Ward Burton & his 2002 Daytona 500 Win | CROSSROADS PODCAST EP. 001

that's the centerpiece and that's what everybody knows you for so I think we should talk about um the Daytona uh day what do you what do you remember about um what do you remember about 2002 from the start of the day um before you got in the race car to the end of the day when you put your head down on the pillow what what was that day like well uh particularly then you know a lot of people got seriously injured at Daytona more so than Talladega so speed weeks was a long drawn out process uh we would get on the track either Tuesday or Wednesday in preparation for the 125s on Thursday the only day that you didn't practice was on a Friday so you know after the bush race on Saturday you had another practice that's when I knew that we had gotten the balance of that car and that balance of the car made the cow suck in more air and it just really made the car haul the freight and happy hour Saturday evening and it was handling on the money so I went in the back of three different packs uh and went straight to the lead and so we had a good piece and Tommy and crew had it that way Sunday morning you know Jeb you were there you were around a lot of it there's a lot of tension in the motor home lot with the families and and some crew members and just anybody cared about anybody that got in those race cars cuz a lot of people were getting seriously hurt in in the three in all the classes so uh that day was a little nervous for everyone not not me as a competitor and I don't think most competitors well the year before they lost the icon of the sport very true so that's in everybody's fresh everybody's mind and you know changes had started happening uh at that point things like Hans wasn't uh mandated they were mandating how you man the seats and things like that uh better fullface helmets I'm pretty certain what mandated by 2002 but um you know it was was it was a big crowd sold out uh infield was really busy so after drivers meeting you know go back and get a little little bite to eat with y'all and then we'd always uh Ashton was just a little pup at that moment just a couple of months old so uh I know I'm pretty certain that Ashton went to the starting GB but I don't recall I don't recall I remember the gal that was keeping as but I do recall you and mom being there and you know just like it is for you now it's always cool to see what military planes are going to come by the people that you meet at the driver introductions and stand around a car before the event but uh my car really wasn't that good when the race started uh our our mindset was we got to finish first cuz we had to best call in 01 and we were going to dictate who won that race but Robbie Gordon hit me on the backstretch and that took out about 15 of of us so didn't get capitalized on the day that I had the strongest car in the field with leading the most laps in 01 Race So this this race we our balance wasn't as good as the O2 uh excuse me the 01 car and so we really had to work hard on it really I ran at the wall all day uh around mid pack and then we had gotten some track position I was following the 24 and the let's see what was Harvick's number ATT 29 the 29 white car he blocked the 24 four three different times finally Gordon didn't let him get away with it again and uh man I turned that car as much to the left as I possibly could to miss the 29 spinning and and missing that wreck I came on radio and said we just got a shot cuz we knew it was going to happen and we just missed we just missed at least the first big one and it took out a lot of cars you there's a picture up there on the wall just shows how many cars were in that rate so at that point man uh Tomy used a little strategy and we got the car handling the best it had been all day well then right after that wreck was when um I remember when that wreck happened and you got through that wreck then um then there was one more then there was another restart with um or is that that's when that's when y'all raced back right then was it with the 40 so yeah we were still racing back so y'all were racing back after that wreck to the line right with the 40 car or was that a different W that was a different caution so so near the end of the r which was probably less than 15 to go we had a caution and that's when the 24 blocked the 88 no ST Sterling Marin okay he was the uh what was his number my 40 Sterling was 40 Jeff Gordon was 24 yeah I think it was 40 at that time I just remember Dell Jarrett was spinning through the grass yeah behind that and then I think that was a different restart I think that was a restart that uh that when I was leading I'm not sure but regardless uh we did race all the way back cuz that happened going we we were still in third gear when that happened you would get in fourth gear about in the middle of uh one and two and Sterling's uh right front was in bad shape I really was considering should I stay on the outside of him and race back to the line but had no choice but he he he had no choice but to pit so so when they red flagged it uh because they didn't want to finish back then there there was no green white Checker and you kept on having these restarts that they would the race would in so they didn't want it to end on caution so that's why they red flags on backstretch today they just keep on running you around the track and they're going to have a green white tracker right like you do and it's a funny thing so I'm sitting there I'm talking to my crew and I'm trying to figure out cu this single file restart you know I'm on the Dodge team so it's a little bit of a factor of who's going to be around me at the same time we we we want to win but Sterling is Dodge uh so we're going to be line I'm going to be lined up behind him no matter what and damn if Sterling can get out of the car and then looking back on it as he considered and Tony Glover was his crew chief at the time he was really smart guy as he's considering what to do he did the only thing he could do to possibly maintain the lead of the of the race but back then they were this CS a real metal I mean it would have taken a lot to be a p offender off a tire so anyway we inherit the lead and U next thing I know we got a pretty good restart and uh had a fellow Virginia behind me yeah I remember um I remember being