Al Leiter Talks Son’s MLB Debut, Pitching Injuries | Ep. 98 | The Show Podcast

John we're joined by somebody we do a lot of television with over the years and we covered as a player with both New York teams that's alider yeah I'm really looking forward to talking to Al here on the podcast and this great timing for Al because all these pitching injuries his son just called up had the debut we'll talk to him about that his nephew Mark ligher becoming a star now with the Cubs so a lot to talk about with Al and should be great fun lots to talk about with Al and John I'm going to ask some questions of you about the white socks about the Astros about the two New York teams we'll play hit and error at the end if you stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and John hang J I had jury duty this week thankfully it only lasted a day I think the wood benches at 100 Center Street were a torture device uh at the turn of last century and they've just decided to uh keep them there uh it's why we're going a little later this week uh I thank everybody involved in the show so that we could still do it uh uh but John on the subject to torture I I wanted to ask a few questions of stuff we've seen one of them is about the Chicago White Soxs who I believe as we're doing this are three and 21 are we about to see a team lose more games than the 1962 Mets 120 losses well they're on Pace to win 20 games which is half of what the 62 mats won 40 games so they're on Pace to do it but no we've seen this before we've seen this happen obviously they have a lot of stars that are out now good players uh Luis Robert the most prominent one monata they missed himz for part of that them obviously they are a terrible team they can't hit they're last in Ops they're Last by a long shot in runs they are awful they're worse than the they are probably even worse than the Rockies but it takes a lot to lose 120 games not going to happen do you know that the two worst winning percentages in history for since the modern game since 1900 right now would be the 125 winning percentage of the white socks followed by the 231 winning percentage of the 2024 Marlins by the way the Rockies are fourth at 240 so we're we're watching some really crap baseball out of some teams this year and John I talked to an executive the other day and he I asked the EXE the executive do you think they'll lose 120 he said I believe in the theory that you automatically win 54 and lose 54 and it's question if they about the other 54 you said now I think they might go 0 and 54 in those but they would still win 54 games John you know what worries me about them they don't do anything well and like you mentioned Luis Robert he's goingon to be out a while and when he comes back aren don't they have to be compelled to try to make thean sto trade with him so like their one great player maybe they'll wait till the offseason to do it but they traded ceas when they had a moment to do it Andrew benen looks like he forgot how to play baseball it's not good by the way my question two right now the 16th worst winning percentage since 1900 belongs to the Houston Astros right right so I'm assuming that's going to get a lot better as the season goes along nevertheless they're 10 games they're 11 under 500 right and 18 as we're talking it's only 25 games they're starting to get some pitching back uh verando last week frambo Valdez is coming back this week do they get to the playoffs you know I don't think so but that's a good question they they have a shot I talked to Dana Brown their their GM a seon hall a graduate he was a player there with bio and vaugh and he's now there GM and uh he professed that uh you know they're not giving up they've got a shot and I I get it I mean this is a team it's been the LCS seven years running certainly bregman is a lot better than this I am worried and I think he is as well about a Bru uh former white sock he looks like he may be done unfortunately had a great career uh they may have to call up the kid I think he name L perfo he's got 12 home runs in the miners give him a shot but I mean I think they've been incredibly unlucky to this point you've never seen a situation where every basically every one of their starting pitchers has been out for some degree uh really incredible and they're still still going to be waiting on Garcia McCullers or KY um I mean it's an epidemic but it's hit the Astros harder than anybody and I think it's while they're only six games out and nobody's started great there I think it's a little bit difficult to recover from seven and 18 I think only team two teams have ever made the playoffs some s and 17 one being the miracle Braves was that 1914 that's even before my time but uh I'm gonna say no but I'm not giving up oh yeah you mentioned the other guys Blair hen Henley JP France Hunter Brown Spence arag Getti I hope I pronounced that right they started 14 games they're personally 0 and 10 with a 960 70 R the Astros a one and3 in those 14 games so obviously getting verland back Valdez uh look I you mentioned six out I kind of still think Texas is really good and I think it's going to be hard for them to win the division and I'm just sitting and looking at an AL East where every team is 500 or best will all the wild cards come out of that division making it even tougher for the Asos even if they get their act together to get to the right number to get in on the subject of getting in my question number three John after a month of information the Mets are 13 and 11 do you think they're a playoff team