The Paul Ryder Tapes - Bonus Episode 31: John Robb

welcome to another bonus episode of the Paul Rider tapes we're almost at the end of the run now I can't believe it's been almost a year since we started this my goodness we have a really special guest for you in this episode he is a crucial part of Manchester culture even though he grew up in Blackpool he's had two bands that have had huge cult success the membranes and gold blade as well as being a musician he's also a journalist and a cultural commentator indeed he was a regular on a show that I produced 20 years ago called turn on Terry with Terry Christian that was made for ITV alongside Tony Wilson and he was also the founder of the fabulous music website louder than war and also is the author of a number of brilliant books including his latest which is called the art of Darkness the history of goth he also happens to be a really lovely man who has fabulous skin and an infectious giggle it is of course the legend that is John Rob how are you doing John it's nice to see you yeah it's good to see you so are you good John yeah just really busy they' been books done really well so I've been on our book tour like a never ending book tour excellent excellent well it's really good to see you how long it's been a long time how long's it been about 15 years probably yeah crazy is it yeah probably even longer just have to turn on ter and that was about 20 years ago wasn't it I know yeah it was about 2005 I think or maybe even earlier I don't know yeah I remember Paul always used to say that you had lovely skin do you remember do you remember he did every time I met him I've forgotten about that yeah that's really funny do the Rock and Roll Lifestyle unlike everybody else but you do it differently don't you you do the healthy rock and roll version of it don't you yeah yeah yeah I like to be I like to feel good I don't like to feel [ __ ] so yeah can we start off by talking about Tony Wilson and his influence on the city and in particular with reference obviously to factory and the Monday well with Tony Wilson he was guy that joined everybody together I mean and he tested you as well which you really liked so my personal experience with Tony will be when I was always going home I always cook three passes flat CU I live in Hume for years and every time I see Tony we'd have an argument about pop culture in the street and it could get quite heated sometimes but he never you never fell out with him you know cuz he like debates and he like arguing and that that was good you know that that that's a really good thing about him um I think he's had a lot of energy he was a driving force and he made people meet each other that was they're all key things he did they don't sound like much but they are really important so bit like big things with Tony would be why don't this person meet that person go do that thing which is actually really creative more than anything that creative and also like a lot of those kind of people they they create the uh what do they do what do they always say they create the uh create the playground that play in don't so he by by creating Factory records by creating the house Enda he made the space where all this kind of stuff happened didn't he he didn't not everything in mancher was down to Tony I mean but but having an advantage over any other city was having the local media guy that everybody knew who's into your kind of music you know and I remember before Punk when he was on the Telly and all his denims and long hair used think he's he's like the cool your cool hippie older brother is he and he made you think wow the north is actually quite cool we have like cool people on the tell you know and he seemed to know about music culture and then when he started doing so it goes that was a game changer I think I think more than probably more than anything he ever did that was the key having the Sex Pistols first ever TV appearance in the world six weeks before Bill Grundy was a game was was massive you know where everyone else is kind of worried about what they were putting them on there they were just down the road in granard TV he's got them on the Telly and only kids in the northwest of England could see that we had a six week Head Start over everyone else cuz even as 15 16 year olds we got to see the pistols they weren't just faded pictures in music papers or interviews there they were on the Telly in real life you know that's that's a revolution you know and that was important so when when he started doing FY records I mean that was so key as well thing about FY was because it because it was brilliantly pretentious cuz it had an aesthetic it had an idea it wasn't just putting records out I mean the most telling thing is in it that Tony Funeral is the last Factory number I mean but Factory records is almost a story of Tony's life in a sense and it sign posted all the way through and to have a label in Manchester that wasn't just putting out any old records each record had a reason to it had an aesthetic to it was super important as well and at some point obviously Joy Division are going to end up on that record because Ian Curtis was as smart as Tony you know Ian Curtis had a concept what Joy Division were and they're they're bound to coales at some point and that happened and when Joy Division broke through Sunny Manchester's on the map has been the leading Post Punk city in the world you know so you'd expect London because it had Punk to go to Post Punk could be ahead of the game but Manchester stole a March there you know we already had the buzzcock