Love, Loss, Liberty and Legacy with Rep. Thomas Massie

you are showing up at a time when America needs you so much she was building an itum barium cic oxide superconductor on this Farm what you represent to the majority of Americans is somebody with a backbone and it doesn't matter if you're registered Republican or Democrat we say this in Congress right like staff is policy I don't want all the same ideology in my office you know you need to have arguments inside the office there's 1% of Americans are now registered Independents there's a lot of power now in the independent base I don't want the freom caucus to get mad at me but just because you're in the freedom caucus doesn't mean you've got a spine and you will stand up and do the right thing every day I'm Nicole Shanahan welcome to back to the people podcast which highlights the growth of a movement uniting America where our government is free from corporate capture and where we give voice back to the American public Congressman Massie thank you so much for uh tuning in with us today I'm back to the people podcast I've been a huge fan of yours what you represent how you go about it how you conduct yourself your history um and I just also wanted to tell you that you know when your wife passed I wanted to reach out and send a not I hadn't met you yet but that had massive impact on millions of Americans and we're all with you as you go through this difficult time and um she I I mean I followed your story and how you both met and you know we don't we don't have to get too deep into it but I just wanted to say that her Legacy and her memory and her like she is so honored in this country that means a lot to me um I would tell you so we're you know about uh eight weeks away from her passing and it's actually gotten harder for me um because I didn't realize I was in shock you know and then that's worn off um but it's a it's a tribute that so many people uh were concerned and cared about her my superpower was I was telepathically connected to a genius um who knew knew more about me than me and was able to consume so much information that I needed to know we had a deal I took a vow of illiteracy and she read all the books and told me what was in them yeah you know with sort of like a JPEG compression because we could you know talk in shorthand almost and so it really was a big loss to me and you know the stuff that we're talking about today I'll probably say we a lot you know we talk about being independent but uh you know humans aren't meant to be alone and to do things like to be off the grid or even to get into politics without losing your soul you have to have another person um that's watching out for your soul I hear that loud and clear I um you know she she comes across as such a genius and you guys went to MIT together and I know that there's no substitute for that but we just all want you to know that if you if you ever need anything or yeah we're here for you and and I hear what you say because I couldn't do what I'm doing right now without my partner Jacob yeah and he is the other half of my brain and he is the one that calls before even I can call and it is really the only way to do politics with soul is to have that kind of partnership at home and and then to raise kids together too and to talk about what's going on with them and I I think you're are you a grandfather now too yes I am I'm not allowed to disclose too much about my grandson you know sure um I did a Christmas picture once with a bunch of machine guns that got my whole family kind of involved for better or worse and so um the grandson doesn't go in the pictures not yet not he has free choice later on uh but you know back to the spouse thing when you know I'm I'm not that good at picking out before they're elected who will sell their soul and who will not but I have noticed a pattern and that is if the spouse is involved um with the candidates activities there's a much better chance that they will not sell out because that's the person they don't want to let down yep and if that person has is like-minded um and engaged then I've I've noticed a pattern and then also when somebody gets elected I asked well like Ronda and myself for instance we would uh try to meet with the candidate and the spouse you know and make it sort of a double date and the spouse needs to know what the candidate is going to end up the situations they'll be in and and one other quick thing the you know what's behind me is the farm that I live on but this is the farm that Rhonda grew up on this is her family farm and uh I showed up here right behind me U for our first date to pick her up and she was driving a tractor uh with a hay Bell on the back now that was our first official date I had been to this Farm before that to help her with her science fair project oh she was building an itum barium cupric oxide superconductor on this Farm hell yes yeah and I don't know anything about chemistry but I was like the champion science fair winner for the county and I build robots right so it was like totally plausible that it I had a legitimate purpose to come see her even though I had no idea how to help her with her project I didn't know enough about chemistry to be dangerous other than how to make fireworks and you know pyrate Technics yeah um she doing Quantum she was doing quantum mechanics and quantum chemistry yes she was doing quantum chemistry and I was just blowing stuff up with potassium night I knew potassium nitrate and and carbon um yeah I knew how to mix those things but I didn't know how to mix itum and barium and copper and oxides wow wow wow that's a beautiful story thank you for sharing that I mean what a beautiful memory and um you know you're you're back at it you've come back to work in Congress um I want people to understand how hard it is to do what you do every day you are showing up at a time when America needs you so much and at a time that I can't imagine how hard it is for you to show up every day and what you are doing and and how you are you have broken the duopoly you have called out the collusion you have stayed true to what is right and and what is The Shining Northern Light for this country and um I I just have to say I first found out about your work um as it related to issues around um overseas spending on Wars and the way that you put it you say look America is best when we raise our flag first why are we raising other people's flags on the floor of Congress right now yeah I got in trouble for showing the video of everybody waving foreign flags on the floor of Congress like they were going to reduce my salary what yeah the the sergeant-at-arms like threatened my staff uh here in Kentucky and uh I just double down though I'm like bring it on uh if you if you're G to yeah try that yeah try punishing me for outing what's actually going on here in this chamber and let's see how that works out for you and they back down thankfully but you do