‘Beetlejuice Beetlejuice’ and Top Five Tim Burton Movies | The Big Picture | Ringer Movies

I'm Sean fantasy I'm Amanda do and this is the big picture a conversation show about Beetle Juice Beetle juu I won't be saying it a third time today on the show we're discussing the sequel to Tim Burton's 1988 horror comedy classic we're also picking our five favorite Burton movies and discussing his legacy as a filmmaker joining us van lean hello what's up guys thank you for being here maybe we should say it three times you want to say it well I'm just you know I think the spirit of this conversation is going to be that Beetlejuice himself you want to conjure him yeah cuz we have a great time when he's around that's true so maybe you can say it I don't want to do it you don't want to do it because I don't I've never you know all the stuff that you could do like back in the day like say Bloody Mary in the mirror and like say C's name I was always cuz I would be the one person that would do it and then it would actually happen that's how I always looked at it people would be like go into the thing and do Bloody Mary I was like you go do it I'm not doing any of that stuff I'm very so I feel like I could say Beetlejuice and then later on tonight be show we three saw be juice Beetle Juice just the two times together um and I you did like gasp when a character said it three times like you were like you were literally like oh no I can't believe you did that and I was like we are like actually here to watch the character Beetle Juice appear you know we wanted to see him his name said it and I was like [ __ ] idiot you really did actually do that right uh I think Beetle Juice might be the first time I had that Sensation that you're talking about where you became aware of that kind of like mythology that you're not supposed to be reciting in your own house yeah it's a pretty huge movie we talked about it last week on the Michael Keaton Mount Rushmore again people are just loving it they just that that construction rush so much positive feedback on that thanks to all the listeners for being super Co I do not so uh Shawn came up with the general Mount Rushmore concept well I guess Mount Rushmore did and then Bill and then Sean sure yes Mount Rushmore well bill has been citing Mount rushmor but sure he invented the idea of the four most significant figures in something as a concept who who was like let's carve it into this mountain where what his name is Jim Rushmore and uh he lived in that mountain and one day he thought I will I will begin carving who shall I carve are you bullshitting I was about to say Jim Rush pretty good okay so like a top four okay um and then Bobby threw in a curveball which was that you need to decide which of the four corresponds to which president on Mount Rushmore right so we went through Michael Keaton's whole career and then we picked the four movies that were the most like Washington Roosevelt yeah necessitates both like a knowledge of which four presidents are on Mount Rushmore which which I don't think I could tell you right now well I had a hard time the first time as well guess Washington Roosevelt Jefferson yeah Lincoln correct correct go yeah yeah so we chose Beetlejuice for Jefferson I believe is that right I don't I don't remember maybe also Roosevelt Bob can you check us on this was because everyone's understandings of what those four presidents mean to history in America um is lacking I would say you know yeah yeah yeah so then the people on the internet really love our history they love they think we're not good at hist but that's okay nevertheless Beetle Juice what does what does that movie mean to you and and what were you thinking going into this new one for I was very jazzed because it represents two things number one the continuation of a story that I absolutely loved as a kid like be juice was so funny so amazing I remember Michael Keaton in the Batman movie when he goes you want to get nuts come on and when he does the come on I'm like that's Beetle Juice that just popped out of Michael Keaton right there I loved it and it also is very important to the Michael Keaton Resurgence that we've seen I guess since bman I mean he was always around but he really came back strong and it's been so good to see him back so this movie coming back is kind of indicative of that too so I was very excited to see it it's like the Capstone to this 10 year run that he's had because bird Birdman was 2014 he had Spotlight we talked about this kind of Latter half you know obviously he was the vulture and the Spider-Man movies it's been pretty much ever presentes in our lives this feels like the culmination of that third wave of Katon sort of but really of the of the comeback yeah so you talked a little bit about Beetlejuice you like beetle juu you've been mocking my anticipation for this film for months yeah and just again to make sure Van's up to date okay this is because when Shawn went to cinemacon which is Sha's version of ComicCon oh in Las Vegas yeah that's a good Des he sent me and Chris a lot of texts being like the word on the ground is Beetle Juice beetle juu is back is that tracking with what you're hearing it was like some of the most Preposterous time I mean there thank you was the correct word on the ground beetle ju Beetle Juice and he was literally like does this track with what you guys are hearing and this is like April and you know at like 400m and Chris and I are just you know trying to get through the day uh so yeah we've been making fun of him and his hype meter but the truth is people are really anticipating this it's tracking like incredibly very high very high it opened the Venice Film Festival which was really me getting some of my own Karma back an astounding four minute standing over no no no I think it was three three minutes jez Lou which is like being spit in the face yeah I mean obviously I was hyping up the way that the uh the studios were talking about this movie which they thought it would be a big hit when I was at that event personally you know I have a complicated relationship to Legacy sequels like this we did talk about top gun Maverick being a good example of something like this it's hard though one just for the actors to be alive this many years later the fact that most of the cast is around and available to reprise their roles also the filmmaker is back for this that's also something that doesn't usually happen when we make make another movie like this you know famously Tony Scott was not alive when top gun Maverick was made yeah so I love Tim Burton in theory although I have not loved a movie of his for a long time I was very tentative about this movie I don't think my expectations were super high despite liking what I saw out of the trailers you were excited yeah so when you're growing up in in the age that I am Tim Burton is the first director that's like oh I see movie I know he did it he's the first quirky guy with the style I was just talking to someone about this he's the person who basically made you understand otor Theory because you're like he has a look a feel things he's interested in yes yeah like you see like uh peewee's big adventure and you're like oh my God that movie is a little odd right and then you see Batman and then you see Beetlejuice and you go oh that guy makes movies like that so that's very very important to be able to identify that like he's like it's especially if you really love film he's very important to your development and how you look and then you start saying oh I can see when Michael man makes a movie I can see when spilberg makes a movie you start to be able to like notice that so just to see him back and doing something that I was interested in was very important because I completely punted on Tim Burton for a while now I go I will get a lot more into it but also like B juice is one of those weird one-offs where you wonder why they haven't come back to it before now it was it was a a movie that like was super interesting think of the premise of the movie a newly dead couple figuring out the afterlife it's just like super intoxicating especially around that time they didn't do anything else with it everybody went on to have great careers and they never came back to it and seeing them do it now I just wanted want to see what they were going to cook up yeah I think it's specifically the idea of the World building of what the afterlife is the idea of it as a bureaucracy and all these moving Parts you know they that's a pretty that's like a 100 an hour and 40 minute movie and they're packs in a lot of information into it they did try to make a version of this movie many times there were particularly two versions of a Beetle Juice sequel that were in development for a long time the first was called beetle juu in love which started as early as 1990 never quite got off the ground but that's interesting information for what we're about to discuss it is the second was called I think Beetlejuice goes to Hawaii which was meant to be like a surf movie from the ' 50s but with Beetlejuice and it would be this idea of the German expressionism clashing with the surf movie those two movies never really came to fruition they went back to Beetle Juice goes to Hawaii like 10 or 15 years later and looked at it cut to 2011 Seth Graham Smith who you know worked on Abraham Lincoln vampire Hunter is that what it's called I can't even remember if that was the name of be honest with you he he wrote uh hate to hear this Tim Burton's Dark Shadows he started working on a second Beetle juu movie you're going to hate to hear this I [ __ ] love that [ __ ] no that movie is terrible in fact I [ __ ] love Sean I [ __ ] [ __ ] love that dumbass [ __ ] let me let me bring It full full circle that that dumb I [ __ ] like that guy I love that dumb ass that guy Benjamin I know I was literally just Googling Benjamin Walker where are you now yeah so I edited a review of that movie written for Gran and.com written by her husband Zach Baron and I had to convince him to go see the movie because I was he doesn't love horror and I was like I think this movie might be a thing lo and behold his skepticism was proven right it was not a thing until this very moment when you tried to reclaim it for the culture uh we will not be reclaiming that mie oh he's apparently on the rings of power oh good for him good he's uh he plays the high King Of The nooran Elves AR so much shade with the way you read that I wanted to get it right man you guys know you guys know about that AR who is Gil galad g g g keep keep trying keep going uh before you arrived at the movie theater last night van and I were sitting together watching trailers and the trailer for Lord of