TV7 Europa Stands - Europe’s leaders must recognize their peoples deep-rooted concerns - 01.09.2024

European nations are faced with countless threats and challenges from Russia's continued efforts to conquer Ukraine through floods of illegal migration threatening the future of indigenous faiths and cultures all the way to Rising debt and growing projections of economic hardships good evening I'm Jonathan Hassen and this is the 23rd edition of TV 7's Europa stands joining us to dissect Europe's state of internal and Foreign Affairs are Mr teimos formerly the foreign minister and Deputy Prime Minister of our host country here in Finland it's good to have you here Teemo thank you thank you very much and uh another veteran Diplomat of course Mr or Professor milovat who formerly also served as the foreign minister of Croatia it's a pleasure having you thank you for having me well we have a long list of of issues to deliberate today and I think that it's uh a good start to focus on Europe's state of intern AAL affairs with two veteran diplomats here around the table Mr so will start with you I I think that the the security situation in Europe has gradually deteriorated and this is why the reason is of course the war in Ukraine and uh uh the the biggest risk of the situation is uh not only what happens in the front what happens between the the the the parts the fights but uh in in certain parts of Europe also in between the people and inside the political class or political parties people are getting tired of war two and a half years and and the results are not immens and and money consumed has been thus far uh significant now when uh the Autumn is coming in in all the European countries there are budgets to be created and adopted and accepted and uh there is a lot of pressure to make cuts on the public service and public consumption this all combined has created some uh suspicious what is going to happen and at the same token we don't know uh surely about the commitment of the United States they have been uh thus far uh quite helpful what comes to Ukraine but now as an election we can uh maybe anticipate one or two months a certain kind of Silence in order to guarantee this the seat in the in the in the White House and and and this has U caused restlessness but but then the big event is that Ukraine has crossed the Russian Border in ksk area and that is something which was rather unimaginable maybe one year or two years ago as a matter of fact many European countries put the red lines that you shouldn't use these weapons on the Russian side but now that has happened and uh that is also some kind of development in that crisis as well everybody knows that at some time we should create some kind of uh path to peace but nobody wants to say anything out loud not to be labeled on the wrong way because uh Ukraine needs to have good positions even if we cannot imagine about the solution uh uh which is negotiatable indeed Professor Kovach I would say that when it comes to the European Union it leaves the impression of decadence when it comes to strategy to strategy the the major European nations the biggest ones are afraid of being in charge yeah without EU with without us leadership we would not have been so engaged when it comes to Russia's aggression against Ukraine so the engagement of the US was crucial for us to get engaged so uh the major Nations Germany France less but they're afraid of being in charge it would be logical it would be natural that European countries are in charge of the security of the European continent which is not the case now when we speak about Ukraine I always opt for different perspective I would say the Ukraine Ians have fought very courageously and uh uh the biggest part of Ukraine is free so the ukrainians have already achieved that their basic 80% of the territory is under the control of the the government in Kiev zinski the president so it's a huge success so we have to think look at things differently uh the idea of the uh Czech president pav which was put forth some days ago in a Czech uh paper was quite wise he says look these 20% still under control of the Russians okay that can be tolerated for a certain time Ukraine should uh continue to fight of course but uh the rest of the territory should be with the West in a certain way I would compare it with what happened to Finland when it was uh aggressed by the Soviet Union in 1940 am I right yeah winter war was yes 39 and then continuation War yes 41 onwards yes so uh Ukraine will be a free country the question is will it be able to um get back all territories quickly I'm not sure but it's going to be free country and the member of the West and for Europe the Europe has to get out of its comfort zone we have two basic challenges when we speak of strategy of course we're afraid of being in charge which is not really something which applies to Croatia perhaps or to to to Finland or to to other countries but the biggest countries are afraid of being in church and then of course our biggest problems are migration and demography and then we we see what happens in Germany what happen happens in France all these elections the results of the elections in France in Germany in Austria in Italy now in the UK too are the result of migration and demography so we need a completely different approach we have to get out of the comfort zone is my my my my chief thesis I can carry on a little bit what do what miror said about the leadership and lack of it uh because we have had a history uh of decades that uh Germany has been a powerful engine of economy in the Europe and on the political side France have been both willing and able to create the political stuff in in Brussels and the in the corridors of Peron but now when when Germany is in a way unable to to be the engine of the of the of the Europe and at the same time