Pittsburgh Pirates Bullpen Continues to Stink in 10-8 Loss to Cleveland | NS9 Postgame Show

[Music] n [Music] [Applause] [Music] what's going on everybody Welcome to the NorthShore 9 postgame show powered by Perman Brothers I'm Jim with me today is Neil Neil not a great one not a great game at all I hate this team man the the lengths we go to to lose games it's it's astounding yeah we'll we'll get into all of the stuff that happened today I do want to share this this uh this this note though so it was the it was the bottom of the fifth inning when the when Cleveland was kind of scoring All Those runs and and taking the lead back um I think I think at this point it was 8 to 6 and uh my wife she she wakes up super early she goes to bed pretty early so she she she comes over kisses me good night and she she notices I'm I'm just not in a good mood she just goes she just she just goes don't be too sad it's only been like this for the last 30 years and I was just like you gotta be kidding me but H it was rough rough game and on top of that I've got the hiccups right now so if you if you hear me just kind of blurting out random noises during this postgame show that's what it is so not a great night meal no um at least at least these games have been somewhat entertaining um because we're scoring runs and like you know that you felt pretty good when they had that six run inning you know KW not get in runs Rowdy tles hits home home runs but I'm just so tired of us handing leads right back to the other team it happens so often and it the starting pitching and the bullpen just kind of switch off it's not it's not one or the other both of them are are just not doing their jobs right now it's frustrating because you you've seen the offense actually perform lately like the offense has not has not been a problem for a while now for for like a month um but now you see the pitching take a turn for the worst so yeah we'll we'll get into it lots to discuss tonight a lot of a lot of bad stuff there was some good I guess the offense was good we'll talk about some good stuff offensively but but pitching wise just terrible but before we get to that bet online it is the world's most trusted betting platform and your number one source for everything football bet online is every stat every matchup and even live odds and spreads to beted on during the games think you know your stuff get in on our $200,000 Mega contest and pick five games against the spread every week for your chance to uh weekly prizes and a share of $200,000 when the game's over head on over to our online casino and get in on a game of blackjack or poker or unwind with one of our over 150 slot games head to the website today to get on the action bet online the game starts here all right so Pirates lose 10 to eight to Cleveland I mean let's just kind of start off from the beginning here bayy falter gets the gets the start for the Pirates he gives up two runs in the first inning um Josh Naylor two-run double uh gives up two more runs in the fourth one of those on a Austin Hedges perfectly executed uh squeeze bunt which just man it's it's uh that was that was a killer one Austin Hedges Not only was he stealing strikes early on in this game in a big moment um you know O'Neal Cruz gets caught looking and I don't think he I think he saw maybe one strike in the entire bat uh but he gets caught looking in a big spot early on in the game uh with runners in scoring position uh which ultimately led to your boy Derek Shelton getting tossed um but but yeah four nothing deficit kind of right off the bat um not not the best start for bayy falter I mean he he only goes those four Innings and gives up four runs it wasn't the it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be just because Bailey falter is like the perfect pitcher for Guardians hdden the Guardians love making lots of contact um it's not hitting the ball as hard so like they can squeak out hits like it's so Bailey falter who's a pitch to contact guy I was a little worried going into tonight anyway so I mean I haven't been impressed with him in a while but I'm also not surprised by how he did tonight um I don't think he looked very good at all no no he he wasn't good anytime you give up four runs and four Innings I mean he gave up uh n seven hits one walk only struck out two yeah I mean he he did not he didn't have it today um but before they pulled him the Pirates like again this offense hasn't been the problem so I want to talk about this fifth inning that the Pirates had yasmani grandall leads off with a single um Jared triolo flies out ikf with a fielders choice so I mean they did all this with two outs um Brian Reynolds with a single O'Neal Cruz with a big two-run single to get the Pirates on the board Andrew McCutchen crushes one to deep Center off the top of the wall two-run double uh and then Rowdy tles kind of kicks it all uh you know with with puts the puts the bow on it with a two-run homer they score six runs in the fifth inning um on on you know six hits off of uh off of lively who was dominating them kind of the first four Innings he was he was looking pretty good the Pirates just got to him in the in the fifth and you start feeling pretty good all right this this is clicking I guess I started feeling good yeah we we're off the backs and was blowing a seven run lead so I guess giving the giving the Cleveland four more runs and then immediately after that shouldn't be too surprising um but no that was