106: Ariel Hyatt Interview Part 1

welcome to key conversations where you get to connect with the best of the music business unlocking the secrets to exploding your music career presented by in the key of success I'm your host Cheryl B inglehart the conversations you're about to hear are between our special guest and participants of my mx4 course the marketing and branding money-making mentorship Mastermind for musicians they are singers songwriters composers producers and artists just like you asking their burning questions of our experts while transforming their careers over 6 weeks if you think this could be you check out mx4 course.com to schedule a free half-hour coaching call with me to see if we'd be a good fit so let's get [Music] started thank you all for being here and this is like super super humbling treat to have Ariel on this call so thank you so much for your time and your expertise and I'm just really excited to hear everyone's questions and um yeah I can't thank you enough for making the time for this so Le is mine fun yeah so um you know I gave Ariel The Little gist of who you guys are we're all songwriters and composers and a lot of us are coming out with our first record second third and the question is sort of now now what so we're in the middle we just had our third um week of this MX for course and we sort of started to dig into getting our consistencies across the the music matching the websites matching the social media so now we're set up to start sharing and start creating content and this is a perfect timing to sort of bring you into this conversation of now what and what what are the best practices today because I know it changes every week and and how did you get to becoming this Guru in in such a a a humongous space you're like the goto person for music Mar Mar in social media so I just wanted to sort of start the conversation out hearing a little bit of your story what got you to where you are today and then I'll open up to the um to the participants to ask you we'll do some like laser questions and we'll keep it under an hour and we'll just sort of see where the conversation goes okay um well thanks for having me what an honor and congratulations to the people not only that I can see but people that will be listening to this it is very rare to find artists that take action in the way that you're doing it and how did I get to be a guru which is such a weird word yes um the answer is I took action I took action I think anyone that shines in their space or is really good at their craft you got to do a lot of interior work as well as the exterior work and what I find is mostly especially with artists there's such an attachment to I really want my art out there I really want to be seen I really want to be heard I really want to make a difference but but there's often something super blocking which I know charl is probably helping you get out of your own way so that you can kick some ass with your work and your craft so um the really short answer to how did I become this person I set a huge intention to be this for artists um and then I studied I studied internet marketing I studied social media I studied you know business I started as a traditional publicist when I was really young um I'd only had two jobs one at a record label for a year and one at a concert promoter and um I had a dream to sort of do my own thing and in the music business no one gives you a job so you have to go make your own um and so I did and um it's been a really amazing journey and Cheryl's right the whole social media and online marketing thing is shape shifter and to be good at it you have to keep your chops up unlike practicing your craft where once you begin to master you're not going to get thrown like oh look your instrument has 20 new keys or 50 new ways that you can play it unfortunately that's what happens with social media and staying Nimble with it is it can be a challenge you know you have to sort of be okay with not being a perfectionist and I think that with artists you work so hard on your craft and your songwriting and your music you are a perfectionist in that domain and to be really successful with social media you have to kind of give up that sort of perfectionist inclination and if you do post a tweet with a typo on it or you post the wrong link don't just let all that go the thing that's very cool about social media is it moves very quickly and so you don't really end up having to obsess over it's not like what if you put out horrible video or a song that you're really embarrassed about five years later um because most of it disappears Into The Ether so that's what I can say about a context for setting yourself up for social is don't be attached to making it all perfect it is a work in progress and have some fun doing it um that would be my other main jumping off point around how to do it well H that's awesome so I have something here that I sort of keep near my desk at all time look familiar yes um we've been talking about like just sort of starting to get into the idea of like splitting up your post so it's not all about you there's a little bit of shining lights on someone else there's a little bit of just letting people into your personality um and I sort of was going by a very simple rule of thirds you've sort of divided into five um levels here like a food pyramid which I absolutely love and it's I know it's available on your your website cyber PR music.com or cyber the 2015 version so you can find it actually at Cyber pr.com awesome um and there's a there's an updated uh new pyramid to refer to but yeah it's funny social media changes and all the the apps change and the and certain things come in and out Instagram is today's darling um but the tenants of social media exactly what charl just said shining a light on others I think is the key point and if you can get to do that really well you will have a lot of success and I think it also will take the pressure off of feeling like oh my gosh I I don't want to I don't want to feel like that guy and I think that's the other thing when we get into social media marketing it is not left on me that most people have someone they dislike immensely on social media and they don't like