NICK KYRGIOS vs JOHN MCENROE | The Bad Boys of Tennis Stir Up GOOD TROUBLE on the Wimbledon Grounds

Intro my dad used to manage me the first 10 years of my career he would say to me John if you question an Umpire just don't curse they can't do anything so that's where I came up with you cannot be serious you're an incompetent fool you guys are the pits of the world you know so you couldn't have told me that maybe 10 years ago I I listen I tried yeah I did welcome to hanuka's Good trouble where we celebrate those who have the courage to disrupt the norm I'm Nick curios professional tennis player and your host in each episode we'll sit down with game changers who aren't afraid to rock the boat we'll dig into their stories and the waves they've made in their worlds for the [Music] better welcome to my show good trouble with Nick curios as you can see we're at the beautiful Wimbledon joining me today is the original bad boy himself his haters called him the super brat most Johnny Mack but I lovingly call him the OG he amassed the most open error titles the greatest single season win rate and easily the most broken racket allegedly his Artistry is not confined to just the game he plays music does voiceover acting he's an art collector a husband and a dad of six you've truly done it all now John thanks for joining What GOOD TROUBLE Means to John what does good trouble mean to you uh good trouble means to me that I finally made it you know and I'm hearing a lot about your show so I've been when's the call coming I honestly wanted you first some of the First episodes but you left me on red for like four months no no no that's uh we don't want to get into that but it's all good I never ever thought that you and I would be ever in the same box commentating one of the most perfect events in the history of tennis so who let that happen curios and macko in the Box commenting on other people's behavior you know I'm trying to figure out how that happened um I think that it's got all types of possibilities you know we've done it a little bit but this is you know I love the Australian Open but this this is sort of like um The Pinnacle to me you know when I grew up it was like if you made it to Wimbledon it was like unbelievable across the ocean so the fact that we're doing it here look at this I mean I don't know how you got permission to do this I mean I thought you're the new Bad Boy how do you get to be I've never been on Henman Hill I walked by it but this is uh this isn't too shabby [Music] Becoming a Commentator so when you were like playing during a career and obviously you and I had some crazy moments you know towards umpires and just towards the sport and it was all in I think in in good faith we got big hearts with competitors did you ever think that you'd be on the other side being a commentator did you ever say I'm never going to commentate cuz I did I was like there's no way I'm going to be doing it pretty much everything that I said I wouldn't do I've done you know I've never play seniors tennis never commentate I wouldn't be caught dead doing that I'll never own a tennis Academy I mean they I'm fed up with these people so it it is sort of in when you're in the middle of the eye of the storm which I felt like I was I mean some of it was my fault I admit I'll give people an example there's there was 15 local newspapers in London so everyone's trying to come up with something to you know a reason why you would pick up one of them and I think that because of that embellishment of the truth or outright just making things up seems to become the norm Y and there's nothing you can do about it which is frustrating so I sort of had this um if I ever win this damn tournament I'm out of here I'm never coming back and you know I was my frustration was growing cuz I sort of was considered one of the favorites um you know I made it to Wimbledon at 18 in 1977 so I'm thinking all right this is perfect for me I'm going to kick some ass um and then you know couple of three four four years I hadn't won it I lost the match to Borg it was one of the you know it was the most memorable batch I was ever part of but I lost I win the tournament and I'm like having said I'm never coming back and I felt like right at that moment I could fly like I could fly out of the stadium it was like the relief and the and just the joy was so great and then I remember like five minutes later like I want to win this again again I got to come back here so it's actually a lot easier now than it was then cuz when you're coming you know this you come and you're trying to win it you sort of Locked Up and yeah yeah yeah you feel like you can't do anything you're lucky if you have a you know good night out have a good go to a good restaurant I definitely felt that I was very like confined and didn't have those late nights but but interesting though that um you think about it that that was the year you got to the final definitely so you know you sort of have to give up certain things at least temporarily if not for a longer period so now I can come and enjoy like I have my cake and eat it too in a way I mean it's nothing like walking on Center Court they'll never be the same but it's pretty damn nice to sort of be in that corner Booth or be just part of this event now and they've done so many good things for for the tournament also for the players cuz definitely I sort of felt like the players weren't getting treated too well