so more you know kind of towards towards the the podium great thank you Mr how many separate times was the shooter on the premises uh so again with the caveat that were continued to do work on it we we believe that the first time he traveled to the the grounds uh was I think a week before uh and he spent roughly 20 minutes there uh then he went to the grounds again uh on the morning of the event it appears uh for about 70 minutes I think but again I I qualify that I'd have to go back and look to be sure of that part um and then if he came back in the afternoon so that would be I guess a third time um for good uh but that included uh things like this drone activity we just talked about gentleman from uh California recognized thank you Mr chairman um director thank you for for appearing thank you for the extraordinary job that you're doing uh please convey our thanks to the men and women at the Bureau for their incredible work um I've worked with them since I was an assistant us attorney uh more than 30 years ago um let me start with a threshold question I'm curious about um when I applied to be an assistant us attorney I had to go through a background check um do candidates for the FBI have to go through background checks yes uh would someone with dozens of F any convictions survive a background check for the bureau no so they would never be hired by The Bureau no um well clearly the bureau has you don't have to comment on this I know you won't but clearly the bureau has higher standards for their hiring than one of America's great political parties um let me turn to the events of the the tragic shooting um have you been able to gain access to the shooters electronic communications uh social media and with the caveats that you mentioned that the investigation is still early have you been able to make any deductions or um are there any indications of the shooters motivation from those electronic uh Holdings so in terms of our ability to access it we have uh been able to um get into and exploit a number of electronic devices digital devices but not all of them yet and then within uh his various accounts we've been able to get access to some of them but some of them we're still waiting on some of them we may never get access to because of the encryption issue uh that it presents an increasingly uh vexing barrier for law enforcement not just the FBI but for law enforcement all over the country uh but so we're still drilling into that uh we have some information some places we've been able to look some places we will be able to look some places we may never be able to see no matter how good our legal process is but that's what we're looking at right now in terms of what we've been able to find so far a lot of the usual uh repositories of information have not yielded um anything notable in terms of motive uh or like ideology having said that it does appear fairly clear uh that he was interested in public figures kind of more broadly and and I think this is important that uh starting uh somewhere around uh July 6th or so he became very focused on uh former president Trump on this rally um and so one of the things that I can share here today that has not been shared yet is that we've just in the last couple days uh found that from our review to your point about devices uh analysis of a laptop that the investigation ties to the shooter uh reveals that on July 6th he did a Google search for quote how far away was Oswald from Kennedy um and so that's a search obviously is significant in terms of his state of mind um we that is the same day that it appears that he registered for the butler rally and when you say that his uh electronic Holdings indicated an interest in different public figures without uh revealing anything you're not comfortable revealing about those public figures can you tell us anything generally about them um either the offices they hold their political party or was it simply people of a high profile uh well a couple things first the um the images that we've recovered so far from I can't remember which of his various devices were appear to be what we call cached images from searches of news articles so if you do a news article search of course image you if there are photos on it those photos get stored automatically in your cache as opposed to me searching or him searching for a specific person and getting up images of that person uh as far as the pictures that are like that there's doesn't seem to be a whole lot of Rhyme or Reason to it so far other than these are you know all prominent public people but they they cover both parties they cover both um uh us people and even some foreign uh public officials uh so that part doesn't appear to that that one repository of information doesn't appear to be overly indicative of motive other than interest in in public figures but that could be just because he was reading news stories so we're still trying to drill into that that's why all these outstanding uh legal process returns that we're waiting on for various accounts platforms Etc you know any one of them could be a one that would have very indicative very important information if I could be permitted one very short additional question chairman uh from that any indication of any other particular Target that is someone who uh was not just sort of generically the subject of the searches you described but for which there was more of an interest than others there's the information I just described at the moment does not appear prly indicative of targeting um in its own right uh but again that dot once we get other information could connect in a way that might be more meaningful but uh I really I'm sharing that piece of information with this committee and with the American public but I think it's important that we put down a qualification this does not appear to be some kind of Target list or something like that this is cached images from running searches of news stories um and again there's nothing at the moment that there's no pattern from that particular piece of information that is overly remarkable so far thank you thank you chairman G y's back gentleman from California is recognized Mr director you previously told us that you consider the situation on the southern border to be a massive security threat to our country is is that still your assessment I I stand by my prior testimony and in fact um just uh in the last uh month or so um we've you know conducted a significant uh series of arrests I say we our joint terrorism task force is working with ice of a number of individuals uh with suspected International terrorism ties and I have also been very vocal about the fact that U since and this is really since the last time I appeared uh before you uh that we are increasingly concerned about the possibility not just of a of a foreign terrorist inspired attack which is very much very much a concern but the even the potential for a coordinated foreign terrorist attack perhaps like what we've seen uh against the concert hall in Russia for example but just here in the United States well the the the the 19 suicide bombers overstate visas were responsible for 3,000 American deaths on on 911 what's your best estimate of the number of foreign terrorists who are now in our country I don't I mean I don't know that I could give you that number uh what I can tell you is uh we have lots of foreign terrorism related investigations uh but that doesn't mean that all of them came in you know illegally or anything anything like that it seems to me the the the simplest Act of terrorism would be for for uh dozens of of GR Gill is to attack low security highdensity venues for example Friday night High School football games all across the country at the same hour uh with bombs and automatic uh uh weapons that would produce thousands of casualties from coast to coast in a matter of minutes uh How likely is such a scenario well what you're describing uh would require of course a lot of coordination uh but what I will tell you and I think you're on to a particularly important point from my perspective which is that uh unlike the 911 attacks which again I was in FBI headquarters on the day of 9911 and so I remember it vividly and I've spent plenty of time in the period after that in my prior positions engaged with the families and the victims but uh what we're seeing more and more with the foreign terrorist threat and frankly also the domestic uh terrorism threat is a focus on kind of like what you're talking about what I would call soft targets which is really for the American people's benefit just intelligence community speak for where everyday people live their everyday lives what terrorist groups have now infiltrated our country that you're tracking well in I don't know that I would say infiltrated we have uh investigations as we speak that relate to Isis and its Affiliates we have investigations as we speak that relate to Al-Qaeda we have investigations as we speak that relate to al-shabab we have investigations as we speak that relate to U the Iranian proxies Hezbollah uh and so the frankly even the irgc cuds force itself what what foreign criminal uh gangs uh are now in our country that you're most concerned with well foreign criminal gangs I mean I we obviously have investigations a lot of Investigations into you know gangs like ms3 for example uh and some of its counterparts uh although I think if you were to talk to most Chiefs and sheriffs like I'm doing every week uh we shouldn't underestimate uh how prevalent neighborhood gangs are really it's a lot of the gang violence that I'm concerned about those that we've allowed in through the southern border and what threat they are now posing uh uh do you believe that the vetting performed at the Southwest border is adequate to ensure uh that aliens with terrorists or or criminal gang ties are not being released into the United States well I it's not really me is for me to speak to the vetting what I would tell you is that uh you have to deal with it once they're released in the United States and and one of the concerns that I have uh which I touched on briefly in my opening um is there's been a lot of focus on the number of known or suspected terrorists encountered at the border and that number has increased over the last five or six years and that should be of concern but frankly to me the bigger concern is individuals who who weren't uh either weren't on the watch list at the time they came in because there wasn't information known yet that ties them to terrorism and it's only after they get in that some new piece of information develops somewhere overseas and now we know that's we've been warned that that they basically vet against a blank sheet of paper if they they don't have a record in this country uh border patrol probably doesn't have uh any any record they're releasing in the country and you find out later of of the dangers or or if they use fake documents and there aren't Biometrics to to uh you know connect them you know sometimes I think sometimes there are people who come in who because of the nature of the threat information that put somebody on the watch list there wasn't you know fingerprints from the person at the time because not every piece of intelligence comes with fingerprints so then the guy comes in using fake ID and of course and there's no reason to connect them and of course the 2 million Goda ways you know absolutely nothing about well I don't I don't know about absolutely nothing because we may come across them in other things I mean one of the key parts of our Collective defense here uh is that we work with 800,000 uh sworn law enforcement across the country and we train them on the right questions to ask and things like that so that we can build in additional eyes and ears if they you know do a traffic stop or whatever happens to be we run a greater chance of leveraging all that to pick up people who may have slipped through the cracks gentem you back the gentleman from California is recognized director we're about a 100 days until the election Russia has attacked our democracy in past elections are they seeking to do it in this one uh we assess that the Russian government continues to want to influence uh and in various ways interfere with our democracy uh with our electoral process in fact uh just in the last few weeks we announced a significant disruption of a uh generative AI enhanced uh social media you know bot Farm essentially of the Russians uh that was design designed to be an influence operation uh and some of the fake fictitious profiles of uh of those Bots reported to be us persons so they're still at it uh we've seen that in election cycle after election cycle do the Russians have a preferred candidate uh I'm not sure that I could speak to that uh here but certainly what I would tell you is it's not just the Russians uh and I think that's important for people to know too there's a lot of attention to the Russians as there should be um but we also know uh you may recall that uh in 2020 uh director ratliffe and I announced uh an effort by the Iranians to try to interfere and more recently we've had indictments uh related to China 34 Chinese MPS officers creating fictitious personas posting false information online uh full of narratives designed to sew devic in this Discord undermine us and I'm talking about narratives that they were pushing again purporting to be Americans but actually Chinese NPS officers uh for example trashing any suggestion that covid came from a lab League or uh trashing uh US law enforcement on the occasion of the anniversary of George Floyd's um death and shifting to the attempted assassination on the former president I want to make it clear in America violence has never been the answer not on a certain day in January or a recent day in July and I just want to go through the shooting just briefly with you how many armed officers were within the perimeter just ballpark figure you know that really goes to the security posture which is the subject of the inspector the DHS inspector General's review and the outside panel independent panel that's would you say probably more than a 100 though I have to believe that number but I don't again I don't have that number at my fingertips our focus is on the shooter and and his attack and the shooter was able to get eight shots off before he was killed that's what it would appear yes type of weap weapon used by the shooter was an assault rifle was an AR style rifle so that means one trigger pull one round is that right essentially do you like to shoot do I yeah yeah yes do you know the difference between an AR and a bolt action rifle I'm not going to try I sit here and engage on sort of firearms expertise but um but I fired a variety of weapons but had the shooter used a bolt action rifle would that have been one uh one trigger pole one round that's my understanding there would there had have been more well on an assault rifle trigger pole round trigger pull round bolt action non assault rifle what's the difference is it faster slower he was able to get more rounds off more quickly than he would have with other kinds of weapons and that's my point is that we can add additional resources to protect political candidates and we should the people who went to that rally deserved to be protected from gun violence just like the students at Parkland deserve to be protected from gun violence just like the babies at Sandy Hook deserve to be protected from gun violence so we'll devote devote more resources