Fantasy WR ADPs; Warren, Kirk Injuries; Zamir White’s usage | Rotoworld Football Show (FULL SHOW)

Welcome! hello everybody Welcome to the road to World football show it is Tuesday August 20th training camp and the preseason rage on never to end never to give us actual real data Dan we have to parse through who played four or five snaps with the first team offense and you know whether it has any meaning at all or maybe tank Dell just had to go to the bathroom we and we don't know we have no idea what any of it means but we're going to try to tell you what we think it means that includes Jaylen Warren missing multiple weeks quote unquote with hamstring injury what the Panic level is there Curtis Samuel battling turf toe and throwing already kind of chaotic bills receiver core into further chaos Christian Kirk who had been one of the guys where all the the preseason Bros I know man he he didn't play Four snaps it seems real bad real real bad um he's also not practicing and might be out of two receiver sets uh Denny oh man Denny added Justin fields to the show sheet oh my God that may have been producer Adam we can I'm always up for talking about the the Steelers quarterback situation which by the way and I posted this the other day on the xplatform formally known as Twitter uh I feel like Mike Tomlin is destined to treat uh this quarterback rotation like I treat my two Putters I have I have two Putters Pat I have a ping from like 1998 okay that my dad bought me and I have an odyssey Mallet putter that I bought last summer and what I do is if I struggle at all with one of them I immediately switch to the other one that's win Golf and if you right and if you make if I make one six-footer I stick with that putter for a few rounds and then I'll switch back later that's how that's how fields and uh Russell Wilson are gonna be treated this year that's how you win a golf that's how you go 10 and seven and once again easily make the AFC playoffs somehow despite being the worst team in the league and I accuse Denny of adding Fields Denny accused producer Adam uh I meant to write Caleb Williams and the Bears um we want to talk about if we're undervaluing wholesale the Bears offense den and I think we're not allowing for enough of The Upside outcomes with the Chicago Bears Ros G Broncos backfield Raiders backfield DeAndre hopkins's updated timeline tank Dell's aformentioned questionable usage the Broncos wide receivers who seem to get bigger every single week um the commanders and their number two receiver battle Malik neighbor so on and so forth there's so much stuff we have no idea if we can even get to all of it Denny what we can get to is we host a little show called Galaxy brains yeah and um you see it out in the wild all the time in the NFL are we seeing the ultimate Galaxy brain with the Atlanta Falcons and not even playing their number two quarterback rookie Michael pennick who one would assume desperately needs reps they're not even playing him in the preseason what do you think is going on here and is this the Galaxy brain to end all Galaxy brains I mean I guess it is I I um posited the other day online that you know maybe Kirk cousins an older Why are the Falcons managing rookie Michael Penix Jr.’s preseason reps? Kurt Cousins coming back from an Achilles injury is not ready wrong right and so you told me immediately you somehow know that I'm wrong everybody online knows that I'm wrong I don't I don't I don't know I guess you all just watch uh training camp Falcons training camp every day we do and I I guess I needed to start doing that but uh um that was my my immediate thought was oh cousins is done and they're embarrassed and they're not going to talk about it until you know like three days before week one and when they're going to be like yeah cousins he's not ready so Michael's going to start uh but apparently that's not it and they're just holding out for no reason if you don't have a webcam of what is going on at Falcon's practice you're not honestly grinding season training camp hard enough you're being you're being outworked I'm being outworked you're being outworked by me and everyone on X the social media platform formerly known as Twitter Denny I really do think it's just more Galaxy braining from a front office that like every like all right we got another top eight pick we're not going to examine how we keep getting top eight picks but here's what we're going to do we're going to use it on a skill player and then contrive ways not to use them and that seems to just be again doing Michael I mean maybe it was hurting cousins feelings the fact that pen penx was good in the preseason um maybe 1,00% was yeah and and and maybe you know because with these with these older sort of Lea esque quarterbacks you want to be careful about their ego right like the Jets can't have a quarterback who's better than Aaron roggers right uh the Falcons can't have Michael penx being better than cousins so penx comes out looks better than cousins and they say no no no no we're reeling that back in we're we're playing the worst guy uh right now this is this is what we signed up for so I I do think that that probably plays into it a little bit do you you think Michael pinnick is already better than Kurt Cousins or no I I was a believer in panic coming out I'm I'm completely ignoring the fact that he played 15 years in college um I I I don't think that matters anymore I I've been gonna say I've been working on a take or I I genuinely wonder I was going back there some old stuff I was talking about Sam darnold on ADP chasing yesterday and someone was like you know he was such a good Prospect he was so young and we didn't get to debate on the head like you know what is that even good anymore because a lot of the the good kind of instant franchise quarterbacks have actually been starting for multiple years at this point and that maybe projectable upside isn't what we want in quarterbacks anymore I don't know yeah I I think that it's an outdated way to view the quarterback position um I think in in an era where experience matters and the ability to read and manipulate defenses matter probably more than physical ability honestly uh in the in the modern two high safety NFL I think Michael penick's not particularly gifted as an athlete no guy guy doesn't really move much but but you know accurate uh has a howt Ser of an arm I think that he can fit I think that's why that's why I was like yeah bonck is GNA be good like I'm sorry but like I don't care where he goes he's going to be good and uh he ended up being in a really good spot with Shawn pton so I I I would say honestly from a fantasy standpoint penx there there's no drop off I don't think from penx to cousins cousins to penx it's all the same to be clear I want penx to make starts this year uh really really want penck to make starts and uh I want Kurt Cousins trade I want chaos I want Kurt Cousins trade to the Giants week five um honestly the the most hilarious Kurt Cousins outcome is getting traded to the Browns um that's what I really really want is Kurt Cousins traded to the Browns they're gonna have1 billion dollars with the quarterback contracts they will they will they will listen they said it you say it can't be done