Willie Brown On Dating Kamala Harris, Giving Her A Job, Trump, & Lies Surrounding Their Relationship

[Music] uh welcome to the art of dialogue Mr Brown uh it's an honor to have you here uh congratulations um on reaching your 90th birthday um very much appreciated that you could be here today and um let's get right to it um can you share the significant moments in your journey to becoming the first African-American May of San Francisco uh what challenges did you and how did you overcome them well my tenure obviously was for eight years as mayor but in order to get to that point uh I became a member of the legislature in 1964 before that the first time trying I lost in 1962 I lost by a th000 votes for seat in the legislature it didn't bother me too much because two days after I lost I continued to ring doorbells and I would say to the people who answered to the door all over the district Filmore the Western Edition uh part of downtown San Francisco I think the person who answer to the door for having voted for me but I tell them I lost well now I didn't know whether they voted for me or not there's no way you know I could then 24 hours or 48 hours from losing tell who did or did not but I knew people would be too uh comfortable and too nice to me or anybody else than to say I didn't vote for you I don't know who you are any of those kind of things but the doorbell ringing after the election was more important as a contribution to my ultimate ascendancy to the mayorip of San Francisco and I got to tell you that it was a learning experience a humble and experience to have lost but a glorious time to have won two years later lost by thousand one by 4,000 and from that moment on I continued the journey that led me to the speakership of the legislature a very important position um some 16 years later that translated into the third most powerful seat in government in California if not the first most powerful seat outside of being governor and all of those steps led me uh to my ultimate goal mayorship of San Francisco uh some 30 plus years from the first day that I sought public office and believe me it was quite a journey do you think that you learned more from your loss than you did from when you won no no no no no no I could not have won more from my loss than when I won simply because when I won the job that I was seeking first time out I was opposed by the Democratic establishment they had a guy there already in that job and I was doing the people's work because the guy not represented the people well and I knew that he had not and so I was a well well aware of that but then I learned some things that stood me in good stead going forward but I didn't learn them from the loss I learned them from the win many uh believe you played a pivotal role in launching KLA Harris's political career how did your relationship with her influence her rise in politics and do you think her success would have been possible without your early support I can assure you the nature of her Talent would have generated somebody that had the skill set that I had to be of assistance uh to her when she sought the first job of district attorney of San Francisco and then Attorney General of State California and then US senator in California and then the ultimate job uh for her before the presidency hopefully would be the vice presidency and that came from Joe Biden all those things required lots and lots of people I don't think there are any several persons that could be identified that would be credited with having done or had such a great influence that they would have impacted her career where they could take any credit for it yes she was a person that I gave uh I think her second job to in government uh I think the job that I gave her probably was more important than the first job she was a Deputy district attorney in Alam County which is how I met her and the two jobs that she got in association with me came uh from one uh administrative person on an issue that affected the lives of people on the unemployment roles and people who had been in one manner or another not treated fairly and in an equitable fashion and she learned very well from that I think a greater ISS greater amount of knowledge than when she was a deputy district attorney and then she went on of course uh to Envision becoming the candidate for public office by working uh pursuant to one of my colleagues who worked for me and running a campaign for a person I had appointed to a job in city government that race they lost and interestingly enough it was not only kamla Harris who was part of that team but it was current mayor of San Francisco who was part of that team London breed and they were just learning how to really get elected how to really ring doorbells how really to do the things that makes you impressive in a contest with someone else for an elected position however that a pointy of mine lost and he turns out in this day and age to be now her pastor her religious leader in San Francisco Amos Brown also head of the NAACP I say all those things because there is a lot of people played a role as I said in her rise to the great level that she is now approaching and it was because in each one of those steps and stages in interacting I'm sure uh she learned more than any one single person could have ever taught her and she benefited from the exposure in the involvement with all of the people uh she was involved with and it led ultim to her becoming other vice president uh and now hopefully the president so you would basically say that it took a uh a community to raise her to the level of where she is today along with your help well it took more than that actually uh it took first Howard University uh to provide her uh with the credentials to be an educated person and you have to to be theoretically an educated person to run for public office and then she became a student at the same law school that I attended it was called haston College of Law at the time but it's a University of California's first law school located in San Francisco right next to the court system in in in the downtown area of of San Francisco and the Civic C are of San Francisco go and she graduated from that school lived in Oakland hav so she went to work over there and then we recruited her to come to San Francisco based on the talent uh that had been recognized by the people who first selected her uh in Oakland and so she really graduated all the way to the point of which uh interaction between all ambitious people most ambitious people in the world of politics uh can interact and and it was just wonderful to be able to have that kind of talent evidence itself early enough so assistant would reflect that I got to assume I didn't know her when she was at Howard University uh I didn't know her when she was at Hon's College of the law all those are steps that leads her to where she is today and that's why I say that there are so many things and so many people that are involved in the political success of almost every politician who runs for office most politicians don't want to admit that but it is clear you cannot arise to the level and the multiple levels that she has managed to achieve without an incredible collection of people who believed in her and trusted her with their vote at your 60th birthday party it was red that Clint Eastwood uh poured champagne or made a mistake and poured champagne on kamla hris what really happened at that event and what was your impression of kamla's uh social standing at that time I don't remember frankly uh that event uh because too many events and in my career uh with any specificity that I could recall uh what someone did or did not do based upon what some other politician may not have done or may did I don't recall that at all and so but based on her her social standing at that time you know as someone who was coming up rising up um dealing with you what was her social standing was she someone that could stand on her own could handle uh you know the the social settings of the people that she was coming to be around at that particular time at the time of her involvement with politics in San Francisco which is where U there was an opportunity for me uh to get to know her I must tell you that she was uh quite uh impressive uh in a wonderful way uh she really understood uh what was going on no matter who was there or what they were doing or she appeared to be and she uh was entertaining uh in conversations seemed well informed uh on everything and was funny as all hell had a great sense of humor and to have that kind of a image and that kind of involvement meant you had to be well informed which obviously mean she did more than be a lawyer and a prosecutor because that's a very limited scope of involvement in EXP exposure to things but she was able in every way to carry out her employment role to carry out her appointment role and while at the same time generate attention for joy and respect and she got that camela Harris once referred to her past relationship with you as an albatross around her neck how did that make you feel and do you think that she's distance herself from you uh for political reasons no she would uh never distant herself uh from any of her friends from any of her Associates however she does Express her opinion about circumstances that might surround her at some point and uh believe me I think that uh her description of Joe Biden today may be the same kind of description that she had of me at one time uh because I'm certain since I am a pro at the world of politics I know when Associates and friends of mine because they're on the wrong side of the issue they're not well informed they have their own agenda and they have an attitude about something that's Inon consistent with what I'm trying to Market to get vote for that would be an apple Choice when she said it I laughed so you you laughed when she said that because you knew that it was coming from probably a question that she had tooken many times but then was asked once again and they were looking for a different answer and questions that should not have been put to her but we politicians don't have an option we make ourselves available for people to comment for people to criticize for me people to praise or for me a people to question that's who you are if you run from public office you cannot be about at all times being admired at all times being supported because you do have opposition that's what you have to overcome to win and believe me you must never lose that because in the world of politics if you somehow disass surg yourself with all your enemies in the end you lose because enemies become friends in a fight with one of their enemies amazing I never thought of it that way so politicians as the saying goes usually uh choose strange bed fellows so one day an enemy might be a friend and a friend