we've added a presidential candidate who is also now protected but if we're being honest with ourselves we have armed this country to the teeth and we have allowed the most dangerous people to to have access to the most dangerous weapons I say that as a parent of a seven-year-old and a 5-year-old and a 2-year-old the two oldest who have done multiple Mass shooter drills in their classrooms I say that as a brother to two police officers who walk a very violent beat and I say that as an elected official who believes that my colleagues deserve to be as safe as I deserve to be when we are at political rallies so we really need to step back and think if we allow these weapons to be in our country can we truly protect our elected officials and can we truly protect most importantly our children in the Next Generation Now yield back gentlemen yields back it is good to have Mr Massie back with us today some of us had a chance to go to Kentucky over the last few weeks and visit with Thomas and his family and hear all kinds of wonderful stories about Ronda amazing amazing lady U Gentle Spirit and U we're glad to have Mr mid back with us and uh next five minutes Belong To You Congressman thank you chairman um director Ray how many counter snipers were present at the rally that day and which of the counter snipers took the shot that took out the wouldbe Assassin uh I don't I don't have the number of counter snipers I know it was a secret service counter sniper who who took the uh the shot that uh eliminated the shooter um we've conducted a number of interviews including of of him so not it was it one of the two that we see in the videos on top of the roof or was it a different location that I'm afraid I don't have that at my fingertips here okay you mentioned that U the wouldbe Assassin bought a 5- foot ladder you have a credit card evidence of that but it looks like on the scene there was a larger ladder that he might have used do you know which ladder he used to get to the roof and do you have possession of that 5 foot ladder and the other ladder and do you know how the taller ladder got to the scene so this whole business about the ladder is something we're drilling into more um we do have possession uh of the uh the 5- foot ladder that he purchased um close in time to his attempted assassination uh that we traced the purchase of that ladder from a receipt a bloodied receipt uh that he had on him at the time his body was recovered on the roof um uh we do not yet know for sure how exactly he got up on the roof we're looking at you know various forensic pieces to try to kind of piece that together so more to come on that do um do you know where the 5- foot ladder was found or retrieved was near the roof or was it in still in his vehicle uh neither um I I I don't have it in front of me but I know that it was not uh I know that it was not on scene and I know that it was not in his vehicle uh but I can we can Circle back to you and get that um um is there any evidence at all that he may have been in contact with somebody else before this occurred that may have had any prior knowledge or may have helped him plan this event well needless to say that that is a question that we're intensely focused on because that would obviously be incredibly meaningful so far underline so far we have not found any evidence uh of any accompli or co-conspirators uh foreign or domestic and you're using geolocation data to see if his cell phone was near another cell phone I presume right we're doing lots of different kinds of cellular analysis uh geolocation stuff looking at his accounts uh he he from everything we've seen um which is consistent with what we've learned in interviews you know a lot of people describe him as a loner that does kind of fit with what we're seeing in his devices you know his his list of contacts for example uh is very short you know compared to what you would normally see from from most people so it doesn't appear to be a whole lot of interaction between him uh you know face Toof face or digital with a lot of people okay thank you that doesn't mean there's not any and that's why we're drilling into we're trying to talk to anybody who's had any engagement with him whatsoever digital you know in person classmates co-workers right Etc appreciate that and now I want to talk about another possible assassination attempt and I'll start by sh showing a a video of President Biden and this is from Recently this is in the last month if the we can play that Gallows erected to hang the vice president of Mike Pence I think it's fair to say it's one of the darkest days in the history of America okay and he's he's referring to January 6 were there Gallows erected to hang Mike Pence as the President says here uh I'm not aware of any physical gall I can't remember whether from a demonstration perspective there may not have been some um um kind of replica or or a symbol of something like that that's that's my impression can we show uh can you raise that up so you can see it it looks like there there was some kind of prop that was built the the construction doesn't look like it lends itself to actually hanging somebody it's more of a prop I think as you suggested that was erected on January 6th uh but if the president were correct that the these Gallows were erected to hang Mike Pence that would be a very serious allegation wouldn't it I would take it very seriously yes is has anybody been arrested or do you have any leads in conjunction with the erection of this um Galls we had a picture here on the screen if you can show it uh again it was just up there there was there's an individual here who's seen on on near this these Gallows has he been arrested have you identified this person you know I don't I don't know that I can speak to this specific person or or the uh The Gallows that are pictured on the image you know we have had I think 850 people who have pled guilty uh to federal crimes uh related to January 6th and I think uh you know another 180 I think it is convicted uh at trials um so I just I can't be sure and some of them merely for going into the capital but here the president suggests that individual intended to hang vice president Pence U which is seems like kind of a wild claim myself given the construction of those Gallows but if we are to take him seriously or even if we aren't we're let me just finish by saying this if you have no leads or you're not sure if anybody who erected those Gallows was arrested or is being investigated uh you know were there any confidential human uh sources involved from the FBI or any other agency in the erection of that prop those Gallows I'm not aware of anything like that all right thank you I yeld back gentleman yields back uh General lady from Washington is recognized thank you Mr chairman welcome director Ray political violence of any kind is dangerous unlawful and totally unacceptable just as we all watched and then unequipped equivocally condemned the attempted assassination attempt on our former president I wish that we could all come together to unequivocally condemn the act of political violence on January 6th instead of Defending props that were used that were harmful dangerous props of gallows attempting to show what people wanted to do to vice president Pence extremists attempted to subvert our democracy and the worst assault on the US capital since the War of 1812 many of us were trapped in the gallery that day we feared we would not make it out insurrectionist were chasing down former speaker Nancy Pelosi and then vice president Mike Pence and I myself have been the direct Target of political violence when an armed man with a gun showed up at my door threatened me and my family and we actually ended up having to move our home so I understand the increased tenor of political violence that is racking our country it has been on the rise fermented by violent and dehumanizing rhetoric from Top public officials including the former president and members of Congress sadly and bolstered by the proliferation of easily accessible guns including assault style weapons all of this violence is unacceptable and I wholeheartedly condemn it I just hope we condemn all of the violence not just one or two incidents Mr Ray today I want to focus on the role of the FBI and the need for the bureau to remain politically neutral and independent the FBI cannot and should not be subject to the whims of any president the majority apparently doesn't think that the FBI needs to be politically neutral and independent they want an FBI subordinate to the president not accountable to the American people that is one part of a larger plan to undermine our democracy to remove the checks and Balan that have protected us and ultimately to subvert our freedoms that agenda promulgated by the former president his Loyalists and their Mega allies is called project 2025 it is publicly available online I encourage everyone who's watching this to Google it it includes plans to undermine every part of our government including the FBI Trump's project 2025 agenda says that the director of the FBI must not not be independent of politics but instead must do whatever the president orders under Trump's project 2025 Trump loyalist would undermine the non-political and independent structure of the FBI project 2025 openly calls on the next conservative Administration to support quote a vast expansion of the number of political appointees in every office across the doj especially the FBI and so Mr Ray given your extensive experience as a law enforcement professional at doj across multiple Republican and Democratic administrations why do you think it's important that the FBI maintain political independence from the president I think the FBI is and needs to stay independent and that means protecting American people without fear or favor upholding the Constitution and the rule of law and it means following the facts wherever they lead no matter who likes it and I add that last part because the essence of Independence and objectivity is not that an investigation is going to always yield the result you want our independence and objectivity can't only be respected when you like the outcome that's the very essence of objectivity sometimes you're going to like the result sometimes you're not going to like the result that applies to everyone including us any number of times we're disappointed and frustrated by the results of our investigations but the alternative is a ro of the rule of law where the only thing that distinguishes uh one investigation for another is power and that's what you see in some of authoritarian countries around the world so I'm not familiar with this particular no I I I didn't ask you pro25 thing I don't know anything about it but I what I can tell you is from my perspective the FBI needs to be uh functioning as independent doesn't mean it's not part of the executive branch it doesn't mean the FBI director doesn't serve at the pleasure of the president but it does mean that the way we do our work has to be OB has to be independent yeah thank you I have I have another question about the role of Attorneys at the FBI office of general counsel um how do we protect that work I'm sorry could you repeat the question the role uh what role do the attorneys at the FBI office of General Council play in ensuring that the bureau respects the constitutional rights of American citizens how do we protect that work so uh the in my experience the lawyers in the office of general counsel uh play an incredibly important role in ensuring that our agents have their questions uh about how to comply with the law and conducting their work answered uh and ensuring that we conduct our work in the right way which means scrupulously adhering to the laws and the rules that apply to us I just wanted to say before I yield Mr chairman that the the project 2025 also eliminates the FBI's office of general counsel in-house lawyers who are responsible for that role I appreciate your Indulgence i y back gent lady y's back gentlemen from Wisconsin's Rec yeah thank you Mr chairman uh I think it was when you were here December of last year um Mr Ray that uh you said blinking lights were going off in regards to the southern border and what is happening down there um has the Border situation improved in terms of your assessment with the security of Americans since you were last here in December well I guess a couple things and I appreciate appreciate the question so first the the blinking L lights comment that I made uh refers more broadly to the threat environment that I'm seeing as FBI director across a wide range of threats contributing to that in a variety of ways are the threats that emanate from the bord so it's not not a comment just on the border issues it's it's the threat environment that we face more broadly in my experience in law enforcement um I am increasingly concerned that uh foreign terrorists could seek to exploit vulnerabilities uh at our Southwest border or at other ports of Entry or and other aspects of our immigration system uh to facilitate an attack here in the United States I think that is something we have to be concerned about there's been a lot of focus on numbers numbers of this numbers of that and I understand that but uh as I think was referenced in an earlier question it doesn't take very many foreign terrorists to be a real problem we had 19 hijackers responsible for the 9911 attacks uh and we just not that long ago had a case some of the members of the committee will remember where we charged an individual for trying to smuggle individuals in to uh assassinate former President Bush are are you concerned that um the border of Patrol Chief former border of Patrol Chief Rodney Scott said that he was very he was concerned about very very minuscule data that they were receiving so there's all this um we are told that um illegal aliens are vetted against databases but oftentimes they're doing Biometrics as they come into this country but not looking behind it in their home countries does that concern you when there's not a review done in the Home Country well we certainly need as much help as we can get from the countries of origin uh these people when I say origin not just where they come from originally but countries they've come through and the biometric enrollment piece uh is of course an important one we have situations where even if are we doing a thorough enough job of reviewing them their actions and their lives in their home countries before they came here well I mean we need more help uh from our foreign Partners uh there's no question about that uh and I think that's an important part of about our domestic Partners like the CIA and others that are supposed to protect us so uh there's been a lot of discussion uh of course over the last several years about the uh the pivot to what it's called the hard targets right the understandable Focus which I support uh of of focusing on the threat posed by China and Russia and Iran uh but with that comes if you look at for example the withdrawal from Afghanistan you we start to lose sources of information about foreign terrorist threats from overseas and that is that is a concern to me yeah my time's running out um has vice president Harris met with you in regards to the Border well I've been in meetings uh with that have included the vice president uh that have in different ways touched on board she specifically asked you for a meeting in regards to um the threat that is at the border you know I'm not going