they say watch me right they say well here's some math you know do the math we're gonna crunch the numbers Denny here's some math multiple weeks is more than one week and multiple weeks is what Jaylen Warren is currently expected to miss with his hamstring injury uh he's in doubt for week one doubt is strong when I say in doubt I mean that by the spirit of the phrase where we just don't know if he's going to be ready for week one he's not doubtful he is inou doubt Jaylen Warren someone who honestly I Top Headlines: Jaylen Warren out multiple weeks, Curtis Samuel and Christian Kirk ailing, are we undervaluing Caleb Williams and the Bears? expected to get steamed all summer and just isn't at all he's hanging around the rb23 borderline is that risky what's the deal with Jaylen Warren are we worried like is this like a if Naji Harris goes nuts in week one like is it over just what is our concern level with Jaylen Warren and his hamstring IND I do want to just say that you you sounded awful and I'm not getting political but you you sounded awful clintonian there with parsing of the words the definition what is the definition of is I don't know what the definition of is is and I know he's not doubtful he's doubtful esque uh you know look uh I'm I'm taking Jaylen Warren in redraft only if he slips well well well past ADP you know if the if if the league you're drafting in is panicking over the news which I I think is is reasonable honestly I mean it's not your your average hamstring injury it's not like jir Gibbs hamstring injury seems much less serious than this Warren thing um so if he's dropping a round or even two rounds past ADP then I'm looking at him and saying ah maybe I can take him just stash him see if he gets better see if he comes back at full health uh takes on the role that I think he was going to have in the first place uh with with Naj Harris um I think if you're drafting like zero RB is type type stuff and you're looking for running back in the middle rounds I think you gota you got to think hard about Harris you never have to think hard about Harris I'll say well yeah but you but you were you were hurt last year by Naji Harris I well it was the one time I ever drafted him and it was solely because he had fallen and I had to think hard about him in the middle rounds and surely even Naji Harris is a value at this ADP and let me tell you Naji Harris is never a value at any ADP I mean it's a boring it's a boring pick and I I think you know it's it's contingent on him scoring a lot of touchdowns probably you know a good amount of touchdowns anyway um but I I do think that folks who drafted Harris in the in the past month or so I think it's gonna pay off at least in the short term a lot of thinking hard about Harris Den he um well next up oh no what I will say real quick on Jaylen Warren is uh it's the exact wrong time of Summer to suffer a hamstring injury because now you're in a raceing Against Time for week one and you're in the zone where the team might rush you and like just get him out there like I know maybe he shouldn't actually be practicing today like Wednesday of week one just to see what he's got he's been feeling good for two days ideally you want to be feeling good for like a week he felt good yesterday so we have Jaylen practice today and he makes it through practice and five minutes in the first quarter he reinjured the hamstr that that would be the worry is that he's rushed back um because they see him as a key part of this offense you know I mean this offense doesn't have much going for it right right it has pickings and it has the running backs and that's it okay like Pat friou he's like he's a rotational tight end in the preseason I don't know if that's going to carry over I wouldn't be surprised if it does it makes him completely fantasy irrelevant but I I wouldn't be surprised if they Rush Jaylen Warren back Steelers is very very low and my ranking the offense is articled and I am desperately trying to get out this week keep working on it looking very powerfully into getting that finished looking very strongly at this bills receiver core yet again Denny but time it's because of injury Curtis samul turf toe turto an Infamous week- toe injury I get the feeling he'll probably be healthy for week one or ready for week one Turf to is like the ultimate like setback reinjury injury does this change how you're approaching the bills backfield where there is no like one-size fits-all approach to the excuse me the bills receiver core like everyone's kind of taking like I'm Samuel guy I've been a Shakira guy uh you know since before this dynasty League even started like I've always been on Coleman guy going back to his freshman year in college yeah does the turf toe issue for Curtis Samuel change the already confused calculus for this bills receiver group I want to apologize real quick if folks can hear my dog Ziggy barking in the background uh he's uh losing his mind uh anyway ke yes Keon Coleman playing uh running 100% of the routes with the first team offense in the preseason seems like he's locked in uh you know so I I do think it's reasonable to take him first among these receivers but I think the value play the way I'm playing it is Shakir um shakir's just super efficient um you know I I saw a study done the other day it showed like adjusted yards per route run depending on how many receivers are on the field and long story short Shakir really popped and he pops everywhere every time I look into Shakir he pops here and there and there and and I think that he can do a lot with a little the Curtis Samuel toe thing I think is significant for Cle Shakir because it looked like at least in the first preseason game like Curtis Samuel and Shakir were going to rotate in the slot position okay that was terrible I was truly sad about that uh the bank examiner called me several times that week uh he didn't call after the Curtis Samuel in injury and and I think that's why so I I really very very telling I do think uh sh Shakir makes a lot of sense I think Shakir is like a great pick especially if you have to fill like multiple Flex spots in a half PPR or a PPR League he's a great guy to just get and just plug in and I think that he could be surprisingly productive in this bills offense yeah I think the approach all along in the bills receiver core has just kind of been like what's who's the default option here if we're trying to make predictions about an unsettled like position group like who requires the fewest dots to connect and Shakir is the guy who has already been there who played a lot last year played way more snaps than anyone realized so they don't have to work him in like there's no like maybe they'll expand his role or he'll be doing some different things this year like his Baseline not that Curtis Samuel like doesn't know what he's doing but the shakir's Baseline was already like what he did in this offense was already so high yeah there's just the fewest leaps in logic to Shakir snaps and hopefully Shakir targets it would be ni we still don't really entirely know if he's good I'll say I think he might I think he might actually be good he's a dog I know that that that's for sure he has dog levels um I will just caution folks I I I know