Michigan vs. Michigan State - Who Has a Better Roster for Next Season?

Intro final topic today it's gonna be a long episode but here we are it's the offseason yada yada who cares uh I've had a couple people had a couple people ask us to do this uh both privately and publicly and I've said we want to wait until rosters are more finalized we're going to compare Michigan versus Michigan State who's better not who do we think is going to win more games who has the better roster if you were going to take one of these two rosters into next season which roster would you take uh you're already doing something with your hands I'll ask you to elaborate in a moment but uh why are we doing this conversation right now because I think both coaches are done adding to their roster I I was told Dusty May was going to try I haven't heard even Rumblings of him reaching out to players in the last week and a half so appears to me right now Michigan's basically done and uh Michigan state has been sitting on their hands since Trey Townson decided not to visit for three weeks so uh yeah I think we have finalized rosters with these two teams which one's going to be better next season car which roster would you choose if you could pick in a vacuum to be your team's roster next year uh Michigan's roster do we want to go like position by position or give me some broad thoughts first and then we can do Which roster would you choose positions I I just think that there is a little bit more of a known to a lot of Michigan's pieces that I feel better about like I feel good about what Rody Gil is gonna be I feel good about what Vlad Golden's going to be um to be if I'm doing like the feel good about what they're going to be like I there's there's a lot of project there's a lot more projecting going on I think with Michigan State than players on Michigan's roster I think that's a fair interpretation of things um what I would add to this or just say is I think in general Michigan State's roster has a lot more upside than Michigan's I think Michigan's has a significantly higher floor than Michigan State's uh and I think that that floor mostly comes from the front Court like golden is good Danny wolf is playable at minimum and like Walters as a third guy that can cover for either like Michigan's going to have a front good front Court without question I don't know that any other positional group on either team we can point to and be like that's guaranteed to be good I think we can point and say that's guaranteed to be weak like Michigan State Center Spot is going to be weak Michigan's point guard spot is going to be weak so for that reason I would say Michigan has the higher floor but if Booker and fears hit then I think without question Michigan state has more upside which is probably more exciting like you could talk me into you want the upside if you're not going to be a great team no matter what you might as well take the team that could swing for the fences and be really good but I don't know it is close it's really close that's one of the parts about not getting Center that hurts even more is that like you know there's we want fears to hit right like we really want fears to be great so bad but like if Booker isn't good again our front court is going to be so so bad yeah where like we really need Booker like honestly we we need them both like obviously but just like man just a lot of pressure on those guys to take leaps yeah I agree with you there um so I have two different ways I want to do this but before we do one of those two ways uh just in general offensively is Michigan G to be good and then is Michigan State going to be good [Music] so offensively I think that Michigan state is gonna have three three real good Shooters on the floor at all times I think that a as long as Akens Fiddler and book are on the floor I think you're gonna get three good Shooters uh and there might yeah like okay so I think we three three good Shooters in that case uh if Jeremy fears doesn't do anything kind of offensively as far as putting the ball in the hole I think he can at least be a really good passer so like he can get those guys the ball get them the ball in the spot I think it'll make it a whole lot easier to get them open looks if he can be a threat offensively but I think he's a good passer um and also like maybe Trey Hollman can continue what he did last season and be a really good shooter so um I don't know I still like Michigan's offense of team I think better okay I think your guys is front court so good that's the thing I think both offenses should be good that's sort of my take like if we're if we're projecting what these teams are good at and bad at I think both are better offensively than they are defensively um wolf and golden I think works offensively very well because wolf can pass they can run a lot of high low stuff he can shoot uh and at minimum Golden's going to be a really good low post scorer I think it how good they actually are offensively comes down to the point guard spot as everything does on this team they need at minimum Trey Donaldson to continue being a really good assist to turnover guy which hopefully can happen but even if that happens then you're like relying on Rody Gil to actually take a leap and be a winning offensive