The Terrible Podcast — Talking Steelers Rookie DB Ryan Watts, DL DeMarvin Leal Jump, OTA Comments

welcome to the terrible podcast with your host from Steelers depot.com where you can find all your latest and greatest Steelers news it's Dave Brian and Alex kazora always lit talking Steelers and now here's Dave and [Music] Alex welcome to the terrible podcast season 14 episode 136 he's day Bryan and Alex kazora Steelers depot.com thanks for being back with us here this Friday Steelers Nation day Pittsburgh wrapping up their first week of OTAs they'll be back out there next week from next couple weeks in through June so one week into the spring workouts and obviously not going to Proclaim about how well the team looked overall but everyone seems healthy and a lot of good quotes and so things seem pretty solid right now uh not what to Pirates not with the Pirates yeah they uh I have become resigned to the fact that I'm probably not going to live long enough to See Another World Championship uh I was fortunate enough to at an early age see a couple of those with the We are family and and and all like that but uh man they they even get the P pitching now and can't uh the bullpen can't hold it and uh they pull you back in for a couple of games and and then they have what happened the last couple of games against the Giants here hey they can't blame any on of this on you this time uh uh which is good there but uh anyway it is uh football in short season continues on here and I think we've got a couple interesting nuggets to come out of that to discuss today and we'll probably go down a couple other rabbit holes here to kind of wind up the weekend so where would you like to start let's start with the addition the signing the Pittsburgh made yesterday adding running back L Michel perine to their offseason roster the second Veteran running back the team assigned this week be beginning with Jonathan Ward on Tuesday who was in rookie mini camp with the team on a veteran basis and then adding per Ry former fourth round pick of the New York Jets in 2020 played as college ball at Florida was most recently with the Kansas City Chiefs winning a ring when I think two of them actually with a Chiefs the last couple of Seasons so more running back depth more veterans added some people are wondering and asking why are they adding so many Veteran running backs Dave yeah it just comes down to that you know you need to you need to build out a 90 man roster which this team still does not have right they're at 89 right uh and you know running back some position you got a you know couple of obvious you got guys that you know are going to make the roster uh in Naji Harris and Jaylen Warren and Cordo Patterson and you know how much uh work outside of uh getting the getting the offense installed and stuff like that do you really need out of those guys and you know you always want to be prepared in in in in in case of injury and you're gonna have have to have a couple of practice squad guys and you know obviously they got the uh uh the the uh the kid out of uh Georgia uh undrafted free agent that they'll continue to take a hard look at but you this is just kind of filling out a depth chart and getting some guys with some experience in there obviously a lot of these guys are are probably not going to make the 53 man roster but once again you're going to need guys on the practice squad so you know I think that's the best way to kind of explain that away and you also don't know if someone might be dealing with a hamstring or you know something along those lines that that that maybe you know uh required uh an additional move here but uh uh P you know P Ryan was a a kid that was just let go by the Chiefs I think about five or six days ago so uh it's going to be a minimum salary on him uh just as it was with the ward and you know you just move forward from there we'll see how long they last on a roster sure you said it well some people have asked and speculated is this somehow related to Nai no it's not this is related to training Camp depth and in a year where you have as you said established starters and guys in your roster and Harris and Warren and Patterson who's 33 those guys are probably not going to get a ton of work maybe a little additional work for Harrison Warren given the newness for the offense but it's the same running backs coach it's the same offensive line coach and really no matter what Arthur Smith calls Harrison Warner probably run it because they've run every sort of run scheme the last two years under coach Meyer and Coach Falconer so it's not going to be anything that radically different I'm sure for Harris or for Warren you get in the training camp live tackling sessions Harris will be protected I imagine Warren will have more protection this year probably not get tackled and be subject to hits as often given that he's now established there really isn't anything else for him to prove in his third year just like Harris in his third year last year they became very careful with his workload so you need guys to be able to shoulder that for depth for a run based team and to have some experience and guys that have kind of been there done that is always good and Ward who's versatile and pery who got a bit more of a run game pedigree than Jonathan Ward so go in Camp see how these guys look obviously the top three running back spots seem pretty much set in stone but practice squad as you said is up for grabs absolutely absolutely so you know we'll see how long these guys stick around uh give me a quick salary cap