who one of the greatest of all the punk ons but when Joy Division came through we're 10 years ahead of everybody else you know and that was really inspiring to kids all over the city so what how did you follow it up I mean he had ACR sat 25 really good bands but in a way the Happy Mondays with the Second Great ACT to FY records you know and it it took the genius of Tony to understand that there was something there in a bunch of mad scruffy kids and he saw it he saw there was something there I think he saw he had his own Sex Pistols that's what he really wanted and there was there was a potential for controversy with Happy Mondays but I think he also saw something beyond that as well he saw a sophistication and an intelligence and an artfulness to the Happy Mondays that most other people didn't they were just kind of these this bunch of mad kids who were running around town we used to rehearse next door to in the boardwalk like this is super early this must be about 84 85 you know just when they're coming I mean obviously I know the r sua before that and they were just kind of this mad leery looking gang who were always like they rehearse every single day whatever day you went in there they'd be rehearsing we thought wow these these work really hard because most bands only ever H spot once a month and they're always quite stoned and they always play football on the street on little Peter Street outside as well so that that was quite impressive they they seem just do stuff together on mass all the time and they sounded brilliant when you could hear them coming through the walls they just sounded like some some bizarre avang guard band but didn't see that time bizarre avar bands would look like my band or Captain B farts they didn't look like normal kids it could it's hard to compute in your head that these normal looking Lads can make such weird looking music cuz at that point in time heads dressed like heads I've never seen like like match Lads or whatever normal Lads making music that genius you know but Tony saw that and he got it didn't he super early on like a couple years before that he was on it you know when they played the hassenda one their first gigs second gigs it was the first ones Blackpool I think is it the GPO club which we'd actually played a week before that's the other weird thing cuz I know the GP Club in Blackpool where it's it was like wheel tappers and shunter Social Club I mean the idea that the Mondays played there is quite mental but the weed played there as well and they they didn't really want us in there we were too loud and everything because he just had Comedians and puppet shows or whatever so they play the thing at the Haier then I think probably that's where it's probably Rob as well cuz Rob greton is always lurking in the background somewhere is he I mean I think Rob greton gets written out the story too much he's not so much part of the Monday story but I think um he'd be in there somewhere somewhere some that point but Tony got it and that was amazing thing really instinctive you know you know where most people go yeah that band's good but if I sign him no one's going to get it so I probably won't sign him I'm not sure people like Tony they just go in like a herd of buffalo it's genius I'm signing it if you don't get it tough [ __ ] I'm just going to sign it anyway and that's another brilliant thing about those kind of people they they kind of stake everything on things that most people think just Ain going to work cuz in 84 85 a band like Happy Mondays had zero chance of making it there was there was nothing like him at all they were so original culturally musically what's Their audience they're not they're not really an indie band they're not a this band or that band they're completely on their own it's was a a fantastically odd thing for for Sony to sign but he made sense and also cuz probably luckily for him the culture changed because when all the kids started taking e they got psychedelic heads on them and then they can understand stuff like is as esoteric as Monday you know when you have if you have a psychedelic Revolution on your own it's just you but when everyone else joins it suddenly you're the soundtrack can you talk a little bit about Paul's bass playing how would you describe it how would you define it I I would say that well all great base players are a spine of a band but a really great base player is something else it's it's on top of that so I mean there's there's a lot of really genius factors about the Happy Mondays I mean obviously Sean's lyrics are brilliant and and that weird kind of persona split frontman Persona of Shawn and Bez where basically Shawn hides behind Bez and gets Bez to do all the kind of crazy MC Jagger stuff and he does all these amazing lyrics which they're very key to the band but the want being able to dance to him it doesn't work and the Dan the dancece SP to them one day comes from the Baseline so because he was into Northern Soul he had that and he had that swing thing which is really difficult to get I mean there's a lot of great great base players who don't swing but Paul had a swing to his Base plane so you can dance and also they're really melodic and a lot of the time like a lot of Post Punk and they are kind of Fringe Post Punk the bass guitar is often the most important instrument in Post Punk it's it's like it would some it would swing it would play The Melodies it would drive the band along and the guitar players and it's a great is's a great guitar player but he would play off the base lines instead of leading the sound and