Keir Starmer Warns Of Painful Autumn Budget In Rose Garden Speech | #NovaraLIVE

Intro hello welcome back good evening it's Navara live I'm Aon bani I hope you had a wonderful bank holiday weekend the nights are drawing in but fear not because Navara is still with you every night here on YouTube at 6 PM later I'll be joined by Dr Mike bcole we have so much to talk about tonight a story about the CEO of telegram the labor leadership may be about to change the party election rules again and the par Olympian has been forced to crawl off a British train but first Karma's address to the nation Karma has given his first major speech since becoming a prime minister this morning he spoke from the Keir Starmer Speech dowy street rose garden and that was a clever location given he focused on the rots of the Tes had left at the heart of Government after all the last time the British public saw it was when Dominic Cummings was being grilled there over his lockdown breaking Journeys in 2020 addressing an audience of journalists as well as 15 ordinary members of the public starma began by saying that wealth creation was his government's number one priority then he turned to how difficult that was going to be things are worse than we ever imagined in the first few weeks we discovered a 22 billion pound black hole in the public finances and before anyone says oh this is just performative or playing politics let's remember the OB did not know about it they wrote a letter setting that out and they didn't know because the last government hid it and even last Wednesday just last Wednesday we found out that thanks to the last government's recklessness we borrowed almost 5 billion pound more than the OB expected in the last three months alone that's not performative that's fact now just on that 22 billion pound black hole Kama is right that the obr didn't spot it but that doesn't mean others missed it too far from it because early this month The Institute for fiscal studies boss Paul Johnson wrote that the 22 billion pound black hole was obvious to anyone who dared to look and when the labor Manifesto was published in June plenty of journalists and economists did dare to look writing widely about the hole in the country's finances that both the Tories as well as the labor Manifesto left in place so yes K it is performative to be acting quite so surprised now but the public purse wasn't the only thing St accused the Tories of mismanaging they'd also enabled social rot this is starm on the race riots of a couple of weeks ago these riots didn't happen in a vacuum they exposed the state of our country revealed a deeply unhealthy Society the cracks in our foundations laid bare weakened by a decade of division and decline infected by a of populism which fed off cycles of failure of the last government every time they faced a difficult problem they failed to be honest they offered the snake oil of populism which led to more failure round and round and round stuck in the Rut of the politics of performance now before we go any further I got quite irritated hearing that and I'll tell you why because the most destructive government this country has had since 2010 indeed in my lifetime I think was the government between 2010 and 2015 the Coalition which involved David Cameron George Osborne and Nick CLE nobody would regard those people as populists and yet for my money anyway they were far worse than anything Boris Johnson did or even dare I say Liz truss so this idea that populism is to blame for all the ills well that's something I utterly reject because the last time time we had a politician using precisely this kind of rhetoric it was meses Campbell uh CLE rather Cameron and the libdem Tor Coalition this is awfully reminiscent of that which is what gives me the greatest concern don't talk about populism when so much damage was inflicted by these Clover people talking about the deficits and austerity and the need to make Cuts they were actually far worse this country in any case a lot of what starma says there is true the torist have after all spent the last 14 years and especially the last five pitting people against each other using migrants As scapegoats for their own failures and amplifying hatred towards various marginalized groups and while the race rots can be traced to Tory failure it wasn't clear what that had to do with the economic content of starmer's speech which was this I will be honest with you there is a budget coming in October and it's going to be painful we have no other choice given the situation that we're in those with the broadest shoulders should bear the heavier burden and that's why we're cracking down on Noms those who made the mess should have to do their bit to clean it up and that's why we're strengthening the powers of the water regulator and backing tough fines on the water companies that let sewage flood our rivers lakes and sees but just as when I responded to the riots I'll have to turn to the country and make big asks of you as well to accept short-term pain for long-term good the difficult tradeoff for the genuine solution and I know that after all that you have been through that is a really big ask and really difficult to hear that is not the position we should be in it's not the position I want to be in but we have to end the politics of the easy answer that solves nothing again that is so extraordinarily reminiscent of the 2010 austerity Coalition we've got no easy answers we've just got Pain by the way it's not pain for the people that are funding me it's not pain for Trevor chin and advisor to the world's fourth largest private Equity company who gave me loads of money who gave labor together loads of money it's not pain for the various hedge fund managers giving money to labor and to labor together they're fine when I say pay I mean you average middle income earner maybe a pensioner maybe a student I mean you the little people also quickly on those two policies he mentioned Noms the ndom tax was introduced by the Tories now if you're being sympathetic to K starm you might say well they did that because they knew that labor we're going to do it okay fine but it was introduced by the Tories and then on the water regulator coming after the water bosses and the water companies they're being fined they've been fined it's happening what are you going to do that's new again not really much detail uh that seems a pretty obvious Hint by the way what starma said there that tax Rises are looming on the horizon Skies Beth Rigby asked the prime minister to elaborate can you please level with people are you going to raise taxes and are you looking when you talk about the broader shoulders are you looking at taxes on working people are you now looking at a range of wealth taxes on shareholders homeowners big business thank you but as I said in the campaign in relation to working people income tax V National Insurance uh we will not increase tax I was clear before the election I'll be clear again um after the uh election obviously um the budget is in a number of weeks and the detail will be set out there but I say again what I said before the election which is um we have to get away from this idea that the only levers that can be pulled are more taxes um or more spending our number one mission is to grow the economy to make sure that we are creating the money in the first place that remains the number one Mission nothing knocks that mission um and that's why it's really important we have a transport