I think they're a contender uh you know I don't think they'll make the playoffs but uh you know I think they're a solid team I think that David Sterns was correct that they are playoff caliber team they may get in if you had to ask me today and you just did whether they're going to get in I'm going to say no but uh not by that much I mean uh you know obviously Lindor that was a great sign the two on runs yesterday uh I mean batty looks much much better at third base um you know obviously I don't think we were expecting this from Reed Garrett but he's been tremendous and then combined with Diaz at the back end and ovinos look very very good as well uh they're both pen looks solid or better than solid so uh they got a shot but I hate to be negative I'm going to say not quite I'll give a little love to Jeremy Hefner he was talking Reed Garrett to me like the second week of spring training that he thought they had something with him uh so I'll mentioned that uh John I'm surprised a little bit that their defense you mentioned batty has played their overall defense hasn't been great uh I assume Lindor and nmo will give them a lot more than they've given them to now you know Batty's bad it's funny last year we went through this with Alvarez and vulpi where there was real questions about their defense and their defense was superb and it was their offense that had some real question marks it felt like that a little bit with batty early this season I assume again that that he'll hit it's going to be a traffic jam between about 84 and 88 wins for that second and third wild card I think the Mets will be in the jam but uh after a month if I just had a guess I would think that they kind of fall just short of it uh I'm continue to be worried about when they get SGA back and what version of SGA they get after a shoulder injury on the subject of a New York team John to wrap up this uh first block here on the podcast the Yankees do you think they're going to win the division based on what you've seen over this first month you know I picked the Orioles I tend to stick with my predictions they've been pretty comparable to the Yankees so far Yankees have been better than I thought they they obviously Soto has made made a huge difference I don't think we're expecting this from Cabrera uh the pitching the starting pitching all those question marks are basically being answered in the affirmative I think strowman's been fine uh rodan's been better than fine um Cortez has been fine um Cole will be coming back I do believe uh around June 1st so a lot of positives around the Yankees but I mean the Orioles are just I mean everybody they call up now I understand that uh holiday is struggling the top prospect in baseball but I mean curs that now up I mean he was as good as cowser in spring training they just have so many great young players uh I think I just think they're the better team I I could be proven wrong I may end up with egg on my face but uh I think Baltimore is just ter they won 100 plus games last year right and everybody s assumed the Yankees were going to run away with it or certainly win the division for some reason I think orol are great they really are yeah I picked the Orioles I would stick with the Orioles right now you know if I was going to give a little more love to the pairing um that's no longer together John Sterling and Susan Waldman will you say that's baseball Susan the worry coming out of spring training with the Yankees is what about their starting pitching without Co and they're starting pitching has been great 301 ra it's the third best in the majors I think it's so vital that the Five Guys kind of just stay healthy to get to Cole and they've gone round and round now you know how quick that could happen where you lose a guy or two but the fact that they've been durable through a month uh all have made their four or five starts to date Luis heel has been good you know still having some walk issues but the stuff when it's over the plate is pretty close to not hitable uh he's been terrific I will say this John you mentioned uh Cole for June 1st as we're speaking here it's April 25th he hasn't been off of a mound yet I assume he has to go through something that looks like a six week spring training I it's it's a little bit like s and they kept giving me timelines and I kept asking people in the know and they were like yeah just ignore the timelines kind of thing and uh he ended up on the 60-day iil I think would both New York teams right now sign up for July 1 for these two guys considering they're not they're not off the mound even and it's almost May yeah I don't know what to make about Singa but I mean when I've seen Cole he felt pretty good about June 1st and I know it's late April uh you could do spring training in less than six weeks weeks I think I you know I I I think I still think that June 1st or thereabouts is a possibility so I I don't think the Yankees would with the Mets I it's kind of a mystery so I'm going to say that they probably would sign up for July 1 at this point we haven't really heard any real timetable with him so uh I think July 1 will be fine for them on the subject of pitching uh one of our favorite guys to talk with over at the MLB Network one of our favorite guys to cover when he was both a Yankee and met was Al lighter he joins us next on the [Music] show John and I are so happy to be joined by one of our colleagues at the MLB Network Al ligher three-time Champion World Series champion two key player on two of those and obviously a key player on the 