might be an enemy or the appearance thereof that is the only way if you're going to be a successful politician you have to put that page in your playbook and you have to be prepared to go back to it when it's appropriate and when you think you need to go back to it or even when your friends tell you you need to go back to it you're not going to win every argument by hoping for conversion you might hope for conversion but if you don't get it you want to win the argument anyway you appointed kamla H to influential regulation boards during your time as Speaker were those appointments based solely on her qualifications or was there another level of trust and partnership involved in that decision each time that I have made a decision in my political career of more than 50 years to appoint anybody to any job or position that I have been given the authority to so appoint I have made the decision based upon whether or not people are truly qualified to do the job if you an elected official and you want to be rejected you start appointing inconfidence because inconfidence are going to generate for you a losing report card you're not going to achieve the what you said why you should vote be voted for you're not going to be able to achieve that if you don't fill that responsibility with qualified talent beyond your individual qualified talent every appointment I've ever made has met that high standard as evidence by who some of those appointees are for an example State of California now has a governor named Gavin Nome Gavin Nome was never in the world of politics until I appointed him and the first job that I appointed him to interestingly enough was the job of regulation of Taxi caps of all things so to speak then I put him on the Board of Supervisors in San Francisco and then I talked him into running for lieutenant governor of California and then of course I supported him for the governorship which he won at each step I always thought he was the best qualified for each one of the appointments I made for him and best qualified for the job that he got by virtue of going before the voters you have to EV valuate all those things because I'm telling you your career if you're the appoint of authority is going to be severely damaged because of absence of quality performance not for anything else period so when I appointed vice president Harris uh to the two positions that she held in my tenure in my Administration they were both of the greatest quality and what them participated ultimately in the decisions that have been made about Universal coverage on the medical side because one of those Physicians evaluated the performance of medical programs and individuals who were running those programs and that I suspect was the one that was most severely impact fit on for me in my career and as a person that I was doing whatever I was doing at the time she did the job I got elected so would you say that she did a stellar job with those two appointments that you appointed her she did a fabulous job nobody ever has ever questioned her skills and ability at any position she has been fortunate enough to have whether it was an appointment by me or whether it was an elected by the people and a campaign for her that many of us supported at each stage when she had the job of doing the job she did it in such a way that she was only viewed on the positive side and ultimately to the high level of Vice President of the United States that was an appointment made by Biden the current president of United States and there has been no evidence of anything except quality as a result of that appointment and that appointment was far more Superior and significant than any appointment I made of her so clearly I was lucky to have somebody at all stages and in particular in her case become something more than what was expected when that appointment was done I'm sure that uh Biden understood what he was doing when he appointed her his running mate for the Bryce presidency he said when he stepped aside and said you should run he said I appointed you because I wanted somebody whom I thought could fill my position if need be and I'm appointing you vice president for that reason well obviously L when you appoint somebody uh to administrative responsibility for employment relations which is my first job that I appointed it to you obviously wouldn't have the skill set expected of a vice president or when you appointed someone uh to the medical operation that led to her doing good work there you don't think of it as a vice p a vice president or anything of that nature but you do think of it as a person you appointed can do the job that could only bring you pluses some critics argue that camela Harris's policies such as her anti- truancy initiative disproportionately impacted poor communities of color do you believe her career trajectory has been shaped more by her Progressive policies or by her willingness to make controversial decisions I think cell Harris has gotten to where she is today based upon doing the job better than anybody else could do that job in her capacity as a deputy district attorney or assistant district attorney in San Francisco led to her resigning from that job and taking in a second job with Louis reny who was then City attorney for the express purpose of addressing to the family needs of people with Children what she had learned as a deputy da in Prosecuting people who had been accused or committed crimes led her to believe that there had to be some serious attention given to families family structures and how they operate and who was doing what to whom and whether or not the parents are really giving the kids the best advice the business of kids not going to school fulltime not being attentive to the attention in school provided from the teachers would be inconsistent with trying to do what KLA Harris had in mind she wanted to eliminate African-Americans in particular continuously being prosecuted and she did that in that program that dealt with the whole business of School attendance as well as the anti- literacy component she had and all of the things that she was doing and she ran against the da whom she resigned from ultimately when she got the new job to deal with the family issue and she wanton it and that had to be a competitive operation that led many of her friends including me to be helpful in her Pursuit thereof and it was all reflective of her really Universal attention to family needs and children and do you think that uh her feeling that way about families as but particularly African African-American families comes from her upbringing and her understanding where she comes from I would assume that as is the case with most African-Americans who get elected to any kind of an office it comes with the wealth of experience that they've had in the system and the system that we live in in the place where we live and the former government we're involved in doesn't operate independently in objectively on every issue there are people who have to interpret what the rules and regulations are there I got people who interpret what the predent have been under those rules and regulations and if you aspire to and get a position that allows you to do something about those things all of your experiences come to bear on those decisions and in the various capacities of that she has managed to be a part of it has always been reflected of how she has made decisions and the operation has been reflective of sensitivity to families after Isaac Espinosa's tragic death camela hris faced backlash for refusing to seek the death penalty for his killer how do you view her decision and do you think it helped or hurt her political aspirations at the time at that moment the level of criticism could only mean you have made a decision that is inconsistent with what a majority of the people are looking for except there are more people that are against the death penalty than they were for the death penalty she I'm sure did not know that from any survey that she had done period I think that was a genuine soul searching conclusion reached not while she was being elected district attorney but I think it came from all of her training or exposure her family associations her mom her father everything she she had been a part of since the first part of her education at the Berkeley in the Berkeley school district and certainly as things unflower in her higher education she had been exposed to more decisions of that nature that uh you had to make as a student uh going forward in your expression she did all of that period and one thing as a politician you got to know is that there's some decisions that can be costly to your political ambition that's when you roll the dice kamla was conscious and had been for an extended period of time I suspect but just never suspected and never address by others and evaluating her I'm sure the a lot of those people that had voted for her over the other guy uh were in some cases expressing their attitude when they said that they were disappointed if they said uh in her utterance about that particular death it was a young cop who was killed uh by some individual who was out committing crimes and he was trying to stop them committing many crimes the only thing that wasn't quite timed correctly would have been charge whatever you charge and say in the charge what your views are she answered a question for somebody uh in the publication world who probably actually knew what her attitude was about this already and she would not suspect that some journalists would be trying to harm her politically by asking certain questions they're really trying to find out where she may or may not stand because that utterance was shortly after he was killed not when anybody was arrested or anybody was about to be charged and so you learn and I'm sure she learned that whatever her attitudes are about the power and the job she had has there is an appropriate time to talk about it so it basically wrong time and place is far and we all have the understand and and be clear on that uh and you I got to tell you and that sometimes comes with age and it comes with being human no question it comes with being human but she can deliver and did deliver her message it didn't harm her one iot because she got reelected district attorney and she then got elected Statewide against a republican attorney uh district attorney from Los Angeles County in which that issue was put before the voters the voters rejected him and supported her they had more respect for her job job doing in her performance on the total operation rather than the one thing that they may have disagreed with her on and that might have been the death penalty except the world of politics have come to pretty much embrace the idea of abolition of the death penalty camela Harris is often celebrated for her back on