Bills fans got really mad when I pointed this out with statistical evidence uh but Joe Brady likes to lean on the Run especially with the lead so uh I don't expect this offense to produce a ton of pass volume that could be an issue for a guy like Shakir Keon Coleman by the way ran one bad route is it over um there was him getting owned or something at the lion of I can't remember what it was is it yeah oh no Keon Coleman is fine because um he's a a jubilant guy and people like him online and he's got listen the real reason is he's got something of a breakfast narrative with Josh Allen yeah they're not eating breakfast every day but Josh Allen was pounding the table for Keon Coleman and I did I did read in a recent report that Allen looks to nobody else in the Red Zone besides Coleman and so Coleman could be a guy who just gets away with it with touchdown production and so you know a fantasy managers who take him could get away with it Keon Coleman seven touchdowns Dawson Knox six touchdowns Dalton concade three touchdowns and it's never that sounds right I will say never ever ever been more over has it been more over for Christian Kirk Denny the people are freaking out that he wasn't in two receiver sets and very limited Jags preseason action now he's banged up missing time with the calf injury Davis mtic reminded the other day on ship chasing which I went on um I don't know if you heard of you mentioned yeah I didn't actually was ADP chasing not ship chasing yeah um but this is not the first time we've had this preseason Christian Kirk freak out in fact the exact same thing happened last year but you know entirely new Supporting Cast this year though hopefully like a new offensive approach just some more coherent approach to the wide receiver usage and wide receiver targets are we concerned about Christian Kirk at least his usage or is it just more like if you're going to worry about anything with Christian Kirk worry about the injury like the targets and the slot reps are going to be there where are you at right now Christian a guy we don't like to talk about because he's kind of boring but you have to talk about him because he's always in the wide receiver three mix uh the slot stuff is is concerning because we mentioned uh on the show last week that the Jags ran uh used three receivers at the at the 10th lowest rate last year uh so if that's the only way he's getting onto the field then that's a problem for Christian Kirk uh last last year he got bailed out by some early wide receiver injuries for Jacksonville and they were forced to play him even though they truly desperately did not want to um he was good be strong I mean I mean obviously they didn't want they they the only way Z Jones went down remember Z Jones went down week one somebody else went down and they were like okay fine we'll play Christian Kirk you think they didn't want to play their $7 million receiver well then why why are they putting him in the SL why are they setting him up for Bas he's not good on the outside is why yeah a 50% route rate that's what we're looking at for Christian Kirk um when you put it that way I I yeah I mean I'm I'm I'm not drafting him anywhere near ADP I don't really know how to play this Jags I don't because you know Brian Thomas is gonna be a boom bust guy I mean there's just no way around that Gab he's booming I will say he's been booming in J he's booming and and you know he's probably going to be good uh in long run and and I would say that he's really good potentially for Trevor Lawrence because he's finally and gave Davis they they they finally have guys who if they're going to insist on keep continuing to for Trevor Lawrence to throw to the sideline downfield then those two guys can get it done um but I don't want either of them and I don't want Kirk now yeah they finally have receivers who can make Stretch Armstrong type catches on these just misplaced Trevor Lawrence balls he doesn't throw the worst ball in the NFL no but he does not throw even anywhere close to the best ball in the NFL not even close and you need big perimeter targets they also are claiming that Gabe Davis like might play all over the field like they might use him like in a variety of ways which I man it's not my money something to monitor I mean look I'm not I'm not opposed to Gabe Davis if that's if his usage is going to completely change from from how it was in Buffalo the fantasy mind could not comprehend da Davis never being good with Josh Allen and then somehow immediately getting unlocked by Trevor Lawrence there the fantasy mind would be an utter shame right myself very much included people would uh quit the game and enter the priesthood immediately they would they would U Christian Kirk he's a wide receiver 32 right now he was the classic guy I wasn't drafting him to begin with and he like you didn't need to give me another reason not to draft Christian Kirk and yet you did anyway so you you you've never been a Kirk guy I have Kirk on a lot of teams uh from you know the spring and early summer best ball stuff and I felt good about it I mean I I just I was like oh I have the Jags wide receiver one because Ridley's gone but apparently that I do not I felt better about it this year too because I thought it was just like all right they've got the two outside guys Christian Kirk can finally just dominate in the slot where he should be because Christian Kirk has always been like an identity crisis player the Cardinals could never figure out like is he a perimeter guy or is he a middle of the field guy the Jags were having the same issue I'm like finally they'll just use them the way that makes sense and I guess that they are but that they're just not going to use them that way enough in theory there and then there's Evan Ingram who runs a lot of slot routes I I don't I I don't really know where Kirk fits in it's just it's it's hard hard to see he was ba just remember though Davis was right when he said there was a panic last year around Kirk it was a welld deserved panic and it worked out because of injuries not so you're right that we never really we don't know how that would have turned out if Z Jones had not gotten injured yeah I I mean I I it didn't look it wasn't trending toward the team saying no no no we'll just get Kirk in we'll just have him run 90% of the routes that was not the way it was trending so Denny not Justin fields we were talking about Caleb Williams who showed off some really cool stuff over the weekend you know made uh an amazing throw or two which I think some people were saying it wasn't actually amazing like the throw they weren't truthing the throws they were truthing the performance like what I see is six of 13 for seven yards two cool throws but they're looking like they're having fun they're looking like there's going to be big plays you entirely different attitude entirely different feel to the Bears offense and you and I have been wondering like so we've debated a lot in recent years I think in the affirmative too is the conclusion that we've come to that temps are more way more of a quarterback stat than we would like to believe Kayla Williams was the ultimate attempts to a quarterbacks that at USC guy the they very aggressively upgrade the