update let's start early here with the salary cap update you had a post I think two days ago on on where this team is currently at where they could be give us an update yeah where they sit currently and we're waiting on some of these contracts to come in for like Ward and pery but those should be fairly easy to predict I would think that they're going to be veteran benefit deals on those guys with no signing bonuses uh the NFL PA still running a couple of days behind but they do now have all the draft picks under uh contract there and that matched my update from a couple of days ago so uh at least on paper it looks like uh the Steelers are eight 18, 819,000 under the cap at this point uh obviously with two draft picks in Troy F otano and Zack Frasier not under contract at this time uh here but uh we'll see uh how much if any that shifts on some of the look if they use any salary cap space whatsoever in the rule of 51 on Ward or perine it's not going to be much of anything uh at at at at all there now uh when you do look at the what's still outstanding when it comes to uh the two draft picks there and what you're going to have to accommodate with fautanu and Frasier let me pull it up real quick uh what the offsets are going to be on that you know look you still got to have a $4 million practice squad uh that's going to eat a little bit of space you still have let's see the offset right now for fanu and Zack Frasier would be 2139 million that you'd have to accommodate you still have to have the 52nd and 53rd player on the roster later that's another 1.59 million uh I don't I think the nflp stopped implementing the actual placeholder amount for the workout bonus uh offseason charge uh that on paper is 97,2 until the real number comes in once the real number comes in that's generally a couple of hundred th000 lower than the placeholder amount but it's it's still you know kind of a a half million plus charge that's coming once that happens uh we already have one guy on IR at this point and I guess something else to really hit on uh Keon Harris as we expected cleared waivers he reverted to IR on a split salary will now wait for the next five six six days or whatever to see if they reach an injury settlement with him uh this team will probably carry right around $6 million in free salary cap space come to start of this season for inseason moves I've got a $2 million placeholder in addition to that should should the IR list Stack Up in any any any way whatsoever there but uh uh plenty of salary cap space right now in in in nearly 19 million under to work with for the remainder of the off season here uh we'll see what happens with you know obviously moving forward with a pat frier Mo extension what's going to happen with Naji Harris uh what's going to happen with obviously Cameron Hayward any extension with Cameron hayward's probably going to lower his salary cap uh number in 20124 and you know what other surprises might be out there they gonna do anything with Justin fields and that contract and I wrote a post yesterday too and just a reality of looking at this wide receiver room uh Alex from from from from where this team sits right now and I I don't you know it's not a Captain Obvious statement I don't think by by me but when you just look at it on paper uh you know this team it it sure seems like this team could use another uh veteran wide receiver we've been talking about that a lot this off season you know they've got Cashwise when you look at the players under contract that room the wide receiver room totals up and this is even with Keon Harris on a split salary right now we'll see how much longer that lasts uh 12 million low almost $ 12.5 million in cash outlay for 2024 for the wide receiver room and you got a rookie in Roman Wilson that leads the charge in that department uh and that's because of the signing bonus obviously that uh they have given him a little over 900,000 there you cannot build an offseason wide receiver room from a cash expenditure standpoint really any cheaper than that right right right now uh uh and it will be interesting we've talked about cap room we've talked about cash outlay there's room to do it uh the thing is is that the list of players to do it with to add from the outside has has obviously gotten shorter and shorter over the offseason the free agent route I mean is is there really anybody out there unsigned at this point that really moves the needle for you I'm pausing here you you got a little quiet you still sounded clear but I heard you shift and okay I'm hearing you shift now it sound like you moved away from your microphone okay I just moved it back so okay yeah you're good now okay okay I'll pick it back up yeah Dave we've been over this before in terms of available free agents and that pool has dried up even more since the draft and I think the top name you would argue is Michael Thomas and that comes with a lot of baggage in terms of health and just reliability availability concerns so short answer everyone knows there's really nothing that attractive in free agency right now so it leads you to believe that if this team does anything it would be via a trade at least anything from a move the needle standpoint that's really been the that's really been the uh the look at this thing for several weeks now to be honest with you and I really think you know if you if if if if you uh believe that DK metf Brandon iuk and Debo Samuel really are just and have been pipe dreams all along or or at this point our pipe dreams then to me it really kind of leaves you with three