it's part of the uniqueness of Happy Mondays is because it's driven by the Bas as well and also because it was he just stood there like Rock Solid just playing the bass it was something the way he stood and the way he kind of moved the way his Persona on the stage really matches the sound of his baselines people slightly older like me we when we played we would run around on the stage you know it's more of an energy thing with the Mondays they didn't move around but they kind of grew moved along in their own little way didn't they so it just be like very lilting Groove but a Groove but the most the groove most energy is probably in the hands going into the vase and that they they are great baselines I mean I did write a track once and he did on down wasn't a zoom there about 10 years ago but he did he did give me a baseline actually it's a really great Baseline just stuck on this track I never really put out in the end and you know it's one that look it did a little five minute job and it was great you know he just swinged it and it was a really good Baseline it was just like this this track I had and I said do you want to stick a base on it and he just stuck a base on it and it was really [ __ ] good yeah I think at the end of the day his Baseline was better than well obviously was better than the track you know I bump into Paul all over town actually you know CU I think one the one of the great things I've always loved about Manchester is the bands all know each other and there's there's not some cities have this really weird competitiveness all the bands hate each other but it never felt like that to me man so all the bands no matter no matter how different you were musically or stylistically there was a commander when I met met him we chat for ages and that you know seeing around every time he met me you said I had really nice skin which is like really unsolid thing to say is it you [Laughter] know and then um one night I was actually when I met him and was walking down oldum street uh and we were chatting away and this really mad psychotic blo was really staring like that and he got nearer and nearer and then he goes I'm going to kill you and he started prodding me in the chest and it's just like this m really mad conversation and it's like like Paul looked a little bit like oh God what's going on and I was thinking what the [ __ ] going on I didn't know this blow was this kind of went off this weird stand off for about 10 minutes but I didn't really want to go away because I was having a conversation so mate I'm just having a chat with me mate here you know and it's and the blow is really staring like he's like a car and Community type character that was just because we happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time probably the craziest thing was he was that intense and in the end after about 50 minutes of really staring while we were still trying to have this conversation he kind of just wandered [Laughter] off like in the boardwalk will you see him you know he's probably um at that time he's probably the most friendly out of all of them you know I think cuz Sha's actually quite shy but they're both quite shy in a weird way you know and I think but Sean's more kind of shy I think Paul was the one who could actually would actually say hello to you I see him a lot of gigs see um bump into like all over the place really can you talk a little bit about being on turn on Terry with Paul and how you felt about him being in the house band well said on Terry is like a series was was it's basically a reviews program on tell which you made and uh Terry was the main host but you changed your guests around every week didn't you so Allison Hammonds was one of the guests and she's like TV gold now I think that was really early days for her Tony was on yeah yeah it was mainly you and Tony Wilson and then we had some rotating people coming yeah including Alison Hammond I mean it's like everybody got a massive great team V career out in the back of it apart from [Laughter] me so I was I was I was on that we had a really good laugh it was great fun to do and it was great having Paul as a house band turn on [Music] your got to watch the show you see the got the remote let's go why don't you turn why don't you [Music] turn going to watch show to watch show show let go [Applause] that's always the old thing about Happy Mondays and it all all those guys in that band they they work really well in Showbiz even though they were quite mad people and quite Renegade people any opportunity of any kind of Showbiz they can do it and it doesn't blemish them a lot of people do kind of show busy things and you know instantly say why why are you doing a cabaret TV thing it wouldn't work would it but with them like sha or bear or Paul you put them into any into that context and they seem complete Naturals that it but I think that's I think comes from the dad don't it because he was cuz he he was writing gags was he for the BBC for about a shilling a gag W he and they were nicking his gags and all that but they did have a weird Showbiz background didn't they like a very Homespun workingclass sford Showbiz background but they didn't phase him did it I don't think with Paul or sha or any of those guys out that band wherever you put them they were just they were just they just carried on being themselves didn't they which always works in in in a Showbiz context don't I met him in a bar in Chicago One Night in this mad bar yeah I just went in there and he was in there they must have been on tour is it New York new music seminar that