entire Supporting Cast not just the receiver core but in the back field at least an upgrade in their minds with DeAndre Swift and we just are we wholesale undervaluing this Bears offense Caleb Williams you know he's he's generally in the top 12 but he's not always in the top 12 like people are you seem like they're coming up more reasons not to draft Bears receivers than to draft them like Keenan Allen romad dun are barely in the top 36 uh DJ Moore you know who was like a top eight guy last year not even always he's not in the top 20 a lot of the times are we wholesale undervaluing what could be just like an epically pass heavy and productive offense I think so um I mean I think we can take advantage of the fact that Caleb Williams numbers have not actually been sparkling in the preseason and that the first team offense for Chicago is not pouring on touchdowns okay if they had scored two or three touchdowns and Caleb will Willam like five uh drives in the preseason then we would see all of these guys spike in ADP including Caleb Williams I think we should kind of be grateful that that hasn't happened um because look uh I'm not a not a film grinder uh but I see what I see and I'm not seeing many quarterbacks operate the way the kalea Williams is operating in fact there's one who operates there is the one guy there's one guy who does um and uh okay and this this argument that like yeah okay like he made an unbelievable throw but we have to remember it was against plumbers um it wasn't against the 2000 Ravens defense why why won't Caleb Williams go against the 2000 Ravens defense why won't he you know he's he's a coward he won't do it um and uh to that I say come on man just just see like watch just enjoy it watch like wow that's actually special the first overall pick is is actually good for once um you know he's just W what I mean we finally got one um yeah 10 for 20 for 170 yards uh so far in two preseason games uh ad of 9.9 which is which is pretty deep um but I think it's just the the creativity the refusal to go down the ability to make plays out of pocket like that's the stuff that makes fantasy tick right uh that's the stuff that we've always complain about like oh like Tua doesn't do any of that you know like um well it is the stuff being coached out of the game and he's just like Patrick Mahomes he's just too talented so they don't coach it out of him right and he and he does seem to have that six sense um that awareness that Mahomes has where momes knows where all 21 other players are on the field at all times and I mean there are there are quarterbacks who don't even know where they are on the at at any given time yes um so it's so I I I think you you need to you probably need to just see it instead of be like 10 for 20 50% completion rate I don't want that this this team's gonna stink no they're they're gonna be good they're gonna score points and I think look with Keenan Allen being large and old um I'm taking Roman dun over Keenan Allen at this point I've adjusted that there's just I just can't justify it anymore I can't justify taking Allen not I'm not going to pretend that Allen's suddenly going to be better uh so I'm taking ad Dunes probably ahead of ADP I'm taking DJ Moore at ADP uh and Caleb Williams looks like along with Jaden Daniels the key to late round quarterback this year I've flipped ad dun Zayn Keenan Allen as well because why would you not at this point like the guy who's had so many lower body injuries like I don't now he's running around with 20 pounds more weight like he might lose some of that just like I don't maybe Keenan Allen hamstrings did not need any more like on top of them and Roman dun top 10 pick like I I worry about the JS the jsnation of romad dun and they're like okay he's an amazing rookie receiver but he's in an offense with two of the most established vets in the entire league like where are the targets going to come from and I just Comfort myself with the fact there's a big difference between being the number nine overall pick and the number 22 overall pick yeah Keenan is is he even going to be out there in yeah two receiver sets and like what and like was this Keenan a guy who's 32 I believe was that heel injury he suffered at the end of last year that's finally the one who put him over the top and like like the injury that he just doesn't quite come not that it was like some huge debilitating injury but Keenan Al is a guy really couldn't lose much more explosiveness yes and he suffered yet another injury and he's not in an offense yeah it's all about him Keenan Allen like epic numbers like he should have never had those numbers like the Chargers offensive approach was so bad for so many years just like the ultimate empty piling empty calorie stats I think that's that's right I've always thought the Keenan Allen's production with the Chargers was an indictment on the Chargers it was um you had to have you had to make the plane out of something more than five yard Keenan Allen out routes where he does nothing with them I mean come on like that like it's just it's just empty stuff that's a bit mean is it too much that's too much it was too much so it's a good time to take a break we'll be right back after this this Thursday we are hosting our ual roto world draft Marathon including the unveiling of Matthew Barry's Ride or Die Fantasy Football happy hour player that's right 10 hours of non-stop draft prep beginning at 11:00 amm Eastern on Thursday August 22nd check out nbcsports.com draft Marathon for the full schedule Denny and I will be doing a Q&A as part of that Marathon Denny and I will be doing many many many mock drafts as part of that some are arguing a world historic amount of mock draft we're doing a road roll football show with Kyle Doric and special guest Andy Barons Denny is doing a live Q&A as the lead in to our our big PPR star studded mck draft at 800 PM Eastern so it's just an entire day of really really amazing stuff and we we've got a lot of great content coming at you with a lot of great people a lot of help from our friends thank you very much to everyone who's going to be appearing I I will I will say Pat you know I don't think I told you this off air but uh August 22nd happens to be my wedding anniversary so I'm uh I'm down pretty bad in that regard you know August 16th was my birthday and you didn't wish me a happy birthday until later in the day you did wish me happy you actually very easily wished me happy birthday I wish you Happy Birthday at like 4 pm yeah you very very easily wished me had sorry sorry it wasn't at 400 a I should have woken up I took it personally yeah I didn't know it was your anniversary yeah need someone else to do that Q&A um well no it's uh it's fine actually my wife's going to join me for the Q&A she's goingon to join you she's going to serve you during the Q&A no no Jes definitely not doing that no I meant serve you with divorce papers you meant like dinner no yeah no no no no I meant the divorce papers oh that makes more sense way way more sense and I didn't mean to embarrass you in front of all your friends except I did come on this guy got way too dark you know it's very dark is Garder muu easily winning a quarterback competition in the year 2024 kind of knew