the Rings calling the war of the for the rerum came on had no idea what it was and then I was like this is going to be cool he's going to get to see that there's a new Lord of the Rings movie Al be animated and then you just blank me you were like I'm not interested in this I don't have this a blind spot blind either yeah like Joe's gonna hate this she hates the way I throw a little shade Joe is my Joe is my lore mom she's my lore Queen yeah so I go to Joe for all of this stuff but like Lord of The reigns is a blind spot I don't care I'm with you and I think that's okay yeah it's like people have their worlds that they're into but I you know the hobbits they sing I don't know tree people I you know stuff those both anyway that's where Benjamin Walker is uh anyhow Seth Graham Smith who wrote Dark Shadows uh started working on a story that eventually became this movie more screenwriters came in and so we have Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Amanda what did you think of the movie I had a nice time as I said to Van When the Lights Went lights went up that was a lot there's a lot that they crammed in there and it seems like they crammed in Beetlejuice in love not Hawaii which is sad maybe I would have liked that but every single reference uh every single plotline that has maybe been uh tossed around in a text message in the last 36 years and not all of it was necessary and it felt over stuffed at time but listen like I was giggling I you guys were giggling you know I couldn't like see you Sean but I could hear you laughing like a lot so I I've had a way worse times in the movies this year especially with movies like this had you fa similarly yeah it I've never been in a movie or I haven't been in the movie for a long time that was that close to sucking that ended up being good yeah like it was really right on the cusp of like what the hell man and then it flipped and the movie became like one of the most fun times uh that I had but it was bogged down there were three or four stories lines going at the same time some stuff didn't make any sense and there's actually the movie is good like I had a fun time but there's actually like a great movie in there yes which is kind of a frustrating you said that right after the screen and that's kind of how I feel I think this is a pretty mixed bag and the things that you think are going to be good in this movie are clearly Good Michael Keaton for example as Beetlejuice every time he shows up in the movie the movie comes to life you know which I guess is ironic since he is a bio Exorcist but uh I totally agree with Amanda there's a lot of characters in this movie and there's a lot there's not as much editing there could have been some a lot of actors that I like as well great I mean it's a it's a great great great cast it's you know reprising their roles Michael Keaton wi and Ryder Katherine O'Hara plus you've also got this new big young star Jenna Ortega she's got her own storyline you've got Justin theu he's got a big storyline Monica beluchi shows up she's got a storyline William defo shows up he's got a storyline well does he but whatever he's there it's always nice to see William defo but his character is one that probably could have been ex he doesn't have a story line but I'm happy that he's there he's just I've never seen him that way before you that way but he's funny I've never I've literally I can't I tried to think when I got home what's the funniest William defo like performance before that I've never seen him that way before he was legitimately funny reminded me a little bit of what he does in Wes Anderson movies you know where he's very big and Broad you know like in Life Aquatic or Grand Budapest but he's very funny in this movie you know it takes place 36 years after the original just like in real life we're following the Deets family again we learn very early on in the movie that Charles Deets the patter familius has been killed in a shark accident after his plane crashed this has been done because Jeffrey Jones the actor who portrayed Charles in the original film has been shoot has been charged and convicted of sex crimes and is not a person you'll ever seen in an American movie more than likely yeah so they animate him and then show his death as a shark and then in the film we see I think pretty humorously him being a half person with no head and shoulders yes exactly and we see him in the sort of the afterlife but that event which happens very early on in the film is sort of the orienting event because his funeral and this Gathering returns everyone to Winter river is that the name of the town in Connecticut where they all live used to live and that leads to eventually um the the return of a a Beetle Juice figure and all of the characters that are introduced throughout this film colliding with each other I I think I I I I think I struggled maybe with this you guys with with this movie a little bit more than you guys okay because I mean because you've been living with it for months and months on end you I think I think it's a little bit of the problem that a lot of grown-up adults have when they see new versions of things that they liked when they were kids which is we already have Beetle Juice right and every time they tried to do something that was like What if it was also like this I was like well that's just not as good as the thing that I saw before I don't know if that's like a sophisticated level of criticism but something was just kind of Na at the back of my neck while I was watching the movie I was like this isn't totally right this doesn't feel exact I laughed oh you're you're 100% correct without without a doubt yeah like it because the only character that they're only two characters in the movie that seem like they exist in the same world that we saw before and it's to me it's Beetle juu and it's Katherine o'harris character who she's is even the way she long blinks and very very very small things that she did in the first movie they seem like they're in the same movie everybody else it feels like and that this is a very overused term it feels like cosplay a little bit like Ju Just a little bit and it took me a while it's not to the movie get super duper zany it took me a while to fall back into the world that was created in 88 there's nothing I think you're absolutely right in that to be honest with you right well there also I think some of that is the construction of the movie where maybe they think they're trying to ease you back in but Lydia when on writer's character is basically doing Burton cosplay and is a YouTube well she's a TV star but you know she's basically a ghost hunter style right and they're making a very cheap show and it's like sort of a sendup of like the culture that has emerged from Beetle Juice and also like our current moment so it feels like a little it's supposed to feel a little fake and there's something else that happens as well with with these movies to me and it's just a difference in the way that the movies would like appro the way we approach filming now is from back in the good old days when bej first came out the characters that were the Deeds family they took themselves seriously they weren't like like the Justin thorough character in this movie isn't a real person like it's not a it's a it's it's a very Broad and zany yeah but like oo and the dad and the mom and all of these people they were yepy sort of pretentious whatever but they were serious to themselves they were like it was actually there was a the realism of who they were and The Clash of them and the maitlin family is what kind of made the movie work but while all these characters now they're kind of syn of people and they're playing it in a very on the way the priest um who that guy I don't know that guy's name but Gorman but he's been in a very familiar guy yeah yeah and so like for that it kind of was like a it was like sketch comedy in a way I I I agree tot agree I think the other thing to consider is that the original film is at least at the outset of the movie very much Adam and Barbara Maitland's movie two characters who I think we were all kind of waiting to show up in this movie and then don't show up I don't think that's a spoiler to say that but they were played by Alec bald and G and Davis and they were sort of our you know POV characters our sort of portal into this new world as newly dead people exploring and figuring out all of this stuff this movie is more focused on the de's and even though I agree with you that they are grounded in that first film they're still odd they're odd for sure they're odd but sincerely odd sincerely odd but and if you play them bigger then the movie feels more like a certainly more like a comedy than like a horror movie you know Beetlejuice at times the original film scary and strange you don't really know where it's going especially if you're younger this movie just felt almost parodic almost like like a self-aware exploration of the Beetlejuice mythology now there are always some things in movies like this that I'm going to enjoy like every Tim Burton movie is some sort of active homage to a movie history like if you look at you know it's like he with Big Adventures like Dorothy and Wizard of Oz you know like Batman is like the cabinet of Dr Caligari this is a movie that's like basically an Italian horror movie there's long literally a long Italian homage to a Mario Bava movie and then 5 minutes later they literally say the name Mario Bava you know Film Festival I like right that he always does that I like that he's always like don't forget about Vincent Price don't forget about the history of horror in movies and what all this stuff means but it it actually felt worse in a movie like this which is just more of a broad Studio comedy to shoehorn in some of that personal eccentricity and I I wonder if you know the 10 or 15 years in the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and the Dumbo and the all that stuff has kind of like LED Tim Burton down a path he can never stray from now does that seem unfair to you no it seems like an accurate reading and it also just seems like an effort to broaden the audience you know this is positioned at people who saw Beetle Juice when they were young right we were all was 36 years ago and then they're also hoping that those like we will bring the Next Generation which is why Jenna Ortega is in it which is why there's like a weird phone Tik Tok stunt in it which is why you know so I think that there is something very conscious about being I I want to do my Tim Burton stuff but I also have been making broad or hopefully broad Studio movies for the past 20 years so you know let's let's enact the reference but also