Can Denny Hamlin Bounce Back And Win A NASCAR Championship?

hey guys welcome to actions detrimental I'm Denny hlin driver of the Sport Clips Toyota this weekend and the number well the flying 11 uh for J Gibs racing my co-host Jared say hello Jared hello everybody that's all you get um so where do we even start with Darlington we had uh quite the cut off race what we thought was pretty cut and dry it was looking that way for quite some time time turned into something uh wildly different by the uh in the last 30 laps of the race so where where do we even take this ship Chase Brisco Chase Brisco um certainly didn't see this coming um I'm not sure how many top fives Chase had this year didn't seem like very many but um he was always kind of right he was around in the bubble field there um kind of midsummer and then it kind of tapered off to where you know you knew that uh short of you know like Bubba or whatever they were going to have to win um you know he put himself in the in the category is going to have to win um and he did ran up front all raced I think this would you know the key really was him having a good qualifying effort on Saturday and uh stayed up front you know was really fast in the short run and just kept that track position and kept himself in the game the whole race and then wow we had a awesome race at the end um that uh some wild restarts certainly things got you know kind of tussled around once the one stayed out that was a big big moment in what you know how that last few restarts played out and ultimately who won the race yeah back to your Chase Brisco stats three top fives this season so that's actually more than I thought oh really yeah I mean I mean I don't know where they came but I I just didn't remember really them being upfront a whole lot but still they were it seemed like they've been the steuart hos car that has been had the most solid finishes all year long New Hampshire and Darlington oh okay two Darlington oh so both Darlington so so they were they were good in the spring they they had something there so um yeah we didn't see that coming maybe they did you know so they put it all together and uh what a well executed race and and just a great job by Chase driving that that uh you know three wide in a turn three there I guess in a way that's the beauty of this format that if you can put together one race from top to bottom it just all it takes yeah it just takes one race no doubt about it and and you kind of heard comments from busher afterwards like you know we beat these guys all year long you know they beat us One race and and now they're in um I understand but it's it's it is what we we uh we signed on for uh with this format uh many years ago so it's created certainly you know we've got probably Five Guys in there that you that weren't going to make it in on points but uh did threw um the win in your end system yeah looking at the the playoffs the only the top 10 cars on points made in the playoffs you think about the field right there's four very good Gibbs cars there's four very good hendrik cars there's at least two very good Pensky cars like the the field to get in you either have to be top 10 in points or you're going to have to enter a season thinking that you're going to win yeah you forgot your your headset I'm back I was wondering why why does this feel so different but yeah I I hear things now I don't I just drove back y'all is a long trip back um yeah I mean certainly you know the field is kind of spread out you you you do have all four Hendrick all four uh jgr cars and then you got some you know one or two from each organization here there couple Pinsky cars um you know so it's going to be uh it's going to be a Wild playoffs no doubt about it I think the schedule more lends itself to being you know pretty Wild playoffs more than anything but looking at the the top 10 the cars that made it I'm I'm saying those cars because I'm in a way I'm penciling them in every year is that okay these four Gibbs cars are going to be in contention for the top 10 points these four Hender cars are always going to be good these at least two Pensky cars the 12 and the 22 are always going to be good where do you invest your money to be one of those cars or to be a car that's going to win a race every year if all the parts and pieces are the same how do you break into that top 10 if you're not going to win you just hope that you're in contention enough each week to be able to get a win right I mean so you know the the thing about like the Harrison Burton right he wasn't in contention to win any races um but he won Daytona right um because it's a it's a wild card race which is one where you know pretty much anyone with an engine and four tires rolling at the end has a shot to win um so you know maybe the eggs are in that basket for them because if you think about what it would take for the Wood Brothers to be top contenders every single week they would have to invest tons and tons of resources lots of money and there's still as we can see now with this format there's still no guarantee that you actually do make it so it's almost better to you know try to look up and get one at a super speedway um if you're thinking out it from from a business standpoint Because unless you are one of those top teams that you know we're investing because we're going to spread these resources amongst M multiple teams and those teams are going to perform week in week out and then have a shot to win more often times than not or you could have the route where we're not going to spend as much and we're just going to try to get one here and and hopefully maybe it works and maybe one out of every three years it works but um you know there's many different ways to skin the cat how many teams are doing that how many teams are putting out a car every week trying to be in that top 10 in points to be consistently at the front of the field to win a race not just try to lock into one well nobody wants to luck into one um you know everyone's putting to the best car they can put on the racetrack um given the funds that they have whether through sponsorship or race winnings or what have you so everyone's putting their best foot forward um even the the back marker teams and you know for the last few years spy's had a back marker team and and and you've had uh Rick wear even those are starting to move forward right so they're all everyone is getting better um and so it's making it more competitive and it's what why you're seeing um more race winners year in year out has the floor ever been this high with like those back marker teams I feel like the it's just yeah the Gap is so much smaller the floor has risen yeah absolutely yeah it that's definitely very factual that uh it used to be you know within the first 15 laps of a race you're lapping a couple cars now you don't even see the tail into the field till 50 60 laps in um it's the field is that close nowadays I think the whole win in your in format so I guess some you know we we were on this podcast last week and I feel like it it t some people might have left a bad taste in her mouth he's like oh what Harrison Burton he was you know dead last in in points and he wins this race now he's in the playoffs but I don't feel like