"You're either Competing, or you're not" - Legendary head coach Pete Carroll with Yogi Roth

the clarity that comes from stepping away this brain I have now that I'm operating with it ain't the same as it was it's different you know and I because I've been able to move the burden of you know the burden of the competing and all of the the the day-to-day and all of the things that were going on to the side um the lessons from early on are stronger than ever my desire to get back into where it comes from is is more important to me than ever and the work that I'm doing going forward in the in the months ahead is going right back to and and revisiting and and and hopefully rekindling tons of stuff that uh that comes from a really special place [Music] [Music] welcome back or welcome to Y option I am your host Yogi Roth and it is here it is game week let's go I'm coming to you from the state of Oregon right now getting a chance to call the Nike kickoff classic and what's fun is that I'm going to be back in this state later this week calling the home opener for your National Championship contending yes Oregon Ducks but today's guest is a guy who knows a thing or two about a thing or two about a national championship and a Super Bowl we have been teasing this episode for a while it is by far by far the one I enjoyed the most thus far in what are we Jim thorby who joins us now uh no what are we almost two months in did this not quite yeah not quite maybe six weeks okay six weeks in this has been my favorite conversation one of my favorite people of all time and it's the guy who changed my life in PE Carroll yes the former head coach at the Seattle Seahawks the UFC Trojans the New England Patriots the New York Jets uh his career if you follow football at all you have an idea of how special he is and if you know me at all you know how special he was in my life so Jim it's game week we had a lot of games of course to talk about there was week zero games this past weekend but this episode you were there for this conversation with Pete uh what did you think about it in real time and then as we prep all of our listeners for this conversation presented by our founding partner 76 six what are you most excited for people to hear well it's it's funny because full disclosure as an Arizona Alum who lived in La during your guys' whole run there you know he was definitely not at the the top of my favorites list you know but but uh you know getting to spend that time with him that day you know his grandson was in the room you know watching uh Brenan son was in in the room watching that interview uh it was really cool I mean no lie uh you know it's it's funny because you know the whole you know there's there's still rivalries and even as even though for the most part USC would put it on AR would put it on Arizona all this time you know you know you still considered a rival because USC was that program especially during the PE Carroll years um but just to getting to see him more as a as a human being you know not as a you know as a quasi mythical feature that you see on the sidelines winning football games uh it was really cool and it was really cool to experience uh your relationship with him and the the mutual love and respect that you both have for each other it was really cool I mean like you know I'm gonna preface this right here this isn't really an interview like this is just all of us getting to hang out listening to the two of you talk about Football Life and philosophy uh so it's it's it's a it's a different take um but it's it's really cool yeah well there was news with Coach Carol Of course last week uh coming back to be a professor at SC uh something that is he referenced with our friend softy up in Seattle on the radio it was something in the works for a long time and uh that was the first time he ever talked to anybody uh we're the first interview that he's done with anyone and knowing him I gota imagine it's probably gonna be one of the last ones that he decides to do because he's having a good time here in retirement I I think from my lens in this conversation and we shared a little bit is you as you'll listen or as you watch here at y option.com it was really a powerful conversation for me Jim because I had known coach Carol since I was 19 right as a young college athlete Brennan his oldest son played at pit he really endeared me as I walked on brenon was the first guy I literally met watching film in Southerland Hall and he came up said what are you doing here it was before like early enroles were a thing I was a summer INR League because I knew I had to get a a head start if I wanted a chance to compete as a walk Leto eventually play in Ernest go Etc and then when Brennan graduated I would go out to USC Every Spring Break and I would work out there I would go out there every summer to Manhattan Beach and I would train there and work their summer camps and that's where I got to meet people like Mark Jackson who's an athletic director of OVA currently Steve sarkeesian that had coach to Texas Lane kein at Old Miss Norm Chow uh you just got to meet like basically guys that were just going to become rock stars in in all of college football heck I met Jason e the head coach at Idaho who's playing Oregon this weekend when I was at SC we would all be working summer camps alongside Jonathan Smith and the Idaho staff from Nick Hol of the time you remember that name but but the point of that I'm trying to make is that Pete took the clay that my parents created and in my 20s really shaped it and shaped it in a really beautiful way so much so that I would often call friends of mine and say God I wish you could be around this guy I wish all of us you included in your 20s had someone like Pete Carol mentoring you and guiding you and shaping you and challenging you he wrote about it in a recent newsletter of you know my my style as an analyst and he asked me what's your style your vision your theme your philosophy just like you would ask all the coaches and he'd make you present it to him and then he would critique you and Coach you that was my 20s and then I got into my 30s and then he started coaching me on my marriage right and on life and then we got to this conversation and I really believe that when you're around mentors and all of you listening and watching think the people that mentored you or your high school coach when you're around them you could be in your 40s and they could be in their 80s I feel there's a version of us that goes right back to our form of form of years High School mentorship whatever you were in that in that relationship at that stage and this was the first time that I felt like Pete and I really were able to go there on a lot of topics for me as an adult right for me as a guy in my 40s as a father and as a husband and it might be the most beautiful conversation I've ever had with anybody outside of like my wife no offense Jim you know we talk all the time but yeah we're good but but I really mean that it was it was so powerful for me to be able to sit across from him in this very intimate setting at the Elite 11 finals this summer and ask him questions that I didn't know the answers to it's always been the one rule I have as an interviewer is ask questions you don't know the answers to and to your point it was such a fun conversation because you know he and I would spend time a couple times a year I'd have a game at udubb I'd go visit the Seahawks and you you'd compete for your 20 minutes together at night where it was just oneon-one we hadn't been able to sit and connect in a moment like this in a while and I think when we left we felt like you just described we were like that was really cool that was that was really cool so um we could talk about it uh a ton but let's let's let you listen to it so on behalf of our founding partner 76 I want to present to you one of my favorite conversations I've ever had with the guy who's impacted my life in ways that no one has had and that is head coach a guy who will always be a head coach in my eyes and now I guess you can call him professor but always a teacher be Carol so I wanted to go down uh memory lane for a minute I remember the first true conversation you and I had you probably don't I was 19 it was a chart house and I was still playing I was out here at Spring break and year year two or three at whatever it was and you said yoke over like a bad salad you said what do you want to do in your life and I said I just want to impact the world that really cool way not not know where the hell that came from way too way too mature for that moment and you said uh okay you said all you have to do is create value don't worry about climbing the ladder of success rung by rung just go create value I was like okay what