the way that that person has done their social media marketing or there's someone on their Facebook page that seems to be oversharing a little bit too much or maybe it feels like they're bragging there's actually a lot of studies that show that Facebook actually makes us feel bad about ourselves because what happens is people go onto Facebook and they put sort of this fake version of themselves you know you only share of course the nicest moments the greatest moments the the achievements the happy family photo and I I often when I talk about this I talk about one of my best friends who went through breast cancer a couple of years ago and if you looked at her Facebook page you would see photos of her happy daughters and her family and everything looking wonderful and what I knew on the backside of that was she was going through a really really hard time um and she was terrified and it was awful but you never saw that on Facebook so whenever you go on Facebook and you see that person that seems to be overly bragging I always try to present that that's not reality so another thing aside from sort of not being attached to perfectionism is sort of understanding that social media can allow for sort of things that don't feel good like when people over brag or over promote everybody knows that artist that like only seems to be sharing when they have a show or an album and check me out buy my stuff check me out and you're like oh my gosh do they ever take their foot off the gas here um and that's why I designed that pyramid so that one in every 10 posts is a sufficient amount of times to promote yourself um and you can you can do some other stuff but you just have to know what to do yeah great so I think that's a great lead into to um let's start doing the in the round questions here um Perry do you have any questions for Ariel I do um oh wait I wrote them down um let's just do one at a time and go around and make sure everyone gets a little bit in um so I'm a little um not confused but like I don't I don't know um when exactly do you do PR is it like a continuous thing is it something that I should really only be doing like if I'm doing a special project and I mean I'm just I'm not sure exactly when because PR people that I've dealt with in the past have been not terribly helpful for the amount of money that I was paying them so one of the reasons why I'm not a traditional publicist anymore is exactly what you're talking about um and hilariously a couple months ago I just fired a publicist so okay so great question let's have the pr discussion um first of all that was such a good question when is the right time to do PR oh god um that's a great question used to be in an older Paradigm I would say up until about seven or eight 10 years ago you had something that you wanted to announce to the world right so in our context that would be like an album or a song coming out or a tour or something newsworthy and you would go to a publicist and they would connect your newsworthy thing to the media and that was the position of publicist intermediary so I would have connections to the newspapers magazines television that you wanted to get on and you would hire me to get you there now with social media having come come in the news cycle of there is a moment to publicize guys has now turned into what they're what they call a 24-hour news cycle so you can see this on CNN or fox or you turn on any kind of not really the big networks but if it's a news channel I always think of like the time where I had the aha moment about the 24-hour news cycle was when Anna Nicole Smith died this story was just like all over the the TV for like weeks weeks it was like and she's still dead like there's really not a story here right I mean it was sad a a woman died of a drug overdose right that that's the story and yet we're going to see her ex-husband walking out of his house now and oh we're going to find out about you know how exactly she died would she face down or face up it was horrible and this sort of goes on and on like this so now we are attracted to this sort of ongoing news cycles and it's expected and you even see this with the bloody weather it's not just like a storm anymore there's like you know this crazy stuff that gets built up and not only that news feeds on bad negative news so you know you don't see a whole lot of good news so publicists when you hire them are acting from a massive deficiency place because a unless you're doing something so Sensational and outrageous and outlandish and bad you're not relevant to the news which is horrible because you want to be relevant because you created Music and you'd like people to review it but if you go and look at what is being covered you're going to find newsworthy things are covered so major artists major events major concerts we'll see a lot of YouTube coverage this summer because they're on another massive billion doll tour so so that's one sort of thing to keep in mind about news and with publicity today that sort of starting and stopping like when is the right time to do it a lot of people get the advice that it's time to do publicity when you have a release or when you have a tour or when you have a benefit show and I agree with that that is a good time to do publicity but unfortunately publicity has gotten so hard to get that even the most well-intentioned publicists who do everything right and work all of the channels will most of the time end up disappointing you as a client because it is so hard to get especially the larger Publications so if you have in your mind that you wanted to be per you live here in New York yeah so I you live in the hardest place on Earth basically to get PR like what are you gonna do go to the New York Times no John paralysis covering you know he's hanging out with Bono tonight so it's really really hard especially when you come from a major city to get local press and then it's really really hard to stand out above the five million billion trillion things that are happening in and around New York right you're competing with literally the coolest stuff on Earth so even though your stuff is cool it it is challenging to live in a massive Hub of art and culture at any time because there's always