need to double down I think a lot of times when when you know you're doing the right thing and maybe the rules are wrong um you know massive non-compliance or righteous non-compliance I would say is in order um a lot of times and that's what I was exercising when I showed what they were doing on the floor of the house when the you know that money passed to go to the other country and they were just waving the flags yeah it's it's unbelievable to me that and to go back to these rules because I'm experiencing some of these um really strange rules right now that are designed to keep the public from accessing the core principles of democracy the things that make democracy a democracy right is really being informed as to what's going on so why do you think we've gotten to a place is it just so many layers of corruption um that that we're not able to access the real information of what's going on has the government just become so complacent in its embedded corruption that um it just feels like it can get away with us and quash voices like yours and mine and rfks well let me give you an example of a goofy rule that doesn't really help anybody um so and when I'm in Washington DC if uh a lobbyist wants to take me to dinner they're not allowed to pay for my dinner because you know people believe if somebody's buying you food that could um bias you but what they can do is hand me a $5,000 check and I can put that in my campaign and then I can pay for dinner with the campaign so you know I'm glad that rule is there to protect everybody it really doesn't stop anything but that's an example of a rule that uh makes people feel good but there's there are always ways around it um the incumbents write the rules and so there's going to be a bias to protect the incumbents and the bias is against transparency and so what you know people say you're one of 435 what can you do and I do feel that way some days like what can I do is just one of 435 well what I've decided is the most important thing that I can do that's not getting done some days and this is why I run for re-election because I'm not sure who would do this is I can impose some uh just harsh transparency like in the house of repres resentatives if one person asks for a recorded vote you have to give them the recorded vote like you don't even need a second it and so um one person can force people to show up to work like if they're passing it by unanimous consent and there are days when that wouldn't be happening if I weren't there but the reason I think transparency is important is um and Nicole I don't know how your listeners are going to take this but about six years ago I decided to quit blaming my colleagues for what was going on and I'm blaming the people who vote for them uh because and I don't want to pick any particular name uh uh as somebody who's not good but everybody got elected by people and the people need to make better decisions now where I give the people a pass is they're getting bad information or they're not getting enough information and a lot of people are working hard to get they go to work they don't have time to watch TV and even if you watch TV it probably wouldn't be the right story so what I'm trying to do to fix that problem we have which is the wrong people are getting elected with because of bad information is I'm trying to give people better information and they hate me for breathing air in Washington DC when I do this but that's okay but how else are we going to have an informed voter base they need the information and it's something that we're our my voter base our rfk's voter base is learning as well as to what degree we have been lied to by the by the popular press and it's been um a learning experience for me I was comfortably in the world of CNN and NBC and ABC and and that was where I got my news as and and this is the current state of you know t of millions of Americans um and so they continue to vote for candidates that are doing things that aren't in their best interest and aren't in the best interest of their children aren't in the best interest of future generations and I'm watching the the brainwashing and manipulation that's happening right now is on a scale seems to be progressing as the sophistication of social media progresses yeah um and and the where the Tick Tock brainwashing is happening right now it's it's really at a scale that um you would compare to something utterly dystopian you have these small Clips music repetition dance you get people to move the more you can get people to repeat after you just physically as well it programs your brain um to be compliant to whatever the next message is so they have Tik Tok but we have memes I feel like we're winning the meme War uh okay and as you know you mentioned disinformation I want to bring up a meme I saw and expand on it the other day the meme says and I forget what the the pictures are behind the meme but it's somebody talking to somebody and says the reason we have all this inflation are the greedy corporations and then the other person says back did the people who printed 10 trillion dollar tell you that and yeah of course that's the those are the ones who are telling you it's the greedy corporations are the ones who caused the inflation by printing the money I would just add to it is that also the people who um are protecting those corporations with by burdening their competition um you know with legislation or rules that aren't even passed by Congress is it also those people who are telling you that these are greedy corporations the people are helping the corporations be monopolies through the laws yeah it is so that's just one piece of disinformation that's out there that I saw you go after and I'm I watched uh your interview I think it was with Cuomo is that who you yeah and yeah this past week yeah he started with the um you know we've got inflation and what about the price Caps or the proposal of price caps and I'm really glad you you didn't waste any time calling that out like price caps are not the answer on food first I mean we got Farmers that are barly struggling I mean the reason foreign countries are buying our land and the reason you have this uh aggregation of small farms being sold into big corporations is because the little guys can't keep their heads above water currently the way the rules are written and and to add another rule which is to say you can only charge this much for the product is not going to fix that problem what you need to do is change the rules and and there the rules are written by as I said the incumbents and in this case the incumbents include the corporations who are there you know I'm you know I'm I have taken pack money I'm not going to say I'm my hands are clean now people who given me pack money probably regret giving it to me in a lot of cases because they don't get what they're paying for or what they think they're paying for but getting an honest candidate that's