France has elections month ago there is no government in France and this combined makes that Europe is in the in the not if the friezer but but in a kind of some kind of in the waiting room and UK not member of the European Union has had a big role as us in in helping Ukraine but you've been very vocal about the economic bailouts back in the day we see the Italians we see uh the the Greeks uh Spain Portugal they own yeah trillions of dollars of Euros to Germany to France all those bailouts need to be somehow uh accounted for and that is that is the big problem because uh uh the the there has been been talking about according them that the to cut the Deb rates down but but it is very unpopular thing for the government to to give a kind of uh uh reducement of of that but the fact is that if those monies has to be out of the economics like like economics like Spain and Italy it is not working and as Miro said the election results are connected with the economy in the way that it hasn't been uh uh shown for many times there has been other things and now it's about economics and immigration not about uh uh some minor issues it's about these two big factors I agree witho absolutely uh I I watched the other day an interview with a um German social scientist who's in charge of an Institute uh uh of public relations so he has been monitoring the polls for 40 years in Germany and he said one of the problems the Germans have right now is also linked to energy energy security they it was it was crazy to abandon nuclear energy yeah in that situation horrible and now what the Germans have they have the feeling of not being taken seriously by uh by the government and then linked with that of course and that also is a problem in France in Austria in Italy that um people are afraid of their privileges so you have migrants coming in very frequently without being uh chosen by the government so people come in come on the uh labor market they may perhaps not be really useful at that moment but they are accepted and they're paid for by the citizens who work and who are afraid for the Privileges and so we we need migrants in Europe that's that's the case we need migrants in Finland in Croatia nowadays in Italy in Germany why do we need migrants because we have problems with demography we don't have enough but wouldn't it be a better solution to deal with the family yes and encouraging people to bring more children definitely this is this is my my particular my particular uh standpoint but uh unfortunately right now it is not alamod it is not onog as the French would say so we need migrants right now in all our European countries basically uh the fertility rates have gone down even in Finland in France yeah so we would need 2.1 children per woman to keep this population in the European Union which not the case we are something at 1.6 1.7 so we need migrants but if we need migrants we should choose them we should be uh we should be uh free enough to say we need not Meo Meo is a nice guy he's a historian but we need we need a mathematician miror is 30 32 years old mathematician great miror is historian 50 years old no thank you you're a nice guy you can come to Croatia to to the Netherlands have a Cofe with me you you won't stay here so we have to we have to adopt a different different approach and approach people in Singapore have people in Canada have so there are countri in the world who do it that way and they avoid problems in their societies yeah I I would say that the the migration problem is one of the biggest and it's politically very sensitive and and and why it it is the case because the conservative parties have neglected that agenda and the left Wingers haven't considered that problem at all it's not a problem if a skilled worker who is uh ready to work ready to adopt the local way of life whatever his belief is if he's uh abiding the law and building the society no problem but if we are having both by both people who we don't know about who we don't what their skills are we don't know what is their affiliation to anything that creates problem and that creates bitterness and that creates racism which is one of the big problems in in the Europe and should be fight back for and and and then when we have also in in combination or in addition to it this problem we have a threat especially from the Russian side for organized hybrid operated uh uh Asylum Seekers uh leaking from the borders and this is one of the problems we will foresee that is going to be a bigger problem in the future we're seeing that as of course in Morocco we're seeing this in Alger in Libya in Egypt and of course course as you mentioned uh lucenko came out and said just couple days ago that uh from his perspective he will stimulate uh so-called refugees he adop them as but of course they're not refugees uh from Syria from Afghanistan to push them into Europe something that he vowed to to uh intensify but if I may ask you because if I'm looking at the different figures and and I'm talking now about rete figures that are recognized by uh governments their internal figures we're seeing that Spain is going to grow into a Muslim majority state within a time span of less than 15 years we're seeing the same I think in the Netherlands I was told it's roughly 10 years before the majority will be Muslim uh the same goes for uh France for Great Britain and other countries throughout the European uh continent but if I really look down and and look at all the various uh demographic projections from the days of the formation of the the legal boundaries for nation states uh 1648 uh the uh the the various treaties that were signed following the 80 years war and uh the the 30-year war in Germany uh all those different uh components indicated that the the one governing and the majority of the people controlling a state will be the ones to Define