Resisting the Taliban and Preparing for the Future of Afghanistan

e e good morning welcome everyone to Hudson Institute Welcome to our in-person viewers and our online viewership as well as we uh meet here to discuss today's event which is resisting the Taliban and preparing for the future of Afghanistan this month August of 2024 marks a number of grim mile three-year Milestones after all after US troops all but departed Afghanistan by Late July 2021 on August 6 2021 the Taliban captured surange the capital of narus province in Southwestern Afghanistan this marked the first time in almost two decades that the Taliban was able to capture and hold a provincial capital soon after government controlled provincial capital started falling like dominoes which led us to our next Grim Milestone on August 15th when the Taliban finally captured cabul now this week is marks a particularly Grand Milestone when on August 26th of 2021 we had the Abate attacks which resulted in 18 183 people being killed 170 Afghan civilians and 13 US service personnel and by August 30th the last US soldier departed Afghanistan for Good by September 11th of 2021 on the 20th anniversary of the 911 attacks the Taliban actually controlled more of Afghanistan than it did on September 11th 2001 but there is another 30-year anniversary this August that we can mark that gives Afghans a glimmer of hope that is August 17th this was the date that akmed massud the son of the late historic Freedom Fighter akmed sha massud established the national resistance front of Afghanistan based in the mountains of pansier and active in more than a dozen Afghan provinces the NRF is right now the only significant serious major credible non-extremist armed opposition against the Taliban he is here to speak to us today of course virtually and we're honored that he has taken time out of his schedule to do so Mr massud earned degrees from esteemed institutions in the United Kingdom and he's also a graduate of the the Royal Military Academy San Hurst although he did not engage significantly in Afghan politics until 2018 he has dedicated years to developing and expanding Grassroots efforts especially in pansare and his efforts then are now bearing fruit today it is a great honor for Hudson Institute to welcome such a courageous Freedom Fighter to address us now after Mr massud gives us an update we will then have a panel discussion moderated by my friend and colleague Jeremy Hunt on and we'll discuss the current situation in Afghanistan what the NRF is doing and what the US needs to do to support them but first please join me in welcoming Mr massud thank you very much uh my dear friends um ladies and gentlemen it's a great honor to be a part of this important event today I want to begin by expressing my deep appreciation to the Hudson Institute for bringing the critical issue of Afghanistan back to the spotlight especially during a time when the world is grappling with so many pressing challenges your unwavering dedication to the subject over the past few years is truly commendable I would also like to extend my congratulation to the Hudson Institute on the lunch of the insightful paper authored by our good friend Luke coffee this paper which we have all eagerly awaited should serve as a powerful Catalyst for further discussion about the future of Afghanistan personally I am eager to delve into the recommendation that emerged from this work and I sincerely hope that policy makers in Washington will take these lessons to Heart while the paper provides thorough analysis I would like to take a moment to share my thoughts on five critical issue that affects the people of Afghanistan today first the complex challenges facing Afghanistan's people the people of Afghanistan are currently enduring a multitude of great political Economic Security and Social Challenges all of which are the result of human actions exhausted by years of conflict the population is increasingly desperate for Liberation from the taliban's oppressive regime sadly the Taliban have exploited the fatigue that the world has regarding Afghanistan continuing to impose Draconian policies that show daily life particularly of women of Afghanistan over the past three years years their illegitimate rule has Shattered by any illusion of a more pragmatic or moderate Taliban Taliban 2.0 or good Taliban unfortunately past three years approved and showed does not exist revealing a group as dogmatic and repressive as ever their actions indicates a willingness to collectively punish the entire population of Afghanistan leading the country toward the brink of further Bloodshed and a safe heaven for the terrorism second the escalating the of terrorism since August 2021 Afganistan has transformed into a heaven for regional and international terrorist terrorist and terrorism over 21 terrorist Network are operating within the country with thousands of foreign terrorist Fighters receiving protection and assistance from the Taliban you have all seen The Surge and the terrorist activities across the region especially in the neighboring countries of afghanista and the reason being is the Taliban being a role model for all those terrorist groups the recent tragic events that happened in Pakistan many Innocents who lost their lives and the of terrorism is a proof just in the past few days that the continuation of the current situation Afghanistan will further destabilize the region and our neighbors and Afghanistan uh and the world the recent Terror attacks and the recent events truly have connections to the Afghanistan alqaeda has grown stronger than it was in 2001 and ISP continues to expand with each passing day the Taliban are also establishing radical Jihadi madrasas in all of Afghanistan 400 districts with these thousands of Jihadi madasa it will be a pip a pipeline for hundreds and thousands of Youth into the extremist of ideologies we the national resistance front are the only Force so far continuing the global war on terror within Afghanistan it is imperative that we work together to prevent further attacks that could result in global catastrophe however even if you're alone it is our national duty to defend our right to defend our people for a better life and for Freedom third the international community's policy of appeasing as I mentioned before unfortunately so far we have been alone and we have been left alone and we have been left forgotten over the past three years the International Community have pursued a policy of appeasement and unconditional engagement with the Taliban which has been criticized massively and collectively by the majority of people of Afghanistan it is crucial to understand that Afghanistan has changed while the Taliban May control the country they do not represent the will of the population Afghanistan's youth especially young girls have dreams and aspiration no different from their peers around the globe social media is flooded with the voices of these young people and a recent un report indicates that only 4% of the