Ben Verlander says Elly De La Cruz is more exciting than Aaron Judge?!? | Off the Bench Clips

all right and we are right back here Off the Bench presented by United Dairy Farmers Chatterbox Sports on YouTube 1410 ESPN Radio in Dayton Justin Kenner Casey mallister Elliot rearing Jacob tissit with you here we talked a little Reds a little bit ago it it kind of brought the mood down a little bit Jacob got a little sad Elliot was getting a little angry uh nonetheless but that's kind of where we're at there was a lot of expectations for the Cincinnati Reds coming into this season and I remember back during spring training having a chance to catch up with our next guest Mr Ben Verlander who's taking some time to hang out with us here on Off the Bench Ben we appreciate your time welcome in sir of course appreciate it thanks for having me Hey so uh last time we talked you had me all jacked up and fired up about the Cincinnati Reds I was actually fired up about the Reds before our conversation but you added to the excitement look thanks happen injuries happen but uh we saw the youth movement really just infused some excitement into this fan base last year things a little murky for the Reds fan base right now but from your perspective from the outside looking in following this team what the heck has happened with the Reds this season outside of just the injury excuse of course yeah I think you can use the injuries as a as a you know if if you want to just comb over it you can say injuries have been a problem but I think it's a little deeper than that it's just been a frustrating year uh to watch it just never felt like it clicked and you know that's not to say injuries haven't played Factor before the year even started they were dealing with injuries and then um you know the suspension to Marte and there was just a lot that came up that really kind of put a damper on things right before the season started and it just never really it never really came to it this team you know I I was really excited about the pitching staff that they have and unfortunately the offense just really really wasn't as good as it needed to be I I I did I thought it could be good enough I thought the pitching would be really good and that the offense could be good enough and take another step forward uh I do think we saw a step forward with Ellie uh the year that he's having is really good and I do think that's promising but I think a lot of guys kind of stayed put or took a step back and that couldn't be afforded with the with the offense that the Reds have they don't have those you know that Superstar player other than like an la de la Cruz type they don't have those huge bats in in the offense I I didn't feel like they added enough offensively to really help this team be as good as they needed to but I still thought they could be good enough and then injury after injury after injury just really put a damper on it but by and large underperformance across the board and an underwhelming year for the Reds when I thought they could be a playoff team Ben Verlander with us uh you mentioned La DEA Cruz obviously we expected him to take a big step this year and he did that from your expectations of what you expected from him in year two to where he to where he's actually reached at this point how special is la de la Cruz and this is a guy that still has a lot of room to work on his game and he's been beyond special this season but from your perspective how special of a player do the Reds have an Ellie oh it's I I don't even know if we've scratched the surface of Ellie yet which is what makes this so exciting you know you look back to last year and the things that he's improved on to get to where he has this year and you still look at him and say man there is still so much room for improvement and this guy's already an Allstar he's already already stealing a million bases he's already got the the power has really come a long way so you know when he again he's so young so when he matures in in in terms of a of as a baseball player when he when his skills mature on the field I think he's only going to continue to get better and better and better and I already think he's a superstar so we're talking about a potential best player in baseball potential MVP someday and I I can't wait I love every about Ellie I love what he does on the field I love the person he seemingly is off the field and his want to work on English and and figure that out so that the fans can that he can communicate better with them and they can communicate with them for the All-Star game he started learning Japanese I mean he's just an incredible person and player and he's an anomaly in this league I think he absolutely has an MVP award in his future now Ben outside of your guy Sho Otani would you say Ellie De La Cruz is the second most exciting player in baseball as of right now H I don't know that's a tough spot to put me in we got a guy in New York that's gonna hit a million homers and I feel like if I answer he's too old without mentioning Aaron judge I would be uh executed as I already am by Yankee Twitter on a nightly basis so can you throw us a bone though we don't win we don't win championships we don't get to the playoffs just give us this we can have this right here's here's what I will say ell day La Cruz is absolutely more exciting than Aaron judge is he a better baseball player no absolutely can't say that