what the the religion of the state will be so in other words the moment those same people take over the the context of becoming a majority of each state including here in Finland including in Sweden which is packed with uh foreign migrants entering into the country from Islamic not backgrounds they're Muslims entering and seek to impose it on the country MH before we know it the the Christianity of Europe will become not only a secondary yeah but according to Islam it will be rooted out I I think that uh what you just said is is something what both our political class and our business class uh have not recognized or the it has been such a the kind of a topic which has been reserved to the so-called extreme right and this is why the the problem is is there everybody knows it's there but when it has been labeled that only those people who are on the outer right flank talk about I cannot mes it and and makes my hand dirdy of this and this is dangerous and this is wrong because if the the migration is not controlled the the other option is uncontrolled and then there will be a reaction from the locals and that creates uh the the the crash and and I think that we should be more open to this kind of discussion with the mainstream parties haven't they listened uh listened at all what happened in in France in elections what will happen with afd in Germany why this is happening it is mainly because of neglecting or even denying the whole thing and that is not a problem but if people and then you say about Christianity at the same time it's the same thing mainstream center right parties are so afraid of being anti woke that they define marriage in the in the way which has never been defined in the Christian Heritage a man a marriage is a institution with one man and one woman for life that is the the teaching of the church has been but if we are not telling these kind of facts or are even afraid to say it in a l to to be labeled to be bot or something like that then willingly the outter right takes this on their own agenda absolutely so these So-Cal populist parties I I I don't like the word because you have to be populist in in politics because if you're not a populist how can you attract voters on both sides so you have to be populist because you have to talk to the people of course so you you if you want to be a successful politician you are condemned to be a populist so I would call them different these people these parties profit from the um uh unwillingness of the old parties to understand the fears of the people people are afraid for their future for their security now we we speaking about zing what happened in Germany with this attack this yes so in Eastern Germany 60% of the people are afraid for their security and in Germany altogether it's 50% can you imagine they're afraid they do not feel secure in their own country so and now what happens I'm a Croatian not a German but I follow what is going on there the government discusses the possibility of uh uh of changing the law when it comes to the length of the knives can you imagine it's completely crazy they should control the the the immigration processes and not discuss length the length of knives which is crazy so they they're not ready to confront reality and if they continue to behave that in in in that manner they will have huge huge problems the country will implode in in in the end because I always say these new parties which people call populist parties they're very good for making a some diagn giving you some kind of U picture of what is going on in the country use those parties to understand what the problem is so there are some kind of Diagnostics parties yeah so we should use them to understand where we make problems when it comes to the so-called old parties on the right which are afraid what which are afraid of saying things directly this all these voke things you're you you're you're supposed to say he or she or it I mean doesn't make sense it is not natural so we should go we we should go natural again let's divert our attention to another uh point this last July we had the anniversary 75 years to Nato uh the Moto of NATO of course stronger together nevertheless when together is not necessarily United uh in all uh of the the sense of that word uh to what degree is NATO really capable to withstand the challenges ahead uh particularly in the face of uh the continued Russian aggression in the face of uh the the challenges that we're seeing for instance in the Red Sea uh challenging the the freedom of navigation not only to the Middle East and Egypt that ultimately may bring about also the flooding of additional migration uh from that uh North African country into Europe but also to Continental Europe and particularly the number one country to lose from the majority of the volumes coming from that uh region happens to be Germany so what what can be done in order to confront those challenges and to what degree is NATO in essence capable of the withstanding let alone sh let's not forget that in two months again we're going back to the elections in the United States which raises many other questions yeah I I think if we start about the positives and 75 years it's a good mile pole in in in in in some sense and uh NATO is still organization which is um which is uh vital in that sense or it is it is Vitality because the countries like Sweden and Finland were ready and willing to join so that tells that something has been done the right way it has uh it has a kind of the power to to pull new members in so that is the good side and and then of course uh when it is when it has enlarged in the last two decades quite a lot former socialist countries and and so forth Baltic countries every every everything and we know the Rivalry for example in the meos neighborhood in the Balkans it's either from our side or then they are on