Trump Assassination Attempt: Sense-Making with John Robb

Introduction and the Value of Twitter for Information Flow yeah it's events like this that actually make Twitter so valuable yeah you just can't get the the news flow or the information flow from major media sources right um and it should be coming up here soon and we'll record too all right so we've got this sorted okay when it pops up then I'll ping it out all right that'd be great what a crazy 24 Hours come on let's go now for I mean given what eight years of you know threat to democracy rhetoric it's amazing how little people actually you know in terms of believing it I mean if they if people actually believe that rhetoric you'd think that there would be so much more action there certain uh yeah I mean when I saw it come out I was not shocked or surprised at all right I think most people were expecting it right well like I mean this is something people have been talking to your point eight years I mean so uh applying the kind of UDA to this is like um you know what did we observe and we're getting all the the different pieces of information that you wouldn't get through the major media through Twitter different camera angles videos um yeah and I think to your point about the eight years that orientation has been shaped that hive mind has been shaped so so I don't know what to describe that as but now it's influencing on how people see things and how they make decisions and how they act in Loop you know it's it's really something yeah it's a network tribalism in action ah you've been you've been talking about that as long as I've known you and been following your work you've been talking about Network tribalism for years I mean Network Tribalism and the Impact of Social Networking for the people that are listening that don't know why don't you just give a thumbnail of what that actually is and what we're seeing oh um goes back to how we were we've been rewired by networking social networking um it's changed the way we actually process information so we uh tend to focus on the pattern matching in order to cope with the amount of information that we're being hammered with and pattern matching means that we grab pieces of information out of the flow um and put them together into a cohesive hole we don't read everything we can't read everything um it's too much um problem with that is that uh there are a lot of people working on prefabricated patterns for understanding reality and those prefabrication usually you know involve millions of people are participating to um put together a pattern that reflects some kind of tribal identity um usually uh identification of something they're against um and um like you're Against Racism or you're against Trump or you're against something um and those patterns are very compelling and you know people are trained to actually see the world through those patterns that tribal that tribal lens um they reject the information that isn't compatible with the pattern and they immediately pick out and amplify the information that is that shows that this enemy is terrible that shows that this uh uh pattern is correct um and so that kind of defined our politics has become the basis for how we discuss information how we process information as as a society um and um that is you know Understanding Patterns and Avoiding Polarization if if you know anything about tribalism tribalism doesn't it it's very black and white You Know The Enemy isn't just an enemy it's it's not a person even it's like this horrible thing that evil that has to be eliminated um and that um that kind of polarization is is very dangerous particularly in you know the current context John and Mark I want to take a look at the go back to Boyd's work and make sure we all are have a good Baseline here so the the strategic game of interaction isolation that's what we're experiencing right now that's what we're talking about with tribalism I want to talk about a few things before we dive a little bit deeper into what's happening today uh on the show we've been engaging with a lot of folks from different backgrounds from Neuroscience biology uh cognitive science psychology you name it here's a few basic things that we're learning about our orientation and I think John you know this and I think most of our listeners know this please add to this as as I go through it uh we know that humans like to seek low energy attractor states and external environment so those Echo chambers that are out there um we have that proclivity to move towards those uh towards those biases if you will we know that the human brain is inherently lazy it's always looking for shortcuts we know that because 2% of our body weights burning 20% of our energy it we naturally want to find and seek these low energy states uh humans seek to minimize surprise this is that new information coming in into our UDA Loop so we know in orientation that uh the synthesis and Analysis between genetics culture uh pre experience and new information is key and it's that new information flow that needs to be attacked or Amplified dampened or Amplified in order to create a a new orientation there we also know that humans constantly reconstruct the past and and I want to throw out there there are many arsonists that have been out in the last three or four years telling us you know suppressing information uh condoning the U you know cancel culture and all that and today they're turning and saying well I didn't know this back then right now these arsonists are turning into firefighters saying look at look at all these things that we need to fix and at the same time I'm looking backwards and saying well you were part of the reason we got here and then humans see the world from different Advantage points and one great example of that is uh there's actually a couple um Boyd talks about this quite a bit or talked about it quite a bit and that is when we observe something we actually change what we're observing we also know when we look at a at a rainbow if we close one of our eyes uh you know cover one of our eyes the rainbow shifts a little bit um so even as an individual your your own sensory capability see differently uh and you actually construct that reality as well so uh key Point here is reality is constructed top down inside out um that's what we're talking about inside of the UDA Loop that's why this is critical that people understand this if you understand how we perceive reality uh how we plan how we adapt then then we can get there and the external environment this comes from complexity Theory and that is you amplify those things that you want as a leader or a manipulator if you will you find those things that are going to benefit you your point of view or your advantage and you amplify that and you dampen those things that don't right so there's a lot of things going on with Boyd's uh udal loop here the strategic game of interaction and isolation I just want you to build on that and then we could dive into what's actually happening today uh that way our listeners understand what what why is the UDA Loop so damn important in this uh in this age thoughts um any specific part of that that you want to anything you want yeah that's a lot yeah that's that is quite a bit that was great um wow you know it's it a lot of this trying to make sense of this is trying to figure out what doesn't fit what you know what's trying to be um what seems in congruous what what what doesn't make sense um you know from a you know an objective Viewpoint and um you know things like in noticing that this guy was out in the middle of a rooftop in a you know and wasn't detected you know only 150 yards away it's just it's uh and knowing the history of how these events are usually set up with people who are recruited and then motivated and then provided the weapon and then provided the local that they should be in um and we do that you we've done that with terrorists in the past the underwear bomb and people like that or the even the you know the plot on the the Michigan governor and the like it's like um that kind of stands out is like okay is this a setup or you know it was this you know an intentional event or was this not Analyzing Incongruities and Unusual Events um and trying to process through that uh hey John I want to comment on that our backgrounds in aviation we know that we it's hard to go back in time and look at you know an aircraft ACC and mishap and and we can you know Monday Mor to quar quarterback that all the time but we didn't we weren't there we weren't in that situation we don't know what they knew at the time and what was going on there so um I'm not saying that what you're presenting is wrong it's just we have a tendency to look back at a mishap in aviation and go how do they not see this right yeah but I mean you're good at that too I mean whenever I see a aircraft app I run through what they were thinking at the time and how that actually happened and almost always you could actually figure out exactly what their thought process was um remember JFK Jr you know the one that crashed This Plane into the into the uh um into the ocean I mean going through that whole process you can actually see how you know that extra weight on on his cast on his foot put a little extra weight on on you on on the r it's like and losing the The Horizon because it was a little foggy out and then you know you could see how he would get into a little wing tilt and that would you know cause him to lose some altitude and then see him pull and then see him pull at