something extremely cool going on I mean look at Time Out New York every page is like full of really big names and cool things and charity things and inventive things and you're competing with 27 museums and I mean it's insane so I feel your pain about the publicity thing they do charge a lot of money because they have to because it actually does take a lot of effort the problem is with PR you're paying for this effort and not necessarily for a result and that can be really really disappointing because it's very hard for publicist to turn a great result especially with an independent artist and I have represented so many artists and even the major Superstars that I represent even they don't get the good PR when I was working for George Clinton in Parliament Funkadelic which I did for five years I called Rolling Stone I called spin I called all you know I I was like hello he invented Funk anyone interested no when did they all call me they all called me very very sadly when George got arrested on a drug B charge and then my phone rang off the hook I mean people that I could never get on the phone spin Rolling Stone The New York Times NPR um the wire and what were the two words that I had to say no comment so that's the way the press works they feed on newsworthy things now I will warn you and caution you because I've seen a lot of artists figure that out and they go okay I'll just make a really big newsworthy thing if it is not not your turn to get PR you will not get PR now this is not to say that you don't deserve writeups reviews and accolades you just have to know where the getting is appropriate for you and unfortunately the place where most Independent Artists who don't have major label pull behind them or have the super hot moment of the day thing unfortunately the rest of us have to take a number and kind of get in in line but a good publicist should also be able to help you hone what is special unique and different about you what is special unique and different about your music there's so many exciting Outlets online now they might be small they might not have the sexiness of the LA Times or New York Times or a performing songwriter or whatever thing it is you sort of billboard what everything you really want to be in but it's a great place to to build your your story and you have to get with a publicist that can understand that so I hope that sheds a little light a lot of our clients that can afford it now hire us kind of on an ongoing basis because the and we're more on the social media side of the house the social media side of the pr house never stops and the good news about it is it's all about creating your own moments your own articles your own content and I find that very very exciting and the reason why is we don't have to wait for them to come give us the Accolade we don't have to wait for them to come you know legitimize our art we could send it out for peer review we could interview someone that inspires us on our own blog we can have Cheryl blog about us on her blog which gets a ton of ey eyeballs you know you have to start with people you know in your community to help you get the pr and once you get it rolling the bigger things come in and in and in and in it's just like building a garden first you have to you know plant the seeds then the bigger things happen but it takes time and energy and a lot of patience awesome thank you did that answer that Perry a little bit when you have project a little bit ongoing a little bit there's a lot of different ways to go it sounds like and um that was a really great insight for me to hear about the publicists you know it's struggle you know we always assume oh they have the connections just do it why can't they just do it they're not good enough I'm wasting my money it's such a struggle I hear that like wor job and I mean I don't know who you hired and we don't have to name names but another sort of big problem is if you hire a publicist because they are a publicist for a very famous large person there's no question that that publicist knows the right writers they know the right editors but it's not appropriate for them to go to the head of Vanity Fair the head of the New York Times the head of you know the shouts murmurs at the New Yorker I mean there has to be a reason for them to do that and just having a really nice album very very sadly does not news make and so it this is like and I always have to calm my artist down and say like look you're screaming and upset that you want to be on Pitchfork which is the new Rolling Stone but your music doesn't sound like anything that's on Pitch workk have you considered that and most of the time they haven't most of the time they want it because they know that they read somewhere that if you get on Pitchfork it's good and people will notice you and it moves the needle but Pitchfork reviews a very very specific type of hipster indie rock cool music and that's not the music I represent at my company so we don't even call Pitchfork and if a really cool hipster indie rock band calls us and they say we want to be on you know Pitchfork or drown in sound or stereo gum or Brooklyn vegan you know these these blogs that are the huge music blogs we have to have a real talk about okay well do you really belong there if I played your music next to the last 50 bands that got featured on those websites do you fit in there and if the answer is no then you don't need to fit in there you can go fit in somewhere else so I also caution anyone that's trying to get PR to really think about that as well and I think it will be liberating once you go oh that's not my people that's not my place I don't need to be there because it's it's not appropriate yet until you do make something and it's appropriate so I hope that sheds some light and I know I know the pr thing so well and I've seen I've seen so much questionable work and it's really really really hard to satisfy especially when someone pays you thousands of dollars I mean it's really it's why I got out of the business I I hated every minute of not being able to provide value for for the amount of money awesome great Perry awesome question thank you um let's go to one of our unseen participants here um favor are you