does that really mean and it was basically like hey you're a walk on like go get one rep get two reps get three and then cut to working for you um that to me was like a a staple that I really took away of stapling practice scripts every day like really like are you competing or you're not and I say that to you of like you probably don't remember that story if you do I'd be curious if your salad was as average as mine but in addition uh where did where did that come from for you because I've quoted that story D if not hundreds of times I don't remember the salad okay I do remember visiting with you though uh well the whole thought is is really a big much bigger thought it's the the thought is that you have the opportunity to control your world there's a lot of things you can't control but those that you can you know take charge of it own it and do the best you can with it and creating your own value is is like you may have a job that doesn't look like it's this great job and anybody's paying any attention to you but if you just kick butt in in how you do it and you take great pride in it and you respect the heck out of that opportunity somebody eventually going to say hey what's going on over here and you get their attention you you make not you you make yourself visible in in an environment that maybe other people just say Ah that's not that big a deal you know and they don't go for it so it's it's really to it's an empowering thought take charge take control of it and you make something out of it and you'd be surprised what'll happen because to do that you got to have attitude you know you got to have attitude and that's what comes across I think and that's what can be extremely valuable getting started keep going on that like that I I haven't interviewed you probably in 20 years yeah like I was thinking about that coming in like we just talk like and a lot of it is because I'm like kind of have an idea what you might say or we don't want to record it one of those but this is fun for me because I'm like w framework I haven't done this in a long time and I worked for you in my 20s I've always said that you took the clay that my parents created and molded it like you challenged me on style Vision theme philosophy like all the stuff that we wrote about in your book and you've curated over the course of your lifetime and now like I'm a dad with two kids and family and like you're trying to do the same as a head coach of a flag team you know but how does that land on you for somebody that you you really impacted 20 plus years ago and the thing that I still pull out is like just go create value man like as a broadcaster as a dad whatever and of all the things you've taught me I think that is like the thing that lands the most well the principle of it is really powerful again I go back to you you realize that you're the one that's in charge of your life and so do something about it you know get after it and how you going to do that well a simple thought to me is you know just do really well at what you're doing until somebody notices and and maybe something happens likely it will and uh and and I again I go back to that's it takes attitude to do that it takes a mentality to to seize the opportunity in the moment and then then when you when it happens you go for it and you snatch it and you go to the next thing you know and people realize how valuable you are cuz not everybody does does that but everybody could it's a simple thought you it's just you know people don't realize how important that is so when do you think you realized it or did you just I don't know I me what you I mean you wrote the forward of five star QB and it talked about coaching at 8 years old yeah you know and then and you've had this illustrious career where you know you've gotten fired you've gotten hired like you've seen a little bit of everything I wonder if there was a turn you're like okay I'm going to take a little bit more control or was it just an evolution well no there's there's a yeah there's a lot of moments in there you know that add up and that contribute to the mentality I mean this is just pop like okay always compete you know it didn't happen like that you know did it took a long time to put things together and to make sense of it through tons of of teaching and and inspiration and uh observation and failures for sure the suffering was all part of it you know and the growth and all of that the best things happened when I was in my worst situation you know in New England and uh so but so it's a process of put things together but the point of it is as a coach I I'm I'm I'm compelled I've got to put my stuff together so that I can share it with the guys around me so they can act in accordance if I can't explain what I'm you know what I'm thinking where I have this thought how things should be and I can't share that with the people around me then it's not worth a darn so it's coming back to realizing I've got to make things in a certain order that people can act upon it and they can act in accordance and now they can be an extension of the message and we can be more more fully connected and and coordinated that's that's why language is so important and no synonyms and you know and say things the same and and repetition and and consistency and all those things are so important that's so that you can teach well so that they can learn well you know and that's that that's all where it comes from do you still think that the best teachings come from your biggest failures well I I I kind of think that's life yeah you know we we suffer through and we we I hate to I hate to to uh to learn the hard way you know I've always said that I let the other guy learn the hard way but the the great lessons do come out of how you respond and what you do about it and that's why to me it's become something that's I'm really attracted to in observing people in the situation where whether they did we well or they didn't do well how do they respond because that's telling me who they are and they're showing what's coming out of their experience and that's really valuable in figuring things out one of the coolest things I I get to do as broadcast you production meetings right you remember those done millions of them and I've always asked the same question this is 18 years I think call games and head coach coordinator player is what's the philosophy or a version of like what matters most around here and if they're not on the same page among all three groups you can kind of predict the game so you had that moment you referenc the Patriots where okay you get let go you have this year off it's page one up wi forever slam the book shut stun and you talk about John Wood and you had this philosophy kind of emerge right right and then you've lived it at these two stops like have you been able to look back on the last is it been precisely precisely in this period since leaving the Seahawks I yanked the book out again Glennon told me you know you at least take a look at what it looks like you know and I read through the whole thing and I was blown away I was blown away how strict I stayed to it I I I haven't changed the thoughts that because they were the right thoughts We Came Upon the right stuff to express that was the important stuff that was meaningful that that had a place and I could work up and I'm way better at it than I was and I've learned a ton along the way but but I mean it's to the letter you Tom Cable said one time you know uh said the thing drives me crazy so uncommonly consistent and I like wow that's cool you know that's a great thing to be you know but it was kind of pissing him off CU I wouldn't waver you know but it showed up and so yeah looking back and I used to say people would ask you know how how are you doing you doing great or are you not what do you think and so I'll tell you when we look back someday you know we get out there and I can evaluate from you know once we've finished and then I'll give you an idea what I think of it and and now I'm really proud I'm really proud and I'm proud that that the messaging and the mentality was was consistent and successful and it was it was such that I could share it with people and other people could go ahead and make their own versions of it and learn from it and not do it but just do it in a ordance to you know how they see things and so uh yeah I so I have looked back at it and just just recently in the last couple months you know so it's been um it's been enlightening I had no idea that I stuck to it that much ready set dream cabin nestled in the woods Just 4 hours to go new job halfway across the country butterflies before a first date wherever you go 76 fuels all the ways you go go go the clarity that comes from stepping away this brain I have now