the narrative is the same at all looking at this Chase Brisco win cuz it's like man we we went to Darling 18th in points I think it wasn't he wasn't 34th okay but what if a guy like 20th in points was to win last week at like it just seems a little different at Darlington where it's like man if you win at Darlington you really have to earn this Victory like you don't Yeah it's you're not it tracks like Darlington you're not going to luck up and win a track like Darlington it just it takes too much from the car driver pick crew and all that and the 14 team has all the those pieces of the puzzle together right they they have decent enough funding to where their cars are fast enough their pit Crews good enough their driver's good enough and he stayed upfront the entire race right and so um it's just Daytona or the super Speedways Atlanta this weekend I mean you definitely could see another surprise winner this weekend um it's just a different type of racing that um you know as as we as a sport we've just morphed in this direction does all of stos racing now put their eggs in the 14 basket to give the 14 the best chance to advance through this playoffs yeah I mean I I don't know what you know I don't know exactly how it's run so I can't tell you you know what they could change to do that but certainly yes their focus will be to you know get the 14 up there as high as they can make the deepest Championship run that they can um but yeah it's it's it's interesting the 14 car um you know for it's we go to some racetracks and they were really really bad when I say bad like really really bad and some of the Stuart hos cars I've seen it where they've been way off the pace like one or two of the cars would be way off the pace for a little while uh during a race and then you know they come back and they finish okay but I I think the track lend themselves okay to chase I think you know he's he's pretty good on RAD courses we got a couple those in the playoffs if he can get to the round of eight there's a there's one there I believe in the Roo in the final eight I 12 think 12 yeah it's in the round 12 so I mean he's going to have an opportunity he's good on short tracks um you never know this this could be a team that that could you know realistically finish in the top eight in points I mean making the the final four probably would be a stretch um but you know anything can happen you know who who Who's to who's to say how you know how this thing's going to turn out I've got a question about the hos Charter so they're selling three of them and keeping one when they were making these sales did they have to tell NASCAR at the time we are keeping the 14 as ours or we're keeping the 10 or whatever or can they go to NASCAR now and say the 14's ours and we want so to make the money that this car is making by making the playoffs no my my guess is that you would you're bidding uh on or when you're making a purchase you're designated in what Charter that you're purchasing so I don't think that changes so more than likely they designated which one they were keeping from the get-go hopefully they chose for their sake they chose 14 they it's just huge amount of difference um yeah that the fluctuation of where that Charter will be ranked certainly it now has a much higher ceiling are you thinking about that as a team owner like okay here's these four charters for sale from shr there's x amount of races left in the season I want to buy this one because this car may win Daytona or or make it into the playoffs increasing the value of the charter um well you kind of just go off of I would think what what car is it what is its history what's it current ranking and what do you estimate it will bring in for Revenue over the next few years um it's based off of three-year running average of where you finish in the points um I think the first year weighed 70% and it's like I I could be wrong on this on the percentages but it's heavily weighed toward the previous year a little bit more weighed in the second you know year and then the third year um it's it's weighed less so um yeah you just I mean there's a chance they probably would they could have taken the number four right you probably would have thinken off of har yeah you would think that that was the highest ranked Charter that uh that shr had was the four because of Harvick's performance you would think so because yeah he's made the playoffs every year Harvick did yeah so it'll be interesting to see who got what yeah I'm fascinated by listening to the tear down they mentioned how uh post race last night Greg zidel talked about that board had cut back on the resources given to St hosp that suris laptops weren't working man um I wonder if they turn him back on now right what now what surely they got be okay put turn the system back on yeah um I yeah I I guess it's because you got these guys that are you know are agreeing to go to other teams so they don't want to um release any information for next year but I I don't know how that contractually works because it seems as though if you have an agreement with someone through the end say the term years through the end of 2024 don't you have to live up to that obligation until that time or can you say oh where you're going someone else I'm stopping that information now like I don't I'm just thinking out loud here does how's it how's the teams at at such a in a precarious spot where um they can have the information they agreed to get be taken away uh before the season ends I don't I don't know but isn't it just like one of those things everyone sees the writing on the wall so it just kind of dial back their efforts a little bit Yeah certainly I mean yeah you would think so right I mean it's uh you know with the manufacturers it it's they have so much control kind of over the race teams and and kind of what they do and what they get that um certainly the you know no manufacturer wants their information shared to any other teams no doubt about that but uh yeah I just was thinking out loud of like yeah but wouldn't that be a breach of a contract if you don't give the information you agreed to give but um maybe they get it for the for the playoffs now cuz Ford now has the most cars in the playoffs of any other manufacturer yeah I mean the the narrative certainly changed last night it it did uh yeah they they they seem to win when you weren't expecting it right it took them quite a long time into the season before they got their very first cup win and then you know now they've got six of the uh 16 in playoffs well didn't they win all three championships last year yes they did went in a very very bad and off year so um you know by their standards so you've heard us talk a lot about FanDuel America's number one sports book well we have something a little different for you now through September 22 all FanDuel customers can bet $5 and get a 3-week free trial of NFL Sunday Ticket from YouTube and YouTube TV then with YouTube TV base plan you'll be able to watch every regular season Sunday afternoon out of Market game all you need is a Google account and a current form of payment and you can cancel anytime just visit fanduel.com Denny to download America's number one sports book 21 and older and present in North