to get into sort of specific meetings but I can tell you that I've been in meetings that have included among other people the vice president that touch on border security issues did she ask you questions about what you thought needed to be done in regards to reducing this threat to the American people you know I I really can't get into specific conversations is support for president Trump a security concern within the FBI I'm sorry I couldn't hear it is support for president Trump a security concern amongst your employees no is objection to the covid-19 vaccine a security threat not from my perspective um who improved the what is termed the Trump questionnaire within the FBI that was done by siis Dena Perkins Jeffrey ventry were behind it who was responsible for that and did you know that there was a trump questionnaire out there so the document you're asking about uh is an interview outline that we only recently learned about and that my view is completely inappropriate I asked my team to get to the bottom of what happened and to ensure that doesn't happen again and I've learned that it's not an FBI form that its use was isolated that it was created not by an FBI employee but by an outside contractor and that individual is no longer affiliated with the FBI but we are sending what we have found to the office of Inspector General to and we'll cooperate of course with anything they Mr chairman I'll just close with this um we keep hearing about these isolated examples whether it's Richmond Catholics this instance when is it isn't it a pattern I yield back G you back Mr CA thank you Mr chairman and uh director Ray welcome again to this committee and I want to thank you and your agents for good job you're doing to protect Americans um earlier this week I was part of the group that went out to visit Butler Pennsylvania Homeland Security members um I agree with my colleagues that have said violence has no part in our democracy and I trust you will investigate the events surrounding July 13th early I'm going to ask you a question um hope you keep it in mind as your investigation proceeds which is who's in charge who's in charge at a campaign rally setting it up secret service or a campaign and I asked this question because when I was there had a couple of law enfor forcement individuals alluding to that question as well they gave me an example they said U if a secret service says you need to set up a line of dump trucks behind the stage to serve to protect the candidate and the campaign says that's bad Optics who ends up winning the debate so my question is who's in charge and as you investigate this crime scene hope you ask the locally elected officials I spoke to a County Supervisor local police and Sheriff they all had information they wanted us to know to relay we just didn't have the opportunity to sit down and talk to them um there was a lot of concern that they weren't given enough time to prepare for this rally they thought they were things that could have have done better and ultimately what I keep thinking what I keep coming back to is question who's in charge at these rallies I think it's an important one because we have an election right around the corner Pennsylvania Butler these areas Battleground states around the country will continue to be areas where our candidates both sides will show up and the threats will continue to be there so I hope director a that you'll keep that statement in mind as you continue to investigate this crime scene well I I appreciate the question uh I will tell you that we've conducted well over 400 interviews but we have many more still to conduct uh and as is Not Unusual an investigation I'm sure there will be situations where we have to go back to people we've already interviewed with follow-up questions um and our interviews cover a wide range of people I do think it's important to make sure uh that the committee and and the American people understand uh the scope of our investigation versus the scope of others our investigation is focused on the shooter and his attack uh there is of course uh and I understand completely why uh two separate there are two separate reviews one by the DHS Inspector General and the other by this outside independent panel that's been announced that are focused on the security posture the adequacy of the security posture at the rally Secret Service decision making and actions and things like that and so I certainly understand why there are all those questions um but those are those are in scope of those two other reviews and of course whatever you know Congress uh chooses to do our investigation though because of our interviews of people who were on the scene will relate to that in some ways and we're going to share whatever we learn that's relevant with those other reviews director I my last minute that I have on going I flip quickly to your good job resources earlier this year in the Appropriations Committee you testified that you were for 2024 your budget was 500 million below what you needed to sustain your 2023 efforts few minutes ago you talked about foreign terrorists the last few weeks I know information has emerged that information came from fisa information that was able to be collected overseas on these possible terrorist threats what we have here today is a domestic terrorist what looks to be a lone wolf your statements there's nothing really there that would have tipped anybody off to this individual is that what I'm hearing from you well I I don't know that i' go quite that far because we're still investigating uh a lot related to the shooter it does appear so far that we're seeing Less in his my six seconds I would just say I would ask that you let us know what resources you need to protect the American public and our candidates in our democratic system I I would appreciate the question I would just say this we are in as I've said consistently today and for quite some time now we are in elevated threat environment covering a wide range of threats and the FBI is Central to protecting American people from from those threats and state and local law enforcement who depend on us every day uh rely on us for all sorts of services databases forensic support training I could go on and on and on and a lot of those departments unlike the FBI have had a hard time recruiting and so this is not a time to pull back on our funding because we're going to leave our brothers and sisters in state local law enforcement twisting in the wind and and then by by extension the American people were all collectively sworn to protect thank you and Mr chair I yield J Yi's back gentleman from Texas recognize thank you chairman thank you director Ray for being here um when did you last speak with President Biden I don't have the exact date but it's been certainly since the uh you know since the shooting so you have spoken to the president since the assassination attempt on President Trump's life yes sir and what was the mental state of the president we had a perfectly professional conversation um and are you uh do you have any scheduled briefings of the president uh upcoming uh not at the moment specifically scheduled no um in 2016 and 2015 top FBI officials uh infamously texted about quote their insurance policy to make sure Trump was never elected or inaugurated as president have any FBI agents texted emailed or expressed disappointment that Trump survived the assassination assassination attempt or otherwise editorialized about the Assassin ation attempt uh I don't know about any agents uh there have been at least two instances I think or one instance of an individual uh who posted something uh that I consider outrageous and totally inappropriate um and unacceptable and that individual has been referred to our Inspection Division which is the arm our sort of internal affairs investigatory arm that that does the disciplinary process okay will you report back to this committee any other incidents I I'll do my best to to share information with the committee uh you testified earli that the FBI maintains high standards irrespective of of so-called diversity efforts um is it true that in December of 2016 former director Comey lowered the passing standards for phase one uh allowing an influx of previously unqualified applicants to continue in the hiring process who normally would have been stopped back in December of 2016 yeah I can't I can't speak to director comey's um but were the can tell you that that at least since I've been director changes that we have made to uh we're standing on a specific question we're standards Chang phase one this specific part of the process were they changed in 2016 well I don't recall if they were changed in 2016 obviously I started as your question presupposes after that what I can tell you is since that time we have made changes to various phases of the process but none of them this is important none of them lowered the standards in fact if anything they actually increased are you are you familiar with with reporting that we have and we've asked questions to you about this I'm not sure the result of the questions that a more to more quote easily accommodate a larger pool of available applicant FBI special agent hiring standards have been relaxed and requirements measurably lowered this according to a group of former agents who have testified about this and written a report and submitted it to Congress in addition specifically uh minority uh people with 20-year careers one in particular a minority served for more than 20 years uh wrote in this report and submitted to Congress saying that these standards were in fact lowered and that in fact if you were hiring you were moved off of hiring if you put quality above these kinds of Dei requirements do you reject this report and do you have comments on this report I haven't read aware of the I'm aware of the report I know that I've read every detail of it but I can tell you that the claim that we have lowered our standards to be less selective and less competitive is not accurate so so do you believe these former agents are lying to Congress when they submit a report to Congress stipulating suggesting otherwise are you saying that they are lying I'm saying they're mistaken okay but they're affirmatively on the record they're telling us and submitting a report to Congress saying that those facts are directly in contradiction what you're testifying here today so I just want to be clear so we know we're saying that they are submitting uh evidence to our record to the contrary that you say is untruthful I I encounter all the time when I when I travel around the country and have conversations with our agents and I one of the things I try to do is have meetings with some of the longer serving agents without executive man that's my only question and my point here's the application is untruthful so I I need move on I got one minute left are you familiar with the case of paulet harlo she's a 75-year-old elderly woman from Massachusetts with a debilitating medical condition um she was prosecuted for violating the face act and sentenced to two years in prison she has to go to Texas in two weeks she was praying at an abortion clinic in Washington DC the FBI interrogated investigated her do you think it is appropriate for 7 5-year-old woman who is praying at a clinic in DC to be put in prison for 2 years for that activity just a simple question do you think that's appropriate I'm not familiar with the specific case you're not familiar with that case it's been significantly in the headlines but so but you don't know how to comment on that case that it's appropriate for 75-year-old woman to be put in prison for two years for praying at a clinic again I'm not going since I'm not familiar with the case I don't want to start weighing in because I don't know all the facts but what I can tell you is that when it comes to face act enforcement and abortion related violent extremism I I think one of the things that gets lost and I appreciate the opportunity to clarify it is that really uh since the do's decision actually more of our abortion related violent extremism investigations have focused on violence against pro-life facilities as opposed to the other way around and we've had a number of investigates we're using faac resources and our jttf we're still waiting on responses on letters that we've sent uh indicating the data to the contrary there's been significant amount of efforts in targeting of people who are pro first you go to clinics and that they've been prosecuted like this case a 75y old woman who is now going to jail in Texas for 2 years because she was praying at a clinic in Washington DC and we've submitted uh questions on that and I'd appreciate a response on it you'll back gentem yield back G from Pennsylvania is recognized thank you so much and thank you director Ray for being here and for the work uh that your team does as well as for sharing the information that you've been able to today um you just got a couple questions about out um that seemed to imply that there was some problem with um the FBI's diversity efforts and certainly the 1950s version of the FBI was singularly um Caucasian male agents Etc um is the FBI a better Force for having a diverse range of uh employees and agents I think diversity makes us better but like everything else it has to be done the right way I think we can have a more diverse Workforce and do it without lowering our standards and that's in my view what we've done and and you haven't lowered standards at the FBI we have not I repeatedly come across people who are confused about different parts of that and I appreciate the opportunity to set that straight thank you yeah I think we're all concerned here as we've seen the roll out of this project 2025 that purports to try to eliminate any reference to um diverse efforts across the entire federal government so it is sort of a top- of Mind concern as it's uh threatening to become reality so what I did want to talk about today is something some of my colleagues have mentioned which is the normalization of threats and violence against public servants at all levels whether it's election workers or school officials elected officials in their families judges federal law enforcement agents and others to be clear um I think it's very clear that the major maity of Americans wholeheartedly condemn any sort of political violence and understand that it's not legitimate uh discourse and that it has no place in our our Civic life but words do matter and they have consequences particularly when uttered by people in positions of leadership so that's why I I remain very concerned by the willingness of some members of Congress to repeat disinformation and conspiracy theories that undermine trust in our public institutions which serve all Americans and when elected officials Embrace overheated or fact-free rhetoric it becomes dangerous um I have been heartened as many national leaders have unequivocally condemned calls to violence and I would urge all members of this body uh to do so and continue to do so regardless of the party affiliation of the perpetrators or the targets of such threats um you and our other National Security officials have repeatedly warned us that foreign actors are actively working to spread disinformation to influence our elections and discredit our public institutions and we shouldn't be aiding and eding them um so to live in a country that we aspire to where our most valued Democratic processes like free and fair elections can be