track program which redirected nonviolent drug offenders to Education and Training r than jail how involved were you in shaping her or influencing influencing that policy and what do you think of its impact well I think it is the impact has had a tremendous effect on lots of people's lives um she wrote a book where said things of that nature would be reflective of the title of that book that book was called smart on crime and it demonstrated through the learning process how you as a person who might be a perpetrator may be accused and convicted could very well become something you previously were not if you were given the opportunity to a new form of learning and a new form of living she afforded thousands of people that opportunity in all of her capacities so her attitude on crime and how best to handle it has been reflective in everything she's done all the way up to the job she currently has and so that program works so well that it was even adopted by other larger cities and cities Across America is that correct I suspect that without acknowledging in many cases that they were using what she tested tried and took the risk of political rejection for because it has turned out to be far more productive for long-term purposes the recapturing of people's respect for each other by that role and that path created in her programs and so you yourself um as a former mayor former speaker you do believe in Redemption totally I practiced law for a long time before being elected to anything and I was a criminal defense lawyer I represented people who had committed crimes I represented people that got convicted I represented people uh that clearly uh had been misguided otherwise they never would have been convicted because they never would have done some of the things that they did do and I'm just did not have the benefit of anybody thinking the way kamla Harris came to think 20 or 30 years after I had left the business of representing people who had committed crimes believe believe me in the delivery system many people in the public are hesitant uh to be supportive and vote for anybody who would be allegedly interpreted by others as soft on crime KLA Harris never allowed that concept of that belief to come anywhere near her in the decisions that she made as I observed period I don't even remember me thinking that universally there might be a way to change the system I dealt with my clients who had a problem and that needed to be represented and could afford to pay looking back how do you assess Kam H's uh political Evolution from a prosecutor in Alam County to Vice president of the United States is there anything that you think she should have done differently along the way not at all I think she has U demonstrated without any previous political experience how best to address the situation in a way that it could be resolved and subject not to have anybody lose from it many of us in the world of politics don't always think that way but she clearly did and it clearly worked for her so when the word Redemption is used I think it is sometime more applicable appropriately to people who demonstrated that they are about Redemption rather than some of the rest of us who are about Redemption but only if it benefits I don't think she thought Redemption from a benefit standpoint for her I think she think thought about and thinks about Redemption for benefit of society period so you think the job that she's done to get where she has gotten has involved a bunch of trials and tribulations that she herself has overcome as well as help other people overcome well I don't think it was I think some where she must had a better handle on um Redemption as a component because her prosecutory attitude and her prosecutory conduct uh didn't seem to be influenced heavily uh by Redemption but once the conviction had been done then the totality of her advocacy and in many cases her conduct was one of helping you the defeated uh person or the convicted person remove Yourself by the conduct recommended in programs and policies and organizations that would give you the opportunity uh to become uh as productive and as responsible or as people who have not ever been convicted of anything and I don't think at any point she thought seriously about the risk for her political ambition cuz I don't think she ever made her political ambition a factor for her in whether or not the Redemption component of her conduct had to be engaged in you mean when she was practicing law she wasn't thinking about her political Ambitions as she was sitting there not at all yeah she was giving out you know she wanted things to be different based on individuals doing them differently and she did not want people to be permanently assigned to being a criminal period She wanted to help you stop being a criminal and sometimes it's a blessing in disguise yes yeah you can't see it at that particular time when the punishment is being hanged down um there's speculation that camela Harris deliberately distanced herself uh from your political machine during her first run of for San Francisco district attorney was that a calculated move on her part and did and did it create any kind of tension between you two yeah in reality she did not distant herself because my operation was really the foundation of trying to improve the city trying to afford opportunities for people of color at every level and that's not just blacks but people of color universally and that reflected itself in the success of the operation politically that I had and her kides in the various categories that she experienced and the parti ipation of my supporters and my and the foundation of the folk uh that I had been involved when for years reflected itself frankly in the kind of good attraction she became for vote getting purposes period and she did not have to dist herself from anything or anybody except the opponent who was running against her or that she was a candidate against I.E in this case the incumbent da for an example incumbent da had not only been a person who was a supporter and a friend uh but he had been a person that helped him get his law license his mother and father walked precincts for me Etc but when it was clear after his U first term as the district attorney of the city that almost half of the steps he eff took were inconsistent with who my operation embraced so my operation embraced her candidacy without her in many cases haven't they even asked and the results were she won she defeated an encumber district attorney just as I had defeated an encumbered mayor and interesting thing about those defeats is that the uh those parties never really got together in the end when he was defeated he being the district attorney by her he was like the poster child of what ultimately became and called the Progressive Movement yet she defeated him I have never lost a race with a constituency any different than the constituency that got her elected so what do you say to people who says that Mr Willie Brown is a king maker and do you consider kamla Harris being one of your Queens as you've uh help Kings Gavin Nome and the the gentleman that you just spoke of from that perspective achieve the goals the political aspirations that they set out to achieve well I Look to help folk running for public office not only in San Francisco or in California but all over the nation period I embrace the candidacy I raise money I make speeches I show up at rallies I show up on Saturday to help ring doorbells I do calls on the telephone uh carrying the message uh so to speak and it's hard to isolate uh the specifics with reference to what folk are looking for or believed in you have to have them do that and you must be just a worker I was and is still just a worker so to speak had a lot of credit but I do get some criticism but none of that bothers me because I made my decision on whom I would support whom I would work for what dos are of ring how I would raise money because I believe that person carried the message of what the system needs period and whether they are an admirer of Mind whether they are a friend of mine if they have the qualifications and the commitment you will have me as a supporter and a worker given the impact you had on camela hz's early career do you ever feel underappreciated for your role in shaping one of the most powerful African-American women in politics today I must tell you that if I ever fall prey to the need for praise I will have done what my mother would probably get out out of her grave in a dress with what she used to do to me when I did something inconsistent with her good judgment I have never in the world of politics been about trying to get praise for me for the achievement someone else has managed to get with my help I am a great Meer I appointed more people to significant positions than almost anybody uh in California who has occupied the role of the appointed authorities except uh the governor in some cases those people have done just the opposite of what I had wanted them to do for one example when KLA Harris ran for the attorney generalship one of the persons that uh I wanted to have support from for Kamala not for me but for Kamala because I thought Kamala represented the best of the movement I had appointed that person to a very significant position public defender of San Francisco for some reason that woman didn't have the admiration that I thought she had or respect uh for KLA Harris so she supported kamla Harris's opponent the guy from La whom kamla Harris beat for the attorney generalship I'll never forget that because there was a bad judgment on my part and a misunderstanding of who that person was that's one of the few times uh that uh I've been profoundly disappointed I did not need to take any credit initially for appointing her but I did have to take the blame for with CER for her helping my enemies and her enemies and I have experienced that in other situations involving people holding office but that's one of the things you have to get accustomed to to if you're going to hold public office I had to get accustomed to tolerating that going forward even in some cases so the need and the appetite for personal praising and acknowledgement is inconsistent in what you as an appointed Authority should suspect so you had to hear something from CA when let me get this straight you had to hear something from camela you got some some feedback from camela when the lady that you appointed didn't back her when she was running uh no backed her opponent yeah she backed her opponent but you had to hear from camela in regards to her backing now your question was didn't back her she didn't have to back KLA right right but I it was unforgivable that she went for the yeah that she was against Kamala yes because Kamala represented me K represented all things we cared about and everybody I ever appointed