was and we were up to about 5: in the morning just chatting about stuff yeah I think actually that night I was then them days I I was a bit more off my head and I was way off way more off my head than he was which isn't something you can say often about the Happy Mondays they they knew I'd to have a good time that's for sure yeah it was always nice bumping into him you know he's one of the good guys and that how did you feel when you found out that he died it's sad you know and it felt like you lost somebody it feels like one the clan won the family you know so yeah it was sad really sad would you say it sent shock waves through the Manchester music scene yeah there was a shock in the scene of course it was it was just right out the blue and that you know the musicians have always sadly died quite young not all but you know a lot musicians not not everybody's like mcj or Keith Richards I mean Jesus Christ how the Keith Richards end up being nearly 80 years old that's abely insane isn't it but it's like um you know there there's there's a high mortality rate in being a musician isn't it it's a very stressful life people don't really look after themselves you know it's a lot of people aren't really cut out to you know very talented people aren't really cut out to being touring bands it's not an easy life it looks really easy it looks like the best life in the world and sometimes it can be the best life in the world it's great it's like being on a a ship of pirates going around the world it's fantastic but on the other level it's it's really wearing you know you're jumping time zones just stressed all the time the highs are as stressful as the lows you know people it does burn people out you know and and the attendant lifestyle that sort of comes with it doesn't really do a lot of people any good either so there's a lot of factors that mean that you know a lot of musicians aren't really often going to get to 90 years old unless you're Bruce Mitchell who's going to outlive us all is he I mean Bruce is was he 83 now Bruce is is the only person left in the world who still calls me kid I've not done anything this year because you won't be able to see but this scar here I I wrecked my arm this year I got I ripped all the tendons off my arm so for about uh four five months I couldn't play a bass CU it couldn't stretch me arm out like that I could play guitar cuz can hunch up on it so I had to like take a bit of time out which is really frustrating um cuz that's actually the thing that I like to do that's my main thing but my band's never got Beyond being a cult band so I have to do everything else yeah but you do have huge cult status that's nice and I appreciate that but we didn't have you know going back to the Mondays they had the genius of turning their Madness into pop music you know whereas we never worked how you could turn into pop music and I love pop music as well you know I'm not I'm not really underground artists I'm I'm stuck in the underground but um and I like a lot of underground music but what was great about the Mondays was they distilled somehow they distilled what they were doing those mad jams or into absolutely brilliant pop records you know right from the start you know their their early records of super early ones they were like pop records you know and uh but when they really hit that Groove and having top 10 hits they made it look so effortless and so natural and you're still sitting there thinking but they're actually quite weird you know they're quite a wonky weird band who somehow made it into pop you wouldn't if you were like a major label you would not design a pot bands like the Happy Mondays would you ever and if he had signed to a major label it would have destroyed them I I I think they would have destroyed the major label I don't think you can make the Happy Mondays do anything you know they are what they are and and they all said but they have a brilliant sense of pop that's the thing you know like like Paul's baselines are really catchy like Sea's weird turns of phrase are really pop they they resonate with people don't they you know and it they do make brilliant pop and maybe all the greatest pop is that totally natural thing you know that which we in the nor in the north we're really good at you know I mean obviously bands in London can do it but there countless bands in the north of England could do it in the apart from mine so do you feel like the mundies were completely natural or was there an element of any contrivance oh zero contrivance they they are what they are so even when Paul oeld is mixing them makes them into into more of a pop theme he's he can only work with what he's gotten he's he what he would doing sitting there with his vision of the Happy Mondays which is already the Happy Mondays anyway all he's doing is shoehorning the Happy Mondays back into the Happy Mondays box you know it's like you can't go to Happy Mondays and go what's what's number one the charts now why did you do a version of that that doesn't work you know it's just uh everybody worked with Happy Mondays was working within the framework what the Happy Mondays is you know they already provided the raw template of the pop didn't they so whether it was John kale whether it was Martin hannet where it's Paul loel whether it's Andy weather or you know they're all working within their vision of the Happy Mondays which is the Happy Mondays you can't contrive the Happy Mondays it's it's completely natural I you know what I find it really annoying I I find it annoying that they're not appreciated as much as