an angle and even in that that even in that situation you and I had far greater and better training than he did in that right right right so I mean we were better we know that and and we could see that so so again but you could see that given his limitations you know 80 hours of of of of of what is it ultr light training and then you know a couple dozen hours of of actual flight training and that how he would fall into this how he would miss you know he wasn't an instrument qualified pilot and and how he'd lose losing that Horizon was was critical and all that how those things impacted the way he thought and and um how he inevitably almost fell into this he had no chance right and without that kind of training without the kind of insight so um I don't know if that's actually you know the wrong way to approach it I mean I I can see that you could you could put yourself in their decision-making process and see how they fell into it yeah um so that I mean I think that's useful but it's that it's that previous experience that we pointed out there that's that part that's part of that orientation we had it we've been trained on it um this you know this setup that we saw yesterday it's not what I'm trained on but we are trained to challenge assumptions and run through red team scenarios what is a likely thing that's going to happen today what's the worst thing and how would you do it if you you know as as a as a as a Maverick coming into this and not knowing the context how would you do it so build on that some more please oh into this kind of shooting scenario or the Secret Service scenario or or the like the shoot yesterday yeah let's yesterday scenario yeah things that bugged me right off the bat there The Role of Pattern Matching in Information Processing wasn't any drone coverage or it didn't look like there was any drone coverage because it was been uh easily picked up with bystanders actually pointing out even videoing the guy before his shot uh took the shot um see him clamber up the idea that this guy found the exact point in the coverage that that uh uh wasn't covered by the counter snipers um the fact that he was a sniper not in the crowd and it was like so visible on this big empty rooftop um and he wasn't picked up um and that that this guy apparently he doesn't look like he has the kind of training the expertise or the uh to kind of pull this thing off or even Mount this kind of thing without some level of support structure to get him to the point where he is so all those things kind of hit me and um worry is that you know also that knowing a lot about organizations how bureaucracies work I mean you I I could walk into any kind of small company tech company or even a big bureaucracy and after a couple minutes figure out what's wrong you know we done minutes but I mean you spend a little time these organizations you can actually see where the information flow goes wrong and what you know what kind of behaviors are actually uh uh blitzing uh or causing problems um is that you know looking at the Secret Service and seeing this kind of Gap and seeing this U lack of responsiveness to bystanders leaving you know leaving this kind of thing open um is a problem I me I don't I I think that's it's it's a it's something that raises a little red flag for me um you know was it compromised you know was a coverage compromised in order to set up this this opportunity space because it had to be a narrow opportunity space it wasn't like something this guy could discovered knowing everything he'd have to know everything about everything it just not that not that kind of guy didn't look like that from his profile um so you there's all sorts of problems with this uh and then the larger geopolitical situation is that you know we're going into a conflict that I may may end up in World War II um and that uh Trump looks like he's the kind of guy that will actually come in and make peace with Russia almost immediately Biden hasn't talked to Putin since beginning of the conflict um and that he would uh diffuse it and unwind this um and that's a lot of people have a lot of money and and and interest in having this continue um so so on the on the on the grander context of everything Mark and I we've been in the archives and I want to point out something Mark you might have this available too um this is from 1989 on the strategic game boyd starts talking about something very important here and this this is uh when we think about moral Authority legal Authority policy and Doctrine what are we driving at what are we emphasizing and he goes on to say focus in direction or social survival via constraints and control top down that's what we're talking about uh in the context legal moral Authority policy and Doctrine right this raises the question how do we change these constraints and controls in other words how do we change the character nature of these entities in in our constitution we have Provisions for change where do these emanate from bottom up outside in bottom up that's that's the voter that's us right in this sense from a means end perspective means determined ends are achievable now going back to what I brought up about attractors and all that um in the world of complexity Theory you want to amplify things you want to find things that uh favor your position for example and I'll use this this might be a little controversial uh illegals coming across the border that provide a way for people to vote and I'm not saying how that that works but um right one our constitution is our constitution the way if if I recall that correctly it's ours I'm an American citizen it's my Constitution it's not an illegals Constitution to change Mark I want to hear your thoughts on that man well I mean the I mean isn't the Constitution and borders would actually make a nation right I mean that's that's the compact that we have um and then I yeah go ahead go ahead John yeah no no just because I'm writing the process of writing a report on this is that where everything went wrong in the in the mid 90s as we as a country reoriented from a cold war stance to a post Cold War stance and that we made one critical assumption failure is that we substituted Global Focus for National Focus we we took that Global focus and then it took us down the path on a national security front to go police the world and that got abused through the neocons and everyone else nation building toppling countries trying to reshape the Middle East and that kind of crap and then um it got abused in terms of trade policy to this like let's open up the borders to China D and it just NAFTA the whole thing let it doesn't matter if we lose jobs in manufacturing and all that other stuff now we're completely dependent on China for manufacturing and and and and and we're TR truly screwed if we ever get into a real conflict and then it um we globalized uh in terms of culture too and so that globalization hit us in terms of uh deemphasizing nationalism you know the the whole National story was was attacked and you know deemphasized that's what you call the fictive kinship right yeah well we need as a country we need uh fictive kinship yeah we need tribalism there's a base level of tribalism which goes back to uh uh ronf felt's uh characterization you have the bureaucracy kind of layer and then you have markets helps to add a Dynam dynamism and then you have U tribalism which is the oldest kind of way of binding a group and that's the story that we tell about ourselves and why we're together and why we're better together in the future right and if you destroy that tribal layer I you don't have any cohesion and so we did this through a process of trying to create a kind of we destroyed that layer by creating a global Utopia where identity uh unmowed unconnected to tradition and history is is is more important than our culture is cultural relativism is better than the rest of the world uh it's actually worse in many respects our history sucks so there's no nationalism there's no narrative there's no story and then um that globalist perspective that Utopia wasn't possible it's not viable it's like like it all three of those things are um still in force today and it explains almost all the things that we've had problems with um the lack of focus on a national identity and National progress in improving us as a group um has destroyed our cohesion destroyed our ability to act as a as as a cohesive entity and um damaged us in many many ways and um I don't see it turning around I there isn't really even with Trump there really isn't a cohesive or coherent narrative for rationalizing The Importance of a Cohesive National Identity the US um and not you know horrible way I mean you know but in a way that actually says okay we're focused on improving the quality of life for our citizens and the Constitution means something citizenship means something um you know you can see the globalist perspective on borders borders don't exist in the globalist perspective and a fully realized one it's like open um and and that's the kind of thing we're in right now as unbelievable as it is just open the borders and and um fail to enforce any kind of border control um just kind of weird land that we've landed in but anyway so that I jumped on that because it really hit that the essence of that that how a little assumption are and orientation points you entirely the wrong yeah Direction and that one little choice that kind of we stumbled into um you know led us to this kind of situation we find ourselves in today kind of aimless one