carried out in unimpeded and people can run for office serve their communities and exercise their right to vote without fear of violence um we've had some concerns about violence around our elections in 2020 the endorsement and promulgation of falsehoods about the election result by the former president and and his campaign led to threats and attacks against election officials and pool workers in Pennsylvania and those falsehoods also wasted millions of taxpayer dollars on frivolous lawsuits and extraordinary security costs so as we're again approaching November we want to ensure that those who Implement and defend our elections our neighbors and our nonpartisan civil servants can do that important work work free from conspiracy theories and threats so we know our local law enforcement across Pennsylvania are preparing for some disruption and threats um because while Pennsylvania may be a Battleground state in the upcoming election that battle should obviously be a war of words over policy and the vision we're charting for our country's future not an actual Civil War so how is the FBI working with state and local law enforcement to prevent and respond to election related violence particularly against election workers so in a variety of ways we're partnering with state and local law enforcement obviously the U physical security in the first instance uh in most of the respects you're talking about is in the is in the ordinary course the responsibility of state and local law enforcement but uh we play an important role in a number of ways so we share you know threat bulletins information like that about things to be on the lookout for things we're seeing uh if we ever have specific threat information then we work to get it to the right people we have election crime coordinators which we've had for decades uh in all 56 field offices who have existing relationship with not just State local law enforcement but election officials uh especially focus on on security and threat related uh issues uh and then of course we're participating in the election threats task force uh that doj set up which is focused on threats of violence or actual violence against election workers specifically and we've had a number of arrests and and even some convictions already on that thank you for your input I yield back General yields back director uh it's my intention to go approximately another half an hour um then we will we'll break for the prime minister of Israel's address to the Congress um on on the floor give you a chance for lunch and then then resume after that but we'll we'll keep pushing through for the next half hour we can General lady from Indiana is recognized thank you Mr chairman uh thank you director Ray uh I think you have a little bit better tone in conversation so I appreciate it you know and answer some questions so I appreciate it hopefully you'll answer also in two letters that I sent you over a year ago one related to Durham report and the other one related to Russian infiltrated sbu that collaborated with FBI so hopefully we'll get his answers and hopefully we'll St do an authorization don't you think doing authorization would help us to get better answers Congress should be probably working authorize a new agency don't you agree with that uh we work very hard to try to get information to this committee and to other committees but authorizing spending probably would be a good thing for us to do don't you agree oh I'm sorry authorizing what our spending not just doing appropriating but actually doing authorization of spending through this committee yes okay thank you we might start doing that uh but um we can talk about in a lot of uh my colleagues on other side you know AR-15 gets a lot of bad rap you know like to bring it up this issue but really there are a lot of hunting rifles that probably maybe even more accurate than a lot of ARs and don't you AG we have like Millions right don't you agree we have millions of rifles owned by law Bing Americans so do you you know do you think we should be taking them millions of rifles from L biding Americans what do you think about that would that be something feasible and really we should be doing that well again I I'm not going to be addressing ing anybody's specific legislative proposal uh from our perspective from the FBI's perspective the concern is any dangerous weapon in the hands in the wrong hands all weapons of the wrong person but all weapons are dangerous right I'm sorry all weapons are dangerous knives are dangerous you know explosive there are a lot of weapons are by their very going to be confiscating you know hunting rifles and rifles for millions of Americans do you think it's even feasible to do something like that from low Biden citizens it's not something I'm ADV ating okay well thank you I appreciate that so we have to go back that was a catastrophic failure of security that was happened you know recently was attempted assassination don't you agree with that well I I think uh former director cheel has already uh publicly acknowledged uh that it was I think her words were a significant operational failure then we had you know similar situation a different you know talking about bad Optics speaker Pelosi at that time didn't want to have bad Optics and January 6th and we didn't have proper security here in January 6th that was a catastrophic failure too we looking at that anyone conclusion was made from that have we Mak any adjustments because I'm not a lot of people you know got hurt now just being here it was a lot of cases burning out Department of Justice and there were a lot of them were really just low abiding Americans that really just upset with the government and they have a reason to do it so I think we need to think about it before we prosecute or instead of actually you know looking how we can deal with real criminals and how we can have a proper security when we have events with so many people there so did you uh did you have confidential human sources I think you never answered that question on January 6 in the capital did you have some I'm sorry what's the what's confid confidential human sources did you have them on January 6 in the capital well again I I'm never going to be getting into when and where we have or have not or have not used confidential human sources but are you willing to understand the record that you had you know you had no confidential human sources that went into capital in January 6 as I've said consistently I'm not going to get into where we have or have not used confidential human sources I can tell you that if you are asking if the violence at the capital on January 6 was part of some operation orchestrated by FBI sources or agents the answer is no no I didn't ask that I asked so did you investigate if you any confidential human sources did you do any investigation and looking at that so you're not answering if you had any or not so if you had potentially did you do anything you needed to make sure to investigate that none of your sources did anything wrong if they did wrong they they were prosecuted the same way like you're trying to prosecute a lot of people that really even Con in Supreme Court rule recently that some some unconstitutional charges let me just add that there have now been I think 180 individuals who've gone to trial in addition to the 850 whove who pled guilty right but I think the problem is you put dis charges a lot of people would put guilty but let me say just quickly because I only have 10 seconds really so I hope you will take seriously what you're doing you know related to the border security is also a crisis you know have your vice president was a leading on that has she actually she initiated meetings with you to lead like weekly or monthly meeting where she actually get briefing from you as a leading bordar that had that function have you had that have she initiated any meetings on a regular basis with you again gent L time has expired the gentleman can can respond right I I on this issue of confidential human sources number one I will say there is an doj oig in review that's under underway that I think addresses some of these kinds of topics uh I believe but I won't speak for the Inspector General uh second as to this suggestion which I've heard uh all too many times that somehow January 6 was orchestrated by FBI agents or human or sources uh I will note that in addition to my prior comments that there have now been 850 is individuals who plad guilty and another 180 who've gone to trial they've all had access to defense Council Discovery all the things the Constitution and the rules provide them it's been in front of something like 15 different judges I think dozens of jurries and not one has given Credence to this notion and in fact I don't think any of them have even really seriously tried to raise it so it's not just my word for it look what's happening in the cases thank you uh gentleman from Colorado is recognized for five minutes thank you thank you Mr chairman thank you director Ray for being here for your testimony to today for the work that you do each and every day and that your Frontline agents across the country do each and every day to protect Americans to keep our country safe also grateful for the work that you're doing in investigating uh the horrific events of July 13th and the attempted assassination of former president Trump which everyone must and and has condemned uh I would first just ask do you believe that the FBI has the adequate resources to ultimately Ensure uh that your agency gets to the bottom of it and fully investigates uh this terrible crime well we are devoting uh massive amounts of resources to this specific investigation um we have easily several hundred uh FBI agents analysts and professional staff uh working on it it is involves over half of the FBI's 56 field offices almost every headquarters division we even have uh some of our overseas offices working on you might say well why is that well because some of the companies uh that uh involve accounts or purchases or Communications or what have you that the shooter used are foreign companies so we have to get uh evidence from overseas from those companies uh I've talked about our lab a little bit earlier today we've got our office of Technology division working on the digital devices we have our behavioral analysis unit our working on helping us build out a profile of the shooter I could go on and on and on so it's all hands- on deck on this case as I think is appropriate now when you ask about our resources uh I've been public about the fact that the fiscal year 24 budget put US $500 million below where we needed to be to sustain current operations and the on fy2 the current house mark would put us significantly further back behind that and would result in significant risks across every program and our support to State and local law enforcement uh we arrested something like 50 violent criminals per day every day last year the current mark would mean more violent criminals on the street more neighborhoods at risk we have about a 1300% increase in our investigations related to China and it's targeting of us and I can assure you China is not cutting its budget this would mean more threats from China we have something like 300 to 400 investigations just into cartel leadership uh and about hardly a week goes by when some FBI field office isn't seizing enough fenel to wipe out an entire State those that Mark that those cuts means more fental on the street more people dying uh so the people who suffer the most are State local law enforcement and the American people were sworn to protect and so look forward to working with Congress but we we really need to be uh smart about what we're doing and I think that would be a step in the wrong direction given the threat environment that we face and I couldn't agree with you more director Ray and of course we've talked about this uh during previous hearings in which you've testified and to be clear that I think the budget that House Republicans have proposed which is about a $325 million cut to the FBI would do precisely what you've described and have dilus impacts uh for Public Safety across our country and uh house Democrats are certainly working to prevent those cuts from taking place you've talked at Great length about the events of July 13 there's justifiably a lot of public interest in the investigation which we understand is ongoing wonder if you might if there's anything that you'd like to disclose or provide to the committee or to the public um that perhaps has not yet been gleaned during the course of this hearing it just give you an opportunity because there's a lot of folks related to the investigation yeah one thing I can give an update on um which is pretty fresh here uh we had some conversations with some of the members uh about the access to the the roof and the ladder and so forth uh and our evidence response teams uh and their forensic collection uh We've now believe that the subject climbed onto the roof using some mechanical equipment on the ground and vertical piping on the side of the AGR building uh in other words we do not believe he used a ladder to get up there one question if the chairman might indulge me with just a few e extra seconds there's an article recently uh regarding several former Trump Administration National Security officials who had received a duty to warn briefing from the FBI regarding the Potential Threat from Iran and I think there is this article made clear deep concern these individuals have justifiably so about the Threat Level and particularly given the events of the last several months and the need for there to be an increased security posture and security Personnel for former officials who may very well still be at risk and I don't know if you're familiar with that article I'm try not to use names here but I think uh would perhaps follow up with your agency and with the Department of Justice more broadly to ensure that any individuals who are potentially facing a threat from Iran or another hostile actor in foreign Nation have the resources they need to have uh the the security available to them so again without reference to any specific individual um I want to be very clear about this because I've I've tried to be vocal on this but it sometimes doesn't um get noticed as much which is that in my view the Iranian government has been extremely aggressive and Brazen uh we have seen in the last few years an attempt I'm speaking just from public information now an attempt to Assassin a a former US National Security adviser on us soil we have seen an attempt first to kidnap and then to try to murder an American dissonant journalist who's a Critic of the Iranian regime right smack in the middle of New York City we have seen uh a Cyber attack against a Children's Hospital in New England that ties back to Iran we have seen uh as I've testified before as director rackliffe and I announced an effort by the Iranians to Target the 2020 presidential election uh and that's all before you even get to the fact that the Iranian government is the leading State sponsor of terrorism so if that's not enough to convince people that Iran is a threat I don't know what is but director was there a distinction between what the gentleman from Colorado raised and what you just said this General concern in these these specific uh instance you talk about and a direct specific threat on president Trump that's distinct from what you've been describing as this General