they should be right nowadays um in the scheme of things they're not as big as they should be they do well I'm not you know they go out and they play those 2,000 capacity venues great you know and then they're always they do second on the builds Primal screen Primal are a great hand and that but the Monday start this whole thing it' be like going to watch the sex pistol support the Boomtown Rats where's the Justice in that there should be headlining these things you know and it's I think I think they got so omnipresent that people forget their genius people just think they're kind of this funny cool band but they don't realize that there's actually an innate genius to what they do but of course you ask them that and they have no idea you if you say to Shan your lyrics are brilliant you just goes know [ __ ] I just make come up there a joke you know and Paul be probably the same the baselines you know that's great BAS I'm just playing the bass I mean maybe those are the best kind of bands the bands that have no no idea of how [ __ ] blin they are and maybe that was a blin Tony the first person who probably walked in the room and go [ __ ] me this actually is genius and the band are going who's this lunatic off the Telly we're not genius we're just messing about but Tony saw it like instinctive thing well they just they see it and they they shout about it really loudly and everyone else goes what are you going on about Tony you know there just a ram shackle mess he goes no they're genius and he'd be the only person in the world who gets it and that to me is a brilliant Talent there's been a lot of talk about the antagonism between sha and Paul do you think that impeded the band in any way or do you think it added to the magic I think it probably impeded in a way then it probably impeded if you're in the band and but Brothers always Brothers love and hate each other that's just the way it is you know I go on pretty well my brother but he's kind of a different version of me but I think with with Brothers you see yourself in your brother so that annoying thing your brother does is actually you so that annoying laugh your brother has is your laugh or that annoying way he tells a joke is is you isn't it that's the bits that annoy each other isn't it when you think it's like a mirror held up to you is it and the probably the bits the bits that are different from you the bits you like generally is it it's like your parents as well it the bits that bug you about your parents all the bits are all very close to you and it and if you're in a band I mean it's it's it's a weird it's a weird world I mean most people go to jobs you know they sit in an office and kind of get on with each other and they do their work and go home and don't see each other but in a band it's 24/7 it's Relentless you you know you go on a five-week tour of America where all British bands split up you're stuck on a tour bus and you you st you do a gig and then you go on the bus you sat next to each other then you get up the next morning then you sat next to each other there's no getting away from it and and it's a very high stress environment and also there levels of attention is it you know it's I mean you know the great thing about the Mondays is that each constituent member is really important to that band I mean G Gaz is is actually very sensitive talented artistic guy but people just think he's just a drummer in the Happy Mondays which must be really annoying for him you know and and and and people just think Bez is just a dancer he's not just a dancer is he he's a conductor he conducts the whole audience you know and it and but obviously the focus will go on Sha and Bez because there's nothing like them in pop culture you know and they are great characters but that must be really hard for Paul you know because Paul and Shan are equally talented in different ways aren't they and the spotlight and it's not it's not like people going to bands just to get Spotlight but people like to get credit for what they do and when the whole story just becomes a story about um you know a couple of members of band doing mad [ __ ] all the time you thinking yeah but I play really good bass or I play really good guitar you think well but it's it's not like that you see you have to understand the media isn't really interested in a bass player or Bass lines or guitar lines musicians are you know people in my world we go oh L to the bass on that it's killer you know God that swings it's amazing but if you're just a mainstream media person you don't even know what the Bas or the guitar the keyboards I have no interesed in that and it's a poison chalice you get in it when you're a musician you know you could be in a in a really big band you could be invisible in a famous band and I understand the frustration of that that people have and I'm not saying that I'm not even saying that's Paul was frustrated with that but I don't understand if he was you know because you in in a classic band and a perfect band like the Mondays each per each constituent member is equally important you know but the way it's treated in the media as a spotlight sort of puts Fades on equally constient important members put puts them in the background which which is it's a drag after 20 years isn't it yeah absolutely how important do you think drugs are to the MonDay Story I mean obviously ease were important and contributed in in one sense but with respect to the mundies and the issues of drugs the fact that it almost destroy destroyed a couple of members of the band how important do you think that has