then say the name of the reference just to make sure that you know the new people learn and there's I mean the entire first 30 minutes with like the true CRA you know Ghost Hunter spooky stuff and the internet and all that is like hey kids here's something for you so it's natural to be disappointed in that I think the thing that's most like that and I'm curious for your opinions is just the presence of Jenna Ortega who is a genuine jenz star superstar we've had some debate about her in over the last couple years about like how much of a star she actually is I don't know if you what were your thoughts on her I went to a friend of mine's house and uh in New York and his daughter comes down a daughter's 15 16 years old and she's wearing a g Ortega shirt and I was like oh like a shirt with the actress on there right and she's like a shirt that Amanda was wearing this week with Josh hard Net's face on it wow thank you it was actually five Jos faces you're happy he's back he's back by the way I I know I was leading charch I'm trying he was one of the top wait a minute what where's that guy like he literally look like what happened to him he did he went off and raised a family yeah in the UK he's got four kids yeah oh for real yeah good for him and then he comes back and oh that's a guy remember that guy like oh it's Josh we like him he's good yeah he's good he can do a lot of different stuff um and so I asked her about it and this is uh Leon woman is a big horror fan we were talking about me and her seeing terrifier 3 we talked about terrifier 2 we talked about terrifier one yes and so when are we seen terrifier 3 I we're going to see I mean whenever it drops I'll go see it yeah let's go yeah I'm Terri is not coming yeah I got art the clown art the clown okay it's my guy so so we were talking about your guy so this is what I'll say that's dangerous danger terrifier three right now it is it is dangerous I'll tell you why but like if I'm GNA do horror it it can't be anything Supernatural and this is gonna sound so stupid Sean yeah it can't be anything Supernatural with like the nun and Jesus stuff and all of that stuff cuz I believe that that stuff is real okay so right you know I mean so so but you don't believe that a strange Drifter who dresses like a clown and serial murders dozens of people is real because that is real but I got guns at the [ __ ] so so you know what I mean so like she prepared so so you know what I mean so AR the clown can get clapped yeah but like the nun Exorcist all of that type of stuff that you can't do anything about I don't really want to because I believe that that stuff is real you know what I mean it's a it's a good take so terrifier three I can go see it cuz arur Clown I'll put some on your ass you know but but so but when I talked to her about Jenna Ortega uhuh she woried her because of Wednesday because of what because of Wednesday because of she's she's a horror fan because of scream because of the the T West movie like be like so so she really was into her and she is out here like her press run has been incredible of just throwing out like Arcane film references and then when Nona is like we waiting for Jenna Ortega like the true Next Generation Cen aile to come along she was like my favorite movie is possession I was like I'm a Jenna Ortega fan it's almost in a way that I haven't seen her like a young star resonate there's a little bit of it with Florence Pew but like a young female star resonate with an audience in a while I actually think it's real because I heard it directly from the kids yeah I mean the person that reminds me a little bit of is whenona rer I mean you know W ryer very similarly especially at the time of beetle je is somebody who became like instantly canonical in the history of uh young Hollywood actresses where she had a very distinct style she was sort of like the goth icon she is somebody who very quickly sought out working with great actors worked with Copo worked with scorsi like you know spent a lot of time talking about what a copile she was she was recently in the Criterion closet amazing episode of the Criterion closet Winona still just absolutely just the best like a very important woman to me in the world and frankly she should be uh very quietly subliminally taking down Millie Bobby Brown which is really what all those comments are about about how it's true she doesn't watch movies and Jenna Ortega does watch movies and therefore Jenna Orga is superior that's basically what that whole press campaign was about it was really really funny um wiona I think uh I think she's pretty good in this movie I didn't really I don't she's definitely not on the level of Michael Keaton just sliding right back into Beetlejuice it's it's amazing that Katon be because because of the makeup it is like no time has passed I'm like oh you look the same and you're still is agile and the timing is like I mean it's so funny and there is something about cuz you are waiting so long for him to show up and man that was one thing another thing you said when we walked out was like he's not in it that much yeah which he's also not in the first one that much which I I I watched it when I got home and I had no concept of until you actually said it right because the movie feels like if in that movie it feels like he was lurking around every corner and in this movie it does doesn't quite feel that way you're right you're right it's a good point there there's this sort of like um suggestion that someone is coming someone is coming someone is coming throughout the first film and this film it's like I mean of course everybody's here and he's going to be here any minute now and in fact the movie does something that I thought it was a funny set piece but I thought was a mistake which was that he's introduced in the movie A little bit earlier than it felt like he should have been with the couple's therapy moment where Justin the's character is the first one to say Beetle Juice times and then they get sent into the uh the sort of the underworld with him and I think if they had waited until the moment when when Ona Ryder's character is trying to save her daughter and then she in an act of desperation knows she needs to go to Beetle je yeah just from a pure like narrative Movie experience I think that would have been like a much bigger payoff for us to finally get to see Katon 49 minutes into the you know what I'm saying yes but also you can't make a sequel called I mean like I mean it's just sort of there is like an existential problem within a sequel to Beetle juu when all everybody wants is more Beetle Juice but of course what made the original so magic was like the like very like sparing restrained but also overthe toop hilarious use of Beetle Juice so you know what are you supposed to do on the Tim Burton front I'll say this there's one thing in this movie and I don't want to pick on this character or this actress because I love her there's one thing in this movie that to me is indicative of the difference in Tim Burton 88 and Tim Burton now is Monica beluchi being in this movie like that's his girlfriend right yeah and so a man who is famed for putting his girlfriend in his movies L to put his girlfriend in his movies Lisa Marie Helen Dev vum Carter they always play play a role in his movies right that's his that's his girlfriend like in 88 he wasn't to the point to where he could just plop his girlfriend in the movie right and with a lot of times with directors as their as they age it's actually about controlling how big and how much ego and how much of them they can put in their films and how dedicated they are to just the story that they're trying to tell especially the greats now most directors you give them more leash you get more good stuff but there's always a better version of the movie that they're trying to make to me and the best version of this movie just does not have Monica beluchi in it it's true it it just it it it doesn't like it's always good to see her impossibly beautiful she's always charismatic on screen but if You Yank her out of this movie it's probably a easier story to tell and I honestly did not realize they were dating like I went home and looked up the movie to to do some and I'm like oh at this point he's to the point where no one can no one can't tell him not to put his girlan they need him to make the movie that's the thing it's like you kind of can't make a Beetle Juice movie without Burton I will say the introduction of her character who is the sort of I guess ex-wife of the beetle juu character um the introduction is really cool so like that was very Beetle juicy the sort of like reconstruction of her body after the boxes fall off the ground when janit or Danny DeVito walks through but I think I I agree I I talked to somebody yesterday who saw the movie too and was just like this is extraneous like we don't need this it's true though it also does set up like you said that four minute you know Italian horror omage which was really good there are a lot of just like very cool artistic sequences within the movie that it's like well did we really need this to like the story line of Beetle Juice Beetle Juice no but also like at some point are we here for the storyline of Beetle Juice Beetle juu or are we here for the so I completely agree with you and like it's unfair to Monica beluchi because obviously she looks beautiful but most of the time she's just like walking around silently in hallways it's like they couldn't true respectfully that's all she's doing they couldn't decide which movie they wanted to make either movie because we haven't even talked about dead boy uh uh oh the teenager Jeremy Jeremy so either movie if we're doing a movie now where Beetlejuice is the prey for the entire thing and then Lydia that's so awesome as a premise right I totally agree and then if we do a movie where the the dead boyfriend shows up earlier in the film and then Beetle Juice has to and then that whole thing that is also awesome but they tried to do them both and they clunky together I completely agree totally agree plus then Justin thorough is there as like a reality TV producer yes I will say the the Jeremy plotline I wanted to discuss with you guys yeah so Arthur Ki is this young actor who play as a boy who Jenna oras character meets cute the way that you do when you're an alienated teenager and you come across you know a soul match she meets she crashes her bike through the fence and into tree Tre and he's in a tree house no Bruce looked like quite a spill too hit her face directly on the tree she's chilling okay so this guy I'm learning is on House of the Dragon he is well he was only in one well I Googled it that's where I know him from