a really good inning and I I completely forgot that it was all of two outs like that was that was good stuff like and you know the middle of the lineup had a really good day today um two five yeah each had two hits combined eight RBI like they sorry yeah eight RBI I'm not going crazy they they they drove in all our runs today like they were all really really good and honestly I'm McCutchen was a beast today Andrew yeah let's talk about Andrew McCutchen so he was activated off of the ilil today um you know short stint I think this was his first day that he was eligible so he know 10 days off basically comes back today uh and he just starts hitting bullets I mean from an exit vlo standpoint he had five at bats today um 96 and a half miles per hour 99.2 102.5 103.1 106 he had three barrels um his double that he hit off the top of the wall would have been a homer in 25 different ballparks um and then he had he had a line out too early on in the game in the first inning where uh where he hit the ball like I said 106 was one of the hardest hit balls of the of the game um O'Neal Cruz hit one 12.3 today just ridiculous how hard he hits the ball um but but I thought just an outstanding first game off the iil for cutch yeah and uh clay has given up that's only the second home run all year Emanuel clay has given up and McCutchen hit the second one um like it is he he just looked really comfortable at the plate and yeah I couldn't believe when I saw the the five hard hits but yeah he should have had two home runs um his Ops is now up to 752 like he he's he's defying age and I don't think any of us really expected him to be hitting this well when when he came back at what age he's 37 right I'm not making that up yep like he he looks good and a lot of people were trying to say like it's time for him to retire but I don't know I think I think mccashion is one of our better hitters on this team and he as weird as it sounds uh yeah I mean he's one of the very few hitters on this team that is actually above average and and like you said the home run off of Emanuel CL that's hard that's hard to do um like he's only given up one all seon long he had he went into today with an erra of 0.58 um so yeah hitting that Homer off of Class A was big and we'll get to that because that could have been a meaningful Homer and it wasn't so we will we will touch on that um but but no I thought just a really really good game from cutch uh yeah I mean just to kind of put the season stats together here two for five today um but a 110 runs created Plus on the year yeah like the 10% above League average at age 37 and there's really only two other people on this team that are that are hitting the ball above average um so yeah that's yeah ridiculous um I I it it it is going to be an interesting topic this off season because you look at this team and you're like why like where does cutch fit but then you look at it and you're like he fits because he can hit like he's still hitting there's still a spot for him because no like he's a better hitter than than most everyone on this on this team yeah and he's taking team Friendly Deals to come play with us like based off his stats last year he probably could have gotten at least double what he gave what the Pirates gave him in free agency and there is something to be said about like a d who can't play every day you know that is that's a little rough you know where like he has to have his days off but yeah he's going to come back cheap and the Pirates need bats wherever they can find them and so if you're not trading for Brent Rooker which you're not going to you you should bring Kush back if he if he wants to because it wouldn't it wouldn't surprise me if he wants to start think about going into the sunset with with the injuries catching up to him with him missing time even as a DH but I mean bring him back for one more year and hope that you can build more hitters around him yeah 100% so so the Pirates storm out in front there in the fifth um you're feeling pretty good you're like okay we got we got to uh we got to Lively let's let's get to this Bullpen um Cleveland comes up in the bottom of the fifth uh they pull falter so 59 pitches they take falter out after the four Innings and four runs um Carmen Majin ski comes in who back back off the ilil he's been pretty like he's been one of your more reliable Bullpen arms uh lately uh again it's been he he he's only thrown one game since coming off the ilil uh but but prior to that you know he was he was he was one of your more reliable arms yeah so you put him in in the fifth and Neil he just gets shelled get shelled it just it was one of the worst outings I've seen from him yeah single to Jose Ramirez to lead off the inning which okay it's Jose Ramirez right uh but then Josh Naylor with a single uh John Kenzie Noel with with a home run and and well just a monster home run he h a 450 feet to left he just just crushes it um and then Andres Jimenez with a home run so just just a dreadful outing from Maj jinsky and then you just stormed back back from down 4 nothing you go up 64 and then you look up five minutes later and you're down eight to six and that's just it's Soul crushing yeah and and they they did a good job getting a run back pretty quickly like in the top of the six which I'm sure we'll get to but I mean everyone in the bullpen is even Chapman who's been our best guy and even Nicholas like we're talking about like we talking about Maj jinsky Nicholas