in the motor home and on the restart with Sterling racing back Mom was not very happy that you didn't win back to win that little race back back to the line because she thought that was going to be the end of it I remember being in the motor home um and that would happen and then um after you did win I remember we got on the golf cart and went to Victory Lane and then we were there and um that was really special and um I was only 9 years old so I still remember a good amount what happened that day but just you even being that young you can see that how important that race is and um just everything that comes along with it that it was it was like you won the championship that's what it that's what it felt like well it's uh it's interesting your perspective you've never told me that uh about you and your mom um racing back to the line she yelled damn it I remember as loud as she could sitting in the it was close man it was it was really it was really damn close and Sterling kind of Sid drafted me a little bit you know I'm next to the walls it's kind of kind of just sit and duck on that whe what the inside car does but you know uh we were pretty fortunate uh as the restart took Place another line didn't form it kind of started to form Jeff Bodine had missed the so he he was he was a factor uh but when the 21 made a a couple of moves and one and two and down to backstretch he didn't he didn't have enough momentum to get to the outside of me in three and four well there wasn't many cars left so no it wasn't and so you know it's just just like you know how it is when when you've won those RAC Talladega a lot of things can happen uh in a single lap that could be good or bad for you but if you had some more time you can get right back where you where where your car is capable of being but um yeah that was really cool I wish that uh I wish that we'd have had well I wish first that Sarah had been there your sister U I wish that we'd have had the foresight to just at least go get Ash and take a picture uh but um you know through the through the Whirlwind of it all uh yeah Ashton was still a little baby so yeah he was three months old it was it was a special day for for our team and uh our sponsors and everybody's family mine as well but uh man you know I thought I'd had more chances to win more of them I had I had a lot of top five and top 10 at Daytona quite a few with this size of team that we had the the race before that the a Pepsi 400 yeah we had finished uh four fourth so we we we had Tommy was really aggressive with I think he still is I don't know if you see the videos of him but he's still pretty aggressive yeah well he you know that's what that's what every race team particularly then and probably still now need you need to be you know play in the gray area that call would probably a little bit too legal and I don't I don't know it just it just wasn't as fast a car as the o01 car but but once he made the right adjustments it was uh it was a car to be reckoned with we just didn't have it like that all day so when you won the 500 and then um you know you won five races with the 22 car and I would say four of them with with Tommy right Tommy bald so I feel like y'all had y'all had up and down years um but I felt like y'all had a good group and it seemed like things were going pretty good and then things went really bad really fast um so what what do you remember the good parts about you know 98 I would say to 200 beginning of 2003 everything was pretty good we had somehow another lost to consistency that we had in 95 when I first went to Davis with Chris hussy leaving steering the ship Chris good guy he made me haul the Freight in 95 we won the race at Rockingham finished top five inton top five Atlanta uh we had some other top 10 in in the few races that we ran we missed North wilbor so we we had it was kind of glaring at us we had some issues that going to take some resources to address 96 997 we just couldn't get the consistency I mean going back to Rockingham in the fall of 96 couldn't find their own way we had put some more strength bars to stop flexing in the in the chassis I can remember they were cutting them out at the racetrack so my experience with that is it seems like it makes the rear of the car very rigid and the rear of the car is not in the racetrack and you can't touch the gas coming off the corner either is that what the problem was I'm just giving an example I don't know all I know is that we just were Hit or Miss of how we were handling at racetrack so we just didn't have the speed that we had in 95 but we went to a lot of places like Pocono Charlotte I could keep naming some that we were the dominant car we just couldn't find ourselves there at the end of the race we broke a lot of Motors uh who was building the motors I can't remember the guy's name but Bill was doing them inhouse he didn't have a CH he didn't have a Dyno or anything those days are gone so so when Terry elled came on board which I think was probably around 908 Terry started to have more consistency in and a lot less motor failure so I mean Pocono look we could go back and look at least four races the 22s out front can't even see the second place car and we blew motor I think I got in the wreck one time and one and two but I mean we we had some races that we could have easily won another 7 to 10 races in that time frame where we had a car capable of doing not just win and dominate Tommy comes on board and the lad part of 98 and and he was a he was a guy that was from the north modified guy he was but he had been with uh with d Levy in Richmond but he was he was I think what made him so good I was really young but just thinking about it now I feel like Tommy had a Swagger to him and he wanted to come in and make noise and show people that he could do it and I think that's what makes a crew chief really good well yeah I mean some people always got Swagger Tommy God damn Swagger now he had he had uh Tracy and and Jimmy Rollins quite a few other guys that came with him so the the crazy thing is you know if you look at the way that Bill Davis ran his team Charlie Carly was a CEO of MBNA America Dave Bell Jr ran the racing program and all the Outreach and the media they did with the Affinity Credit Card Charlie Carly sat in we Bill Davis and I set in his office Mr Carly said you get him a