population supports Taliban and their ideology this clearly demonstrate that the people of Afghanistan are trapped on the taliban's reign of terror and tyranny and the fourth what we want the national resistance front is a part of democratic forces and the people of Afghanistan who are fighting for a free and safe and Democratic afan the NRF Ed from the remant of the Fallen Republic with a seed fast commitment to establishing a democratic and pluralistic Afghanistan for all citizens we have carried out hundreds of successful operations against the Taliban after the Taliban refused to talk negotiate and to accept the will of people of Afghanistan after the fall of Kul I have engaged in talks with Taliban for many weeks but the Taliban refused time after time to talk and to allow the people of Afghanistan to decide I went even to this PO that I told them that I am willing to give up my own life and I'm not looking for anything but only for the people to decide there is one condition that we want although the Taliban were ready and they wanted to offer me a position in their government but my request was simply one thing where is the rule of people and where is the position of people and that I want it and we want it and the people of Afghanistan want one thing for them to be able to decide for the future so what I requested and what I still request is just simply one thing election if the Taliban have any support within Afghanistan if they have any courage to even say such thing that they are the will of people of Afghanistan then they should happily allow people to decide in the ballot of votes and through the votes but they refused so therefore after we have been forced to and we have been left with no choice but to pick up arms once again and to fight we have managed to do something unimaginable and almost impossible from the ruins and From the Ashes we emerged once again and last just last year we have carried out hundreds of operation successfully with no casualties to anything and for to uh any civilians our approach to violence is carefully calculated aimed at protecting our communities from those who are targeting teachers engineers and health workers in response to the Taliban destructive policies we are redefining militarism and our history with each passing day more of Afghanistan's people are rallying to our side and we are now active and over half of the country this year alone we have expanded into the Western and Eastern regions successfully challenging the Taliban and their terrany however all of this it is for a Democratic of Afghanistan one of the means that we want to reach there it is through political activities that we have been active and we have been involved in and one of is the Vienna process for the future of Afghanistan for the first time we have established a political process that is LED and owned by the people of Afghanistan and dependent of significant foreign support the Vienna process for Democratic Afghanistan exemplified our ability to unite and move forward collectively it is important that International Community recognize and assist this need and allows us to prepare for Democratic alternative the national resistance front focus on three primary areas instilling hope among the people and preventing the normalization of the current situation we know that the situation is very hard and we know how lonely our people but what we should do is to keep this flame and this hope alive in the darkest time and the lest of eras the second engaging in discussion with all key political figures and parties and forming a United Coalition against the Taliban in current situation and other terrorist groups and prevailing current situation and establishing a government that belongs to all that all of us all Africans they feel safe they feel they belong to that government to that establishing and also they can be able to live peacefully with each other and with the world in conclusion we fully recognize the high expectation placed upon us by the people of Afghanistan many see the NRF as a potential successor to the previous government but we are determined to both to meet those expectation but but to create a situation with the help of the people of Afghanistan alongside many other parties and groups to once again make Afghanistan to possess a government that we all feel belonged and we be proud and to once again find our spot and the world thank you for your attention I look forward to my colleague Mr nazari addressing your questions and concerns during the panel discussion thank you so much for having me God bless you all awesome wow it's just so great having Mr msud here to talk about what's going on on the ground and I want to thank all of you for being here our live audience and those watching at home I to moderate panel really some some esteemed individuals we have here to talk about um what's going on the last three years and even time before that um and uh I'm excited to invite Ali and nari who is the head of Foreign Relations at the national resistance front of Afghanistan um he assumed the position after the Taliban return into power in 2021 and before before assuming this position Mr nazari worked as a liaison between various resistance groups and international organizations facilitating Aid and support to those fighting against the Taliban um thank you so much for being here Ary I appreciate that we also have Ambassador haidari he served as the ambassador of Afghanistan to Sri Lanka and is also an Adent professor at the Georgetown University School of Foreign Service uh and most recently he started a think tank called the world in 2050 where he served as a senior fellow and andom medic corer there um and um previously before that he was the director general of policy and strategy of the ministry of the Foreign Affairs of Afghanistan from 2015 to 2018 and of course our very own Luke coffee uh who is a senior fellow here at Hudson and just has has an extensive body of work in Central Asia and throughout and um and most recently just as Mr mud mentioned he just published this report talking about why the US should support the national resistance front in Afghanistan I'd encourage all of you if you can after this just pick up a copy um it really lays out the issue of what's been going on and how the US um could could partner with the NRF um before we get started I'd love just to have each of you to share some opening remarks U and uh and and share kind of what um what we all should know about this issue thank you very much uh first and foremost uh I would like to thank Hudson Institute for hosting this event today uh especially our good friend uh Luke coffee um who wrote this uh fantastic polic me memo that um um presents and recommends uh policies that can certainly both help the Democratic forces of Afghanistan especially the NRF and um the and and Global Security as well uh and U so of course uh Mr Mass the leader of the national resistance font of Afghanistan um had a com comprehensive uh Speech right now explain