Carolina full price of NFL Sunday Ticket will be automatically charged seasonally after the free trial no refunds terms restrictions and embargos apply gambling problem call 877 71855 43 or visit morethanagame nc.gov let's go back to um the pass uh that Brisco made to get the lead and and this is interesting because there was a moment in this race where you were second um and gabart was on your radio saying you know I I agree with whatever Lane you choose here either you want to choose the inside and try to beat Larson on the inside or you can choose the second row on the outside and let Brisco try his Hail Mary move whatever that may be knowing that they're desperate um you ultimately chose the bottom but then on a later restart you know Brisco was able to make that pass in your windshield three wide and clear all the cars to take the lead yeah I think that was a key moment I chose to there was two separate ones right there was there the first one you're talking about is that I had the second option to choose on the restart right either the bottom front row or choose the top that the you know for us the the numbers suggested that I needed to be fourth so second car on the outside behind Larson when he restarted um but I had noticed how good Chase was was on the short run right and so I thought that my Achilles heel is my front side speed so my car right after restarts didn't seem to have that quick fire off speed that it needed to um and so the likelihood of me passing lson on the bottom when I didn't have the fire off speed I needed in the non-preferred lane was probably going to be not that high of chances I thought that maybe the better chance would be let Chase who was who could challenge lson in the short run let him take the bottom I'll start behind Larson these guys get aggressive get in the fence and I'm going to go around them both that's what I'm thinking um but ultimately it was a two second decision right before the the choose cone or the choose and I'm like I I just got to take the bottom you just never know maybe lson gets out of shape someone pushes him into one he gets out of shape and then I go but it it played out kind of how I thought and that was that I just didn't have enough short run speed to to run with lson and then the the the 14 was all over me because he's fast in the short run and then after 10 laps he starts backing up to me and I'm like now I got to go so what I'm hoping is that he gets in front of Larson holds him up Larsson burns his stuff up and I'm I'm good enough in the long run to pass them both but it we never got that long run at the end it was going to be very interesting talking about a different restart but like kind of in that third thirdd stage when we decided to go long you know we got down to two and a half seconds on Larson seeing how that whole last stint was going to play out was going to be super compelling yeah those cautions ruined your strategy basically right yes yes it did um and then there's another restart you were talking about I chose to triple stack the bottom behind the the one because I thought the one was going to get a really bad restart and he didn't he got a great restart and that allowed actually the 54 to get to the outside of the five and so had to do it all over again absolutely I would have chose behind the one had I known he was going to get that good of a stu well and he stayed out he's the only car that didn't pit yeah I'm just thinking right he's going to go into turn one and just be an absolute sit and Duck and I'm going to be pin behind him and you know that's what I don't want and so I figured okay Larson's going to pass him into one then the 14's right going to be right on his ass that should put me right beside the one on fresher tires I'm going to pass him into three that's how I'm thinking this lap one of the restarts going to play out but we go into turn one I'm like the one is clear like holy cow he he got a better launch than he did when he was on sticker tires so he you know that he certain had better speed after those nine Laps on tires than what I expected yeah looking at your restarts there for a moment it just seemed like you were voluntarily giving up positions I know it it just um yeah I thought fifth on the inside was better than fourth on the outside behind a car with no tires that's what my thinking was and it was not the right decision I have a question about that Ros chest a restart but before I get to I want to finish finish up with Brisco that that move move he made uh to pass two three cars went from fourth to first right on that move down the back stretch how so how does that happen so he he was clear off of through one and two the the 14 cars clear now he's free to run whatever line he wants to in turn two which that sets up you know you want to have a fast exit well he sees that the five and the 54 are side by side now the one is clear okay okay he's going down the backstretch again he's holding to old tires so he's not getting a fast super fast run down the backstretch right behind him is the five and the 54 side by side and these cars are like parachutes when you get them side by side so that's allows because they have so much drag it allows that that next car in line to get a huge run do you remember me and Larsson at the front stretch at at Michigan when Bubba came and blew by us both now we were playing games there with each other trying to position ourselves but that's the gist of it is that that third car in line who is not beside somebody will have a huge run if you stay side by side down the down you know any kind of straightaway so they were slowing each other up which is the 54 and the five here comes the 14 with a huge uh slingshot in a turn three passes them both and I think he did a great job moving up just enough where he forced lson to you know get close enough to one where the five really needed to check up or else it was going to cause a wreck so he just put the five and at a decision there um being that he was you know basically 78 of his car cleared right and that's fascinating because Kyle's in this position in in in this middle three wide here where he more or less I guess stays in it and potentially wrecks or checks checks up and hangs on to what at the moment was the regular season driver title yeah I mean it's interesting everyone up front was racing for something right I mean um you know I was in a position where I you know the with the 12 going out early if I finish in the top five I get two more spots in the regular season that's that's like two stage wins like everyone had something that they were Racing for uh Kyle Bush and and Chase Brisco were obviously Racing for position in the playoffs trying to win a race at the end Kyle Larson was racing for the regular season Championship Tyler reick the same Bubba Wallace up front he's Racing for um his playoff spot so everyone in the top 10 it still came down to where this race meant something for everyone which is why you saw the how aggressive everyone was maybe this is this is obvious but on that Ross chest restar I was surprised that he picked the outside Lane now obviously that's the preferred Lane but him having tires that were worse off than Larson's wouldn't he have wanted my in my