Turkish Turkish spear or Russian spear or or so so that are the positives but then how coherent we are inside and that is one one perception is money and this is what Mr Trump said that everybody should pay at least 2% and even more and and I I have noticed that the Democrats has adopted this line as well and I think uh if the Trump is reelected those countries who are below 2% will have have a tough time times in NATO tables as well but the the expenditure what we will need in the future what comes uh to to the challenges what you said outside Europe or borders like the maritime safety like the the connections from the south sa sea to our uh factories here it's a huge huge Challenge and and and us will have a main rivalry between China and if we are also uh the the allies of United States it's not only our Viewpoint that us should come to Europe to help us it is also that we will be solidarity connected with us with his challenges also in the Middle East and also in the South chinae it's a two-way street yeah yes 75 years of NATO NATO serious organization officient organization peace in Western Europe in Europe today if we uh do not now count what is going on uh in Ukraine and Russia's uh invasion of Ukraine but uh the NATO countries uh are safe but um NATO so our friends in Finland and Sweden they didn't join join NATO because of Germany of Italy no Spain they joined NATO because of the us we joined NATO because of the US and George Bush came to Croatia and said 2008 we will protect you no one no one uh no one uh will attack you so the US are the country in NATO and the US theoretically The Americans can project their forces anywhere in the world without NATO Iraq without NATO well a coalition with the majority yes but they they have the means to do it on their own right so the question is where are we in in in in in this in this in this Alliance so we need the Americans to stay together so we are condemned to have the Americans but we we should do much more because we have to understand and this is when I'm this is why I criticize the leaders and and in the major Nations they're afraid of being in charge because the Americans do not have Europe as a priority anymore the priority today is the Indo Pacific region it has been the priority since Obama so Indo Pacific is number one Europe is number two and the Middle East number three then comes the rest I mean this is reality so uh so what we have to do we have to do much more in Europe to be in charge to help the Americans in Europe and this is why the Americans have the tendency to have us engaged when Schulz was in Germany uh in in the US and went to see Biden what did Biden say you have to take over he said the same to mrcon it's your job we will help you but you have to pay for it it's a logical approach and Trump was right I said Trump was a huge possibility for us to understand that we have to change things because the new president it may be trump it may be someone else it may be house they will continue to have this focus on the Pacific IND the Pacific region so we have to do much more and we have to fight against our own decadence so so we have to we have to get out of this uh comfort zone because otherwise we'll be I wouldn't say we will perish but we will become strategically unimportant well you know when I really look at the big picture I still remember that meeting between Trump and Angela am where the finance minister at the time Olaf Schultz was the one who blocked Miracle's bids to try and reach that 2% and potentially even cross that so the Trump team does remember yeah what the Germans did at the time and how they blocked these efforts to to ro become once again robust in in sharing the load uh so to speak but uh one of the key issues in the United States right now is the fact that they're not able to recruit all of the uh uh people necessary to fill the ranks with a number of uh very significant vessels uh becoming rent Ed uh incapacitated or just will be ported until they have enough people to fill them up again support vessels that are vital for various missions long-term missions wouldn't it be thinking outside of the box uh an interesting possibility for European nations to Grant American uh uh the American Military for ukom or other uh sectors uh of uh responsibility uh Manpower in order to man their vessels and potentially rebuff that powerful American machine in order to once again project the necessary power around the world I I think that uh we we should think about outside the box and and when we are so-called veterans we are not in the office right now we can do it and we should do it and this is what the think tanks should do create the kind of alternative Roots uh uh to go on because we need we see the challenges shortage of capable uh uh recruits so what would be the so-called obstacle that we couldn't operate internationally uh under NATO flag in in the operatives if the both side benefit from it and and like like we see we we have three big areas where a conflict is ongoing or is accumulating it is Ukraine and Russia and it is Middle East between Palestinians and Israel and outside the Palestinian it's Iran Russia and China and then it is China and uh and Taiwan these are all interconnected and we cannot slice that Europe Europe we are only taking care of Ukraine we have to know on which side we are in the Middle East and what side we are in the South Side sea and this may be politically tough to the home audience to say it but without accepting the facts we wouldn't be able to go further and what would we then say if the Americans would say that we would support you but we don't have Supply what amazes me about Finland is that even though it's only 5.6 million yeah residents yeah it's the third largest military in all of NATO yeah and also is willing to sacrifice in the same fashion that turkey is