that I'm operating with it ain't the same as it was it's different you know and and I because I've been able to move the burden of you know the burden of the competing and all of the the the day-to-day and all of the things that were going on to the side um the lessons from early on are stronger than ever my desire to get back into where it comes from is is more important to me than ever and the work that I'm doing going forward in the in the months ahead is going right back to and and revisiting and and and hopefully rekindling tons of stuff that uh that comes from a really special place there was a lot of stuff there was a lot of Eastern influence in in the stuff that I there was the early people that I I was influenced by you know and and they were the ones that got me going you know and and they had gone through a similar experience they just they put it into their work I didn't try to do it it just became me and you know teaching inner game stuff and and stuff from Michael Murphy uh um stuff stuff from from goway was is hugely in part of my game about selft talk and and letting happen and and how we see the game and how we let it flow and all of those things have all always been there but they mean more to me now than ever and uh it's been really really fun it's been really exciting think anybody who observes a coach whether they're a fan or they're someone in the business whatever you just imagine it's a maniacal job like there's so much going on somebody once described you in Seattle as the true point guard just bouncing around facility like just passing the ball hitting every room myself as a shooter like okay but to that point can can you describe uh what what is the responsibility of that job and I'm curious what it's like to to slow down or or not have that Cadence that's what I was talking about it's it's entirely a different mentality you know that I'm that I'm living in waking up to every morning and on fire in the morning you know with the thoughts and what's coming up it's just different I dream about football I don't act on it during the day you know and and it's it's that's kind of very consistent um but really it's it's uh it's just about trying to make sense of things and make it more clear and understand with more depth and appreciate the all of the the people and the exchanges and the opportunities and the challenges and all of that um from a different perspective you know than in the midst of it you know and uh it's been it's been really you know it's been really important I don't remember the year might have been 2014 or 15 we were up there a lot we were following you guys um and you were competing as you would say like to find like the space between the notes so the note would be like a meeting and then the next meeting would be at the hotel five hours later so you go compete in in La we'd run to the beach for five hours right in Seattle you'd get on your jet ski or whatever it was for five hours what was that like and is it different now as like are you still competing to find that space or is it more of a no no it's different no that is different it was really the thought was the spaces between the spaces and trying to maximize those you know and and uh because they were limited and and it took Focus to take advantage of the moments that that are you know it might be 15 minutes you know it might be in between calls or it might be in like you said in between meetings uh certainly the quiet time after practice you know and you know I love to be by myself during those times but um yeah that that's being it's discipline it's the discipline to maximize that little moment that you that you have and that takes really good focus and you got to be able to shut the world off and so it's a little bit of a meditation in it in itself in a in a unique way but it was uh it's it's been a really important aspect when you're so busy it's different now there and now those spaces expand and and the opportunities to really draw in what's going on what could happen and what to expect and what to anticipate and what you want to create and where you want to go with it and and what are the possibilities of that that kind of thinking is what feels so expansive and just enjoying the heck out of it you know it's been you I think been a global guy like you traveled the world you can communicate with anybody from any back background or backdrop um but this sounds different like it sounds like you're seeing the world like from a different lens than maybe ever before I don't know if that's true or not but it's like I think every football coach is dialed some coaches were like you and they could see the world and they recognize other things that are happening around you feels like you're seeing like the whole planet in a different way from just listening to you I don't know if that's true I don't know um it's still compe in yoke it's the same mentality about it it doesn't that has stayed true you know that you know you're either competing or you're not you know and that's that's that means that you're seeing the moments come and you and you you do everything you can you immerse yourself into it as much as possible and draw as much from it and give as much to it really it's the giving part of it that's it's become even more uh uh true to my heart you know I want to give in every way that I can and and so that's what this time is for I think it's to get thoughts collected ideas and creative opportunities connected so that we can really do some amazing things so that that's all of that is kind of driving what I'm doing dayto day now it's interesting um yeah part of the Pack 12 had been since I came out here started working for you and when it started to fall apart I to figure out like how how am I going to compete through this and I came up with this phrase that I have on my little wristband here which is be light and I was like I need to be light because things are going to change it's going to change in my life how am I going navigate that you know I'm an intense guy by Nature as it is had to be light but two I stole this from David Brooks of like being an Illuminator like how many people can you shine a light on then thirdly when you get your shot you're going to light at the blank up like you can go light it up you get your shot and and I I wonder how you feel about that idea of like being light amid a transition in life yeah yeah I I interpret the the the light um explanation of it is is is being open you know and being receptive uh and not being stuck you know openhearted warm-hearted you know available for whatever's coming that's to me is that's competing you know you're you're you're ready bring it you know and and then that's just part of it though that that just gets you to the moment what the the real competing is is that you can relax in the moment and really get it all don't don't just brush through something and you they people would think you know that I'm you know I'm jumping in man out I'm not paying attention I'm all scattered and all that that that is me but in those moments in between if I can capture and I can see it I can feel it and I can sense somebody I can you know get feel the emotional connection that just just took place then I'm going to try to go for it and get right in it and make sure that I I'm there and available for all of it that's what light means to me as opposed to being burdened and you know drawn down and anxious and worried and concerned ah you're not going to go very far over there you're G to get stuck you know and so could bring you back out of that so let's talk about competing for a second because this the second conversation that I recall most among the ones that we've had In Our Lifetime together is uh just had my fifth wedding anniversary and congratulations you were in Seattle for a while and I just needed some time so I called you I was like yeah I got to fly up I need a little time about to go get married and I'm walking into your office I don't know if you remember this and I was just expecting like a good hang and you sat me down and I got like blistered on how to compete in marriage and I have I'm a kicking ass I'm a frust it as a husband and his dad just so you know uh but it's also a beautiful word it doesn't it's not a heavy word to me competing I think when people hear you say like competing like there can be an interpretation like go kick ass like so take us through like that that is a word that has yeah I I realize that it's a word that takes people to what they're upbringing their their experiences have been and that's why I try to get quick I quickly try to get to uh talking about the definition of it it's it's striving for excellence competing isn't winning losing stomping on somebody's neck and you know rubbing