College Football Overtime Ep. 34 - Tennessee is taking on the NCAA and it could flip the sport

welcome into college football overtime my name is Garrett Chapman his name is Abe Gordon some people stop for the off season I don't know what an offseason is because college football happens each and every day and we love to talk about it right here on the college football overtime podcast so thank you so much for joining us no no matter how you're joining us whether it's on podcast whether it's on YouTube just make sure you liked make sure you're subscribed make sure you're following along all offseason long as we get into the dark days of the season but you know what we got plenty to talk about right here on the college football overtime podcast we had some drama between the NCAA and Tennessee we might have had the straw that broke the camels back and we're going to discuss that right here plus the Big 12 released its upcoming schedule they've expanded to 16 teams let's see what that schedule looks like but before we do any of that I gotta welcome in my co-host Dave Gordon how you doing buddy you know I was really prepared for it to actually slow down and uh and then we get the bombshell dropped on us a couple days ago so uh that is certainly not the case and this one actually may ultimately um kind of change the landscape more than anything else we've dealt with in the past couple of years which is wild considering how crazy the landscape has been over the course of those years but uh this this is a big one excited to dive into it with you yeah so let's just jump in let's just jump right in but but but before we do that California and Florida we let's go back to 2020 back where they changed the law and they they allowed 16 months for the NCAA to do something about it they said well effectively our athletes can profit off of their name image and likeness we don't think it's fair California and Florida both did that other states promptly followed suit and that's really where we got into this name image and likeness sort of debacle and then in their infinite genius the NCAA sort of holds a couple of meetings and they say that hey we we we'll do something about it we'll see what we can do let's we we'll produce some guide rails this will be fine and then July 2021 rolls around and nothing happened nothing nothing at all and they effectively just prayed for for government Intervention which of course anybody in their right mind they know that that's really the best course of action right well what happened now is they are effectively and correct me if I'm wrong retroactive punishing universities and institutions for their inability to promote fair play provide some guidelines same thing that we saw with all this transfer portal stuff with TZ Walker and with North Carolina and then they just they they tell him that he can't play he doesn't play for the first couple of games of the season and then seemingly overnight they just say hey actually you can play it's well you should just blame your Institution for not being able to file paperwork properly which yeah we we absolutely Ely no that was the exactly the reason that TZ Walker couldn't play it wasn't the fact that you realized that you were an institution that should be there to support the student athletes not support the whatever the money grubbing individuals were and now of course we have what's going on with Tennessee and and one of the the programs that they have isolated is is Tennessee and they are trying to effectively punish them for some impermissible benefits that were provided to the during the recruitment for Star Quarterback Nico I'm not going to try to pronounce his last name I still haven't gotten that down yet I'm still working on it Nico I promise I'll I'll do better next time but I cannot pronounce his last name super effectively so he's just gonna be be known as Nico here and they're giving them level one and level two violations which at this point would be a second a second violation because of course Jeremy puit went through his whole issue with the McDonald's bags and handing out cash and that's fine that's one thing that's a different thing entirely and I'm not going to address that this this is mostly on the NCAA for not providing any sort of guide rails any sort of recommendations any sort of penalties and now trying to retroactively punish the University of Tennessee and Tennessee they're now coming Full Throttle back at the NCAA the the chancellor of the Tennessee program dond Plowman basically says that they had quote two and a half years of vague and contradictory NCAA memos that have created chaos that NCAA member institutions and student athletes are quote struggling to navigate they're suing the NCAA for their negligence and I I support him so there's a lot of interesting angles to pick at on on this one Garrett and let's start at the beginning the problem started at the same time nil began uh I mean there was other problems before that but it it really does start with the introduction of Nils and collectives and that whole industry and the problem was the NCAA was given time to find ways to regulate it properly and they did not and I know there are issues with different states having different laws and the NCAA kind of just let every state pick their own setup that's why we are where we are now now let's fast forward to some of the conversations you and I have had just in the last two weeks Garrett we we have stressed our concern about the collectives and and their abilities to govern properly to benefit the schools that that's not necessarily it is their goal they're trying to make their School's football team better but ultimately they're playing by whatever rules they feel they want to play by