been to their trajectory do you think it's impeded it do you think it's been a positive thing even though it was negative no well I I think the drugs thing was was definitely part of the story you know I think when when the Ean got really massive they were definitely the pie Pipers of the scene wer they was they were they were sound tracking it you know the the Manchester rayon EP to me is the Pinnacle of the Mondays it's an amazing record record and it's such an odd record it kind of wooes and it's weird and when you listen to it and also the live version rot for look if you watch that on YouTube now with headphones on you feel like you're on on E it's got that kind of woozy woo [ __ ] feeling to it they perfectly soundtract and the and in the up period of E when everyone's taken ease and it was brilliant and everyone's having a really great time and it was it was a beautiful period year and a half because this is a comple complexity of drugs is it you know there's there's massive downsides but but the upsides are really up aren't they you know some of the best experiences people have in their lives and some of the strongest relationships that people form are are from when the drugs are good but when the drugs are bad it's a completely different story is it growing up in sford in the early 80s you remember when the riots had happened on the streets and suddenly heroin was super cheap afterwards and everyone's always going yeah what's going on there the government's suddenly all these kids are in a riot two weeks ago all on smack now you know what's government up to you know think can they be that cynical probably you know and it's uh you know and he flooded the the scene didn't you understand like you know when when these when they're in a band that's doing well you know you I always think well what you don't need to take the drugs you're having a great time because course they already were into the drugs because they were coming from a place and time where where was stuff as [ __ ] you know and the only escape from that world was was getting lost into drugs you know and not particularly great drugs either you know and and and it's a different city then Manchester you know like we're sitting here in a sunny day now and this is one of the greatest cities in the world you know which you know let's go back to Tony this city would not look like this if it wasn't for Tony and also Tony would have not would not have that platform if it wasn't for Jo division Happy Mondays it's all part of this thing you know what makes the city amazing now and just behind us you know massive 70 story Towers every cool kid in in [ __ ] Europe wants to live here it's CA of the Mondays and the roses and Tony and the whole story and the music created the City built the city it was the world's first post industrial city and now it's the world's first Post Punk City and it wasn't just Tony Tony had the vision for that but without the Mondays you know that you know he wouldn't have egged him on spurred him on or without the soundtrack you don't get the result but before all that it was a pretty Grim place to live you know I mean well when I moved here from Blackpool though I mean of course to me it was it dead exciting it was like wow is a it's a whole city and it's like loads of different cultures here blackpool's just just white people and that was it coming here was amazing like but but if you grown up here or place like Salford it was a bit Grimmer you know I always lived around the center you know and in town and Hume and that you know where it's it's cheaper to live and stuff and that was a different experience you know but there was a grimness a downside to to Manchester and they only escaped from it was probably drifting into heroin which which which I think to me personally obious say it's just the worst drug I mean no matter how high that drug ever gets you I've never met anybody who came out the other side in a better place it's always it's just a really hard drug to get off but also I think we treat drug addicts not the right way people feel ashamed to be drug addicts and I never look down at any anybody's got a drug problem because it's a weakness it's an illness you know there's nothing wrong with having a weakness you see this we're all Northern males we don't have any weaknesses or if we do we don't tell anybody but there's nothing wrong with having a weakness and there's nothing wrong with being susceptible to be to heroin or whatever you know and but a lot of these guys they were too embarrassed to talk about it you know or or they felt ashamed you know they shouldn't feel ashamed you know they should they should people should encourage them to find help you know or support it should not be punished for it it's not a punishable offense is it you know that the punishment should be dealt out to people who created environments so bad that they only Escape for very smart kids like Paul like sha like be you know once to get into drugs create man drugs you know it's there's kids like that now today you know 16y old kids living in the back into the sford and their only Escape is drugs and crime you know the people create those situations they're the criminals not the people taking the drugs people taking the drugs of the victims you know and we should look after them because they're our brothers and our sisters aren't they that's absolutely spoton I absolutely 100% agree with you I would have helped Paul but um there's nothing worse than somebody you know saying you know what you shouldn't retake drugs cuz just you just sound so