kind of reasonable candidates for a potential trade that would be courland Sutton Jan Jennings and Darius Slayton uh Darius Slayton I guess would be a needle mover he doesn't he doesn't move the needle for me as much as say a courland Sutton or Jawan Jennings uh does but uh we'll see June 1 is a week away right right uh it would make sense after look courland sut Sutton's not at OTAs for the Broncos Jaan Jennings is not at OTAs for the 49ers and Darius Leon is not at OTAs for the Giants so uh I I I would contend that those guys those three would be the if the stos were to trade for any wide receiver that moves the needle at this point it feels like it would be one of those three guys but yeah you know you can't will it happen who knows sure we'll keep your posted that's for sure June 1st as you said becomes a line where that conversation May pick back up all right Dave to jump back here into OTA talk for the Steelers coming off this first week some interesting tidbits and again we're not really too focused on evaluating who played well and who didn't play well because a we're not there and B it's still football in shorts and the evaluation aspect is is difficult to do at this time of the season but one interesting note again we talk about where guys lining up who's running first team what position are guys signing up and Ryan Watts the team six round pick their final selection in the 2024 NFL draft according to the trips Chris adamsky has been working essentially exclusively at safety during practice he was a college corner at Ohio State and then transferred to Texas only nine career snaps at safety per PFF but has been playing safety uh throughout the spring he says he's still working with the cornerbacks after practice going through quarterback drills as said the team has not told him he will definitely be a safety fulltime they just want to get him the safety reps to kind of get him up to speed as a potential and possible transition I know draft Nicks considered Watts as a potential conversion guy coming out we didn't know Pittsburgh would try to stick with him at corner given the rare size and length Pittsburgh gravitating towards that with Porter and tri darious rush so the word is right now safety for Ryan Watts at least we got some movement there right you know uh uh a little kind of I I don't want to say final you know finality there but uh uh that's why you list him as a DB coming out of the track because there was that talk about you know maybe safety or or maybe corner or whatnot but uh uh it it it you I would I would expect him to continue on this path at safety at this point where do you think he has a better chance to make the roster from and maybe you think you think safety because corner I mean it it's such a mix of just young guys that are not proven in safety you do have Minka Elliott kbu and I think casy would have a better chance of making the team than than wattsw so then it comes down to that fifth spot with Trenton Thompson yeah but can and and and Thompson's still kind of coming off of that neck thing and uh KY obviously older uh Watts could give you that special teams aspect there so I I really I really like and you know killer Brew do you don't you don't really want killer Brew out there uh if you can if you can help it I mean obviously he's got the experience and all uh but uh I I think for several factors I think special teams being one of them uh I think you know are if he progresses if he can get make enough progress as a safety throughout the remainder of the offseason that might just make KY Expendable for you yeah I thought about that potentially but I think it would have to require a lot of progress I think there's comfort in cas and the experience the versatility will likely be the 60b as things stand right now it may be tough for watchs to to do that out of the gate I think ultimately to answer my own question or really not answer it is probably it may not matter as long as you play well in special teams whether you're a corner or safety you probably have a path there and there's going to be a need for coverage guys we're placing the two Gunners that were lost in for agency miles boy and James Pierre so I think corner is more interesting because they're just not a lot of guys that have spot spoken for you Porter Dante Jackson those are the only two corners you could basically call Locks to make this team right so that may give Watts The Edge you're fighting other young Corners like Trice like Rush Bey Bishop Josiah Scott you we're getting in the slot versus outside but just the general quarterback room as a whole um yeah I thought with Watts you know I thought maybe they still play him a corner I think there's some attractive traits there and I thought he was even fluid in in some moments but or Clayton Necker did a study that showed metric Al he really struggled in terms of just you know some of the you know successful passes thrown at him and and and completion rate and quarterback rating against they were really unfavorable to Ryan Watts I just thought there was that tightness on those in-breaking routes and that lack of long speed that hurt him but I wonder if he will get maybe some Corner reps because there is that really attractive profile of him being that long press type of corner that Pittsburgh has been collecting under Maran I I tell you one thing that does not lack in his tape is the physicality right I think he certainly can make the switch to safety he's got size he's got physicality and you can live with the the lack of you know long speed when