in the beginning so there was this Clash of personalities but also Clash of belief you know I was like why is everyone so well behaved here you know you know I grew up in New York City um you know so it's the younger brother's not very loud Pat's quite calm almost the opposite well you know you live and learn um you know I think he obviously saw what I did and was like I'm not going to go there and I don't want that type of maybe it could call it good trouble as it turned out this is more of Beginning of John's Tennis Journey a personal thing what brought you to tennis specifically but you have a passion for it uh no specifically was my parents moved to a part of New York Queens which is actually where they play the US Open joined a club a block from where I lived and I started to hit a few balls like with my Dad we started playing at the same time the pro there whose son I believe played on the pro tour a little bit said hey your son's good you should send him to this place in the Port Washington Tennis Academy I didn't know what it was uh this guy this legendary captain of Davis Cup teams Harry Hopman is uh is there he runs it I'm like who the hell is Harry hotman well he coached Rod L and Rosewell knew all these great Aussies he made me try harder you know that's my goal at my Academy to go out on a court and get you to try harder than you normally would or do something that you didn't know you could do you SE me try hard at your Academy haes I'm always there my goal is to be the Harry hotman of my Academy you know and and be that inspirational leader I'm not like X's and O's I could do this stuff but that's not me I got you know 35 other people my brother tons of other people to do that so one thing fell into another so there's a quote in your early teens shorter than most of his peers and Pudgy in his early teens yeah and for me I relate to that well that but I didn't know that you were like like that in your team to be honest because there's pictures of me on the internet people are like how' you become this athlete and I'm like I was no athlete cuz I was like chubby I wasn't tall at all then all of a sudden I had a grow spur at 64 and A2 then I started sliding around I was like I didn't really do I don't think I did the work for this I think I was just blessed but I didn't know that with you so well they used to have four sizes in jeans it' be small medium Husky and large I was husky I wasn't quite large okay my mom always used to cook these great meals that's the same with me same thing but every meal there was dessert if you're a kid like growing up you're 12 or 14 you know and someone says you know here's some chocolate cake with some vanilla ice cream no no I'm um I got to be uh I got to be disciplined 12 no way you're like are you kidding me of course I'm going to have this I used to have like a whole thing of Oreos and milk right before I went to bed I'd be like you know wake up and then I realized actually when I went to Stanford which is actually after I got to the semis in wimbl I go to college for a year and I realized that dessert is an option you don't have to have you don't have to have dessert so then I was like maybe I should try to you know see if I could actually get in pretty good shape because I never won a five- set match in the Juniors lost everyone I played I'd fade in the end I'd be like and then I'd see the guy lost who he's going for a run after I go what in God's name is this guy doing we just played five sets and you're going to go so I was like wow these some people are really into this but do you think that ended up shaping your tennis game like did were you ever not fit enough to play cuz when I originally got on the pros I played my first couple Grand Slam matches and I found out then that I wasn't fit enough to play five set matches cuz my record in five set matches is unbelievable now it's like I think 12 and 4 but early on I lost like two or three in a row and then I found out that I needed a lot of work and I needed to do a lot more to get to the level I needed to but did you find that out when you were there or beforehand I guess I was lucky that in my day the courts were such that you know you were serving in voling which you know doesn't happen now a little bit yeah not as much 10% of the time as opposed to 90 so let's talk about your style because you Changing the Game know I have my style I love NBA so I walk on every court with the pair of Jordans and in 2022 I got fined for wearing red Jordans and a red Jordan cap it was like I think it was a £6,000 fine and you know you look in your career you've got the headbands the collar the socks the signature shoes where does your VI and you know style come from is anyone you emulated off or is that just you I'd like to say it was you know good part of it was me you know you're trying to be like a rebel with a cause being with Nike was very helpful for me because they had encouraged me to sort of you know sort of do the opposite of what the normal path was I remember way back when my first Wimbledon and there's a picture of me like with the dun lot racket the wood Racket and Nike shoes poster said Nike shoes are tougher than you know any Racket and so the idea was like embellished not in a way but mainly you got to be yourself I mean of course there's people I looked up to I mean Rod Laver was my idol but did you know Rod La is the world's nicest guy yeah you know I'd be like Rod say