2000 Mets who won the NL championship and played in the subway series against the Yankees Al uh thanks so much for joining us uh I think there's a myriad of reasons to talk to you but obviously your son jack made his debut last week for the Rangers I think they showed you on television more than Jack during that uh that broadcast and you said something leading up to this while we were off air that kind of leads to a question I want to ask and I was going to ask it even beforehand which is you love to talk pitching uh and you said you love to mix it up what is the fine line when you when it's somebody with your DNA you love Jack lighter and but you where do you intercede and not intercede when there's coaching going on I'm sure there's a fine line there because there's probably nothing you like to do more than talk pitching and probably few things you love the world more than Jack lighter great question Joel Hi hi hi um John this well um so that was awesome uh unfortunately I say unfortunately but uh amazing experience right he he found out uh two days before and uh unfortunately for him the line wasn't great but the stuff is there and as I continue to uh share with him um you know it's a craft and a Nuance right I mean here's a kid who's got you know exceptional stuff but you you know there's pitching and I constantly remind him you know watch the guys with lesser stuff and really pay attention to what they're doing right uh you know how many 2021 fast balls are they throwing if they are is the command impeccable how many 3-2 breaking balls do you see how many 2 change UPS do you see um they're pitching you know Max sherzer pitching in a u in a rehab start at Round Rock last night and that was kind of what I alluded to with Jack just on in that little snapshot Joel but it is much more difficult for me you're right I do like to I do love pitch I do love talking pitching I really do I I did as a player uh I thought it was important as as a fellow starting pitcher on my staff whether I was doing really well or not was to engage with the guys hey what did you see what did hey Joel you pitched two nights ago what did you see with his swing hey John you're pitching tomorrow we're similar what do you got you know and that thing you know it it's the Genesis of a lot of other potential tentacles to maybe you pick something up right so um I'm careful with Jack because of what I did Joel and I never wanted him to pick I I want I I dreamt of him being Robin ventur I really did get dirty dive you know preferably a left-handed hitting third basement right play every day you can hide there often go 0 for four maybe with a walk you know and you played okay um you get on the bump you know it's all on you you guys know that um covering as long as you have and no baseball so unfortunately had a good arm it is much more difficult for me to be honest and I'm I'm being honest I to really tell my son what I think sometimes because I don't want the love of a father son to get in the way of something like baseball or pitching even though it's his livelihood and it was my livelihood so I am way more honest and direct with other picturers than I am my son I'll be honest and I'd love him more I I mean you know my family my kids but um so I'm careful and it's a little frustrating because some of the things and he's in a great place he's he's in a really good place right now uh but when I heard some things that's being you know suggested to him you know I I don't say anything I'm just say oh you know and I and I try not to react but uh and I'm careful how how I get the a point or a message across either through a surrogate of somebody else or uh I just let him get the bumps and bruises it's a sport as you guys know it's a sport of in security it's a sport of failure and you have to go and experience it you can't be talked about it well this is what's going to happen and this is how you should react you just got to do it Jack obviously is extremely talented number two pick overall I watched that game he was throwing 96 he seemed to be hitting the corners they were hitting him obviously uh and he was sent down after the game so uh where do you think things stand right now and tell us what what you think I know you don't want to say too much to Jack but where do you think things stand now and how was that for you to see that because I'm sure you were sat in a lot of uh stands where he was dominating forever U yeah so it's been hard Joel uh uh John because um you know you guys have kids and you know whether they're whatever they're doing and Performing and whatever they do in life it's you know the the feeling and the emotion is what it is and in my case I go to a place of somebody who was lucky and grateful enough to have experienced 19 seasons in the big league so I pitch along with the guys I pitch along with the guys when I watch on MLB Network or you know flip on the S network or SNY I'm like I immediately know what they're going through so I I I turn on that like what would I do like how would I pitch oh yeah I saw that is he gonna throw that you know and it's just that's where my brain goes um Jack's good he's in a good place obviously the results uh you know they are what they are I got an amazing amount of texts it's unbelievable ex-managers and players and guys I never you know have spoken to in a long time um that responded what I knew was going to happen is funny one of my texts and I've got I I it was amazing the the uh you know the people reaching out including you two guys uh Rick Cerrone my the