you're playing safety and you kind of have more off coverage you're playing deep half you don't have to turn and run with these guys so you know he certainly could make that switch if we can get some of the you know just technique down um could he be a guy that matches up on tight ends in sub packages as a you know upside type of role that's potential in terms of where this thing may go this year later this year next year so we'll see um but right now it is at safety for Ryan watts and he might even be longer than long uh to to to ad damsky said he was standing out next to him I think yesterday on on on Thursday and uh what did he say he might be everything bit of like 65 or something yeah I don't know there's an official we and he came in 6027 so I'm gonna I'm gonna trust the official we and on that but he's a he's he's a big guy no question those arms man yeah you see that uh of him touring the uh the Steelers Hall of Fame and uh going up against that Wings span graphic and and and all I mean if it's not evident there you just look at some of these pictures that are floating around from from OTAs and all and I mean those arms are are I mean those were not mismeasured I'll tell you that uh there and I mean just his overall I mean even if his length is what what what it was at at at the combine which was what was that again 34 and a half the same as fanu and just a little shorter than bradrick Jones so no I'm talking about the height oh the height uh 6027 I believe was his official weigh in so almost 63 right so 63 and and what's a damsky saying he might be every bit of 64 65 or something yeah I think he made a comment about how big he looked in person so but either way whether you want to call him 6365 I mean he he a 63 20 something 34 and a half inch arms that is a well put together defensive back all right so look I mean you're you're looking at a depth guy here obviously just trying to figure out uh what all he can do and I would imagine uh the lines at least at the outside corner positions seem to be fairly long they're a lot shorter inside obviously uh there and you know if if if if if if you can work on his transition to more of a you know make him a lot more position flexible and then if he can show out on special teams and be a core guy uh for you there that's obviously going to uh help his cause and you know the hope is that you don't have to see him on the field positionally uh on on on defense as a rookie but uh if he at least can give you something to work with there and be a guy maybe to get a helmet and and and and play on special teams and what more do you want out of your last draft bit right right and I think he's got the skill set and the traits to become an effective special teamer as long as he's good above the neck and I have no reason to believe that he would not be with just his overall size the physicality the tackling I think he can go down there and cover pretty well all right so we'll watch how that continues on the rest of the uh summer positionally with him from a rookie to a guy going into his third season and a very crucial one at that defensive linan to Marvin Leal speaking with the media and I think he understands this is make a break 2024 for him he's a guy that has not performed well as frankly been a bust his first two years regressed last year lost his hat to louder milk down the stretch has not really come along still always been more athlete than football player and really honestly his run defense has become even better than his pass rush but neither have been where it needs to be overall I think he was talking with the post cazette and saying it's time this is the time I have to break out he's confident it will happen he says he's focused on his technique which is certainly going to be the big thing for him but you reality is and he understands it this is this is make or break for Mar Leo I think he also fed aalo said that uh they want him to get up 290 and to to 290 to 295 right and that he's right now what about 288 but said that he that he came out of he came out of the combine a little heavy he thought it sure didn't look it he carried it well uh what did he weigh in coming out I'm going to look it up now what was his weight coming out of the combine was it like 283 or something he came out yeah 283 uh he he need he needs to put he needs to put on that weight and he needs to play with it yeah I mean 288 versus 290 295 not a significant difference overall I know he's always kind of been a tweener and moved around at A&M and got moved around his rookie year but last year I mean the reporting was last year that he came in overweight so maybe weight's just been an issue generally being too high or too low I really can't speak to some of this specifics on that but either way the tape has not been good and at any point since he was drafted or and really even in his college tape did he look like he weighed 283 285 I'm trying to think back um he didn't he didn't to me he's he's never looked it you know yeah I'm trying I think when he first got the Pittsburgh when I watched him in training camp his rookie year he looked you know relatively heavy and then I know he had the drop weight once watt went went down and they tried to play him a bit more on the edge and and that was difficult to be fair to him he had the knee surgery too think miniscus tear and missed the month so there there were a lot of issues his rookie season I was willing to give him some Grace on that but last year was the year we okay you know year behind you we're GNA have a more subtle