system that works that's why it's really important we have an NHS capable of getting through the backlog that's why it's important we have the national wealth fund um Great British energy that we unlock planning so we can get on all of those decisions are decisions we've taken in the first seven weeks to make sure we get the economy where we need it but we're going to have to take tough decisions I did not cater for a 22 billion pound black hole and that's because it wasn't on the ob's books we were looking at the available as as you were the available material but it wasn't there the OB didn't know about it that's why they're conducting a review is to find out why they didn't know about it um but 22 billion pound black hole on top of what we knew to be the situation is a problem that I'm not just going to pretend isn't there or that we can easily fix we're going to have to fix it we're going to have to fix it quickly because I genuinely do not think that the politics where we simply pretend things can be done that can't be done is working um and we will do it straight away that's why I call about s getting the rot out now because if we don't do it if paper over it we know what's going to happen it's like The Damp or what anybody who's ever decorated a house knows how this works pretend it isn't there paper over it and guess what in a year's time it's 10 times worse we're not going to do it that way papering over damp uh that that is something by the way that landlords tend to do isn't it I've experienced it many times myself maybe K starma could talk to his colleague Jazz atwall who's an MP with 18 properties I wonder if he does it uh st's a problem is that people don't trust him or the chancellor that's Rachel Reeves and that's because his announcement today comes in the context of ree's announcement last month that she would try to plug some of the economic Black Hole by ending the winter fuel allowance for all but the poorest pensioners itv's nushka aana put that connection to the Prime Minister you talk about choices and there are plenty of things you've chosen to spend money on you've chosen to give bumper pay Rises to doctors higher than for nurses and teachers and you've chosen to take these benefits off pensioners AG say 2 million will be pushed into hardship as a result so what do you say to those pensioners who are not well off who feel that you are choosing to balance the books on their backs well um so far as um the winter fuel allowance is concerned firstly I would say it's not a particularly well-designed scheme frankly um and I think everybody would concede that I do think it's important that we make sure that the support is there for those pensioners who need it most which is why we're pushing for the pensioner credit pension credit to be taken up um and looking at other allowances um but um equally um simply allowing National strikes to go on and on and on and not resolving them was costing the country a fortune you can't build the economy you can't grow the economy if you haven't got a basic transport system that's working can't grow the economy if people can't get back to work because they can't get the operations that they need and we've got to get the economy going now starma likes to talk about tough choices but it doesn't seem to like to be reminded who they're being tough on reacting to starmus speech coordinator of the end fuel poverty Coalition Simon Francis said this the winter fuel payment acts is not about rot in the system it is about basic fairness for older people facing soaring energy bills in real terms the changes this winter mean that some older people will face the highest energy bills on record of course that's in relation to the cap going up by 10% uh this has the potential to create a public health emergency which will actually create more pressure on the Under Pressure NHS which the Prime Minister says he wants to fix if the Prime Minister needs to find some quote broad shoulders to pay for this support let's not forget that every month we hear about more massive profits for firms in The Wider energy industry well said some of the unions were not best pleased with starmer's speech either this was from Sharon Graham boss at unite a bleak vision of Britain is not what we need now it is time to see the change that UK labor promised Britain is in crisis but to say there is no money to rebuild our industry and infrastructure or to restore our Public Services is simply not true the top 50 families have more wealth than half our population the money is there it's time for a wealth tax on the super rich and a tax on excess profits she goes on to say we don't need more excuses about fiscal responsibility or talk of wealth creation we should not pit pensioners against workers that is not a choice that should be on the table we now need labor to have the courage to make the right choices to be labor and fightful change for workers and and our communities putting workers and pensioners against each other I thought this was the labor party the green party's co-lead at carot denya wasn't buying it either and she said this enduring more economic pain and hardship isn't what people voted for they were told they were voting for change not voting for things to get worse before they get better labor needs to be honest about the fact they could choose to make things better for everyone if they were Bolder and braver what is Being Framed as tough choices is actually about political choices people don't need a constant reminder that the Tories broke Britain they need a new approach not misguided fiscal rules that are set to make things worse for some starm Fanatics though and yes they still do exist just about only a traitor would dare question the prime minister's approach that was a boring speech by a boring man dealing with the boring business of getting Britain back on its feet and if you don't like that you don't like Britain if you don't want him to succeed you don't want Britain to succeed I'm joined by Mike bcole Mike quickly what did you think of James O'Brien there I'll come back to you about the speech more broadly what did you think about James O'Brien there saying that look if you don't agree with kiss starma saying you've got more pain headed your way than you don't like Britain seems a lot of us hate Britain and I think it's genuinely obscene for a political commentator to say if we don't like the speech delivered by a prime minister we hate Britain it's genuinely an obscene take and I think so much of the takes from a lot of kind of Centrist dads I called them is to condescend anyone who says a bad word about K Dharma it's like they afraid of us holding the prime minister to account it's it's an obscene way to conduct politics in my view it just sums up how deluded some of these people are and what did you make of the um the speech more generally I mean some things of course starma said I I agreed with them uh but I've just obviously recited many things which I disagree with what did you think about the general tone and do you think there's a big political risk here to basically come in end of August end of the summer and say you know what I've got very little to offer you guys but blood pain sweat tears toil I think the tone of a speech was problematic for starm because starma was elected on the idea of change right so st's whole thing was we are different from the outgoing government we are going to bring change and we're going to revitalize Britain so for him