this was going to happen like a Aiden oconnell like a little Plucky upstart nice narrative but yeah whatever come on wasn't gonna happen no wasn't please I'm stealing your but please come on like just it just never made any sense to me it didn't make any sense it still does not make sense Gard muu is More News + Notes: Raiders tab Gardner Minshew, Jaleel McLaughlin vs Javonte Williams, Zamir White’s preseason usage the starter do we care does it change anything was this already priced in what about this Raiders offensive Garden menu I think it it actually does matter quite a bit I think Aiden oconnell is borderline apocalyptic for this Vegas offense curious they scored 63 points of them at quarterback last year and you know I forgot about that and you're right one of the greatest quarterback performances of all time where he handed it off for three quarters he had like 20 yards yeah uh Gardner mchu 35 drop backs to 30 drop backs for Aiden noono the first two preseason games for the Raiders there's just Stark differences everywhere uh menu's a DOT was near 10 aen o'connells was six and a half so we're talking about just checkdown after check down for okono muu actually was aggressive uh muu had a much higher rate of downfield throws uh six and a half yards per attempt to 5.9 for oconnell so you know look I muu is not great but I think he's significantly better than okono and I I I think that menu's ability and willingness to go down field is good for a lot most of the receivers here most specifically Trey Tucker I think Trey Tucker is absolutely dead in the water for Fantasy purposes with oconnell I think with mshu he's interesting well mshu all it really does is give us some sort of certainty about an offense where it was going to be nothing but uncertainty with Aiden oconnell or guard himman Sho we saw with the Jags we very much saw with the Colts he understands as a backup quarterback what not to do what not to do which he does his bad games he does commit a lot of turnovers in general he takes care of the ball and what to do pepper are your best players of targets he did it all year with Michael Pitman last year he's gonna do it all year with Devonte Adams in Vegas I just think we can at least spec Devon or gardman shoot a lock on to Devonte Adams with Aiden mconnell been like I don't know what this guy is all about I don't even know what he's gonna do like he might just implode Garder muu will implode from time to time yeah but he's going to get the ball to Devonte Adams so it's just good to have at least certainty there Devonte Adams will be getting the ball and and and M is aggressive like I said and that that makes a big difference he he can also create you know but on his own to an extent um whereas Aiden oconnell man he's a Bret style uh Creator as in no creation just you drop back and you throw it to your first read and if your first seed's not open you throw it out of bounds well you drop back and just kind of wait for something to happen which has been getting jaob Jacobi Bret very patient fella very actually that's called the full garoo when you drop no Garo though scared of getting hit pret's like listen man I'm waiting for someone to get open oh yeah and like if they don't get open guess what I'm doing next I'm getting hit you're right actually then when I'm getting hit guess what happens after that I'm getting hurt yeah I'm getting whacked this linebacker coming no yeah you're right garoppolo's I forgot what it was like to watch Jimmy G Garoppo's main goal in dropping back was just not to get hit didn't matter the first guy's covered yeah he's like all right whatever I'm living to fight another day yeah jaob Bret's like I'm a very large man I'm sure I can absorb yet another and I'm hurt that's what Anthony Richardson thought too I know these guys I feel like they overestimate the hits they can take sometimes please do not do that chob um please do not draft Broncos ancillary running backs Denny question mark because it looks like maybe the most likely outcome all along is gonna be the outcome we get Javonte Williams Julia mlin they were the only backs to see snaps the first team offense s myp Ryan has seen time of the first team offense this year though audre Gest was added to the mix Blake Watson people tried to be brave and give a little hype early in the off season but is this this going to be basically the exact same Broncos backfield we saw saw last year or with Jamon Williams is the core guy samaji Pine is the primary third down back and then J Julian mlin kind of just Chang as the pace as needed are we basically not seeing any deviation from that usage what do you think's going on with the Broncos backfield yeah um it looks like you know mcclaflin is running more routes than gavon Williams Williams did catch a pass on a design screen from Bo Knicks this past week against the Packers I thought that that is for 15 yards I thought that that was a positive development it it possibly suggest it suggested that Chante is not just going to be an early down Banger that he will be involved in the pass passing game because this is a Shawn Payton offense that really loves to to design screens and dump it off to Playmakers uh I will say javante looks more explosive I I have all sorts of film takes now P i' I've been watching so much film it's G me your downfall actually watching football is him me your down I know yeah I'm gonna blame you for some reason uh yeah I mean javante Williams uh seven carries for 32 yards in the preseason that's a 4.7 yards per carry his yards per contact is is actually really good uh just to give you some context 24 of his 32 rushing yards this preseason have come after first Contact so that that was not happening last year that's that's the sort of thing that really he was he was struggling in those Advanced metrics uh so I I I like Javon I've said this multiple times on the show I like gavon where he's going I think that he's an important part of a zero RB build however you do that uh mlin is going later he also works but I only think he works in PPR I really I really just don't have much interest beyond that PPR scammy type role that he's gonna have there there could still be some uncertainty in this back like samaji per could get cut a very very very outside chance dvon Williams gets traded but for a lot of reasons you just laid out that that doesn't seem like that was like offseason rumor that was not fueled by the Broncos it just seems like it's not gonna happen Javonte Williams just seems like he's gonna be a Denver Broncos yeah well it was fueled because they took audri ese in the draft and it said well why would they do that maybe they're trying to get rid of javante the Shawn pyton has had a lot of great things to say about javante um I'm not too you look I mean the fact that Julio mclin's still involved like that's not a shock what he was going to sit on the bench like that guy's a dog and pton loves him he's going to be involved audri estimates a dog too though I I still wonder if we're at the end of the story here but you basically yeah you just lay we're getting what we what made the most sense all along which a lot of Sound and Fury signifying nothing didn't yes that's right uh I will say mcclaflin doesn't