explaining the NRF our objectives our vision for Afghanistan but I would like to elaborate a bit um uh and and to give uh a bit more explanation yeah where we stand uh of course uh we formed right after the collapse of the Republic of Afghanistan on August 15 2021 from uh two provinces uh in the North uh and uh basically the NRF um is made up of both a political wing and a military Wing the military Wing solely um composed of the uh former uh forces of Afghanistan armed forces of Afghanistan which were uh trained for 20 years to fight terrorism and so on August 15th thousands of these forces and instead of uh fleeing the country and abandoning the fight they came to the north and and since then they've continued the fight under the banner of the NRF for the past three years of course we've proven a few things especially in the battlef our will and determination to continue the global war on terror to fight uh terrorism of all forms of whatever group there is whether it's the Taliban terrorist group inside Afghanistan Regional terrorist groups and Global networks such as Al-Qaeda and Isis iskp and of course our ability our capabilities for the past three years since our resistance started we haven't received a scent of external support external assistance basically the regional countries and the International Community have stayed away from supporting uh the resistance against the Taliban the resistance that the NRF started on August 15th 2021 and whatever we've done is based on the support and generosity of our people and so for the past three years we've been able to not only survive and sustain our presence inside Afghanistan but we've been able to expand and grow from two provinces now we're in almost 20 provinces just in the past uh 8 months we've been operating in well over um over 15 provinces in the last 40 days we have had operations in over 12 provinces just this year from uh January of 2024 we've had around just our latest operation was last night in herat city but the total amount of op operations successful operations that we've had since January of 2024 is around 206 operations in all of these provinces in Northern Afghanistan Central Afghanistan uh Western Afghanistan and Eastern Afghanistan especially now since the start of this year in the cities in the urban area such as Cabell herat and elsewhere so so that shows our ability and capability thirdly the last three years has shown who has popular legitimacy inside the country the reason why we've been able to expand without any support from outside of Afghanistan is because we enjoy the support of our people from whatever ethnic religious group they are both men and women they are lending us a hand they are supporting us because they know the current situation isn't in our in their no one inside Afghanistan as Mr mut mentioned only in a survey that was conducted by the United Nations only 4% of the population Express support from the Taliban and so we are the forces who enjoy legitimate support from the population they help us whether it's in rural Afghanistan or Urban Afghanistan this is why the Taliban are unable to find our networks in the from J of 20224 till now we haven't had any casualties our forces haven't had any casualties and this is driving the enemy into confusion it's exhausting them it's frustrating them and they're mentioning this all over the place we leaked the memo a few weeks ago that their intelligence unit is what is is showing concern and and is worried in in a few provinces in the north around bam Arab that uh NRF forces are having movement they're recruiting and and they're um planning and facilitating attacks without them knowing and having uh intelligence to stop this and so we've shown this for the past three years the ball isn't in our court anymore it's now time for the International Community to step up and to take and to to adopt a more realistic policy that's not only in its interests but in the interest of Afghanistan's people because the trajectory that we are on today in Afghanistan even though we've been making strides we have achievements but we're doing it all alone and we can't fight 21 terrorist groups Regional and Global terrorist groups without support without assistance and so our message to the International Community is time is of its Essence if we don't use this opportunity and especially empower the Democratic forces the anti-terrorist forces which they were trained to do so for 20 years which we've been determined to do so for 30 years because 2024 is the 30th anniversary of the creation of the Taliban terrorist group they were created in 1994 or in 2024 today and for the past 30 years has been us who have been facing them in the battlefield from 1994 to 2001 before 911 we were fighting this battle all alone after 911 of course the International Community came in but they abandoned it once again in 2021 and since 2021 we've been continuing this if we want to prevent a catastrophe on a global scale I think it's the time to take action and to rethink the policy on Afghanistan thank you thank you thank you Ambassador sure well thank you so much uh for this opportunity and thank you um uh Luke uh for continuing to uh stay with the people of Afghanistan and for the Hudson Institute unfortunately uh today's Washington's uh um fashion of unfortunately for tank tanks to go where of course certain policy uh interests and uh objectives take them but I think H one which has stay very close to its uh mission of uh uh helping support Freedom democracy uh equal human rights uh across the world and I think Luke has done it not only of course in Ukraine where everyone talks about but uh certainly is still what I've understand I think is uh eloquent uh report speaks to that I I I read that it's uh short about 14 pages but everyone every word counts and I told them that's one of the best reports that I've uh read probably uh for a long time and I recommend that that you all take a look at it his recommendations so concrete not just for you know Democrats but also of course Republicans whoever wins in the next uh coming up uh uh elections um and it's um again for what the Afghan people uh demand democracy pluralism human rights equal rights we see it every day as Mr massud and Mr nazari pointed out and NRF I think represent that voice uh I don't belong to NRF I'm a former uh Service uh officer a political uh not a nephew or son of anyone I just went back home to do uh uh my part from Georg to University and I'm back uh there uh now doing my part uh to continue to speak for the people of Afghanistan we are suffering from a multiplicity of Crisis uh we just heard that from political security uh to uh economic uh social in uh a very complex humanitarian crisis where you have on the one hand gender appetite convert merging with climate and as well as uh conflict uh it's not true that of course the toban have brought peace it's not sustainable as uh Mr Luke uh cof's um discussed in his report of want is very insecure on in number of days