Penny Lucas-White | Head Volleyball Coach | Alabama State - One Question Leadership Podcast

welcome back to the one question leadership podcast I'm Glenn Caruso head football coach at the University of St Thomas and so happy you tuned in you know quite often we get so caught up in The Daily Grind of work or coaching or recruiting that we don't often take time to reflect I would encourage everybody to take just a few minutes each day to try and see the bigger picture to stop and realize that in the end we're going to be judged on what we choose to believe who we choose to love and what we decide to leave behind in the hearts and minds of not just our players not just our co-workers but also our children and remember if we're doing it right we're coaching for [Music] Life greetings this is Ty Brown and welcome to the one question leadership podcast where we highlight executive leadership in college athletics today's episode was recorded at the 2024 American volleyball coaches association's National Convention Our Guest is Penny Lucas white penny is the head volleyball coach at Alabama State take a listen we are here at the 2023 avca National Convention and I'm joined by Penny Lucas white penny is the head volleyball coach at Alabama State greetings Penny thanks for joining us oh thanks for having me now Penny what I understand about you is that your leadership coach I am leadership is sounds like an offline conversation of the utmost importance to you absolutely if if you were to summarize your leadership philosophy in a sentence or two what it would it be and I'm gonna give you mine okay and then you give me yours people who have heard me interview or talk know what mine is and it's just that the role of a leader is to create and maintain an environment that people want to be a part of absolutely okay I believe that I'm a relational Leever leader I believe that I'm also a servant leader I'm not just here to have you follow me I'm here to grow you and to show you how great you are so I think it's important that it's it's not me buing I want you to do this this and this is collaborative I talk to Generation Z and I talk about what it is they want to experience the next four months we're together and we talk about that so what does that look like on a day-to-day basis and through that is how we evolve into our Collective values and how we're going to get there we create a mission we create a vision and then we create words that's going to describe their behavior every day okay yeah which which I think is excellent you told me you spent you in 2016 yes I guess spent some time with John Maxwell I sure did I invested in myself my professional development I felt like I was communicating but I wasn't connecting with my student athletes so I took time spent my own money and I go down to Orlando Florida I spent a week with so many uh different coaches leaders in in every industry there is but I had so many aha moments that it changed the way I looked at my leadership and how I lead and I've had a lot of fun since what's interesting is you you've been in the industry you've been in the coaching profession for 35 years something like that right head coach for for a little over 30 yeah right and so that's there's significant leadership experience in there but I guess you said seven years years ago you start feeling like you know I got all this experience I have all the credibility in the world i' I've played games one lost but I feel like there's something missing there was something missing I wasn't connecting so there's there's a there's an introspective aspect to it that a lot of I think a lot of people in our country specifically but maybe in the world but our country don't have right thinking introspectively that there's something missing here and so the onus was on you you took it on yourself go down there ab and he said it's been fun ever since it's been a lot of fun and I think it's changed the way I treat um an issue a problem um what you see is a lot of coaches my age are stepping down they're stepping out because they don't listen they don't this and it's becoming frustrated it doesn't have to be frustrating um and I think the minute we stop being student of the game is the minute you need to step aside the minute I found a different way of seeing how I coach or how I want want to be seen the Legacy that I want to lead leave for all the young people that I impact then it changed the way I walk every day the way I talk every day the way I do things and it's been a lot of fun yeah that's super interesting culture culture that's my Niche culture there's your Niche and and this year did you feel I want to trying to interpret what you said offline you felt like there was a cohesiveness to the team this year team was extremely special okay tell me about that and I think it's in the method in the system in which I approached we read the book over the summer called Pound The Stone it's about a young man that played basketball we go through his entire four years of high school but it was all the all the small lessons that was learned throughout those four years very very relatable to my student athletes today we met on a zoom call periodically and the girls get to talk about about what that lesson meant to them or what that experience meant whether we have limited uh belief systems whether we uh have negative selft talk whether how we look at ourselves in the mirror all those things are relatable so we did that late great groundwork then we talked about how do you want to handle that when you're in the middle of a match or you in the middle of practice and you know that you're having some negative selft talk and so then we talked about that and so then I talk about what champ I do see Champions talk to themselves they don't listen they already know how to talk to themselves but people that struggle with with uh confidence they listen to that negative vampire so there's a difference so we we did all of that this group bought in then we created words that when we say those words it changes the environment or we need to we we regroup we reset we breathe and then we continue to comp with that being said alone that creates accountability when you talk about ladies or women you know guys hold each other accountable all the time and they'll knock each other around women have to one feel valued before you can hold them accountable or before you can put their backs up against the wall we got to a place where this group was able to hold themselves and each other accountable so when they the student athlete can self- police themselves my job's easy so we did all that and that's why I say culture is so important it allowed them to create the environment that then breeds the experience that they want to have and we went 16 and zero in conference confence yeah which is excellent I it it does make me wonder is that theep 2016 to now yeah because I'm sure you've had other other sets of teams and Seasons where you felt good about them but is that the The evolutionary process of your leadership cuz what's what's set it apart this year that wasn't in place the last well since 2016 17 well 