profile as a guy and it sounds this sounds funny almost but he doesn't profile as a guy who's going to benefit if jamonte Williams misses time I think I don't think that he automatically gets more run I think that he has the role that he has in estim or whoever else Blake Watson I don't even know who else comes in and does and does the dirty work on first and second down what you're saying is Jalia mlin is a cop change of pace back didn't he he's just a cop he's he's a cop and he's gonna see moth targets these are facts these are facts it's also facts that it's totally over for zamir white apparently because he played in the second half of a preseason game it is not good I think there are some extenuating circumstances but talk about a player who did not need to give people another reason to doubt him and like his his 2024 potential output what's the story with zamir white how uh strong is the concern I mean this should not Shock anybody like he was never going to be a three down back he was never going to have much involvement in the past game unless they just had like a string of backfield injuries in Vegas uh so this is what you get like he's going to be a touchdown dependent game script sensitive early down running back like we know this prototype we have seen it many many times that's what you're getting when you draft some year weight there is no other Avenue for him in fantasy uh are the Raiders going to be good enough to you know support that sort of you know early down Banger I don't know I don't think so maybe maybe maybe if the defense is good enough the defense could be good but here's the thing Pat what if the Raiders offense is so dysfunctional and and it could be okay they could rotate quarterbacks minshu's not really that good what if it's so dysfunctional on the offensive side that it puts the defense into these horrible situations we've seen this we've seen good defenses being put into untenable situations where they just have to give up points like it's just the way it goes like you get like muu throws a pick uh and at on his own three yard line well the defense is not stopping that you know so anyway I I I worry about why I'm not targeting him really at all even if he drops in in ADP yeah I think he he had one of two outcomes to me either freebie rb2 or like instant this year's Alexander Madison which is you know of course a bit interesting since Alexander Madison is his backup but like Alexander Madison last year was the guy we were never totally sold on him as an rb2 but the role was there on paper he was going to like the seventh eighth round right on that borderline and then yeah it just he wasn't good and the offense wasn't good enough uh somehow even though they had Kurt Cousins for half the season um and it just didn't happen and it's it feels like it's trending towards not happening for zamir white and he played in the second half of a preseason game that wasn't good that was that could be even worse than we think where it could be like Dylan lby is involved season yeah look I I I just want to be clear like I I think that uh folks can do better with that that pick right so Samir White's going 68th overall as rb23 I mean it's not like you have to like break the bank to get somee white but in that range you have Naji Harris better pick you have uh you know Kyler Murray and Jordan love who you know I think are just better overall ways to build build your roster uh uh Evan Ingram I know you hate Chris Godwin but Chris Godwin um you know I just there's just in that range I just don't I'm not even seeing zir no no and again it could be our loss because we if we miss out on a free brb2 it's a veryable value very valuable thing in fantasy but yes could agre more like I'm on the clock I yeah just sees me next it's like scanning I'm scrolling and next next next of course do this for 40 players because I don't think anyone's good I think if you're if you're trying to finish you know like fourth in your fantasy league you're hammering the Mir White oh man that's that's pretty mean that's is that mean zamir listen I still we're still boys I'm just I'm just saying DeAndre Hopkins with his knee injury is now apparently expected back for week one basically do we still care about DeAndre Hopkins yeah oh yeah he's got to be rostered but how much does his presence really change this I guess it changes a lot he's still okay tell me tell me why I be care he's gonna be scammy and in a possibly you know pass heavy Tennessee offense I very uh extreme emphasis on possibly pass heavy offense this that defense is gonna stink by the way I mean from the evaluations that I've read they are going to be quite bad so Mike brael was WR Roundup: DeAndre Hopkins injury update, projecting Tank Dell and Jahan Dotson, Malik Nabers’ ADP the only thing holding that defense together to begin with and not and barely yes true barely so I I I think they're going to be forced I I don't I you know even if it's not the plan I think it might actually be the plan to be passed first but even if it's not the plan I think they will be forced into those scripts and that man that could be so so good for DeAndre Hopkins as as short area receiver um am I excited to like roll him out in week one after this knee thing not really I kind of have to see it probably but I think look if if you if you draft like three or four really good receivers to start your draft you can get Hopkins depending on your league um I know I know everyone listening to this thing not in my league but uh you could get him as like your wide receiver five and just see how it goes I think that's a luxury that's a nice luxury you mean he's barely been going as a wide receiver four more frequently been going as a wide receiver five uh having trouble cracking the top 100 so you're not exag he's like just inside the top 100 but there are drafts where he's falling outside the top 100 right I will say like it wouldn't be my first choice with Will Evis but every s has suggested pass heavy offense from the coach comments to the Personnel Acquisitions like this just looks like a spread offense with TJ Spears Tony Pard the major investment in wide receiver even including Tyler Boyd it just looks like a spread like modern attack to me and it's kind of hard to believe that it's gonna be under 30 like 32 pass attempts a game I I again I don't know why really you do that necessarily with Will Lis but it certainly seems like they're doing that we'll take it I mean for Fantasy I'm in you know and it's it's ugly uh but my fantasy points don't care about ugly they do not care we'll take it I also I don't mind Calvin Ridley honestly where he's going just because of of that volume and I think the Titans unlike the Jags actually kind of know what to do with Ridley uh which is uh which will be good for I think his fantasy prospects I am extremely concerned about Doug Peterson he he doesn't seem like he knows really what he's doing anymore he seemed like someone who had one good idea he was a head of the Curve in 2017 2018 yeah like everyone else caught up and he's just like I'm still doing my Doug thing he seems to have lost his fast ball he's bichan in that way come on man I I absolutely hate to lose my fast ball after you know 417 