what we all should be paying for I would hope so but the people who give to people on the a committee the corporations who give people on the a committee well those are corporations who have business in front of the a committee and they actually get a say in who gets on the a committee like w yeah the lobbyists on K Street whatever the committee is they have a disproportionate um it's almost like a a beauty contest and one of the judges is K Street and one of the judges is the D or the nrcc the fundraising wing of the two parties um and you know another judge is the chairman of the committee but they have I mean the feedback there is all wired wrong you get the wrong results and so for instance um on the food Freedom stuff we're we're starting there I will have to give the chairman of of this a committee a shout out he is listening to me about some of my legislation and starting to think about putting pilot programs for that in there I'm just saying you know give it a chance do a pilot program see if what I'm telling you is right and um I've got their ear now and so that's a good thing but for the most part uh the a committee is going to listen to the big a interests and that's what the bills are about and it's because they not only do they give money to the people on those committees um they uh they get a say in who goes on those committees I can't believe that they have a say as to who goes on those committees like there's they're not qualified and clearly there's going to be such enormous bias how is this allowed if if if I as a concerned citizen filed suit would that even make it anywhere because that is clear um it's clear corruption it's just Prima corruption so I've gone down this path like okay if you did this in a I just came from a meeting with a bunch of Mayors here in my district okay if the city council operated the way Congress did and they sold this resource like membership in a in a public entity based on how much money they were given they would those city councilman and the mayor would be perw walked right with handcuffs on to the local jail or to the state prison okay but you can do this in Congress they just did that to the mayor of Oakland the FBI raided the home of the mayor of Oakland due to some relationship with a recycling company that she had allegedly taken campaign funds from that she had given a a city contract to FBI rated her yeah so it's you never see the FBI like on on K Street raiding anybody or Congressman for anything like that and here's what I found out when I questioned this they said well the Committees are outside of the official Congress that um committees are not mentioned for instance in the Constitution so you can do what you want with the Committees so for let me give you an example we have like Guam US Virgin Islands uh DC those uh territories have delegates in Congress who don't get to vote on the floor of the house but they can vote on in committees and they can introduce legislation in committees because committees are considered outside of the Constitution and not part of the main function of Congress and so um that's also how they get away with extorting your membership on these committees based on how much money you've given the party I mean this is a true honest fact find anybody in congress I dare them right now watching your podcast or listening to it a challenge any of the 435 members to come on your show or any show and say what I'm saying is not true which is you are expected to pay rent to the party whether it's DC or the nrcc to be on those committees and the reason they claim they can rent those committees is none of that business is official until it comes to the floor of the house and it gets voted on on the floor of the house was this something that's been tried yet in court I mean to say that the Committees sit outside of the Constitution and therefore members of Congress that sit on those committees can sit outside of the bounds of the Constitution that doesn't make any sense at all I mean this would not pass like a basic legal analysis I mean the equivalent of that in um in a city council meeting would be having a quorum and meeting and deciding what business you're going to do before you go have the real meeting and that violates open records act and all those other things you have in the various States so you're not allowed I was in County government we were not allowed to have a quorum anywhere else and talk about County Business as officials unless it was in front of the people but again we violate that rule all the time in Congress so to your question Nicole I'm not an attorney but I have sued Nancy Pelosi um with an attorney help um and so what I've what I've come to understand is you have to have standing you have to show that you were harmed by this situation if you're a farmer though so say we got a coalition of farmers together farmers are actively being harmed by this small family Farmers um are actively being harmed by this every single day you've seen it I've seen it across the country um they are sucking the life out of the small midsize farmer and this is for every single crop literally Under the Sun as as well as meat production and if we had a coalition of farmers they they would I would imagine absolutely qualify for standing well here's how they get around that and not just to pick on the a committee I'm on the rules committee so the farm bill would come from the ad committee and go to the rules committee that I sit on and then it goes to the floor of the house and the and the court would say well you don't really have standing because ultimately these people and the a committee and the rules committee did their thing but ultimately it was voted on only by the elected officials and there was a public debate and it was done openly now you and I know the ba the cake was baked by the time it got there but there was an official vote now the people who might have standing would be members of Congress so there are 535 people let's say you didn't get the committee you wanted and so then you felt like you you didn't have as big of a voice and so you would try to sue based on that that um there's two problems with that um at least two problems maybe more uh one is who who in the system is going to bring that case because you kind of you're in there playing the game and you'll get no committees if you start trying to do that kind of stuff right you'll be on no committees and they'll say see that's what you get for for trying to do that the other is the courts and this I have a um some respect for the courts try not to tell Congress what to do even when Congress is doing things that are unconstitutional um because there is a separation of and it it is somewhat healthy to have that separation and our Founders knew it so for instance Nicole if as long as I go on the floor of the house if I want to slander you and uh and just tell outright lies about you I can do that that you have