catcher my catcher for my debut in 1987 was Rick sone with the Yankees and Rick we were going back and forth and you guys know Rick he's got big personality fun and um you know I didn't Shake Rick Cerrone and and the the quandry for a young pitcher to have the respect and also the confidence to know what you're all about and what you've been doing for as much as I shared with Jack I said Jack everybody's trying to help you you know what you've been doing since spring training and you you know your few few starts in triaa he pitching really well I said you got it you got it you got to share that because you know in this case Jaheim the catcher for the Rangers it's like he's calling what you know the Scout report for the Detroit Tigers and not that to get in the Weeds on that but you know there's nuances that that that you own that is your strength I'll never forget John uh when uh you know and I put I took a lot of stuff from a lot of u pictures in my career one of them from from Dave Stewart in Toronto was um you gotta let hitters hit your best stuff and Stu was on you know Stu was a a fast ball split with a little little breaking ball to get guys off his split finger that's what he was and with a plus fastball velocity and he was like in all Scout reports you know and gayen Cisco was a pitching coach and they'd say well watch out for this watch out good fastball hitter good fastball this good fastball that and Ste would say gayen can he hit my fastball you know in Stu's Stu has a higher pitch voice as you guys know and that you know and it resonated with me it's like you know pitch to your strengths I know I'm getting in the weeds here but um you know Jack's going to be fine um knam wood hopefully gets a lot more opportunities and you know again the learning of you're pitching you know who are you what makes you successful what are the things you need to improve on and continue to improve on Al you know you said something interesting in the first answer I'm I'm assuming you you don't want to say names but can you give an example because I think this is the constant war between people of your generation pitched and current of uh how you think about the art and the battle it's you said there's some stuff I didn't love that I hear can you give an example of something you didn't love that your son heard where you wish you could have just said Jack I know that's your dou a pitching coach the pitching coordinate whatever you got to throw that away man he's never been on the bump in a big game or or whatever it is that you felt yeah yeah great question um I I'm not one of those guys because one of my uh favorite pitching coaches Vol time um Larry rild he got a barely a cup of coffee with Detroit um you guys know Larry well um I love Larry love Larry and Gil Patterson who also got a couple you know a few starts uh back in the 70s with the Yankees one of my favorite pitch coach so you don't have to be you know a a a a crusty veteran a major leager to to to have good information and I'm also finding now with a lot of these organizations and I don't know whether it's just economics they can't pay for an next big league guy to be an A- ball coach which I would if I owned a team I would have major league coaches down there I think it's so valuable if you're trying to develop players well dang it and the end result is is the big leagues I I want big league experienced guys that could at least relate the big league experience and it doesn't make it not all big league coaches or ex- big Leaguers are good coaches so I also I know it's not easy um here's the thing Joel I think I think analytics and and trackman and edron Xs and kinetic you know all of that all of the technology that there that's out there I would be in it because I was alsoe of the curve with with with scouting reports and I paid for it personally before we started getting binders from clubs or you know used to be the advanced Scout right you had an advanced guy that would go three days four days ahead write up a report give it to the hitting coach pitching coach and the manager and that was our scouting report but when I first got called up so I I got ahead of that with video and I had I had people doing stuff for me to get it so I'm not I'm my head's not in the sand on it but what I don't like and I know I'm I'm I'm being long-winded but what I don't like and I'm careful and I'm very careful of translating translating my opinion to my son is that we're seeing a lot of players not only pitchers but hitters they're playing to the computer and that is a compliment and I've always said that trackman data and all that stuff is terrific that is a tool for you to try to either work on something or give you a better focus and narrow the attention to a weakness or a strength but don't play to that and I have a problem with that and I I I I really do so when I'm hearing like no no no that that's the slider they want and I'm looking at it I replay the video I'm like that's the slider they want it it's it's it's 2 feet outside what are you talking about no no no I'm not talking about that I'm talking about the minus 3 in and the plus 4 in on the vert horizontal spin axis but I'm like oh my God you're thinking this stuff in a game like wow mine was Battle um I'm gonna mentally will myself through this yes I have a game plan but man when it comes to game time play ball like I can't be thinking about oh yeah that's the one or go back in the clubhouse or dog or whatever they do now behind the dogout and say hey what is my slider got enough