their face in the dirt that that's not what I'm talking about we're talking about striving that you're in pursuit of excellence in everything that you can think of that doesn't mean that you're trying to beat somebody it means you're trying to you're trying to be everything you can be to be great at whatever you're doing and certainly in your marriage and in your family you can strive to figure it out how to just be there for them and give to them at all times and always be on and the greatest joy comes back in that giving and so if if you can stay connected and stay out of your own little miserable little world of stuff that's going wrong and stay connected to working with the moments of the in the exchanges and the duties and the responsibilities and the habits and you know the stuff that can get to be like maybe numbing or drumming drumming you down into I think it's the other way around you know you find how to make that work for you because you're giving to this wonderful person that you've chosen to spend your life with as well as your kids what's really cool to me now is being a grandpa I mean being a grandpa is like it's so much better than being a a dad because the relationship just changes and so I'm I can't get enough of my grandkids I mean I just can't get enough of them I do anything they can I'm up at 5:40 this morning and we're playing uh a Star Wars Monopoly you know on the on the on the kitchen floor you know and that's with with my little guys you know and that was I I couldn't wait for them to wake me up you know sure enough they did hey Grandpa you want to get up I'd made him promise me at the night before you know anyway so you know that that's is really important stuff so the part that has worked out so well in my my mind is that I can see it fit everywhere you know I see I see striving for doing something really cool in everything and and that's why I I love the phrases and the you know you're either competing or you're not there's no in between if you're not if you're not competing then you ain't striving and so now what are you doing you're just sitting there you're just drifting off you know you're letting it go you're letting something you know get by and and uh you know in the phrase you know in Relentless pursuit of finding the Competitive Edge and everything you're doing that's a real phrase it's an overwhelming phrase to somebody I've got to compete well they they miss it you strive to do something great that's that's burden that's burdensome you know to find out how to communicate relate better with your son or your daughter or your wife or whatever yeah that's that's the real deal you know that's real living and it also the strive if if you decide to strive I feel like you're giving yourself to the whatever the opportunity is and that's that's again where you're opened for the greatest gifts to return you know and so there yeah there's a little selfish in that one you know I'd like to be great at being a dad and great at being a husband great at being a coach and great you know being a friend and and so that's where all that comes from and I know it's you know it sounds obsessive whatever I don't care I care less but I'm I want to share it so people have a choice to understand that there is a way to how to go about it and be in command of your own world that's that's really what to me that's you know leads you to um every time I talk to a locker room of football players I ask how many consider yourself a Storyteller maybe five raise their hand I say how many you have social media the whole room does I say you're you're living a story every day you've often said like you're living your philosophy every day whether you realize it or not yeah to your point about coaches because I think you're known P Carol competing anybody in sport would say that they'd also second sentence probably be like he's going to coach you on having to have a philosophy when coaches are wondering like how do I how do I do that yeah like how do you help them have depth because when I've asked this in production meetings I get all great words right I just get a variance of words and I ah didn't really own that answer like I don't feel it in the dep a couple later see what they say yeah yeah so I'm curious for you like how do you how do you coach somebody up on like how to how to get there it's it's a it's a process it's a process of self-discovery you that you're going through it it's happening you might want to gain control of what's going on you know and be aware of it because you like like we say the you you've already made all the choices that guide your life you know how you get up in the morning what you do you know how you act what you wear you know the music you listen to the books you read whatever those are all choices that you're making but they they become something magnanimous in your life when you realize yes these are the choices that I've been making and this tells me a story of who I am and what I'm all about so that there's a process in there that there's no easy way to do it you either do it or you don't and you have to work at it you have to take yourself through it and you got to it's painfully it's painstaking to hang with it till you get to the words that really represent what your thoughts and your feelings are to just write something down that you heard that don't mean nothing you know it's that's a start but then look at the words do the words really stand for what you believe in always compete man you know I mean it's look I can't get any more simple you know that's as simple as it gets you know and and respect means regard you know and th those those decisions that you've made about the thoughts and the feelings that you have and my favorite one is talking about uncompromising principles you know what are the principles that you you're you're that's you you're not bending you're going to fight your ass off to prove that this is what you feel that until you realize what those are and there might not be very many of them in your life you might not even know and it might take you a long time to get there that doesn't mean that you it's not worth going for it's not worth pursuing because to get there and to understand the depth allows you to act in accordance with the person you know yourself to be you know that that's it's crucial and if and if you take pride in being you then you've got to be authentic and to be authentic you got to be consistent and so to be consistent you got to know what the heck you're repeating their teams can go win a championship and do something and if they don't really know how they got there they ain't going to do it again they'll May luck into it some years later it's being able to come back and utilize the principles that you believed in that took you to the place that you you know you achieved that allows you to come back anybody can win once you know uh a couple years ago I made up a project called it the napkin project so if I gave you a napkin right now on one end you'd write how you believe you impact the world flip it over give it to somebody on your staff and they'd have to write how they believe you impact them and you open it up find it do they mirror each other yeah and I did the exercise first uh with this production company I'm always working with at a Portland called Blue Hawks and it was the complete opposite how I was impacting them and how I thought I was impacting the world and it was amazing to be like oh my God how wrong can you be dude like these guys know you intimately uh and I wonder what if coaches did that and their staffs in your experience um what do you think would happen like do you think there's a world where the head coach has to open up this call it the jar of vulnerability to be willing to go for it because how many guys have said to you when You' hired them I've never been asked that question before I've never been asked what My Philosophy is never been asked to go there and compete most everybody's that that way yeah most everybody why is that what's I don't know you remember I I I was asked to speak at a at a convention in Washington DC that was a it was all on all forces I mean Army Navy Air Force they're all there you know and it was the leaders and they were talking about setting a new kind of course that they wanted to get connected whatever it was and we had these subgroups and in my subgroup we were yapping and we were going to make had to make a presentation and they asked me to to lead it you know my little subgroup so one of the first thing I I asked is is uh uh do you have a philosophy if you have a philosophy raise your hand and you know always is about 20% of the crowd May raise their hand kind of wimpy and said okay and and keep your hands in the air if