of the one of the thinkers that you've tied in with Boyd years ago that you made me aware of I only knew him as the guy that interviewed John and Yoko but uh Marshall mcclan you had a a global gorillas report back in 18 was called mclan at war or mclan on war war y yeah and there's you know in the in the conversation we've had thus far I mean you've really hit on multiple mclan topics one was the global village he predicted a global village and it wasn't a good thing you know wasn't a good thing that um through the the hyperconnectivity that we would all be inside of each other's business and things like that the global village was actually something that was uh to be avoided the other thing around um and I just tagged you on that note on suback yesterday about network tribalism from his interview with Playboy in 1969 where he says that that tribal search for identity is the path to to violence I mean that's violence comes from that um and then of course the big mclan theme of is the medium is domestic and I think that that's really the the the big one to talk about first because I think they kind of explain the others but they it all ties really well with Boyd um what are your thoughts on uh what are your thoughts on some of that well I mean the medium is the message right uh is that um when we wiped out nationalism by globalizing pic global perspective is that um and destroyed the story The Narrative that fueled that intentionally destroyed that narrative um people sought for another one they wanted they needed it they needed that search for identity led us to this tribal identity this this and and the tribal identities that we've ended up with are misshape and they're broken um they're not positive tribal identities like why we are together where where we're going how we're going to you know achieve more um their tribal identity is based on opposition you know this is who we hate and how we hate it and um I don't think anything can come good you know is good that could come out of that um it comes into kind of it fills that vacuum um and then the global village Insight uh people were using it wrongly for for decades you know they were saying we're a global village in a good way um but uh uh Global villagers were backbiters they were gossipers they were they were witch burners they were engaged in pgms they they they killed everybody who didn't fit in at some point those guys are making too much money the whole Salem WIS trials was based on on trying to you know land seizure and the like it's a it's a it's a very Bloody Business and we've created that environment um in the online world and we've destroyed the only things that actually could mitigate that or or reduce the violence that comes out of that that makes sense or yeah no yeah totally I mean it's it's amazing and it goes back to another mclan theme that you talk about all the time and so does Boyd and that's and that's pattern matching right and um a conversation that you and I had back in May around um a version of patterns of conflict that Boyd gave in ' 89 to the uh Marine Corp Command Staff College the question question was asked about using Terror as a weapon and and and basically what Boyd replied with is that you can do that but you got to be really careful with that because and here's why because what you could do is not break the cohesion of the enemy what you might actually do is reinforce them and solidify them um and it could blow back right in your face and he said that 1989 and and you pointed out that that's a that's a that was you know a phenomenal case of pattern matching yeah and that specific thing that that he said was that really caught my eye was that any nation that goes into a war uh in the modern context where everything is reported all this kind of feedback lips even the TV stuff that he was talking about at the time and we're way beyond that now um and I think that they can actually use kind of medieval violence levels or levels of violence that you know that that uh you know of the 1800s or before is is an idiot they're going to get crushed by they're going to be they're going to they're going to be rolled over and it was exactly the same thing I was trying to make earlier with the with Israel's response is that uh to October 7th was that they were in a larger context a larger War an online war and that they nobody reigned them in a good president good Ali would have said right in the first week or two said no stop you're going to destroy yourselves this is worth worth quoting because because again this is now this is straight boid and you could you could tie it to mun and other things of what's going on so so the question from the audience said Colonel could you go to the last slide he goes basically the idea of Terror in other words scaring your enemy badly enough before you get there so far as to unhinge him sort of like the British did in the facons they said they were bringing the giras and they're going to do bad things to the argentinians when they catch them somewhere in your presentation do you get on how we might use that today given you know Congressional rules and media coverage one of the things you're getting at with the Mongols here is that they terrorized people long before they actually showed up so this is Boyd's answer and I think John as you just alluded to Boyd says well we've got it we've got these things today called terrorists as a matter of fact we call them terrorists state sponsored terrorism Etc and the gorillas use it very heavily you've got to be careful on how you use it and I'll be talking about that later but one thing you want to do you want to know your adversary if you use Terror and you may also end up to actually goddamn build up his resolve and cause you big problems down the then then too in other words you unify him against you so if you're going to use that Terror you better understand how you're going to use it will it really pull him apart or is it going to unify him against you you can't just say well we're gonna use tear and then may blow back on you like you wish you had never had it happened blow back on you and even if you could right now we have a lot of constraints I understand that but even if you could you still want to be very careful with that stuff it can blow back on you and not only that you have a different world today remember in the world we talked about back here they could run an operation against some goddamn Empire some group and no one else had ever heard about it because they didn't have the communication so by the time they heard about it it was already over plus they could not control it much better today with all the TV and mass communication you do something like that you're in trouble remember the world's changed we've got to change whether we like it or not if you just say I'm going to do the same you're still operating in an early century and you're going to get cleaned you're gonna get taken out yeah you're G to get taken out exactly yeah it it started to even change back when the printing press had pamphleteering you know like millions of pamphlets were coming out just prior to the US re uh American Revolution uh there was a pamphlets that came out about the East India Company and what they did during the famine uh and didn't Supply people with food they and for the taxes and and extracted taxes out of people who are undergoing famine that kill was killing Millions right and that information got back and was put into pamphlets and that the story was that the East India Company or something like that would come to the United States and start running the Empire because the British Empire was built by companies you know it wasn't like military conquest is that that company would come to the United States and start running the colonies like a corporate Enterprise and that put the fear of God into everybody nobody wanted that that was like that's why you know the Boston Tea Party happened they took East India Company tea and dusted into the into the bay so uh you know that kind of stuff blows back and it was just starting then and people overlooked it but now it's like you have to pay attention to the environment you're in you can't like assume it's some kind of fantasy environment you have to know where you're operating hey taking a look at Twitter and X over the last couple years and where we are today so Elon Musk we talked about him on the last time we uh we had you on the show uh we talked about Elon Musk a little bit but yeah sure right right here I'm looking at and Lawfare and the Manipulation of Information I'll share this on the screen that is uh Elon Musk fully supporting um president Trump uh and we have and for me we have a flow of information information's flowing more today than it was three four years ago at the height of Co so let me make sure you got this right that's not the one I want yeah they're going to go after him for this yeah yeah oh there we go the law fair that they've been conducting laware against them going after his small companies or big and his big companies for a while but U right to openly to car support for Trump and now um is going to make him a Target I you know earlier case of election Deni was in the 2016 election claiming that the social networks are actually were the cause of the um election not going their way that it was rigged um and that we spent years trying to you know they put pressure on the networks to control their messaging and and censor it heavily going into elections and most most of them complied Facebook and