unfortunately people die directly as a result of violence and indirectly something that people don't talk about if you look at uh the socioeconomic indicators especially uh social indicators Afghanistan has gone back to the 19 90s where more people are dying as a result of the Draconian policies icts and decrees the last of which the tan just announced the the promotion of virtue and prevention of Vice are dying today because if you stifle woman if you impr present woman then their children suffer that's the future of Afghanistan and the youth suffer and I think the only um uh perhaps group that is really speaking up and resisting is the NRF and uh uh as a result um we need to uh I think pay attention to the situation in Afghanistan because it has implications not for the Afghan people as we saw in the 1990s that's why Afghans are leaving by thousands especially the youth going to Iran from there to Turkey and then ending up on the shores of Europe uh but uh uh also tatus of uh woman as as we know and read about almost uh every day so radicalization is a serious threat as it was uh mentioned because where women are impris and are not able to bring up and raise their children and in a way that they should unfortunately and where the economy is collaps and there are no jobs and where the Taliban is uh investing so much of our national revenues into uh building these mades very much styled after those du bandi mades of Pakistan then and just a few years you will have a sizable radicalized uh youth because ofan remember is one of the youthful populations in the region with over 60% under 25 and that is direct implication for regional stability and Global Security as you mentioned in your report I think there are already terrorists not only from of course W aoson those are loyal to number of regional ter groups including uh IMU etim Each of which have their own dis Wings because Das in Afghanistan is not organic it's inorganic it's very much embedded in the Taliban especially the hakani network and as well as alqaeda and they're all you know uh interrelated and intertwined symbiotically so this um you know as uh not just an implication for the afan people who have been unfortunately um abundant but for the region and I think the message for the region is is very clear I've seen it in the uh you know recent attacks from Pakistan to Iran to uh uh Moscow and now of course the recent attack in uh Germany that is associated with uh Dash those that migrate those who are brainwashed by uh Dash and related uh networks uh online so uh my message again on behalf of the Afghan people very much discussed debated in the recent uh Vienna process again which is the only process out there as an umbrella for all Afghans under which they have come together now some 70 different groups networks of both genders and as well as youth to discuss exactly what uh we uh discussed and that's the national consensus among all Afghans regardless of ethnicity sect and linguistic and Regional demanding a pluralistic a democratic uh a government uh consistent with the very nature and culture of the Afghan people we and the sus are very uh much alike why because they are mountainous and we are mountainous and mountainous people often are free-spirited they run away from you know a an authoritarian regime from the center and and and seek uh autonomy as a result that egalitarian um uh nature of the Afghan people make them a perfect candidate for you know uh institutionalization of democracy something that the Afghan people fought and bled by hundreds of thousands up until August 15 when unfortunately the Biden Administration decided to withdraw their support for a growing young democracy with transformational uh achievements with a direct unfortunately impact on the global Appeal on the global appeal for democracy which has unfortunately been uh diminishing because of what happened uh in Afghanistan which again can be restored by continuing to support the 95 plus% of the Afghan people demanding Democratic rule consistent with the Afghan culture and Islam very much enshrined that the Afghan Constitution which was enforced uh before uh August uh 20 uh August uh 15 2021 so I stop that thank you thank you thanks uh I want to thank Mr and our guests for heaping so much praise on my report it runs the risk of raising expectations so high you'll read it and you'll probably never return to Hudson again uh but thank you very much for for those for those kind words you know on the report a serious note about the report um I am fully aware that it it is a report about Afghanistan that's very narrowly focused on us support to the NRF and making the case on why it is important for the us to do so so and I'm very aware of all the other multitude of challenges that the US faces as it pertains to the Taliban pertains to the plight of the Afghans the humanitarian crisis in Afghanistan that's taking place the tens of thousands of Afghans who were left behind in the country that we promised to get out and the tens of thousands of Afghans that we got out and brought to this country but they have no legal path forward to remain in this country there are a lot of issues that need to be addressed but this one issue about supporting the national resistance front of Afghanistan is one that I believe deserves more attention from US policy makers and lawmakers and I think there are four reasons why supporting the NRF makes sense and I'm going to list them now uh the first one which admittedly um or I should say sadly in the divisive nature of our politics and our country right now doesn't have as much meaning as it would have had 15 or 20 years ago that is the moral reason uh we have a you know we have a we should see it as a moral obligation to help those who we served alongside who have sacrificed so much uh for us interests over the past two decades we should follow through with these these moral commitments and let me tell you on America's disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan America's disastrous defeat in Afghanistan there's plenty of blame to go around president Trump baked this dish Bill and President Biden could have changed it and he didn't he had no problem changing dozens of other Trump era Administration policies executive orders agreements but this one he says he couldn't change and that's because we know looking back at the history from the time President Biden was Vice President Biden he never really liked the Afghan Mission anyway so we had this perfect political storm of uh incompetence as it pertained to Afghanistan and we are where we are today with this so we should have the resolve to identify those Afghans who can continue to resist Taliban Rule and we should at a minimum for moral reasons support them the second is counterterrorism as Oli pointed out and as Mr massud alluded to uh there are numerous transnational and Regional terrorist organizations operating in Afghanistan go back and look at the agreement that was agreed between the Taliban and the Trump