uh if you can explain to us right now in 25 words or less what your philosophy is you know keep your hand up and all the hands go down you know and the table right in front of me is these circle of generals there's like six of them sitting at this this right there and and one of the guy who's one of the lead dogs he had his hand up and he pull his hand out I said oh I got you you know and I thought oh geez because they all just all started squirming in the seat because I'm talking to the general he couldn't explain it okay so think about that think about how far he's gotten how many people he's he's impacted how much how many decisions he's made the choices life and death and whatever and he don't have he can't answer it well that doesn't mean he's not good at what he does he because he's got a philosophy he doesn't know how to explain it he doesn't know how to express it and so that means to me that how could he possibly count on the people around him to be connected as as well as they need to be to function at such a high level that that's you know that's that's all that that's what it's all about you know and so it's so anyway it's a great exercise and I know that when I challenge people I know they don't do it you know because they ain't Tough Enough it's hard it's hard to go down and dig in and and make yourself they'll give up you know but it's not it's not that it's not a good idea to press you on it and it it's self-awareness uh it's it's an understanding of who you are I mean we're going to ask the quarterbacks basically the same kind of stuff during the the couple days they're here cuz you we need to help them understand who they are they have figured out if they're going to be great and if they don't figure it out they'll be good sometimes so what does it take to be a great quarterback these guys now I mean you see it Brennan's coaching at you Nate and Carolina you were with a bunch of QBs obviously yeah a lot more coming at him than was coming at Carson and Matt and JD and Mark back in the day at least in their phone in their pocket yeah yeah there's a lot there's a lot more outside yeah the game is still the same you know to me but it's it's a it's been affected because of you know that effect that's coming from the outside um to play quarterback it takes everything anybody's ever thought of in the history of sports I mean every game lacrosse hockey soccer you know everything tennis basketball they they all come in to play when you're a quarterback because the the the intuition that quarterbacks have to grow to understand how they'll respond in the situations that they respond to in a split second based on the score in the game the time in the game what the call just was my guy's limping over here he you know my right tackle is getting whipped by the guy with this Russian the millions and millions of variables that go into play in this this makes it just an extraordinary an extraordinary Challenge and I the the fact that we're here at Elite 11 and Andy bark has set his whole life kind of in order to help young guys figure this thing out and it it I don't know how frustrated Andy is but he must be because most of them don't figure it out it's so freaking hard and so complex they figure it out to degrees you know and uh so you know what's it take to be a good quarterback is that kind of what you asked yeah well there's some skills obviously that you got to have but it's so much more than that and what I'm looking for I'm looking for how guys respond I'm looking for how they react how do they handle what just took place whether it's good or whether is bad whether they just threw a great pass how do they respond what happens next that's what I want to know and here's the reason why you need to know who your quarterback is as a coach and to be successful you need to know what to expect from him and you need to know what positions to put him in so that he can operate at its best so you need to know that guy inside and out every which way and then we need to help him understand who he is in every which way so that he can do the things he's capable of doing in the Moment of Truth there's millions of moments in at this position that call for you to to find your best and that is such a challenge you know and if you don't have a really good sense then you probably won't respond the way we can count on it we won't know so we want to know how do you respond when you do well how do you respond when you do poorly how how how are you practicing how you represent how do you present yourself you know and who is that person is way more important than they can throw the ball 55 yards on a line or whatever you know that that's important we can always adapt the game somebody's got to go out there and run this freaking thing and is harder in hell and we got to get a guy in a situation where he can be at his best where we can count on him if you want to win so interesting and you helped on on the book five star QB and the numbers are staggering in terms of how many guys transfer how many guys don't make it and they're all told every kid here at 11 there's 20 quarterbacks they're all told they're going be first round picks and now they're kind of PID they're paid more than fifth round picks like this what reality is so I think I think it's hard for them to navigate at the young age that they are external reality internal reality once they get in the facility and then there's all these other added pressures of well this is the guy that yeah maybe we spent x amount of dollars on this is the expectation we have on him so I think there it's like a whole support system around that position that has that has changed I wonder is it like the NFL the the well come back to that the the the key in performance is being there in the moment being available to function clearly and fully like you're capable in the moment to do that as Galloway taught us a long time ago you you if you can command a quieted mind a mind that is chilled and and and and quiet and not discursively affected and and and you know distracted that's the challenge okay so when Carson Palmer was playing and he's the Heisman Trophy when her first guy picked in the draft there's a lot going on around them big all the hype all the buildup and all we talk about it forever but now there's a whole another element to this thing and it's just another element and you still have to get to the same spot Carson had to get to if you want to be great and you have to get there more than the other guys more consistently you have to find it more consistently where we can count on so that we can set you up so that you can have have success and so that challenge has been just geometrically exploded whatever it's it's it couldn't be more of a factor parents are more involved in it agents lawyers you know money people uh uh business types they're all part of the factor and how can we protect this kid's brain so that he can play quieted like he needs to so that he can play like he's capable that that's the challenge and it just pisses me off I'm so freaking pissed that somebody put this on these kids it's it's just it's it's enough to be a young kid playing the game and going to high school and growing up there's enough right there but to put all this other stuff in their brain so it's more important than ever that they can find how to command that you know that interaction that goes on you know the the distraction uh so that you can let yourself play like you're capable that's it's the same challenge as always it's just much more impacting college football season ended and I called a dear friend and he's a head coach in college football and I said God what a fun season does it feel like it just became like real cloudy though because the day the games were over it became all the other stuff which is new it's new to college football there isn't a Cadence like there was in the NFL with free agency the draft whatever uh it's just kind of Muddy 24/7 crazy town it's the Wild Wild West is just it's rolling but the games like you went to Coliseum it feel just like it did back in the day it's a nothing can touch the games but I ask you like as as a as a fan of college football right your oldest son is a coordinator at Washington you for multiple head jobs like he's he's in the game of college football what's your lens on the sport that you had dramatic success that level the calling for the discipline that it takes to to spatially put things where they where they can stay out of the main thing that's the main thing which is the game you know and and it's the same thing for the quarterbacks same thing for the coaches the the Rhythm as you're talking about in the off season it's an ongoing I'm always recruiting I've got to recruit this guy to the to the