concern with Iran well again I I can't get into specific pieces of class and if so when if it was a distinct threat on President Trump when did that when did that take place yeah I I all I can tell you uh certainly in this kind of setting is um targeting of us officials for the uh solomani strike is something that is a reality that the Iranian government has at times called for very publicly uh and there whenever there is reporting let me try to answer your question this way Whenever there is reporting uh about any of those protectees uh we share the information in a variety of ways working with the intelligence Community working with whoever is the protective service with responsibility for that individual and we do it in a timely way using the the duty to warant process that was just referred to uh and to my knowledge everything along those lines uh that's relevant was shared in a timely way with the relevant people thank you gentleman from Wisconsin is recognized director R thanks for being here um where where were you when you heard that President Trump was shot and then what were like your immediate actions response to that as director I was uh about to have dinner with family um and I was was horrified and angry I I'm just thinking the the reason I asked the question is because I'm thinking I'm still trying to figure out kind of the lanes what the FBI would respond to and what the secret service has the responsibility to respond to can you just kind of cover that again sure so the FBI uh is not responsible for it's never really been part of our mandate or mission for the physical security of venues of spefic specific protectees or anything like that that's if it's a if it's somebody within sacred Services scope that's their mandate and Mission uh we are a law enforcement and intelligence agency and so if you think about it this way we're the Federal Bureau of Investigation we're not the federal Bure of security you might say well what's the difference well there is a difference uh we investigate crimes we investigate threats to National Security but we don't questions about security posture the adequacy of uh resour resources and assets that were deployed to protect a specific individual whether there's enough security and certainly the Staffing of that security is not something the FBI uh again we're 116 years old has historically done so at this point um have you been able to go through the shooter's home and and kind of document kind of what what you found as far as evidence goes so we we have been able to search the shooters home so again just sort of tying your first question to your to your second question now you know our role is to conduct an investigation of the shooter and the attack and so we're going to conduct a painstaking intense investigation of that we have among other scenes that we've processed using evidence response teams uh in addition to the rally scene itself of course we have been through the individuals the shooters home uh his bedroom other parts of the house Etc have you been able to establish that he did go to a range and either zero that weapon in or you know at least target shoot that weapon prior to the assassination attempt so uh we do uh assess that he went to a shooting range the day not the only time he went to a shooting range he was a fairly um Avid might be a little strong but a fairly Avid uh you know shooting hobbyist uh and so he went to you know belonged to different sort of clubs and and went to certain ranges and that kind of thing we do uh believe based on what we've seen so far that he went to a shooting range uh the day before and then he shot uh an AR sty AR style rifle at that range the day before I I'm not sure we know for sure that it's this the weapon that he used but I think we assess that it probably is have you been able to uh interview his parents uh yes we have and was there anything that was gained from that interview that would lead you to believe that they certainly were aware of what was going on uh I would uh I guess I want to be careful talking about specific people's interviews but I would say that his parents were Cooperative with us and as I've said before and hopefully this gets at your question we have not identified any accomplice co-conspirators or anything along those lines um so it's the FBI's position right now that he still acted independently again we're still I know it seems like a lifetime since July 13th but we're still early stages but we have not seen anything so far that would suggest to us that he acted with others how does the FBI view not just a trump rally but political rallies versus other types of events uh you know from a security perspective uh compared to a college football game or any any Mass you know large crowd type Gathering because I can't I think one of the things that's most difficult to really um to swallow at this point is that the the idea that these Trump rallies have been happening for years and that there there could be such a LAX approach to the physical security of those Fairgrounds that day and I'm wondering you know where does this fall and then on top of that that there were other presidential candidates out there that didn't have full Secret Service protection RFK Jr has been the most vocal about it I was wondering if you could comment on the on the facilities as well as providing security for presidential candidates well again I want to be a little bit careful to stay in my Lane because again security posture and the adequacy of the security posture uh is is really the core expertise and responsibility of agencies like the Secret Service but uh certainly it is I think fair to say that uh outdoor events whether they're political rallies or as you say you know a college football game in an open Stadium a concert uh these are places that are uh often you know particularly challenging to secure adequately uh because the range of threats that can face them are are higher uh in addition to that as been has been discussed a little bit here uh already in in today's hearing just threats to public officials including politicians uh is an increasingly a pervasive part of today's landscape and so that adds to the challenge so you're talking about the combination of um uh individuals who are increasingly targeted for violence combined with uh venues that are softer and harder to secure uh targets I guess is the way I would answer but again th those kinds of questions the adequacy of the security posture uh all the resources that were or were not devoted all that stuff is my understanding would be very much in scope for the DHS Inspector General uh investigation and this outside independent panel that's been apped y back gentle uh gentleman Yi's back uh director I think we're going to be able to get two more members uh times a question then we we have to get to the floor for the for the Prime Minister J L from George is recognized thank you chair Johnson and thank you so much director director Ray for your transparency and your testimony today um first I want to say my friend and she was my friend before I even came to Congress and in my freshman year she kind of took me under her wing and she kind of showed me the ropes and she was a force to be reckoned with and I can say that she will never ever be replaced and she was a Trailblazer and I know that she will sorely be missed here in Congress uh director Ray I only have one question for you today but before we get to that point I just like to reiterate today that political violence is never acceptable regardless of how different our political values and Views are attempted assassinations are as stain to the very democratic ideals of this nation we have endured riots on Capitol Hill on January 6th where a literal noose was erected on Capitol grounds intended for then vice president Pence and speaker Emeritus Nancy Pelosi political vience violence against election workers that has been expressed today an attack on Paul Pelosi Nancy Pelosi's husband threats against the FBI agents as you have expressed and prosecutors and threats to the staff who serve the public every single day Congressman Connelly staff was targeted and attacked last year and now we have the attempted assassination of a former president of the United States all of this within just the last 3 years this violence simply needs to end the assassination attempt on Donald Trump was by the grace of God a failure the weapon the 20-year-old man was able to obtain in AR-15 generally has a shooting range up to 600 yards and shot Mr Trump from almost 150 yard away this weapon has the ability to kill multiple people in seconds and sadly Corey compur lost his life because of this man and because of this gun Mr cator's family will never be the same trust me I understand that more than anyone else in this room is the near loss of a former president enough for this Congress to finally take action because there are 206 of us that are already standing in the wings ready to take immediate action to ban assault weapons today we need only 12 more of our colleagues to join us in Courage and move the legislation to save lives of so many of the people that we are elected to serve by removing assault weapons from the hands of people who simply should not have them in their possession we are crippling our democracy and we are ripping apart our fellow Americans until we do I ask today because it is clearly clearly wasn't enough to take action when The lethality of salt of assault weapons we lost 26 and seveny olds and six teachers in 2012 when I also lost my son to gun violence or 14 teenagers and three more teachers in 2018 nor was it enough when we lost 19 more children and two more teachers in 2022 well is it enough now now that a former president the very president and many of you in this room are hoping will be reelected almost lost his life because this Congress has failed to reinstate an assault weapons ban a ban that by the way Republicans joined with Democrats the past 30 years ago well fine y all don't like assault weapons ban we can bring another bill that I have introduced to a vote the go SAFE Act this bill focuses on the components of the semi-automatic automatic Firearms regulates their infrastructure sale and transfer this again is not the time for thoughts and prayers this is a Time for Action director Ry just one question I have for you would you rather have your officers protected or protect someone against an assault weapon being shot from 147 yards away or standard pistol with no accessories attached well again I'm not I'm going to refrain from appearing to comment on specific legislative proposals but I can tell you that we have certainly concerned uh about the uh danger to law enforcement from high any kind of high-powered weapon in the wrong hands and it hits close to home for us uh because just not that long ago two great agents L schwarzenberger and Dan Alin down in Miami executing a surge in a crimes against children case were shot and killed by a subject with an automatic weapon so again dangerous weapons in the wrong hand uh is something that of course from a law enforcement perspective concerns us but I'm not going to wait into the legislative process well thank you for that answer I'd rather give our agents a fighting chance and I yield back gent lady yields back gentlemen from Oregon recogniz thank you Mr chair and thank you director Ray for being here today so we spend three3 billion dollars a year excuse me on the Secret Service three billion and um that it would seem that we could and should have had a better job done uh a few weeks ago on the 13 and what we saw will you have anything to say about correcting what are the obvious deficiencies and what the Secret Service did well uh for the most part the the deficiencies or adequacy or inadequacy of secret Services performance uh decision making resources all that stuff is is in the purview of those two other investigations that is the DHS Inspector General and the outside independent panel that's been announced having said that our investigation which as I've testified now is involves several hundred FBI employees and every asset we can bring to bear of the shooter again our investigations of the shooter and his attack of course involves interviewing law enforcement including lots and lots and lots of Secret Service people so we'll share all that with those reviews so that they can answer those question the reason the reason I'm asking this is because this isn't the first time the secret service has been before Cong Congress there was a 435 page report issued in 2015 by by Congress saying fix yourself they didn't in fact there was a followup in 09 where they had only done a few of the I think it was 18 or 19 different specific things they were supposed to do they'd done some but certainly not all there was another followup in 2022 and again the Secret Service had not done what Congress had asked I guess my question to you uh Mr director is how what should Congress do we a 435 page report nine years ago and still the Secret Service isn't isn't didn't do what it was told to do then can you help director Rey because this this type of performance is is not is is not acceptable well as I again I think even former director cheel has acknowledged uh that this was a a significant operational failure if there are ways for the FBI to be helpful beyond what we're already doing in terms of our investigation We Stand ready to try to be helpful I I do want to say as somebody who's been in law enforcement for most of my career I've worked with some just phenomenal Secret Service agents going all the way back to my time as a line prosecutor and they they have an incredibly hard job uh and I have a lot of affection and respect for the men and women of the Secret Service I'm sure you do and I'm sure you're right but the trouble is when Congress says you need to do these 19 things and they don't something needs to change now the director has resigned but you're going to be in a position because your agency's doing such a careful review to to say a lot about what should have been done I guess the real issue is much more of what the higher reps in that agency are or are not doing perhaps that's on us and we will share we will share with those reviews anything that we come across that could be helpful or relevant to them for those those questions let me let me Qui quickly go to some details on the actual events uh it appeared to a lot of us as the SEC service was taking president former president Trump from the stage that he was clearly still in view of everybody and had there been another shooter I didn't see him being protected are you going to raise that issue I think that's really more in scope of these two other reviews uh let me let okay that's fine let me go to the the shooter as he was on top of the roof apparently another officer from another police division saw him and quickly duck down because the shooter aimed a gun at him um and then the shooter apparently was he prone at the time he took the shot toward the president so uh my understanding uh is that the local officer uh who they we're talking about with the assistance of another local officer was able to kind of get up and see onto the roof uh where he observed the shooter I believe in a prone shooting position uh the shooter then turned and faced him the local officer with weap from the prone position that's my understanding then he went back to the prone position and this is all seconds before the uh the shooter