vert on it what get the guy out so I know it sounds kind of like Neanderthal is Joel but there's a fine line there you want me to go on side day two days later my pitch and Coach says hey man your slider was crap was flat you got around it the side of it here take a look man see your minus three those two games in uh Atlanta and Philly look at this it's minus fourah uh you know we got to get your hand a little bit I'm like great got it I understand that but don't tell me that crap in the game I don't want it it's too late it's ding ding ding we're we're we're going you know it's the Gladiator syndrome so it's a little bit of that that I think needs to you know we're always pulling it back to that place and I think it's a crutch for a lot of guys I think it's an excuse I think arm injuries is part of that when we're training kids to get the D1 scholarship you got to throw at least 90 there there's kids seventh e8th grade trying to throw 90 miles an hour look your your medial leond is not developed enough you rip the bone off it they don't rip your UCL it's it's the bone that comes off it's called little ear's elbow like what are we doing so if we if we're if we could stop training stuff all the time and teach kids how to pitch stuff will come yeah that's what I was going to ask you about I mean Al you pitched 19 years in the big leagues I remember early on there wasn't a lot of talk about Pitch counts until I think Dallas scen through you about 248 pitches how many pitches 163 Joel 163 pitches uh and you came back from that obviously you've had you had some arm injuries in your career but you lasted 19 years what else what else is going on in major league baseball right now because I think it's an epidemic at this point I mean it's very unfortunate that all these great picturers are needing Tommy John surgery or some other surgery or out frankly and uh what can be done about this beside what you alluded to just now so you know both of you know because you're in you're in the middle of it and you have a lot of information they they know the baseball Major League Baseball Commissioner's Office knows that this is something that we have to figure out right because it's one thing you know that five or six or eight or 10 or 12 Tommy Johns a year you could go on that Google doc and I used to follow it and I stopped following because it was like scary back in the day you'd have like eight nine 10 guys a year now it's like 60 70 guys a year all right it's not a there's not a silver bullet there's not I'm not smart enough and there's not one uh you know Zoom call or conversation in a boardroom to figure it out but I would start with this I John I really believe this I think somehow someway if we could if we could start uh highlighting pictures and appreciate the craft I always think about Tom sver he was my idol and uh you know he he used to talk about pitching like art he did he said it's a beautiful art and the craft and and and the and the Nuance of changing speeds and hitting the spot like it wasn't about like hey I threw 95 and my slider was great and my vertical was this it wasn't it was about pitching and the beauty of that so I'm getting to it and I think there's multiple there's 10 there's several answers but what I would do if I could I would turn the radar guns off I would and I would see how that feels and looks I think we have too many people in the game because they never played they rely on the computer and they should right if they never really played like and this is this is my Binky the the the uh you know the metrics and the analytics and all the track data which is really really really good stuff but this is what I lean on as opposed to my eyeballs looking and seeing yeah that wasn't a good slide oh yeah you're right look at this the computer yeah no I didn't need that I saw that you know and we get back to the picture looking at home plate in the batter because there's often it's not just my son John I I'll talk to guys and I'll say uh did you see that with his some front side he has no shot of of hitting anything away you don't have to go outer third or black you go out half and I get a picture I was like huh I'm like you didn't see that you didn't see that front side and leak and and the hip went a little bit and they're like no and then they asked me they was like you saw that I said yes I used to throw pitches purposely out of the zone to get a reaction on a certain pitch so I know I'm getting in the weeds I would shut off the I would shut off the the radar guns and now we have stadiums John as you know they have the stinking all the trackman data on scoreboard so forget about that like I turn around I see my spin is 2200 and St me 2400 I'm now do I need to spin it harder I didn't know what the hell my spin was when I was throwing I wanted to throw seven scoreless and if my pitch count was down I would beg Bobby valtine to keep me in the game that's what I did I have no idea what my spin rate was I knew when I went three and a third and you guys were writing that I stunk because I didn't get out of fourth inning I get that you know I would occasionally I'm lying because I did throw hard when I was younger I I was in the upper 90s but when I got older what I did look at was my velocity separation from my fast ball of my curveball and it was mostly because I Str I I went from mid to Upper 90s to low 90s right so what am I going to look up look up on the scoreboard his 93 whoop ddoo right whereas R bit used to throw it and no sooner he look out he would have finish the