next portal you know I mean I gotta I got to keep him in a program and I'm already hearing different language I'm already hearing different approach I'm already hearing uh different styles of offseason programs even in the NFL the the kids are coming in different they've been affected by Co and all the stuff that's happened and and and now you know the nil stuff it's affected their way of thinking it's it's it's happening in the business world too people can see that people don't want to come to work you know why why am I why I have to come in on on Friday or Thursday can I I can do all my work at home well that mentality is misleading misguiding of what people's intentions are but it's real and it's and it's legit so it's it's an adaptation that's taking place right now and it's it's uh it's overwhelming all but and because the game's the game we have to get back get them back to the game so whatever that other stuff is it needs to be somewhere else so that we can find the time to be in the game like you need to be and I it's a great challenge it's a great challenge I think you can see signs of it too I think you can see signs of even in the play but we talk about that um couple more for you um we've always had the same phone call every time somebody tries to capture the era when you were at SC the phone call goes something like didn't really get it right like didn't because it was about Hollywood or about like an agenda of Leaning into Los Angeles versus creating a culture from within and that's how I saw it from living it for for four years you were there for nine uh when you look back in your time at SC like how do you describe the the magic that was created at a time that didn't have a pro sports team there was no social media football media rights were nowhere near what they are now we were the show what do you think yeah we it was a golden opportunity and they had been lousy you know they had done well and the expectations were low and I got blasted going in you know they thought you know who's this clown you know and they're right you know I'd been fired a couple times they I didn't discount what their opinions were I just needed to kick ass and not let that be true you know um but we did have a we had a rare opportunity you know Twitter was just starting and Ben malcolmson was there available to teach me and we helped me we played with it we had fun we had so much fun doing what we were doing and and we worked like crazy and we recruited like crazy and we had our expectations as high as we could imagine them and we're willing to live with that and uh it it was just a a golden age for you know my favorite time in in ball you know and there's nothing I could have done in the NFL that would have topped that it was and I knew that you know and I just kind of the fact that I was leaving I was just going to cherish that time you know because and unfortunately people looked at us and they thought there's no way you can have that much fun there's no way that you could be doing it like that you must be doing something wrong and H you know we get in trouble after after it's all said and done years later you know so um but it was it was just and the coaches were so good you know and I lost so many good coaches it was hard to keep the level of intensity that we had developed in the time that we were there you bring somebody into that and they tried to fit in and plug in but it was hard you know it was a lot to ask edio and and Sark and Lane those guys were amazing ball coaches you know and and they've they've proven it you know they're they're awesome and and to lose those guys and not replace them they they were irreplaceable in a sense because they had grown up with us you know and they were part of it so anyway it was a very very special time and it'll always holding that place for me yeah I there's one thing that really bothers me about that time is that people sometimes light you up for leaving and I'm always defensive of it and I said no look you got to trust me if I know him as well as anybody that you know uh if he had any idea what was coming there's no chance he's leaving there's there's just no chance it changed his life and and I feel like I don't it bothers me every time somebody says that yeah I there's nothing I can do about it because it looks like that it looks like we bailed you know that's not what happened and and we were out and then it had been years from the time they started the process that it was three four years or whatever it was we had forgotten about we weren't worried about it anymore it was gone and then I when we leave there was it got whatever they came to some kind of conclusion or whatever that happened you know and and brought it all back up again but there's nothing you can do about it and I don't fight it because people don't want to they don't want to hear it you know but it's it's okay it's you know we had a great time and we did great stuff and it we we've affected a lot of people in a really really special ways and we taught a lot too you know we did a lot of teaching during that time and which really proud of think of all of our guys that went out and did stuff and took their their version of what we were trying to do and faltered just like we all do and and then you know it's so hard to be a good head coach when you're young it's so hard it's just there's just so much to it you know there's so many decisions to be made and premises to hold and philosophies to you know to expound on and uh it just takes a while you know and so our guys falter a little bit but they're back you know they're back 81 his is ntion you know Natty and and uh these guys are both going to get one before it said and done you know I'm talking about SAR and Lane you know oh they're rolling yeah no doubt it'll be fun to see them in the same league yeah I mean uh you we talked about it before um reg he gets his Heisman back I always thought it was interesting at the Heisman for you you you never really went to the night when they got it my interpretation is that was you were like give Carson and Matt and Reggie their their day in the sun then he would always fly the next day to go to the dinner or whatever was that on purpose yeah that wasn't my deal that was their deal you know I didn't want to get in there and rain in on it the work had been done you know and then and the statements had been made of who they are and now if they going to get recognize great you know great you know then what did you know you take it you put on a shelf you know and they somebody tried to take it away from they never got out away from Reggie he was the highman trophy winner and there there was it just was yeah because of some declaration they make they put the trophy somewhere else but he was the dude and he was everything that you needed to be to earn that and own it you know and all that so I I probably just put it in a little different light than most people do when you think of your career coaching like what are some of the things that pop so many games yeah well the mostly the fun mostly the fun because like you know I was always saying that if we're not having fun I'm screwing up you know and and the fun came from uh the challenges uh in the games for sure and the big wins and the big come from behinds and the great finishes and the the Rises at the end of the season and the way we used to finish our season so well all of that takes such great pride and it was so fun to see it happen because that was by Design we were trying to finish great you know and and when we were able to do it year in and year out and that was that was really rewarding and it felt great to to to see that continue to happen but uh um the best part is playing catch man the best part of it you know throwing a ball every day and uh is is simple as that may seem it just takes me right back to being a kid you know and and loving the chance to play in the game and to make the call make the catch make the throw whatever it was hit the home run you know whatever it was that was uh what life was to me and it still is you know I'm still trying to hit jumpers you the top of key it's moving in a little bit you know I'm still trying to hit that winter before I go in the house you know and uh that's just always been it's always it's always been the fun really I go back to that and and find that there's never enough wins there's Never Enough wins there wasn't and there never will be you know coming back if I was coming back to coach again there's never going to be enough there was a time and I got wrecked at SC you know when we won three years in a row you know we won every game for years that's the real deal man that was that's living man that living it changed it changed coaching like every coach started