engine which he hasn't been in the course of his career so but in general like I I think Michigan has enough opt options offensively between Donaldson and gaale and uh I like the Freshman KAS a lot I think Ruben Jones is playable right away Walters could probably slide down and play some three even if that's gross like they should score and Michigan State you're right I love the shooting defensively both could be bad I think I think I think Michigan could be really bad Defense defensively I mean but at least like Golden's a way better Defender than any Center we have and Danny wolf is I mean he's not good at defense um but either Xavier Booker so like I guess you call it a wash if you want they're both bad Defenders um I don't I'm not the biggest Frankie Fiddler defensive guy like I think that he he was struggled like but I think Rody Gil is a really good Defender I think that ruin Jones is a really good Defender I think Vlad is an okay Defender and I actually give Trey I think Trey Johnson's a good defender or okay Defender yeah I individually I don't have huge questions about them my issues are like I think Wolf's like a better shot blocker than golden is um probably so I that's where I'm like is golden that good of a rim protector and if wolf has to guard the perimeter he's not that's the thing yeah it's clunky and they're they're not gonna be able to guard fours at all and I think Gail's like a guy you wish was actually a really impactful Defender more than a true impactful Defender um I won't pretend I know like how good of a Defender Ruben Jones is um I think he has tools he was all league in that league but I don't know how it translates to the Big 10 so wasn't he on defense yeah that's what I'm saying but like does that jump up and be great at the Big 10 level right away or I think I think you penil is a good Defender okay okay maybe uh like what's is Fiddler passible defensively for Michigan State or no he tries okay I I don't think he's a complete negative like there's some guys I'm like oh my God they can't check a cone yeah okay Fiddler's not bad there's a there's a world where like Fiddler Booker coold ker is ker your starter or is it Cooper H which just pick one which one which one do you think plays more sorry heartburn just kick him like a mother um I Cooper probably if I'm if I'm guessing who ISO gonna play probably Cooper okay so there's a world where Fiddler Booker Cooper is like a disaster defensively though right yeah oh yeah yeah which hopefully I mean I don't know may because at least Coupe gives you something there he's definitely better than Co defensively but I I definitely worry about those three I think they need somebody on the wing or front Court to just be playable that isn't a liability defensively you know and somehow figure out a way to get Xavier Booker in the right spot yeah yeah I still part of me thinks Booker would still be better defensively at the five than the four um just because I think it's easier to just focus on shot blocking yeah I agree with that actually know okay so the two ways I want to go to this I think uh first off this is weird were both being like harsh to our own teams didn't really expect that uh the way the other thing that I just want to make clear I think this is an interesting conversation because I think these two are very similar in caliber as rosters like I think you'll probably see Michigan State picked ahead of Michigan in a lot of spots which I think is fair because of the continuity and because of Tomo like Michigan state has been a much healthier program than Michigan they deserve to be expected to be a tournament team in a way that Michigan doesn't but I think I think the caliber of The rosters is really really similar and it's fair to like do this exercise um so I want to do position by position and then I want you and I to both make a list of our top 10 players on the teams and just go down those 10 so first let's do position by position we can be quick on this uh point guard and let's include backups on this so Michigan state has Jeremy fears Michigan has Trey Donaldson uh are you like do you count hollan as the back up point I think Hollman is going to be the backup Point yeah I was thinking about this the other day in the disaster world where Jeremy Fierce just like never becomes himself again what does Michigan State do aren't they like completely screwed if fears isn't great Trey Hollman and [ __ ] if it's if it's Panic complete panic mode like maybe let Jay nak do some one okay because there like there is not a true backup Point here it would just okay yeah is like really not even like a I mean he is but like yeah it really is just Hollman okay and Michigan's I guess would be Trey Donaldson with either Lorenzo Cas and the Freshman who I really like or I guess fat fat which I I hope fat fat doesn't play a minute um but at least they got multiple bodies which which of those groups are you taking fears with Hollman backup or Donaldson with KAS fat fat Guards backup again it's I think it's high floor versus high ceiling I'm gonna I'm gonna take I'm gonna take michingan States but it's more but it's it's carried a lot by Trey hman like I think that Trey hman I think Trey hallman's floor and Donaldson's floor is kind of similar so maybe it's