something just not that nice about somebody I'd look at like nstasia for example and Connor these guys they were just you know we were like the inmates running the Asylum um I loved other sports I can't say I took it from like Michael Jordan was you know somewhat similar time as me yeah cuz he came in with a the orig I've been signed with him since 1978 he was you know early to mid 80s is it true you told him that you didn't like just do it I I did tell Phil Knight that he's he came to me with the advice you know he goes what do you think of this new slogan just do it I said it sucks it's you know it's it's too obvious clearly he knows a little bit more about marketing than I do so I think ultimately you know this you have to be yourself definitely if you're not yourself then and it's just everything it's it's so obvious to CHAPTER 2: Defining Moment [Music] me so look the all England club and wimon since 1877 nearly 150 years of you You Cannot be Serious know I've had some controversial moments you've had some controver but I think the famous you cannot be serious I think no one's ever topped that moment do you ever wish that someone topped that or do you like that being at the Pinnacle of all controversy I'm not sure how controversial it is now it's sort of like almost people think of it as funny yeah it's good I love it I'll tell you my dad used to manage me the first 10 years of my career God Rest his soul and he he he was a lawyer so he he would say to me John you don't need to do this uh you know you're better than them just play of course he would say like you don't need to do this you're better than them so he goes and he goes but if you question an Umpire just don't curse if you say stuff that's you know they can't do anything so that's where I came up with you cannot be serious now that is we just our money's worth in the whole episode by you're incompetent fool you guys are the pits of the world you know so you couldn't have told me that maybe 10 years ago I I listen I tried yeah I did I did I try I I go Nick come over to my apartment let's have a drink and yeah I'll be I'll be it would have went great and you know at a certain point you would have started listening yeah maybe maybe you might have forgotten but that's a whole other thing but you know at that was that was a when I went over the line see that was perfect you know that I only said that one I played 15 years on the main tour that's the only time the only time I said that was that one time it ended up I had a book I wrote called you cannot be serious um it's sort of become like e it's either sad or amazing you know it's probably both a little bit it's pathetic in a way but it's also like pays the bills I suppose you know the things that I had that I thought maybe would stand the test the time where these guys well you you've heard of a couple of them feder and adal jokovic these guys turned out to be pretty good yeah they're pretty good yeah it's like when I lost to uh some nobody at the open when I was said I'm going to win the open one more time at the end of my career I'm 31 I'm going to do it Pete Sam turned out he was pretty good too my last Wimbledon was 1992 lost in the semis some nobody was was Andre Agy oh yeah he's pretty good too so you know these things happen so I'm glad that I can see feel part of the sport still def it feels like in a way I'm more part of it even than when I was number one in the world you know when they were telling me get rid of him suspend the guy for a year I'm like suspend me for a year I'm the best [ __ ] thing you have is what I'm thinking Phil Knight who you may know cuz you're wearing those beautiful Nike clothes every time that would happen he would call me and he'd go John Phil Knight I go Phil what's up keep doing exactly what you're doing boom hang up I it's a win-win the greatest perk that I've ever gotten from being a good tennis player is that I meet These Guys these legendary say musicians or actors Jack Nicholson told me never to drop names Mick Jagger don't change a thing I'm like who am I going to listen to Jack Nicholson Nick Mick Jagger or and Phil Knight or am I going to listen to whoever the you know the president is of the uh you know the tennis Association so it was a pretty easy choice now things get a little because if you don't go by sort of the TOS they're going to make life a little more difficult for you and plus you know there not much you can do on the way up but you start going down and then dy I they start you know coming out of the Woodworks and they got big [ __ ] Smiles on their face all of a sudden there's a great quote to be a Being Misunderstood genius is to be misunderstood and the British press I think misunderstood and I quote super brat the most vain ill-tempered petulant loudmouth that the game of tennis has ever known they said that about you when you were 20 years old and for me personally like I've been called so many things and I think eventually it's actually helped me become the person I am like thick skin and I don't really care about it anymore but you were 20 when they said that about you and you were achieving things that are like the game had never seen before how did you deal with that at a mental level not very well if people watch me play but um I think they had it completely wrong you know if anything I was shy it's like what's better to show like fear vulnerability like you start crying on the court or anger