Administration what what the Taliban promised about al- Qaeda and terrorist organizations in that country and then look what's happening there now there's a Litany of reports out there that show that transnational terrorist organizations are proliferating in Afghanistan Al Qaeda is operating in this country in a way not seen since before 911 if you want proof of this just consider the fact that the leader of Al Qaeda a couple of years ago was killed in a in a US drone strike in cabul what the hell was the leader of Al qaa doing in cabul to begin with uh so clearly uh there are counterterrorism threats in Afghanistan that are compounded by the openness of our Southern border and wouldn't it be helpful for the us to have at least one credible and trustworthy actor on the ground that we could talk to and and work with when it comes to our counterterrorism efforts in Afghanistan the NRF in this sense isn't a silver bullet for the United States and our counterterrorism goals but certainly one important tool in that counterterrorism toolbox that we should be using and that's another reason why we should be working with the NF the third reason is ensuring and protecting America's geopolitical interests the look at the a map of the of the Eurasian land mass Afghanistan is right in the middle of it by definition anything in the middle in the heart of something is important Afghanistan for centuries has been geopolitically important because of its location because of its different uh ethnic groups because of its different ties to Regional powers and there's no reason to the case going forward so you look at the rise of China belligerent Russia uh concerns that US policy makers have with Iran uh and you factor you overlay that with the transnational terrorist threat and it just makes makes sense that the US has someone we can engage with in Afghanistan and then the final uh reason um we should just heed the historical lessons of Afghanistan we can like it or we can hate it but the reality is Afghanistan brings us back okay and it may be far away for people looking at a map but you know going back and I listed it all here on a on a nice timeline going back two centuries there are at least 19 occasions where us or European powers got involved or intervened in some capacity in Afghanistan some of these were Wars some of these were were airlifts some of these were counterterrorism strikes some of these were diplomatic missions to try to alter the geopolitical balance in the world uh some of these were uh development and financial assistance initiatives to counterbalance the Soviet Union some some of them were to um in the case of Russia or then the later Soviet Union it was to you know install certain powers in Afghanistan but 19 times so roughly about every 10 years if you average it out someone far away from Afghanistan For Better or For Worse is getting involved in Afghanistan so again wouldn't it make sense just to have a partner on the ground that we can work with so we can be smart about it now what can we do about this there are there are policy options that are out there I think the main problem we have right now is that as a nation perhaps and certainly this Administration there's just so much shame or there should be about way we handle this situation that nobody really wants to talk about Afghanistan I mean if you look at the the the Republican uh National Convention the Republican National Committee platform doesn't mention the word Afghanistan once the Democrat platform uh talks about the great foreign policy success the withdrawal from Afghanistan was it's like we're in complete denial um but if there's a new Administration and a new approach a Fresh Approach at least you know it won't be new in a sense that it's either going to be Trump he was before or you know president Harris who was vice president when all this went down but it may offer opportunity for a clean slate going forward we should pursue this and there are some policy options that we can we can do and I just want to run a few run run through a few of these now um the first thing we should do is just establish contact with the political office of the NRF in Tajikistan um at a minimum let's send a sencom liaison officer from the US defense section at the embassy in duchan be over and just have a cup of tea in a conversation let's do that what I would like to see is the US uh mission to Afghanistan which is currently located in Qatar I would like to see that moved to Duan B make it physically geographically closer to Afghanistan in the region and closer to the NRF uh we should also send senior level officials to the next Vienna process meeting uh as um Mr massud discussed the Vienna process is this diplomatic track that the NF NRF and other um opposition groups to the Taliban are is pursuing in Vienna they meet roughly twice a year uh we should be sending the US Special Envoy to Vienna to observe these talks it would be great for a Congressional Delegation to be sent there to participate in these talks we should invite Mr massud to Washington so he can address Congress I think it'd be nice to hear an inspirational message uh I think the American people would like to hear this I think there are hundreds of thousands of Afghan vets we would like to hear this uh think it would just be good to in invite him to Washington and engage with him on that level we should continue uh refusing to recognize the Taliban as the legitimate government of Afghanistan there are a lot of countries that are really flirting with this getting close um we we should do what we can to Advocate against this and as the United States we certainly shouldn't go down this road and I'll say you know I understand that there are practical pragmatic reasons why we have to now talk to the Taliban who are the de facto rulers of Afghanistan but what I don't understand is how are we as a nation willing to take this pragmatic position of talking to the Taliban on issue by isue basis that we won't even formally or informally for that matter reach out to the NRF it makes no sense to me it's geopolitical uh negligence in my opinion and we should Al um finally we should find ways that we can support uh the NRF whether you know we want to go the non-lethal route just you know cold weather gear um radios secure Communications night vision goggles this sort of thing or we can get a little more ambitious and we can talk about options for lethal Aid although admittedly I don't think this city or is anywhere near that discussion right now um but uh you know there's $7 billion Frozen in of Afghan Central Bank funds apparently indirectly I know there's a lot of misinformation this is a very complicated issue but indirectly hundreds of millions of dollars are are going to Afghans possibly via the the Taliban indirectly from the US taxpayer so maybe some of these funds can maybe indirectly find their way to the RF so they can do things like the Vienna process so they can establish political offices in key capitals I think this would help