I kept trying to I kept trying to figure it out no wikipedia page where him yet people need to get on that so Arthur kti and Jenna Ortigas characters they start this teen romance and I told this to you guys last night when this sequence started happening in the movie I was like get me the [ __ ] out of here I was like what kind of [ __ ] stranger things appeal to 14year olds is happening in my Beetle juu movie and then credit to the screenwriters and Tim Burton they were like that's not what we're doing at all in fact this is something completely different and this character is not at all what you thought he was um I was like you know in that rare state of Sean Panic like movie Panic where I was like you [ __ ] me on this Beetlejuice Beetlejuice um but they didn't there's also something like so like very Primal like 11-year-old Sean being like I don't want to see people [ __ ] kiss right now well it was also like the CER Rose uh needle drop and you know like all this like indie rock turn to yell physical media no I because he was talking about his record collection and the book that he picked up that is like the handbook for dying Amanda he was a gas at the needle drop when they were droing he was like have you ever seen him drop like a pop movie a pop music reference in a movie like this well Timber never does that I think it was a Mazy Star song while she's riding on her bike through the town and I was like what is this is not Tim Burton where the [ __ ] are we right now we like we're on an episode of uh the year I turned pretty or whatever the [ __ ] that show is called um but fortunately that isn't what happened uh I actually really liked what they did there and I I guess on the plus side the movie has a pretty good sense of humor about dispatching with all these extraneous side plots you know like the way that all these characters get eliminated from the movie is very quick and very funny well okay but also like are you allowed to do that all to do what can we talk about the we're doing spoilers at this point okay we're spoiling a moment from the film Beetle Juice Beetle Juice now like when the sandw worm showed up I was like what are what are we doing here copyright wise you know like I had wondered that years ago because obviously the sandworms feel like an homage to Dune the David Lynch Dune is 84 Beetle Juice Beetle Juice is 88 at the time it felt like it was I had no concept what Doom was when bej juice dropped zero concept as a matter of fact the first time I ever put it together was in this movie when they literally have the ground shaking started doing but like during that time I had no concept of it I stood up saluted and said shy halud when they when they what I'm talking about I like that movie doing part two yeah great film and part one um overall might have overstated how many times I saw it I think it was only I think you said it was 12 it wasn't how many was it I can I can only actually remember it was [ __ ] I like I got to I could only actually remember now it might be 12 now but in theaters cuz me and Kika just running a loop I can only actually remember six times okay six times six that's pretty good it is I have no idea why you said 12 when you said 12 I was like that just doesn't seem possible yeah it was me over my skis it happen Okay well sometimes I say sometimes I you know I mean look it's you got to bring the energy up are you saying you're an untrustworthy Source on podcast I am a very trustworthy Source I'm a trustworthy in the energy but sometimes in the details you might need to check on interesting okay we'll keep that in mind uh what did you guys think of the big closing musical number I mean I I enjoyed it you know but that's like why I like going to the movies and it's funny um and I liked the homage to the things that I like about the original um but it was also like oh you're doing this again at Great length yes so I wondered which thing they would definitely bring back uh like it it so in Top Gun Maverick there is volleyball there is well well it's it's football it's football football dog fight dog fight football yeah sure yes which is definitely a real thing in a legacy sequel not in all of them right cuz Blade Runner they didn't [ __ ] do it but like in a lot of the Harrison Ford was in that right in a lot of the Legacy sequels they do it I wondered which thing it would be from bej juu as they would do again and I should have expected that it would be that it totally worked for me yeah I enjoyed it too good song Choice yeah yeah and we won't spoil it for people who haven't seen it also it's just there's like a lot of Katon really letting loose agreed this is a this is a pretty fun it's like a six out of 10 five out of 10 kind of situation for me fun fun fun but also like if you were looking forward to seeing Beetlejuice Beetlejuice in theaters because the original meant something to you and you're like I'm going to go you'll have a good time you know I agree it's it's it's a well-made legacy sequel it doesn't depend too much on the you know hey remember when this happened remember when this happened there's some of it you know there are sandworms there's there's singal along music but um and it's not it's thankfully not uh I don't know Outer Banks season 3 that's what I was afraid of you know do you even know what happens on Outer Banks the TV series yeah I think like beautiful young people between the ages of 15 and 25 get into Tor Affairs right but it's like a reality show right it's scripted oh it's scripted yeah oh I never realized that okay man I've never seen a second of it nor have I what wa aren't they trying to but they're trying to find thought it was like Laguna Beach but you know I I don't think so I think what van is saying is correct Laguna Beach what a time in life you enjoy that show bro those are my whites I like I'm telling you man there were better whites back then those are my whites Stephen LC Lauren I once was playing I I once played basketball with Stephen kle he came in the gym I was trying to get this [ __ ] shots I was setting screens for him that was Peak remember blow followed me on Twitter like eight years ago and it was one of the Great Moments who was the boyfriend his name was Bobby something uh Bobby O or something like that was a crazy guy some kind of crazy dude that came on there as the boyfriend to one of them later on I thought that was audrina's boyfriend yeah but it was Bobby yeah yeah I know who you're talking about but I do also thought that was a Hills Adrina situation maybe it's the hills but all of that's together this is when we're talking about lagona Beach the hills now to0 Melrose Place these are all do you keep up with them like are you up on what's going on with Christ Larry these days nah okay I did the podcast from what's herface uh and her husband Spencer and Heidi yes oh sure yeah yeah yeah yeah I did I did their podcast it's very fun to hang out with them they seem regular but that was an ERA to me that was a great era yeah really formative yeah for sure I have no idea how to bring that back to Tim Burton like literally no clue I can't think of two things that have less to do with each other then lagona Beach well they're all they are um California how about that well I was gonna say like very particular deeply defined Aesthetics and a world unto their own oh that's good you're you're really looking at the text yeah yeah that's good I've always um found it extremely funny that Tim Burton is from Burbank it is funny she you think he's from Castle like Transylvania Castlevania bro maybe Germany at worst this is one of my most formative memories here okay this is one of my most formative memories once again van loves to be nostalgic I came from a better time in movies I was born in a better time it's just facts it used to on HBO there used to be the making of the movie I love this and you would sit down and you would watch the making of the movie and Tim Burton say something I will never forget when they were talking about Edward Scissor Hands Tim Burton says uh well I'm from a place called Burbank California and in this place everything looks the same and there are no seasons and I like he said this when he was talking about the making of Edward Scissor Hands and I was like [ __ ] like what do you mean he says all the houses look the same there are no Seasons it stays the way that it is all the time so when you inject Edward Scissor Hands even when Edward is making it snow and all of that stuff he's making a movie about the town of of his childhood and essentially putting himself how he viewed himself into the movie and it just kind of like changed my perception of everything so when I think about the fact that he's from burbeck now I think about every film is him creating a world much more Dynamic and Visually pleasing than the one that he grew up with he felt like the outcast he keeps telling that same story over and over and over again I will just never forget that he said that because it made him as a filmmaker and that movie makes so much more sense like cuz if I didn't know what Burbank was like I I had no clue and then I got out to California I'm driving around I'm like oh this [ __ ] is telling the truth it's like everything looks the same and there no season shout out to Burbank but you know like that's what I think about when I think about him being from there I think you just basically nailed the theory of his film making point of view which is that he is a person who is without a country without uh a tribe without a group of people who understand him and almost I would say 95% of his lead characters are in those predicaments and that's the world that they end but also a product of Burbank and of like you know because there is the home of Disney Something accessible and um you he's been raised in Hollywood you know and it it's so he is always and sometimes you get Beetlejuice and sometimes you get you know Dark Shadows or whatever but um a child of popular culture exactly yeah yeah somebody who has consumed a lot of movies and television is filtering it through you know we talk about that with folks like Tarantino um you know in Saturday Night the new Saturday Night Live movie there's a moment where Lauren Michaels turns to network of Executives and says this is the first TV show made by the generation that was raised on TV and you know it's a phrase I think has been uttered about Saturday Saturday Night Live before but trenching and also very true of Tim Burton is somebody who's like really the first post horror horror stylist you know somebody who's basically taking what happens in horror movies and hor horror storytelling from the 40s through the 70s and then it's like