if that's the choices yeah you know I was brought up now it's different now I think with the people the way people look at mental health Etc it's not just you know Naomi osak and Simone bils it's also a lot of male athletes you know how do you deal with it I hid behind you know it's better to get angry and deal with the ramifications of that than show Fear vulnerability and you know especially on the court I think exactly so but that's all they see they don't see anything else I remember the first year I played here I was playing on the court one it was probably the first time they ever saw me get mad I'd lost the first set in the TIR it's when I took the R I was and they all start booing I'm like why are they booing man I'm I'm the guy and and then I was like all right I'm going to kick the racket I'm going to see what they do and then I'm like this is the greatest thing ever I get back to New York hey are you the brat guy the super who wait a minute you know and it just turned into this like I was like super BR that's got to be the worst goddamn name I have to put up with this [ __ ] the rest of my life as a matter of fact I'm 65 and I'm still hearing this you know you do learn as you said to get a little bit thicker skin having kids has helped but I was thin skinn yeah it would fing drive I'm like are you kidding man you got this all wrong yeah definitely I mean I've I've gone through it as well to be honest and it it sucks cuz I know you as a person and you're you're unreal but I mean let's talk about Peter flaming once said the best doubles team John's Doubles Career in the world is John mackenro and anybody and you're such a good team Guy where does that like do you prefer competing as a team like doubles or do you prefer being on your own like where does that team environment com into that's good question um you know I played a lot of other sports as a kid I like that obviously I was best at tennis and I do like that like you know you get all the accolades but you know they're going to lay it all on you if you lose so that's the tough part doubles was a way to improve my singles but it was also the way to be part of something you know besides just yourself yep probably until the 3 four 5 years into my career I finally became a better singles player than doubles player I finished number one in double seven years in a row whereas I finished number one in singles four years but I could and I stopped playing doubles B basically at a certain point because I well I had kids I had kids and then I was trying to uh figure out a way to manage that and I felt like my singles uh I didn't do as well because I think the doubles kept me sharper than going in the gym and LIF you know see these huge muscles I'd lift for hours nothing would happen you've got so many things going on the commentating you know you're playing Finding Balance in Life guitar you're collaborating with all these like amazing people like how do you find time to just balance everything where you just kind of take it as it comes I think it's it's it's something that I've been trying to sort of figure out for the past 30 years I think when you're playing on the pro level you're in this bubble you feel like there's got to be more to life than what this is um and then had kids and then you're trying to juggle I had kids you know you got to that's your number one priority and then you're like God I don't know how you do it all and so it's it's a process you know I've been trying to sort of wean off that you know stuff that you your ego trip for a long time and I think I've done a pretty good job of even when I failed at certain things whether I tried to game show a talk show a lot of things that I thought maybe would be the direction I would turn didn't work out the way that that I thought it would but you know they always say you learn more from losing than you do from winning well if that's the case then I better learn something from these things and find out what it is that really you know you know makes me happy and you know head towards that this process continues to this day and has been going on um for a long long time uh and I feel like I'm actually pretty proud of like the way I've tried to do it done well Sports is one part part of your brain then there's that like that other side like music the Arts Y and that part wasn't being used then I had when I first stopped playing on the main tour I met my now wife I've been with about 30 almost 30 years Who Sold millions of Records in the States you know she was welln but had grown disillusioned with the music because they don't treat women fairly and so I said hey it would be great if we'd gotten a band together and she said to me yeah it would be great if we played mixed doubles at Wimbledon and I go you never played before and she goes exactly 30 years later it's taken 30 years now oh yeah she said to me hey we maybe we should do some gigs together really I go we're not getting any younger they're looking for they're going the next 25y old aren't they uh but you know it's for me if I could pick up a guitar play a couple hours a day that's a stress release it's a stress release you know for me social media is Social Media a huge thing you know I go on Instagram every day and I it's cool to see you know for how long no not too long I don't use it too much but I see like what what's what what my screen time my screen time is probably like four 4 and a half hours