understood that this was an appointment from a group of people that had produced really quality elected officials period including the lady I bed we thought guess you live and you learn huh you live and you learn and you get burned and you can't complain about it that's that's that's what I find interesting in you um the wisdom they say that um when uh African-American older African-Americans die it's like a library being burned to the ground as I sit here and I talk to you I feel that I just want to let you know that I just want to let you know the wisdom well I I got to tell you though that part of being uh in the world of politics and moving up there is a debt you've got to pay as you continuously move up and you have really got to be abide about expanding the base you are not the base you are a part of the base and you must continue to try to improve that base with quality and numbers period That's the pattern that comes from my mother's oldest son period and believe me I love nothing better than to see something or somebody proceed seed with the same kind of commitment for sharing their process with others so that the foundation will become one that really replicates itself and produces quality decisionmaking and quality decision makers as things unfold that's my goal period Mr Brown It's widely known that individuals with a felony cannot join the military how do you reconcile the fact that someone like Donald Trump who's been convicted of 34 felonies can still serve as commanderin-chief leading soldiers who risk their lives around the world but are held to a higher standard when it comes to having a criminal record he was put in the position by the voters to occupy the position that he had held from January of 21 till he was from from not January 21 he was out January he limited himself or we limited himself in January 21 he was put in that position as a result of the campaign that he won that allowed him to get sworn in in 2016 at that time he didn't have any criminal convictions period from the pure standpoint of criminal convictions making you not eligible for military service that's not a good idea you got to be something more than just a person who's been convicted period the Integrity of the job that you sworn to do and what you have to promise to obey and what you have to promise to implement what should be the measurement if there's something you've done in life that may have cost you some aspects of some of your freedoms there should be an Avenue by which you can be re-evaluated based on your own application for military service period so I'm not one that says ever uh nor do I believe just a pure conviction could be the basis for your not eligible to serve as a military person I do think however that I would never vote for somebody who's been convicted with 34 felonies period I don't think that there could be a way that I could laer 34 convictions with my standard of who should hold public office and believe me as part of of just some small part but is a part of why I would never touch Trump for elected bers so in in that respect or in that regard should I say um do you think Donald Trump is qualified to be president over the most powerful military in the world no no not at all being being that the the soldiers who fight cannot join or the individuals can't but yet he can have 34 felonies well I was um a great opponent in my capacity as an elect official to Donald Trump's ascendency to the presidency in 2016 I thought it was just not consistent with anything to do and he wasn't convicted at that time uh if he had been convicted I'm almost certain that he would not have been elected period And I think that's still the issue today I think anybody that gets so uh convicted but now if it was been 15 years ago when he he had gotten convicted and his conviction had to do with uh you know some form of fraud on the money side Etc maybe in the 15 years since his conviction he would be eligible for consideration and he should be given the opportunity to prove uh that he is capable of discharging and had over those 15 years discharged the kind of Standards uh that kamla Harris had on the natural uh and so he wouldn't be eligible unless he had demonst ra those standards but then all of the other things that are negatives on the Trump side would require equal attention and I would only guess that he could not meet the standards of anybody seeking public office at the presidential level where he was in command of anything having to do with the military Mr Brown are camela H's past relationships including with yourself and Montel Williams have been a subject of public discussion now that she's married to a Caucasian man do you think her marriage plays a role in how white voters perceive her does it make her appear safer more relatable especially in the context of her potential to become president no I don't think so I think that whomever she chooses to be her husband whomever she chooses to date whomever she chooses to have uh public friendships with are all factors that people uh take into consideration at any level of an office you may seek but certainly at the presidential level and it's part of the Judgment that you should be demonstrating and have demonstrated over the years of your being period And I think kamla Harris does that as well as I've ever seen anybody else do it and I for one do not believe she would should be burdened with assumptions being made by any of us with reference to her friendships her acquaintanceships uh without some connection between or doing her Duty as a deputy district attorney or doing her Duty as a senator or who doing her Duty as a president or a vice president for that matter unless there's something about those relationships that in the minds of an individual would be inconsistent with her being able to do the job no applicabilities to associations to the people and this is been a wide running uh conversation you've had a personal relationship with a a camela Harris as well as a professional relationship for the people who say that camela Harris is not black what do you say to that I would say that I'm smiling frankly and answer to the question because C Harris is as much of a black woman as I have ever been associated with or in any fashion as a matter of fact I've of wondered how can I get her not to say some of the things she would say and not to take some position that I thought was not good but I did not ever view her as being other than black never in life and I still don't view her as being other than black and by the way I don't think she views herself as being other than black I think her commitment to her mother who was Indian East Indian I think her commitment to her father who's a Jamaican I think in each of those cases people have for Goten that those are people with the same African Heritage that everybody her color my color and their color actually has at one time white folks used say in this country that you had one scent of black blood in you you were black when we were enforcing Jim Crow that is exactly how they put it and suddenly because her father is Jamaican and her mother is East Indian somehow that makes her less than black it doesn't by their standards that ought to be a a certification of her Blackness so to speak but it serves their purpose period and that is not in my opinion erasable and I think the fact that she married a person of Jewish fate doesn't make her a Jew there's a whole lot of other things that makes the combination thereof and I just wished in this political world we could get off of having to uh justify our ethnicity and our culture beyond our qualifications do you think it's more because she's running as president that this scrutiny has become so uh polarizing the question of her being black African-American do you think that I think that all started when Barack Obama became a candidate for national office I think Barack Obama when he ran for the US Senate was concerned that the people in Illinois the white people may be against him because he was black he never thought himself being anything else ethnically speaking uh at one point somebody raised a question about his ethnicity when they said that uh his mother was white and somebody quickly resented by calling attention to the fact fact that his father was an African pure African and in the color of skin not as black as Willie Brown or not as black you know as Mike Garrett the famous running back for the SC Trojans or not as black uh as naing Cole U when chances are uh Etc or blind Stevie Wonder no they didn't equate any of negatives to that but when Barack Obama was running uh they said he was black until he started running against Trump and suddenly they didn't say he wasn't black he what he said was he wasn't born in this country and he went about trying to find a way to prove that he wasn't born in this country there's so much trivia so much nonsense associated with ethnicity and with culture associations Etc that have nothing to do with your qualifications you just gave me a question because the immigration debate is something that's been strong uh they've criticized CA Harris saying that you know it's the worst border ever and to deal with it from a Homeland standpoint the fact that Donald Trump has been married to nothing but immigrant women and would then go and say as many things as he said in relation to Barack Obama not being from here uh questioning camela hs's uh being black don't you think that's a bit hypocritical in the world of Donald Trump allegations of the nature that addresses the alleged issues of his opponent from an ethnicity standpoint are always subject to his trying to figure out how to make that a problem for his electability ability if they if he's if that individual is his opponent but that's Donald Trump I don't think there should ever be any assumption assum assumption made about Donald Trump inconsistent with zero mutual respect for anything or anybody including many of his own supporters many of his own appointees many of his own Associates in any significant capacity he is just totally and completely irresponsible ill advised and hopefully uh would in some manner or another demonstrate that sufficiently so he would never be in a position to have any policy made implemented based on his uh attitude Mr Brown 2019 a trump told NBC's Chuck tdd that he ended the family separation policy at the border leaving out that it was his own Administration that had implemented it as a standard practice how do you view this kind of Lie by omission and politics and do you think it's an effective way for leaders like Trump to reshape narratives in their favor I think Trump never ever really thinks about anything except something that can generate an immediate response from the voters without any accuracy of what he's doing without any clear exhaustive