position they did use him as a more defined and true defensive lineman and things only got worse to be honest with you boy how big of a plus would that be if he makes the jump yeah it'd be huge to to have to not miss your third round pick to have a guy that could potentially be another option in sub packages and to still play some base end because lok's not a pass rusher uh G's not going to be a pass rusher M Adams is athletic and has a good burst but he's not really been an effective pass rusher so I still really look at only three subpackage guys right now in nickel and dime Hayward Ogen Joby and Benton you get a fourth in there you feel a lot better and I appreciate him saying that he's confident that this will be the year he makes a jump and all like that but you know you know my view on that you know don't don't tell me about the labor pains just show me the baby you know uh so uh it would be huge for this defense though if they could get a guy like that start playing like like like his his draft position yeah and maybe they ackowledge that he's no longer on scholarship that his Rost spot is in danger and then the additional competition of louder milk and Lowry and Lee can push him but if if this can't push him then nothing will so this is this is it for demarvin Leo look is he a lock to make the roster right now no of course not I think he's probably outside looking in and maybe that's sparking their realization that okay I gotta get to work here right so uh we will see how this goes with him and and yeah they it it would be huge if they could get him to make the jump here more things from OTAs I know we don't want to overanalyze particular plays in in Ms as we watch and hear about this Arthur Smith offense getting put together but there was a clip of Justin Fields running the read option yesterday that I think got some attention on Twitter we wrote about that for the site as well I'm trying to think back at Pittsburgh I been doing that even last year in training camp they may have been doing something similar and some of the this was not a 11on 11 this was just individual skeleton type stuff no defense out there at all but you obviously when you see Justin Fields running the read option given his athletic ability he sit there Wonder okay is this going to be a plan for this offense throughout the season well we talked about and and and who was it RG3 had a had a quick little video clip about uh having some sort of package in place for Fields this year and we've talked about that from almost a moment that that that Field's arrived there there's going to be there are going to be packages for him uh I mean I I don't see how you don't don't do that it feels irresponsible by not doing that yeah I don't want to guarantee they will but I I think they will I I certainly think they should and I imagine at some point they're going to you know have some sort of opportunity for him to see the field even in some sort of small package now does that mean we're gonna see five read options a game no you know but uh it it it you know uh especially with his speed and his ability to uh you if he make you know the thing that's been real evident about him uh on the hoof talking about Justin Fields is if he makes one guy Miss uh with him on on either you know scrambles or designed uh type runs he's gone yeah I mean he's him and Lamar are the two most dynamic Runners at quarterback in the NFL today and you have to account for him and again you run the read option and show those looks defenses they have to account for the quarterback in the Run game and you can do that by putting an extra guy in the Box you can do mes charge you can scrape I mean you can you know dedicate a guy but but you're going to have to deal with him and that makes your run game all the more effective by pulling somebody you know one Defender that's normally responsible for their Gap or run fit or stop you running back he's now go to you know focus on the quarterbacks that just helps you with the numbers game offensively all right uh look forward to you tracking all that stuff once training camp gets underway do you think they would show that kind of package let's assume it's a specific wild cat package for fields which may be a little difficult to look at because it maybe just him aligning like normal but would they tip their hand in Camp and show kind of some design stuff for Fields do you think they don't care what people see or think I I I I you know uh they've done the pony backfield every every every uh every training camp it feels like we're talking about that how often do we see that uh you know during dur during the season there uh I I don't think they have any qualms about look if if you're going to run it you need to practice it you know sure sure I agree yeah I I I I guess the question is just how much would they show it if they do plan on doing it not even from a you know giving it away to the public standpoint but just knowing that it's going to be a small part of your offense overall how much time will they dedicate to repping it you know and will that come in the full tackling session I mean you're not going to tackle the quarterback so I I wonder how they're going to plan just in terms of the number of reps they dedicate to using it should that be their intent sure because there's the time component related to the CBA in a practice and you want to accomplish uh certain things during these practices and you might get rained out two of them and you know th those kind of things there so I mean I don't know how to answer the question