right crew chief I'll be the highest pay sponsor in the garage he could have moved Chris just down and still part of the team and didn't do it and so the next thing I know uh I had rekindled a relationship with with caterpiller by going on a British Columbia uh uh hunt with some guys with some dealers and uh customers of caterpillar and so knew who to call when MBNA said all right we're out so they were they were leaving just because they didn't switch to crew chief they they were leaving mainly because of uh Bill Davis are not doing some things like that yep so well I mean there's two sides to it I mean I I I understand that he didn't want people to tell him how to run his business cuz it was his business but at the same time I would say um I wouldn't want to lose a partner over it either um so I think that's a fine line a tricky situation it it is and look that's that's the way I recall it that's the way that uh that uh Dave Gina recalls it but Bill has a different perspective as well so I mean at the end of the day bill was doing a lot we were doing a lot with the resources we had and we had some good people on the team so when Tommy showed up he brought a few more good people and with the Swagger and with something to prove which you know like to me Tommy learned real quick I don't care could care less if you have a 100 lb rear spring or 1,000 lb rear spring I don't care you threw anything you want to the kitchen sink at that race car our second race out we finished second at sharp so the 600 or the no it was the fall race it was the fall race yeah cuz Tommy came on board in the louder part of 98 so that was still nbna Yes okay yes still nbna so man you know we uh we hit it off quickly I have always admired and respect Tommy and uh I remember bill bill went to Arkansas one time for weekend off or something and Tommy cut like four bodies off the cars and I thought I thought bill was going to have a hard attacking next Tuesday we were at the shop that he had cut uh bodies off of cars that um was nothing wrong with them but that that was that was the Swagger that's the aggressiveness that we needed to be competitive he wanted to do that to make them better you damn right he was make giving them more downfalls yeah yeah so I mean in in in the performance start to show so yeah and uh man you know I feel like I have that relationship now with my crew chief that no matter what even me and him yell at each other sometimes but um he really cares about the car and um he cares about me and he wants me to do good and he wants to do good so I feel like I have that now yeah well Tommy and I definitely uh yelled at each other at times and I think there were times we both were wrong you know we just that's how much we want it to do well you know we we want it to do good for all the right reasons you know there was a lot of things if you if you look back we were we were doing a lot with what we had one of the things that was always hurting us at some point was just keeping up with the technology you know trying to close the gap between the Pinsky and the hris uh that just had just huge amount of resources and one of those things were like having a well-trained oiled pit crew I mean I can't tell you the amount of races that we affected ourselves and stop from winning races in the pit in the pits and that went on the whole time I was with with uh with Davis we and I'm not blaming anybody for what it just it's a it's a big expense it's a big expense to have separate people that are being trained by a leader that that's what their focus is is is pting the car I mean we lost a numerous races just we lost we lost one at daring that we had a dominant car uh we lost one at Charlotte a lot of times it's a simple thing as just a lug nut but man you know having all of the resources to be able to be competitive every single week and that's not to say and I'm not saying that the driver being and me didn't make plenty of mistakes and I did without a shadow of a doubt but there were just so meantime that we had we had cars and if you look back we were we were in standings at our Heyday I would say with with the ball and Le caterpillar Bill Davis team and our hey day we shouldn't have been where we were at we were excelling in exceeding expectations of being in a top seven or eight with the group that we're with and I feel like that's why the phone would ring for Tommy to go other places and he didn't and the phone ring for you in that time frame to go other places and y'all didn't y'all stayed together and looking back on it it probably would have been better off for both of you to go do something else um we had Yates one time offerers both yeah who Robert Robert offered us Robert Yates yeah both I mean I would have made twice the amount of money and Tommy as well and I can remember Tommy saying you sure you don't think we ought to do it and man you know why why didn't you do that what was the time frame on that what was the year of that I don't really recall I would say 99 to 201 and they were winning championships at the time yeah so I I'm trying to figure out why you wouldn't why you wouldn't take what what kept you and it it's obviously not the cu the creu chief could have came with you so why didn't you why didn't you go do it that was the only one that I recall that happened where he he was interested in both of us if Tommy and I had wanted to shop around our package together we certainly could have we we we were not trying to I would say the reason was it's it's not one factor it's a numerous factors we had finally gotten our mum our confidence with were yall winning you winning well we we're not winning as much as we would like to but we are capable of having good weekends you know particularly the mile and the house I mean with that was a strong suit before technology found a sport that was our strong wrong suit and knocking off top 10 top five particularly top 10 but anyway man you know it's a lot of factors going there it's it's people that work for the race team people that's a part of our team people that are part of Bill Davis racing Bill and Gail the sponsor you know I never could really separate those relationships ship where it's just business and it wasn't friendships I never have you know which is consequently I guess in some cases I maybe have been led to a fault but I've never