Chapman who have been like our more reliable guys this year who haven't really had many blowups like they're now blowing up it it's a perfect concoction of like every person being bad at the exact wrong time I mean I don't want to get on too much because this is his first start back from the I like this is his first time back and so I still think he has a play I still think he's good it's just it's really unfortunate how how our relievers just keep blowing up since the since the trade deadline and it's everybody you know it's it's everyone uh Dennis Sana I guess you could say is like the one guy who's been pretty good um no Chapman Chapman has been really good except um like except a couple days ago except a couple days ago and you know and every even look at the stats like and it drives me mad like there the stats like post um like team stats it's like the Pirates have been top 10 top 12 in pitcher ER Bullpen ra since the All-Star break and it certainly doesn't feel like it it really doesn't feel like it because we just have a new guy blowing up every single night yeah it's it's so frustrating because like you said it's every night every night it's somebody someone doesn't do their job today it was it was it was Majin ski uh and then later on it was it was Harmon so yeah um yeah and and and we'll we'll get to Hermon too but I said so 8 to six you you you bring in Domingo Hermon and it's like you know whatever I don't know why this guy's still on the team but but he does give you two clean Innings right uh you get to the ninth uh hold on you get to the eighth bottom of the eighth and then it it you you've scratched and clawed your way back to one run um the Pirates scored on O'Neal Cruz single in the sixth Cruz had an awesome game today at the plate by the way two for five three RB he he just continues to play really well but you you put Hermon back out there with a one-run lead in the bottom of the eighth inning and it's like you're kind of already playing with fire here he just gave you two good Innings when you know he probably shouldn't have because he stinks um but you get to the bottom of the eighth you put him back in he gives up two hits and then they just they leave him in like Runners on the corners one out one- Run game he's already thrown two in a third Innings go some like you had an off day yesterday everybody's available in your Bullpen this is a winnable game maybe you didn't think it was because you've got class coming in in the ninth but like go out there and try to put up another zero here so you've got a chance in the ninth inning and they stuck with Hermon Jose Ramirez steals second so next thing you know it's second and third David fry singles in a run Josh Naylor singles in a run now it's a three-run lead and you're not you're not scoring three runs it it might make a little bit of sense if this was a guy who wasn't on a one-year minor league deal that you're leaving him in there just to see what you have in a Lost season but sticking with Domingo Hermon who sucks who shouldn't be anywhere near this team and frankly like shouldn't be in baseball right now he should be in rehab is being let to go in the ninth inning in a one-run game I can't I can't wrap my head around that it is it's super stupid um and you're right everyone was available I understand that Holderman and Bednar and all these other guys haven't been good but like go to Denise Santana or something yep like it's it's it's so stupid that we are giving Innings to this guy in winnable games yeah it was frustrating because again Andrew mccutchin solo Homer to lead off the ninth and if you don't give up those two runs in the eighth then that run means something right that's that's tying up the game at that point how many how many games have we had this year where like we put up the one run in the ninth or something like that and like if the bullpen just doesn't give up that extra run it means something like I feel like it's happened more times than I ever can remember like in a pirate season it it it does seem like it happens all the time um that might could be that might be completely antidotal like it might be recency bias like but man I feel like it's happened so many times this year yeah and I mean this this kind of begs and I mean this is maybe more of a topic for like an ns9 live or something like that but man this this last month we talk about how two weeks ago on nste live I said basically everybody needs to go like Andy hannes needs to go Derek Shelton needs to go Ben shering needs to go but I but I sat on there I was like you know what I'm fine with Marine staying around but this last month has been such a catastrophic failure just across the board um I don't think Oscar Marines job should be should be safe by any means uh because you finally got the production that you needed out of your offense at a critical Time of the Season and your pitching just crap the bed and so when you look at all right who's in charge of the pitching it's him and again it's a new guy it's a new guy every day it's not just like one or two guys that are doing this it's it's a different person at down the line every single day it it's the whole team pitching has been terrible it it's hard there because I think think I haven't se the Discord that like my opinion on Marine is shifting a little bit um I used to think he was pretty darn good and I still think he's a talented pitching coach like I do um I think the work he's gotten out of our