took his that entire time the shooter was in the scope site of of the counter sniper correct that one I'd have to double check on I know we've interviewed the counter sniper but I I'm not sure I know the answer the counter sniper didn't take a shot until after the Assassin attempted to shoot the former president and others he got off eight shots before before the the the counter sniper shot the shooter what's with that protocol can you get that fixed well again I I really want to be careful not to be uh given the scope of our investigation somehow second guessing the very difficult uh act and decision it takes for a counter sniper to kill another human being in that situation it's all happening in seconds so eight shots and and and that was after he'd been seen for 20 minutes I yield back thank you um director uh that's an important question though because youve you've talked to the counter sniper um and that I mentioned this in our opening statement that critical 5 minutes from 609 to 614 and what takes place there is critical and I think that's what the gentleman was getting at and we were hopeful that you could tell us something about your interview with the counter sniper yeah I I I guess I want to distinguish a couple things there's um there is some individual not law enforcement I believe who spotted the shooter on the roof a few minutes before uh but I think law enforcement spotting him with the weapon on the roof is seconds before the shot that that's important there's two different things going what you're saying is it wasn't maybe that if this if the if this bad guy shoots at 611 then you're saying this encounter with local law enforcement that Mr B was just getting into to happen just seconds before that and maybe not 2 minutes before that that's my understanding that in other words that there's different things here there's individual at least one individual I can think of not law enforcement member of the public who observed him on the roof not clear to whether or not the individual saw a weapon or not but saw him in a way that was concerning that is some number of not many but like just a handful of minutes I think separate from that as far as law enforcement goes in terms of a weapon uh this this local officer that we just talked about uh observed the individual again literally just seconds before the individual the shooter took his shots separate and apart from all of that uh you know roughly I think maybe a little less than or around an hour before the shooting there were local law enforcement officers who observed the shooter not Up on the Roof not with a weapon but with a uh I believe a Rangefinder kind of like you would use if you were playing golf or something uh in a way that was odd and suspicious so that started happening with local law enforcement beforehand but in terms of shooter meaning with the weapon uh law enforcement my understanding is that the first time that happened was this local officer Climbing Up on the Roof seconds before yeah we we we want that timeline I think the committee wants that timeline and Communications that were taking place in that in that short period of time again as I've said with everything else I really want to be careful I'm leaning in trying to share as much as I can here facts are evolving things may change but we are working on a timeline among other things committee will stand in recess until after the prime minister's remarks conclude committee will come to order to the gentle lady from North Carolina is recognized for five minutes uh thank you Mr chairman and thank you so much director Ray for being with us yet again as you know we've seen a disturbing rise in domestic terrorism and farri extremism across the United States and we've heard from you several times about this white supremacist and far- rate extremist groups um continue to outpace all types of terrorism and de domestic violent extremism according to the National Institute of Justice report from this past January part of this dramatic rise in extremist violence and threats stems from line foreign actors who are actively working to seow division in American democracy they're desperately trying to inflame extremists at with and deepen divides all to support far-right agendas and candidates that will erode our democracy the DHS threat assessment has warned we expect the 2024 election cycle will be a key event for possible violence and foreign influence targeting our election infrastructure processes and Personnel Microsoft has warned that the 2024 election may be the first presidential election during which multiple authoritarian actors simultaneously attempt to interfere with and influence election outcomes National Security officials and experts have warned that foreign governments mainly Russia China and Iran seek to destabilize the United States via its elections by sowing further division in the American electorate this is happening and happening in the current context of increased political violence in our country against a former president election workers judges members of Congress and their families and other public servants I cannot emphasize enough that this is a national sec security threat director Ry reports have found that these propaganda campaigns will sometimes Target Target racial groups why would countries like Russia China Iran seek to inflame racial tensions via social media well of course it may vary from adversary to adversary but the playbook for authoritarian regimes uh in today's world is to try to sew div iess and Discord to turn us against each other to capitalize on existing social tensions that they perceive and to try to uh in effect pour gasoline on the fire uh and intensify those conflicts that may already exist uh in our domestic you know political scene uh so rather than uh you know if you're a foreign adversary that means us no good uh rather than try to come up with some completely brand new issue or or Theory or narrative to turn us against each other you look for things where we're already at the very least quarreling with each other if not fighting with each other and then they try to capitalize on that and amp it up and of course that can then sometimes as we've seen all too tragically boil over or bubble over into outright violence and so um how has the FBI worked to combat this propaganda and infiltration on our social media networks so our focus is on the foreign actor China Russia Iran uh and on their efforts and so we work with the intelligence Community we work with our foreign Partners our friendly foreign Partners to try to uncover what those countries Russia China Iran are up to uh and we try to share information about The Hidden Hand of the foreign actor uh where it's appropriate uh we also engage in efforts to disrupt those foreign actors uh the most recent example uh with the Russians for example is a uh Russian government linked generative AI social media um bot Farm where they were posing as among others us persons and not in fact us persons and trying to again sew various narratives in that case very heavily focused on uh the issue they picked There Was You know the war in Ukraine and again trying to kind of get everybody uh turned against each other we've also seen that though from China and Iran I mentioned China before uh we've had a case where they we charged I think it was 34 Chinese Ministry of public security MPS officers for much the same kind of behavior creating false personas pretending to be Americans and then trying to kind of sew narratives in that case in the Chinese case their narratives were trying to for example undermine any suggestion that covid was the product of a lab leak or attacking us law enforcement uh at the anniversary of George Floyd's death for example and then Iran uh in 2020 we saw them undertake similar kinds of efforts um that were disrupted in the in the I think October of 2020 thank you and I yield back G yields back gentleman from Virginia is recogniz for five minutes director R thank you for being here and thank you for the information that you've provided today I greatly appreciate this event that occurred uh the attempted assassination of President Trump on on July 13th in Butler Pennsylvania was a a level five alarm alert to this country that um that our elected officials our leaders the president the uh former president are not safe and we need to re-evaluate uh from the ground up exactly how we are to go about providing that protection um the information you provided uh dealing with eight cartridges from the roof uh the Drone the fact that uh two explosive devices were found in the car one at home that was a remote detonation device that he had on him uh the fact that his phone was using encrypted platforms he only had one phone correct oh sorry yeah he had one phone although we've identified other phones that he may have used that may not have been his phone so for example we think in certain instances he might have used his dad's phone again not necessarily related to the attack but we're trying to um we are trying to make sure that we process and exploit every device he could have used um and and we keep which is part of why I keep making this point which I know you all are probably tired of me making about this being an ongoing investigation because we keep identifying new pieces of equipment new accounts what have you and the fact that you are uh in real time informing us about what you're finding as you're performing this investigation is very helpful and clarifying the fact that he went to the range a day before and shot an AR now my understanding is that the AR he used um on the 13th was his father's is that correct well yes and no it was originally his father bought it legally but then our understanding so far is that his father then uh conveyed it to him sold it in fact to his son uh so originally his father's at the time of the shooting the shooters that's okay so that's new information was that provided to you by the father uh I think it was partly from that I think we also saw some documentation to support it okay um investigators also have said that the shooter posted quote July 13th will be my Premiere watch it as it unfolds on an online gaming platform sometime before he tried to assassinate president Trump can you confirm that and how much time elapsed between this posting and the attempt on July 13th so I'm I'm really glad you asked about that because uh that um is a situation where again in our effort to give real-time information since we've provided that information we have since learned that that uh July 13th Premiere um you know profile page on the gaming platform it turns out it was not the shooter okay that it was some other individual as part of some sick joke who after the shooting created a profile page pretending to be the shooter wow um and so of course we've now that person is now admitted to it and you know we but a my point being among the other challenges that we as investigators have you have people who uh create accounts in today's world create accounts pretending to be somebody that they're you know and it's not the actual person um now the that's troubling obviously it makes our jobs even harder as investigators thank you for clarifying that did he have a an online gaming account we we do believe he was a gamer and then he had different kinds of um gaming accounts so that's part of why we yeah any information glean from those not yet but again some of those are some of those uh legal process returns I'm still waiting on now during the attempted assassination krooks was wearing a t-shirt from a popular YouTube channel um have you been able to access his uh selection of YouTube videos that he's watched uh I believe we have seen some of the some of his you know search history um but I think we've got a ways to go on that uh I know there's some manual work that we're doing on that I think the most notable thing uh that we found uh recently uh which I I don't think has been shared until today is that on a laptop that we've that the investigation ties to him him uh that on July 6th he it revealed a Google search uh and his search if it was him again it's a laptop tied to him we obviously believe it's him but we'll we'll continue to investigate but his Google search was how far away was Oswald from Kennedy right um and horrifying yes absolutely um can you uh clarify that there that you have in your possession all the video that has that was taken on that day at the scene uh We've collected mountains of video uh part of the reason commit to providing us with that video well we're going to work with the committee uh and share information as best we can the part of the reason I hedged on whether we have it all is as the as you can appreciate in today's world uh everybody with a phone sure has the ability to take footage and so we're we're finding things kind of left and right you have all the law enforcement video uh I believe we have all the law enforcement video but I we're still collecting evidence um okay and I hope you would provide that to us and to the American people thank you yeld back gentan yields back director just to be clear the the photo and the message on the online gaming account um I think your testimony was to Mr Klein that that was somebody else posing as the shooter is that right correct somebody after July 13th okay created this profile pretending to be the shooter and sent us down a rabbit Trail which we've now tied off that's important information the gentle lady from Pennsylania is recognized I thank you Mr chairman thank you director Ray for being here and I want to add my my voice uh to the chorus of folks who are just devastated by the illness and passing of Sheila Jackson Lee what a champion uh what a role model I always called her the hardest working member of Congress she was everywhere on every issue uh she'll be greatly missed um director Ray I I thank you for what you said earlier which is leaning in this is such an extraord orary set of events the attempted assassination of Donald Trump uh the stealing of the life of a father a firefighter somebody who protected lives Corey uh comparator serious injuries to two others uh so I I thank you because you are trying to give us what you can without jeopardizing the investigation and I think that's very helpful um did the shooter also um investigate other high-profile folks folks we had heard some reporting around that early on well you say investigate other folks I think um this is a place where we still have a lot more work to do part of what uh part of what we did find was uh a bunch of cached images of a variety of public figures um but again cached images are those images that you get when you like you pull up a news story from any number of news sites if they're photographs in the article those images are automatically put into your the cache on your computer so it doesn't necessarily mean that you were searching for that person's image uh we do have um the fact that starting around uh at at the least around the period um early July so this the search that I just mentioned uh related to O wal and Kennedy uh that's about July 6th which is the same day uh we believe that he uh registered for the rally uh and the day before he traveled to the grounds for the first time and so I think there is a certain amount of searches related to former president Trump that during that period uh we seeing um consistent with some kind of planning or reconnaissance if you want to call call it that in advance of the