to start off in this really big speech probably his biggest speech is becomeing prime minister and say well things are going to get worse before they get better that's not going to inspire much belief in the British public that change will happen under labor and I don't think the British public frankly have a lot of bandwidth for more gloom and more Doom right what the British people wants now is something to cling on to something to hang your hat on the idea that well things are bad at the moment but I can see a pathway to things getting better and what he's saying is hey guys I'm here and change is basically we're going to make your lives a bit better but generally speaking things are going to get worse things will remain broken things won't work but they might get better at some point it's this kind of vague promise that things will get better at some point you can't hang your hat on that what people want is the idea of change now and look the the conservative party left the mess behind no one denies that it's clear for everyone which is why they are no longer in government but labor can do things to make people's Liv better when it comes to the idea of finding money labor could commit to taxing for super rich and and you know these kind of wealthy companies but they're refusing to do so so labor are making not kind of these tough choices labor are making political choices and I do think the tone for labor the idea that things are going to get worse means they're kind of shortening their honeymoon period right because people are going to be like what's the point of this if we're going to change government things are going to be the same what is the what is the point of all of this I mean even on things like Asylum there's like a slight tonal shift and they're not going to do Rwanda for example like great fantastic but even on like that kind of issue he's asked a question about safe fruits and St has a chance to be like yes we're going to advocate for safe fruits and really change the narrative on immigration on Asylum and instead what starma does is use the type of language you might have heard like a a conservative leader use in the past he said something about we're going to tackle these smuggle the gangs and we're going to be down down with the gangs now for anyone with any idea about how the sil system works in this country the reason why people travel across this English Channel on dingies or hang on the back of lorries to come to this country isn't because the thrill of it isn't because they enjoy that the reason people do that is because there are no safe roots for people fleeing persecution in Afghanistan or Sudan wherever it might be to seek refuge in our country we don't offer them any safe fruits to come here and labor and St had a chance to challenge this well actually no what we're going to do we're going to bring change we're going to be different what we're going to do is safe fruits instead he goes down with the gangs so so much of what labor are offering tonally at the moment isn't enough to inspire hope or belief that they're going to change things and fundamentally people voted for change or people wanted theories out because they wanted something different and if what voters are seeing is a slight difference and I could just kind of maybe a slight tone difference but nothing tangible or significant voters are going to lose belief very very quickly in labor the final point I'd make is Labour's vote wasn't about you know everyone was so fooled by Labor's Manifesto I think people voted for labor because a Fed Up theories in many cases and if they now see labor using this language things are going to get gloomy and it's going to be dark they're going to be like what's genuinely what's the point of this so I found Theona D speech really really odd and I think it's a really risky approach for him to adopt yeah I think that's so true you know quick quick statistic here which I think we have to keep at the Forefront of our minds is that one in five people who were eligible to vote just voted for labor one in five right they got 33.5% of the votes something like that uh it's the smallest share of the vote to ever win a majority of one let alone 170 plus now if they had just won a 1997 style share of the vote and then you do this like I kind of get it but you you can't afford to do that when you literally are winning one in five voters already and now you're saying actually I can't really do very much and that's a really point you make Mike about get the Tories out for what you tell me more competent Tories and by the way I don't think labor has to be like that even with K sta I think they could and should do things differently they don't have to be radical to do that but that speech there is precisely what K starma is saying quite extraordinary a central theme in st's speech was the idea that the Tories had allowed the rot to set in there's rot in the country there's rot in the system and that's all because there was rot in the government H now they say people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones but neither should politicians get caught up in a passes for glasses Scandal what am I talking about well that's a reference to this report in the Sunday Times and number 10 it gave a Downing Street pass to labor donor and Pier wahed Ali after he donated half a million pound to the party by the way Mr Ali is worth £200 million Ali has also donated large sums to Kama personally giving the labor leader over £16,000 of quite work clothing pairs of glasses worth nearly £3,000 and nearly £40,000 for private office costs and accommodation now that cronyism Scandal has been garnering the most attention in the media but may not be the worst example labor has also defended handing a senior civil servant role to a political appointee Jess Sergeant Jess Sergeant was appointed to a senior role in the cabinet offices propriety and Constitution group that's the body responsible for maintaining ethics across whiteall they watch the Watchers with critics saying that giving Sergeant the job undermines the impartiality of the Civil Service before being elevated to the cabinet office worked for labor together a labor right think tank packed to the rafters with starmac cronies these recent events led to this question over cronyism at starmer's Rose Garden event your administration's already been criticized for making a lot of appointments political appointments inside the civil service inside what should be strictly non-political appointments wouldn't it be a good idea to have a review Now by your commissioner for ministerial standards just to set the record called straight to clear the air because at the moment a lot of people are wondering whether you really are getting the rot out in terms of the way public administration works well look and most of these uh allegations and accusations are coming from the very people that dragged our country down in the first place so you'll forgive me uh if I take uh that approach to it um we are going to fix the foundations we've got to do it at speed and I'm determined to have the right people in the right places to allow us to get on with that job I'm uh in enormously aware of how big a task this is and how we have to move at PACE um and that's why we're getting the best people into the best jobs but I'm not really going to take lectures uh on this from the people who dragged our country so far down in the last few years I'm not going to take lectures