pitch it out in left field Amo yeah right hand he' go whoop and he look back to the well if you're throwing a 100 crap I probably would too um but I wanted to see I wanted to maintain at least 13 preferably 15 miles an hour separation my fast ball or curveball because the eyeballs can't register that right if you throw it right it pops out of your hand you're going to get some drag gu's going to be a little bit fooled um yeah so I don't I'm sure it's Pie in the Sky stuff John but I would uh I would turn the radar guns off and I would start teaching kids you're going to gain velocity your velocity is not going to be what it is is an eighth or ninth grader um you're going to get bigger and stronger Etc and forget about the radar gun I I don't I I it's probably delusional but I think we start with that yeah we don't care about I'm sorry one more thing Jill joh we don't care about longevity we have organizations that know that they draft guys and you know me with mechanics guys walking around MLB Network like I look at guys and go oh you know I don't know if that's three years two years four years five years that's not a good delivery guy they don't care it's like all right he throws 94 to 99 we're going to teach him a nice tight slider get his ass up to the big le as quick as possible because he's going to break down that's kind and then let's let's just you know we'll recycle these guys we're gon to get as many 95 to 100 m hour ARS you know teach teach good deliveries you know Al you you you you hit a a spot that I talk about quite a lot where I say before the game it's a debate in the game it's a competition like at some point you have to throw the debate away um John mentioned the the 160ish pitches uh Dallas Green had you throw in April of 89 I'm old enough I was covering the game that was my first year on the beat I was there when you were traded for Jesse Barfield later that that month I was there when your brother came to the Yankees uh and now both of your children are in the major leagues the lighters have become the first family of Major League Baseball are you amaz that it's your family it's two brothers and Sons of Brothers your your nephew and your son are have both been the by the way Mark Jr is a heck of a reliever for the Cubs yeah and he doesn't throw 95 and I love it and he's got an unbelievable amount of confidence he always has he's had a chip on his shoulder Mark ligher Jr Chicago Cubs nice reliever he went to the baseball Powerhouse of NJIT in nework New Jersey I don't say it disrespectfully but that was his that was his offer and he all he's ever done was prove people wrong minor leagues Phillies uh got to the big leagues went to Toronto had multiple he had a few surgeries and he has grinded he's got a great split finger Joel and he throws 91 92 miles an hour he's a great example for my son uh to look at what Mark's doing so there there's a snapshot of pitching with a guy with a plus plus pitch split finger um that's doing a great job in the big Lings I what I couldn't believe Joel and obviously it came out with with uh with the uh research and um the facts I didn't realize that that's never happened and I damn think that's cool and I'm so proud of you know my kid and certainly my brother Mark is as you covered for a short time when he before he got traded at Detroit foror lello um that it's never happened I know we've had grandfathers I know we had fathers we had Brothers we had father Sons I'm surprised for 150 years that somewhere two brothers didn't have two sons so really cool um obviously I hope Jack gets more uh opportunities yeah I'm also old enough to have covered Mark your brother and a terrific terrific guy really really enjoyed him and congratulations to his son Mark Junior's doing a terrific job one thing I always want to ask you about we alluded to the big pitch count before uh you had a big pitch count at the end of the game five of the 2000 World Series take me through that exactly what happened obviously Soro had that sing ey hit that ended it I don't remember how many pitches you threw but well take me through the decision for you to stay in the game what pitches you were throwing and what what you were hoping to do there okay so I knew it was the last game I would pitch I wasn't going to pick up a ball until December and get ready for spring training of 2001 so I I had a great relationship with Bobby and Bobby knew my my nuttiness uh there was a there was a a method to my my madness if you will um he knew I was prepared he knew I gave it my all he knew I wasn't a jerk just mailing stuff in um and I also took the responsibility as a front-end guy um when I knew that there was a need for to save a couple of the guys in the pen right this is before we had eight guys down in the pen um you know it was six you know maybe a Club depending upon how the rotation was going maybe seven it was mostly five or six so uh and I used to tell Bobby I said Bobby uh you know my trouble is the first inning first couple Innings like I was a I was a guy of feel feel for the Umpire feel for my stuff feel for that cutter you know where piau would catch it right bam boom you know and I get Skies start chasing um so the eighth inning and I I I don't have the box score in front of me I always say I struck out the side in the eighth but maybe Joel you could check this while I'm I'm telling this story um the eighth inning of game five of the 2000 World Series I pitched well in game one we had a lead uh you know late in the game we ended up losing to um the game got