but in terms of excitement on a baseball field I mean Ellie De La Cruz is you know is onea and 1B with with what sh is doing so uh yeah I I love Ellie I'm literally wearing an Ellie shirt it's edl I love it I I like I'll take that answer we we'll take it uh when when you think about a small Market team at some point uh when you're a fan you talk about going quote unquote Allin uh I thought that this year would be the year where it's like okay we work off of last year's uh exciting run you know we were expected to win 68 games you turn out you win 83 and then this season it's all gone wrong everything that could could have gone wrong this year it's gone wrong when do the Reds look at this roster and say you know what we believe in this roster and this offseason we're going to go make some moves we're going to spend when does that come because I don't as after this year I don't know if we're even remotely close yeah that happens last off seon and it didn't uh and that's where that's where the frustration comes I did again I'm not backing down from what I said I thought the Reds were good enough to win the division I thought they were a playoff team I was I was wrong on that but I did feel like they were still missing like it just felt okay this team is so ready they have a rotation that can have a nasty hunter green and Lola and Abbot and they can be their rotation can be numbers-wise it's going to be difficult to be a top rotation in baseball because it's in Cincinnati but stuff wise they can have a top rotation in the game of baseball that nobody's going to want to face and offensively with Ellie and obviously mlan ended up getting hurt and Marte ended up getting suspended and all you know fredal as well and all of that but I did feel like they were good enough they was just missing like a hey you know what let's go grab a da that's sitting let's go grab a JD Martinez and plug him into the lineup or a guy like that and they just didn't make that move and I felt like with a really young team a lot of these guys could be helped by a big veteran hitter you know I was so excited about the the the ability to have in a lineup Matt mlan Ellie uh incarna Strand and just really see them flourish and unfortunately with injuries and a lack of making moves from the front office it just never it never clicked and I do think there's a huge part of a team in an organization and players in the locker room of feeling that buyin from the front office and it's like whoa well we just like I knew we were going to be good but this front office really believes in us and went out and got players to to add around us and that shows us a lot they didn't do that and I felt like it needed to happen I still feel like it needs to happen it needs to happen this coming this coming year I I don't want to waste these years of of what we're going to see from la de la Cruz and and this rotation I mean it's a nasty rotation go add around it go add a good offense go add some vets and go make the playoffs yeah Ben uh we we know what we have in Ellie day La Cruz here in Cincinnati obviously but a lot of the other core guys have been out throughout this year and a lot of the guys that we have seen play on a consistent basis haven't given us what a lot of fans expected do you still have confidence in this red score outside of Ellie or would you look to find some other players outside of the organization to compete for those spots say at third base with Noel V Marte after what we've seen from him this season I don't think it would be fair for me to give up on the court yet with all the injuries that came up I I do think CES can be a really good major league baseball player I do think he showed flashes of it this year I do think his injury was causing him some issues that people might not quite understand he was dealing with while he was playing I do think Matt mlan is going to be good Ellie is obviously very very good so if we're talking the core on offense and pair that with what you have on pitching I I on the in the pitching rotation I do think it can be good enough and I'm not ready to give up on that core I I just think it at some point you can't just run with what you've grown from within you have to add around it and that's what we've seen with everybody that ends up having success over the long term right I mean look at what the Baltimore Orioles are doing they they had their core come up and then they added Corbin Burns they've added relief pitching they add some bats at the they add you know they bring in a big a DH at the deadline and Eloy Jimenez just to help the Houston Astros when their young core came up they added around it with with Justin and with Garrick Cole and with Michael Brantley like it you can't just go forward with your young core because that's never quite going to work even the Royals the the Royals were aw last year yeah and they realized okay we got a core coming up that can be pretty good Bobby Whit Jr we really believe in this guy let's go add a an Adam Frasier and two guys in the rotation I mean you have to add around a young core for it to actually come to fruition I just don't feel like the reds are doing that well enough yet another exciting storyline in baseball right now obviously the fact that the another team in the state of Ohio the Cleveland Guardians multiple times throughout the year had the best record in baseball they had full command of the