a a and this is where you have issues now is that a lot of these things that the NCAA is is looking at is done by a collective not by the school a a and so they their inability to regulate at the start of this at the front end has now led to people on the backend finding ways to get benefits that shouldn't be given out and it's essentially impossible for the schools to regulate because you're not allowing the schools to to control the money it's got to be a collective that's not tied to the school and so it all comes all the way back to the idea of this was always going to happen at some point because the schools were not in charge of the money a a and you and I have talked about this so much the last two weeks from both sides in terms of collectives seem like at some point they could be fraud it could be a scam to they're not actually benefiting the students it's a money-making industry all of the different angles we've touched on and it's now led to this and and it's it's a situation where this could have been avoided with the proper regulation it could have been avoided with um a little bit of foresight I I think is is the other aspect to this um how did you not see this coming how did you not see because how did you not see not affiliated directly with the school not cheating I mean is like it was always going to happen at some point that way and and and look we'll talk about it here in a couple of moments but now now you look at the big picture um and I don't know if it's as drastic as everyone's kind of jumping to um but it might be I I I mean the question is left there Garrett because it's not just Tennessee it's gonna be other schools it's gonna be other states um is this again we have to kind of big picture it here and I want to hear your answer MH is this the beginning of the end for the NCAA as it relates to college football I think ultimately and we don't know the timeline for this answer but I think ultimately that's probably where it's headed yeah no this is where we're heading and this this has been where we we've been heading for I'd say a number of years now and and and really this comes from the injunction that Tennessee and Virginia filed and look they made this it may not be the end of the NCAA per se but would be the end of NCAA enforcement which if you remove their teeth then I don't really know what their point is anymore I and we talk about them as a governing body they're they're really the only option that has existed in college athletics that's it and and I'm not saying and like look at the end of the day it's like if the NCA goes away it would create a power vacuum that would need to be filled by something so I think the next question is if if they're te are taken away which it sounds like that's the direction that we're going in assuming that Tennessee gets what gets their way on this which I I think they there's a very good chance that they do otherwise I don't think that they would be pushing back as hard as they are right now they really really really think that they have a good shot at this and if they do get their way which I'm assuming they will then the NCAA loses its teeth and we don't know who steps in and and then that get leads us to this the new future of college football which is long been the future of college football which is just super conferences and that's where it the the the football alone steps away and breaks off and creates its own new Division and its own League of sorts where you can create you can collectively bargain with the athletes they can receive compensation you can uh align media rights deals along evenly throughout all of these programs and I don't know if that's NE all of these things are going to happen necessarily but you have to open the possibility the the door to that possibility because that's just where we are in college athletics if you want to see College athletics continue which I think based off of the amount of people that I see who listen to this podcast based off of the amount of people who watch those National Championship games based off the amount of people who watch a mundane ESPN Plus game on whatever platform like people want to watch this sport continue because it's meaningful and it matters to a lot of people and and in order to preserve that sport they need to get away from the NCAA and get away from the NCAA as quickly as possible yeah it feels like a fast forward to where we're ultimately are going to be headed um but but it it it just I I I'm so befuddled by the fact that we had how many different parties begging for for regul ations for how many years now um in Congress in their State Assembly like where wherever they could they've been saying time and time again this needs to be regulated it needs to be regulated it needs to be like one Central rule we all abide by it wasn't and now you find yourself sitting in this position here so at the end of the day whatever the future holds whether it's NCAA or not NCA CA whether it's some of the schools that are involved and others are separated or it's all the schools involved whatever it is you've got to get to a point where there's like one agreed upon set of regulations and bylaws and what you can do and what you cannot do in regards to these players because they're always going to try and find their advantages skirting the lines whatever it may be a a and if you're dealing with 50 different rules in 50 different states it's going to be an absolute nightmare for the sport I I I mean look the sport itself is okay it's the second most popular sport in the country it's not dying down anytime soon but there are aspects of it that are in trouble um and and so I think that to me is is the biggest concern is how quickly can you find a pathway