um Advance the debate show the world that you know the Afghan people want an alternative to the Taliban and America can achieve all of this the four goals I the four reasons I set out the the geopolitical reasons the moral reasons the counterterrorism reasons the historical reasons we can achieve all this with what is actually very little resources and no US troops so I think this is something that we need to uh start considering I I do hope that um after January of next year we can start having a grown-up debate on what we need to do about Afghanistan because I I I suspect I hate to say but I suspect in about 10 years we're going to be we're going to have a newfound interest in Afghanistan once again if history repeats and we're going to be uh there without a partner on the ground that we can work with thanks thank you Luke um Oli I want to come back to you and and on this point luk I hit on this too just you know we were this supposed this farce of a Taliban 2.0 and they're going to supposedly you have all these empty promises of cutting off their ties with Al Qaeda and all these things we know none of that ever happened um and in the last three years Al Qaeda and Isis have actually been strengthened under Taliban rule uh can you talk a little bit about that about just the the threat of transnational terrorism and how that's how they have now have Safe Harbor in Afghanistan once again of course uh this is a warning that we've been giving for years um even before August of 2021 whenever I had discussions or the leader of the national resistance front Mr massud had discussions during his uh trips before August 2021 uh which he uh has narrated it in his uh book which came out a few months ago he uh we warned the International Community we warned uh the United States and and others who were present in Afghanistan that the Taliban haven't changed that whatever promise they've made um must not be trusted uh that these are all false promises uh that this is a false narrative that they're selling in order to um um return to power and we've seen this after August 2021 uh now it's evident that the Taliban not only have changed of course but they've radicalized they haven't moderated they've radicalized since 2001 and the latest um proof is the uh set of laws that came out last week uh by by the talian where basically it's it isn't different than what uh Isis implemented in Iraq and Syria in 2014 and other terrorist groups or in in the Muslim world uh women can't speak women can't sing in public women can't uh show their faces in public uh to laws such as um U forbidding people from speaking with non-muslims and very extremist thoughts and beliefs and Views uh that that shows that ideologically there is no difference between the Taliban Al-Qaeda iskp and all these other um region and international Terror groups when it comes to the taliban's role in promoting supporting and assisting these groups uh there's now now ample evidence uh after three years that we can use and and and uh come to this conclusion three years ago when we were stating all of this um or others uh who were stating this no one believed us uh they were saying no the Taliban has changed we're interacting with with them engaging with them we have an agreement where they say we're not going to allow Al-Qaeda to re grow and and pose a threat to the International Community again and uh we see them as a partner but now there is evidence there is plenty of United Nations security Council reports uh reports coming from other intelligence services that show the seriousness of this threat we see countries who previously supported them who founded them who uh provided them Sanctuary like Pakistan Pakistan from 1994 supported the Taliban were their number one partner after 2001 they harbored the Taliban leadership until 2021 but today they even betrayed Pakistan because of their jihadist ideology that they're supporting um a group a strong group uh called the TTP or Pakistani Taliban movement and they've been increasing their efforts against the Pakistani government to overthrow this government and to expand the so-called Islamic Emirates if Pakistan is unable to trust them if Pakistan considers them a threat if Pakistan considers the Taliban as the number one sponsor of Terror how can anyone else trust them one two is of course the movement and the activity of of terrorists that we see inside Afghanistan besides the regional terrorist groups like The TTP jamat that is threatening the stability and peace of Tajikistan and other Central Asian groups Al-Qaeda has been expanding itself just this year Al-Qaeda has built and established eight new bases al-Qaeda in the 1990s up to 2001 was only present in a few parts of Afghanistan today Al-Qaeda is present throughout the country for the first time Al-Qaeda has a Footprints in Northern Afghanistan for the first time they are present in the pure Valley this was impossible for them to do in back in the 1990s before 911 but today Al-Qaeda is present in the occupied parts of pure Valley in the heart of pure which is bazak they have Munitions Depot there they have their training centers many of these foreign terrorist Fighters have even brought their families so you can just imagine how the situation is much worse than what we faced in the 1990s with terrorism as uh Luke rightly stated the leader of al-Qaeda was was in kabble and he was of course um neutralized two years ago yet the new leader of al-Qaeda sa right now is residing in Afghanistan is managing the Affairs of al-Qaeda and after more than a decade he came out with al-qaeda's most significant message in the month of June June of 2024 saying Afghanistan is once again safe for us and he writes this it's a it's an article it's found online it's open source he writes it in Arabic and has been translated in many languages Saul writes that once again Afghanistan is safe he assures jihadists around the globe that Afghanistan is safe meaning we have a partner in Afghanistan which is the Taliban he calls upon all these jihadists to migrate to Afghanistan and to you learn from the example of the Taliban and to train recruit and prepare themselves in Afghanistan and then to plan and facilitate attacks and he uses this term the west and this is being ignored how many people in Washington know about this statement right now I I haven't really heard this on the news I haven't heard it in the two campaigns and just imagine Al-Qaeda is preparing itself to expand its Jihad once again in the west and it it came out a statement that's a declaration of war and of course it's and we're seeing the threats now last week it was in Germany we saw many fortunately many attacks that were foiled that were neutralized but such intentions and uh such plans to attack civilians and and non- civilians whether it's in the west or elsewhere is a reality now if if the attack against the uh concert in Vienna wouldn't have been neutralized we would have had thousands dead right now just here in the United States and North