from the Tories about this well the Tories are lecturing you K I am the Sunday Times is people within your own party are you cannot cherry-pick a senior civil servant working at the cabinet office whose job is to oversee high standards public office when it comes they come they previously worked at an organization labor together which is basically a super pack for the labor party that's how it was described by John crudus it's not a think tank it's a Super PAC it channels millions of pounds from multi-millionaire donors including hedge fund managers Trevor chin it channels money from them into uh candidates offices quote unquote free research so they can shape policy it's policy capture it's political capture in real time and the incredible thing with the sergeant story is it's also an attempted capture at the permanent State apparatus I mean my goodness Vladimir ilich Lenin would be impressed uh Mike what did you make of K st's response there I think again it's this is kind of dismissive tone of you can't hold me to account this idea that we're different from the conservative party they're a mess we're decent I think the problem for starma is one of the key dividing lines he's chosen to draw between himself and the out going conservative Administration is one of competence and decency so we're going to restore political standards as you know it the kind of good old days Great British public decency we're going to be good public servants now this story this emerging story undermines that because he was so he went so hard we have to remember on the Tory SLE stories and rightfully so by the way those stories expose the rots we have the heart of of our politics and the Heart of our government but starma cannot be seen to be doing the same thing because literally the big dividing line was hey we're more competent and we're decent we're actually decent people we care about you so the idea that he's now doing the same thing I said well actually hold on a minute you said to us things are going to get worse before they get better that's the first thing you said you're not offering that much differently substantially we can look at be like this is really different and you're now also engaging in the same kind of SAS and Corruption that we saw from the previous administration what really are you Karma so I do think this raises concerns about the dividing line that Karm has chosen to draw between himself and the conservative party so more than anything it underlines one of K's Central messages that he's told voters for years and years I'm decent I'm going to restore good standards to public service I'm going to serve the nation with like you know integrity and decency that's not decent to kind of stuff these independent bodies with your guys but that's not how things should work so I think starm is making a rod for own back here and is you know leaving himself open to quite big attacks that you know whether it's the times whether it's us people can kind of you know hit these quite easy punches because labor leave themselves open to them yeah this is really key I mean and the problem with social media is you know people look at these stories if they like K St they say oh it's no big deal it's it's stirring uh if they don't like K St they say oh my God he's worse than Boris Johnson these are very significant stories one we've not mentioned is Rachel Reeves basically appointed somebody to work for her who'd previously given her money obviously very bad not illegal but um I suspect uh it's a it's a significant preach of protocol I don't suspect I know um you have the story with regards to Jess Sergeant Now quickly senior civil servants have to go through an open you know accountable scrutiny process you can't just pick somebody there has to be um an open you know tendering process so to speak with regards to Personnel uh you can have exceptions you you can have exceptions under certain you know uh circumstances I don't see why this would fit into those circumstances but you can have exceptions but it's particularly problematic because they decided not to adhere to the normal protocol by at the same time hiring somebody from labor together right a very factional organization within the labor party and then finally on the wahed Ali story you know he's a labor peer he's not just a donor so people say well he's a peer they're just making this up peers don't have number 10 passes members of the cabinet don't have number 10 passes if if the if the if the chancellor if the foreign secretary wants to see the pm at number 10 they have to go through the front door like everyone else wahed Ali this man who's given so much money to starma and labor didn't have to do that he didn't have to do that and most remarkably of all in that Sunday time story there was a source in number 10 saying we have no idea who gave this pass out we have no idea who did it and it's only been seven weeks folks and as Mike says if you're pitching yourself as uniquely um ethical principal you really believe in Pro proerty in public life it's probably not wise to have three of these scandals in under two months but what do I know it's not often Tech billionaires are arrested Telegram CEO Arrested but that's precisely what happened to pavl durov the Russian born billionaire and founder of the telegram messaging app on Saturday evening ad durov arrived in Paris on board a private jet and was quickly taken into custody on Monday evening the Paris prosecutor published a statement saying Mr durov was being held as part of a wider investigation into cyber criminality that statement mentioned 12 different offenses under investigation that it said were linked to organized crime including illicit transactions child pornography fraud and the refusal to disclose information to authorities the statement added that Mr durov's time in custody had been extended and could now last until Wednesday now this is a big deal not least because durov who is regarded as Russia's equivalent of Mark Zuckerberg has previously locked horns with Vladimir Putin in 2014 durov left Russia claiming persecution by the Putin regime that's after he allegedly refused to comply with a request made by the Russian FSB their security services to hand over personal data of Ukrainian protesters and opposition leaders during eurom maidan since 2017 he's been resident in the UAE so not your archetypal Pro Kremlin oligarch in 2021 he even became a French Citizen and if you've never heard of telegram before it's one of the world's largest social media and messaging platforms along with Facebook WhatsApp Instagram Tik Tok and WeChat in July Mr durov claimed the platform had reached 950 million monthly active users wow and it's certainly used by a very wide range of people enjoying popularity not only in Russia and Ukraine but also among dissident groups in Iran bellarus and Hong Kong of course it first came to real public attention here in the UK during race riots earlier this month a telegram's unique selling point is that it offers endtoend encryption which means the messages can only be read on the device that sends them and the device that receives them which is perhaps why governments have been increasingly taking an interest in Mr DV and his staff here he is speaking to tuer Carlson early this year we got too much attention from the the FBI the security agencies whenever we came to the US so to give you an example last time I was in the US I brought an engineer that is working for telegram