towards Universal regul regulations and legislation on this because it didn't matter who asked for for it whether it was the all powerful Nick Sabin um state senators um congressmen whatever we we we've asked for legislation on this for how many years now Garrett six going on six years seven years whatever the number is yeah and we haven't gotten anywhere with it I I think this is um this is a real kind of wakeup call into the fact that if you didn't think we need legislation before like this really should be the final straw to like get it done figure it out or we're going to have have a dramatically different and again the sport itself will not change um the sport of college football in terms of lining up on Saturdays is not going to be dramatically different but but the the other aspects of it uh you know where money comes from how money is divvied out um conference I mean all of that stuff could be uppr grabs based on where we spend this and where this all ends up and and look I I I compared it earlier today to me this is like the Italian mobster that makes the power play and it only ends two ways it only ends up on top or six feet under there is no settling back in and controlling parts of this like if you're the NCAA this is your power play and you chose to make it right now and you either solidify your standing and end up on top or where we all seem to think it's headed you made a miscalculation a gross miscalculation which is what this appears to be with the way that Tennessee is fighting it and you're going to end up six feet under I that's kind of the way I take a look at it and and I I don't know if you feel the same but but I I I mean you know me I'm a movie guy and it kind of feels like like that's what's going on yeah the corleon family doing what they got to do to to stay on top yeah I I understand that reference completely but yeah really I think I have a slightly different timeline than you do just based off of just what I've seen so I'm going to take you back to 2020 and of course not a lot of people like to remember 2020 of course we were in the midst of the covid-19 pandemic and um a lot like the NCAA cancels the cancels March Madness and and and the the College World Series and we're into the summer months and and a lot of programs start saying or conferences in the NCAA in general are saying nope fall is canceled we're not doing anything and I and Greg sanki stood up and said no no we we're g to wait and we're not going to cancel anything and there was a lot of push back and a lot of people were calling for for him and like they were saying he was doing something terrible whatever and I don't care where you stand on that you and anybody who's listening it doesn't matter that's not the point of this conversation that is when we and then we ended up having a season and everybody else came back into the fold and they followed his lead that was really in my mind one of the first times that somebody stood up to the NCAA said we're going to do it our way and they called their Bluff and then CAA folded the rest of the conferences all folded and they all followed suit and and it's and I understand that like in this day and age Tony fatii and Greg sanki they dictate the the future of the sport whether they they like to admit it or not they are the two most important power Brokers in in college football in college athletics in general but specifically college football and when Greg sanki stood up and made that decision and then everybody else just sort of followed suit soon after that's when you realize the NCAA is in over its head and we're past we're past them and that's just true as a sport Ju Just to double back on your point because I think you're making a great thing the other problem for the NCAA is is it starts with Tennessee but you've got other member institutions in the SEC that are going to back Tennessee a and what starts is one Georgia backs them they don't like whatever Florida backs them you get Texas and it jumps into the big and now you've start now that's where the the problem really becomes an issue If This Were San Diego State trying to fight the NCAA we're probably having a different discussion in fact it's probably barely being covered by um you know the national media but but it's not and we can already see where it's headed and you're right um college football goes as the SEC goes whether Big 10 people like it or not that's just the truth um and and for it to start here in the SEC and and look they are Fierce competitors s but you know that every other school in the SEC looks at this as we can't let them do something we're not doing sort of thing and um yeah it's it's gonna snowball uh I would imagine relatively quickly now that doesn't mean this whole process plays out quickly um but I think in terms of teams coming and siding with Tennessee like you're like you're kind of suggesting that they did back in in in the era of of a potentially canceled season um yeah I I think you get enough backing and it it starts to become the movement I agree with you yeah because you you just follow the timeline of what the NCAA has done since covid it's just been consistently them trying to to swing wildly and try to regain that some of that lost power and since since that covid since covid-19 it's like they've they've swung wildly and missed and they've only like seeded more and more and more and more power because they tried to go to the government and say they went to the Supreme Court they argued in front of the Supreme Court one of their arguments was that people prefer to watch amateur Athletics compared to paid athletes which is just insane but not the point the point is they lost they lost that argument they spent tens of millions of dollars fighting