here's my essentially like Disney informed pop Network television informed extrapolation of that colliding with whatever High art whatever animation Styles you like or whatever kind of you know International Film making you like but you know guy who worked at Disney as a as a story uh concept artist and a storyboarding artist and in those late 70s and early 80s Disney movies he was there in the building for a lot of that stuff and really struggled to get his Visions into those movies and then effectively like starts making shorts and sets out on his own to make his own movies but that that friction between the commercial and the the The Outsider Art is what makes him I think really really special but the fact that he can't translate it to like a broader audience because I would say for our generation and like certainly for me he was he was like creepy aesthetic you know that's how I learned about that was yeah horror movies like and all of these references and he was taking the 40s and 50s in this Grand tradition and marrying it with like certainly a like a visual style that was new and comp but like familiar to people who had Grown Up on Disney um or just more approachable and so then he creates like you know kind of like Whimsy horror for for generation yeah Peewee is a kids movie yeah it it works as a kids movie now there are some terrifying Parts in the movie Large Marge it's it was scary to me like you know I mean there's some there's some scary parts but that's works like as a kid's movie but it also has the sensibility of there being something just a little bit more Sinister in there it feels like it takes place in a different version of Earth so like you're you're a little bit off balance but by the time they round it around and James Brolin is at the movie in the movie at the end it ends in a very Disney way and like he pipeline right he's a cal Arts guy right like so he's he's pipelined all the way through like a Disney Legend but uh just weird enough just weird enough to be not totally mainstream with what he was doing but also very mainstream I think that the the Disney part of it is is really really important I this is all top of mind because I've been watching so many Disney Classics with my daughter over the last year and we had this really funny experience where we went to Disneyland a couple months ago and she had a great time and every ride was great and you know she's running all through the park except we got online for the Snow White ride the Snow White ride is inside and sort of like a tram ride that you ride in and we got right to the front of the line and I'm sure if she hears this 20 now 20 years from now she'll be embarrassed but she got scared and she was like I don't want to go on this ride take me away from this ride and she got really upset because that little moment with the when the wicked Queen turns herself into an old Crome to a little kid is really scary or if you watch Sleeping Beauty the last minutes Maleficent when she turns into a dragon is really she is scary those movies get intense they get very very scary and you can feel him you can feel his interest in those movies as a kid like filtered into these movies so he's like Towing this line between how scary do I want to make large Marge versus how fun and Whimsical do I want to make peewee's adventure and you know tap dancing his way through biker bars um so it makes a just a a wholly unique blend it's funny I was rewatching Ed Wood last night the movie that I've always loved and that's a Disney movie Touchstone picked that movie up because another Studio wouldn't take it and it's almost him like circling the square on his career where he's like I'm gonna make an homage to a trash film artist for the biggest most historical children's movie studio which more or less fired me off of their animation team you know like it it always feels like he's having these recurrences in his career Beetle Juice Beetle Juice being most recent occurrence but even the failure of a movie like Dumbo is fascinating because that clearly set him on like a new course where he was like I'll never work at Disney again I won't compromise my vision it leads to him doing Wednesday it leads to him doing this movie I would do wish he would try to do one more Edwood style film for adults um I don't know if that's something that interests him anymore he's gotten very rich and very successful making things for angsty 14year olds but um his first eight movies is as good a first eight movie run as I can think of in the history of Hollywood I I you know certainly there are like people like kurawa and Hitchcock who you know have remarkable careers in their filmographies way outmatch Tim Burton but the first eight movies and what they say about what he what the world means to him and what it's going to mean to us is pretty astounding and definitely shaped my taste as a movie watch can I ask you a question are you counting nightmar Before Christmas in that I because then I'm just wondering what like I think it stops at Sleepy Hollow okay and I would say Sleepy Hollow is the first movie of his that I find to be half successful right you know so maybe if we include maybe it's the first eight and a half movies if you want to include nightm for Christ well I mean I was just you know asking whether I was wondering if it should be eligible for top fives because nightm for Christmas of course is a movie that Tim produced but did not direct it's directed by Henry Cel like the stop motion animation very very common for people to make that mistake to think that he directed it because isn't the isn't it Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas and he's at that point in his career where he's made the Batman movies you could sell an animated movie and you know as a person who's probably getting ready to buy some Jack Skellington toys for his daughter like that movie still is super powerful a house in our neighborhood has like a 12 foot Jack Skellington that is that we visit every Christmas my son loves it hello man you know your son talks to it yeah yeah he he's like you got to tell him his name is Jack we got we go see the man yeah we're working on names right now you know right now it's it's very like this will you know I will name this bear I will name this man so um what do you what do you think of my eight movie Theory um when you look at it's pretty unimpeachable you go you go from peeee to Beetlejuice to Batman to Edward Scissor Hands I mean you it's just smoking to Batman return overated great movieovie like great movie I I can see why Warner Brothers balked at it because he was on some [ __ ] like he was he decided that he was going to take the character in a different way make the movie darker like penguin is insanely difficult to look at throughout the disg disgusting to look at but then there's Michelle feifer so come on now listen don't get me started we are going to get started we will be talking about it if we're doing top five get me started uh and then Edwood and you you end at Mars Attacks so I think Mars Attacks is a great success that is maybe a slightly controversial opinion a little bit I rewatched it okay in preparation for this and it's a real admire all of the ideas and everyone swing in for the fences and again like incredible cast everyone wants to work with Tim Burton truly insane cast yeah and I some of it is just that the you know the effects and that there's like a age even though it's doing like a very specific animation thing that is I don't know I just it's it's a lot by the end when the ships are zooming around and I got to watch the war for a long time and I'm like all right okay I get it I have a theory there's never been a movie that has this many people in it that is totally good like movies like it's a mad mad world and all of those movies like that there's never been a movie that has maybe if you do like what were some of those movies back in the day like uh when they were Tower Inferno Towering Inferno adventure maybe some of those I mean this Mars attack Valentine's Day valent see see I'm saying Valentine's Day us not good they're bad right like there's not a lot of movies that have all of those people in them that are that are good because you just you sacrifice a little bit something in the way of the movie when there's a different guy that you know like that that's popping up every half scene so we talked about disaster movies when we talked about Twisters on the show I didn't include Mars Attacks because they're aliens in Mars Attacks but Mars Attacks is this very clear marriage between schlocky 50s sci-fi right and 70s disaster movies the reason it's a movie that has Jack Nicholson Annette Benning Pam Greer Jim Brown Pierce broen Sarah Jessica Parker Michael J Fox like like you said a crazy cast is because it's you know kind of lovingly lampooning those kinds of movies I think I I felt like I got the joke when I was 14 and I was like this is such a good idea for a movie I mean it's also impeccably like it looks awesome it looks awesome yeah um and you can be like a fan of the animation or not but it looks so good and it's so it looks awesome for like two hours like that's a long movie and everything are just like wow I can't believe they spent like this much time and money on it you know like Moma did a Tim Burton exhibit like at some point and like Mars Attacks and all of those movies are like why because there is such a richness to the to the visual stuff but like it it's long you know what I mean okay um I some people would say that it ends at Edwood that the glory run ends at Edwood the glory run maybe I think Mars Attacks is kind of just honestly I would look at Mars Attacks and not Sleepy Hollow sort of as the harbinger of things to come Mars Attacks I think that's right Mars attack doesn't quite not work yeah but it's kind of like oh when this guy goes a little bit bigger yeah things start to crack a little bit you're definitely right about that Sleepy Hollow is much more contained sure I think it's a little more dull at times than Mars attack which is this kind of like you know perpetual motion machine because you're moving from character to character and then two 2001's Planet of the Apes and this is a guy who's made some bad movies this might be his worst movie I mean this isn't we talked about it when we did the Monumental cultural failure genuinely genuinely bad movie um and that triggers two reactions it triggers a return to something more intimate in Big Fish which is like a good movie Big Fish solid yeah it's fine it's good yeah and then Charlie in the Chocolate Factory which sets us off on this course of a sort of you know big reunion with Johnny Depp and then he becomes