mind I would have thought he would have wanted the bottom so he could kind of control Larson in the corner like if you needed to run him up the track a little bit he could is the outside Lane just that much better than the inside Lane regardless of the tire situation in in turn three and four it seems so for sure um yeah you you you want to be on the outside certainly in turns one and two there's just so much momentum to be had um but I I think that Ross um you know that they they had no other options right they they weren't going to win the race from where they were they were you know in the 20s early in the race they just didn't have the pace um you know which has kind of been the trend of the one over the last year is they didn't have the pace that they had in 2022 um they get some good finishes they really do they do the best job at optimizing their day but they hadn't had the pace that they had except since the first year of nextg so he was doing all he could with what he had um and he kept chipping away throughout the day it was like he was in the 20s okay he's in the teens now he's in the low teens and then he found himself you would get a few restarts all right well he's in a spot where he's right there back half of the top 10 on the cusp of it heck heck with it let's you know he had seen information that said that you know people that stayed out on tires um in the past was able to hang on fairly okay now I would have never imagined with nine Laps on his tires he would have held on that that good but uh it was a good play for them because what happens then is that and and what did happen is that then he was able to okay if we get another quick caution everyone pits again now I'm up front now I've got a shot now I've got a fighting chance so I thought it was a great call Strategic call by his team and a must-win situation for him to at least you know give him a shot or an opportunity rarely in sports is there a win and lose for one individual team you either win or you lose it's one emotion or the other um but last night 2311 you have both those emotions Tyler wins the driver regular season Championship he gets the 15 bonus playoff points and Bubba misses out on the playoffs how do you navigate that how does the team navigate that yeah I mean I think that uh you know there're certainly it's a tough spot right because you want to celebrate with your team that that accomplish something great um you know Tyler rck and that whole 45 team and what they were able to do this year uh for the first 26 races and then you know you've also got to you know put your arm around the other and say you know keep digging this is just part of the process right and and it's part of getting better and we've seen throughout you know Bubba's 2311 career that he continu to get better when it comes to how many points is he scoring how many top fives how many top 10 he's progressing in the manner that we're hoping that he progresses and truly enough if you if you can find a way to bottle up whatever has been inside you for the last 10 races and and just copy and paste it for next year for the 26 races you won't have this discussion you won't be on the bubble uh you win a race or two and you'll you you'll not be in a points position where you have to sweat it out in the last race so I think that you know they they're certainly finding themselves it just took a little bit too long for that 23 team to get the results that they needed um the the first 13 races you know just not not at its peak and then the last 13 you know certainly they've they've stepped up their performance and really proud of you know what they brought to the race track qualifying on the poll being fast um you know that that's it's a great sign does one of these outweigh the other your your disappointment as an owner that you know your 23 car is not in the playoffs or that Tyler had the season that he has does one of those outweigh the other are you more happy or more disappointed um I would say probably more happy um you know we knew that BBA after the Harrison win you know that really changed things and we were going to have to he was going to have to have things kind of go his way um at Darlington and really Bucher gave him an opportunity he he he he gave him an opportunity because he was not in the top 10 very much all race long and so if Bubba was able to somehow stay in the top two or three all day that would have put I mean the 17 was going backwards before he got in the wreck with the 38 um which by the way it was that a right rear hook I hate to I he turned left and hooked him in the right rear right I mean yeah maybe involuntarily yeah I don't know about that I think he was upset and he he he turned left on him for sure what's what's the smt show I I don't know I haven't I haven't after this whole Dyan discussion you can't trust smt no well NASCAR agreed the smt was very conclusive when it came to I heard you turned right and wrecked yourself according to their argument but that's another discussion they're on an island on that one so but hey Everyone's entitled to their opinion I uh enjoyed seeing Michael nervous because as a basketball player you've never you never saw him nervous and now he can't control and seeing him be act like I am with my teams and be just a fan and and so invested in his interview you could see how raw it was I enjoyed uh seeing that yeah it was uh watching a back it was you know definitely interesting and and you could tell how nervous and into it he was so it's it's fun you know knowing that someone that has been in the most pressure packed situations uh as a professional athlete you know I I think when when I'm watching it right and when I'm out of races and I'm watching races conclude and I I'm watching the 23 and the 45 you do get way more nervous because you can't control it you're not I'm not in the car I can't make this move or that move or do this or do that you know I'm just looking at it from a fans perspective um so yeah certainly you you feel a lot more vulnerable when when you're just an owner and you know you just hope that things kind of work out his the clip of him in uh the regular season Championship Victory Lane did you see that one where he's got his cell phone out and he's taking a video or a photo of the the crew guys in the trophy they're all giddy and I know um do you think this plays out differently for Bubba if they take if they choose to take tires and pit uh nothing on lap was it 337 where half the field took tires and the front half didn't no because I I still don't think he was going to win the race um and and the way it turned out with Brisco winning um he was going to have to win but Kyle bus was the first car to take tires on that caution and he was had a shot to win at the end so like that that decision yeah but I'm not sure Bubba was ahead of K Bubba wasn't ahead of Kyle at that time ky's going to come out in front of him regardless no he was ahead of he he Ahad no be the caution what what lap was it Travis three 323 there's a top eight bub is in the top eight those cars don't pit the cars behind him pit and it was like okay we took the ball out of Bubba's hands cuz now he's got he's on three laap older tires than this group of cars behind him and