thought process without any exposure to any of his Associates to see whether or not any of this makes any sense Donald Trump is without any commitment to Quality thinking and that is demonstrated by most of his utterances and simultaneously about his conduct he does not have the ability to recall what he said a half an hour ago before he said it versus when he said it versus whether or not there's any truth to it whether or not there's any reality associated with it whether or not it serves any universal purpose whether or not it serves uh any nature of good will he is a true person who is committed to Simply generating positive reactions from people for him what our refence s flects even the person that he is trying to convince or for anybody else he's the highest level of irresponsible utterances in public life that I've ever heard from anybody uh he misrepresents and lies consistently doesn't even consider them lies doesn't even consider that misrepresentation he's just amazing I don't know any other politician who's been able to uh be competitive and get away with that conduct period Mr Brown despite verifiable evidence that he lost in 2020 Trump continues to claim he won leading to widespread belief of this false narrative among millions of Americans how dangerous do you think this kind of deception to democracy is and how do you believe the current state of politics should deal with such lies for openness I think Trump's line has cost a multiplicity of lives in America already I think his constant uh utterances to his followers through the social media process and through the rally process where he lamb blast the nation in the process of conducting Democratic elections that are not Serv as in his purpose in any fashion he is really dangerous and he's gotten so bold as to be able to say that he only loses elections that are crooked he does not believe he says that there would be an occasion when his candidacy would be rejected period no matter who was on the other side that's really warped and that's really dangerous uh frankly for the system because it means that there's no such thing as quality Democratic elections without responding to his personal need to have him be the person so elected and that's scary because he adds to that he intends to reward anybody who is part of what he considers to be the people who voted for him and anybody who voted for the other side he apparently thinks should be prosecuted if identified he in in the January 6 2021 demonstrations at the capital they turned into executions for four or five police officers and serious injuries for multi other persons the only injured parties were the people that he claims were his supporters and he claims they were patriots and that all these other people who were harmed in any fashion including the sworn police officers the capital police Corps were criminal enemies and they deserve whatever they got that attitude being on display for any person seeking public office in this democracy could lead only to the revolution that he hopes would install him as the new king period throughout his presidency Trump repeatedly promised major plans like his health care reform that were always coming in two weeks but never materialized do you think this kind of huster ism constantly selling promises without delivering has a lasting impact on public trust and political leaders how do you think it compares to more traditional political strategies the whole business of making promises you don't intend to keep is a sin of the worst order because it means you lied to try to be persuasive in your pursuit of the transfer of power to you if you don't already have power power or for maintenance of power to you if you already have power it is just amazing frankly how many of us in this democracy that don't see that as being a permanent disability for any person with that attitude to ever be allowed successfully to become in charge of anything because it's inconsistent with the founding fathers it's inconsistent with the Constitution it can only lead to something worse than anything we've experienced including slavery absolutely absolutely camela HST once mentioned that she washed collar greens in the the bathtub while preparing for a large Christmas party some critics have argued that this story pandas to cultural stereotypes aimed at African-American voters have you ever tasted kamla Harris's K greens no and what do you think about this story that she told uh in regards to her preparing collar greens in the bathtub and do you think that panders to African-American voters I think that um colard greens are one of the choices of vegetables that I've eaten all of my life from the time that I was ever invited to the kitchen table one of the vegetables was collard greens and collard greens were grown in the backyard the garden and people call it but for me it was was part of our growing just like we raised our chickens we raised our hogs for our meat um all those things are part of the Heritage uh from food standpoint of people of color so reference to color grains is clearly an indication of your food of choice based on your ethnicity in many cases on the other hand when you think about the Japanese food Sushi you know that you dealing with the issue of the kind of food that's associated with being a Japanese you know frankly that uh in the world of those who said they're Italian and so suddenly uh when they start eating an a a great amount of uh food that's associated noodles and things of that nature pasta then you suddenly discover wait a minute the Chinese didn't call it pasta they called it something else and it wasn't it was the same kind of food but was called so the food labels have generally always come from some people who eat that kind of food on a preferential basis and have for a long time when you say Irish potatoes people now know we're talking about the potatoes that the Irish crew as part of substantive food on their table tables with regularity so yes Greens collor Greens relates to black people period and you're not trying to do anything other than let folk know you know how to cook food that's traditionally provided for black people thank you I remember my grandmother uh actually washing the collar greens in the kitchen zinc you got to wash them you got to get get whatever dirt was on them because you grew them usually or you knew somebody that grew them sell them could you ever find those in the grocery storees unless they know that black people shop there because you don't really you know it's amazing how the food identifies in many cases part of your ethnic Heritage but on many occasions somebody is trying to make it appear as if there's something negative about eating collard greens well I disagree with them I do too in 1994 there were claims that you bypass other Democrats to appoint cameela Harris to the California medical assistance commission a position with the annual salary of over $70,000 allegedly due to your your personal relationship with her how do you respond to these criticisms and do you believe personal relationships should ever play a role in political appointments I think knowledge of individuals play the role and whom you select if you have the appointed power because you've got to make sure that there is quality being exercised by you when you make the appointments and then quality being exercised by the appointee when they perform their duties you do your own search and under no circumstances should you disqualify somebody because you know them because you love them because they are a part of your team because they have earned participation in your operating your elected position because you want the best quality and if you ignore the best quality to try to comply with something that makes no sense at all in making someone a disabled individual for appointment it's just not right you're not going to get there I recall in my early years when somebody said to John F Kennedy the president of these United States you appointed your brother attorney general the pay of the Attorney General was what whatever it was at that time the duties was at that time he responded by saying yes I did and I did that because my mother was not a lawyer in other words I would have app my mother but she wasn't a lawyer so I pointed the best next thing that I know about was my brother there is no justification for the disqualifications of individuals who may be uh related to or connected with you in any fashion only thing that should make them not available to serve if all the other qualifications are there clearly it should be they only selected for that reason you have no way of ever knowing whether that that that was the only reason if they have all the other qualifications and that's the reason for the question would you say that based on kamla Harris's after being under your tenure would you say based on her uh progress and what she's become that you did make the right choice when you made those choices I am so pleased that I actually can talk about the people that I have appointed and where they are in the delivery system and I do that every day of my life when called upon to say how did you get where you are I refer to the people who helped me get there and in particular the ones who accepted appointments from me to keep me there and to keep my programs being as productive as they have been for humankind Mr Brown you've previously stated that CA Harris is the most qualified person to be president could you elaborate on why you hold this View and what specific qualities or achievements make her stand out as a top candidate for president of the United States when we vote for the person to be president we should be about um trying to determine whether or not the individuals have credentials and the credentials start with are they well educated yes she is no question about that number two in their employment process have they had significant positions that reflect address the issues that affects the lives of people yes she has all those qualifications has there been the level of honesty and adherence to the highest ethical standards yes it's clear that all of those things are reflective of her process does she have have a good work ethic in other words does she actually read the documents does she tend the discussions does she participate and exchange views with equals of people who are perceived as equals yes she does all of that so there is no question in anybody's mind except Donald Trump's of her qualifications they are there in the most direct fashion and then she has additional advantages in various positions that make up where she lands in the presidency she's done many of those things successfully and with great respect and great appreciation uh period so a combination of all those things makes her far more qualified than many people who've