as to how much but sure I'm just talking out loud at this point right do you think they will use some of the design quarterback runs with Russell Wilson because you can you can run read option with him they did a little bit last year I think even in Denver there's enough Mobility where it's a bit more the element of surprise more of a third and one where and it's a read so just based off of what Wilson sees it's not you know you're not calling Wilson to carry the ball in a particular play just depending on what the end man does if he crashes on the back then Wilson's GNA keep in and take it himself I think we'll see that a time or two at least yeah will you see it I think so uh will you make a habit out of it no okay that's a good way to frame it yeah I mean the design quarterback run game under Arthur Smith does exist you know with Mariota that's been used and I imagine you're going to see some elements of that this year with Wilson and Fields Russell's gonna get himself hit enough as it is fair just by the time by the way he holds holds on to the football and scrambles and all like that I don't think you want to design uh too many additional uh situations like that for a guy his age sure obviously you're not going to run the quarterback power type stuff the G leite type stuff that you might with Fields but read options I think you could and will see that with Wilson a time or two and typically Wilson's going to keep the ball in the read option then that's because the end man's crashed down the defense is committed to the back and there's a lot of there's free grass in front and then you go down and slide once you pick up the first down or get whatever yardage you get so yeah obviously when I talk about designed Run game with Wilson it's really going to be just the read option with Fields you may get more creative with with the looks right right what else from OTAs they have anything else in terms of what you're hearing what players are saying they're sticking out to you uh I thought Patrick Queen I Patrick uh Queen some of the comments that he made talking about the communication and how that's going and really impressed with uh uh Payton Wilson and the way he's picking things up and what do you say he I forget what what term you use a football player or football guy and uh along those lines so not not surprising there but it it it feels like uh he's fitting in real well and look he's going to be calling that defense right so uh communication obviously uh huge something we seem to talk about every year uh uh and it'll be interesting to see how many different you know how many different packages will they have and and the more the more Personnel groupings that you have you know the more you got to worry about communication between those different players and all like that so uh just good to hear him talk about the process of integrating himself in that defense right now and you know his thoughts on early thoughts on on on on Wilson and uh along those lines yeah he says communication is good and that's encouraging to hear now it's May and I imagine 31 other teams are talking about how well things are going and how well everyone's communicating and being on the same page but for Queen in particular he's going to be that true Hub of communication and I know in Baltimore I don't know if he talked about it or if the coaches discussed it or was a media interpretation thing but he was more successful once ran Smith came in in war and assumed the Green Dot and then Queen could just kind of play Freer and that's an issue I know guys in Pittsburgh have talked about that before when you have that communication element you know it it changes your your kind of pre- snap process something because you're so focused on the whole unit you don't even think about kind of yourself and your own uh reads and keys and and kind of what you're thinking about so that'll be something to watch for with queen is you know dealing and handling the responsibility of the Green Dot in addition to actually playing like we know he's capable of playing right can he play I you know the question is can he play as fast by having those extra duties on top of him can he can he Pat his head and rub his tummy at the same time yeah I'm learning piano and that is like the hardest part is trying to get your left hand and your right hand to do you know different things that is literally the hardest part and so that's going to be the uh I assume his job will be tougher than my job playing o to Joy over here with both hands but uh we'll see how it goes yeah I'm proud of you learning that that's good thank you yeah it's it's not going tremendously well but we're making small progress overall anyone who who has tips let me know uh Calvin Austin speaking about the offense and I thought he had some interesting commentary I'm going to pull up the exact quote here he was talking about the changes in the offense from you know obviously going through Matt Canada system last couple Seasons to now what Arthur Smith is implementing and he just talked about a couple of the the differences and changes there about how it allow uh Smith will have defense is guessing the exact quote here from Austin on the changes are quote I'd say more Personnel groupings more traditional but definitely want to get in and out of different Personnel using all the weapons and everything and I think it's one that that will continue to have the defense guessing so say saying basically more Personnel groupings under Arthur Smith than Matt Canada here here I'm all for it sign