kind of a commercial Juggernaut for the next 10 years but also becomes a filmmaker who seems to have like completely lost his identity or his way we're all at an age where those movies I think mean less I think if you're in your 20s you might have a different relationship to that Charlie and the Chocolate Factory or the Alice and Wonderland adaptation anybody in this room carbody in this room raise your hands no Alia Jack no Bob do you have any relationship to the latter half of the Timberton catalog not really no great well you three are men women of tast but you know you know something else around that movie that had changed too I remember so Johnny had changed right so yeah so so when Tim Burton was casting Johnny earlier on he was casting this beautiful talented version of himself uh that could like be his Avatar in all of these different movies well post Pirates Johnny's the biggest guy like literally he's the biggest guy until Robert Donnie Jr comes along with Iron Man and then he becomes the biggest commercial guy and then Tim and Johnny go for a ride together they're like okay well it's up let's go make some big movies where I don't have fight with the studio to put you in the movie so they do this one and then they come back and it's s and it's yeah they just they they and they they spin and go make some bread so I wasn't mad at it but I had like absolutely zero desire to see Charlie in the Chocolate Factory and when I did go to see it it was too weird for me I don't like these version of these guys it's not the same battery of pitcher and catcher that I remember so I was just kind of out on it yeah I agree considering that the latter half like is that the line that you would draw it from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory on I think that's where it started yeah I think that's I mean I have a pretty big relationship to Corpse Bride but that would be the last one that like yeah just cuz that was on a lot and it was animated and like I was nine when that came out and so it was like a little too scary for me and something that I wanted to go back to once I was not so scared of it but that was probably like the first time I realized like oh this is Tim Burton this is his style and then I went backwards from there which is like not ideal timing but still that's a that's a good movie it's a good animated movie it feels more in the tradition of Nightmare Before Christmas it's the first feature that Leica co-produced and then they went on to produce you know Coraline and Box Trolls ParaNorman like some very celebrated animated movies it's like a fusion between the Leica aesthetic and the Timberon aesthetic it's pretty good but it's kind of sandwiched between these other movies that are just not so good Charlie choc Factory Alison Wonderland Sweeney Todd is an okay adaptation of that of that music I mean and it's also it's doing the sanheim adaptation and film form is I it's hard it is hard so I think it landed for people though I mean I I it's not it's not one for me it's not one for me but I think it landed for people I mean I feel like Johnny Depp got like an Academy Award nomination out of it yeah so I feel like I feel like that movie landed best direction that year nominated for costumes Colleen Atwood who did the costumes for beetle juu beetle juu has done many costumes for Tim Burton um you know I I'm gonna assume that from the last 20 years none of those movies end up making our top fives right I mean from 94 on no from 2005 on oh that's right because it's 2024 [ __ ] uh that's damn life comes at you fast time just moved 10 years into the future for you during this pod that is remarkable that's really tough uh yeah I think so how many years are you old uh spiritually or in a physical sense how many years are you old I'm 44 yeah okay yeah yeah it's tough I mean yeah it happens quick it's it's it's brutal yeah 42 I was uh three years old when pb's big adventure came out I probably saw it at five imagine that yeah look at me now yeah super normal guy very chill guy everybody likes hanging out with do you know what you know which movie that like I was like super excited for it's just such a beautiful story to me and I when I when it when it was bad I was like damn it was Dumbo bro like when Dumbo was like very disappointing movie when Dumbo didn't work I was like oh my God man I saw the trailer for Dumbo I'm like yo the Dumbo story and the way that it is there's no way you put this the story with Tim and do you remember the cast of this movie yeah Colin farell Michael Keaton Danny DeVito Eva Green Alan Arin and it stinks and it just it didn't work so are you a big circus guy no okay well I I mean just like Carneys I don't know because you Carneys yeah it seems like you have like a relationship to clowns and also to Dumbo and so I I'm just I'm curious about this side of your life you should do terrifier four but try to get Dumbo in the mix terrified like the crazy derang version of Dumbo tusks you know you got these tusks um so it there was one time where I thought I feel like I've told you guys this before I thought that there was a clown situation that I was that only I was seeing I thought I was in a horror movie have I told you about this before no no so just real quick I'm won't go long with here so I'm at home one time all the time in the world I'm at home one time Baton Rouge 2002 maybe and I'm watching a show called BET uncut do you are you familiar with this show certainly am okay right I know you know see try to act like you're different little after midnight material yeah yeah yeah yeah and there's a commercial that comes on and it's a little boy Al has heard this story before it's a little boy and he's walking down the street and then you see him and then all of a sudden it cuts to another thing and that little boy is on the back of a milk carton oh and then you see a hand grab the milk carton and it's a crazy evil clown and the clown drinks the carton and there's blood everywhere and the clown looks at the camera and he goes got blood like the got milk ads right right commercial went off nothing at the beginning nothing at the end it was didn't seem like an advertisement I legitimately thought that I was the only person that saw it when I I'm not even bullshitting you I'm like because I was waiting for it to advertise something but it didn't so I'm like [ __ ] looking around and I'm telling my friends I'm like yo I'm like my man bro did y'all see this commercial with this clown and they're like no I don't know what you're talking about right and it's 2002 so you can't like get on Twitter you can't yeah I'm like I'm like it's the era of the movie The Ring and all of that stuff and like I'm like bro I'm telling you bro it's a commercial a clown he drinks blood he abducts a little boy the little boy and they're like whatever whatever and for about a week I'm freaking out okay then I'm at my friend Gino's house okay and the commercial comes on again and I'm like Gino Gino come here this is the commercial this is the commercial this is the commercial when the commercial comes on what had happened was Bett uncut would come on at weird times throughout the night and sometimes the commercial would like cut in or out like weirdly right they weren't sing it they weren't sinking they wer getting their ad dollars and it came on and it said live at LSU K Evil it was a [ __ ] haunted house commercial okay that the clown was doing the thing the people from High Learning found the commercial oh and then sent it to me which further traumatized me okay but but like since then I what six or eight weeks ago that you first saw this how old were you no I was was 22 but since then I've had a weird relationship with [ __ ] up clowns uhhuh I both am terrified of them but I also can't stop like I can't get enough can't stop what I can't stop indulging into the [ __ ] up clowns okay like a friend of mine told me how you're seeking it out a little bit okay A friend of mine told me how [ __ ] up the It movie was had to go see it saw it twice saw the second one second one not a good movie freakishly terrifying though like very scary so like so what are we talking it killer clowns from outer space Oh my God that that one one of the scariest movies one of the scariest movies that's ever if you see that movie under the age of 10 it will ruin your life like freaks you out like the all the stuff that the clowns do what do they do they throw the pie at you yeah and then at the end of the movie the pies come on the people so cotton candy yeah cotton candy so when when terrifier first dropped it's like I got see it Kika walked in the room she's like what the [ __ ] are you watching like what is going on I'm like I got to see this I got to subject myself are you not aware of the terrifier phenomenon have we not discussed it on the show no but I just Googled it when he was talking about it and so it's like a guy wearing a clown costume he's a serial killer that is the description of what happens in the movie is the movies themselves have become one of the most successful independent film franchises really the last 10 or 15 years and so the third one is coming out this year and it is eagerly anticipated among a certain stripe of horror fans that van is describing I would say Tim Burton feels very far away from what terrifier is up to oh yeah very far maybe he was never even close to it in the first place no terrif is brutal no no no no like clowns in the circus are where you find yourself in Tim Burton movies that's right you know right he is the clown we are all the clown the terrifier seems more like real life which is like and that's where crazy people put on a costume and then go kill people that's right yeah like somebody like somebody opens the door and the clown is outside of them and you're like the Clown's going to kill you stop don't don't be mean to the clown don't don't do what you're doing and then they die I had an idea for a podcast that would never be able to be made because of the clearance issues but it was it was going to be called watching 120 minutes and we would just sit and watch an episode of 120 Minutes the alternative music program onv there is a spin-off show called watching BET uncut where we could just do the same just get an episode from 1997 of bet un cut and just watch it and talk about what was happening and why we're seeing what we're seeing Amanda have you ever saw it I don't think so okay I I literally would pay like based upon Amanda's reaction to the Anthony Edward send the video phenomenal excuse me I would literally I I would literally want me to Google right now and I don't want you to do it I mean it's like hours and hours and hours of content