America in the month of June 7 terrorists were arrested in three different US cities seven terrorists who entered the United States through the southern border and they were of course tajik Nationals so they belonged to tajikstan but they didn't travel from Tajikistan they traveled from Afghanistan that's where the tajic national the Central Asian uh terrorists reside in right now that are uh living under the protection of the Taliban that are receiving arms Munitions funds from the T tban they have even been handed over the security of the northern border the Taliban have allowed these Central Asian terrorists to control the border with Central Asia and these Central Asian terrorists are training and going to different countries including the United States and this is evidence where the Taliban have distributed Afghanistan's passports to these foreign Fighters whether it's Al-Qaeda or these Regional terrorist groups so imagine how many terrorists have infiltrated Europe North America with the guys or disguise uh of of being refugees if if seven terrorists were arrested here in the US imagine how many more are here just waiting to plan an attack that's right and and and Implement an attack while inside Afghanistan the NRF are the only forces fighting all of these terrorist groups but receiving no support receiving no endorsement and of course we're going to continue this we are determined to continue this but fighting 21 Regional and international terrorist groups isn't an easy task yeah and we need the cooperation of the International Community to expand to be able to challenge them because one thing that I want to State here the Taliban the current situation of the Taliban is very fragile the Taliban isn't a monolithic group there's divided into many factions uh cble and kahar at are at it each other's throats and we might face an implosion within the Taliban as soon as the implosion happens a vacuum will be created inside Afghanistan if the NRF if the Democratic forces of Afghanistan aren't ready for this vacuum if we're not strengthened you have other terrorist groups use this opportunity isap might step in al-Qaeda might step in and addressing that catastrophe will be much more costly than addressing it today it will be much more complex and difficult to address it than than it is today and so it's better to rethink uh the policy to take Afghanistan once again into consideration and to start uh um a path where it's in the interest of both Afghanistan's people and and and the International Community awesome thank you for that um Ambassador I want to come to you uh you know we're wrapping up here looking at the International Community why is it important that we the International Community refuses to recognize Taliban and can you talk about the kind of case against making sure the Taliban is not normalized and officially recognized in the in the International Community IC circles well I mean the Taliban is still an armed non-estate actor remember that the Taliban forcefully uh captured uh Afghanistan and over through a Democratic elected uh government recognized uh by an International Community and under international law and the Taliban has been an very clear uh violation of the United Nations Charter and as well as all you know International humanarian and as well as human uh laws as well as aan son's uh International obligation which include uh seven uh instruments of uh uh human uh rights and we see the gender aperti uh only enforc and Afghanistan and gross violation of the UN Charter and related instruments as well as International uh human uh uh uh rights uh law and uh and uh so it's it's very clear uh why the International Community including Pakistan I mean the taliban's traditional sponsor which is Pakistan has refused to uh recognize the Taliban as much as it was you know with the support of Pakistan which the Taliban was able to uh overthrow the government in Afghanistan and as well as facilitated by this premature withdrawal uh from uh Afghanistan and so uh it's very clear as a result from the reports of the human rights repertoire uh Mr Richard Bennett who unfortunately was just refused uh entry to uh Afghanistan he wanted to go for as I think third or fourth uh report building on what he had uh reported in the past in part because of you know the way he exposes the Taliban and a violation of international laws and and and that which underpin rules-based world uh order and also because the uh region and the World At Large aside from this pragmatic you know approaches and engagements they don't see a future with the Taliban each one of our neighbors in the region look at the Taliban as a strategic trap uh while engaging with the Taliban for pragmatic reasons but definitely not engaging in a way that the Taliban has expected them to for one China uh has been promising and over promising the Taliban to uh invest uh in in Afghanistan for the past three years but yet China is uh put no Capital intensive investment in a simply because they don't trust uh uh the Taliban because the Taliban is harboring uh and giving safe Sanctuary for members of the uh East turkistan Islamic movement the weager suest and terrorists uh in Afghanistan and as a result the same is true of usbekistan uh while engaging with the Taliban but not trusting the Taliban simply because the Taliban is providing safe Sanctuary for members of the IMU and as well as for Tajikistan the Taliban have already facilitated the creation of the what they call the Taliban of Tajikistan um and the TTT is already actually operational and the uh barakan of Tajikistan directly threatening the stability of this fragile unfortunately the probably uh least developed uh Central Asian State uh Tajikistan and so as a result Tajikistan has realized that and has been more Cooperative I think with uh aanan growing national uh resistance um and yet maintaining you know a degree of Engagement with uh with uh with tajikstan and that's because as much as the International Community uh had been talking about this in a new version of the Taliban uh 2. uh uh oh that is not materialized that the Taliban as Mr nazaria just pointed out I've only worsen ideologically and uh as well as in terms of posing threats at home and it's in the region and across the world given their you know intertwined relationships with that uh you know 20 other Regional and Global terrorist networks especially uh Dish as much as now we talk about how dish and the Taliban are fighting but we know that San used to be a close associate of s judin aoni who has now a bounty of $10 million from FBI of the United States is also a sanctioned uh um um uh leader of the Taliban and if you look at now the relationship of the minister of defense of the Taliban is the brother in the law of Usama Bin Laden I mean his s his sister married uh Laden so it's not only you know these ties are are not just ideological but also familial or relational and as well as Financial because some of these uh terrorist networks working with different