still on the line and do you have a question for Ariel don't forget to unmute yourself there I am still online um actually I'm just picking up a lot of um information from the discussions that are going forth I don't have any real specific questions um actually I had already kind of discerned things that you're mentioning Ariel as far as myself being an independent artist in the midwest um my genre is interesting I do songs about life and about love and about the Lord I'm a Christian and uh that's kind of the new thing so uh I've just kind of been uh um just paying attention to the opportunities that are presented to me as I put myself out there and it will have to make its own way uh because I don't know of uh anything specifically publication or actually any genre that does exactly what I do and I'm Not Afraid um the quality of my work is is what's going to get me wherever I'm going so fav do you have favor I'm just going to like cut you off here just in the interest of time um do you have like a niche specific question are you sort of just absorbing absorbing what Ariel is saying because I know in the midwest like you're in a great spot for the Christian Soul Market which is I know sort of where you're dabbling in um yeah and I know that there's this fav's been struggling with should I move to LA or New York is there something about being in a bigger Hub but you know what I got watch Girl stay right where you are uhuh no I mean unless you really love paying three times the amount of rent uh then yes but yeah favor I wanted I think you know knowing the the the the struggle of what about St Louis what about where I am I wanted to see I I mean I sort of want to ask the question for you like in terms of publicity and like having a market a local market to to do your unique genra is that something that is you know is a good thing to be in St Louis is that does that help a publicist you know having a unique thing 100% um so yes there's something about the big fish small pond phenomenon that I very much agree with there is something I did hear in what you said and I well first of all any kind of Praise Worship Christian music can find an incredible Niche and I have to say out of out of all the types of music that we get to publicize Christian music is one of my favorite genres because I find the community to be much more welcoming much more loving unlike the snarky Indie Brock music blogger you get people tend to be a little bit more open-minded a little bit more embracing of their own so this is a good thing um a very good thing and should um should give you you should take comfort in that the second thing I'll say is while your music probably is unique and everything you said is you don't really sound like anyone else be very careful when you say that and the reason why I caution you on that is people need context and if you don't provide some context for your art people will will not resonate so that doesn't mean you have to say I sound exactly like Israel hoton or I sound exactly like Shania Twain I'm making this up whatever but you have to give people a place for them to focus their attention so even though your music might not sound exactly like a certain person you can come up with some touch points for yourself and I I deeply encourage you all to do this like my music is reminiscent of or if you like a b and c you might like me now that's not saying I sound exactly like Carly Simon meets Edie brel but that might be saying if you like ingred Michaelson you might find my music next to hers in your playlist so if you can kind of think in that context you're going to feel marketing and get and and having your music find its way is going to be a lot easier I you still there oh yes I am thank you I appreciate that that's like a an answer to a question question that I I sort of heard dancing around in there I hope that was okay that I jumped in and asked it for you absolutely absolutely thank you awesome you know I've seen it so many times I specifically moved to a very small town I'm born and raised in New York City I specifically moved to a small town to start my career in music and it was the best thing I ever did because everybody knew me in the town and that that trust me that not happening in New York anytime soon so even though I'm born and raised here and literally know thousands of people here and my family's from here and I probably have a leg up over a lot of people that move here um new a bigger Market is is just that it's a bigger market so I think it's very nice to visit larger markets and go do your thing and go home and be the bigger fish I I highly recommend that that's awesome great yeah thanks for sharing favor really really awesome all right we're going to stop there today stay tuned next week we're going to continue talking with Ariel and get even deeper into this promotional marketing conversation it is so important this day AG you don't want to miss it so we'll see you next week please don't forget to rate and comment on iTunes and Stitcher radio if you like this podcast it's the best way to keep it going get more subscribers and continue to share this awesome information with the Indie music Community thank you and we'll see you next time [Music] [Applause] [Music] all of the music on this podcast has been created by Yours Truly the theme song is called inevitably written with Cameron Ernst and produced by Joey o you can find all the songs plus more information on my music career at Cheryl be.com if you want to be one of the reasons I can keep this podcast and my blog living on gigging going then head to patreon.com/crashcourse music there you can contribute a dollar $2 $5 for the creation of each of these free musician resources together we can keep them coming and Inspire other creative people to do what they love and do it well again that's patreon.com/crashcourse friendly themes and customize them with their easy point-and-click editor all the features you could possibly imagine for a professional website are built in so because you are a key conversations podcast listener you get a special 3-month free trial just for you go to www. inek of success.com resources and click on the banzo logo to access your free extended trial [Music]