‘Nobody’ is talking about the US’s rising debt: Steve Ballmer

NEIL: YOU KNOW, I HAVE A FEELING THAT STEVE BALLMER, THE FORMER HEAD OF MICROSOFT, ONE OF THE FOUNDERS, IF YOU WILL, PROBABLY DOESN'T LIKE IT WHEN BOY SHOW THAT VIDEO. MORE THAN 20 YEARS AGO. THE REASON WHY I LOVE IT, IT SAYS A LOT ABOUT STEVE BALLMER, THE FACT THAT HE WAS VERY UNCONVENTIONAL, EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL CEO, ARGUABLY ONE OF THE BEST THIS COUNTRY'S EVER SEEN. HIS PASSION IS KNOWN BEYOND WHAT WAS GOING ON AT MICROSOFT IF, BUT MORE IMPORTANT ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN THIS COUNTRY. HE'S NOT JUMPING AND WHOOPING AND HOLLERING ON THAT THOUGH BECAUSE HE'S MUCH MORE CONCERNED WITH NUMBERS THAT AMERICANS SIMPLY CANNOT GRASP OR GET IN AN EASY-TO-FIND VENUE. FORMER MICROSOFT CEO JOINING US RIGHT NOW. STEVE, VERY GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK. >> GREAT TO BE HERE. THANKS, NEIL. NEIL: AND I ALWAYS DO LOVE THAT VIDEO BECAUSE IT IT SHOWS YOUR PAX, AND -- PASSION, AND YOU WERE VERY ANIMATED ABOUT IT. BUT YOU'RE NOT REALLY HAPPY PASSIONATE ABOUT SOME OF THE STUFF WE GET FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND HOW PEOPLE CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE GOVERNMENT. WHAT'S YOUR BIGGEST CONCERN? >> WELL, I TRIED WHEN I FIRST RETIRED BACK IN 2014 I WAS WORKING WITH MY WIFE ON HER PHILANTHROPY, AND I KIND OF HAD THE GENERAL VIEW SINCE WE FOCUSED ON KIDS AND FAMILIES WHO MIGHT NOT OTHERWISE HAVE OPPORTUNITY, I WAS FOCUSED IN ON WHAT THE COUNTRY REALLY INVESTED IN THESE POOR FAMILIES. I HAD NO WAY TO SUSS THAT OUT. THE NUMBERS WEREN'T CONSOLIDATED IN ANY REASONABLE WAY. I STARTED OUT TO TRY TO DO THAT, I DECIDED OVER TIME IT SHOULD BE LIKE A 10K REPORT THAT BUSINESSES HAVE TO FILE WITH THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION WHICH MEANS NEUTRAL, IT'S NOT ARGUING FOR A POINT OF VIEW, IT'S GOT TO BE LONG-TERM, EVERYTHING'S TO BOT TO BE IN THE CONTEXT SO THAT YOU COULD THIS THEN FORM YOUR OWN OPINION AS SHAREHOLDERS DO IN A COMPANY ABOUT WHAT TO THE GO DO. I'M NOT GOING TO BE JUDGMENTAL ABOUT WHETHER WE'RE IN GOOD SHAPE OR BAD SHAPE, BUT I THINK WE CAN IN CERTAINLY THE MATERIALS WE PUBLISHED, SOME NEW VIDEOS WE CAME OUT WITH BEFORE THE ELECTION, THEY PAINT A STORY AND EVERYBODY CAN ASSESS THAT DIFFERENTLY. NEIL: ONE THING THAT WE CAN, I THINK BIPARTISANLY THERE'S SUCH A WORD, ASSESS IS THAT DEBT KEEPS PILING ON, RIGHT IN AND BOTH CANDIDATES HAVE PLANS THAT THAT WILL ADD TO THAT DEBT DEPENDING ON IF YOU BELIEVE THE FIGURES ATTACHED TO THEM. A WHARTON OR SURVEY SHOWS IT GOES UP ALMOST $2 