already held the presidency period and who in many cases seek the presidency period I cannot imagine anybody raising a question about her presidential qualifications their own display through all of the last 12 15 years of her office holding you don't make the US Senate without those kind of credentials you don't make the job of highest prosecutor in your state without all those qualifications and you certainly don't get there if there is any tonish anywhere about your integrity she matches all of those qualifications and with great pluses period And so therefore in the world of decision making on qualifications she has an A+ average if the number of how you get na is a four she's way beyond that four period and I'm just pleased that we have that opportunity for a woman and a woman of color those two things are really important to me is it true that you once helped cameela Harris secure a $5,000 donation from Donald Trump in your opinion what's the biggest difference between Donald Trump then and now and was he a Democrat or Republican when he made that donation I believe that he was a republican when he made that donation in reality however I think he had just become a republican I think all the time that I ever really knew him would be over the years he was a Democrat period I also think he was not as ill prepared as he is today when he made that donation I don't think there was any inquiry made on that donation other than who asked him to donate it and he was an acquaintance of mine uh he attended U birthday parties of people like Steve W of people uh in multiple categories uh on the Friendship side and in the world of politics you ask your friends to donate to people you are supporting and they usually will respond because they ask you to donate to people they are supporting and that's the nature of the donations to political campaigns in most cases and certainly in all the cases I had the responsibility to generate support for 80 Assembly districts in the state of California on behalf of candidacies candidates that hopefully they will allow me to keep my job as the speaker of the house and Donald Trump was just in the category of the collecting of donations over the years years when I left that and became the mayor that process continued that donation was solicited when I was mayor and so did Donald Trump know that you were soliciting soliciting that donation on behalf of kamla Harris oh yeah because it made out to kamla Harris's campaign it wasn't any they don't donate money to you as the solicitor uh because you can't get in many cases you can't give hidden contributions we don't allow that anywhere anymore in law we've changed that completely we say you get donation you name who that person is that donated him you give the address of that person so that if there is a u examination of your contribution report it contains the information that can take the person who's looking to whomever you got it from and whomever you and so that contribution didn't come to me that contribution solicited by me but that contribution along with many other contributions went to KLA Harris in the same year that many other contributions from that same Source went to many other politicians so we can but nobody ever looks at all of those they only look at the selected ones that they're looking to criticize for absolutely so we can say now that on side of all of the rhetoric that's going on that Donald Trump actually supports Cela Harris for being the president of the United States even even though he's saying otherwise he certainly was a contributor to a career that clearly had no cap on how high it might go period because if you were pursuing the attorney general or you pursuing a US senate seat in either one of those categories you are potential a candidate for something even greater U Mr Brown camela heis has faced significant scrutiny for her past relationship with you despite her accomplishments as an attorney and a public official in contrast Melania Trump who Pope for news nude photos for British GQ before dating and marrying Donald Trump hasn't faced the same level of public criticism do you think camela Harris's personal life has been scrutinized more harshly than Melania Trump's and what does this say about the public perception about women in politics well first and foremost the issue of uh questioning people's relationships with other people as legitimate but those are relationships with other people and if in any of that represents a threat to functioning effectively in the office for which you're seeking that's a legitimate uh evaluation that needs to be made uh by the VOE in public period there has be no question about that but it is beyond uh the process of comparison between a wife of one person and the husband of another person and neither one of those people are candidates they do not deserve to be compared as people are doing with Mrs Trump and with vice president Harris uh there's h make any comparison Mrs Trump is an immigrant who came here she cannot become president you have to be born here to be president vice president Harris was born here vice president Harris is an American citizen and vice president Harris is eligible to run all the things that go with that candidacy can be examined there is absolutely no reason to have those same standards applicable to Mrs Trump she's not running for president period so to bring her into the dialogue you better have some reason other than the fact that she's just prospectively the first lady no that's not right absolutely so you think the comparison or when they were running the side by side comparison of Melania Trump versus Michelle Obama that would be more fair as a no I don't think Michelle Obama and those two that the other lady uh it would be so unfair to the other lady just on a quick look she's not from here and in view of the fact that she's not from here a standup examination of the two for comparison purposes Michelle Obama would be so far superior period but then Michelle Obama was not anything but the first lady period And if you want to raise questions about the qualification of the first latest that's a fair comparison performance of Fair ladies a first ladies that's a comparison you can make people criticized heavily Mrs Reagan because they said she had too much Authority uh too much influence for pres rean but it never it got to the point where it was as uh basic so to speak on the negative side uh as people have on occasions uh tried to attribute prospectively to Comm Harris's best man uh a first man I don't know what you call first man yeah first man U so it'll be interesting to see how that handles itself whereas the business of pure comparison of Mrs Obama to uh Melania Harris M uh Mrs Trump or is is U you know uh I'm telling you it's not fair to the first lady in that situation because clearly Mrs Obama Harvard graduate big-time Law Firm operative hired Barack Obama as a an employee of hers um when he came out of law school after his wonderful performance as the editor of the law school Journal there just so much so numbers are so different quality was so different based on performance and our measurement system I just don't think that that's is a fair way to measure uh who's the best I think coming from you I think that was um very profound and I think a lot of people are going to understand that because the the general public doesn't really get that you know when you want to criticize somebody for being qualified versus somebody who's not even in the conversation of qualification it's so unfair just like you said thank you for that um Mr Brown Donald Trump has claimed that he knows you well and has shared a story about a near-death experience involving a helicopter that required an emergency land implying you were aboard with him were you ever on a helicopter with Donald Trump and what are your thoughts on this story do you recall anything like this happening no I do not ever recall anything like that happened that could have happened cuz I was never in life on an aircraft of any kind with Donald Trump whether it was an normal airplane whether it was a rocket to the moon whether was a airplane that does anything in the air or any kind of an airplane of any sort and in particular a helicopter no I was never ever in any fashion in a flying instrument with Donald Trump but let's go backwards your question also says he knows you you know him well no I don't I do not know Donald Trump well enough to have a participation with him on an airplane on an occasion when Donald Trump wanted to know in detail something about an issue in Los Angeles I was serving then as Speaker and I was speaking at Harvard and he wanted to do it over lunch which I many times Grant to people whom I have previously met and I previously met Donald Trump through my connection with my friends in Vegas um as I said earlier like Steve W and others and I certainly would have lunch with him before I go back to California it turns out that I am uh in what in Boston and he is in DC he's in New York so I'm going to go to New York before I catch the plane back at 55:30 he says I can get you here and get you to same flight schedule in New York and I can have the conversation with you uh and I did that I met him and but he was never on an airplane with me period he was ever in the air with me that I was conscious of period And it did not happen as he has so related it and I think that's now been acknowledged by him U because there must have been an occasion in Los Angeles California when he did have a black politician talk to him and ride with him to look at the turf of whatever they were discussing for a possible Trump Tower that person was named Nate Holden a former state senator uh who's 6 feet 4 or five in tall I'm 5'8 so he could not have made a mistake of a physical view of us so that he get us mixed up by name I think as usual though Donald Trump's uh capacity on the thought process in the brain World causes him not to pay attention to details between a 5'8 and a 64 uh most of us would instantly know that that's not a good thing accuris wise even if we want to lie you probably should have thought of a story that would be more attuned uh to uh who I am and what I'm about and it would have been even better for him if he had said I had lunch with him at uh the Oak Room in The Plaza Hotel in New York uh in the early 990s to discuss an issue in Los Angeles that he could not help me with that would be accurate that would be accurate so do you think he might have said that sometimes knowing the truth of the matter but then using it because he knows of your relationship with camela Harris I think he made the story up because of my relationship with Kam Harris I don't think he had any interest in telling anything other than something that would cause him to allegedly be able to generate