against name image and likeness and they lost and then they had a chance to set up guide rails they didn't do it then they had a chance to to say hey well you have to do this like as far as transfer portal is concerned they lost that battle there then too they have consistently seated more and more and more and more and more control until we are at this point now which I feel like it's a breaking point that we are plain and simple because this feels like they are wildly swinging their fists and they just connected with somebody who punches back yeah I again I just when I think over what led us to these issues it still goes back to the the refusal to allow schools to control these decisions like that that that's really the base of it like the whole idea of collectives having the money is what has put you in this situation and we asked for legislation we asked guidelines and regulations all that stuff but to to allow entities that while they would like to support the school but not directly Affiliated by the school probably do not understand the NCAA bylaws and what isn't isn't allowed like you were always G to end up with this um a a and you're G to get into a situation like you have now with Tennessee where they're like well you wouldn't give us control what do you expect from us um and and it just it it could have been could have been handled like like there should have been foresight to foresee that I mean well with the court instead yeah they went to the Supreme Court and then they they tried their battle and then they just sat on their hands um the the only path back in my opinion for the NCA and not that there is one at this point but if there's going to be one um is is a plan for for legislation and regulation um and I don't know if at this point that would be enough um but that's the only path back because if you can't provide that the schools will find a way to bring it upon themselves to do so and if that's the plan if that's the road map they have to follow you're no longer involved which is what you've been discussing and setting up a a this whole time anyways um now whether that leads to the other discussion of payers are played directly employees with the UN I mean who knows who knows I think ultimately that's probably the simplest answer in terms of controlling the money um and I don't mean controlling the money in in the way that the collectives do it I mean in terms of Fairly divvying out what what is allowed but um you you just you opened up the wild west with I mean at least in Wild West towns when you go into a new city the sheriff checks your guns and says no guns allowed in this town when you're ready to leave check out like like like there wasn't even that like there wasn't even that I know I'm making like a lot of terrible movie references but but and you kind of know what I'm getting at though like like you just welcom them into town and it was a free-for-all I was like that you should have known you can't just free-for-all that that there are some things you can do while you're here and then some things you can do after you move on uh and so um that just wasn't how they played it so I don't know I gotta get off the movie references they're not exactly direct but I think you get the gist yeah I know you need a dock holiday or something like that just to kind of control things a little bit but you know hold on because now now screwed it up Wyatt her was the Doc Holiday is the villain theoretically W sh right get some okay Corral history let's go okay come on great great movie if you haven't watched Tombstone go check it out that's actually a movie that's back on my list of of rewatch like movies I want to rewatch great movie great movie but let's move into to something a little less complicated um I guess the pig 12 released its schedule you could maybe this is more comp icated than the NCAA losing all control of college football and and and Athletics at least look it may be more complicated at least it's written down on paper and we know exactly what we're looking at who's playing who at what at what day and at what location at least we have an idea and we have a rule book that they all they're going to play the football games by and then we know when they're going to play in a conference Championship game at least we have that because you know what that matters you know because each game that's being played is played by the same set of rules theoretically right well we can hope but the NCAA is doing it something thing I'm not going to they kill me the big 12 yeah they of course expanded to 16 teams uh just to match what the SEC the the Big 10 all these other conferences are doing right now and your power four as it stands right now you got 16 teams in the Big 12 you got 16 teams in the SEC you have 17 teams in the ACC and the Big 10 is is not the big 10 it's the big 18 now um and you have the Atlantic Coastal conference which expands from spands from Pacific to Atlantic but nothing makes sense in college athletics anymore let's just put it out there so they they added UCF BYU Cincinnati and Houston last year this year in comes Colorado and Deion Sanders Arizona Arizona State and Utah um they're all going to play nine conference games alongside the Big 10 we can have that discussion too if you want to talk about however many conference games they they want to play um because the SEC and the ACC are only playing eight conference games my my whole thought with with the conference games is I don't really care but that's something where we can go back to to our conversation that we were just having about if you have a a single governing body everybody would play by the same rules which means you're playing the same number of conference games right yeah