talking about competing in practice every like that's where it really became a mic we had we had a chance to you know to make a statement in there because we we did stuff long enough that people recognize you know any regrets in your career you think about it the yeah yeah sure not winning there's there's games you know it's it's The Games That Got Away the Texas game you know huge the Patriots game you know huge those moments that they were right there to be you didn't have to do anything just just the next snap next step you take just just take that step and then it goes the other way you know and uh are you one of those like have you watched those back either one of those two mm yeah I can't IM I have I've seen I've seen the glimpse of the highlights I've never watched those games again it's just too painful I just don't want to I I don't need to go there you know I lived it you know been there done that one you told me something um it was really cool we were in Hawaii I'm probably 23 and I went to dinner with you and uh your wife Glenna probably Brandon and Amber and I said what's it like being like a dad in this profession and you like again and this could just be my interpretation but you it felt like you grabbed me and like stare me deep into my soul and you said well y um it's not about making it the whole game but it's competing to get to the sixth inning of a seven inning game and always just making an effort and it's okay that you have dreams and passions you to go for them but compete to always show up for your family even though it may not look like the family down the block and and I say that having you know known you for a while and I'm curious like when you look back on you your Grandpa now you've got grown kids you got this family you got this amazing Community uh what you think about how you've competed as a parent throughout your coaching career yeah I I there's there's a lot of stuff that I would have done better if I had a chance to do it over again early on just would have been better at it um like I've told Glenna within I don't know last five or six years or something like that you you you make all the decisions now I made all those ones I screwed up a bunch of them here and there or whatever now I'm I'm on you you know you deserve you know to get us right here as we finish this thing up I want I want to kick ass at the end so I'm going with my strength I'm listening to whatever you want to and uh it's been I've loved that you know we made a bunch of choices to move we moved all over the place you know one year here one year there nine months you know this job that job that job just chasing fun and chasing the opportunity and all of that but they were hard on them hard on the kids hard on on on her just disruptive because I wanted to go coach somebody else's defensive backs you know come on and so she was great because she's a competitor too and she's awesome but uh I wouldn't do it that way I would I would those decisions would be different and and uh I just you know I don't know what the result would have been but I would have done those things more in tune with everybody's needs rather than what Pete wanted to do yeah a couple years ago I was interviewing Chris Peterson who I know you know well in respect I asked him probably one of the worst questions I could have asked him I said so you going to keep you going to go coach again and he goes I'm coaching every day man yeah and I was like touche yeah yeah that's what it feels like I I totally agree with Chris that's what it feels like and and that's all I know how to do and I'm going to keep doing it you know and and I really feel Y and I've come to it and understand everybody needs to be coached up if you want to be great it it doesn't it isn't like you did it here okay now you're great you got to keep getting coached up because I realized how much I've learned in my in the years that I've added on and there another year another year there's always stuff to get better out if you stay curious you know if you care and it's important to you then there's always stuff so matter of fact like if we do some teaching I might do a little be involved with some some education stuff then uh what I really would like to do is figure out the format so that once somebody leaves your class they stay connected to you so that they can keep learning you can stay with them you know it's like do we stay with the NFL players no not good enough you know do we stay with servicemen no not good enough can we do a better job when people retire no yes we could you know we don't do a good enough job of that and and knowing how much there is still available to to draw and to grow from you know um that's I'm I'm more compelled to figure that out I hope AI helps us you know I'm sure it's going to you know we need to figure out ways to help people continue to stay connected with the growth that they're on don't just leave them on their own you know be there for them it's interesting I think um and I'd say the same with the Le 11 right it's it's you don't I talk to guys when their careers are over yeah not really when they're in them unless they call their games yeah you know just kind of unfort how it's gone we could easily compete to do better there um there is a good connection for quarterbacks um I think I think it's this this intimacy that's created Andy figured out a long time ago has guys stay with it their pride their pride is still connected to it and and that's a cool thing and maybe they could be engaged more and all of that and I know we bring guys back right and guys come back to it and all that that's a that's really the right kind of enrichment uh so the people can continue to expand as they go on that that's been that was the cool part about writing the book five star QB I just called up guys from 20 years and every every QB I'm in what how can I throw down for the Cause right um so I think it's interesting just last one here from being in this chair I can find myself instantly going back to like graduate assistant in his 20s right I wonder like if you were with Lou Holtz would you go back to graduate assistant Pete Carol and I say that of like I have all these like memories of of course I would yeah okay so it's it's it's an interesting Dynamic right of yeah of in real time talking about it but I think back to I loved coaching a ton I love life one would argue even more um and you told me you're like don't coach so I wonder now like here I am 20 years 15 20 years later like when you reflect back on that cuz at that age for me it was a huge statement from somebody like you and then my career obviously went in coaching adjacent as a broadcaster Storyteller Etc and haven't left Southern California yeah I didn't want you to be restricted I mean it was a selfish thought that I could tell you something like that but we were close enough to you know to share the real stuff and and just you have so much more to offer from your ability to find perspective and and insights and your willingness to dig in and all that you're different than than other coaches you have I thought you had more unique stuff to offer and that's that's why I was that's why I said that you know and you you're doing it man it's awesome yeah here we are when you do an interview session I know I know man um it was cool I mean I I thought about this morning I haven't interviewed you probably since USPS it.com really like why would I you know like I just call you you know and I've had a podcast for a decade and never had you on it I'm like yeah it's been a blast show to to follow all of the stuff that you've done CU you unlike almost anybody else I've been around you stayed connected to the stuff and and you found out you know how you would interpret it and how others could see it and you've tried to share and give them insights and all of that stuff and it you you've taken a path that nobody else could have taken but you and I was always hoping that you would yeah well thanks man I mean your impact on me was so profound I wish every 20-year-old got to have their first real job out of college under somebody uh I wish my teammates got to play for you I've told pretty much all of them that uh but your impact on me as a dad like I compete to make sure there's no pollution in our house that's what I'm talking about like I'm like I'm telling you man like and it's really a cool thought we compete to like live with Integrity whatever it may be um it comes from that foundational idea of like style Vision theme philosophy what is it don't be BS about it so thank you um is an moment has a 42y old thanks for thanks for giving me the shot it's the Afterglow Jim thornby Yogi Roth that was P Carol presented by our founding partner 76 Jim questions you wish we