rally but that's sort of confined to that or or concentrated maybe is a better word uh in that July period you know after the announcement of the rally and before the shooting can you speak to the conveyance of the gun this is a 20-year-old young man his father owned the gun originally AR-15 am I correct uh AR St yeah um 20-year-old man when did the father sell the gun to him and what documents do you have how much money transpired what date was uh yeah I don't I don't I I do know that I say I know we believe based on what we've seen that his father uh after purchasing the gun legally sold the gun to his son I don't know that I have the date uh of that transfer or the amount of the transfer although we may be able to get that to you as a follow I just don't have it in front of me do you know when the father bought it we know I don't as I'm sitting here testifying in front of you I don't have that in front of me so I don't have it my face wonder if it's approximate to this event uh I do not believe that the gun was purchased uh that is the gun that was used I do not believe it was purchased particularly close in time to the shooting um but how far in advance it may have been a year before give or take but again that I we'll go back and and double check that on you I do know that uh on the um the day of the shooting uh at about 1:30 p.m. he bought 50 rounds of ammunition so uh if you think about the day of uh or if you back up a little bit so the day before he goes to the shooting range the day of he goes to the grounds uh the morning of the event for I think around an hour uh he buys the ammunition at around 130 uh at around 350 is when he's back on the grounds uh of the rally and that's when we used uh the Drone that I've talked about already today and then of course um f forward till just after 6 o'cl when uh the worst happened and we had thought uh maybe over the weekend there was a conversation around a classified briefing for members I hope that will happen uh as soon as it's feasible uh for you and for the other uh agencies involved uh and he he got off eight shots and the reporting is that that was in under six seconds he got off eight shots uh fatal uh to one my question that I'll leave you with and I know I'm over time Mr chairman is we all decry political violence we decry any violence but we decry the rise in political violence what can you tell us that we could do better what can what do you need uh for you to be able to help help this country reduce the political violence Tendencies I think this is a moment uh where in the most Stark way possible all of us as Americans uh can see uh how out of control political violence is in this country and it's an opportunity for everybody to come together um and to try to show that this is not the kind of thing we're going to tolerate in this country um the FBI's role is to focus on violence and threats of violence uh but there is a role for others in the Public Square to address how people communicate in this country and every day in in our jobs we see uh in social media in terms of threats that people are we get you know thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of tips reported to us and the language that's out there uh is just mind bingly hateful uh and and violent sounding uh people sometimes as figures of speech use Expressions that that are very violent expressions and so that that is a part of it we can all do better uh in kind of being a little more thoughtful and measured in our language but again the FBI we got to stay in our lane our lane is the violence and the threats of violence there's a role for everybody as Americans to try to see if we can take the temperature down great thank you and thank you for the extra time y back gentleman from North Dakota is recognized thank you Mr chairman uh and I really appreciate you correcting the gaming thing about this is my coming out party because we're asking you to do something and we've had acrimonious you and I have actually had acrimonious but we're not here for a got you moment we're just not not on this and we're asking you to give us information before the investigation is complete my only recommendation or suggestion would be when that happens don't necessarily wait till you ask because don't wait for us to ask because there's a and I'll go through why in a second I appreciate you coming in I appreciate you telling us things I appreciate you guys going against essentially your normal policy of waiting till an investigation is done because the American people need to know it but here's why there a guy with a rangefinder walking around that everybody noticed and then couldn't find you know he's scaled to the top of a roof with an 150 yards line of sight to uh the presidential Republican former presidential candidate by climing climbing a drain pipe and then you said uh some equipment it was being pointed out by rally goers everywhere they could and nobody could figure it out there's maybe supposed to be local law enforcement in the building either upstairs or downstairs and all of this was going on and I was talking to a colleague of mine yesterday on the floor and it's like I hate the conspiracy theories that come out but this is and this is not the FBI's prview this is the secret Services preview this is so comically like inept to the average to the average North Dakota citizen is just they look at this and they're like how could this possibly happen and so when we by you giving us information in a really meaningful way even though we know the investigations ongoing and things can change that at least helps us to deal with that and figure out where we're at and so I mean and you're doing all this this guy had no combat training no counter surveillance training that you're aware of right I'm sorry I couldn't quite hear that no combat trading oh uh no not I don't think any certainly know what we would call what you and I would call combat training obviously he was a fairly uh active um recreational shooter so he did plenty of of shooting a lot of guys uh no not I don't think any certainly know what we would call what you and I would call combat training obviously he was a fairly uh active um recreational shooter so he did plenty of a lot of guys in Western North Dakota right I mean all of those different things and somehow we came within under of an inch of a presidential candidate being shot and killed within a hundred days out from an election and when you look at it so just I I just want to be really clear clear because there is a lot of this there is no evidence of another shooter right another shooter to to to I mean there's the counter sniper who took out the shooter right but you're talking about like another anybody else and then you're you're looking at us online and seeing all that but there's no evidence he had any other accomplices on scene that day correct correct that not that we've seen yet certainly and you said and we overs sites had a hearing DHS had a hearing we're having a hearing now um the inspector General's going to investigate uh we're probably announcing a bipartisan outside panel but there's another investigation too right because somebody has to clear the shooter like even though it is a secret service officer deploying his I mean when an FBI when when an FBI agent kills what somebody in the line of duty what's the process so uh we have what we call an agent involved shooting is I think what you're getting at we whole we have a whole process get put on Leave paid leave get a lawyer depending on how it is right it well those some of those things depend but we have our Inspection Division does uh a shoot review of each time when there's one of these situations and they sometimes have to coordinate with local prosecutors who are also doing some kind of review but um but so yes Secret Service would have a similar kind of process for the counter I mean because you have to actually establish one of I mean one of the defenses to homicide just like I mean you don't do it in a court system the same way everybody else does but you have to justify that that shooting was justified so when the FBI does that do they conduct that all internally uh most of the time yes every once in a while there's a situation where the Inspector General gets involved do you know how the Secret Service does it I I don't okay and I just think that's important because when we're talking about how this works and I don't think anybody is arguing it wasn't anybody who's seen it knows what happens but it's just it it knowing it and making sure that the process is handles correctly and I just want to shift gears with my last 30 seconds really quickly because we had a hearing on the northern border in Grand Forks and you were talking about specific threats from Iran but also generally uh and we've diverted an exceptional amount of resources of the Southern border our our interactions 114% increase in apprehensions and the one specific thing with all due respects to my friends and my neighbors from Canada it's a lot easier to get into Canada for some of these countries where we have these real issues with terrorist threats than it is to the United States particularly Iran and are you guys monitoring that and making sure whatever coordination you have with Canada that we're paying attention to that as well we have a an excellent relationship we the FBI with our our Canadian counterparts both uh RCMP you know the mounties as some people euphemistically call them uh and uh CIS they're um they're my uh intelligence service counterparts uh we have great relationships with them and terrorism is I find uh probably the number one thing we talk about yeah and they're understaffed and overworked on the northern border and they can use all the help you get with that I Y back gentleman yields back gentleman from Maryland recognize thank you Mr chairman uh director thank you uh for today I I think uh I greatly appreciate your cander uh I know it's highly unusual to go into this level of detail during an active investigation and I know it's a special and unique circumstance um given the nature of what happened that day I I'll ask my colleagues that uh we not try and take Vantage of this in in other circumstances I think we need to be careful about um pressuring uh our investigators you know to disclose information in the middle of an investigation um in a casual or or routine way but thank you for what you've you've done here uh today I do want to mention this too like uh Congressman Kare I went up to Butler with Homeland Security U committee and the um had a chance to meet with a number of the people there including people who were there at the rally and um you know I and several of them were elected officials in fact one of them that spoke with me a lot was sitting directly behind Mr Trump when he was shot and she had video that she'd taken and she'd love to share it with you all uh but she mentioned a couple of things too that I I hope you all um will have a chance to have conversations about and I know some of it's going to be in the Secret Service Lane some's going to be in the FBI Lane but uh one of the things she talked about was the fact that the day before the shooting um she and other uh officials in the town and people who just wanted to prepare the stage um showed up and started working on putting the Bunning up and and decorating it but the point she noted was that none of them had been vetted there was nobody there to keep an eye on them and make sure that you know everything that was being done was appropriate um and she actually sort of thought in this in the context of hearing that a gun was found uh or a gun was perhaps hidden at the site before the the shooter was U uh able to get it and use it I don't know those details but those are some of the things that that came up that day she also mentioned that uh there was sort of the Outer Perimeter so you had a perimeter around the stage that the Secret Service had set up beyond that you had a field and then you had the uh the building where the uh the company was and the shooter got on the roof apparently there was a sort of a second level of a perimeter there that wasn't particularly restricted from an access standpoint as as with the street that was just beyond that so she raised and another another elected official raised uh as well issues about security that may actually kind of get into what you're talking about what whether the ladder was there how the guy got on the roof there were all sorts of issues with respect to that and there was a lot of people as you said that had videotape I just I talked to three that were showing me videos while I was standing out there on the and the grounds but I had a couple of questions to ask of you briefly um apparently there was no secret service recordation of communications during that day um you know there's no no no radio runs we call them but there's no tapes do you know if there any recorded conversations among law enforcement from that day I don't know the details of that I I I believe there may be some um but I don't um I don't have in front of me exactly what what we've seen uh or heard okay and then with respect to email Communications there were a lot of issues about you know because my personal view having gone to the site was that they shouldn't they just shouldn't have had the ra the rally there it should not have been permitted I thought there were just too many roofs you know he picked one but there was like a half dozen others that he could have picked on the other side of the field and as uh Eli crane a congressman who was a sniper for the US military said there was a water Tower uh that actually would have been a better site probably the so that uh Secret Service should have used but could have been used as well but had the leadup to that decision and Congressman kareah raised this who made this decision about how to pick the site and apparently there was back and forth between local law uh enforcement Secret Service and the campaign and I was kind of curious as to whether that's something that your investigation is going into or not so I think that primarily Falls within the scope of the other the two other reviews that is the inspector the DHS Inspector General review and the outside panel independent panel that's been announced uh certainly we are interviewing uh law enforcement Personnel um but the security preparations the adequacy of the security preparations that's the other lane that's the other Lane right I only got 15 seconds left quick question for you with a probably not a quick answer but this scenario is kind of the worst case scenario for from a couple of standpoints got a lone wool shooter with no red flags that we've heard of so far um you know nobody should have known that this was coming he didn't have a criminal record and that sort of thing easy access to an assault weapon I had a discussion like this with um I think Congressman Roy and Congressman Bishop several months ago what is it we can do to try and preempt those kinds of scenarios we've got gun violence all over the country including in my district this is one example but you know this scenario is the worst possible that I can think of from the standpoint of no intervention prevention efforts that can be put in place to try and address it but I'm kind of curious if you have any thoughts to the contrary on that I don't know that I have uh any uh magic solution to to the problem and I certainly don't want to be um proposing you know