willing and the United States of course is semi- willing not under the current Administration but nonetheless Professor Kovach when when we were looking at the the broader picture uh albeit Europe is a secondary actor to the United States nonetheless it is faltering when we're talking about security and is more prone as we saw just recently with uh Miss vland coming to Egypt to pay Abdul fat c 7 something billion euros in order to ensure that uh the economy there will not fall and uh as a consequence qu see Millions uh in that country of 1.5 million uh residents flooding into Europe we see uh hasah the Iranian proxy in Lebanon threaten the European Union state of Cyprus the island and uh again V lion going there and promising or pledging a 1 billion Euro support package to the highly corrupt government there uh are we here in Europe expected to pay everybody off as happened also in turkey and so many other places including Libya to stay at Bay and just leave Europe alone so uh it's not because I'm Croatian and teimo is from Finland uh the problem in Europe are not the smaller Nations it's the big Nations it's the big Nations so in the but you have people in the big Nations who understand what is going on but the the the the the the the established the the the old parties uh there are people in the old parties who either do not understand what is going on or who are afraid of being in charge so we could do many nice things in Finland or in Croatia or in other smaller countries but we cannot we not we don't have the power to impose things we can take care of ourselves have own armies have our own policies we have have of course when it comes to migration should be coordinated but we need different approaches when it comes to Germany France Italy so we need a Revival of strategic thought in the bigger countries that is the basic problem in the European Union and uh if that doesn't happen we will continue to uh um to to do business like this so it is we are not being taken seriously when it comes to the Middle East when it comes to Israel you know it quite well Jan do does Europe count in Israel is Europe or the European Union something the Israelis respect strategically no they only respect the Americans they do respect bilaterally Germany yes of course of course but I I I speak about stry about military so they do not count upon Germany or France to help Israel to withstand the attacks by Hamas or by Hezbollah it is the US of course so we so we have to we have to reinvent ourselves but the the the the responsibility lies primarily upon the bigger Nations but the problem there is they flee reality they do not want to confront confront well this is something that has to that has to change but this goes back to what we spoke about with regard to migration because when we looked at France for instance the party of Marie Leen during the Parliamentary election won 32% even more than 32% the next party won less uh by 10 points as well as the third party who lost by 13 points nevertheless those two other parties took over the country yeah that's right and they have the bigger sh share of the the seats and that is because the whole election system in France has been built or created or recruited or or reshaped by by by by the threat of uh National front or what his name is nowadays and yeah so so and there there is a uh they posed me a question which first I think that is this some kind of a choke or not and they said that Timo what is the second spoken language in Marseilles and I was thinking and and didn't uh have time to answer and they said it's France because the first one is Arabic absolutely when you walk in Paris today I walk around I speak with shop owners I only speak Arabic with them and it helps uh to walk around they give you a lot more respect than if you would speak French but let's say let's take the example of migration policy so N9 years ago teimo was active that part at that time in government he was in government so yeah N9 years ago migration crisis very bad one we the small Nations said clearly let's be very prudent our friends in Germany Mr Merkel was under pressure basically she she had two options either close Clos the borders or open the borders she opted for opening the borders and it was willom culture welcome culture it was great it was sexy to accept all all these refugees and it was forbidden to say forbiding Inver commment to say it is a bad move yeah people said it openly at that time courts or Orban other ministers and prime ministers they were banned in public they were shunned today it's completely different no one will say that guy or that guy he was right but the policy the policies in those countries have changed because now you can see that the policy was a bad policy and we should have adopted different policy we're we're talking much about uh this Clash of civilization of course that is going to uh impact Europe quite heftily and is already imp impacting Europe and we're seeing that in front of our eyes this is not new and there are historic context to this from the the days of old where we saw the marenian dynasty protect Europe from the invasions uh that uh befell on Andalusia but if we really look at uh the current concrete issues is this state driven is this stimulated we spoke about uh Bell Russia we spoke about Russia plenty of times here on the show about it trying to push additional migrations but the they're also using this for their intelligence purposes as we see now in Germany the Islamic Republic of Iran utilizing the Islamic centers in Hamburg and elsewhere which were then subsequently banned throughout Germany and now uh in response also to the decision by the Islamic Republic and the Ayatollah regime to block all of the G Institutes of Germany in Iran we're seeing Germany also react to that by starting to deport all kind of people