and there was an attempt to secretly hire my engineer behind my back by cyber security off officers or agents whatever they are called the US government should to hire your engineer that's my understanding that's what he told me to write code for them or to break into telegram they were curious to learn which open- source libraries are integrated to the telegram's app you know on the client side and they were trying to persuade him to use certain open Source tools that he would then integrate into the telegram code that in my understanding would serve as backd doors would allow the US government to spy on people who use telegram the US government or maybe any other government because a back door is a back door regardless of who is using it that's right and and and you're that's a little surprising to hear maybe it's not surprising it's it's offensive you're confident that happened yes there is no reason for my engineer to make up the stories also because I personally experienced similar pressure in the US whenever I would go to the US I would have two FBI agents greeting me at the airport asking questions one time I was uh having my breakfast like 9:00 a. and uh the FBI showed up my house that I was renting and uh there was quite surprising and I thought you know we're getting too much attention here uh it's probably not the best environment to run why would the had you committed a crime no they were interested to learn more about telegram they knew I you know left Russia they they knew what we were doing but they wanted details and my understanding is that they wanted to establish a relationship to you know way control telegram better really extraordinary interview uh in response to this news Elon Musk made a suitably serious response on x POV it's 2030 in Europe and you're being executed for liking a me he has a gift doesn't he even though it's a very serious uh moment he somehow makes it pure telegram published its own response on X saying this telegram abides by EU laws including the Digital Services act its moderation is within indust standards and constantly improving telegram CEO pav jurov has nothing to hide and travels frequently in Europe as we've said already he's a French citizen it is absurd to claim that a platform or its owner are responsible for abuse of that platform almost a billion users globally used telegram as means of communication and as a source of Vital Information we're awaiting a prompt resolution of this situation telegram is with you all really impressive response I mean quite different Elon musk's you know we're not breaking any laws you that's probably what you want to read if you're stuck on the inside of a prison cell people trying to be calm and sort the situation out meanwhile Emanuel macron president of the French Republic was eager to emphasize the independence of the French Judiciary I have seen false information regarding France following the arrest of pavl durov France is deeply committed to freedom of expression and communication to Innovation and the spirit of Entrepreneurship it will remain so in a state governed by the rule of law freedoms are upheld with an a legal framework both on social media and in real life to protect citizens and respect their fundamental rights it is up to the Judiciary and full Independence to enforce the law the arrest of the president of telegram on French soil took place as part of an ongoing judicial investigation it is in no way a political decision it is up to the judges to rule on the matter I want to uh just read this really thought-provoking tweet before we go any further and it's from Sha Maguire he's a partner at Sequoia Capital imagine the year is 1994 and Vince Surf and Rob khah have just been arrested their invention TCP IP an integral uh part of the modern internet is being used for drug dealers to communicate with each other and they are unwilling to install a back door the equivalent version of this just happened with telegram I am not a Libertarian or a cyber utopian but it's an interesting question isn't it you wouldn't arrest the CEO of AT&T or BT because people were phoning each other up to organize illegal activity and it does make you think if somebody's being held responsible for everything that happens on a Communications tool or platform then pretty quickly nobody is going to want to build them and another question that comes to mind is if paval durov can be arrested can Elon Musk tny gray Paralympian Made To Crawl Off Train Thompson is an 11-time Paro Olympic gold medal winner for wheelchair racing she's also won the London Marathon six times as a life peer in the House of Lords and Patron of numerous Charities but none of those accolades spared her the indignity she suffered while taking the train as a person with a disability speaking to the BBC breakfast program gray Thompson explained what happened to her so I was booked on the quarter past 7 train from leads missed it got to the station 7:30 and they said don't worry we'll put you on the quarter to 8 uh got into London at 2 2011 uh no one was there to meet me uh you're meant to give about 5 minutes uh for anyone to come and get you I left that I started tweeting um and then 16 minutes after sitting on the train uh I decided there was no one coming there was you know there was a cleaner on board but they're not insured or able to help you off they're not trying to use ramps I decided to crawl off so I had to get out of my chair on the floor push it off uh and all my bags uh and and get off the train that way incredible incredible by the way I'd love to hear people feedback about this story using comments or on X I am so much more aware of this stuff having had a child nine months ago you go onto a four Carriage Train sometimes a tiny space for wheelchairs uh for uh prams for bikes it's a mess the whole thing's a mess gry Thompson went on to describe how the train companies are failing users with disabilities it's exhaust in and and I'm really lucky I have a huge amount of privilege that you know actually various stations follow me on social media um and are able to pick up this it happens to lots and lots of disabled people um we've got a booking app which is not really foot for purpose and it fails if there's lack of communication we have a legal right to turn up and go just to ask to get on a train um and trains were meant to be step three by January the 1st 2020 um and the last government said it's going to be hundred years before disabled people can get on a train without the permission or support of a non-disabled person uh and it's just it's exhausting really I was really angry last night um I mean mostly because you know I can just about do it but there are lots and lots of other disabled people who can't and would have been stuck until who knows when just utterly appalling utterly appalling um quickly going back as well to what I said a moment ago about being far more aware of this I mean I was aware of of course you read about it you hear stories like this but viscerally aware of it um yes using trains between places also the London Underground so many stations on the London Underground do not have step-free access so many one of the wealthiest we have a conversation about how Britain isn't actually that rich that's Broly true actually but one of the wealthiest cities in the world like you could be a multi-millionaire in London you cannot use the underground it's crazy one of the wealthiest cities in the world a city of 10 million people a