no recourse in the courts because there's something called the speech or debate clause in our Constitution and the founders put it there because what they saw was the king or private entities would would quash debate in Parliament by um just tying down the members of the legislature in a courtroom so this is you know there is this is something I do respect is keeping that separation so that Internal Affairs of Congress aren't really litigated in the courts and ultimately you could say look there 435 of you propagating this broken system and and ultimately the way to fix it is for Thomas Massie to tell you what they're doing and then you go get at least 218 new ones that'll fix it oh my goodness well we have our work cut out for us then getting getting 218 more Thomas Massie hold on wait can I can I know I just made the odds sound like really long but me tell you let me tell you the thing that I I say in town halls and the thing that I think internally that keeps me from losing hope is if you look at the Republican party in Congress let's say there are 220 of us um I think you there's 220 some of us if there's 220 I think there are 30 who wake up every day and there're it's like Groundhog Day they are programmed to do the wrong thing even if even if the right thing would get more votes and more money from the lobbyist they're still going to do the wrong thing okay it's just in their genetics so there are 30 who will do the wrong thing when the right thing suits everybody there are 30 who go and they're full of piss and vinegar and they are like they really believe what they campaigned on and they're trying to do the right thing now some of those are in the freedom caucus some are outside of the freedom caucus and not everybody in the freedom caucus is among those 30 like I'm I don't want the freedom caucus to get mad at me but just because you're in the freedom caucus doesn't mean you've got a spine and you will stand up and do the right thing every day okay and just because you're not doesn't mean you won't but let's say there's 30 in each Camp what's that leave 220 minus 30 minus 30 160 what are the other 160 doing they are following whichever tribe wins oh interesting because their algorithm and I can't fault them for this is well I don't write the rules I got to play the game I'm trying to help 750,000 people back in my district so I am obligated to play the game I got to figure out who's most likely to win speaker I'm trying to get a good committee I want to be a subcommittee chairman the only way you do that is by being on the winning side and so 160 are sitting there trying to figure out who's going to win that day and once the 30 that win win they line up like good soldiers and they follow them so here's what giv me hope now that may seem completely broken but let's say we go the the 30 who wake up and do the right thing let's say you give us 20 more um and and I know I'm talking about the Republican Party same thing applies to the Democrat Party okay same thing's going on over there so just transpose all what I'm saying to from R to D let's say we get 50 good Republicans instead of 30 we could and and their numbers go from 30 to 15 we could get somebody elected to speaker who's not unip party who actually uh wants to get up and do the right thing you know who in spite of what all the pack money says they they care about this country enough to know that even if it's their last term as Speaker they're going to do the right thing well and then when they become speaker those 160 will do whatever the good speaker wants like they're programmed they can't they're not Rebels that that is a pretty efficient model I won't lie so so let's unpack that because you know there's 51% of Americans are now registered Independents there's a lot of power now in the independent base across this country and they're not satisfied with either the Democratic Central party line or the Republican Central party line and they're looking for where to put their energy in each election and if it makes sense to point that 51% and say look this is about America fixing America doing what's right for this country making sure people who are representing us have a backbone and a spine and if we point them all towards those 20 individuals in those key races that are going to do the right thing right that seems like an from my point as being a donor great great economics in terms of how we try to reframe this in our mind um and and it actually speaks to this larger Trend that's happening which is that all of these really smart people are looking to those that identify as Republican on tickets to lead the way out of this uni party mess and people you wouldn't expect to be Republicans lifelong Democrats kind of now looking over at VC and and saying to themselves I kind of like that guy uh all of these Libertarians and independents that look at you I mean I saw pictures of you at the libertarian convention and you were like I mean the equivalent of Oprah the DNC I mean this was it was people were so excited they were lining up around the corner to see you and take a picture with you and it was it was really cool to see and so and I'm not even registered libertarian and but they let me in there but what you represent is what US Independents and Libertarians I'm just going to speak for the Libertarians because I love them so much but what you represent to the majority of Americans is somebody with a backbone and it doesn't matter if you're registered Republican or Democrat I've looked within the Democratic party I looked at Dean Phillips and I was like that guy is interesting um but what you represent people don't look at you and think Republican people look at you and think Thomas Massie the guy who's wearing the debt the debt clock on his built it too yeah built it and engineered it so look I think that that is you know I'm really happy you shared that um with with me just now because people feel so hopeless that there aren't 28 other Thomas masses in Congress and and they don't know where to put their effort in their time and and certainly that's been my case as a donor looking at the landscape and trying to find the right analysis um but once you go independent which so many Americans have you you you just are blind to whatever anyone's label is and you're looking at who's actually the real deal and and that's the blessing that's been I'd say that's been a blessing of this election cycle seeing that number go up by almost 10 points right so I have an admission to make by the way I have just for practical reasons I've been registered Republican since I was 18 because I've been in a state where it's a closed primary and so to have and in a county this County here behind you has voted Republicans since the Civil War so all of the people in our local courthouse who by the way have more influence on your lives than Congress does thankfully uh but all the people in the local courthouse are