patronizing don't it just come down the gym with me you know a few of my mates in the gym they were ex- heroin addicts and they just got addicted to exercise instead you know everyone's got an ad dict to personality you just you just have to find something doesn't do you in side to me actually alcohol is the worst drug you know I think alcohol causes violence you know people going home beating the wise up it causes more deaths than any drug Other Drug ever does and and because it's regal and because it's quite insipid and it creeps up on you more people I know I problems alcohol than any other drug puts go I I would legalize all drugs but I would have them that you you had to get you had to get them with maybe on a script or some advice or some backups you had you had somewhere to fall back down on you know cuz people take them anyway having them illegals made [ __ ] all difference but I would encourage people not to take drugs it doesn't make you rock and roll if you take drugs I've done drugs when I was a teenager and had a great time you know I was more into Luci genics when we took magic mushrooms we we didn't walk around down the middle of a j carriageway taken knew that would probably go wrong we just went to our mate's house who who had a he only he he had a dad who was really deaf and had no idea what we're all doing about 10 of us taking magic mushrooms playing Records full blast can that's what we used to play used to play can albums and we didn't even know that they're dead cool now but we had no idea they were cool they were just really great to listen to magic mushrooms and that was another band that influenced the Happy Mondays cuz I could hear it in happy month I think wow how bizarre they you know like you never met kids like that who were into can in Blackpool anyway you know and you could hear like Paul Paul was M into can you could hear on his Bas and everything you know in the grooves they the music they listen to was so crazy you could hear in all the tracks this really weird mixture of influences that somehow sounded completely different they made it they sort of made it into the Happy Mondays didn't they do you remember the day when Factory went under was that a very important time would you say I remember the day very clearly when Factory went down I went down to the factory building I was I was there you know I was watching it was it covered in Monday's posters or was it covered in New Order posters about a month later W it I was disappointed really I mean I could see it com in my mate was actually an account one of the accountants around Factory and he knew that was it was in a whole um I what I wanted and what I wanted Tony to do and of course I it's a lot easier for me to say because I don't have to do it but I wanted a northern music business I thought I I did have a meeting Tony said we should have a northern music paper as well based up here why why do I have to go to London to present all my ideas to London music papers who didn't really I mean I was lucky I wrote for sounds and they let me write about what I want and they were brilliant people but some of the other papers they used to look on northers as all being stupid when I went to Mage maker they used to do impersonations of your accent behind your back like you were stupid nor us like we talk like that we're really stupid because we don't talk in public school accents it's like crazy wasn't it you know but I want to Tony and why I don't know why should he have to do this but why can't we have a northern music paper of course it's it's hard work setting up U any type of type of media you know even then you know you you they always go bust in the extra papers but what would have been a brilliant thing if you had nor music paper a northern major record label and the whole thing I think maybe Tony should have listened to Mike Pickering a little bit more because Mike Mike was blin I think Mike's the guy who gets written out this whole story you know he's in the Monday stories well of course but he was a guy who played Aid house first of the H and uh he booked all the bands in there he booked all the DJs in there he brought Kylie manogue didn't he to a factory he said why don't you sign Kylie manogue which is total genius you know why can't Factory have a pop side to it as well and it probably would have saved the label there a few other things you tried to bring in there as well and that's when he went to where set up deconstruction instead wasn't it you know and I think um and I I'll always big up my Pickering because because he knows his music and he knows his [ __ ] you know but he's he's too humble to take the credit you know so I thought maybe that's one of my jobs as a writer I I I have to tell the truth don't I say it is the narrative isn't that little tiny narrative that big there there's somebody else over here somebody else over here we got to talk about these other people as well so that was my disappointed Factor going down I thought I thought there's an an opportunity to create a northern music Powerhouse for on of a better world which which we have now you know it's it's here now is it you know the new Factory building which they given some stupid name that nobody can remember there's so many bands here what those guys NQ records are doing you know they doing Grime and rap but they're building on a factory style model you know and um it's here now we got it we got we had the thing that Tony could have done 20 30 years ago but it's it's it's a lot harder to actually do it than sort of talk about it you know it's really funny