all those others are all on board um and we've seen kind of laware being waged against companies and individuals who you know have that kind of networking power um yeah in the past and and uh now that El's like declared it's going to be intense yeah yeah law fair is a good one to talk about that was that was one of the uh tenants of unrestricted Warfare by the Chinese officers right they talked about law fair and uh oinga quotes that in the Boyd book science strategy and War he talks about law fair so you know when you think of these uh mashed Naval showdowns in the South China Sea I don't think you have to think that hard I think you need to think about law fair drugs um Tik Tok you know media influence that kind of thing that that's more of a threat yeah I mean uh Chinese are definitely playing across the entire board and and they're participating in in just about everything well it seems they read sunu and paid attention right no I mean you have to you have to use all everything at your disposal to gain an advantage um and um you know not be directly confrontational to the extent that you can yeah but then you know do as best you can underneath the covers I you know 20 years of being hammered by Chinese hackers and stuff if you talk to anyone like my brother used to run the all day hardware for the NSA he's like they had constant constant attacks I mean across everything was was just intense and um the same true with the kind of all these social aspects I mean you remember the Chinese citizen that went around tagging um uh Jewish temples right during that yeah now they found found a guy that went from uh place to place uh just after the the conflict started um and he was going from state to state putting Nazi symbols and stuff on and he was a Chinese National that was just visiting yeah right right U and that uh that kind of stuff is like happening underneath the covers and no one's really seems to be connecting any of the dots or the people that are they're like aren't AR kind of conveying it what's also telling is that you know an assassination attempt is made on a former president and then at the same time people are still texting and talking about Richard Simmons passing away and Shannon DH passing away you know like that right people people right automatically shift to like hey what time is the game tonight oh yeah that's that's great reminds me of when you know we learned that uh you know basically you're being recorded and surveilled via your own devices I remember that coming out in the news with people saying that's what what time is Monday Night Football tonight who are they playing you know like people just don't even but it's also it's also that in network tribalism if if things don't fit your pattern they don't exist right that's it and that they they're they're memory hold or they're forgotten um and if even if people later prove a lot of your things what you said is is incorrect they said well it could have happened or could you know you know could have been that way or should have been that way this is just an anomaly um but yeah no people won't pay attention that Things Fall outside their pattern yeah that's a surprise confirmation bias say do punch has these good visuals um that like my favorite one is the Opening Up Information Flow within Organizations chessboard you know it's like well which which ones are are these the same color the different color and you look at it and you want to believe that they're different because you know the patterns of a chessboard and you know the patterns of a silhouette you know the patterns of a shadow and in reality they're the same color and it never it never Dawns on you but but those sorts of things that that's happening to us constantly all the time you're walking right past these things it's right in plain sight um which which by the way I think that a lot of these things are are hiding in plain sight um I I don't remember who it was and John maybe you know it might have been on I don't think it was on a global rulers report was something was saying about how in the old days of the Cold War classified information was vaulted down and buried and no one would ever see the light of day but now everything's out in plain sight nobody knows like nobody nobody cares because they they can't match the patterns I saw that somewhere and I can't think of where I saw that but oh I've often found that the open source information is usually a lot better than yeah yeah and also there's always that kind of funny thing inside the big organizations particularly the big secret organizations that they found that they siloed information created like these all these errors in decision-making same thing in finance if you Silo people into certain things that that they would be able to take advantage of opportunities and Miss threats and so when you opened it up and made it made their employe is more powerful giving him more access to information you get people that compromise it and betray so you have the Rogue Trader or you have the rogue agent or the Roga analyst U so you're kind of caught in this do I lock things up or do I open things up to make my my employees better that's what um it's funny you mention a rogue Trader and I mean I just my most recent St substack was on decentralized knowledge it was talking about friederick Hayek's uh the use of knowledge in society which every leader and every company should read and this is something that Ponch and I talk about all the time information has to be flowing it has to be free flowing and um so often to your point John things are siloed and people would say well we didn't think you need to know that well we we you know how would you know when you centrally plan all those things pass it and dispersed exactly well you can give people like um people miss a big part of what you need to do in order to open information like that whether it's in a big agency like a the NSA or CIA opening up information silos so they could make make better decisions uh or whether it's in a bank or or brokerage firm or trading house that uh you know opens up leverage of Leverage to different Traders um is that they give them more access May more power um they give them you know motivation but they don't really focus on their orientation enough that you got to do things that that what what you're effectively doing is giving these people Mission orders Without Really checking to see if they could have they have the orientation capable of actually executing an a mission order that you have to know what the objective of you know what the commander's intent was or the or the organization's intent was and um that has to that knowledge has to be stronger than their motivation to improve their own well or whatever external motivations that they have so um yeah finding that or training that you know person for uh Mission orders is tough um and uh like to see more of it you know that kind of training because we're trying to open this information up and have that go um clearly wasn't the case with the Secret Service in this this recent thing everyone must have been just you know following their rote process um and I don't even know if they actually you know truly funded it there's lots of complaints about the the size of the detail and the amount of resources they don't even doesn't even appear that they have any um protection for Robert Kennedy not Robert is it Robert yeah RFK RFK Jr and matter of fact he his most recent commercial I saw it on Instagram it shows his uncle and his father you know coming to abrupt ends um after after pursuing their agendas like you know Bobby Kennedy Jr is putting that out right now so um boy yeah he he his explanation for how his that father died was nuts did you hear that no no no no so the the guy that was arrested or you know were shooting him um he went through the details and said that guy never after the first shot never was had the gun in the right direction in order that he was cinched down by the Secret Service and not allowed to even point at his dad and that he was actually killed by The Man Behind him who was a people person that was known to hate his father he was recently hired into the police force and assigned to the detail yeah and he was right behind him and that it shot him Point Blank and that he had muzzle FL you know burns on his neck where he was shot from behind and that you know that was never investigated or anything it was all buried um and that's like you amazing charge to make I mean you know he's he's probably the one of the few people that actually had the motivation to actually dig into this stuff but makes you think about you know there's lots of things that could be buried and hidden and and and um we're never going to fully realize exactly what happened as a as a group what's interesting about RFK junr you know he's been turned on I believe I mean you know as I remember his career the first time I really became aware of him was back in the fleet right where he was trying to shut down vus down uh the for environmental reasons the the Gunnery Range down Puerto Rico yeah and you learn about him and you think oh well this is just like a you know some sort of left-wing environmentalist and he was I always thought that he was kind of a hero of the left and then until he wasn't right and it it reminds me also too if Trump I mean the first time I remember coming into contact with Trump is at age 10 and getting the art of the deal for From Usefulness to Uselessness Christmas and and reading that book and you