world world city and so many stations aren't step free there are lifts in obviously many places but not all of them just an indictment frankly on our political system being able to get the basics right uh for more on this here's award-winning disability activist Anna Landry I heard from tny last night what happened and I think my first reaction was unfortunately that this happens all the time um that it seems shocking to those who may not wheelchair users but in fact assistance failes are really common the O for instance finds that 15% of assistance bookings are completed insufficiently meaning people like tan are having to crawl off trains because they forgot in the ramp I myself have been left on trains many times or refused boarding of them so I think my first reaction was yeah that makes sense which is really disappointing unfortunately we see things worsening recent as rail companies are not complying with our obligations because there's no enforcement and there's no um reason for them to be doing so given the lack of respect for disabled people's rights under the law so we're seeing these things happen more frequently we're also seeing disabled people become more able to communicate that they're happening communicate with one another um and I'm hoping to see more activism and um more complaints filed to in order to combat this but it really shouldn't our responsibility there are loads of solutions luckily to lack of Transport access um one of them is informing disabled people and educating um transport staff that we all have the right to turn up and go um turn up and go is a right that disabled people have Mobility but what you see is rail companies trying to force disabled people into booking in advance and so when we show up with our ticket like everyone else telling us that we're not allowed to board the train so enforcing those rights is is a really first a really good first step um in addition enforcement the equality act as many people might know um is not at all enforced it's on the disabled person to Sue either the rail company or whomever is responsible and that is a huge burden rather than making it on disabled people to enforce the law there are plenty of policy levers by creating an on budsman doing random checks and having proper government enforcement that could be done to prevent things like this from happening to T or anyone again at the moment I'm in Paris for the 2024 par Olympics um and these are I think one of the times every two years with winter and summer par Olympics when disabled people's issues come to the Forefront and what you're seeing paralympians particularly from Team GB share right now is that we have to not only support disabled people during these times of great Sports um and athletic achievement but also in everyday Hy great homson herself is a paralympian and she's being forced now that she's retired to crawl off trains because she's not being given a r you know we can't on the one hand fear for our athletes and support them once every couple of years but leave them to such horrific lack of access and violations of their rights at all other points it's really wrong that was disability rights activist and alandre really powerful point at the end there about tson once the agulation of a athletic career is behind you being reduced to this which is just the reality obviously for people with disabilities across the UK uh really important to say as well I was talking about how bad it is on the London Underground that is the gold standard in this country right there's far worse I'm not trying to indicate that that's somehow the worst or the worst I don't live in London I know how much worse it is outside of London but even where there is investment even where there is thoughtful political leadership you have a relatively sympathetic London mayor and so on it's still it's still awfully awfully um falling short of where it should be the labor leadership are reportedly back to doing what they do best at changing the Labour Moving Goalposts party's rules to suit them specifically in this case amending the rules to elect labor party leaders a quick refresher the last time starm rights attempted to make it harder for left Winger to get into power was in 2021 back then they succeed in increasing the number of MP nominations that a candidate needs to get on the ballot from 10% of the Parliamentary party to 20% that's making it harder for an outsider candidate to be put forward to the membership after all an outsider might disagree with a narrowly constrained two-party consensus they might even think millionaires shouldn't be able to buy political influence we can't have that that was particularly weird as a political priority from K stama given it was the very same system that just let let him win it's so bad I won we have to change it but now something even stranger is happening because the the labor party might be back to changing its leadership election rules even when you'd hope they might just have slightly more important things to be worrying about like governing the country the Sunday Times reported over the weekend that labor conference this September could see a members stripped of the right to choose a leader when the party is in government in words members would still choose the party leader when in opposition for now but would have no role whatsoever in picking the Prime Minister this proposal is allegedly in response to the calamitous Premiership of Liz truss in 2022 truss defeated Rishi sunak to replace Boris Johnson and in doing so she became the first Prime Minister chosen by a party membership that's not quite true as it happened with Boris Johnson too however there were other occasions when that wasn't the case in 2007 Gordon Brown replaced Tony Blair unopposed and of course the same happened with Rishi sunak in the Autumn of 2022 so it's not that usual the subtext then is simple in order to avoid a leftwing version of Liz truss who almost crashed brison's Pension funds this rule needs to change the Sunday Times goes on to report this the scheme is viewed as a way to avoid a repeat of the Tory leadership contest in 2022 when Tori members made trust leader despite her not having the support of a majority of MPS the contest also lasted nearly two months with six weeks taken up by runoff ballots for members between truss and Richi sunak while the energy price crisis mounted allies of starma believe a similar scenario should be avoided at all costs by reforming how his successor is elected if the party is still in government they want only MPS to have a say over who should succeed starma as leader quotes there's a plan to bring a constitutional reform to conference that would cut out the membership for electing a leader when we're in government and only allow the MPS to decide said a senior labor source this is seen as the last reform that needs doing to siphon off any threat from the left they added a second said it's known as the Liz trust lock the Tories compounded the country's Misery by letting their members put someone in number 10 the Parliamentary party wouldn't work with so we need to make sure that can't happen again labor declined to comment however a source denied the party leadership was behind the move or would support it calling it a quote nonstarter that's that then don't worry fake news after all a source closed to GE starma would never say anything but the whole unvarnished truth John renel Chief political commentator at the Independence