Republicans they have to vote in a primary but when I ran for my first political office which was County judge executive and I'm not a lawyer I'm not a judge but you're basically the mayor of the county that's the position I was running for I have all these independent and libertarian friends and I brought them voter Reg registration cards and I I begged and pleaded and got a lot of them to register Republican and I I know I'm going to hell for that or if I was already going to hell my flame is burning hotter because I registered Independence I knew I was doing the wrong thing but it was for a good reason well yeah and I think at the local level if if if that's necessary to get the Quorum that is needed to accomplish certain things that make sense for sure it makes sense um but you know the the incredible disillusionment in our country right now the thing you talk about like you know waking up every day and getting your teeth knocked out because you're trying to do the right thing against such incredible odds that is the feeling we all feel today is getting up putting our hope behind someone and getting our teeth knocked out and and that's been um we're still reeling from that a a week after um RFK making the decision to suspend his campaign our campaign is is that is we have millions of people across the country that feel so sad right now but what I'm trying to bring is that optimism I'm trying to say look we are still on 40 ballots across the United States and what we've done is we have found a partnership that is the right partnership for right now it's it's a coal ition where we get to be our own group we're not being absorbed into Trump's Camp by any measure we are our own people representing issues that matter so much to us the issues of chronic disease and farming are like two of the top big ones um addressing the debt big one and and we are looking at this with great optimism and I think that we can bring people along along this this bigger goal of it it's not necessarily we have to win everything we just have to know how everything works enough to use our energy to use our emotional resources and point it in the right direction yeah and um you know I know some people are disappointed but let me tell you what why I'm excited about it um and the and the Coalition that's formed by the way you're still on the ballot in Kentucky our secretary of state just confirmed so and and you know it's we're pretty sure Trump's going to win and right well which is the point of the Coalition we would only stay on the ballots in which there's a sure thing Trump's going to win and for like the disillusion Democrats to just get them out to vote right you know come vote for us we want to be there for them well and and then I think it also in some states depending on how the rules are written increases the chances that somebody can run as independent or get on the ballot easier um but to the point of people who are disillusioned if you think about this the where where Trump messed up in his first term was he picked some bad help I mean John Bolton come on what were you thinking okay so you know when I heard that um you guys are helping with the transition team and that means picking the people and staff is policy we say this in Congress right like staff is policy I joke that I don't want all the same ideology in my office uh because you would you know you need to have arguments inside the office so half of my people are ronpaul people and the other half are randpaul people and they argue all the time so we have we're very diverse ideologically in my office but that's a funny Vision yeah but in in Trump's Administration it's going to be so critical if he picks if he picks John Bolton's you're G to get warmed over neocon you know policy and but if he picks I don't want to I don't want to pick for him but there are lots of good picks out there for different things um there really are that's the thing that I think I'm so excited about is the broadening the spectrum of who can both bring that qualified voice but is going to be fresh and and not conflicted right and there's there are like even if you just look at the health um Arena the what falls under HHS I mean there are brilliant scientists out there economists Public Health Specialists who are ready to go and take this role and run with it and and these are you know across all the health agencies they're ready to go and Military as well I mean Tulsi has has incredible experience now having uh served in our military served in our Congress and she's gotten to know so many Fantastic people and she's done it from a sense of her own self-discovery as well which is which I think that lived experience is what makes people great in these roles yeah I love Tulsi gabard um she's great and we we text back and forth you know since she's left Congress we've stayed in touch and um very thankful for her her friendship just like let me talk about the current a secretary for instance let's talk about that cuz I'd love you to do that oh well I'm available you know I wouldn't it would it be interesting to have an act secretary who's butchered a chicken and grafted a fruit tree and castrated a steer like a bull to be a steer like and he knows what an abire is yes your local abattoir um and cares about them right and cares about them and knows the plight that small farmers are going through not just corporate Farmers um but let me talk about the current a secretary because this is the epitome of what is wrong whether you have Republicans Or democrats in there okay it's vsac okay that he was a crony when he got in there under Obama okay but Trump was President for four years so what did vilsack do for four years he went back and and lined his pockets he line oh how did you know how did you guess oh wild guess um so he became um there's something called the check off program they're promoting products and that they're helping farmers and it's called a check program because it used to be voluntary right the farmer could decide okay do I want to give a dollar of the money that I made from selling my steer at the auction house do I want to give a dollar of that um to to help promote these products well the Congress came in and said we're going to force you to give that dollar they shouldn't call it a check off program the box has already checked and you can't uncheck the Box um so uh they're taking money from Farm there's not it's a government program but you can't do a foia on it it's like one of these nasty combinations of government and Private Industry and um they pay their Executives in Vil sack's case he became the head of this after overseeing it right and and then he becomes ah head of it and draws a million dollars a year salary for four years and then Biden becomes president and guess what oh we got him he's he's collected his millions off the backs of Dairy Farmers who are going bankrupt every week there's another dairy farm goes out