a day it's not too bad it's not too bad I think I don't know I've never been on it but you know social media in general how do you think you would have gone if I'd be in jail right now why I would have said stuff that I you know off the you know you don't think you would have adapted and taken as a responsibility I would I would have liked to think that I would have but so far at this point I'm not on it it seems like you can easily get yourself in trouble yeah but this is you haven't had any of that have you uh you good trouble I like that name by the way that's a good name sometimes my kids take pictures we're in Instagram we're playing some they'll can we put it up I'm like whatever do whatever you want I have honestly not looked at any of those things um but you know I'm thinking you're making me think that maybe maybe I'm missing out on something you missing out a little bit I think but so when you were dominating on tour right yeah like what would we have seen what was it like you have seen me partying with some famous people yeah but that's I think that's only a positive well I I do too but I prefer to keep it sort of you know behind closed doors I don't want Mac and rolls having dinner tonight at uh who the hell cares to grow the game of tennis it's I think it's good like that I'm into I would cuz like let's say the big three back then was you Bor Connors I'd say and then there's federa Novak and Nadal and now you'd see what the big three would probably be C alarz and we're probably still searching for that next person like maybe is this guy going to play again come on everybody but like you know what I mean like the social media around that I think would have been cool like having you guys the Rivalry well you know you know honestly the the opposite worked because um used to be they'd say stuff like oh we're going to have the you know TV cameras in the lock room and then we're going to follow you around like no you're not get the [ __ ] out of here but you know there was something about that time you know where there was it felt like there was a lot of personality in the game so we didn't need to do a lot of that it's actually by not doing it I think actually helped us CHAPTER 3: Legacy y feel like during your career with whatever [ __ ] you coped like the media the criticism but now every person that hears like your name only has something called they're like love that guy I love Becoming an Icon when he used to play like did you know that during your career when it was all said and done that people were just going to love you because you I think like you known as the crazy guy but you obviously your level was you know you won Grand Slams so you only loved now I don't I haven't ran to one person that says they don't like Johnny M well I'm sure you could find some I did feel like even when I was being criticized a lot uh in the Press suspend this guy you know he's terrible for the game if I walk down the Kings Road which is one of the main roads in London nuts and you know when I first played there was sort of the punk Revolution you know so it was sort of going against the grain in society in a sense and so I started to realize that number one a lot of these people were supporting me you know I had a lot of the working class the normal people were they they were behind me like you keep doing it and they sort of felt like the outside looking in so I felt like it was like trying to break through a wall yeah you know if I could do that that I think that people would see me in in a different way I didn't really succeed in doing that while I was playing but I think afterward when I got into commentating like BBC for example allowing me to sort of like just do your thing be yourself it was the way people commentated back when I played you know and Dan mascal for example was a legendary broadcaster and you know and a lot of times they'd be the only guy in the booth there only be one person oh that's a you know a gy of a shot you know they are magnificent you know and and that was sort of the way that you sort of expected to be called but then I think what I appreciate is that I was allowed the chance to be me yep and hopefully people have seen hey maybe that guy's not so bad after all he's maybe he's got a sense of humor so Johnny Mack Wikipedia says you've done it all what's next for you uh what's What's Next for John next for me would be the ultimate dream would be to go join a rock and roll band preferably with my wife and go out and do a a real tour and really play music on a more regular basis can I control the social media for that yeah if please do because I I we need some serious help all right well I got an idea let's go let's go walk around the Wimbledon grounds let's do that let's do Evolution of Tennis [Music] it you know the evolution of the game like for me like the courts are are slow now like when you played obviously they were a lot faster condition Serv volleys generally well Court was so bad bounces that's why we were taught cuz you would hit in the air right cuz it would take a bad bounce do you prefer playing with wooden rackets with these rackets like cuz wooden rackets you got good feel like it almost made you it always made you have good volleys right cuz I say meddev with a wooden racket he would probably struggle you know what was funny is cuz I did this bit with uh meddev yesterday and he part of it was him dressing like me with a wooden Racket