Kurt Bush and I think Christopher Bell were in that group Kyle Bush Kyle Bush lap 320 lap 323 eight cars stay out 511 1454 4 2423 Bubba was the last car that stayed out right and Kyle bus was the first was the first to pit in the 20 the 20 was on lap 320 I'm watching it right here regardless yeah Kyle Bush could have been the second car to pit he's able to drive up into the top five on those new tires and he's ahead of yeah ifs and buts I I I don't know um I think it would have been very difficult cuz I just it seemed like for whatever reason you know they just lost a little Pace once they lost the track position um the 23 seemed like they were kind of hanging on um the rest of the day now I mean they were hanging on when I say hanging on like in the top 10 still but just didn't I don't think I didn't think they had the pace the five the 14 um 11 some of those others had track position wouldn't have helped I I don't I don't think so I mean Kyle Bush had a shot because he had he got to the inside and ran the apron through one and two and pass a couple rows without that there is no shot at all so there's only one car that was going to have that opportunity to do that so it would have been a would have been a tough task but I mean everyone has these ifs and what if this didn't happen then you know Chris busher certainly is someone that's thinking golly if I didn't have this problem or that problem you know throughout the year it's I'm in everyone has those yeah you just look back on this race and it seems like there's always a moment where hinges you know where you know it was looking good for Bubba before this caution because was the moment there he him and busher were tied it was plus zero uh on the cut line and then this caution happened and they both went with opposite strategies and one played out better uh for the other and in the end but um yeah yep it's uh yeah it's um it's it's awesome for 2311 and Ty Tyler to you know after 26 races you know have that 45 team and Driver um you know up towards the top of the standings and certainly going to be uh contenders for for a final four spot when in just a few months were you aware of how sick he was and what he was battling in the car they told me on the radio that he was Ill but that that's all they said I just thought it was nerves have you ever had a race where I I thought it was n I'm not saying it was I'm i' all that like with William Byron at at Martinsville like same thing like he was he was feeling really bad and I mean those are pressure packed situations and everyone everyone's body handle handles it a little differently right have you ever had a a race where you've been you know very ill and not not that I can remember have to fight through it mm you've never thrown up in your car mm no I just peed in my seat for the first time in my 19th year that was the only liquid well we never asked you if you threw up or yourself so yeah no I I hadn't had any of those issues um just yet so not going with epitome of Health yeah how hot was it uh cuz I think that's also something you deal how hot was it for you in there 120 or yeah I mean certainly you would think it was at least 125 in the car um you you can pretty much just take whatever the outside temperature is added added 30° and that's pretty much what the inside of the car is usually so so um but it was humid God it was uh it was hot all day long um I thought it actually got I I don't know why I don't feel the heat when I'm in the car um when I'm on pit Lane I'm hot I can feel myself sweating you know I'm warm but as soon as I strap in I do not I just rarely rarely ever get bothered by heat Chris made me run my cool suit this week I might be the you know I run it maybe 10% of the time um but yeah I felt I felt fine after the race and I just think that some you know I just think over 30 years of racing I've my body's just gotten used to being super super hot so uh not that I'm immune to it I I've certainly had hot moments but uh you know not not here lately what do you make of his performance clearly not feeling well and to battle and adrenaline is such a funny thing what did you say Flu Game I saw that on social media people trying to say that well Jordan we got the connection um yeah he was he was not feeling well and I could tell even in his postrace interviews that uh he wasn't he still wasn't 100% so um it's a battle it's it's really really hard um I I think it's even harder to try to protect a lead than it is to say I'm going all out and I just think that um you know it's it's hard enough to stay up front when because you're always going to want to manage your risk like you know all right let me not take my put myself in a bad position and and end up getting wrecked right and so um it's you're not feeling well just adds to it and and and I think that you know I think he did tremendously well considering the pressure he was on under to try to win the championship and then feeling bad on top of it it certainly was not pleasant with that being said are you happy that Chris always deploys this strategy for you where you're never the one trying to hang on it's always okay let's stay out longer here and I'm going to put you on new tires and then you're going to go chase down I think it puts more pressure on me to I mean every time I come in the pits or come out of the pits I'm 15th I'm 20th all right I'll expect you to get back to second now like I'm like all right Chris has a saying he's like you know uh don't mind the mule just load the wagon so I'm like yeah you're you're riding the mule all right I mean no I got how many cars I got to pass 15 how many lives I got to do it 25 okay um yeah they they love putting me in that spot where oh you'll just you'll go past those guys like yeah okay but it it did I thought the strategies you know that Chris had were great it played into our strength um I tell you I didn't think our car was quite as good we had a stackup restart um right after the first stage and I think my car got damaged because it it did not drive quite the same after that um but you know my strength our team strength our car strength whatever it might be has been you know getting the most out of the car lap time wise when the tires are the hottest and the most worn out um so at a track where people were trying to undercut each other which is undercut means you just pit one you know may maybe you got somebody one second in front of you well new tires you'll go run two seconds faster the first couple laps if you pit one lap sooner than them then that means you'll be so take wherever your car is at place it two seconds in front of the person that didn't pit undercutting him is getting back in front of them in the short run and then holding them off after that our strength has been just stay out there optimize the stages to whatever length it is if it's 100 laps run 50 or whatever it might be and others what they'll do is they'll run shorter to try to pass a few cars than hold them off which that strategy works too just depending on lap time fallof um but for us it just works better better to go long I think it was going to work out even better in the first stage but we had a really bad pit stop and um that that kind of we only were able to get up to