that are affiliated to this Islamic organizations which were found to be used by the Iranians as intelligence and uh utilizing those centers also against dissidents from Iran who are living in Germany I suppose that intelligence Services know quite well what is going on and uh if you know what is going on the government should have policies to uh ban such occurrences so it's very easy but for that you need courage of course it is not easy it is not easy but you need strong leadership and you need courage we have a problem of leadership in many countries leadership but people want leadership that's why they vote for for for for parties like IFD because they promise leadership they want leadership don't people who act an alternative for D yeah that's right alternative and yeah and I I I think that uh what people really would respect that somebody would speak to them in plain English so to say so to say that these are the problems this is our medicine take it or leave it and I think that kind of cruel honesty would be a trick not promising everything and to everybody and be nice and if we are having this we will have warm warm drink to everybody and everybody will have a good time people know that now we have tough times they are wiser than the politicians are anticipating true that they are because they are living their lives one issue that we can once again revent this they're looking for leadership they're looking for Alternatives but nonetheless when we're looking at hilders for instance in the Netherlands the f f he sat here on the show he articulated what he uh expects to see for the Netherlands and when he came to the Moment of Truth the majority of the Dutch public voted for him of course within a uh yeah the fact that he didn't get a majority government he had to rely on additional parties that didn't want to see him enter into power and therefore they found a solution of establishing a technocratic government that doesn't really believe in what he does or what he says yeah so according to the polls he's still in an upward trajectory but do the public have enough patience to see that process through because the Judicial Systems in Europe do not allow people to make real change this is this is the problem which which I would say that was a a big part of the brexit process when the people said uh uh exit brexit the The Establishment in UK in both parties labor and the conservatives and the civil servants make their utmost best not to deliver but it was delivered at the at at the end now if they could turn this to the possibility it could take five to 10 years and now they have a majority government of starma they have no excuse to make changes but the big thing is that the establishment combined with the business establishment political establishment and and the civil servants they don't want to anything to be changed and and that is why then we have two options either people will be felt betrayed and the the the the so-called challenging parties would collapse because people are AF afraid that this wasn't the lead this led to nothing all the other option is what Marine Leen has done it has had a gradual growth of every election and now they almost got there but now everybody knows there is no government the presidential elections are approaching uh and this they haven't played that card yet so there are there are two possibilities Leen diving to 10% or rising to 40% and I think the 40 is more likely well with regard to Britain there is one advantage that the Brits have compared to the pass the post they do not have a constitution yes yeah yes and all the professors to to say that you cannot do anything right basically the problem is that when there are many liberal people or left left liberals who uh oppose uh the necessity to change things but these people have to understand that the liberal Society the the liberal democratic system which we have in the West can only be protected if we protect our borders if our values are upheld if it's not the case anymore there will be no liberal democracy anymore so these people are the basic problem and they even if they're not in power they dominate with their ideas the society so basically they have achieved a Domin a domination in our societies even if they're not in power so that's why for instance in German Mrs mer Mr merch he has problems he has sometimes to play on the left because of his fear to be accused to be too much on the right but now the story with zingan what happened is zingan he said clearly no no migrants anymore from Syria and Afghanistan it's over because there will be elections on Sunday in two German uh uh States in uh in Saxony and Thia and if he doesn't act like that he may have a better result for his party s in those two states and and and until now he did not he has not wanted to speak openly about migration problems and when he did it he was attacked by the Press so uh but if you want to if you want to have your voters and if you want to change things you have to speak what teimo said openly about the problems people feel as problems sometimes people maybe maybe may have a false uh perception of what is going on but still even then you have to understand them you have to talk to them you must never you must never ignore people's feelings that's a big problem yeah and and uh what happened in Denmark that was very striking a few years ago the center right government didn't U wasn't capable of dealing with the migration crisis or so to say immigration problems but then came the Social Democratic woman yes as a prime minister whose policies were much more tougher and she delivered the line what people wanted and that was something uh which has unheard of before and nobody said that meta fredericksen is a racist but if you do it on the rank FL right flank the same kind of policies you are bigot racist fascist