just like a Cas in verse fear situation where like which one of those guys comes to play right away I guess s sort of um it's a lot of projecting with Jeremy FS for me for sure but I also think that Jeremy fers has like a Floor season his Floor season to me looks like kind of what Trey Donson did at Auburn yeah fears if fears never gets hurt if he never gets shot I think this is Michigan State without question because you're you're projecting fears to be way better than any of these other players if he never released that video of him dunking this is very easy too it didn't look good man and by the way he deleted it after good but that ah there's a lot of like I mean people should be excited to see him do basketball things again but it didn't look like a guy who's like ready to start a point guard to me yeah no he's he's definitely got a long way to go yeah uh I I'll take Michigan State's guards with you for the record uh and I agree it's hollan as the reason if hollan is your backup cup there's a world where Hollowman is better than Michigan starting point guard next year this we're just doing point guards for the first one right yeah so point to Michigan State they win point guard uh I I do want to say though as likely as it is that both fears and Hollman are like the best two players from this entire group which is very possible I also think there's a chance that KAS is just the best player here and I know I sound crazy on that but like I think there's a chance that kid that is that good I really do his film was nice I will say that yeah I I might be completely wrong he might not even be in the rotation and I'm taking Michigan State's back court but I just like G to my head which guard out of all of these fiveo guards has the highest ceiling in their career in a four-year career in college I'm I'll put my weight behind case uh to shooting guard so one point Michigan State right now the shooting guard spot is Jaden aens with once again Hollman backing him up uh yeah or are we throwing Kurt tang in there I do we want to be able to use players or no probably not probably not so I would do Akens kurang Akens kurang backup I really like kurang for the record um you also could do Akens Jace Richardson as a backup and then save cangas Fiddler backup that's what I would do strategically if I'm you but yeah let me do that okay uh so you have Akens who we know is good with Jace Richardson as the backup I think Michigan's 2 is Rody Gale and I think Michigan backup to trying to think if there even is a backup to right now you can't you can't use Ruben Jones right because well namari Bernett oh yeah namari Bernett is the backup too yeah nari Bernett oh I go I'll go first on this one I I think you have to give it to Michigan because I think it Akens could be the best player here he could be like option number one looks totally different I think last year Gail was better than aens and I think namari Bernett is definitely a more playable guy than Jace Richardson yeah I agree with you yeah I I got no push back on that so one point Michigan State onepoint Michigan to small forward uh yours would be Frankie fidler with Kurt Tang backup Michigan would be Ruben Jones with no backup probably da Howard Forwards yeah some some guy you hope never plays as a backup oh okay because I think so highly of Kurt tang and also like I don't are we can I throw G Norman in this or yeah you can go three guys yeah okay I I I think with the I think fidler is gonna be at worse serviceable slash like borderline good uh at minimum I think he'll knock down shots um I think you have some continuity as well I think Ruben Jones excuse me sorry Justin Pippen the back up here Ruben Jones with Justin Pitman okay and I know you're high on Justin pipman I molest high on him more so than people have told me things to be high on Pippen and I I'm not saying I trust him or not but uh I mean I'll I'll dox him on this Kevin Sweeney texted me after the pickup and was like dude's a total stud like he's gonna play I do trust I I do trust the balln of Sweeney so that that carries some weight uh for me um okay that makes things a little bit closer then because I was going to play the I feel like we both know what Fiddler and Ruben Jones are kind of going to be you know what I'm saying and then after that it's like you think Justin Pippen's gonna do something we think Caine's gonna do something um we're not doing ties right we're not doing ties I feel like this one will just go back and forth then I mean I'll I'll go my stance I think this is the easiest one for me to pick thus far I'm taking Michigan State's group uh I think I think Fiddler me for a little pivot there so I I get people are high on Justin Pippen I don't expect a ton but I I like him as a prospect Ruben Jones is good I am way lower on Ruben Jones than most Michigan people are like I I've been told Dusty May thinks this dude's a guaranteed starter like they he he prioritized Ruben Jones early in the cycle was like this is my starter with Rod Gale uh I don't see it that way at all from the tape I've seen I think he's fine I think he's like a namari Barnett berett alternative but better defensively so I to me I like Fiddler scoring upside and I think Kurt Tang might be the most talented player of this entire