know Donald Trump was always kind of like this celebrity businessman um that that was you know real estate tycoon in New York Etc but always very I don't know say useful until he wasn't you know until all of a sudden you know he goes from being this sort of socially liberal Adept businessman to becoming you know uh did you see the trigger you saw the trigger event for why you're ran right uh Obama was it yeah that Obama speech where running as a joke yeah that he was you know that it's a joke you know there' be just belittle the guy and he was in the audience yeah and after that that kind of that's kind of like one of those like high school humiliation level events and for his ego that was just that's it it set in motion the whole thing afterwards so staying on topic you know he let's talk about like in election 2016 I think it was James phow that wrote National Defense in the Atlantic he talked about how Trump had really mastered the udal loop you know and that he had understood orientation Trump's Mastery of the OODA Loop and that he systematically took out all of his Republican opponents one by one by one uh by doing things that they they couldn't answer that they didn't have any answer for um and if I recall if you I mean if you Google down Trump udal Loop there was a couple of articles about that and saying that hey look I'm not voting for the guy but you know he's a really Master at this you know this this thought process and I want to build on that Mark but changing changing the system from within can't be done right so having an outsider try to change it is what I thought was happening with Trump in 2016 right but but you know now we have the possibility of corporate controlled media uh you have the military-industrial complex you have all these things that are forcing uh yeah you know let's let's just say go in a kitchen you turn on the lights and all the rodents start running around and they want the lights turned off that's what happened in 2016 is somebody went into DC turned on the lights it showed everybody where all the rodents were and the rodents turned on them so uh this is The Influence of Corporate-Controlled Media and the Military-Industrial Complex kind of where where I I look at it from that that lens yeah I mean Trump trump had an interesting thing he he was nominally you know focused on nationalism and National progress and that was so in congruous with everything else that we've seen all this kind of globalist perspective and d d based on those three things I was talking about earlier to have somebody come in and kind of even if you got all the facts wrong or whatever the rationale even arguments were competive at least the orientation was pointed nomally in the right direction it infuriated and and confounded everybody I mean but it resonated at a deep level with with so many people that nationalist organ orientation was like at least he's pointed in the right direction it's like that's what people responded to that's what people are saying internal um and but what what we also found in is for years as president is that the system is way too powerful that that it prevented him from doing anything I mean the bureaucracy surrounded him like a cocoon and prevented almost every initiative any attempt to control uh or you know change in Direction was was muted or redirected or or delayed um there also an argument that there's not been a real president for a long time that you know the system is way too powerful and too complex um and that there's you know millions of people and they have these orientations and agendas The Power of the System in Preventing Change that are uh going to will win out in the end regardless of what the president thinks or what what the new Administration thinks we we talked about Hayek earlier in his paper uh the use of knowledge in society that again if you're following Boyd everybody should read this paper it's not very long but the other haek thing that just popped to mind as you were talking was this book The Road to surum which is which is widely read and uh was widely understood by people that were you know very aware of the pattern of control and central control and Central planning you know and what it does to you know uh individuals don't we feel like I mean it's almost kind of like with this Ai and the way things are headed and networks that we're headed towards a similar road to surum I mean you know with the data mining and the data strip mining and inability to for everybody to see that all of this data they're putting out not just a name and address and that kind of crap I mean I'm talking about every bit of data about their their voice and their modulation the way they put together sentences the way they uh everything they do everything they write everything they think everything they say is being captured and turned into AIS and these AIS will compete for your jobs and they will compete for your attention and they will are going to be the most valuable things The Potential Road to Serfdom in the Digital Age ever created and they have no stake even though they contribute everything to making them and that if that doesn't like Define what surum is I mean surum is you work all day at the field and it's not your field it's not your food that you're producing but you're allowed to keep some to eat and you have no ambition you have no reason to actually work extra hours than the ones necessary to actually produce um a minimum the minimum required um and that um it took a you know you remember Max vor's Twist on this is that the reason why how we got out of surf out of that surf mindset of never working extra hours never accumulating never creating wealth is that we um kind of took a Protestant ethic you know trying to improve things improve your life improve yourself um and combine that with private ownership and you had the private farms and people accumulated and that the US served as kind of the model for all of this is that people came in in New England and the like you know and and Mid-Atlantic had all these private farms and they accumulated wealth and that wealth then created a market for manufacturing when it started emerging and then that zoomed zoomed here faster than everything everything came out of that that change in in moving from surom to post surf too right literacy becoming more pervasive oh yeah but I mean the idea that you know you have millions of households with uh wealth changed the The Importance of Independent Thought and Critical Thinking whole focus of of of innovation Innovation used to be oh let's go build toys for wealthy people or weapons you know or or they didn't want uh you know vacuum cleaners they had people for that they don't want dishwashers they had people for that they didn't want uh any most things were covered by cheap labor and surfs and but um you give it to a bunch of people individuals who are working on a farm or you know who' have accumulated wealth they want all those things they're the mass Market they're the early adopters they're the ones that move technology forward and um we're in the same kind of situation now creation yeah but with data we're in the same problem now is you know is that do we want to be people who are constantly training AIS to replace us and we have to learn something more to teach AIS and everyone that's your job is just to you know watch for errors and AIS and help them correct it and so they don't need you anymore you have to go to the next one or you know you have to learn something new in order to teach AIS or do you want to be and you don't own anything and these things are getting all you know getting all creating all the value going to a very small group of people or do you want to um own a piece of that and move forward and have choice and and um have some input into how AIS are are built and you know and and how they're used um and robots and all that other stuff anyway it's way off track but it's that you know shifting and you know we're on a road to surfing right now in you kind of digital realm yeah it seems like every every attempt to build Utopia on Earth doesn't always end well yeah it never ends well right yeah never ends well well John I'm curious John can you kind of project Out 3 6 9 12 24 months uh what What's Next what you know after the events from yesterday and where we are at the moment what what's next what what's this look like in your mind it gets wild uh you know it anything that involves the decisions of individuals it's hard to actually you know do any projection you can basic Trends um and get a feel for how those Trends are evolving and I I do think an intuitive sense is really the only way to actually when you take into account a ton of information and kind of make projections based on that it's the only way to actually see any kind of patterns emerging is that um we're still on a a path towards a a global conflict with China and Russia and all their allies in the Middle East basically the whole Middle East except for Israel um and that um I don't see anything abating that other than maybe a trump presidency Trump could potentially swerve away from that um that makes them dangerous to everybody who has thinks that that's that's important to continue on that track yeah my worry still is that World War III kind of global embargo not a physical fight is that China gets Taiwan gets all the chips they're all our manufacturing um all our high-tech and everything else crumps and nobody else in the world follows us into that embargo yeah for invading Taiwan and we we