legislative ideas that's not really my role um certainly uh dangerous weapons especially high-powered weapons in the hands of the wrong person uh represent a a real concern for for law enforcement um including two law enforcement uh sometimes as the victims as we saw very tragically down near Miami with two of our agents killed um but that's probably all I can say on that I do while we're on the subject of firearms Mr chairman I do get I have an answer to congresswoman Dean's question I might as well give it now um which is about the the purchase of the firearm uh I'm I'm told that the father purchased the firearm in 2013 so quite a while ago and then he sold it to his son in October of 2023 thank you thank you Mr chairman I yield back and thank you Mr director for your great work uh I'd ask unanimous consent that we enter into the record a statement from representative Kelly um and some questions for the Bureau of representative M Kelly represents Butler actually that's his hometown so without objection those will be entered into the record and we we'll make sure you get those director gentleman from New Jersey is recognized thank you Mr chairman before I begin and this is not directly with you actually I just wanted to straighten something out I know my colleagues the gentlemen and the gentle ladies from Georgia Washington California uh Pennsylvania they all mention project 2025 well I don't know how they expect you to know about that number one uh I'm pretty damn involved involed I don't really know a whole lot about it but president Trump has made it clear and we're going to say it again we'll say it over and over again that there are some things he disagreed with some things he agreed with that he wasn't that familiar with it was from the Heritage Foundation and that was just raw politics to be honest with you it was just because 2025 has some things in it that they believe are really going to offend American people and it very well may and so they want to pin it on the presidential candidate he didn't author it he didn't condone it he didn't put a seal of approval on it it's getting old it really is we do this with other thing just like in this committee when anything goes wrong anything somehow Donald Trump's name has to be brought into it and it gets tiring it's politics over reality second thing about picking the site I was intimately involved in the Wildwood rally the biggest rally president Trump's ever had biggest political rally in the state of New Jersey uh I had spoken to the president about about it and he wanted to do it on the beach because we had over 100,000 people and let me tell you we had everybody out there because they were concerned the Secret Service and the local police and the the County police and just about every entity could be and so they had behind it was that iconic setting they had the Ferris wheels on the pier and all the stuff they had agents up in there they had agents in the ocean in the water in boats they had people coordinating working with each other and talking with each other because they knew it was a risk so we chose a site that was difficult the president did and I thought it was a great site but nevertheless we the law enforcement responded properly something went wrong here you can't blame this on Donald Trump as well the site was chosen it's the responsibility of those who serve in law enforcement to make sure that he was safe period and I'm sure you'll find out why um on another tangent here you know I I've got to wonder how many qualified people were passed in order for director cheel to get her 30% quota that's a lousy way to run an agency especially when it's dealing with law enforcement to say we've got to have 30% of anything and I worry about these practices because it's policy over protection and director Ray um I know that some things were left to you I understand that but one of your early acts on the Biden presidency was hiring the FBI very first Chief diversity officer and since that time and even before your time but and you're going to disagree with me but respectfully I'm going to disagree with you recruitment standards under your lead has resulted in deterioration in many areas including physical fitness illicit drug use Financial irregularities mental health issues full-time work experience and integrity uh and I know you dismissed them but in October 2023 they are a prestigious group of retired FBI special agents and analysts both Express concern regarding the FBI's willingness to recruit agents that quote I'm not saying this they said it not me can't even pass the new relaxed standards for Fitness who are illiterate in some cases and need lessons educational lessons don't want to work weekends or after hours their words and have serious disabilities or mental health issues which is not the place for them most of your agents are great people people I love them I love them for what they do I'm not criticizing most but these new standards don't you think this is a hindrance and reduces the morale of the vast majority of good people that you have in the FBI and ask you for a quick answer because I have a few other things so I I respect our retired agents that many of them come to our graduations now um and I can tell you emphatically that they are mistake those who think that we have lowered our standards whether it's on physical fitness or anything else are mistaken and you can prove that the facts back me up on that the standards are the same today as they were a decade ago I mean they've changed in some ways appropriate in fact the physical fitness standards depends on how far back you go but the physical fitness standards that our current graduates have to have to graduate from quanico actually exceed some of the physical fitness standards that were in place if you go back far enough with some of our retirees but what I would tell you I think part of the reason reason there's confusion and again I accept that these folks are raising their concerns in good faith but we have actually access to the facts and part of the reason I think there's confusion just take the physical fitness thing as an example is that before you had to pass the the physical fitness test before you showed up to quanico now you have to pass it in order to get a badge at quano the standard hasn't changed you still have to pass the same test the same 12 points standard Etc all that stuff applies the only difference is you can pass it while you're at quanico but if you don't pass that same test that's been in place for a long time now you don't get a badge and we will dismiss people from quanico and we do who don't pass I know I have to wrap this up and I appreciate that if you could get us information that substantiates what you say that should be easy enough to do to the whole committee I'd appreciate it you know feelings in this Administration are more important than functionality it's resulted in a border crisis we don't have time to talk about that you've spoken out about it I appreciate that you've spoken out about it and I think it's also resulted in shortages in our nation's law enforcement in our military and I think it makes us less safe so I look forward to seeing those statistics and that proof because I have people talking in my ear that told me otherwise and I yield back gentleman yields back gentleman from Alabama is recognized thank you Mr chairman director Ray I appreciate you being here today and I certainly appreciate your forthcoming this and and and giving us information that I think uh that the American people want and you know to me it's you have a very difficult job right now um in the past and undery certainly uh the Russian collusion narrative got out pretty heavily and uh that came out of the FBI with the F and warrants and that sort of stuff spot on General Flynn and then the laptop issue the hunter Biden laptop issue which FBI actually had in their possession so I have 800,000 people there BS that I represent and our job is to restore trust and so in a lot of the hearing we've had this week they said well the FBI is investigating that the F the every answer was the FBI is investigating this and so uh in some ways it kind of landed in your lap and I appreciate you being here but uh you know it's just for me the question of how does a 20-year-old acting along get a long gun a rangefinder we know he bought a ladder I guess he Recon here and realized he didn't need the ladder to get on top of the building so he left it at the house get on a roof within 150 yards of the most one of the most famous people in the the world I guess now and a former president how does that happen and how do we restore trust in the American people at the FBI and the DHS who is under May orc's director now how do we verify and get trust back to the American people that these agencies are really working to protect the president and and I'm not trying to place blame specifically but I never thought that we'd raid his house I never dreamed that they'd raate a former president's house I certainly never imagined that they would actually indict him and I felt well they will'll never find him guilty and now we've had a threat on his life so how do we restore trust in the government of this country and the agencies that are here that we pay and provide $3 billion a year to the Secret Service to protect some of the leading political candidates in America that's a lot I'm sorry that's a lot of questions but I'm just I mean I'm gonna give you a little room to talk right no no I I listen I obviously you included a lot as you said in your question and as you might imagine I disagree fairly strongly with a number of parts of it uh but sensitive to the time I guess what I would say this I can speak to my approach to running the FBI again the FBI is not involved in the physical security of the rally that's you know we come in as the investigators afterwards and as I've said before our investigation is an investigation of the shooter and his attack there are separate investigations the Inspector General of DHS and this outside independent panel that's been announced that would be looking at Secret Service as performance and those I think will be important to trust and confidence if you will in secret service but from the FBI perspective we can't promise that everybody's going to like the results of what we do right what we can promise is that we're going to do our best to do the work in the right way that's all we can do and so I keep telling our folks every day on this and on everything else our Focus has to be we got to do the work in the right way we got to make sure we do the work in the right way and then no matter matter who likes it because everything we do somebody doesn't like it and we it's a credibility issue at this point do do the American people trust what the FBI and the doj is going to tell them and you know that's the thing with this over when I was early on and I've only been here about three and a half four years now but the American people was the fear of the weaponization of government so now we have this issue Tucker Carlson asked the president he said are you afraid they'll kill you I remember that interview and I thought wow I can't believe he went there but here we are and so as we work through this process I think it's so important and I think the chairman hit on this is the audio of of the shooter this you you've interviewed the sniper Secret Service sniper that took out the target was he waiting on a green light what was going on and why did the why did the Mr Crooks have a chance to get off eight rounds and we knew he was on the rooftop I don't know for how long but we know he was a marked Target so was he trying to get the green light and was somebody not giving it to it so again the the performance uh the adequacy of the performance of secret service will be the subject of the Inspector General investigation and this outside independent panel what I can tell you um and I'm glad you asked the question because this goes to something that we uh was part of an earlier exchange um the the first time that anybody from law enforcement uh saw the sub subject uh on the roof was a few minutes before the shooting not with a gun they didn't at that point they didn't but they local law enforcement a few minutes before saw him on the roof and started radioing did he have a backpack going up the roof did they well nobody has we haven't found anybody yet who's who saw him okay climbing up the roof the reason we uh the reason I've talked about how we think he got on the roof is that's based on Forensic uh our evidence response to in forensic and analysis uh that were you know without getting into all the details Footprints and things like that that we can uh you know fingerprints Etc that we can see how we got on but we don't have an eyewitness at the moment who saw him climbing up so a few minutes before the shooting uh local law enforcement uh saw him on the roof again not no weapon identified at that point a few seconds before the shooting is when the law enforcement officer that that I've talked about already uh saw is one was assisted by another officer who saw Up on the Roof saw the shooter in a prone uh shooting position with the gun turns how long did that happen before that was that that sighting that is the first time to my knowledge the first time anybody from law enforcement saw him with a weapon that is seconds before he shot at president Trump thank you Mr chairman I yeld back so did the counter sniper not see the bad guy the shooter until after he fired a shot I mean until after the the subject fired a shot until after the I don't yeah I don't uh I don't know the answer to that it's possible we've already determined that but I I just as I sit here right now I don't have that but I can yeah I think that's a logical next question with with where the gentleman from Alabama's was question was going the gentl from California is recognized for five minutes director R to the best of your understanding how close did the Assassin's bullet come to killing president Trump my understanding is that either it or some shrapnel uh is what you know grazed his uh his ear so I don't know that I have the the ACT what said very very close you would agree yes is this the biggest security failure that you've seen in your career well uh certainly I think director former director cheel has already uh I think acknowledged that this was uh a significant at the very least a significant operational failure I forgot her exact words but I I will defer uh on that I think we really haven't seen anything like this in at least decades in this country right the the attempted assassination of a president current or former uh is a historic event was this a sophisticated plot that uh Thomas uh krooks carried out well uh I think probably depends on your definition of sophisticated right so uh on the one hand he's a a 20-year-old um seems from what we've seen so far loner uh you know without a you know a lot of um elaborate criminal his without any criminal history or anything like that on the other hand um he did clearly do some level of planning and Recon when did the planning start to the best of your know what when did the planning start well we're still drilling into that but we know we assess that uh that on July 6th so a week in advance for example uh it seems to be that he seems to become very focused on it because that's when as I've testified here today that's when it the laptop that we've tied to him has the Google