like fifth or sixth but uh yeah it's just we played to our strength and that's why I said it was going to be really compelling to see where me and Larsson netted out in that last 40 50 lap run yeah at what point do the tires even out ah good question they they never the ones at Darlington never stopped really dropping off but it you would get to a certain lap time pretty quickly and what we've noticed with these Goodyear Tires is that you it's more it's more of a heat thing than it is a wear thing so you'll run let's just say 3050s on brand new tires you'll get to 31 50s pretty quickly and then they'll hang out there for five 6 10 laps and then they'll take another jump at 32 seconds you'll hang out there for five six laps then it'll take another jump and run 3230 so it just you know it's really kind of dependent on how you how you control the tires and what you do as a driver to keep them under you how do you not lose the ground um staying out like so if I stay out seven laps later right and let's just pretend over that average of seven laps they beat me 1.5 seconds per lap yep 7 * 1.5 is is 10.5 sure yep right yep okay so is that math right yeah yeah yeah simple yeah so so that's 10 and a half seconds that I'm going to have to make up during the next 40 laap run right so essentially I need to be um I'm going to run when I come back out I'm going to be running faster than them that entire 40 laps that I'm out there I'm going to be running faster but is it 10 and a half do I gain 10 and a half seconds of net time over that 40 laps that's the strategy right you lose 10 and a half seconds for seven laps can you make that back up over 40 laps this is this is all mathematically like Chris is already doing all this data that he knows that this is but he's making assumptions that I'm going to do my job and run the car a certain amount of lap time when everyone else starts to fall off that I'm going to be able to maintain a certain lap so if you get held up by a car that throws it out it can really you know I think stop absolutely and and what happens if someone runs long with you and you get caught behind them their their prediction for where where you are running your lap time and now it starts to drop off they're like holy we got to pit because we're not going to make this time time back up over over the over the run because you're losing more time than what we estimated during this seven lap period but clearly there's not enough of those variables in play here that deters Chris from deploying this strategy um it's it's just numbers it's just numbers right and you know again if if if if our car was a really good short run car and not a good long run car we would have been on the shorts we would have P it short but since the long run was our strength we play into that by saying okay you guys go ahead and undercut each other and you know not optimize your full ET from beginning a stage to end we're going to optimize ET and then just see where this all net Nets out so and but because of cautions it you really didn't get to completely see it now um I think NBC did a good job of documenting in the first stage while it didn't he said well it didn't work out because we lost 5 Seconds over where we were when we pitted the first time well we had a pit stop that was five or six seconds slow now the second time we did it we gained that we only ended you know 5 seconds behind the leader where we were 10 to start with all these wrecks that we see at the end of races should you make sure that your car is always set up for the short run like God you I know it's such a I know we're sitting here on this podcast every weekend it's like caution this again caution again I know it's it's it's hard to predict that but yeah you would think that you just want to do whatever you can to be fast in the short run um and if it goes long well well you suck at the end right you're just going to drop but it seems like more and more of these races are coming down to shootouts at the end so um I remember that's sort of kind of how you know if I remember right Joey lano's very first championship at Homestead he won that way is that at a track where everyone really focuses on long runs I remember interviews that him and um Todd Gordon did uh back in the day and they were like we just came here saying we want to be as fast as we can for five or 10 laps we want to be the fastest car and then wherever it goes after that it goes and I remember he won a championship that way that was the year where you're going to win the battle you're not going to win the war the whole Martin shx thing and he got to Homestead and it was and you could tell in practice it was like Wow 22 is fast in the short run but he is terrible in the long run but the race worked out they strategized around how they thought the race was going to play out and they won a championship that way so you can yeah you can play it that way Travis but it's you're going to need it to in in that way but it certainly seems like you know having short run speed really really matters here lately with all these late race cautions yeah I mean you can play it either way right you can set your car up the opposite and hope the the race plays out that way right um did you cause the wreck on lap 345 um I don't know about that so I was looking at it I'm watching and I'm get underneath the 54 and three and four and I I I saw this interview where he was kind of upset um he was like yeah we almost got wrecked over there and then we ended up getting wrecked over there um I'm not sure he knew that we were three wide but uh I was in the inside of the 54 and I think he was right behind the one so I I shoot the middle of the racetrack in three and four and then the 20 shoots bottom on me and now we're three wide and the 54 and the one starts coming down so he's up at the wall with the one and then they start coming on the exit and they just pull down and I'm there and he when he pull down we make contact and I'm like I don't want any parts of this so I back out I I hit the break and then here comes the four shoot you know I try to block the four from going three wide bottom because I don't want to put anyone in a bad spot and then here comes the four he goes through the middle and then I'm on the apron you know I'm running as low as I can and then I think me and the four got pretty close I'm not sure if there was contact or not and then the for just kind of washed right up into the 54 so certainly not ideal and and glad it all you know the 54 ended up getting in it's a bad spot for him to be in no question about it um I think he might have been on older tires in that moment maybe not no I I don't think he was he That was cuz he was just outside the the five uh during that time I think he was just fighting his car at the at that particular moment um and he was trapped behind the one that that I didn't want to get trapped behind on that restart but no I I was looking at it and I was running the middle of the track and he just came on down and uh we we barely clipped left rear and then that put us three wide when I checked up and uh yeah there was just not enough room between all three of us three wide entering turn one at Darlington good luck you know it's just not ideal and