asked big takeaways you had from one of the most iconic coaches in our lifetime um again like I kind of said but beforehand it's just it's it's it was not a conventional interview by by any stretch of the imagination it was just getting you know I literally was a fly on the wall for the interview but everyone else now gets to be a fly on the wall I'm just h of the two of you having that conversation and the two of you like you know going through your relationship and the advice he's given you over the years and how you've taken that and you almost kind of like turn that back on him like how those advice you know using that towards him now uh so which was fun but um yeah it was just it was just really cool I mean it's it's not something you know when it when it all said and done you know he's one of the great football coaches in the history of college football now I know he he's not eligible for the College Football Hall of Fame because he only he's one season short of of doing that but you can't tell me that his impact on the game is not worthy of that same like with Mike Leech who's like one win short of you know if he would have won one more game he would have been eligible for the College Football Hall of Fame sometimes you know I get it you have to have certain standards so that everything but like as far as guys that have impacted the college game the last 25 years it's hard to find two more you know you know Nick Savin in that conversation but you know those two guys are iconic uh and then for that for that to be your personal Mentor you know someone that you've had that deep relationship with not just on the field off the field families you know Al together like it's it's pretty special yeah I I'll say this Mike Leech Pete Carol uh have changed the game I would imagine if either one were inducted into the college football of Fame they would feel tremendous pride in that but I'd also imagine that neither one of them is going to spend a lot of time during the day worrying about that whether it's you know here with in you know with P Carroll or wherever Mike Leech is orbiting the universe right now but why should they be in it they should be in it because all of the young coaches that aspire to be great that aspire to win that aspire to thrive that aspire to impact look to those two I mean look go around High School football What offense you running I'll run a version of the air raid learn from Michael Lech read about in his book learn it from how momy like they go there hey what are your practices like or always based on competition learn that from Pete Caroll like I hear that all of the time coming off the road trip in the midwest the amount of times coaches said I read the book you wrote with Pete is it's too many for me to count assistant coaches graduate assistant coaches analysts head coaches it's in their offices like he changed the game so how let's talk a couple examples if you track college football when we had it rolling at SC who had it rolling next and what did they say look at Urban Meyer practice is all about competition look at Nick Sabin it's all about competition nobody was doing ones versus ones it was always one offense two defense two defense one offense when we were at SC it was the best against the best and I'm coming off of seeing Oregon and Ohio State and Michigan and Penn State they practice like that they practice a version of that and and I think the one thing that you know why I think he needs to continue to to maybe either do content or to continue to share his insights is that I think coaches need to take something from him in terms of every moment his teams went for it and for Pete every moment like he said in our interview he's going for like how classic is it when we ask him about retirement or we ask him about his life right now and he's like I'm really competing to be okay with where I am in the moment only like that is him he was competing to play Star Wars Monopoly with his grandchildren at 5 in the morning yeah like I I just think there's so many beautiful traits which is why I would urge the committee like every committee we adjust and move right I still think pits in the Big East they play in the ACC conference realignment has been crazy I think we can make a couple adjustments in the college footballall thing yeah why not I mean sometimes logic needs to take over and I'm I know I'm asking for a lot for logic in college football after what we've seen the last couple of years um which we have seen very directly uh but yeah I I think this would something that makes sense unfortunately you know coach Le will will would not be around to see whenever that change was made but hopefully we can you know make that change before before that's time for Coach Carol am man okay so before we kick out of here um I want to thank the SC fans who listened and watched and or the people who were critics of P Carol to spend the time and watch and of course those who celebrated him because you feel how much he loved that institution and how USC impacted him and how he's always carried what that place did for him so deeply within his heart and we talked about it we went there on how I I would get frustrated and pissed when he get overally criticized and and how he has navigated that at times I think two is that I hope that everybody Tak something away from the leadership traits and apply it to your life right whether you're a parent whether you're startup company like you and I uh whether you're a coach at any level or you're just trying to be the best version of yourself every day I think there's some beautiful elements to take away from this and then I I think there's few conversations in my lifetime that I go back and listen to again right one is I'll listen to Kobe and Jay Shetty I love going back to that once a year uh this I think is going to be one that will R to revisit so bookmarket share it with a friend uh I think it'll impact a lot of people and then finally here we are in gameweek one of the core elements I learned from being on Pete Carrol staff was contingency planning I cannot wait to get to Eugene Oregon in year three for Dan Landing where we know that he's an aggressive coach and we also know as he says you got to take your medicine he's taken a two as a head coach he's learned a lot I think his growth is been tremendous I think is about to take up all the space all of the space that Jim Harbaugh and Nick Sabin has left in college football I think Oregon's about to be that type of team that type of program um it's going to be fun to watch I mean here we are in week one uh with that said later this week you're going to hear from the guy I will be standing next to in week one in guy Haberman let's go I can't wait to be around him and Rhett Lewis and Company so to everybody listening thank you you're going to start seeing some new stuff from us here at y option of course at y option.com you'll also start to see some stuff behind the pay wall a little bit we went free everybody got everything for the first six eight weeks of this bad boy and now we're going to start tearing some of that content and that's part of building a business that's part of the joy that we have bringing you college football through the lens of the West Coast so give us your feedback what do you think what do you like where do you want us to grow hopefully you like and enjoy some of the new elements will slowly be rolling out like that hat that's on Jim Thor's head right now so Jim it's coming it's coming as Prime says it's coming we're coming Prime and and and I'm most excited to have you back in the home studio here so we're not having you deal with Hotel Wi-Fi um you know sometimes you just got you just gotta you gotta make the best of it but you know enjoy that's a great call yeah so big Lu to all the Marriotts and hiatts out there and Hilton that I've been staying in the facilities like PID and Michigan State and all the random place the I think we did want it like the on the field at Indiana Stadium so a lot of love to everybody across this is the last time I'm gonna be hopefully doing this from the road for a little bit Jim at least for the SE in in season out out of season who knows maybe you'll be doing one from Bali uh come coming the offseason yeah yeah yeah we'll uh we'll put a poll up where should we go in do an episode from uh but I love you all Jim I'm so grateful for you as we build this thing it really has been fun and energizing and and now here we go here comes Cal in the ACC your Arizona Wildcats in the Big 12 and my pck Panther still in the ACC and of course we know what's going on in the Big 10 uh but from the headquarters at Nike to all of you in your homes hope you enjoyed today's episode lots of love peace [Applause] [Music] [Music]