group I've alluded to it I think there's a chance Tang is just better than Frankie fidler um we got to see like if if you dropped Kurt Tang on Omaha last year and had him play Frankie fidler's role I think there's a world where he scored 25 points a game the kids kids a bucket yeah he's definitely a bucket I like him a lot also there's a world where kurang is like you know if the point guard situation is a total wash like maybe Akens one kurang two Fiddler three like there's a world lot of shooting if that happens um yeah Akens needs to do a lot more if that happens but uh yeah okay Point Michigan state two points Michigan State one point Michigan I'm surprised you didn't run to take Michigan State there honestly is that some is that some fidler skepticism if you're not saying he's guaranteed better than Ruben Jones I don't feel good about anything anymore about my basketball team okay all right the power forward spot Michigan is uh Danny wolf with Sam Walters as a backup uh Michigan state is Xavier Booker with Coen Carr yeah Coen Carr forgot all about Coen Carr I mean that two very prestigious recruits right there I think Michigan Wolf's the lowest ranked recruit Walters is probably in the mix with like a Cohen car caliber Guy totally different game but uh I would also say wolf is pretty clearly the best player of that group right now ivy league player of the year last year yeah I I I think it's Michigan I think it has to be Michigan even if you think Michigan States ceiling is higher with Booker I don't think you could drop book in the ivy league and have him be the player of the year yeah I yeah Danny wolf is and Sam Walters I was expected to take I expected Sam Walters to take a pretty good leap this up coming year for for Bama I I like his his prospects a lot can I ask you a question would both would both Walters and wolfes start for Michigan State this year because in my mind if you had them you could start them next to Booker and you would pretty clearly do that like would one or like would both of them start or one of them either like I think if you if you have Danny wolf he starts at Center for oh yeah yeah yeah if we have Danny wolf Danny wolf starts the center if we have Walters I put Walters at the four and book at the five that's what I would do too okay all right so Point Michigan two points each and we go to Center and I think we know the answer here let's just keep pushing Michigan Vlad golden versus whatever's going on in Michigan State Flag okay yes uh do we want to do bench I mean we kind of lumped the bench and everything kind of lumped them together so I don't know but I don't if you wanted to pick like a unit do we want to do that I think they're too similar I think I I don't know it's going to be a toss up so okay there you have it positionally three points Michigan two points Michigan State now let's do quick exercise the other one rank your top 10 players for me just go go through and do this quickly I'm gonna do the same and then I want to go one by one and uh basically say who we think is better one by one positions be damned okay positions be damned one by one because I think it gets interesting this like speaks to the depth of the teams in a pretty big way I Top 10 think trying to make sure I haven't forgotten someone here I don't think I have I have I know I'm a classic forgetter oh sorry I got you why are you so damn good at this I think I have my 10 he just whipped out 10 he just whipped out 10 like it was nothing right there almost put my guy Ian burns on here that's shout out to Ian Burns by the way friend of the friend of the program we just found out most recently uh okay I'm good okay uh let's start at the top I believe Michigan's best player is Vlad golden I said Danny wolf oh no I want your Michigan State player I one for one I'm like I'm ranking my team's top 10 and I want you to rank your players top 10 I thought we were doing like regardless of Team oh okay well um I have Akens oh you meant like let's lump everybody's players together here that's what I thought you were asking for we could do that instead so what I wanted to do is you have Michigan State's top 10 I have Michigan's top 10 and then we go one versus one who wins two versus two who wins and you get a point as you go down the rosters oh we could I mean we could do that I did the lumping together and like we you just see like I think if we lump together we'll just argue it so I'd rather go head-to-head you you rank your 10 players I will rank my 10 players and then we debate which player better as we go down the list oh okay all right well Akens is my one okay Vlad golden is my one who do you think is better Vlad golden or Jay nak I think it's not a hesitation I think it's flad gold yeah like gold okay all right so that's one point Michigan uh player number two I have Danny wolf who apparently you had over FL golden yeah I had Frankie fidler I think that's Point wolf if if you had wolf number one on your combined list I would assume you agree with that yeah I guess I will okay to number three uh I have Rody Gale I hate this exercise well that's my I think it's pretty clear Michigan's going to win the top three and then State might win the next seven yeah um I got book three You could argue Booker upside over