2016 2017 we went undefeated both both years we were undefeated in regular season all the way through conference play they were great they were good kids not necessarily all bought in not necessarily committed have done some things on the side being kids they were being kids uh but they set a tone of they set the tradition of winning in a way that we went four years but to go two years without losing a match in conference I don't care what conference you're in it's still something hard to do it takes a culture and a commitment and so anyway so then 2018 2019 struggled a little bit lost a lot of leaders and all that good stuff had a lot of injuries in 2019 but found a way still to win the conference tournament went in fifth seed won the conference tournament yeah 2020 we set out so we come from this big tradition of winning to set out in 2020 so now we really got to start over you got to build everything and that's where the evolution started Mak and that's and this the same group that I just finished with that they were all seniors I had nine of them so it was great a great group coming through Co finding a way to win and really creating a family environment uh bo Hansen asked us today if give me three words that would describe your team your current team and mine was family accountability and unconditional love right because we understood we all human nobody walks in practice saying I think I want to screw up today no body does that I I find it interesting you think about those three words you just come up with it's almost like you may start off with three different words of what you think you're going to be but when you look back at it you're like okay here's who we really were or because you're becoming totally agree so then that translate those were our words those our inward words that you don't get them experience every day but we do but on the court all you saw was relentless you saw fortitude and you saw discipline yeah that's what you saw on the court but I know what it took to get them there which is excellent take the conversation from Alabama state to volleyball in general the the the state of the game the health of the game when you talk about being a head coach for over 30 years and you and you talk about seeing the evolution of humans right in terms of how humans interact with each other in terms of what gets young people's attention now and then coach to evolve that recruiting the whole thing college volleyball tell me about your thoughts on the health update oh my gosh well you look we at what 92,3 the health of volleyball has grown we're the fastest growing sport in America right now the health of it has been phenomenal to have three Pro leagues that's showing up so that our health and where we are and how we've grown is evident it has been like you said evolutionary it's been it's been awesome yeah I think that's amazing yeah because everybody have asked that question for the same so for the for the profession to feel like that that means it's been amazing and and it's not just that it happened in Nebraska we've had so many different places break records I like the fact that you had people break records in Nebraska but copen State and HBCU broke records there as well my gym stays packed I just standing room only right but it's not nearly as large as some of the other venues but it has totally grown yeah yeah I wonder about nil transfer portal all these things that you hear talking about tossed back and around but there they I saw recently quotes from uh one of the presidents of an HBCU and they like hey look this conversation is different for us right so talk to me about about that your you know I don't I don't know how to feel sometimes now the transfer portal I think what has happened here I think our kids student athletes deserve something for sure because so many people have profited they profited from their athleticism and from their contributions so many schools have made so much money Absolutely I'll say to myself obviously I was born the wrong time yeah right playing now right but yeah but do they deserve something absolutely I'm not sure where we going because I think what it's uncharted waters I don't think we've uh figured out kids that that that may not have ever had this kind of money how they we we definitely need a person or a company or someone on campus to teach financial literacy that has to be put in place I think also what's happening is you're GNA have a lot of student athletes making more money than the coaches and and so so I don't know I don't know what's yeah I don't know where we're going but I know we're going to have to manage this but I will say this we are a reflection of America you're going to have the affluent the middle class and those that have knots okay that's America okay so we can't we can't deny that that's who we are and that's where we are um and we're going to split off but maybe those schools that have those type resources may they already set themselves apart what happens though to Athletics overall is you're going to have kids jump and ship every year year and I'm going to say it I don't know if I should be held to an APR at this point because they get the jump ship and they just look like they're going to let them transfer more than once so I'm not sure where we going when we supposed to be graduating student athletes I'm not sure where we're going yet but I know it's uncharted waters I think um I'm glad my children my biological children all graduated from college and are doing well but I think we need some people in some places to really sit in a room and brainstorm this thing out to create a system that can still grow kids teach them what commitment look like because we're losing loyalty and commitment we're starting to look like all the professional sports you you can't say that Dr J played for the 76ers but we going to say all these NBA players are playing for all these different teams you know what I'm saying we don't have that I understand we're changed we're evolved but I'm not sure if that belongs in college athletics I'm not sure yeah I'm not one to say but I will say we are are are are approaching uncharted waters and we don't know what's up ahead and I don't think it's been well thought of right there are some there are some concerns with somebody who transfers multiple times it's like are you tracking for a degree are you really on point to to graduate there there's also the thought and and I'm trying to I'm kind of where I am on this when been thinking about because the coaches I'm a football guy so okay it's like you know you you recruit and and I am a tool for you to try to be successful and then you go get another job because they pay you more and then we talk about am I supposed to stay in this program with a coach I don't know or even if I go somewhere and the coach just he couldn't figure out how to win okay he or she couldn't figure out to win am I do I'm commitment because I don't want to stay in a program where a coach may not be a good leader okay it may not understand about putting the expectations and the values in place and those types of things I'm G do what's best