some negative toward comma Harris based upon our previous associations which means he he thinks I am a liability right for her and he's trying to convey that he knows enough about me and her to have me have told him things about her have made no sense and that's simply not true correct no totally not true are you kidding me and he stopped repeating it as as a matter of fact you threaten the lawsuit correct he threatened the law suit against the New York Times and I threaten the lawsuit against him because I have a great respect for the journalistic world and if he sued the New York Times I was going to sue him and agree to testify for the New York Times as I'm talking to you about the absence of veracity to anything he said related to me and Harris thank you for clearing that up appreciate what was your immediate reaction when you first heard about the assassination attempt on Donald Trump and how did this event uh impact your perspective on the political climate as it is today I really was of the opinion that somebody were thinking they were hoping to defeat Donald Trump and when in reality my interpretation once it became clear that he had been just barely harmed that uh it would benefit him and it clearly would have benefited him except for the move by Biden to step aside and give the world an opportunity and particularly the voters in America to see a woman of color well qualif ified to be the president and overnight whatever benefit my interpretation of that shot may have been was totally misplaced clearly the injury to Trump was of no substance when people got the opportunity to improve upon who the president should be do you think that's a sad State of Affair yes I think it's a tragedy frankly that it would take something like that to have people uh stop to evaluate who they are because clearly for their vote purposes it is clear that the reference to the uh attempted assassination has not proven to be at all relevant to the vote process in this election cycle period it has not generate any hostility to the victim it has not generate any benefit to the victim no hostility to the participant on the other side of the candidacy and no benefit to other side the candidacy it has triggered an en noring amount of inspection of the security surrounding elected officials period And it did demonstrate that assassination attempt how really uh lightweight so to speak that our security system for personal help and protection is to the highest level of people because it is clear that based on the facts as I have read them uh that have been come from the various reports it's clear indication that this was not an an attempted disruption on for political purposes this was genuinely somebody who really just doesn't like Donald Trump right so the the the insinuation that it was planned staged from your perspective and what you read and understood simply not true no not true at all not true at all that was a person as warped as you can possibly get and believe me uh and in many cases as amateurish on that warp as you could possibly get and it's just fortunate for all of us he did not succeed Mr Brown in a 1995 Special Report with Diane Sawyer you were portrayed as a rogue politician known for your flamboyant style flashy clothes fancy parties and associated with fine women with camela Harris's featured in the footage in one clip a reporter asked her are you his daughter given that this footage is now resurfacing just hours before camela Harris's first debate against Donald Trump what are your thoughts on how this portrayal may impact the Public's perception of both you and camela Harris today and do you believe this has any relevance in the current political climate I don't think that it will prove to be a disability as what one would try to make it for use on Donald Trump's behalf after all Donald Trump has been convicted of the 34 Council things that he was doing on the money side but even more dramatically he has been accused and in civil proceedings held accountable for trying to hide his relationship in which he paid for period and so it would have to be somebody trying to erode the clear quality reputation that kamla Harris has and trying to make it as negative as as the interpretation of Donald Trump therefore I do not believe that such a comparison by anybody would have any effect on this decision on KL Harris's qualifications thank you I also want to say that just as an observation I was sitting and looking at a picture of you and kamla back in '94 you guys made a great couple she's very she was very beautiful then she's very beautiful now um do you still love her very much so Mr Brown what specific strategies do you believe CA Harris needs to employ to secure a win in the upcoming debate against Donald Trump I think Kam Harris's team starting a month ago or more when she was tapped by Joe Biden the president to become his candidate in the absence of his leaving the fry uh I think that the everything that they have done to expose her to the public has given her the opportunity to solicit the votes of the public and she has succeeded the nature of her candidacy to the people who vote for the Democrat she has Justified that vote by the nature of her her public presentations and in reality she has clearly presented a contrast of who should be the president and this twers candidacy so dramatic that even classy Republicans like the vice president Cheney's daughter has decided to publicly support the Democratic nominee Cheney has decided to support the Democratic dominee John McLean's son has announced he's a republican for the Democratic nominee I just got to admire the team that obviously has had those commitments before but they've been careful to lay them out when it best serves the purpose of saying to the world who she really is and they've done it in a fashion so that it clearly didn't come from a political Think Tank it came from them personally and her personal acquaintanceship with them and that is the key to her election to the extent that in America 85 million or more people are able to have a personal conclusion about KLA Harris will ensure that she is going to be elected and speaking about kamla Hurst being a woman an African-American woman running for president do you think that her win would signify a win a win I'm sorry for all women of America white black Asian Latino and so forth do you think her win as a woman not just an African-American woman would be a win for all women I do believe that if Hillary Clinton had won in 2016 race when she lost it was too bad because we really need to show that women can present themselves sufficiently to run the nation just as men have presented themselves all these years more than 200 years of running this nation and they have not always done a sterling job KLA Harris's candidacy is now presenting the opportunity for women to again be able to demonstrate through her how talented and equal to if not greater than males they can be in running uh this nation she wins all women run run all women can run for every job there is women have in some cases proven that they can do it for the state hasn't happened in our state yet California but many other states it has happened in currently New York has a female uh Governor a number of other states with female Michigan was a female governor there are other states with female governers and that's a great thing but that's still not the nation capital yet K Harris's will do the nation's capital our Capital has already been at one time uh operated uh for eight years uh by a black man Barack Obama not a woman yet in certainly this is opportunity for not only a woman but for a second black and in this case a black woman it's really quite uh inspirational for every woman no matter what age recently Vladimir Putin from the Kremlin has said that he supports CA Harris's candidacy to be the next president of the United States do you think that's propaganda do you think it's sincere what is your take on that well if he had said I want her to replace uh me in my country I'm going to look for me a c of Harris and I'm willing to do what Biden did I'm willing to quit to let my version of KLA Harris become I would think he was sincerely trying to help women but I know he's trying to help Biden not Biden he's trying to help Trump he would like to have Biden's view not ever surface period in his country by virtue of conduct from him so he is extremely committed to defeating K Harris not to help him K Harris no matter what he said just as he was highly critical of Biden he was very helpful apparently based on the electronic communications to helping his friend Donald Trump you got to know that there's no way as anything that has occurred since that last effort that helped defeat that suddenly is I think he was said you want me to for we have a a concept in the world of politics we say we can be either for you or against you whichever will help and I'm sure that's what he told Trump I could be for against you whichever will help and I'm sure Trump said the people in my country have a problem uh with you as evidence by the comments they make why don't you evidence that you got a problem with me as well why don't you said that you much prefer Comm Harris and why don't you do it for these reasons so we may hear more from Putin all clearly in my opinion for helping Trump and hurting Harris and therefore hurting our nation in San Francisco recent uh police statistics have shown the rising burglaries and the surging car thefts Additionally the number of tents occupied by the homeless uh after the covid um situation what are your thoughts and if you could inform the mayor who's the mayor now um about what he should do what would your advice be first and foremost the current mayor of San Francisco is someone who started in politics with me just as Nome started in politics with me the female mayor of San Francisco London breed started in politics in my office in 1995 when I was running for my first turn and therefore I'm trying my best to make sure she wins I've also for the several years that she has already been mayor I've done everything I can to make her successful at the job the whole business of the pandemic altered the situations in this country all over the country and in particular in the cities like San Francisco and New York and Chicago and other places and then suddenly when the US government changed its view about how to address the issue and begin to pull back the resources made available by then the location of where you a homeless person could go you had been pushed out because close contact was deemed the method by which people contracted coic and it was just for everywhere period every convention that normally would be in San Francisco was no longer uh every theater movie house was no longer they was still here but not operational it was