a couple of things here I guess you know this is probably more talk we should have had I don't think we were actually doing the podcast back then but when it was announced that they they were expanding into um the teams that are welcoming in from the Pack 12 I think that is a good step for the Big 12 obviously losing Texas and Oklahoma's a killer there there's no denying that but the teams you mentioned that came into the conference a year ago Houston BYU UCF and Cincinnati that's a serious step back in terms of relevance for the conference and say what you will but Colorado Arizona Arizona State and Utah um that that that's moving back in the direction you needed it to move so I I do think it's good that that they were able to accomplish that uh that being said um there are almost no rivalries in this conference you and I were talking about it beforehand uh you you can force whatever fake name or fake trophy game you want but with the exception of Arizona Arizona State and in in the holy war um there's really just yeah yeah there's just really not a lot of traditional rivalries people are going to care you don't like pharmageddon like I said youate it's throw whatever fake trophy fake name you want in there but no it's not a traditional rivalry and you know I've always felt like you got one big like one big one right and if Iowa Iowa State's the big one then that one can't be so you know that that Kansas Kansas State's the big one then the other ones can't be so um yeah you keep you keep some of them um but it it is odd to see and there's a lot of mixing and matching some of the new teams and some of the old teams ultimately though um it's an underwhelming schedule uh it just is and it's very tough to look at this schedule and say these are going to be the games people are paying attention to on a given week in the background like I like when I look at all right so you know me right I've got the four screen set up here at home how many times are one of these games gonna be higher than TV3 I I I mean you're you're really stretching it you're I mean maybe there's the best games the best games that happen in this conference are with people not in the conference right like I'm looking at Colorado their game with Nebraska I'm interested in just because Nebraska is going to be an interesting team next year color is just and this is where we now get to the amount of conference games um and and say what you will about before you say that it's it's literally only because it's because Texas and Oklahoma are gone they tried to replicate for conference yes the in conf schedule trying to replicate what those two two were that that as far as National relevance is concerned I don't care about UCF UCF doesn't care about playing BYU or or maybe they do Cincinnati because of their old American days but UCF versus Arizona I don't care about that you talk about Utah versus Houston okay like great I mean like they're they're they're fun college football games I BYU Utah is relevant just because it's the holy war but Texas versus Kansas State was an exciting game because Texas it's Texas that's why Oklahom let me ask you this question here's the question to that's it you were in a situation over the past number of years in the Big 12 where if you beat Texas or you beat Oklahoma it almost made your season meaning there is no team now in the conference where you're like if you beat them that made your season like like that that team doesn't exist anymore or it might change year to year if you beat Texas whether they were up or down it didn't matter you beat Texas there is no there is no team in there yeah there's no team like that Blue Blood every conference had a blue blood like you go to the Pack 12 it's USC it's yeah it's an Oregon or it's like and then the other ones change but they're also not they were like the low the lowest of the level the Big 12 obviously it's Oklahoma and Texas the SEC it's it changes by the year of course but it's Alabama and Georgia and and those kinds of teams right they have a lot of them uh and then you go to the Big 10 and it's Penn State it's Michigan it's it's Ohio State it's consistent like those are your top programs and you know who those teams are and whenever those teams play people are going to be tuning in whether you're a fan of that program or you're you hate that program you know and right now in the Big 12 there's no juice like there's nothing that gets me excited now can I get into the conference schedule you can get into the here's the thing here's the thing is but the argument you just made is why they should be in line with the SEC on a nine game schedule because I would be infinitely more interested in Utah playing Wisconsin or or whoever BYU playing UNC uh like the extra conference game doesn't give you any juice whereas I think playing a non-conference game would give you a little bit more juice especially if you can get it against the top tier programs in other conferences and I think that's what we've seen out of the SEC and this is the concern about these 10 game conference schedules and and look maybe it'll be different we don't know the landscape necessarily how it would play out with a 12 team playoff and how having one loss or two losses doesn't kill you every year but sure the fact that we have Alabama versus Texas Georgia versus Oregons or Clemson's um you know Virginia Tech and Ohio State I don't know if that but you get my point like the fact that we have those at multiple times in the first say month of the Season whether it's the kickoff game or week two like Alabama Texas was or even some later into September like that only happens because it's a nine-game schedule in my opinion and and I wish the Big 12 um and the ACC would consider