and noted water carrier for the labor rights responded with this a labor was first to allow non-mps to vote for PM it should be first to end it he then proceeded to say this welcome return to principle of parliamentary democracy but I doubt if labor conference is ready to vote for it here we go again uh the party leadership and the ruling faction fix the Parliamentary selections about who can become MPS and the MPS determine who should be the party leadership that's democracy didn't you know the public where are they well they don't matter they don't matter MPS select the leader leader selects the MPS now in principle in principal I'm not having a Michael Walker moment here but hear me out I'm not opposed to MP's choosing the party leader provided the MPS themselves are subject to mandatory selection and aren't parachuted in by a ruling cabal in London members choose MPS MPS choose leader I think that's reasonable but remember according to much the media class wanting mandatary reselection is revolutionary Insanity are you a stalinist a leninist a trust all the above uh it's not like the libdems and the S SMP have had it for decades or that there are primaries yes primaries in the United States uh Mike is the reason for supporting this rule change as the likes of John rental do essentially the same as their rejection of manat selection fundamentally they don't want people involved in the Democratic process yeah I think so and it's Being Framed by some as a return to democracy as we know this is this is parliamentary democracy the idea that MPS have all the influence and members we don't really need to hear from you when it comes to the important decision you just give us your money and shut up essentially this is democracy I think the problem is in that context and I've seen a few academics actually you know few few the pole profs support this as well but in that context what's are members for because as you said Aron as things stand in so many labor seats MPS or candidates just parachuted in with members having no say whatsoever no oversight whatsoever so members can't vote on who their local candidat is or in some cases and they now being told well also you can't vote on who the leader of the party is but you're important to us we really value our members and we have also have to remember I think there's a context here where labors members are becoming less influential when it comes to policy as well they being shunned and dismissed and put to theide when it comes to policy as well in some cases so members no influence over policy very few little influence of candidates and now they're being told also by the way guys we don't want you to vote in leadership contests what is the point of a a member in that context it's literally just you're saying to members you give us your money you just sit there we make the big decisions where the adults in the room where the grownups where're the decent ones you guys just keep getting us your money that's all we need from you and I don't think that's a sustainable model at all and I think fundamentally V democracy what we need to do is to increase the access points for ordinary system right because we have a system in the moment that in some parts of the country people feew their votes as meaningless right so people are turned up to elections every four years or not turn up to elections every four years because they think what's the point of voting my vote doesn't mean anything here and those people need to have some way they can express or vote in a democratic process whether it's selecting members whether selecting their candidates whether it's having a voice in policy and if all of those access points are limited you're going to essentially have a society where so many people are just entirely disengaged with a political process how on Earth is that healthy how on Earth is that useful labor AR committed to PR for example which would I think increase um and lots of academic research suggests as well but they would increase engagement in politics and now they're saying actually members can't vote to election so so in many ways I think this is anti-democratic I think this is antioc what we're saying is we are stifling and we want to limit the voice and the access points that people have to influence in our politics we're going to concentrate power in the elite and only the elite are going to have the say on really important decisions that's nonsense that's not how democracy Works democracy is all about people having a say and how things operate the idea of membership as well it's idea that you know anyone can join and anyone can have a voice that was that's that's fundamental to membership so you people's voices being qued by these changes that we're seeing it just completely makes no sense so I'm I really don't understand where label go and I think what labor essentially want to do is to trying to ferociously limit the ability of another jery Corbin type candidate and we already saw the rule changes in 2021 that kind of made that possible but this is like another like no no no we are really serious about this there's no chance that ever happens like members that might be the last access point we could have to maybe a kind of a leftwing radical candidate that's never going to happen so part of that is this and St we have to remember has made it absolutely Central to his political project it's crippling the left so I think part of that is kind of baked into this I think it also is and exposes what I think is something that's going to emerge over the next few years I think there is an anti-democratic heart to the starma project I think st's project is very very aaran at heart in in the way it wants to kind of control things and centralize power and if we want to talk about decency in our politics and and you know limiting cor corruption Etc what labor should be doing for example is is limiting LOB and and the idea that kind of rich and powerful people can buy over the influence of MPS those are the big issues we have in our system those are the big issues we have in our politics not members having to say who their leader is that's that's not a problem yeah I I think that point about um authoritarianism is so true because this idea that oh it's about parliamentary sovereignty no you're you're cheering on the centralization of Power with the executive not with Parliament right you're saying that the government of the day K St and his faction can choose the MPS and the MPS can choose the future leader you're centralizing power into this tiny click of people all 100,000 by the way the labor party had 600,000 members now has I think fewer than 400,000 oh 400,000 people shouldn't choose the next prime minister what 200 people should 200 people have you seen the caliber of some of these mpes why do you think they're any better suited than a party membership and by the way oh well Liz truss you could you could talk about Boris Johnson Boris Johnson was voted for by the Tory party membership in in 2019 I don't like that guy I don't agree with him but he won a thumping majority okay because they reflected actually what Tory voters wanted and by the way he got the biggest majority of any Tory in a general election since 1987 oh but they have no idea what the public want really that's kind of a good counter argument isn't it uh so I think some of these academics you're talking about Mike you're a gentleman you don't say names um I I think honestly in the 1820s they would