TRILLION UNDER KAMALA HARRIS OR ALMOST $5 TRILLION UNDER TRUMP. NO WAY TO KNOW FOR SURE, BUT TO GET BACK TO THAT NOTION OF A GOVERNMENT THAT GETS BIGGER AND THE MONEY THAT'S COMING IN TO PAY FOR THAT, I JUST WONDER HOW THAT ALL WORKS OUT. >> WELL, WHEN YOU GET RIGHT DOWN TO IT, I WON'T MAKE FORECASTS, BUT LET'S LOOK AT SOME BASIC FACTS. THE COUNTRY TOOK IN ABOUT $4.4 TRILLION IN REVENUE IN THE LAST YEAR. WE PAID OUT $6.1 TRILLION IN REVENUE. $1.7 TRILLION DEPENDING HOW YOU LOOK AT IT AS A PERCENTAGE OF TAX REVENUE IS ABOUT 40%. SO STRIKES ME AS A LOT, BUT EVERYBODY CAN DRAW THEIR OWN OPINIONS. THE PROBLEM IS WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE SPENDING, YOU KNOW, MANDATORY SPENDING -- SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICARE, MEDICAID, VETERANS' BENEFITS, THINGS THAT THE POPULATION EXPECTS,I MIGHT SAY -- IF I MIGHT SAY, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, AS A TOTAL ACCOUNTS FOR LET'S SAY 60%. YOU ADD IN THE DEBT, I THINK MOAT PEOPLE WOULD THINK OUR COUNTRY -- MOST PEOPLE WOULD THINK OUR COUNTRY SHOULD PAY ITS DEBT. THEN YOU ADD IN MILITARY AND YOU ONLY HAVE ABOUT A TRILLION OR SO LEFT. AND SO THOSE ARE THE PLACES WHERE MANY PEOPLE WOULD LOOK FOR CUTS. I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S EASY TO FIND THE KINDS OF CUTS THAT PEOPLE MIGHT WANT IF YOU'RE TRYING TO GET BACK TOWARDS A BALANCED BUDGET. NEIL: THEREIN LIES THE RUB, RIGHT? YOU'RE RIGHT, THAT'S WHERE ALL THE MONEY IS, AND THE MONEY THAT HAS TO BE ADDRESSED. I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS AS HIGH AS 600% FIGURE THAT YOU ALLUDED TO -- OF 0%, BUT THE FACT IS NEITHER CANDIDATE RIGHT NOW DARE WANTS TO CROSS THAT THIRD RAIL. WE HAVE A PROPOSAL BY DONALD TRUMP NOT TO TAX SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS, NOT TO TAX OVERTIME, NOT TO TAX TIPS. ALL WELL AND GOOD FOR THOSE AUDIENCES WHO LOVE TO HEAR THAT KIND OF STUFF, BUT SIMILAR GIVEAWAYS BY THE KAMALA HARRIS CAMP. IN OTHER WORDS, IT'S VERY EASY TO PROPOSE TAX CUTS AND DEALING WITH THINGS THAT COULD MAKE IT MORE OWN YOUS -- ONEROUS FOR THESE PROGRAMS DOWN THE ROAD. I'M JUST WONDERING HOW THAT SORTS OUT, BECAUSE IF WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT ALL THE MONEY GOING OUT AND A LOT LESS MONEY COMING IN, IT'S NOT REFLECTED IN POLLS. THE DEBT AND THE DEFICITS THAT PILE UP YEAR AFTER YEAR DON'T SEEM TO BE A WORRY FOR AMERICANS. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT? >> WELL, LET ME SAY THE FOLLOWING: AGAIN, EVERYBODY'S ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN OPINION. ON THIS ONE I'LL SHARE MY OPINION. I WORRY ABOUT OUR INCREASING DEBT AS A PERCENTAGE OF OUR G CAN DP. IF -- GDP. IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE COMPANIES, THERE'S COMPANIES THAT LIVE WITH A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF DEBT FOREVER. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT DEBT, IF YOU WILL, AS A PERCENTAGE OF REVENUE OR PROFIT, IT CAN'T JUST KEEP GROWING. AND RIGHT NOW WE'VE GOT AN ECONOMY, OR CALL IT $27 TRILLION, WE HAVE DEBT AT $35 TRILLION. YOU KNOW, BEING OVER 100%, IT'S THE HIGHEST OUR DEBT HAS BEEN AS A PERCENT OF GDP SINCE WORLD WAR II, AND I THINK PEOPLE ACCEPT WE HAD SOME SPECIAL EXIGENCIES IN, YOU KNOW, DURING THE WAR PERIOD IN TERMS OF WHAT WE NEEDED TO SPEND. SO IT DOESN'T POP, I UNDERSTAND IT DOESN'T POP. IF YOU LOOK AT PEOPLE PERSONALLY, THEY WANT MORE. GOVERNMENT CAN GIVE IT TO TO 'EM IN TERMS OF HIGHER SPENDING ON THEM OR ON LOWER TAXES. BOTH PARTIES SEEM TO HAVE SOMEWHAT DEFERENT VIEWPOINTS ABOUT HOW TO GET THERE. BUT THIS NOTION OF, HEY, LET'S AT LEAST MAKE A DENT IN THE GROWTH IN DEBT AS A PERCENTAGE OF GDP, I AGREE, DOES NOT COME UP IN THE DIALOGUE. AND I DON'T, AGAIN, I SPEAK NOW NOT AS A PROVIDER OF FACTS, BUT AS AS A CITIZEN, NOBODY THINKS IT'S GOING TO BE A BIG ISSUE IN THIS ELECTION. NEIL: WELL, YOU ARE A CITIZEN, BUT YOU'RE ALSO ONE OF THE RICHEST GUYS ON THE PLANET, AND YOU PROBABLY HEARD FROM CANDIDATES -- AND THIS IS ROUTINE, TO SAY THAT BILLIONAIRES, GUYS LIKE YOU SHOULD PAY MORE. AND I'VE GOTTEN BACK AND FORTH INTO THIS WITH BOTH SIDES, WHAT REPRESENTS A FAIR, A FAIR SHARE OR THE RICH PAYING A FAIR SHARE. WE USED TO HAVE A TOP RATE, STEVE, AS YOU KNOW 90%, 70%, IN AND AROUND TO 37-39, 40% TODAY. BUT WE GO BACK AND FORTH ON THAT, AND THE OLD SAW IS THAT THE RICH AREN'T, AREN'T DOING ENOUGH. I KNOW YOU'VE HEARD IT MANY TIMES, BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT IT? >> WELL, IT'S JUST, HOOK, IT'S SOME NUMBERS. 76% OF INCOME TAX NOT INCLUDING SOCIAL SECURITY, SALES, PROPERTY TAXES, BUT 76% OF FEDERAL INCOME TAX IS PAID BY THE TOP 20% OF TAX-PAYING UNITS, FAMILIES, HOUSEHOLDS AS WE MIGHT THINK IT. AND THOSE ARE PEOPLE, THOSE ARE FAMILIES WITH OVER $160,000 OF HOUSEHOLD INCOME. NOW, WILL THAT FULL SET OF PEOPLE FEEL AFFLUENT ENOUGH TO ABSORB MORE AB TAXES? -- ABSORB MORE TAXES? PROBABLY NOT. BUT IF YOU WANT TO SUBSTANTIALLY INCREASE TAXES, YOU MAY HAVE TO GET TO THAT BROADER GROUP. YOU KNOW, WOULD I PERSONALLY BE HAPPY AND WILLING THE PAY MORE TAX, YES, I WOULD. BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ME PERSONALLY. I CAN'T SPEAK FOR ALL PEOPLE WHO ARE SUPER AFFLUENT AS I AM. NEIL: ALL RIGHT. WE'LL WATCH WHAT H