die I mean we basically go through a implosion so John we we've had Wars that we could watch on television for you know we we all fought Wars for the last 20 plus years right it was remote for average Americans sitting in their $500,000 home that they bought for $200,000 a few years ago what does this mean to them what what does this what does war look like to them uh in the future what's actually going to happen to their day-to-day life with a World War through with China well China has nukes Russia has nukes we're not going to fight Chinese troops as much as we say we're gonna there is a potential that we would stumble into it slouch into it if we started using drones uh there's a there's a kind of a weird myopia when it comes to drones is that we think by uh we've kind of convinced ourselves that using Dron drones to fight their drones or actually destroy their troops doesn't really count as a confrontation unless we use human bodies on our side our our troops our our planes our our equipment manned equipment attacking them is one thing using drones to do it is is a thing another thing entirely that could be a slipp res slope to kind of a nuclear or that's what we're seeing right now and that's what I'm seeing anyway is just going back to generation 2 Warfare right with drones attrition Warfare and I'm like those are still humans on the other side that are being killed yeah right yeah no no it but somehow it looks like Challenges of Trusting Government Data a video game when you use the drones it doesn't count we see this we see this in Ukraine we in Russia um and I think the threats recently made against uh China by saying we're going to put our Advanced drones in into the Taiwan straight is the same kind of thing um no it it if if uh if the restraint wins wins out if they do take Taiwan and the like and we end up in a World War II where you will end up with two trading blocks and that already most of the European capitals have said they they won't consider an invasion of Taiwan as a reason to uh disconnect from China they're too dependent they know it and that the US would be left alone and what that means is that everything gets expensive everything goes into shortage um all our high-tech Goes to Hell because all the chips 80% of the chips and all the all the AI chips are all then in China's hands um and that um our economy is is totally trashed and people who didn't think that we we were in a war or even believe that the war should be necessary or that time on is important are going to immediately go into massive descent um particularly if it's like a Dem ratic Administration The Descent will be on the right if it's a republican one at the time it's going to be descent on the left but descent will be widespread and growing and pretty much make up everybody in the population and um they'll Force an end to the war and um that will be the end of any kind of American aspirations around the world if it continues and we decide to fight everything is going to be contested so all trade of will be contested um what China will do and they can you know we already see this in the in the kind of drone volumes air sea Inland is that they will produce Millions per year or Millions per month I mean even even Russia now can produce 300,000 a month is that they'll produce Millions per month and we could produce what 10,000 a month at most maybe 5,000 um less so after we get Shor up Tri chips and advanced manufacturing from China um and they'll send those out to allies you know like the hoodies and um even Cuba or Venezuela and arm them up and say okay exert some control put some pressure on the United States and then we end up with dozens of places that we actually have to you know fight with in order to maintain some level of connectivity to the rest of the world physical connectivity and that that turns into a nightmare I I just don't see how the us could take out all of those plus yeah you know operate even when all all our they all lead back to some kind of Chinese manufacturing capability I mean all theuns we use in all our Weapons Systems are are are Chinese based so U no it will end badly for the US and um is there any threat internal threat of drones being used on civilians here in the US um potentially I mean okay we you know I mean that's that's a that's a not so much on civilians I would think Decentralization and the Focus on Nationalism it would probably be focused on systems and system disruption and so you to accelerate the US collapse they would uh you know we had an open border we continue to have an open border um that uh and the Chinese made you know big efforts to get people inside wouldn't take more than a a couple um trailer Cars full of drones that have been repurposed at least in the software uh and those folks dozen maybe around major major cities could unleash a barrage that wipes out critical electrical infrastructure and other infrastructure could be wiped out that's Irreplaceable that they can't be rep low cost too right it's very low cost oh yeah no yeah for for for a couple thousand bucks uh you could be wiping out something that's worth 2 300,000 if you could buy or 2 three million depending on the size of the the uh equipment that you're out um at the substations and and the like and um you wouldn't be able to get replacements for it particularly with an embargo it would last for years I mean it would be basically the electrical system in the US could go out and um you wrote in Brave new war about how just a couple of thousand dollars of explosives they shut down you know 650 million in Iraqi oil profits like instantly just right off yeah you this could be like you know one of those big sustained maybe uh one week or two week level Campaign and then it sets in motion the kind of um chaos that then you know you get partial disruptions everywhere uh you know long running blackouts that go for months and then you start to get local groups involved and they start to you know Supply Power and then they're working against the the resumption of power and they start to tax it and people start to you know groups just emerge out of their Woodwork and start to exert control um because there's you know so much chaos and you create this kind of cycle of of you know more disruption creates more opportunity and and those people tend to get very very wealthy there's lots of wealth in a failed state in a broken State um and they could potentially put us into that with disruption plus an embargo car said in uh George Carlin said in his HBO special life is worth losing you want to see things get crazy United States turn the power off if you shut the power off everything would just go abject chaos oh yeah yeah and um especially in the middle of the summer or in the middle of the winter I mean just it would beec you know because so many people now are relying on like heat pumps like and they switch this over to Electric electrical completely um they don't have any alternatives um yeah it's going to it bad news so I don't think it would hit individuals or like hit outout um at least not at this stage I mean though you know in terms of internal suppression I mean if if you put put it Forward about 10 years and we start to get to you know micro drones with small explosives and you get the you know um lots of intelligence onboard intelligence ability to go through whether crawling or or flying or combination of the two um good sensors good decis making capability um you could put make millions of those and suppress a city yeah okay and control a city and and make it impossible for anyone to do you know like fly those suckers in make some examples nobody's G to say or do anything that would actually even impede uh the person controlling it so John this this orientation that you're talking about and I actually share with you uh is built upon years of experience research understanding history right not not everybody's going to have this anticipatory anticipatory thinking capability to think like this I kind of feel like you do from your your your background I do from my background and working in a and space Operation Center from a Navy perspective uh where active duty I was it was my job to freaking figure out how to terrorize people fulltime right right I mean that was my job was to sit there and go how can I with our enemies with our weapon systems that we can't talk about um you know a cyber world and then how do we how do we affect change or or get what we want out of that now we come back here and we're civilians and you know we're enjoying our freedom and we're looking at this saying this is what I see happening uh all around us and not every like I said not everybody shares this view a lot of folks are so worried about uh which pronoun they want to be uh you know to use today right and and that that doesn't bother me I'm like yeah you can you can color your hair you can pierce your nose you can do all that crazy but what matters to me is survival right right this is this is what I think about during the day and and what I really want is I want people to leave me alone I just want to I just want to live man I just want to have a a high quality life I want uh I don't want to have to worry about uh you know um gas going through seven eight dollars a gallon I don't want to have to live through hyperinflation I know that printing money is dangerous right I know that uh um you know when somebody says you got to pay your fair share I'm like well let's go get a pizza together and we'll talk about paying our fair share right you