it's a certain kind of music video certain a certain type of music video I mean I I can imagine I was around you know like I I was more tuned into TRL at that moment but like listen the Tip Drill music video have you ever heard of it before no I don't think so wow okay okay no no no no okay not not here don't look up the Tip Drill music video Amanda okay all right just you know I don't want you to your opinion of Nelly to change okay oh okay right so don't look up the tip another time when you're away just come back and report to me on what you think about the Tip Drill music video I'll let you know how it work would you guys like to talk about Tim burp I apologize to the listeners of the big picture apologies um no apology necessary this is just part of the cultural spunking that we do here on the Pod B do you want to go first number five uh Edwood okay I've Edwood number five it is a great movie but a movie that I'm the least intimately connected to why would you say that uh because it his departure in Ed Ed will was the first movie that didn't it felt like it didn't feel like the Tim Burton that I was used to I like I like the movie M don't get me wrong I like I like Edwood but I'm like oh okay this movie is uh a little bit straight up it's biopic uh it really more than anything got me interested in Edwood and that type of film making to be honest with you um BJ juice is actually Four okay okay and well at this particular time we're just talking about gradations of great yeah um and we're four to one you're like we're in the we're in The Hot Zone here Edward Scissor Hands is a movie I have a deep deep deep connection to just I've seen it so many times I felt so close to the character so close to Wi Nona rider in the movie like I was very very like as a kid looking at Edward Scissor Hands and one of the first movies that made me like emote like you care about this thing in like in a in a real way uh P's big adventur is too it's probably the Tim Burton movie that I've seen the most okay um and it's probably the one that's most most ubiquitous for me in terms of like being its place in culture in my house and stuff uh everyone loved it mother father sister parents like Peewee every my my my daddy used to look at Peewee and just laugh and laugh and laugh Peewee is in that category it's funny that you say that you always get me thinking about my childhood whenever we podcast Peewee is one of those things very much like The Simpsons that I just distinctly remember my dad being like this is stupid and feel like shut up man like I like this you know like let me just let me like this is it okay that I like this so it's funny that your parents enjoyed it my dad used to be like hey what Peewee got going on like what that oh I like I like that Peewee um like that's how he was I like Peewee man Peewee dancing all kinds of stuff I I hope pee get his bite back um and the number one obviously you guys could have figured this out number one is Batman okay like yeah the what Batman meant like when the movie came out the hysteria the lines around the block seeing it the way that it was what the superhero movie could become remember Donna Superman is probably like with 11 years 10 years what is what the super hero movie could be it can be done artfully it could be done seriously it could be done in a Sinister way it could have the cool cultural moment with the soundtrack you can have the impossibly beautiful Kim braer it was just a complete moment in my childhood and still to me represents a pinnacle of the interpretation of a character obviously they were building on a lot Frank Miller had taken Batman in a little bit of a darker place you had all kinds of stuff to build on but it rep to me it was the peak of Tim Burton's powers and his ability to put his artistic spin on something that already existed I was reading about Batman which is also on my list yeah of course um I thought was interesting which is that Tim Burton said when he was a kid he was not reader of comic books because he felt like he had he had dyslexia or something dyslexic about his ability to read the panels in the right order and so it took into but he said he was always fascinated by the imagery of Batman and the Joker and that the killing joke was the first time he read a comic book where he didn't have the inability to understand the storytelling style and that made me wonder if that's a comic book movie that is maybe more appealing to you because it doesn't have some of the trappings of like you got to know about this and you got to know about this to kind of get on board with some of the story retelling yeah of course and I I mean I think some of it is also it is I well actually Batman Returns is higher in my ranking than Batman but only because of Michael Keaton and Michelle feifer you know which I when I rewatched it I just fast forwarded for them just having some what about Christopher Walkin I enjoy him in that listen everybody's everybody's very good in it but Batman as van said is like here we go it's like setting the stage coming to the world and it is very very kind of Primal and this person is working out some things and you haven't seen his parents die like 45 times you know and there's this guy who's Jack Nicholson and you're like oh okay so if this is what Comics are I get it and I don't have to you know read 40 other things to understand it um look at I mean say with your chest to Van you know that's really that's really more that's his true that's his situation Joker overall woman like it everything is is is given to you and you get why this guy goes crazy why he becomes a clown Prince of Crime why he's so dangerous um and you understand Bruce's demented trauma as well even down to like Robert wool playing the every man that is like nothing compared to Bruce Wayne but still it's just it's a it's really a perfect movie what's your top five so it's not very original it's the first five movies and I'm just going to tell you in order no not not in order but I mean that's you know I and I like did do a lot of rewatching I was like oh am I going to throw like big eyes in here and I was like you know what I'm not because once again it's Amy Anis interesting thing about Timber's career he works with a lot of uh Amanda's black licorice actors over time such as Amy Adams Winona goes back and forth for me she's sort of in theu listen Reality Bites and Little Women are two of the most important things happen even though she's like arguably the worst part of Little Women uh oh it's but you know what it is it's like a Natalie Portman thing who also shows up this is like like dragged into a ditch situation here with you like we're not we're not black black Licor you mean you don't like Winona R yeah I'm just like I don't no I like her a lot okay I don't know if I think she's good at acting which is also true of Natalie porman um yeah I don't know whether I think she's good at acting okay um this is a take I like this [ __ ] and Johnny Johnny Depp is another one where you think Johnny Deb could act well he could at the beginning but now I'm just like you're just walking through I just don't respond to it did you see Jean duberry no I didn't I haven't seen it either uh you know it's just like a lot of people where I'm like are we sure and then there like eight of his movies um uh I think that Michael Keaton's pretty good oh yeah that's good so think and Johnny Depp all something in common which is that they are like beautiful people who are bound by their eccentricities and that their eccentricities is what makes them special yeah but I do also think like Michael Keaton can still do the I'm speaking like a normal human being when he needs to and wona writer I'm just like I she's she's she's of different experience than all of us I think in the last 20 years it frequently feels as though she has just been struck by lightning yes but but that's what I'm saying I don't think that's true for the first 25 years of her career she's distinctly a different actress now yes but I think that she just fell into roles before yeah like you've seen Heathers and stuff like that she's amazing in Heathers yeah Heathers Little Women Reality Bites really important but like Little Women she's being innocence Beetle Juice Age of Innocence is a really interesting one right using what they're using course he's is using like her weirdness in the right way the baby's coming maybe we better get you to a hospital quickly that's one thing we didn't talk about Beetle ju Beetle Juice which was like baby Beetle Juice was really good and like really really spotted I like was meant ask you about that no I was like this is accurate to my experience um so that was good anyway no so it's first W took out Winona God damn it I didn't take her out I just I'm like are you know take out yeah sure peona for me is so you know what I looked it with no like remember the the stupid Adam Sandler movie what was it called Mr Deeds Mr Deeds see I had that right at my finger wiona Rider and Mr D is I was like come on man this is top V definitely has a pres this is great like when she's like becoming a novelist at the end of Little Women you're like okay you don't like girl like I mean obviously Angelina Jolie obviously Angelina Jolie acted circles around her and Girl Interrupted but I mean this is what I'm saying it's just like there are there are places that was that movie was made after the lightning struck you know there's a demarcation L there are places where it's 94 it's the same era as Reality Bites and interrupted is a little bit Reality Bites is she's perfect but she's also playing someone who you know is it's actually a genius I think about the gas card thing all the time um big move it's but it really listen mandic yeah I got Dad's gas card use what you have you know um anyway my do do my top so five Peewee just okay yeah I don't know I mean this is as you said all choosing between Classics four Batman three Batman Returns listen Michael Keaton and Michelle Fiverr was you know you know when you're young and you don't know everything but you start picking up on the I was like something's going on here something's happening you know yeah um two Edward Scissor Hands which is I agree like like a beautiful and it's like the most clearly related to Tim Burton's like autobiography basically real life but also his autobiography turns into this like Fantastical um you know so much that movies in daylight as well and so like the're brightly colored and he's carving everything it's probably it's my favorite but number one is Beetle Juice cuz beetle juu is like pretty core I didn't put Edward scissor on my list they did just rewatch it it's great I mean it's kind of like I I I feel