Rody Gale I think um but I think we also argued Rody Gale is better than Jaden Akens a little bit ago and Akens was your number one so I would I would still give it to Gail I don't like this exercise well it's it's telling of the teams because Michigan's really topheavy and I think Michigan State's balanced um are you giving the point to Gail over book though yeah I will okay so mig's Up 3 0 the top three for Michigan we like a lot my fourth best player on Michigan is Sam Walters you have him as the fourth huh I think he's the most playable guy on the team he just might not play because the front courts that loaded but like he's the he's the upside guy I think he's the fourth best player right now okay I think my fourth guy would be probably it probably be fierce I'mma give you the I would take fears over Walters would you you wouldn't I would I'm I'm surprised you are so easily no I would I would take fears over Walters I mean he needs to be healthy but if we're presuming a healthy Jeremy fears I would take him over Walters okay okay so three to one uh my fifth best player is Ruben Jones I Trey Hollman I'm taking Trey Hollman without question right and I Michigan people are gonna hate me for that because I think there is an argument like Ruben Jones was all defense in his conference maybe maybe Trey hman wouldn't do that in the American Ruben Jones did have better scoring numbers but like if you were just asking me who do I want on my team I'm taking Trey hman over Ruben Jones that's crazy to me but I respect you are you taking Reuben yeah I'm taking Ruben do we want to call that a draw then I I think it would be the same case to me my my Michigan State fan base would do the same thing they're doing with you like that Michigan is doing with you they be like you're crazy for doing that let's let's call it a draw then we're just both skeptical of our guys so it's three we each get a half a points so three and a half Michigan one and a half Michigan State uh the the sixth best player on my team is Trey Donaldson I got Kurt Tang oh it's a tough one because I I love Tang's upside more by far but also Donaldson was a sec starter I'll I'll I'm I'm I'm gonna trust my gut I'm taking kurang I'm with you okay so three and a half to two and a half my seventh best player is namari Bernett pretty good seventh player to be honest it's not horrible I I have Coen car at seven I think namari is better than Coen and I like Cohen's upside but also like Cohen's not even projected to play a ton you know like yeah you feel icky about that no I actually feel good about picking I it's just you we we haven't seen any we haven't seen Coen car I think play in his position I don't know where he's going to play with this season like if we're still gonna do this play him at three dance I I I think I rather have no more okay I'm with you um so four and a half for Michigan to two and a half for Michigan State one more full point for Michigan and they win I believe the eighth best player on Michigan is the Freshman Lorenzo Cas you know Michigan State could have really used some other guys here um I think the eighth best player on Michigan state is uh I'm gonna go with my guut I think it's Norman and I think I would take Norman over Lorenzo KAS next year I think I I think I would too okay and but I'm super high on KAS but I even I can set that aside and say it's probably gonna be Norman Norman will play more too um okay so that's four and a half to three and a half getting close I think the ninth best player on Michigan is Justin Pippen I think the ninth best player on Michigan state is kler Sweeney would fight me for picking Coler but I also I'm not expecting [ __ ] from Pippen so I'm gonna say kler I think ker is the right pick for next season I think Pippen is gonna end up being I could see pipman taking like the Kobe buffkin path is there is also a world where p is just like obviously more talented than kler though but like but I'm I'm content to take kler okay okay so we are we're four and a half to four and a half into the 10th guy here between these two rosters and I'm assuming you're gonna say Carson Cooper no no no I okay but the 10th best player on Michigan is will cheddar I got Nick Sanders oh my God if you would have just picked Carson Cooper you probably would have won this exercise no I'm I'm sorry I was just trying to get a ride I have Coupe at 10 you could also pick jaay Richardson I got I got Koop 10 okay so this is the moment we've all been waiting for Carson Cooper versus will cheddar to decide who's better Michigan or Michigan State so literally that's an easy pick who cheddar I think Cooper's way better defensively is he if you pick cheddar I'll pick Cooper and then it's a dead tie five5 I can't believe you're picking poop I I hope will chatter never plays another minute for my basketball team okay also I just name my 10th player that's my starting player too by the way like the player you named at 10 is not gonna my nine and 10 might start so what we've learned from this exercise for the second consecutive year running is I'm disgusted by both of our teams yeah man why did they do this to us man uh okay there you have it we call that a tie though so it's a draw Michigan wins by positions and it's 55 based on caliber yay yay yay