know I mean right explain how that works to me so again John my my my point on this is our orientation is built upon years of previous experience a lot of knowledge a lot of reading including John Boyd's work you've written books on this we're not coming from this as a persp from a perspective of of uh you know let's say this to be controversial we're saying this to warn folks uh and now thoughts Mark I mean what are you what are you thinking about now yeah I find that the more that I I I dig into boy and um mclan and hyek and others the the the less the more aware I become of how our orientations are synthetically shaped into Hive Minds you know informed in the hive minds and you have to be very very careful because the medium is the message we are on the road to Surf them and as Boyd would say we have to we we cannot determine the nature of character of a system within itself right and the more that we attempt to do so um uh we create more confusion disorder and it's it's not unlike just any conversation you have with anybody whether we're Consulting in a company or anywhere else it's like just read destruction and creation and try to understand what's actually happening and then I find that you become more aware of how you've been put into boxes or you're acting um uh involuntarily because you think that you're part of this perceived tribe or or that that kind of thing um and I find that the more I get into it and the more you start to look at Universal realities which I think Boyd Hayek mclu and I think that they were chasing after those things and trying to observe and explore less to tell us exactly what's going on because they were always revising their models um you the less inclined I am to be part of any group you know because yeah it's and it's again I I I kind of touched on Carlin earlier but boy if you go back and you look at carin's stuff he was saying that being a part of any group is not always a good a good thing because you start to not think anymore and once you lose that capacity to critically think you lose that that capacity uh for free and independent action as Boyd would say and the medium does become the message as MCL would say and then you're on the road to the Sur of messak would say it is interesting but it's it's hard to refute it's it's harder to it's it's harder to know that you're actually in a group or not know like fish knows in water right right so you go out to the network and um you just go with a flow you know it's like the residents you know like all these people are thinking this one thing and the people just kind of go in that direction they're not officially part of a group there's no membership card it's just like oh the Network's moving in this Direction Let's like like a school of fish yeah I I'll add to that I'll add to that or you know I'll amplify that and people will amplify me if I amplify that um now yeah it's a and in truly independent thought trying to you know Do It Strike off on your own is not rewarded right so if you come in and say something that's like objectively true insightful but it doesn't uh fit into I you know any of the dominant tribal flows it won't get any traction it will it will it from hard one experience forever this is like it happens all the time and it could be really great Insight but it just doesn't resonate with the tribal uh messaging and and thinking and the pattern matching um so you're part you know you in order to have any kind of prominence and any kind of spin or any kind of U amplification you have to and you know do stuff that actually fits in somewhat yeah that's what Boyd called incestuous amplification yeah yeah yeah there there's feedback lips here yeah I mean feedbacks that are more deliberate and more you know uh visible than you would see and they're all Dynamic and it doesn't it changes day by day but uh yeah you're everyone's part of a group La last week I was uh on a working Ranch in Colorado doing two days of work uh there you know quote unquote vacation right and it was amazing with cattle how once one does something and you get that second one to do it the rest of them the rest of them follow without without hesitation without question and it is interesting to see that pattern because it seems to me like this is sort of the the network tribalism pattern you know one two three start doing it and you want that Affinity um you know you want that belonging to the group you want that belonging to the tribe you want that identity and the next thing you know you're being led to your Slaughter and you didn't have any idea we didn't Slaughter any cattles we were just doing uh branding and vaccinations of cattle but um but it was it is interesting though that you just you lose you surrender that sort of autonomy when you uh and your ability to challenge all assumptions as Boyd would say you know when you start to group up together and you you don't critically think anymore yeah um I mean think about in like the case of Boyd how many people would come up to him and say Hey you were right but you know I just I I really wanted to get that star you know I really wanted to get that second star yeah you know yeah well is the thinking of of a truly independent individual even valuable now I mean truly I mean it somebody that can can seed a change in you know with some insight in a in a travel group or introduce some ideas that are eventually picked up by a tribal group um those people are valuable most people inside these tribal groups aren't you know you know in a negative way it' be like an NPC kind of they're they're relinquishing their independent thought for some kind of security and and and tribal identity and or you know not even official tribal identity just I'm just happy other people agree with me and reinforce me and Pat me on the back a little um and it's comforting it's comforting in a world where you you know which doesn't make a lot of sense in many instances you know things are moving too fast things are crazy things that you never thought would happen 20 30 years ago happen routinely now yeah yeah I mean who would have thought that the battery would have been gone I mean the Border would have been gone that no one enforced it they would take they would actually bulldoze down the barriers right and let you take down the fences and not enforce anything but for all intents and purposes not enforce anything with millions of people through and never even touching a border agent or whatever I mean that's impossible to think that was impossible what why I mean why what advantages anybody have in in doing that I mean this goes back to that uh part of dampen they said in motion procedures that in in in reaction to Trump so much of the stuff that's gone off the rails is reaction to Trump right so uh you know a lot of the excessive lawfare used that's being used against them you know damages the judici damage is the legal process because there it's so blatantly like way over the top I mean manufacturing law coming up with new interpretations novel interpretations usually you know sus makes everything associated with that suspect and then um the same thing with the Border in the Border reaction they they got rid of the facilities they had in Mexico and and and rolled it the procedures back to an area that was not well thought out you know to the point where it became um we're not going to have anything that's inhumane or any kind border any kind of fencing on the on the that would force people to potentially drown and maybe loss of One Life or whatever um and so that started the ball rolling and then um with increasing inflation and and decreasing at least at the the manual or semi um semiskilled level decreasing amount of people that would work for reasonable wages and work diligently there was huge pressure inside industry and all of those Light Industry and and in other areas um to get more workers yeah yeah and they wanted illegal workers because they thought they would be more malleable and then it went out of control because when those when they kind of allowed that um and there's also kind of a thinking on on you know here are voters that are potentially future Democratic voters um particularly given the Republican stance on immigration so um comine all that and then things out of control because then you start running into the homeless La that were put in place so they eliminated homeless by trying to get them into facilities and made it mandatory you offer the facility but the reason that most of the homeless aren't in the facility is because they won't stop taking the drugs which are banned in the facility or stop drinking so that's why they're homeless because not that the pH facility doesn't exist it's that they won't accept the conditions for for getting in there and then all these illegals turn up and then they have to house them yeah and then they run out of hous and then they run into you know multi-billion dollar deficits in New York City and other places and then it just spun out of control it just it it just turned um it's Catch 22 right and in the systems driving the behaviors you have these unintended consequences uh it's complex right it's not one thing it's many things yeah yeah yeah no it yeah and it it's all based on these old you know like um you know rotten assumptions I to think of like that a lot of times where uh Empires fall and and big organizations fall apart is that they were previously successful and they built you know based on good solid assumptions some of those are changed just slightly tweaked over