that because I would love to see more cross-conference uh RI not rivalries but agreements and and I think that does die down with the big uh with the 10 game schedule you just don't have as many opportunities for that uh and so that that's that's for me I is why I prefer the nine game schedule and look some teams don't schedule the big boys right they use that to schedule scrubs and and and you have to accept that but uh on the national scale I I think being able to schedule power versus Power um is so important and and it just it's so much more relevant than seeing BYU Balor like it it just is and so for me that's that's why I like the nine game schedule and give teams opportunities to get on the national stage a little bit more yeah and and I can't speak completely to all of this but locking in opponents too yeah like whether it's whether it's you know Houston versus uh like Texas Tech or something or Baylor versus TCU and and and that's one of those things like the SEC has done such a fantastic job about this just in particular Georgia and Florida's on Halloween every year then you have the third Saturday in in October and you have um like all of these awesome rivalry games that you know it's like a clock you know it's like and they are going to hit this week and this is what it's going to happen and it's like hey this is that week and you look forward to that game for 365 days and that that's meaningful and in this schedule it's like you kind of lose a lot of that there's just and I and I like where you're getting with that and I think that uh it's an interesting Prospect I'd say for for the Big 12 but I think all of this is temporary It's All Temporary just until we move into the the future of what the college sport is going to look like right now it's just trying to keep your head above water and as it stands right now the Big 12 in the ACC they're doing everything that they can do but I think it's pretty telling when you have your your big releases and everything else and everybody's paying attention to what the SEC and the Big 10 are doing and then you do yours and it's kind of like a footnote on on the story oh you had like you had like Source leaks you know 36 hours before the Georgia schedule like here's one of the games tenness here's one of their games and the whole the whole big 12 got released you're like okay man like they didn't have a special they didn't have a a TV special for I mean you're like okay man cool let's see and looking down the list 164 games and I'm not interested in any of them not not a damn one so yeah that's unfortunately the state the funniest thing is that I like a lot of these big 12 teams we'll watch the game we are big we are football fans we're gonna watch the games yeah but but the draw naturally is is like they're like I say they're treading water but it's like dude they're treading water with with weights attached to their feet right now feels like a lot of noon kickoffs on ESPN too and that's just brutal man I I just or they might be they might be in the fox deal I don't know who whoever the hell is the fox they're on the fox deal just feels like you're not getting much Prime Time coverage where's Big newon kickoff going for any of these games because their other partner is up in the Big 10 and you're going to have Washington and and Michigan playing each other in a rematch of the national championship game and then you have your your old your ex Texas who's going up to to play Michigan and then like there's there's nothing like that there's no juice there's no excitement there's nothing about it and and I think that's just where we stand in this landscape right now I think there's a a lot the next set of conversation I guess is going to be Sen around which conference goes next um then it's looking increasing like the ACC of course you have Florida State that's in their whole debacle with the with the uh with the conference and we we'll see what ends up coming from that but the big 12 I will say this I I just looked at their schedule again and it is probably something they're going to need to can do more of um this year and into next year a lot of games do have like Friday or Saturday availability there's like one or two a week or one every week I I I think for this conference that Friday game I know there's a lot of arguments against playing Friday football we don't need to get into that now but in terms of getting seen on on a a national TV scale um especially if you could start it later in the night right like a nine o'clock kickoff nine Eastern something like that um that that might be something they they take hold of as well I I guess I I don't know like who do you want to watch your sport you a lot of your football fans are bro I go out to a sports bar every Friday night and and have some drinks if you could tell me I can tell them to put on whatever channel is going to be on at 9:30 at night and I can start to watch college football I mean I'm in I guess man I guess I just I feel like Friday is sacred and uh but I guess nothing is sacred of this new new era of college football but we'll see what ends up having we're going to keep you guys updated on everything right here on the college football over podcast throughout the course of the offseason as bitter and long and unfortunate as it is we'll be keep we'll be here to keep your company so make sure you're liked make sure you're subscribed make sure you are tuning in every single time we drop a new episode and we thank you so much for joining us right here on the college football overtime podcast we're going to be seeing you again on Monday morning so make sure you're tuned in right here till next time his name is AB Gordon my name is Garrett Chapman we'll see you Monday