of business out of business yep and yeah we've lost we've lost so many of them in California there's less than I think there I mean there's really less than 10% of what was here just 20 years ago oh yeah it's uh it's it's scary and so now vilsack is in charge of this again like that is what's wrong with these appoint and so that's why I'm glad Trump's got RFK um help and your help on this transition team because I don't think you guys would pick a crony you know or recommend I mean I have reasons I don't like vilac and and it comes from my work in social justice and and working with black farmers in America but he so he treated Shirley Sherrod who is the first black woman to lead the state she was in state of Georgia at the USDA um lovely woman her husband was Charles sherad um who led the civil rights movement in Albany Georgia incredible people and she grew up in Royal Georgia and um this was during the Obama Administration she got her appointment um things were going well until a a piece of misinformation about her spread through the news at the time it was um this this was something Brett Bart when he was still a blogger Brett Bart before Brett Bart became like a a formalized news um vehicle uh had taken one of her speeches and doctored it and anyways but rather than being sensible about it Vil saac just immediately just cut her out there was no due process there was no investigation I mean she was treated in such a petty way because they were just trying to protect their their interest and and and they couldn't handle the pressure and they couldn't handle the media heat and so I mean this guy has no Backbone in my mind yeah um he really is just a a puppet of the institution and and and this was when I started to actually doubt Obama as well I was like how are you going to treat Shirley sherod that way without any due process you know because he came he supported um actually I think his office even pressured Tom vilac to do it but this is not how we ought to be running our government if we were so reactionary about things um like you know bloggers leaking stuff that might or may not be true um I mean no wonder we in the chaos we are today here in the United States like people need to have a backbone people need to have some moral Direction and people need to be in their jobs um for more reasons than their social connections yeah as soon as it cost them an ounce of political Capital they just cut the strings and and wouldn't spend any of their own political Capital doing the right thing but what I found I've put all of my political Capital like I've gone all in more than once to put all the chips on the table and put my faith in the people that if they if they see like you know when I posed the cares act and I said this is cronyism on steroids like you're GNA you're 95% of this money is going to end up in Wall Street and in the banks and you're gu you guys are getting 122 $100 checks that's the cheese and the trap and I and I said that's what's going on and I put all my chips in and it it worked out for me even though I thought I would lose everything but that's it just keeps it keeps I don't know someday I'll put all the chips in and it won't work I guess your legacy Thomas Massie is is literally going to be the legacy of saving America from the worst of itself and and you know it's it's not going to be I mean Trump trump is Trump but he's he's not the guy living off grid who is laser focus on the issues as you are who has shown the world that you can live sustainably um that you can live with dignity and that the American public freaking loves it I mean you are loved with a kind of Purity by by those who know you or know your work and follow your work that I have never seen seen before I mean Obama Obama was like a sparkling you know figure but I couldn't tell you anything about him other than he can shoot hoops pretty good right but like with you like I I know about your solar panel installations I know about your pizza oven I I know about how you built your house I mean you really show people how to live this version of the American dream which is sustainable healthy close to land and Earth connected a scientist I mean I I could go on and on and on well but let's but but before we do that let's talk about the debt what is it right now well I got F I do just to follow up very quick I want to tell you what I did this morning that um got me back to reality so I went to a vocational school and and met with kids and it's a it's a high school but they're doing computer science like vocational learning is different they're they're learning how to be nurses and High School okay and then I met with um six of my Mayors in a group about what we need to help the the local area but before I did all that my grandson stayed at my house and I heard his little feet he knocked on my door and came in and brought me my Crocs and tried to get me to put them on and I knew what he wanted we went out and picked a peach and he ate a peach off the tree um and so that's like that's what recharges my b battery not that I got some subcommittee gavel that you know is let me call a hearing or something so that's what keeps you know I know it's that's what keeps me going is worrying about the Next Generation so the debt okay that's a good segue I think in your second question which is what about the debt um I don't like everybody in Congress there's 435 and and people ask me does anybody else there care about the debt and I'm like well I think everybody cares it's just what is the degree of caring or the degree of understanding and again this goes back on the voters if you if people get elected promising free stuff and they come up here and they borrow the money to deliver it or if they send the money overseas and just put it on the tab and they get reelected I'm going to blame the voters at least some for this right I don't know anybody in congress who lost their reelection because they spent too much money I've not met one yet that should be the first grounds I mean when I'm looking at CEOs in my portfolio company and they're spending wildly it's it's somewhere between we got to fire them or we got to sue them right I mean look at Elizabeth Holmes like she's sitting in prison for embezzling you know for misappropriating investor funds that's what Congress does as a matter of habit is misappropriate funds but um Again part of that's on the voter but they keep getting reelected and so I think I really Nicole though I think we are approaching that point where um what the politicians have done is coming home to roost and there's and people are seeing it in inflation okay and those politicians are trying to blame everything except themselves and they are the ones Republican and Democrat I'm calling them both out I'm calling out Mike Johnson right here Mike Johnson do not pass an Omnibus do not pass a CR that doesn't cut spending you are part of the problem Mike Johnson you are a