the course of the years and eventually um nobody was asking about those assumptions no one was questioning them and um uh they ended up becoming rotten and uh like oh we should be in Afghanistan building even though it was apparent after the first six or seven years that it was not working and it wasn't going to ever work I mean I got in 2009 in front of the armed services committee I said what should we do and they said I should we should come up with an excuse to leave Afghanistan and leave now yeah right that was in 2009 and that was you know trillion dollars later trillion and a half dollars later uh you know we're we're evacuating on the on the uh from a besieged airport so uh now it's a assumptions aren't question and they go rotten and um now we have them everywhere these are kind of rotten cores that are that everything is built on and no one will back they can't even be talked about yeah you couldn't talk about leaving Afghanistan aside of the military truly yeah you couldn't and and you couldn't you couldn't talk about so many things that in the Press now because they wouldn't it wouldn't even be a conversation that they would you know maintain or hold they would just dismiss you as a prank and that's another you know a lot of that had to do with the globalization Focus versus the Nationalist focus and that's why Trump was like you know he would actually ask those questions like why aren't we doing this and people were like who you're not even allowed to you're not allowed to ask that question so um well that that that brings to another thing too A lot of the people that bring up the the challenging assumptions are like like a boy or a MCL or a hyek I mean they're so radically opposed um they're so they're all cult figures though too right well that's yeah that's none of those guys uh ER end mainstream you know they're always cult and always on the Ed you know Edge but they were the truth tellers they were the truth Seekers yeah and they changed the you know dynamic and and in many ways but they're not going to ever be recognized as the big know Central figures that everyone so so here's a question a lot of times in these political upheavals you know there's a revolution and then there's a reaction I mean it's kind of hard to tell who's the Revolution and and who's the reaction because I feel like the the so the ones who call themselves revolutionaries are actually pretty heavily backed by you know the the corporate uh Behemoth so much um that they're more of the reaction if if if it just kind of seems flipped what do you you know a lot of times you know the the left seems to be the Revolution and the right seems to be the reaction but it kind of seems to be the other way around right now oh the the right is is more of a um revolutionary kind of force here the force for change yeah so it's all kind of flipped around and the left is actually the mainstream of establishment yeah no but it's also a complex multi-polar hyperpolar kind of world there's so many different players and so many different motivations you know you have all these you know corporations involved and they have different kind of agenda and and and seek different outcomes you have nation states and deteriorating nation states and they have different you know agendas and how you know desires and you have these Network tribalism what yeah oh no we thought we thought we were losing you that they were censoring us well yeah it's uh but um now it's it it it's it's hard to make sense of anything now and um John I got a couple uh last I know it's Sunday morning and thanks for joining us uh this is a great conversation uh couple other questions from you uh one you don't have to get to this now but what's the way out of this um you know and just this being the context we're in we can come up to that later uh but one of the things I want to know from you is we're getting data from the our government uh economic data um and it changes you know it gets revised back to something and you know hey it wasn't 350,000 job it was five you whatever um I'm exaggerating there why what's the purpose of lying to us what's why are we being lied to or are we being lied to sure of course we are I mean but it's like people who thinking thinking that they're actually uh doing us a favor I mean almost every time that we talk about misinformation nowadays it's always about interpretation of existing facts and and granted um and there was also this kind of a looseness in terms of how people interpreted assumptions so an assumption error leads to wrong reporting or number being reported or an overoptimistic assumption leads to a wrong number being reported and when the the actual data comes in that that proves that overestimation is wrong and corrects it back they won't apologize but they you know because the the value was already achieved um so we in general though it's getting harder and harder to trust anything coming out of the the government and which is which is a shame particularly since it's engaged in such aggressive you know lawfare and and self- protection um all abuses all unnecessary um and it it's it's easy to come up with a lot of little short-term stuff things that we could do but I think the things that we have to focus on would be um keeping power as far away from the center as we possibly can okay and and you know trying to decentralize it to the extent we can so we can prevent some of the worst abuses coming coming out of this uh environment the worst abuse I think would be to be create a kind of network of authoritarian State like we see in China and networks tend to concentrate power especially with AI and everything else it's uh that's my biggest fear as we end up in that kind of slouching our way into that um surf them yeah yeah we and and that uh any kind of dissent is considered misinformation um and that um and suppressed and punished which then you know at a very very deep level if you can get into every single conversation and is everywhere it controls your perception of reality as we get AR to do anything we're going to have to have AR um that's a very dire and horrible future um and then you know at a nominal level you know some increasing focus on nationalism kind of the Washington's George Washington's approach um not nationalism and aggressive nationalism we're taking over things this is like focus on um America and no knowing what America actually is all about and about you know the prosperity Mutual prosperity and uh you know progress and and and you know Pursuit of Happiness on a on a mass scale and making that possible by untangling ourselves from all these uh alliances and and and dependencies and and uh treating the world as a as a potential trading partner and a potential you know partner for doing things together um rather than you know control games and and and uh trying to manage the world and and creating you know kader with trying to create conflicts in order to keep them Royal in order to you know manage them more effectively right it's like [Music] um and I'm winding some of the defense expenditure that we have that would focus on you know increasing our economic output um and uh Washington said that you know that's the you know during times of Peace we should be you know balancing the budget by taking advantage of that that that that that opportunity um but you know doing that going to be tough there's so many people with different identities or like different loyalties that are pulling us in directions that towards war and towards expenditures and towards policies uh that are detrimental to the future of the United States and and they have um an outside level of control over our society and I'm talking all the identities like that that are out there all the different loyalties that are competitive with our national identity I do think that Washington thing you know focus on on think citizenship in the United States has value you should be loyal to that it has benefits those and then we could make those benefits more tangible more visible um that if you do X for and you know for enough time you're going to get why and then you know you could like a you're a participant if the GDP goes up by 100% in in in a decade your benefit for being in this country should be 100% better if you contributed in you could and it and it shouldn't be like some loose connection right I mean we broke that connection years ago in the 70s when we saw median income Stag stagnated and we you know doubled the quadruple the GDP in that same period of time since then so um making it more tangible making more more real that citizenship is as as value membership and in a network where there's so many different choices that's could be an attractor create an opt-in situation that you're opting into participation would be a good thing but translating all this into policy and you know data ownership is one of the ways to do it you know is tough um it's a long discussion and I don't see a lot of initiatives to try to do it so hey there we are John we're uh we're glad to have you as uh you know intellectual uh Partners on this as we continue to develop and and build on the theories of the of the you know the Giants of the whose shoulders we stand on Bo mclan and others and um we really appreciate your time on a Sunday on such short notice to uh hopefully get more people to start challenging assumptions and and and uh critically think and understand uh the udalo sketch right great guys yeah thanks for having me on fun thank you thanks I'm just gonna pause here good hey