and the guy was Bing amazing really yeah he goes oh my got him better with the wood rer okay so that kind of killed that no but generally that would be absolutely be true so here we are to rang yeah um there he is you good baby good to see you how's it going you know the average player was 62 back then was 510 priz money's evolving how do you see it you know what's going to change in the next I think I saw like what was coming cuz I played Ivon lendel and he was he changed it cuz he was a big guy 62 is you know had the huge serve forehand but didn't volley and then they started slowing the courts down so I could see things happening I don't want it to be wherever it's a bunch of you know guys 68 you know that just serve out of a tree and there's one shot rallies I think there's got to be a way that to figure out how you can show like why I like alar so much y because he's showing all the skills someone taught him at a young age how to volley like the pros at my Academy I go you got to teach these kids out of volley not that they're going to maybe volley a yeah I agree but but but they got to be to do everything no one listens and I mean you look at the the modern day tennis game and you look at The Modern "Big Three" the Modern big three now you got probably I mean joic is probably still one of the big players you'd expect to against then you got alar you know who's that next guy who will be the next I guess member of The Big Three moving forward in the next 10 years well I was hoping it'd be Ben Shelton you know sort of oh yeah you think you you got a big serve but but you know I'm I'm I I wanted you know uh he he made some great advancements and for us in America huge you know the story is great he wasn't just focused on tennis 10 years old you know he played American football yep he's a hell of an athlete hell of an athlete co uh went to college for a couple years hopefully he'll Peak later 20 something 25 to 305 that's the the guy potentially but to me it's like you know it's really difficult to say who that person right now you're seeing you know 21 22 those guys are you know sin alcaras are the ones that that you know separated themselves you know run has taken a you know not there where where he was if you come back and play that's what I'd like to see 21 anymore yeah but you're still young you could be a young 29 so I mean we're in one of probably the best probably places in tennis history right now guys like literally on the top of a rangy watching all these competitors How John Wants to be Remembered play Johnny mck would have been here curios has been here all the best tennis players in the world so one of my favorite quotes I guess that you've said I can't promise you'll love me forever but I can promise you'll never forget me so how does John I want to be remembered and after that you got to give us one last qu cuz we're in the best we're in the best place in the world so how do you want to be remembered well hopefully that people recognize that I gave back to the sport that gave me a lot that would be a remember that people said he brought something to the table not just a talent you know hopefully to play the game but also an intensity and a personality I mean because I think you need all that combination in our sport I think you needed sort of in every sport but particularly a one-on-one especially now in tennis we made it more than ever and and and to be sort of an ambassador you know I I I feel like in a way I am because it's not about me you know it's when I do TV commentary it's not about me it's about who's playing so if I can be like I mentioned earlier uh I always love chocolate cake but it tasted even better with vanilla icing on it so I'm like the vanilla icing hopefully that's what I want to be sort of and hopefully thought is a good person good person good person person Andy how are you big Special Appearance: Andy Murray fell can can we just say hello to you just to say hello to this Legend what's going on here how are you he's doing I'm doing his podcast ohce yeah has he been behaving or yeah he's been good you mean him him or me what do you mean he he's actually you're crazier than I hands down what do you think you know you know me a little bit longer not maybe as well as Nick but who's crazier in your opinion question I'd probably go you yeah you would yeah why do you say that well maybe I maybe know him a bit better off the court so I've obviously seen both of you on it you know I have both obviously are up there on on it on the crazy Spectrum on the court but off it yeah I've got time I got time to make that up though by the time I get to your age man that's a little disappointing you know hon appreciate it all right guys best man thanks all right guys so Final Words this is it Johnny Mack your mic drop moment Wim in the background Andy Murray just walked past what one quite for the right for everyone oh my God this is tough to even imagine coming up with this I'm going to say just cuz we're here at Wimbledon and uh we're fellow athletes and we're all aspiring to Greatness and we've had a lot of talk about mental health and the issues of that so I'm just going to say my court it doesn't matter whether you win or lose until you lose that's that's good thanks Johnny M appreciate it that was awesome got thank you [Music] Outro C hey guys that was the episode with Johnny Mack don't forget to like And subscribe and watch all the episodes [Music]