the AL Central and right now you look at at the Royals coming screaming in behind them uh you know we got to see them you know take and take care of business against the Reds not too long ago the Guardians are an interesting story I've been down on them for a while because five straight years they are the bottom five in spending but they keep winning and while everyone celebrates that I said that's a bad precedent to to to set I don't want teams around baseball to say see we don't need to spend money to win we just need to develop better I like the players on the guardian so I'm not rooting against them but I do find the humor from a front office standpoint that hey maybe you should have been more aggressive in the offseason maybe just maybe you you could have been more aggressive at the trade deadline I I kind of like seeing the front office humbled a bit I just hate that it's at the expense of of what the players are doing on the field which they've struggled down the stretch as well you know I I completely agree with you and over the last couple of years I've started to go down this path of that money ball was terrible for the game of baseball I mean you everybody everybody loves the movie Moneyball right everybody idolizes it everybody says wow what a great thing to come up with what a great uh formula for winning well fun fact they make it seem like the A's won the World Series in that movie they got throttled in the playoffs that year and you then in current day the Tampa Bay Rays and what they're doing it's this mixture of Moneyball and analytics and yeah it can win you regular season games but tell me when it's going to win you a World Series look at what the Rangers did last year they went out and spent a billion dollars on on their middle end field and and pitchers to put around them and they won the World Series and the Guardians this year look I the Guardians aren't going to win the World Series this year I just I don't think they're good enough that they've like you said they've had the best record in baseball for a lot of different times throughout the year but never once have I looked at them and said I I think this team is good enough to win at all I don't I think Jose Ramirez is a superstar I you know I I think Josh Naylor is really good I I I love some of the pieces on that team but I just don't I don't feel it I they have an elite back in the best closer in baseball but I just don't feel like they do enough like they spend enough and time and time again the team that steps up and really adds around them typically has the best chances to win in October and we see these teams get in all the time the Guardians are going to get into the playoffs we've seen the Rays in the playoffs countless times over the last decade we see teams you know we we saw a team like the Diamondbacks get in last year they got to the World Series the Rays have gotten to the World Series but where are those superstars that are going to help you help you win it and not just a Jose Ramirez type you need you need multiple you need some studs in the rotation you need multiple guys in the offense and I just don't feel like the the Guardians front office does enough to win and I feel like they keep getting away with it because they skirt into the playoffs and and maybe win a weak AL Central and have have had really good spurts but they're not spending enough when it when it comes time to it they're going to get exposed in October they just are and I I don't really see a way that that that that doesn't happen if the Guardians win the World Series I'll go public and say yeah I was I'm an idiot what was I talking about but I I don't see that being the case uh would you have gone Scotty H or pain at first base uh good question uh I don't know Scotty I think you gotta go Scotty H because otherwise if you don't go Scotty H you don't get the the elite moment in that movie where he hit the Home Run and then you get to see the 21 game winning streak all culminating magic um and shout out to Oakland they're moving to Sacramento so the movie really worked out for him I it all has worked out perfectly I would say everything's going really well Money Ball Sav the Sacramento Athletics that's what that movie was about that's what people are saying uh final question this whole city is written off David Bell they want this guy out of here yesterday uh 6 years not a lot to show for it at the end of the day your opinion cuz it's my opinion in baseball there's three components of a roster the players on the field the front office and ownership that are more important than the manager but and and for some reason this city blames the manager before everything else in your opinion should the Reds fire David Bell that let me let me rephrase because we don't advocate for calling for anybody's job should the Reds move on or look to move on to a new manager maybe spark some new Direction it's the same question well it's yeah yeah but it's it's a question you can explain to other people people like you weren't calling for his job um look I agree with you I think the manager is the easy guy to put on a on a pedestal and say you know what he's the reason we're winning or the reason we're losing and I think that's ridiculous I think the the biggest job a manager has is one during a regular season managing players and time and who you pinch hit for and that stuff and then October is where they