or whatever true we're drawing near to the end of the program and I'd like to uh still give some uh uh thought to the challenges arising in the Middle East obviously the Islamic Republic of Iran continues uh to export um tear throughout the region but not only throughout the region also throughout Europe and therefore when we're talking about this Rogue regime inan what should European nations do I already spoke of course about Germany that is expelling the Deputy of the so-called supreme leader aah Al in Germany uh giving him a notice just a couple of days ago of 11 days to get out of the country uh pledging also to deport additional people from Germany related to uh the rgc and and uh this Islamic Republic in general is there something to to push further against those uh radicals and tan particularly also on the nuclear file I I think so that uh uh Europe must uh uh were uh very close connections with the US and as well Israel if we if we took the the the raw Truth uh on the on the palm of of the hand like it or not Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East like it or not it delivers the job for us with the maritime security at the time and and Israel of course doesn't want to be labeled or even um said to be a proxy of the West they are independent and proud country but who is taking care of our Maritime security our supply change is Israel and we must have a look it's not only Palestinians Gaza West Bank or hisbah and Hamas it's IR which is uh trying to be the driving force for for for Islam and Israel has had a very successful policy with us uh connecting with Saudi Arabia Bahrain Egypt uh connections with solar and all kind of energy solutions with India and even the Cyprus and that must be cut down that kind of uh uh uh the the cooperation and this is the big picture and everybody is hurt out of the sufferings of the people in in Gaza it's it's not that but what was the trigger for this was a Hamas brutal attack murdering 1,400 people and and if we don't get the biger picture and just watching Gaza or hisbah we won't won't be able to to Define any kind of solution to this problem I agree with with Teo what you said and I would also point to the broader picture so Iran alone could not act like this Iran alone never so Iran has allies for instance Russia for instance China North Korea and other countries which are less powerful but all these countries have something in common and the idea is to weaken the West they do not want the West to be the dominant power in the world anymore that's it so what we have today we have a a world order which is based upon uh um basically upon the ideas of the US after World War II and we as Europeans we are part of the West partners of the us and we stick to that World Order and the countries I mentioned Iran Russia China they feel powerful enough to provoke uh uh to question the uh the dominance of the West this is something even those between us who may be critical of certain policies of certain Western countries they should never forget that it's about a fight between these countries and the west and in the end they need that we have to uh work on the feeling on the feelings of solidarity among the West our civilization is at stake is in danger they they do not want our civilization to be strong anymore that's the idea well uh one point that I I do need to highlight because I I think this is very important and I know that there are many European practitioners from different countries watching uh is the fact that on October of 2025 we're going to have uh the final date where the E3 of France Britain and Germany are able to snap back sanctions against the Islamic Republic over its nuclear proliferation this is something that is vital that needs to happen unless uh the Europeans just are going to allow the Iranians to pull through and and develop uh uh nuclear weapon capabilities something that of course will bring an end to the nonproliferation treaty and as such uh we will see a nuclear arms race not only in the Middle East where I'm sure that uh the Saudis and the Egyptians and turkey and and others will uh Rush themselves as well uh to attain those capabilities as a counter to the Iranian aspirations but we'll also see uh European countries are already speaking about this including Germany about potentially attaining nuclear weapon capabilities including countries such as South Korea Japan of course are still very wary of uh even deliberating this issue for understood reasons nonetheless at some point it will also consider this so the nonproliferation treaty is vital in order to maintain and sustain a certain equilibrium within uh the international order something that the Iranians are seeking and very keen on disrupting because it goes in line with its uh religious beliefs 12 ver shite Islam something that of course ultimately uh they they came to to provoke a certain challenge to Western civilization at large and also particularly the state of Israel and the United States uh as an extension thereof that's how they perceive it but we are at the end of today's program and I'd like to immediately thank Mr teimos thank you very much formerly of course the foreign minister and Deputy Prime Minister of Finland and Professor mil Kovach forly the foreign minister of Croatia and I'd like to thank all of you at home as well until our next Edition from here in sinki Finland have a good [Music] evening Shalom I'm Danny Aon former Israeli ambassador to the United States former Deputy foreign minister and member of knesset today I'm very privileged to be hosting TV 7's middle EAS review and also being a panelist of the various shows of tv7 which I find the most uh enlightening most educating if you really want to understand the world the global scene as well as the regional scene of the Middle East it is worthwhile to watch tv7 [Music]