similar the first seven movies they all are kind of like moving up and down for me over time but um I already spoke about Mars's attacks that's number five I think it's a cool big swing you know it might might be signaling the beginning of the end as you were indicating and I think that that's fair you think Mars attack is a better movie than Edward scissor it's a movie I like more I got you you know and that's just that's personal personal taste you know like and and when you say like Edward S hands meant a lot to me and I know that's true for a lot of people where it like basically made them feel seen because the idea of the outcast is rendered so well in that movie also I think Johnny DPP and one R are are perfectly cast they're they're both wonderful you know who really popped when I watched it was Kathy Baker she's really really good in that movie um so that's a fun movie but Mar tax is just personal to me I like it Batman at four okay Edwood at three yeah you know you yeah sure and history of Hollywood and I I don't appreciate the Martin landow Oscar win over Samuel Jackson um but that's something that happened and we're all coping with that uh Sam's coping with it for sure and I don't I'm not coping may not be the word [ __ ] salty yeah I mean yeah yeah understandable but he's now the age that landow was yeah so you know maybe there's an Oscar around the corner for him right uh number two is Beetlejuice which is a perfect five-star classic and number one is pb's Big Adventure which is a perfect festar classic yeah and very important to you there's never been a movie like P's big adventure and also Whenever there are movies like pb's big adventure which is essentially the comportment of a standup comic Persona into a movie it is almost never good it is so hard to transform what Paul Rubin was doing on stage into a movie format and the fact that that movie works as well as it does is incredible and you know it's incredible because when they tried to make make a sequel much like beetle beetle juu 30 years later didn't work at all what was the sequel it was a Netflix movie like four or five years ago oh I didn't see it yeah um it if peewee's big adventure came out like 2017 Paul rumes would be nominated for an Academy Award I because because the academy has changed because I think that the movie itself first of all he because he became Peewee he never really got the credit that he deserved for the character of PeeWee because in the 80s I didn't really know his name till maybe like 92 90 93 probably till after he got busted into the theater doing whatever he Wasing watching BET uncut watching BET uncut exactly and remember the whole MTV Music Awards things we had a classic childhood it's full of Classics I I agree okay it wasn't Tick Tock and stuff it was classic moment after Classic moment I believe this is called Old B van it is that that might be the same MTV Music Awards with two Live Crew it's classic moment after classic classic [ __ ] okay um but it's just I'm just saying I'm just saying it's just like a fantastic performance he's funny he's vulnerable he's like sometimes he's scary remember the when he was like briefing people on his bike it's just like it's he's hysterical and the performance is underrated I don't think people could appreciate it back then do you think men should go to prison for cranking it in a movie [Laughter] theater Leia says yes Z well it was an adult theater right oh yeah I mean honestly like listen I don't know the rules in Florida what are the rules of Entry but I you know well your freak flag fly come on he was wrongfully accused I personally think that I put that one on the cops because that happened to W his face too from American Pie like it I put that Shannon Elizabeth no no no who's the dad the guy who no not Eugene Levy that wasn't him that's not from American P the other guy got caught we did it at TMZ oh yeah [ __ ] dude y'all know who I'm talking about yes of course from best Fred Willer yeah you remember when may he rest in peace but then the dramatic reading of the arrest incidence is like the hardest that I've ever laughed yeah but I I feel like that's entrapment not entrapment but I feel like that's that's like low hanging fruit why would youing exactly why would you go there to try to get that like it you you GNA find that like you just trying to hate on Peewee man they probably felt like they had one too they should have locked up Jack Nicholson in The Departed when he went in there remember that he should have been locked up he was doing the same thing that's how they could have busted him he didn't have to be an informant I mean I just it does seem like there's like a Rules of Engagement situation you know I agree just me yeah uh Peewee is a great film Paul ruin was a good actor too but he I think he was you know codified clearly as Peewee for the rest of his career Tim Burton I got love for him you know all these years later no matter how many Dark Shadows or Charlie and chalk factories he makes I'm still going to have a a place in my heart he he helped me understand movies more clearly as a young kid so it's pretty important $60 million told you this before Tim Burton with 50 to 60 million perfect he just needs to be limited he Batman was probably beat in that he just needs to be limited like everybody needs creative restraints it's true but particularly someone that has such a distinct visual style because sometimes you lose the coherence of the story like when you have that like Allison in Wonderland is it's obviously you have to have a very it's a very visual movie right but that movie is really about a wacky zany story where you really have to kind of get into it and you can lose a little bit of what the movie is if you are paying too much attention to making it look bizarre and stuff right and sometimes he falls under the the the weight of the aesthetic of the world that he's trying to yeah yeah he's just like in the workshop for a little too long yeah yeah but like when he when it's simpler like even Beetle Juice Beetle juu good movie good I would you say six I would say if we can do Point FES I would say 6.5 or seven just because I had so much fun okay but six is probably uh very solid but that movie could have been an eight it could have been a nine it could have been a little bit faster Pace also could have been a three so that's I I come out of it with relief fair fair enough so only had two Academy Award nominations Burton both for animated films what do you think that says about the academy snobs yeah yeah I mean that was your to your point about if PB were 2017 it we get an Oscar nomination but it wouldn't because they don't acknowledge comedy they don't acknowledge weirdness yeah goth boys genre I feel like I guess they're getting better but I feel like they definitely didn't end then maybe I'm wrong but I feel like I just feel like performances like that are more appreciated now than they used to be I mean that's true true because it used to just be what like what's the biopic of the of the week right and they they kind of still do that but but it but it seems like now you get the academy uh like the momentum behind a performance and everybody being captivated with it goes a little bit further uh than it used to are you still in on the Oscars what you expect me to say just be honest yeah I'm in on the Oscars okay do you have a pick for best picture I don't I saw you guys making uh I saw you guys wild wild predictions based on I have a little work to do because I got buried under the the content of this year of this summer with like everything we were doing on the ring reverse you guys can go check us out so I have a little work to do catching up but like what like early on it's Dune Dune two is going to clean up you guys tell me what you think give me it's definitely going to be nominated in a lot of categories but you don't think it's G to win anything I mean we don't know you know because historically they don't want to do the genre stuff or if they do they do it for the third in a Trilogy C Return of the King right is that it's that's a movie that I've seen I don't know about you I saw it um they got Hobbits in it yeah are the hobbits in it you guys shouldn't be allowed to talk about this stuff put that out there can't believe I facilitated an environment in which you get to do that um so since there is like June 3 is kind of in The Ether maybe they maybe they won't put it up this time you know I'm looking forward to your take on an Nora that's the one I saw you guys talking about I haven't seen it yeah I haven't seen it's wonderful you guys love it it's kind of the it's kind of the BET uncut for Russian oligarchs oh yeah see you should write [ __ ] like that you should write little takes like that like that would get us out like what is this movie this movie is the BET Dash like a dash Sean fennessy the ringer this movie is the BET uncut for Russian oligarchs I'll definitely go see it what what would that do for us if I did that more regularly for us when I said us I meant the us because maybe we want to see this movie the employees of the ringer no as in Black Americans oh I see I maybe we want to go see that movie but like we're no no one's like it's not really being marketed towards us but like this is the BET UNC for Russian oligarchs so think the villain in John Wick plus BET uncut think Eastern Promises now unfortunately I think that's totally accurate that's not it okay um you got a Sprinkle in a dash of Pretty Woman what the [ __ ] is the movie about yeah yeah think about it it's about a stripper oh who then uh yeah who meets a the son of a Russian oligarch and then and and and then they things unfold from there oh yeah I'm in yeah oh okay okay well hopefully you see that film uh man thank you very much where where can we hear you and see you the ringer verse uh Higher Learning lots of fun churning out the content and having a great time here at the ring Amanda where can we find you here yep every day until I'm not anymore MH and also in prison for your Winona Rider take right the the nearest Maximum Security Prison she just like she turns L down she like Christian Bale is there at the fence just being like marry me I love you and she's like no no I need to become the Great American novelist like sure okay great hey thanks to Alia zerys who is abandoning the big picture for all of her work thanks to Jack Sanders thanks to our producer Bobby Wagner for his work on this episode next week Chris Ryan and I return oh yeah to build a new sub genre on this show that sub genre is called garbage Revenge AKA trash Justice and we'll be talking about the new Jeremy son film Rebel Ridge we'll see you then [Music]