have been for the property qualification they are scared of democracy they don't like democracy they they like quango having power they like the European commission having power power they like special interest groups having power y you know Jewish labor movement Confederation of British industry even maybe the TU that's fine because it's like a bureaucracy but the the messy process of ordinary people being persuaded changing their mind having conversations oh dare I set political people uh political uh figures with power feeling uncomfortable being challenged and of course we've all seen the scenes of them being bullied in the streets which generally means somebody says I don't like what you're standing for but don't do it uh John Ashworth great example of that um look I I like I said earlier I understand the arguments for this but you can only do it if you're going to have Democratic selection of MPS and by the way all of those academics in the likes of John renal cheering the on are not asking for that there's a reason why one in five people eligible to vote just voted for labor it's because people don't have much faith in our democratic system and you want to make it less democratic extraordinary now I'm on the left but Liz Truss Revelations even I have to admit it Liz truss is a historical figure historical indeed that's because she holds the record for the shortest lived Premiership in British political history history maker but in those 49 days that she held power truss managed to rock the UK economy to its core and now she's made the actual history books with the publication of a new volume by political historian Anthony Seldon it's called trusts at number 10 how not to be prime minister and it uses interviews with staffers civil servants and advisers to paint a detailed picture of the most chaotic Premiership ever not in living memory ever uh but it turns out that it wasn't only chaotic it was according to Seldon and I shouldn't laugh downright homicidal too the independent has read the book and reports this gruesome revelation Sir Anthony says a group of mistrusts Tor AIDS met to discuss the issue one of her senior advisers Alex Boyd was told that truss and quatang were thinking they could still sort out the black hole with severe Cuts we've been told that they're looking at stopping cancer treatment on the NHS Mr boy's response was to ask is she being serious writes Sir Anthony while other AIDS said she had quote lost the plot she's shouting at everyone that we've got to find the money when we tell her it can't be done she shouts back it's not true the money is there you go and find it they told the author speaking as the independent Mr quaring said quote I wasn't involved in any conversations about restricting Healthcare but that doesn't mean the Prime Minister and her team didn't discuss this now I had to stop myself from laughing because this is crazy this is objectively the most ridiculous thing I've ever read attributed to a serving or former prime minister it defies belief she's saying that cancer treatment on the NHS could be withdrawn now Liz truss's Chancellor was quasi quat though truss sacked him to save her own skin after their disastrous mini budget sent interest rates rocketing but there was according to Seldon someone else who had begged her for the job one Jacob Reese MOG the paper reports this the author says Mr Reese MOG urged M trust to abolish in Harrison's tax replace all tax rates with a 20p flat rate and organize a stunt to promote nuclear power a stunt that's what we have sh for stunts he writes the then cabinet minister told M trust this we should get a nuclear submarine to dock at Liverpool and plug it into the grid that would show it's safe does that even work does that work I mean I don't this you know it's not like you're plugging in your iPhone into the mains uh I don't know let's let's see the rest of this um Sir Anthony says cabinet secretary Simon case dismissed the idea as a non-starter adding the subs needed operations okay much a nuclear submarine with nucular weapons ducks at Liverpool where I you know Chancellor ree smog plugs it into the mains I almost wish this had happened by the way and uh it's a political son that's apparently going to win you votes Seldon also writes about a certain level of paranoia in number 10 this is from the Independent again he describes friction with other senior conservatives and says that M truss referred to Michael go as a snake after he denounced her tax cuts so Anthony claims that M truss suspected that a dirty trick operation was being planned by unnamed figures in Tor HQ in an effort to stop her from becoming leader he says her allies feared there would be an attempt to quote intimidate her with talk of a thick dossier of her indiscretions her drinking cocaine use by others among her team in the event the dossier quote never materialized says the author Mike we deserve to see this dossier don't we we absolutely do I think list trust is an interesting political figure to put it mildly right so we have to remember she starts her journey as a libdem right a libdem who's anti-monarchy and we see these clips of her speaking out against the monarchy and even as she shift to the right right so she shift to the right and she becomes a Tory MP as we all know and then later on the leader of the party for like five minutes but she actually votes to Main in the European Union right so she's not this kind of like radical kind of cranky MP at this point she's just a kind of like me milit conservative nothing to make what to kind of like think about really and since then she's been on this journey where she's like rubbing shoulders with Donald Trump and Steve Bannon and all these really radical people and talking about how the Deep State um tried to unseat her as part of this kind of radical project they're embarking on to get rid of the the right or whatever it is she talks about so I think it anyways fact she she she shows us fundamentally how not to be a prime minister as the kind of book is titled fundament I think that political journey of going from like kind of the middle of the road lip there anti Mony to being someone who's you know robing shoulders farage and and Trump and and being a cheerly different Donald Trump she Lally goes over to to the US and I think she gives I think earlier this year she was even on a panel Donald Trump which was speaking about Donald Trump as she says something along the lines of I'm here to warn you Donald about the kind of the forces that got me out of power because I think they're after you too and she's made it her her Mission and her kind of her political project now focuses on kind of warning people of this kind of Neo Marxist Revolution against the rights in in the UK it's genuinely interesting she think that marxists have that much power in UK kind of wish they did but it's not the case at the moment so yeah I just think you know list trust is someone that you know fascinates me I'd love to know a bit more about what goes on in her head I want to read this book I want read this book and then uh I think once I've read the book I would love to into you as trust uh Mike thanks for joining me tonight great show as ever Pleasures always the B Team back in Action you love to see it yeah the B team after bank holiday it was uh was much needed much overdue and thanks everyone for watching this evening this show will be back on Wednesday tomorrow you've been watching Navara media good night e