Republican and you are the problem sir I hope you listen to this podcast and you can make sure he hears it you cannot CA blame Nancy poosi or Hakeem Jeff for what you are about to do which is to basically mortgage our our children's future so shame on you Mike Johnson out I think I've been tough enough on the Republican there but um this is the problem and I think the inflation is kicking in and people are starting to see it now the FED I I saw they're they're like the arsonist and the firefighter okay they cause the problem and then they come in you've you've probably had people like this in your life right Unfortunately they they create the drama and then they show up as if they are going to solve this problem but they are the ones who caus the problem that is the Fed that is this is the dramatic person in your life who causes all the problems then tells you they can fix them everybody's got one for America it's the FED um they caus inflation to go up they they were actually just the facilitator Congress did that by spending the money but we can't do that without the Fed so the Fed was like our our um unindicted co-conspirator in this and I'm indicting them now so they cause inflation they say we're going to fix inflation by raising interest rates so they raise interest rates people can't afford housing now you get like a house the price of a doubles when the interest rate goes up you know by a factor of two or three which it has um and now they're claiming they're going to lower interest rates and things will you know because they got inflation under control I don't think they're really that much in control of interest rates at this point like they they if they said they were going to lower interest rates 2% they can't do it because nobody is going to B buy our debt at those rates and and they're starting to lose control control now they can bring it down half a point or a point they've got buyers of Last Resort because they do so many favors for these big Banks the big banks will step in and buy some of this when the sovereign debt you know uh the the countries who buy our debt typically who typically buy our debt don't do it because the banks have an interest in keeping the music going for the music chairs for a little bit longer but we're I think we're headed for bad news and I think people are waking up because they're seeing it in the grocery store and and and their mortgages well I mean look at what's happening to Banks I mean we went through the um Silicon Valley Bank Run and JP Morgan came in and swooped up that that book of business and then you had um all these other Regional Banks going out of business one by one and then you got JP Morgan so and it feels like JP Morgan at this point is just another arm of the federal government in many ways and and they're so enormous now because because they've had to take this all on but at some point are their books going to be able to handle the amount of of debt and potential for a bank run I mean if if JP Morgan had a bank it's game over for pretty much the American public because so much of the American public's banking now is forced to be funneled through JP Morgan yeah what I find amusing is they say the FED has to exist because you want an independent agency deciding these things and you wouldn't want Congress for instance doing their Article 1 Section 8 job of coining money and setting the value thereof like that's our job but we farmed it out for Independence the FED is not independent they are talking to JP Morgan every day every day they are talking to treasury every day like and treasury is a function of the executive branch and of the government like every second they are coordinating every move with the banks they are not independent folks like so I find that hilarious as one of the arguments and and what a signal that sends though that Regional Banks can't hold themselves up anymore based on the current credit and and and debt uh businesses it it it just it can't they they cannot sustain um so if there was for me that that's been the biggest indication that it we are definitely progressing towards what they call us going off the rails with the debt right now right um our our entire Financial infrastructure just keep it's getting it's like there it's like right there yeah let me tell you when that um the when they came swooped in and saved that bank there in Silicon Valley I thought well they'll call us back to Congress and we'll vote on something because I saw this happen before you know bank bailouts no we got a Sunday Zoom call and uh Treasury and the fed and FDIC those three people told us what they were going to do this was like on a Sunday and they didn't ask our permission like in the past and I guess it turns out that when Congress did it last time they just basically gave these organizations a blank check or whether the the the FDIC Treasury and fed has a blank check or not if they do a zoom call and they tell Congress what they're doing and Congress doesn't do something that the next Monday then they get away with it and now that is what is accepted as what's going to happen so they just pulled all of that off without an elected body doing anything I mean I can't imagine how stressful it must be to be in Congress right now and caring about the debt and trying to get ahead of this stuff and you know we're coming up on time but the last story I wanted to ask you about was um during the pandemic you drove was it you drove to DC to try to stop the passage of of the cares act yes I so um I was I think it was um it was it was Trump's cabinet okay some of the bad people right they were assembled and they did a news conference I was waiting for us to go back to DC and save the country right but they did a news conference and they said uh well we're going to do a $2 trillion package but it's more like Six Trillion because we're going to give the FED 400,000 that they can loan out at a 10 to1 ratio and I'm watching this I'm like what what is if they lost their mind and then so then I'm wait for the phone call to uh for Congress to come back and do this and instead we get an email that says just stay at your house we're going to do all this by unanimous consent and I I called um the two staffers who were most important to me that work have worked for me since the beginning of me being in Congress and I said I'm thinking about going to DC and I'm we're all going to lose our jobs but the I I said so I want to let you know before I cause you to for us all to be unemployed and I I said how do you feel about it and they said we don't want to work for you if you don't get in the car and drive to DC oh and I was like these people are amazing I've got the right people working for me this is what I was saying in the beginning Trump needs these people surrounding him people like I have so I got in the car and I and I drove to DC and there were airplanes with just two people on them two passengers they