starting rotation this year is genuinely amazing work and like I don't want to like diminish that but he really struggles to get the best out of his bullpens does doesn't he I think we I think it was kind of like this last year too where he he seems to be able to like work with the Yan oios of the world get good stuff out of Luis Ortiz even get like good stuff out of bayy falter but the bullpen yeah we don't have a consistent guy in the bullpen and we saw this last year with bnar a little bit we saw this last year with Holderman as well yeah I mean I would I would be okay if he stays I think he's a good pitching coach but I also if he goes because they need to get a better guy to help with the bullpen I wouldn't be upset but I don't want to be too hard on him because I I do think he's a good I do think he's a good coach I think just my thing is like you look at that pivotal stretch of games that they were in right starting with like the the Arizona series and kind of going from there you know you you give up nine it's just consistently giving up way too many runs nine runs nine runs six runs six runs nine runs seven nine six eight 10 um 10 18 nine 14 10 the last six games that we've played Neil we've given up 10 or more runs and four of them yeah no it's it's it's been it's been a complete collapse um and no and Marine I I don't know how you get this type of performance from The Talented Bullpen arms we have there because like I think all of like a lot of our top guys are talented Bullpen guys like I don't but I think you might be on to something in terms of like mentally prepared for important situations it seems like we kind of folded when we needed to like get clutch performances from our best guys yeah that plain and simple that's exactly what it was like you you went out there you you played well enough immediately after the All-Star break to put your team in a position that you were in playoff contention you went out there and we can we can argue for days if they did enough at the trade deadline right we can argue that yeah but fact of the matter is they they upgraded their team at the trade deadline like they brought in upgrades Isaiah Conor FFA is an upgrade over Alo Williams right uh Brian uh Brian D La Cruz is an upgrade over giwan Bay right uh Jaylen beaks is an upgrade over whatever other random Lefty they had pitching at the time like these are all upgrades that they got at the deadline and they just completely utterly failed like just just unilaterally the entire team starting directly after like the trade deadline was July 30th and then as soon as July 31st happened the entire team started to just fail miserably and you've got to then look at okay like this is the first time that we've seen these coaches on this team play like a pivotal stretch of meaningful baseball games late in a season it hasn't happened this is the fifth year that they've been around we've never seen them coach meaningful games before and the first opportunity they they had to do that they just failed miserably and I think that's just kind of where I'm at and I and I know you you're one of those folks where it's like you know the the coaches don't matter and and I I think that's so I I think that the I think that the hitting and pitching coaches matter much more than the manager that's I think that they I think they're much more responsible for like getting the best out of players while the manager is like managing like the games themselves like and you can disagree with me that's fine um I'm gonna disagree that's perfectly fine like I think Haynes and Marine are much more responsible for the performance of the players in shelness um but like I said if if the changes you need to do like and I've said this multiple times like if you need to get change in and you and Derek Shelton says he wants to stick with these guys and you don't think that either marine or hannes are the guys to get you to the playoffs then yeah clear the entire coaching staff out get new guys in get some new blood in and see what they can do with with with with these guys because I mean David Bednar as soon I don't want to say it I don't want to say he like isn't able to step it up when like the games matter but like he was a two-time All-Star closer when we were a terrible team and now when we need him to close games and get us to a winning season he he collapsed but it's not just Bednar it was Holderman it's mag it's everyone and so yeah I think I think there is something to be said that we don't have the right mentality in the bullpen right now which sucks yeah and and again the offense scored eight runs again today um and kind of going back like they scored they scored 10 runs yesterday and lost they scored five runs the day before and lost they scored eight runs the day before that and lost so it's like the offense is they're finally giving you what you need and it's just the the pitching isn't there to back them up it's it sucks um but but yeah I they they lose today they dropped to 62 and 72 they're now 10 games under 500 they are I mean the Reds at least got crushed today too so they didn't really lose any games on them but the Pirates are a game behind the Reds they're in last place squarely in last place they're the I mean they're the fourth worst team in the National League at this point it's it's it's extremely frustrating well I mean I know I know Alex was on uh ns9 live last night and he said it would take uh something biblical to get you