tied in Extra Innings we lost to the Yankees at Yankee Stadium so I felt really good about F facing them and I was in a good place you know been been in the big Le for a bit uh I think I struck out the side in the eighth inning and I came in and I know my pitch count was getting there and I'm like it's the eighth inning oh by the way it's 22 2 I gave up two solo Jacks Bernie who was struggling or wasn't having a great spring he got me on my my my Pat the cutter popped at left field I don't I forget what anying was at and then Derek Jeter I threw him a one change up which what the I doing that's not my pitch I always used to throw tilt slider down and in dererk had a tough time because he smothered what dererk was good at was like keep his hands in punched to right field as you guys know I throw him a one change up dererk reminds me years later when I was doing YES Network stuff I said I and I would joke with him I said I can't believe I threw you a change up it's two to one like the sixth or seventh inning we're winning the Mets and U he then comes back he goes yeah not only did you throw me a one change up you threw me backtack change ups and then I'm like oh my god did Mike call this what what was I thinking and the only reason why I'm saying this because you guys know the way I pitched I was I was high fast ball cutter curveball in the dirt like I i' throw i' sprinkle two or three change UPS in um so after striking out the side in the eighth Dave Wallace the pitching coach comes down in The Dugout and I knew his MMO I was like how you feel how you feel kid and I went how to beep how do you beep and think I feel and I was being demonstrative and Loud because I wanted Bobby V to hear it at the end because I didn't want to get taken out of the game I'm like this is cool as game five of the World Series like we need this I don't want out this game so I get the first two outs in the in the uh in the ninth I walk uh pada on a 3-2 pitch that I still think is a strike of course because I always about the strike zone and then uh the next pitch broches hits a little over Robins head at third first and second and then the next pitch Louis Soho hits a 10 Hopper up the middle boom ball gets thrown away from Mike and I get taken out of the game I cry I won't say cry cry but John I it got close to full-blown tears because I gave it my all I knew it was daunting for us to come back because Marian AA was going to come in the bottom of the 9th and I'm like damn it like and I started I did I started I started crying a little bit because it was so exhausting yeah you know what again being in the ballpark for two games fives in Queens different stadiums one watching you talk your way into it and one watching Matt Harvey Tu his way into it right and it had bad outcomes both times for the Mets and I actually still remember uh pada was not a great base runner not fast he he still almost got thrown out at the plate I know the play at the plate and if you look at where Mike was set up um you know Jay pton made a nice strong throw and I don't know where the where the Hop was It was obviously in front of the mound uh Mike was actually behind the Baseline because I looked at that every different angle and uh I don't know whether if he was in the Baseline does he get bowled over does the ball knock out of his hand but like he was uh whatever look it's it was it was 22 in the top of the night we got two outs and I think look the Mets put me in the Hall of Fame last year and I am so grateful I I grew up a Mets fan I I had the coolest thing New Jersey get to the big Lees with the Yankees One World Series in Toronto and then Marlins I was living South Florida anyway I got back you know got to play for my team as a kid um but as I said at the Hall of Fame induction last summer thank you thank you thank thank you to Bobby V because there are so many other people that put players in position to get the opportunity to either do it or don't and if your manager doesn't have the confidence and we're talking about an outing of 143 pitches to that game and also the 163rd game uh that that the playing game in 99 you know there was a couple other ones sprinkled in there with the Mets but those games Mets fans if I'm walking in Manhattan they bring up those games and it's because look I'm coming out a 5 nothing win we're winning in Cincinnati he could they would take me out now right so you go a two hit shutout instead of a two hit shutout it's eight Innings of two hit or one hit ball because uh Pokey ree got a double in a night yeah you know it just doesn't feel the same you know what I'm talking about it's prob it's probably not even eings they probably take you out after six or seven because they're racing to the bullpen uh in today's game it's probably a look Al we could uh we we really didn't get into your career well I'm sure we could have uh asked a ton of questions about that great Toronto team uh coming up with the Yankees Billy Martin so this is my uh my invitation that we need to do this again uh soon and uh John and I appreciate you joining us on the show yeah sorry sorry to Long answers but U I appreciate you guys and I know you guys um are great baseball guys and hopefully it wasn't too far in the weeds for your uh for your for your viewers now this shows the weeds this is the show in the we should retitle it in the weeds yes well I think if we called it in the weeds a different kind of group would listen to and watch us but that's that's probably a different situation Al thanks so much we'll see you up at the