career victories and 5200 strikeouts and you know 110 career shutouts really hate to lose my fastball I mean it happens to us all it does happen but don't compare Doug Peterson to I'm not saying they're the same I'm just saying that it kind of feels that way with like Peterson having no new ideas the way the had no new ideas for those final four years belich he he had a white board that said new ideas colon and then nothing written under it there's nothing at all written under it I just said tight end question mark wait new do not sign another tight end I did sign two tight ends for a combined $600 million and don't use them at ever use them bill please any we met any new idea other than that right right they he really did truly wanted to repeat that that Glory year of uh Hernandez and grank and it didn't work did never ever happened uh speaking one of the most lightning rod players the entire summer Denny tank Dell he's been adding more fuel to the fire as the odd man out of Texans three receiver sets but we kind of expected that all along Texans I think the the buzz is they're not using as many three receiver sets as we were kind of hoping PFF Bobby fraud alert raging yet again um I I still though I have a hard time like reading too much like I don't think the Texans is like unveiling the full scale of preseason um yeah so only ran six of 11 routes the Texans starters as you point out niik Collins were at 10 and nine respectively uh what is the concern level tank Dell who's being drafted as a wide receiver too A lot of people need tank Dell to be very very good it sounds like my co-host needs tank to be very no no I'm unfort I had him on every team last year I've literally putting him on like bust lists this year I'm out but could I I'm kind of scared I'm wrong for being out though I know I I don't I'm not scared of being wrong on him because the usage is pretty clear um look you do have to factor the digs personality situ situation into this like Stephan Diggs ain't going to ride the bench like that's not happening like he's literally going to leave the team if that happens so uh he's going to be on the field for as long as you know as long as he can handle it and I think that may that means that tank Dell is going to be a 60 65% route guy he's still a big play threat he's still G to be a beneficiary of probably a big season for CJ strad so yeah some weeks it's going to look good and some weeks it's gonna oh yeah of course of course I'm playing tank Dell I don't care that he ran 60% of the routes he caught three balls one for a long touchdown um but I think there will be dry spells I think that when the Texans have game script on their side and they're running the ball a lot you know that's not that's not going to be great for a guy like Dell like Diggs and Collins will still be able to get there but it it'll be Dell who just is not on the field enough often so I worry about that saying that saying that you are one Nico Collins or Diggs injury away from tank Dell being an instant top 12 receiver you and he's just he's a wide receiver to who should be going as a wide receiver three because he should be starting in every fantasy league um his profil is just that of a boom bust wide receiver three where if you're in the top 24 there are occasionally boom bust guys there but like he's got like a zero point floor and he he's just more he's like a textbook wide receiver three to me what do you want out of your wide receiver three there's two archetypes you either want like Bank PPR points like there's no upside but you know there's a PPR floor or you want the matchup flipping upside where yeah you might have one catch for 12 yards there other weeks where there three catches for 74 yards and two touchdowns and that's what tank Dell is to me still that's what he was last year and it's it's more of a wide receiver three profile to me and he's going as a wide receiver two and I mean it makes sense and and I don't think his ADP is is Crazy by any means um yeah I'm just I'm just going to look real quick because you know what we can we can actually talk facts and figures here he's going uh wide receiver 29 so like Keenan Allen Terry mclen range I I mean I'm taking I'm probably taking Dell over both those guys yeah maybe not Terry depending on like my draft build if I again or if I just want to bank some points maybe I'll take Terry but if I need upside I'll take tankel yeah I mean and the next closest receiver is actually almost a full round ahead of Dell at with t Higgins so so even though T Higgins is the wide receiver 28 and Del is the 29 there is actually a big gap there um obviously I would take Higgins over over Dell but um yeah I I don't think Dell's ADP is unreasonable not unreasonable it would be unreasonable to not take a really quick break we'll be right back after this the root World Fantasy Football Draft guide is now available exclusively through a partnership with Matthew Barry's Fantasy Life get a Fantasy Life Plus subscription and receive the roor world draft guide plus fantasy DFS and bet tools to help you dominate all season long use promo code Roto 10 for 10% off go to Fantasy life.com rotor to learn more Denny we uh talking about receivers and uncertain situations the commanders are just like openly admitting like listen listen guys we don't have a number two receiver uh we do not can you anyone have any ideas you have a number two receiver you can maybe trade us not really sure it should be diami brown uh Jan doson is running in the slot which as you say could be an interesting way to revive his career but has the usage not been what it would need to be for Johan doson if he was in the slot yeah he uh 80% slot rate this past week against the Dolphins uh be the week before that 50% slot rate so you know they're trying like they're trying to make dot dots in a thing um he has three catches uh for 16 yards in the preseason I'm sorry and that shouldn't be laughing um but yeah I mean Dan Quinn is like you know you know we're in the market for a wide receiver too and if you guys know anything let me let me know the G if you're listening yeah uh so okay the thing is I was never interested in wa in in doson I'm not interested in anybody in this offense except for Terry McClaren sort of and of course Jaden Daniels and Robinson and that's it um I just don't think anybody else is going to see any sort of projectable volume like the wide receiver 2 for a hyper mobile quarterback who's going to be taking away dropbacks with his own rushing it the wide receiver 2 R is just is just so minuscule you know uh so do doson should not be drafted unless you're unless you're uh league is really deep it's sad but it's just we've seen it for years with the Ravens we kind of saw even Gabe Davis couldn't get enough and buffalo yeah it's not a profitable spot especially for a rookie like he's not going to be Reinventing the wheel like Jaden is throwing to Terry mclen or the HB or he's running um a lot yeah if he needs like the scam check down it's going to the HB B in it or whatever somehow a second round pick love do a second round pick on an HB but um a it was a curious choice I digress curious Choice then he to let Malik Neighbors fall to more like the wide receiver 20 