been a fair with a friend I've never let people purposely down I never will I've never been dishonest to anyone well so so it just didn't seem like it would have been something purely selfish to drive to drive me and as I look back on it now as I look back on it I look at most of the guys that did really good in their career and won a lot more races than I did that's that was their attitude I'm going to go to the top and I don't care how I get there and maybe I should have had some more people around me to to look at racing that way cuz I think I could have had more trophies lined up on this in this basement here yeah I mean if you look at the people that came through the 22 before you both of them went and won championships and they left and it worked out at that time I was pretty comfortable I'm getting paid well so I always got paid well from Davis I I for the most part negotiated my salaries and all that so I was making good money Chevrolet called about the 18 call that was when Jarrett was getting out and going to the 28 that was that was be when Bobby got to ride when Chevrolet told me they called me and said that's what we' like for you to do Mr Dillard had given everything to make it happen in Charlottesville and I just felt like I owed him a lot because that was when I started racing fulltime and I knew right then it's what I should do I just couldn't let the man down did you ever talk to Joe Gibbs no you just talked to Chevrolet yeah Chevrolet was the Chevrolet and Gibbs had talked and that's why they were calling me yeah yeah so if you look at there are two opportunities there that you could have won maybe a championship and that's I think that is um I don't think many people know about those stories and I think that racing then and racing now sometimes the best driver doesn't win every weekend yeah because his equipment won't allow him to do it if you look at look at Kyle Bush and his struggles now we've never seen Kyle Bush do what he's doing right now and that's not a knock at where he's racing right now because that organization is a great organization but it is not what he was in and I think we all know that that that organization is is is at the top they win the most races every year that manufacturer wins the most races every year I mean they got it going on over there and he got out of that ride and look at what has happened this this year last year he won a couple races but this year it's been it's been tough on him so it just shows that even the best guy can't make up for it no and you know our our demise was when when Technology and Engineering was really dictating how these cars felt to a driver whether they were good or bad handling cars and the sidewall construction was changed in' 01 by goody year th those those two changes alone really hurt us at Bill Davis racing and you know because we didn't have the resources we could not stay at the Gap that we were between the powerhouses any longer CU that Gap got larger and larger and larger so you know it's Engineers kind of like what you're experiencing now of your whole day particularly not having a practice on Saturday is going to be dictated of how well y'all do in the Sim yeah the simulators everything and the problem is even like this weekend we get 20 minutes of practice but you can't change a spring you can change a spring rub you can move some Packers around you can't be changing shocks you can do clicks and stuff on shocks you can do a lot of things to make it better but it's still not like if we could change Springs and do stuff because Shane always makes me better on all the adjustments he does and if we could actually have an hourlong practice it doesn't make any sense to me why we don't have practice we go there we waste a whole day on Friday this weekend during Tech we could have an hourong practice versus 20 minutes give us all day Friday to do our thing it it changes no difference on travel it changes nothing besides I think they don't have enough officials well there are other people they can find to work is my thing we put on the show we should be able to practice if we want to practice and we can't go tests you can't do anything we're stuck in a box so it's very frustrating um and it's more expensive I think of not doing that because now all we do is simulator work we guess what simulators cost tens of millions of dollars and you have to have a whole uh Fleet of people to run those things so it's not any cheaper so I wish we could we could practice and and do things I wish that changeed the way the cars built a little bit so they're not so sensitive and somehow or another you got away from all that technology CU it's not making the package on the racetrack anymore well that's never going to happen because the world is so technology driven now I mean even late model stock stuff is pretty much ruined I mean you got to have a cup team to go run late model stock you can't just the days of just building a late model stock in the backyard and just showing up sometimes people get lucky and do it but the guys that win every single week have some smart people working on their stuff they're pulling down their race cars they're doing all kind of stuff that just a blue collared guy I can't do like when you grew up racing you could take a car and show up and go win at South Boston you're not going to do that anymore it's really amazing I mean having drove your car in the orange crush that y'all put on uh at Orange County I mean that car never really was consistent but just how dad gone sensitive they are to little changes when I hear you and Shane talk about one round in the track bar taking the car from one extreme to the other I mean I I don't ever I never drove anything like that we we you got to be perfect now you got to get the right feedback and like this past weekend we didn't make the right adjustments in the Sim and um the front end was not where it needed to be and the rear of the car was too loose in the front end was too tight and the rear of the car was turning the car so then when he tightened the rear of the car up then I'm just tight so I was better off with the rear of the car turning the whole race car so right you can't fix it both it's frustrating but it's part of it it's uh Sports has definitely evolved and like everything else uh technology has found it that's for certain