really make a big difference you see guys hitting the panic button all the time in October you see the guys like Bruce bochi that are cool C and collected that make a big difference I I don't think it it all it matters all that much and again I I'm not saying it doesn't you can have anybody go out there but I think we put a little too much stock in how good a manager is during the regular season instead of blaming the front office and the front office is quick to fire the manager is the first thing that they're going to do instead of looking in the mirror and saying we are the problem so I I wouldn't fire David Bell I I like him I I think he can do a good job I just don't think he's had the pieces around him um it's not his fault that he doesn't have other players on the roster it's not his fault that players get hurt um so I I wouldn't fire him I I like him and I think the front office needs to look in the mirror before blaming anyone else and say maybe maybe we could do more all right we got Ben ver Ben Verlander awesome enough to give us some time here Off the Bench 1410 ESPN Radio chat box sports on YouTube we send you out with this I know we're we're basically out of time but uh Justin berlander was one of the few that I've scene that really had positive things to say about the latest proposal for the six inning minimum uh rule for for pitchers that baseball kind of threw out not too long ago I just wanted you to kind of send us out with with just your thoughts like I said so many people came out with negative uh you know opinions on it Justin berlander was one of the first that I saw that was actually kind of speaking you know for it he's one of the last old school pitchers I feel like we have in this game too so it kind of doesn't surprise me but just your overall thoughts on that proposal when it uh when you came across it for the first time yeah I I think it's heading in the in the right direction uh obviously things need to get cleaned up but I do think the essence of it is yeah starting pitchers should go deeper into games I mean I I think people want that we're not saying they need to go eight Innings but like the day of the opener like nobody looks at a box score and says oh hell yeah the Tampa Bay Rays are starting an opener today let's go and like nobody does that for a fourth or fifth starter either but nobody wants to go to a game where there's an opener starting and there's no chance for a no hitter there's no chance for a dominant outing for a starter so I I do think the game needs to get back a little bit to to the way it was and and game the game every game needs to evolv with the times and unfortunately right now we see pitchers that are going you know less Innings than ever before we see pitcher in pitcher injuries at an all-time high and there there's literally no no correlation to Pitchers going less less deep into games and them not getting hurt as much I mean I talk to John Smoltz on my show every single week he threw a million Innings a year they all did and Tommy John's were not a very common surgery to get I mean you just didn't see it quite as often and they were throwing a ton of innings so part of this is also like hey we need to groom pitchers to to pitch properly I mean the we have a problem in this game if we have a starting pitcher going four Innings throwing 102 milph strike striking out nine guys in four Innings and giving up zero runs and everybody's saying wow great start that was incredible no it's not why no it's not help your team out go deeper into games help your Bullpen uh learn to tone it back a little bit and and I I think part of the reason that my brother is part of the Old Guard and saying like hey let's let's do this is my brother when he first came up could throw 3 miles an hour but he wouldn't do it unless he had to he would start the game throwing 92 to 93 and wouldn't throw harder until he needed to right now you have pitchers coming out of the gates throwing as hard as they can every single pitch spinning the ball as hard as they can every single pitch and that's not good for your elbow and if you say hey you need to go we need you to pitch seven Innings then you can't do that you have to figure out how to pitch to and not throw 100% every single pitch your arm's not meant to to do that and I think this rule if you're not looking at it just on the surface of hey this is dumb why are we forcing this well there's a lot of factors that go into it I think it's heading in the right direction I think we would need to clean up some of the some of the rules and and Optics behind it and 100 pitches or you know all those things that uh I think you need to dive more in on that and whether you lose the DH or not but regardless I'm all on board with pitchers needing to go deeper into games and figuring out a way to do that all right good stuff Fox Sports be analyst host of the flipping bats podcast uh awesome enough to give us some time Ben Verlander Ben you are the man sir thank you so much for fitting us into your schedule we'll talk soon I hope and uh thank you again and enjoy the rest of your week of course thanks guys for having me appreciate it thank you all right all right you got your fantasy draft I know thank you guys for being patient you got members only NFL fantasy draft coming up uh for members only thank you guys for tuning in this has been off the bench presented by United Dairy Farmers