countries and the state actors also bling a lot of resources and their proxy conflicts with you know other state actors uh in the region when we we could uh example uh point out even the Das wing of India and and Afghanistan unfortunately uh targeting of course uh Pakistan and so forth as a result it's very complicated and that's why I think uh the International Community on the one hand engaging and proxy ways and and pragmatic direct uh engagements with the Taliban yet they don't see a future uh on the long run and the Taliban and as a result the only alternative is the Afghan people that 95 that 95% of the Afghan people more than half of whom are women and women won what they want equal rights they want democracy they want pluralism consistent with the Afghan Afghanistan's egalitarian culture and that's why these Wom the Afghan people and dra Embrace democracy and repeatedly despite the challenges terrorist attacks braved you know threats to participate in a number of uh presidential and parliamentary elections to to uh uh elected Democratic uh government that is inclusive that represents more than 55 ethnic groups we talk about n you know four five major ethnic groups but Afghanistan is very multiethnic simply because ofan at the heart of Eurasia i' always been the super Hive of the old cro bringing different ethnicities looks features from across the world if you go from one you know small District to another you will see different people different looks different uh dialects so aanan is very diverse and naturally rejects this totalitarian authoritarian um uh regime of the Taliban super imposed and also with a a a wrong interpretation of Islam which is unfortunately fueling islamophobia and that's why the afcan people have been calling on the you know member states of the OAC organization of uh Islamic cooperation to actually fight this a lot more actively because if they're after you know trying to address islamophobia and and and developed countries one way to do it is to you know help rationalize the status quo and under uh the Taliban if their own women and their own girls and families enjoy the same basic civil rights regardless of you know the form of the governments in place like Egypt now look at you know the uh Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia is liberalizing woman elaborating woman simply because he knows that um for Saudi Arabia to really develop on a sustainable basis and to compete regionally and globally know half of its population need to be and the for Workforce and and and Lead D along side the man and these are some of the countries that actually recognize the Taliban the first round in the 1990s including Emirates and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan now uh amires are getting very close to the Taliban they're now tapping in all three different uh major four factions of the Taliban including in the faction led by Madar representing Qatar um the hakan led by saraj aani m is the Minister of Defense and as well as the supreme leader himself um Mah centered in in kandar so we encourage you know countries like United Arab Emirates that look you know we all sit and talk about Dubai and you know life and emirat everyone aspiring to go there to get jobs and uh whatnot you know giving any sort of you know freedom and opportunity for their own citizens and as well as uh foreign workers and visitors and experts and yet siding with you know entities like the Taliban unfortunately against the Afghan people which on the medium to long term is going to cause Regional instability and International Peace and uh security so what the Afghan people want nothing more than actually asking the International Community the member states especially those in the P5 to just act on those resolutions that they pass one after another you know you look at the latest resolution it condemns the Taliban if you just look at the July um report by Yama and Afghanistan on the moral oversight uh uh activities of the Taliban which it condemns and the statement just came out from the uh un special Envoy or representative to Afghanistan so we're not sure of what the the knowledge of what the Taliban are doing nor are we short of you know past resolutions resolutions that have been released and adopted by the member of states in the P5 over the past uh three years and if there is one place where you know say even Russia and China and the United States three competing you know confronting major Powers uh afans is at least on the paper that is you know to help rationalize the status quo in Afghanistan that they see no future no alternative and the Taliban for regional ensuring Regional stability and maintaining International Peace and security under the UN Charter and that's what the afan people want and that's what also we I for the first time went to the Vienna process fourth meeting and as much as it was labored one way or the other but what I found there you know Afghans from all you know ethnic groups like I said a while ago from bendus youth talking exactly about uh what we have discussed today for the international Community to help you know support their efforts to engage with the Taliban constructively to bring the Taliban as one of many sites in Afghanistan to help form an inclusive representative government to a a results oriented intra Afghan dialogue that needs to start I mean the steps have been taken by the Vienna process but with the support of the International Community especially the uh Administration here and whatever Administration that will come into office I think that process has the potential to take off bringing all Afghans under one umbrella and in in engaging with the Taliban not only politically but also I think the Afghan people want their growing resistance it's not limited to NRF there are a number of other resistance groups now the freedom uh fronts of both you know uh two different ethnic groups in Afghanistan including one by ethnic hazaras and as well as another front run by a former pashon Commander there at least now four so which means uh you know that they all represent that one demand from the International Community to help them politically to talk including the Taliban but also help their resistance where the Taliban are reluctant to do so because they're fed off the status quo it's killing afans it's driving afans out with implications for our neighbors the region and and the World At Large wow thank you so much much Ambassador for that and and thank you also Ali and for joining this is an honor and we just thank you for your fight and how you're fighting for your country and thanks you for sharing more about what the NRF is doing um and just as another reminder please pick up a report talking about why it's important that the United States stands with the national resistance front um want to thank everyone for being here and even folks watching online stay in touch with us you can go to hudson. org to see our upcoming events we' love to stay in touch with you take care