I think the four I think the four actually wiped out someone else earlier uh that same way where he slid up into somebody and put him in the fence I can't remember what car it was so you're not worried about having a new U neighbor in the bus lot at Atlanta or anything new neighbor yeah it's high park next to you no no not at all okay just checking um yeah but I think that's why Chase brisco's move was was so impressive because three wide is seems so dangerous at at Darlington that he made it work yeah it's just for whatever reason three wide is much easier into turn three than it is one I think it's just because the banking angle is so high in turn one that it just forces the bottom cars up the RAC like gravity takes you there um but yeah I was all four tires on the apron trying to give as much room as I could but you I got to make the corner and so I felt like I left enough room up top but the the four needed more room clearly looking at the playoff grid uh we've got Kyle Larson on top he's got 40 playoff points followed by Christopher Bell 32 red 28 Byron 22 blay 18 Hamlin 15 Elliot 14 kazlowski 8 Lano and syndric 7 Suarez Bowman Burton five Gibbs TRX four um what are your thoughts going into this what now has this round round of 16 and round of 12 which has more Wild Card races than than ever before Atlanta followed by Watkins yeah I mean this is what Nascar wants like uh you know certainly I think that you you you could have some uh Championship legit F final four contenders go out in the first round I think that that's what they want um when they put it put Atlanta in in the playoffs you added another road course um it certainly add some variables that you know all of us drivers are going to have to make sure that we're you know doing the best we can and don't get up caught in a bat you know big wreck I think you know for us personally it's going to be avoiding those 25th or worst place Place finishes um that will be the key to us you know moving on uh but I just don't know that anybody is safe with what tracks we're going to and how you know um erratic some of these into of these races are playing out you just never know yeah I mean it's kind of pointless reading off these playoff points now because we're going to go to Atlanta and some of these guys are going to get involved in a major wreck and they're if they had playoff points Burton Gibb you know Burton Gibbs true bris these guys could be plus 15 leaving Atlanta like it's there's nothing that would surprise me um given kind of where we're going is there a certain strategy for you heading into Atlanta like is it just avoid trying to I don't know I mean certainly you want to avoid trouble but you also want to you know you can't afford to just forego stage point so you're going to do everything you can to you know try to get those and I don't know don't try you know try Try Not to cause wreck you know because you don't want to be in it although you would argue causing wrecks on Super Speedway usually ends up best for the person that actually causes it um and not so good for those that yeah were right in the middle yeah we just talked about minimizing risk I feel like you can't do much of that at these types of tracks um can we talk about for a moment your co-owners a piece of paper that was stapled to his back what's that uh backa Curtis pulk shirt yesterday please don't ask me about my Charter I don't want to disparage NASCAR and lose it with a zip locked face emoji ah no I really don't uh I would choose not to uh speak about it but I think that uh I think it kind of speaks for itself and kind of what uh what certainly would H I can't believe you actually wore that uh they they do not want you uh speaking negatively uh it's a new new ad to uh Charter agreement we we'll see how that goes um so yeah it's uh it seems like they definitely um NASCAR's got their stance and the teams have theirs we'll just see where this goes over the next few weeks I guess cup team's got a new offer and I'm assuming that it wasn't great it's it's never been great I don't I don't think uh I you know I think personally from 23 111's perspective we would take a decent deal not even a fair deal just a decent one and um you know from our standpoint it it's got a ways to go how do you manage being a driver and owner in these situations and try to you got to focus on you know the playoffs coming up but you got all this other stuff that you know every driver should have never lingered this long but ultimately uh the parties involved dragged our feet uh you know this I believe this is part of NASCAR's strategy is to drag their feet and drag it to the last hour and then put you in a panic situation so um I I don't think we're panicked I think we'll we'll just kind of see this thing out for for as long as it takes to you know get get to where both sides feel like the they're in a good spot what's the what's the downside at this point for it taking longer um well downside is that at the end of yeah at the end of December first right is that um you officially don't have any Charters until a new Charter agreement is done so um you know there's there's rights and things that we we currently have uh that we deem very important um that you know that NASCAR would no longer be able to use after that after that date does the lack of a charter agreement hurt 2311 other teams going out and selling sponsorships because these sponsors are worried about the uncertainty um I don't think so I mean I think that um generally speaking at you know 231 is is in the racing business um we plan on racing cars and um that's that's why we invested as much as we did uh in the sport as we plan on racing it's just a matter of whether we have Charters or not so next season if you go into 20125 season without Charters or if there isn't a charter agreement done by then this money um that you know the the 14 team just found themselves in by winning this race you know upgrading their Charter and whatnot that goes out the window there's none of that yeah I I don't know I we're getting in the weeds a little bit too much um but yeah I don't I don't know I mean without without Charters you know NASCAR would lose a lot of Team assets uh that they would not be able to use the teams could obviously just pick and choose when they won a race and then you know where does all the money go um that was in kind of you know the historical the fixed or whatever like that uh I don't know where that ends up going so um I I don't know it you know you you try not to picture a world without them because I think they're you know hugely viable um for the race teams and you know that I think Steve Phelps was actually correct when he said on Harvick's podcast that um you know fans should care about the Charter system because you know that that is the Charter system is very very valuable for NASCAR itself not not just the race teams it's just as valuable to NASCAR uh the only thing I will disagree with is that he mentioned that uh the team said they wanted these four key pillar things uh and the things that I heard him say we're not the things that we we said so we're that's where we're different is that uh what Steve Phelps is publicly saying that we asked for is not actually what we have asked