were both congressmen from California like they had shut down basically everything this was during the 15 days to slow the spread and it was so nasty that was like the toughest day was a series of days I've ever had in Congress people would come up to me and say you know my wife and I live with our parents and you're going to cause me to get covid and bring it home to them and they will die and the blood is going to be on your hands and like I was getting these lectures from Republicans and I'm thinking wait you just went to Kroger's yesterday and somebody bagged your groceries and brought them out to your car that kid probably lives with his parents and what's going to happen there like it was all about me me me and so I didn't I at some point I realized I couldn't stop it there was so much against me so what I the default I decided on was for forcing them to come to Congress and trying to force the vote and you know I caught all kinds of hell for that but um and the reason I did it is I didn't want to be sitting on the porch back here um 10 years from now 20 years from now in a dystopian future where inflation was rampant and everything and and to know that instead of getting in my car and going to DC like I had a margarita like that guilt would have killed me so that's why I got my car it's not I don't want you to think I'm brave or anything I just don't want to regret being in a position where I could have done something and not trying because a lot of times I know I'm going to lose I know people are going to kick my teeth in I know both parties are going to like stomp on me but here's the thing like I love going back to Congress now by the way I've said enough stuff on your show I'm going to get some texts from my colleagues when they see this there's some of them wondering am I in the good 30 the bad 30 or the 160 who follow like good I want them to ask yeah they need to be thinking about that I know I'm going to get text do from Mike Johnson staff you know hey can you back off that wasn't really nice we're in election cycle go after Democrats don't pick on our own party but you were right I mean here's the thing if you told this story in 20 at the beginning of 2022 you would get hell for it but it's 2024 we're going on to you know 2025 soon and we have all the evidence that shows that these lockdowns mask mandates the fact that covid didn't wasn't really lethal for your age group or the common age group within Congress and that it doesn't transmit the way we think it transmits and that the vaccine didn't stop transmission I mean now we have all of this information which we didn't back then so I I think this is a really important message because what you did you were so right in that instinct and and because of that passing we have started this cascading unforgivable inflation and debt and we can't get out of it and it and it and it did so many other harms um to the psychology of people the handouts how they were managed where that money went I mean it's just it it's UNC it's really unconscionable to to now know what we know about the pandemic and look back at that time and to see that there was just like one or two people like who decided to get themselves to Congress to speak up here's the here's the funny thing or the fun thing like once you turn out to be right they don't convene Congress and pass the resolution saying you were right right like they will never there will be no written acknowledgement there will be no recorded verbal acknowledgement that I was right right there nobody's going to go to the floor of the house and say Thomas Massie was right in a speech okay but they all have to look at me and now they have to look at my Deb clock and when they're looking at me they know they know either uh they were complicit in doing the wrong thing or they know they should have been acting with me and they did not do it and U I've talked to some of the spouses of these people and they're like I was so mad when my husband wasn't there with you like I'm not goingon to I'm not going to call out their names but one person who I I really like because he's you know uh he's done a lot to uncover the censorship in the Judiciary Committee Jim Jordan he was one of the people trying to talk me out of calling for the vote not not because he thought what I was doing was wrong but he was worried that I would get crushed like he thought I was also committing political suicide so he called me like six times in one day to try to get me not to jump in front of the freight train and um then he called me at midnight and I I always take his call he's such a good friend so it was I felt like I was getting abused a little bit because he knew I would always take his call so I take his call it's Midnight's trying to save his friend yeah he's he's trying to save me and I'm picking up the phone and I said Jim give up there's only one person on this planet can change my mind only one person and he said who's that and I said it's my wife and he said what's ronda's phone number like sure Ronda was like no thank you right yeah good luck Jim you think you can't change my mind try changing her mind well oh my God ending on that I mean like bless you bless your family everything you are I just can't tell you how much I mean I'm like on the edge of Tears thinking about Rhonda and I just want you to know one more time that we are grateful to you you are a National Treasure um your wife is a National Treasure uh and we have you your family in our hearts right now and thank you for what you do and um you know anybody listening to this it's it's the truth they shouldn't be offensive and maybe there won't be acknowledgement for what you've done um from Congress but you will have it from all of us here in the United States that understand it so thank you so much well thank you and um thanks for the tribute to my wife I would not have gotten through what I've done in the last 12 years my soul would not be intact if not for her and without being able to come back to the farm that she grew up on that we lived on and she taught me things about farming too when I was kind of an idiot starting out 20 years ago um so thanks for the tribute to her and um thanks for what you guys are doing thanks for recognizing that we need to more Farm Pharma with an F not with a pH hell yeah and I I love that part about you this is a part of the untapped um energy in this country people don't know who can I vote for that going to fix these problems like all these health problems that we have because we've sold our souls to corporations and the little Farmers can't compete so that's one thing I love about you as you've been on top of that from the beginning yeah well we're going to get there and and I think that's the best acknowledgement is to see this stuff come to to life literally yeah let's bring America back to life let's do it all right well take care Mr Massie thank you so much see you in a oh [Music]