network soon you're welcome my pleasure John and I thank Al lier of course for joining us on the show John hit or error I'm gonna go hit I've been very very positive postive lately I I was just out in LA with the the Mets uh the Dodgers aren't playing to3 wins like we expected but Otani uh unreal I mean the guy is an incredible hitter I think that's a bargain at 700 million deferred uh he leads baseball now as we do this in Ops in slugging in hits in batting average uh in about 10 other categories I can't think of at the moment uh he is an amazing amazing ball player and will be even better when he starts pitching whether that be next year or the year after but they're still saying next year I got to give a hit to Otani lot of pressure on him he's not feeling it apparently at least in the performance at bat you know John I have a question before I get to my hiter error uh you mentioned coming back to pitch we're seeing how valuable he is when he's just hitting uh would he be even more valuable if he just gave up the pitching and went to the Outfield uh and turned into probably a gold glove level Outfield uh to go along with this level of offense uh I I don't know I've been thinking about it a lot more I obviously love the story it's such a great story to have him doing both and I hope he does do both again because I'm a story guy I I don't know what do you think when you're watching this yeah I'm a story guy I want to see him pitch it's fantastic when a guy's a top pitcher and a top hitter maybe the top hitter at this moment anyway um I mean if he can pitch he should be pitching I think maybe maybe uh maybe it'll be safer for him to be the closer I don't know they have a good one in Phillips but uh I I want to see him back on the mound um yeah I probably would be a great outfielder as well obviously with a great arm but uh uh I'd rather see him pitch on the subject of great hitters my hit is on one of them I'm gonna give a a hit this week to Jose Altuve things are going wrong in Houston just about everywhere but not at second base for the Astros not at the top of their lineup sitting 350 it's got over a th000 Ops six homers three Steals and I John I am not doing this to piss off Yankee fans I I swear I am not because I understand how much they dislike Altuve to me he's the closest thing to Jeter we've had sing Jeter uh because he's consistently just terrific and big moments make him bigger he is not he he rises he's like Jeter he has like these all these m mble moments and you know we're not going to remember him as like like an alltime alltime great but like Jeter ke like he for a team that defies the crapshoot in the postseason by going to at least the ALCS in seven straight years he helps defy the crapshoot like Jeter did by playing so great at Big moments uh so I give my hit this week to Jose Altuve and I compare him to a guy who I know Yankee fans wouldn't want me to compare him to yeah I get that I mean I I would put Jeter in the category of alltime great uh and and Altuve as a Hall of Famer I know we mentioned the Shire Hall of Famers we talk Verlander Sherer you know other other players and we don't mention Al duve but to me he's a short Hall of Famer I was watching the game last night in Chicago reminded me of college late April it's 30 something degrees he's wearing a ski mask and uh you know it'sit a home run they're down four to two it's a home run in the ninth inning to pull them closer they did end up losing they're now seven and 18 but uh uh just a fantastic player and and let's not forget and I know Yankee fans are not going to remember this but he was one of the few guys who did not take the cues with the trash can he didn't want to do it he didn't I don't I don't know that it was because he had more Integrity but he didn't like the idea of doing it he he thought it wouldn't help him to to have an idea what pitch was coming I don't know whatever the reason he didn't do it and he's being unfairly blamed as I've said a million times no one's listen to me even the people who were listening to this podcast no one's going to say okay you're right we're now not we're now going to cheer Altuve that's not going to happen that ship is sailed but I'm with you he is uh comp comparable in many ways to Jeter and uh he should get more respect than he does yeah you know John the ultimate proof about the guy's career is we could assume now he's not getting any Trash Can banging even if you did we could assume now he's not wearing any buzzers if you assumed he was doing that and he's continued to be a historically great hitter uh so I'm going to believe yeah is he 5'6 or five I don't know yeah what whatever it is it's unbelievable it really is unbelievable to see him not only in the field in the field he looks like a b player in the clubhouse he looks like a regular guy he doesn't look like a ball player and it's amaz it really it's amazing but he is an all-time great yep on the subject of all-time greats John who who are our producers who help us through the show Jake Brown you can always get that name correct Joel and Dan Shalom I believe that's correct uh you could say shalom that's nice also right it's not his name but it's it's close well it's both hello and goodbye let me get through this so we could get to goodbye don't forget to Apple Spotify wherever you listen to podcast uh give us a listen uh give us a rating send us a review uh the New York Post sports YouTube page uh to see us uh on this and keep sticking with us all season on the show with Joel Sherman John Hyman