for me and I'm not sure this is a good I that's okay and I think what has to happen is I think we need to go back a little bit to old school we need to make some home visits so we as coaches go pick the correct kids exactly yeah because I kind of want to know their background because when they show up they not just showing up as the kid with all the the the the hang time the touch jump and all of that the athleticism that we saw they're coming in our environment with all their luggage all of their past experiences and I don't know what trauma they faced either so I'm dealing with a lot as well as as they need to do with the coaches they really need to ask when when we're on the phones they need to interview me just like I'm trying to interview them yeah and I think if we do a little bit more of that then we'll make some better decisions um do I think some kids may need to graduate and they thought the program was something because maybe um the coaches sold them a a a pipe dream and it wasn't like that when they got there sure yeah absolutely as a kid tell me that they're healthy and when they got there they knew they had an injury and that they didn't disclose yeah I need to make some changes too I think it's a two-way street so like I said there's some there's so many unknowns but um I I don't even know what to say because so so there's some things I I agree with what you're saying because what is the purpose for you being in college right now it should be exactly graduate get a degree are you here to play volleyball are you here to play football what is your purpose and so there is some soul searching that everybody needs to do in terms of understanding why you're on this college campus well my next question is you know they were making the kids come in that had to do one year before they went to the NBA or the NFL so so so what where where does that go now right because if they're not in it for the degree and then you have some why would I go pro right now when I can make a million as a college student athlete why would I leave bro I stay in this this conversation out I think I don't the NBA I haven't studied enough to understand why you had to be 19 and one year out NFL is part of is a physicality thing you want the guys to be that makes sense you know what I mean because you don't want to be 18y old playing with these guy okay that makes sense um HBCU yes you've been you're talking about going in 15 Seasons yeah uh Alabama State and you mentioned copen State yeah in attendance what are your thoughts on how HBCU half carved are carving and will carve out this niche in the industry of College athletics with all the changes that are happening I'll be the first person to say and I'm going say it I think uh prime time I think Deion Sanders open doors that we're seeing and and it has open doors where now we are on ESPN all the different networks where our kids are being seen yeah and they're good and if you keep watching we're beating teams that are outside of HBCU um but they're good and we have qualified coaches educated coaches good coaches doing their jobs I'm at an HBCU because I want to be I love working with a lot of kids that look like me and then to expose them to the other power fives and the schools and to take them on all these trips and allow them the opportunity to play at a high level they're exposed to everything a power five is exposed to and I appreciate my senior leadership who allows me to do that um HBCU the the tough part yeah what happens now with nil what happens now with with the cost of attendance what happens now uh just with us all being divided in different budget divisions um we GNA have to find a way make one yeah we're going to have to find a way of make one we always have so so we will yeah I think that's exp I ask last two questions and then we'll wrap first one is if you could if you could make up change or get rid of any rule in the game whether it be on the field or off the volleyball game what would you do that is a great question you know we had a big discussion about this um today and just thinking about it this is what I would really change and and I think after the dialogue and everything I would let a lot of doubles go and let the people play let the kids play don't because the level of the tightness of how one ref may call a game one night is totally different how loose another ref's going to call a game the other night unless it's egregious Let It Go and unless we're not our kids aren't setting the ball over the net let them play Let It Go let's see what happens see what happens that's excellent final question is and you said a lot of this already but if you're talking to a room full of people who want to be a head coach C CEO leader of a project leader of an organization whatever team captain something and want to be leaders and people who are already in positions of head coach CEO team captains project leaders but they want to be better as Leaders what are one or two things you would tell them that need that could you would suggest as the foundational things they need to do to be successful you bring it on let's go you need to go to a couple people that you trust and ask what is it like being on the other side of my leadership can you imagine you know with no um uh retribution what is it like being on the other side of my leadership and how about this if you don't want to ask that to where you work ask your wife right or your husband or your kids you Ryan Le says you'll what type leader are if could mom we never know we gonna get you know we never know what and consistency is important something else that John Maxwell When I believe in the 15 invaluable laws of of growth we want to learn how to grow being intentional so what end in mind do you want and the law of intentionality tells me that the things that I do I want to be very intentional about how I approach certain things but when you find out what it is to be on the other side of your leadership or relationship you'll change some things if they if they're honest with you and then number two be a student of the game 21 irrefutable laws of leadership to teach you that as well so I'm a big John uh Maxwell fan and I'm a big believer in leadership and I walk in it I don't just talk about it I walk it yeah which is excellent well coach I really appreciate you joining us here on D1 ticker and coaches wire okay can I leave you with one more question you sure can let's get it everything Rises or falls on leadership because at the end of the day nobody's going to remember who my assistant coaches were they gonna fire me everything Rises and falls on leadership everything Rises and falls on leadership yes ma'am appreciate you joining us thank you that was Penny Lucas white penny is the head volleyball coach at Alabama State and of course I am Ty brown with one question and keep in mind the role of a leader is to create and maintain an environment that people want to be a part of and as always be better tomorrow than you are [Music] today this episode of the one question leadership podcast is produced by Spades Media Group solving problems using and creative leadership