range when it seemed like maybe early in the offseason he'd be like the wide receiver 12 range uh so the ADP is high what we will argue is it too low because you point you've pointed out a 33% Target share while playing essentially every snap this preseason a deep a DOT um like kind of like the Bears are we just not thinking big enough with the special young rookie in Malik neighbors we're not not even close uh wide receiver 24 right now in PPR format I I mean look I'm I'm I'm actually thrilled about this Pat because it means that you I think you can get a major value look man it would be disastrous I think if neighbors finished as wide receiver 24 this year it's not I mean I I I truly I see a path easily to top 10 for Neighbors he's going to have a 30ish per Target share do you know how hard it is you are too big to fail when you have that sort of Target share I don't care well the quality of targets and that you can't have it all you can't have a 30% Target share from Patrick Mahomes you you get it from Daniel Jones and and you live with it and and and neighbors has the kind of athletic profile where he can bust big plays off of short catches and that's what the modern NFL is all about I think he fits the modern NFL perfectly I think he's going way too late he's going after guys I'm trying to find here he's going after guys like like I would take him over DJ Moore um I would take him over Diggs who's going way before him I take him over Diggs for sure I'm not sure about DJ morm uh yeah it's kind of I would take him over Cooper Cup who's going uh 14 picks ahead of him I would too um I go I Brandon iuk I take him over auk I don't even know what team auk's on anymore I mean he's not yeah does he play I don't you know so does he still play football yes you know I so I I I think you know folks are saying well he's he's on the Giants and the Giants are bad I mean yeah well there's something to that Denny because all the shares in the world don't matter if the quarterback and Daniel Jones in his good season might I remind you through 15 touchdowns in 16 games yeah like that was the good that was the season that got Daniel Jones paid God that's actually crazy wow it is totally crazy and I fall way more on your side of the argument but I can't totally discount they like yeah wow 32% Target share that's amazing and it's 32% of 19 attempts per game oh you think they'll be super Pass Run heavy they're going to be run heavy they're going to be conservative they're running out the clock on Daniel Jones's contract I do think that I mean he's the one guy that we know is commanding targets but I just do Wonder like how much the target share can even amount to I'm again I'm on your side because he's the kind of player to get him the ball and like things are gonna happen but I I I I will say I think I think we get caught up with Target share too much when we're talking about super r R heavy offenses like you know the whole talking point last year with Kyle pittz is like he had a 35% Target share and it's like who cares man you what you mean by that is six targets that's what you mean by 35% Target share so if that's the case then my neighbors prognostication is going to be off the charts bad um I I I kind of think 30% would be honestly P I mean I I think he has a chance to lead the league in targets no there's no way there actually is no way someone in this offense could not lead the league in targets it this won't be possible with Daniel Jones like Daniel Jones like he could play a hundred NFL seasons like like Daniel Jones you're allowed to stay 26 forever you get to play 100 NFL seasons at no point ever would he have a receiver capable of leading the league charges just because of the nature of his game did you run did you run that simulation I did I did and it just could not happen it is not possible 100 100 Daniel Jones and they're all bad they're all bad every single one of them even the good ones are bad that is what you have to remember Dan even his good season was quite bad was really bad yes it was again 15 touchdowns to 16 interceptions no no no sorry at 15 touchdowns in 16 games in 16 games sorry that very like that's like you know like Sid Luckett or whatever like NE Neil Jorgenson um like leading the league with stuff like that yeah mean yeah Sunny yeah right right so yeah sunny jurgenson in a pre-war season leading the league with 15 touchdowns yeah yes Jim Thorp uh led the entire decade of the 1920s with nine total touchdown passes Daniel Jones would have been amazing in the 1920s we're just about out of time do you want to talk about brayan Allen or do you want to talk about Pat fmuth or do you want to talk about Tamm Hill please do not I'm gonna hit two of them brayan Allen still I think locked in as RB he's going to be a League winner if ree Hall goes down we're not hoping for it but if it happens Allen's in good position and then Tamm Hill has crazy crazy usage we're talking backf who he always say crazy us who cares backfield slot he's getting he's getting goal line carries Quick Hitters: Braelon Allen pegged as Jets RB2, Taysom Hill’s snap count he's lining up one Co game and get hurt because he's our age Happ you're gonna be coping so hard with Jon this year I mean one 13 touches and then no offense like this is a bit Bleak on Thursday like oh tasm Hills in the concussion protocol I don't know when it happened but it Happ saying okay okay when he was handling 13 a career high 13 touches on Sunday he got injured yeah okay I mean I guess that could happen but I mean you're you're coping and crying is gonna be really epic on well it's gonna be any different this time I really don't okay all I'll say is on TM if he's tight eligible in your league don't whine don't whine about it don't whine you draft him you draft him late and he's going to be I'm telling you right I'm telling you right now he's going to be a tight end one for two weeks total no for the season for two total week like it'll be like high-profile weeks of like a game in like the 4:30 Eastern window on Fox like right before Thanksgiving like a Monday night football game and yeah but then oh yeah he injured his calf he's got a broken pinky I just want to reiterate the first thing Clint kubak did when he got this job as offensive orator New Orleans is set up a meeting with tames Hill that's a fact okay that's a they met multiple times okay I don't care age whatever he's not fast it does it just doesn't matter to me I like fantasy points if you're going late round tight end if you're fading all the great tight ends and that's fine whatever ton Hill's your guy that's it will we ever be rid of this guy no never ever will uh we are unfortunately rid of this show we had stuff we wanted to get to we just ran out of time way too much going on right now including our rot World Draft Day Marathon check that out on Thursday August 22nd all day long Denny and I doing a Q&A at noon Eastern Denny doing another Q&A at I believe 7:30 Eastern Denny 7:30 yep Ro World football show live at 2m Eastern with special guest Andy Baron mock draft sprinkled throughout the day so just gonna be a hell of a day at Rota world uh so for Denny I'm Pat thank you so much for listening we'll be back all day today Thursday [Music]