you should say that because for years I wanted to approach Tony with the idea of setting up a television arm for factory you could do it now you know you probably you you probably should just come back to Manchester you know because it's it's not the city you left now it's quite weird as a joke I've got some friends who's setting up a radio station here I've been showing them around today and they go wow what this is not what's happened to Manchester ago well it's La Now isn't it it looks more like La than Manchester you know the center it's it's it's it's one of the main cities in Europe it's not like this cocky City that thinks like a little dog thinks a big dog it actually is the big dog now it's one of the 10 major cities in Europe you know Berlin Paris London Manchester you know it's not like it's not like Tony Tony Tony's brilliant because he big the city up all the time but he wouldn't have to do that now it onlyy somehow came back now and walks around people go put blindfold on him freak him out the second round the center took the blind hold up fold off said look at these massive buildings Tony go why knew they'd be there he'd be totally unshocked you know whereas everyone else goes who hasn't been here for a year goes what the [ __ ] this is a completely different place yeah it is but Tony in his head thought he'd looked like this already I'm I'm really glad you give me a chance to celebrate their genius The Collector genius the Mondays I think they're an amazing band all the way across the board each constituent person in them and and the dad you know I he's key part of it really and the whole thing and they start the whole thing didn't they the rosies were amazing because they distilled it into that amazing first album you know it's a beautiful record but without the Mondays that record probably would never have existed in the same way at all you know they would tell you that the the Mondays with the game changers right across the whole scene you know I was think about that as well with Brit pop which I made up the term Brit pop but Brit but um that would not have existed without the Mondays as well they changed the whole culture and they don't get the credit for it because Brit poot was basically London doing Manchester four years after Manchester W it but they did but you can't copy the Mondays that's why apart from flowered up who did their London version of it very few bands could do a direct copy of the Mondays because it's so idiosyncratic and so original you can't it's impossible to copy you you have to be you can only they can make that music whereas you could do a version of the Roses it might not be as good but but because they're a bit more traditional in a sense that you could do versions of them but I mean how do you copy the Monday it's impossible isn't it didn't you write about big AR when Paul was involved in that I remember writing about that yeah I thought big Alum was good but I think it a difficult time to do it w it because I think again a lot of music's timing as well you know the Mondays probably would never have made it until everybody started taking e you know there was people just didn't understand what they were doing till everyone everyone was as wonky as they were and then it all start to make sense didn't it so with with big arm it's just it's there was a really good band but you can't always make the music scene go your way can you I know that full well you know I've been doing this 40 years and it never goes in my direction but doesn't actually measure what it doesn't it's not a measure of how good or band your good or bad your band is you know you can only ever do your thing and hope that people get on to it that's that's every B will tell you that in a way it was good that the Mondays put the proper line up together again and went back out on the road so so everybody got a Payday or a or a sense of respect you know because it must have been good even though they still don't get as they never get as big as I think they should be you know get to 2,000 people a night for playing all your old hits is still pretty good you know it's still a great party you know thank you so much John nice one an really appreciate you doing it no thanks for asking all right bye that's all we got for you this week please join us again same time same place next week if you want to listen to next week's episode in audio form it's dropping now on all of the podcast platforms thank you to to our amazing patrons you know who you are and of course to the Sunday Club who always join the chat on YouTube as the episodes Premiere we're playing out with the Giani paneton AKA John Pennington remix of big arms Sunrise which is a Fab summer tune have a fabulous week everyone big thanks to Manchester's legendary John Rob and of course to the big man himself the great Paul Anthony Ryder lots of love bye [Music] m [Music] got a suitcase full of D not sure where to go it's going to be hot that's all I know got a long long way to go with my case full of d where I'll stop I do not [Music] [Music] [Music] know sunshine [Music] it I know I'll Stand For You in 9 days time I'll be your dog and you can be my Sunset no stoping me now I'm on the [Music] moon it Sun Sun sunsh here it [Music] come here it here it [Music] just arrived with my case full of d a Jamaican Beach is now my home I wanted HS that's what I got at Jama Beach is now my heart [Music] sunsh here it goes [Music] it [Music] Sunshine here it come sunsh here it comes Sunshine here it [Music] comes sunsh here it comes [Music] [Music] glistening Productions