know front office change in and well and I I I feel like a collapse of this nature if it keeps going the way it's going I don't know how you don't call that a Biblical type of event because I mean just the amount of games that we have lost because the bullpen can't do their job like if we even get like if we get like five or six less blown saves over this fat this stretch we're we're still talking about playoffs we're not talking about clearing house and being 10 games under 500 like it's it's I hate to say it's the bullpen it's not the offense and I can't believe I'm saying it it's the the bullpen has cost a team in the season going into today the bullpen had the 27th best erra um the starting pitchers had the sixth best ER in baseball so you're looking at a team as the sixth best performing starting pitching staff in the major leagues the sixth best and they're 10 games under 500 because at different points in the season either the offense was failing them or the bullpen was failing them um and it's just yeah it it it's like they just can't put they can't put they really only need two of those things to come together at one time like as long as two of those things are working simultaneously like you think this team can can do it um but they just haven't been able to and and it's just the the players just aren't good enough and it's frustrating because you're in year five of this the players aren't good enough the coaches aren't good enough in my opinion like that just top to bottom this organization isn't good enough they're not getting the job done and I think Pirates fans and and us are included like we are we are getting very very frustrated we're getting sick of this like how many years do we have to sit through games and Seasons like this before we can can can can have a good year because like I said that's that's really all I all I need give me give me competitive baseball for the entire season get us into the playoffs every now and then six teams make the playoffs now shouldn't be that difficult like if you're trying you should have a pretty good because at any point in time there's 15 teams in your league five of them are not trying like like there's a there's take a handful of them and it's like all right these teams aren't even really trying to win right now and so all you got to do is beat out four other teams that are trying and you're in the playoffs and they they haven't been able to do it so yeah know it's it's it's a waste of a year and it's super it's really disappointing um because there's no guarant that your starters are six in the ra next year there there is no guarant I always say it's most likely that they aren't and they probably regress a little bit um and so it really comes down to the offseason like how this team handles off season where you're gonna have let's say can we say $40 million a little too much to spend are is 40 million about right at least I mean commitments of like 41 million going the next year Ethan Ethan put out if you're if you're not following Ethan hoolahan make sure you're following him but he put out his like projected payroll for next year like including the entire 40 man roster and I think it was sitting at um like $71 million right now just with with people who are on the team um so attendance that's that's with arbitration and everything yeah so let me get the ex for so 7 75 75 a half million yeah projected payroll for next year just based off of what they have right now no I'm if you have the 30 to 40 million like and you don't have to spend any of it on pitching because I don't believe in I don't believe in paying money for relievers I think bedar is a good example of that and you have like nine starting pitching options in house that are pretty solid you have to nail the bats and you have to you have to hope that uh Moretta and baroi are back back to form and you find some more bar well Bara Moretta and baries in the off season those neat little trades that you make because those are what going to build the rest of this team you have I think Tyler said it once you've done the hard part you have done the hard part now it's about filling in the rest of the pieces because I still think like Holderman is talented I still think Bor is talented I still like Moretta I still like machinski I still like Nicholas like you seen Nicholas take a huge step forward yeah Nicholas is part of yeah like there are talented guys like it's not hopeless but it has to be a different offseason than what we saw last year and I know this is more of like an ns9 live type of deal but this yeah I'm tired of seeing the bullpen do the same thing over and over again yep so Bullpen gives up six runs today and four Innings you're just not you can't win games when your Bullpen gives up six runs I mean that just just plain and simple so that's that's two straight games where the bullpen has given up at least six runs I mean last time it was 11 um it's really bad yeah I said they're giving up four four out of the last six games double digits yeah hard to win when you're giving up 10 or more runs in a game it's almost impossible yeah all right well I have like one more thing I don't know if you want to touch on it like let's do it yeah so like clearly they see like they want to try different things like that's why they moved O'Neal Cruz to center field I think he's all right out there all things considered um but since they're trying things and why why aren't they playing their young guys