just a disastrous attempt to resurrect and reconstruct what your city was like because remote remote work became the order of the day respected by allegedly everybody all the things that went into the pandemic answer was Contra to Opera in cities and then when the government pulled their US government uh pulled their assistant polls it was a great challenge but that challenge would have to be met by small business people who forly had coffee shops and things of that nature in places where there were no workers people that left the employment world it was a great challenge so London breed the mayor of this city faced those challenges and it took her a while because during the time of the pandemic the increase in people who wanted to take advantage uh of the absence of other people in locations and in particular cities like San Francisco Los Angeles New York Etc they did so and the horror that has been experienced from that by many of us including the mayor of San Francisco has been such that it is just now kind of right in itself but it still hasn't generated tourism it what this city relies upon it has not generated conventions which this city relies upon because the hotel accommodations are down to under 50% and therefore the employees working in hotels are no longer as plentiful as they were to do that work CU they're not needed there's just so many things that are beyond the control and it is tough Duty for this mayor or any other mayor uh to address the issue I am doing my best for another one of my prize appointments to be helpful and I will continue to do it that way and in the process it appears as if the crime rate is going down I.E particularly the burglaries and the the auto break-ins and things of that nature it appears also that the tenant occupancy tent attack obviously on city streets in San Francisco as in New York has altered itself traumatically they're clearly not as many tents as they were and with a reduction in the number of crimes robberies in stores and things of that nature has been a change in all that what would I do I would continue to do what London breed is doing except I would accelerated and that's what she's attempting to do with measures on the ballot to get authorization from the public to spend more money on the remedial programs not only that with with help from camela Harris as she becomes president in the United States she could possibly ship some of that the the the federal uh attention towards San Francisco and other inner cities that may need that assistance I'm sure that KLA Harris is candidat will be of great benefit and would be the instruments that every mayor including any person running for mayor either in San Francisco or other places even if they run against an incumbent are going to be relying upon the federal government to be a deliberative delivering partner period in the Rel relationships between a mayor and the president is one of the great great values that any City could benefit from but San Francisco in particular will benefit because in an early question you gave me I mentioned to you that my appointment of Nome governorship I said at the time that another person I appointed was running for reelection that that the two newcomers assisting him even though he lost was the mayor of San Francisco not the mayor at that time but an employee of mine and kamla Harris not an employee but a friend and the two of them was helping to run that campaign is when they first learned how to do campaigning they lost but that friendship would pay off handsomely for s Francisco K gets reelected Mr Brown what do you want your legacy to be when it's all said and done and if you could say something to Cela Harris right now could you please say it what does my legacy mean to the world probably not much what it means to me is everything because my legacy really what my great pride is the people that get elected because of what I've done and because of how I helped and because of how I gave them the opportunity and I took the heat that's the people and those are the people that I want to be really proud of I was extremely proud of Diane Feinstein for an example I was the only person that supported her in 1969 when people really didn't support women and I helped her get the job number two job of running San Francisco in 1969 that's how far back it goes every mayor since that time time I have been of some assistance including the mayor that was assassinated that got Diane Feinstein the job from her capacity for the job that I helped her get when mosconi was assassinated and she became the mayor of this city I have been of assistance to Jerry Brown who's done 16 years as governor of the state of California uh when no other elected official supported his candidacy in his first run for governor job at his father had I did my efforts to help him get there so I'm really proud of all this collection of people that I had something to do with getting elected and holding elected office and I hope it'll be instructional enough so that there will be multiple people who will benefit running from public office with the support of folk willly Brown helped get public office uh to begin with that's really what I want uh my legacy uh to produce because the good thing that comes from holding public office Will Go On In Forever Inu yes and then what would I say to kamla haris keep doing exactly what you're doing just win baby win thank you thank you for coming on the auto dialogue Mr Willie Brown I appreciate you that's all that's all I can say I I appreciate you and more importantly though I think the when you just said what you just said I think that your hand extends far beyond what you could ever imagine because when you come to San Francisco even when you probably were serving you know as as mayor and a speaker you helped cultivate this city and kamla haris Gavin Nome and all of the people that you just mentioned I guess that's why they give you the nickname the king maker and you you don't you don't really like I don't think you take too kind to that but but you are you you're you're a major league chess player you play chess are you do you play chess for do you play you kidding me are you kidding me see my mother I played more chess in law school than I read wow that was another thing I I didn't know you were a lawyer I don't think I think that's one of the things that goes overlooked yeah well it may go Overlook but I'm telling you you got a lot of people who still you used my Law Office oh wow for their survival I didn't know that oh yeah yes oh yeah okay oh yeah like I said I appreciate you all right thank you for the time thank you for the time thank you for the opportunity absolutely yes indeed I must tell you that you know I got to ask fulltime will you uh be agreed to an interview and I have virtually turned uh everybody down because I know they want to talk about KL Harris right that's why they were talking to me right cuz all the things I did you know people forgotten I didn't start being interviewed because K Harris MH the first time I did 60 Minutes mhm on the Sunday production was 1984 wow when I did the Democratic National Convention here with zy Feinstein right then in ' 88 I was a chair of the revan's candidacy right when we had to bail out in Atlanta Georgia at that National Convention MH and then I am probably the only person who had two stance on 60 Minutes 84 MH and 86 96 right they came back to see me in ' 96 the talk about what I had told them could be achievable in California and it was and they wanted to go over that again right so you know it's fabulous now that I can walk down the streets of San Francisco including the people living in shelter and hey may Brown what are you doing out here right so I absolutely love the city that much yeah and you respected and you respect I love what I did yeah and you're respected from that like you say from the people from shelters to the elite I think that said something about who you are and what your contribution has been and how people view you it's a difference and I want you to know that there's not a day when I don't get at least three or four questions all in fun how'd you get here by helicopter you say you serious that's the that's the running joke right that's the running I could IM I could have imagine that I could have imagine that I mean and yesterday when I was in Los Angeles I did a a funeral oh you did okay a thousand person funeral wow yesterday in La for a buddy of mine okay who served in the legislature with me okay and when I ran for speaker he was vote number four wow for a speakership that needed 41 votes wow he was number four wow I walked with him when he and Caesar was trying to get a farm labor bill and we walked from down in Bakersfield to the capital Caesar shabz yeah Caesar shabz and you are good at it you you know but I helped bury him yesterday wow sorry to hear that and we had 30 folk present for that and they were all people cuz we are real tight Clan absolutely so to speak right and it was good to see them all what have you uh but you know you know who Maxine Waters is absolutely she was there yesterday AB oh she was oh she came out of Washington to come to the funeral for absolutely and then when my mother died wow half of the Republican caucus flew from California to help me bury my mother still running yeah we still running I got one more question this come this comes from I'm going to tell you where it comes from then I'mma ask the question this comes from Carl Snowden I don't know if you know Carl Snowden he's from Maryland um civil rights activist yeah I know and so so and he told me cuz I talked to him on the phone I told him I was going to interview and I said um you got a question for Willie Brown he said so he asked me let me ask this question um looking at the uh Black Caucus in Congress in California we have some of should I say the most African-Americans serving in Congress that has ever served I would say the Senate also if you include those as well as California where do you see America and the government in 10 years I don't see the opportunity being ignored for the growth in elective office among black people especially black women kamla winds would not surprise me if there were not four or five more black US senators in the next two week at least in the next cycle and maybe the next next two cycles so that's four years I think there would be another four or five maybe a half a dozen black people holding Senate seats including I must tell you um women handsomely I think there may even be an expansion of black Governors uh in this cycle CA winds I know there'll be a ton of new black uh City Mayors Kam WIS uh that's all part of the enormous benefit of elective office that uh black people are going to experience but in particular women are going to experience period thank you appreciate it