for the the one takeaway I had from that interview um since you brought it up is that he explicitly said that Charters are not franchises like they are in other sports is that true are teams under the assumption that they are like what is I think the I feel like the reason why yeah I fans want to say care about the charters is because they don't really know all that much about them yeah I I think for a very very long time um Nascar has always said that you know this is our family business and if you don't like it don't participate um I think the world has changed since that mentality was set forth by Big Bill a long long time ago um while I certainly respect everything that they've built and and they they've done a great job um you you must update your thinking um or else you will hold the sport back um and certainly healthy and viable teams is what grows other sports we've seen a tremendous amount of money come into uh ownership uh in other leagues and it has done nothing but Propel the sports forward um because they all Pull the Rope in the same direction the interest of the league is the same interest that the teams have uh they join up uh they they collect all their assets and they say all right let's go sell this together right where NASCAR and the teams are well you own this and I own that and we're competing for the same SP sponsors like all we do is all compete against each other instead of locking arms truly locking arms and growing this sport together and so until um in my opinion uh you know our sport starts to do that you know we will continue to just you know pedal in the sand on a lighter note uh the number 11 team fantasy football draft is tonight the the draft order apparently will be randomized before the start last year commissioner had the number one pick which is questionable huh who's the commissioner uh Tyler over Street oh who do you think uh do do you have your eyes set on a number one I can't I don't know if I can reveal that information on here if Travis gets this podcast out before 8:00 well um good luck to you my team will be strong as always will you be managing your team solely this year course of course absolutely there'll be no co-ownership for the the Denny ham fantasy football team I I don't know what league what uh Charter restrictions do you have against outside investors I I don't care you bring it in some private Equity Funds I I've one question for you uh who uh tweeted from your account about being a champion as an owner I don't think we need to answer the question on here that kind of reveals some private information I mean come on Jared like I said you can't let uh a couple small details get in the way of a get in the way of a good tweet yeah but it it's it's not it wasn't factual yeah but it was funny okay but you should have had if I had to do it all over again and I had the choice to edit of course I didn't see it until after right but I would have had another asteris and saying actually not really to to be completely transparent I forgot all about that and it was question it was okay the that the fact you have the owner and the driver and I actually had a question that I I wanted to ask you during this podcast about that is that you care about you know Kyle said in his interview you know we won the the own with the owners yes that's how we get our Charters get ranked that's how the point fund pays out is where does the five car where 45 car finish correct however it seems like there's you win so much when the driver does it because you get all the social media exposure I mean all the um complex sneakers and all Nice Kicks and all these accounts posted about how Michael Jordan's team won the regular season championship in NASCAR that to that good for NASCAR that all these other big social media accounts latch on to what 2311 is doing in NASCAR amazing yeah also re reck's car this week with the hood chef's kiss yeah yeah one of my favorites I think that was a a great partnership um you know that uh that we did with upper deck and certainly uh upper deck is is certainly a brand that Michaels you know had his face on a few of those cards and have you know three of probably the greatest in their sport right uh it was awesome but uh maybe it's just 2311 but it seems like the value that that has for your race team's brand outweighs maybe the monetary gain that you would get from the owner side yeah it's just a different scenario um that you know because Kyle didn't partici participate in that one race in the K 600 you know if you add up what the five car total did in that 26 Races they scored the most points yet the driver the 45 scored the most points so it's just a very unique situation and certainly we could it is viable that one car makes the championship but not the didn't that wasn't that last year last year we yeah the nine made it into around we could have had a driver a driver not in the playoffs win the race uh a driver champion and a owner ownership Champion three different last year yeah anyway makes my head spin but yeah that's what we got so you'll have to keep an eye out throughout the playoffs of the two different sets of uh playoff standings yeah hopefully they luck hopefully we don't need to and it's the 11 and it makes it simplified absolutely well uh on to Atlanta we have a review oh we do yes the truth is that dog is bad luck that said if you get rid of it it's going to be wor suck it's Lulu Lulu is the dog you are not wrong absolutely not wrong but I'm thinking of it like this when it you know my friends brought this up and I think this is very very truthful my luck and I hate the word luck in racing because I think if you run in the middle of the pack and you get wrecked all the time it's CU you run in the middle of the pack and that's where the wrecks happen that's not luck you just aren't running good enough we are luck now that is things ill time cautions someone else does something like things that we did not cause our luck has been so bad these last two months it's like a shoe a six deck shoe playing Blackjack it's going to turn is do you have enough money in your bank roll though to keep sitting down and keep putting chips on the table we do and that shoe is going to turn around and it's the the Terrible unfortunate things that have happened over the last two months for us has got to get better the law of averages must catch up and it's going to catch up for the good for us for the last 10 we're going to have very fortunate things just going to start this weekend fortunate things maybe get some Redemption at Bristol too I won there last fall what are you talking about a cheated engine apparently oh yeah and I won there this spring oh that's what I'm saying the ition what the whatever no make it three and we're going to make it three in a row brist ah it has to turn around right if you there's no way that we can continue to be as fast as we are and have bad finishes for these various reasons unless we are clearly doing something very very wrong or it's just you know the wheel of luck you know it's been black 10 straight rolls and now it's time for it's time for red to hit it's a new game now new game new game new ball game all right well appreciate y'all tuning in and we will see you after Atlanta