like why why is Henry Davis riding the bench all the time I understand he hasn't been very good but if we're like acknowledging the season's over and we're trying O'Neal Cruz out in the center field we're trying to see if ikf can be our everyday Short Stop next year why isn't like Henry Davis playing baseball games um why is gasman grandal G all the starts like I know he's been better and I will fully admit as someone who did not like grandall that he has been a whole lot better this year but why is Henry Davis not getting reps in a Lost season I don't I don't get it I think you can say that for a lot of people like why is ymani rundall starting so many games why is Billy McKinna starting so many games like yeah you just got you just went out there and acquired Billy cook and Nick York you've got to add both of them to the 40-man roster this off season so like just do it now and see if one of them can be something for you going into next year because if they don't get any playing time this season like stantial playing time down the stretch here you have no idea like you're going to next year with no clue if either of those guys can help you out none whatsoever yeah um and you know Billy mcken is not gonna be on this team next year so like why is Billy mckin Billy mcken is started too many games like Billy mcken has started too many games for this team I was fine with him getting a shot and like getting him some just like service time or whatever but he deserved it he had a good season in Triple A but it's now to the point yeah where like you need to find out things for next year and what you need to find out next year is can you can you rely on Henry Davis for literally anything because right now the answer like like the answer to that question is no like you can't you can't go in the next year relying on Henry Davis to provide anything of value for you so go ahead and get him playing time now to see if the answer to that question can change and if it doesn't change then you know going into next year we can't count on Henry Davis but if he has a strong last month of this year then you can go and say okay you know what we we may have something here yeah you need to you need to find out if you have something with with Billy cook um because again he's not young he's he's had plenty of minor league experience it's not like he's not like he doesn't know what he's doing down there call him up play him so that next year when you're TR trying to figure out how you're going to fill the roster and you can say all right you know what Billy cook he we can probably get 300 bats out of him and and we feel good about it but if not then you're adding him to the 40 man he's just taking up a spot and you have no idea what you're gonna get out of him and I would even rather see Palos up here over Billy mckin because at least palasio has options it's like I think like he's be on the team next year like even though Pelosi was like isn't like some World beater like it almost feels like they want to win games which is why they're not calling up the young guys but then they also leave Domingo Hermon and for at a one- run game after getting two clean it the decisions don't make sense to me and may I don't want to I said before I don't want to like get too critical because we don't have the inside information we don't have the data that they have and maybe there's a very good reason that Nick York is still in Triple A but I would rather than at least get a shot you know and that that's that's from an outsider's perspective if there's data out there that suggests that Billy mckenny should be in the majors over over Nick York or Billy cook right now then they need to fire their analytics department so like it it's that's just yeah like that that's where I'm at like no that's that's a that's a terrible excuse like this team is out of it they have their playoff odds are now below 0.1 there's nothing left to play for this season the only thing to do right now is figure out and try to answer some questions going into the off season we only we only have like 30 games left right it's 29 or 30 games like get them up here good like and playing grandall playing mckenny playing these guys that you already know aren't doing anything for you playing them right now is just a waste of everyone's time it's a waste of everyone's time so I agree anyway sorry for that t that went a little longer than I thought all right let's get out of here 37 minutes 108 loss to the Cleveland Guardians uh they're back tomorrow um game two of a three- game series 6:10 p.m. Luis Ortiz against Matthew Boyd see if the pyus can I don't know maybe not give up 10 runs tomorrow that would be great we'll see all right guys thanks you everybody in the chat you we're keeping it Lively appreciate everybody uh listening to the post game uh afterwards you guys are the best like comment subscribe all that good stuff um we appreciate you thanks for thanks for hanging out with us at 10:40 PM following a uh another just rough loss by this team so you guys are awesome than guys all right we're out we'll see you tomorrow see you guys hey you all thank you for watching I know we try to provide the most entertaining content that we can uh and we'd love to spread it to as many people as possible so I know it doesn't seem like a lot but if you could take the five seconds to like this video And subscribe to the page it helps out so much more than you know thank you and let's go Bucks [Music] oh