me up I wonder exactly what that I'm trying to because I mean yeah in Pittsburgh it was obviously 11 personnel was your base there was some 12 personnel and that was essentially the the bulk of it right 11 and 12 Personnel I mean there were you know obviously others we can go back and look at Tom meat's charting but under Smith I mean you're going to probably see 13 Personnel 23 23 yeah although there's still no true fullback I want to see exactly how how that kind of gets look will it be Hayward will it be ketto puit something else uh but yeah I think you're going to and probably more of a a a mixture and balance where you won't be as 11 personnel heavy as you have been for basically the last decade Plus in Pittsburgh look you I mean if if if done right you and if you have you know uh the line and obviously all the Personnel that that can execute it properly you know putting two running backs back there at time you could have some fun with that you know yeah I know I know it's the yearly discussion that you mentioned earlier of the pony backfield but when you when two of your best skill guys are your running backs and when you're looking pretty thin at wide receiver I think there's an opportunity to kind of play around with those two guys maybe split a Jaylen Warren out and put nji Harris in the back field more often because they're both capable pass catchers so you know again I'm sure we'll see it in in the summer because we always do and how much it carries over into the fall I don't know but I if there is a year to actually run Pony it is 2024 right and I and and really we you can't limit that to just uh Naji or jayen Jaylen Warren either there because Cordell Patterson boy you and look it's not going to happen a hundred times but uh you know if Cordell Patterson's one of those guys back there I mean that guy's played enough wide receiver you you uh I am a huge fan of of of of having check twos uh based on what defenses roll out against your your your certain Personnel packages you know uh if they go big then treat them you know try to try to exploit them as if they uh uh you know don't don't play into what they're they're they're thinking that you're going to do if if a defense goes big and thinks you're GNA run can you can you can you check off of that and split somebody out wide and you could do that with a guy you could do it with Nigi too you know Nigi uh uh has the ability to split out if if if need be uh obviously uh Cordell Patterson has the ability to do that so uh I'm all for playing the chess games like that uh if you got the Personnel to do it once again I don't think it's going to happen you know 100 times but uh some more than what we've seen so far would be nice sure you're strong and deep and versatile at running back so utilize that lean upon that and I imagine Smith will because he's done that I mean in Tennessee it was a little different because you just had one true Workhorse back in Derrik Henry but in Atlanta you saw I don't know how much Pony we'll have to look into how much Pony if anything run last year with aler and and Robinson and and Patterson there as well to kind of get a better gauge for it but I mean this offense to me is really come together to look pretty similar in terms of how Atlanta was structured a bunch of tight ends talented running backs beef up the offensive line you know thin at wide receiver your one big outside kind of guy London in Atlanta Pickins and Pittsburgh to me this offense is pretty much mirroring how Atlanta was built sure uh I mean goes back to what we talked about at top of the show and really the the comment I I would this offense I think has the ability on paper to raise a few eyebrows if they get one more wide receiver in there sure now I I know it sounds a little scary to sit there and say they're building the Atlanta offense because the Atlanta offens has not been very productive the difference will come down to quarterback play obviously quarterback play last year was really miserable they were rotating between Ritter and heiki and it was a mess if you can get better quarterback play from let's assume Wilson is the starter that's where you elevate and become a much more effective offense overall so that's going to I mean again it's obvious but it all comes down to quarterback play I mean you're let let's face it uh you want to see uh what you want to see that that Tanny Hill year uh in in in Tennessee if if if you can get uh to that level of explosive plays successful run rates and all like that from from uh what was it Tanny Hills first season I think in in in in Tennessee uh uh if if you can get the quarterback play and and every the metrics to where that was that year man you can you can I mean it should be enough you know I'm GNA ask you a difficult question here with some projection involved and it's going to be a pretty broad one but Matt Ryan's one year with Arthur Smith in 2020 21 he completed 67% of his passes through for just under 4,000 yards 20 touchdowns in 12 picks if I can wave a magic wand and give Russell Wilson that stat line would you sign up for that or would you roll the dice and whatever happens happens in 2024 uh tell me the year again 2021 the one year the first year with arur Smith with Matt Ryan before he end up getting traded to to India after they pursued deshun Watson and then Ryan did didn't like that and you know he wanted out the numbers now they went seven and 10 that year I don't know all the details about I don't know if the Run game was a stronger defense or whatever but the stat line on that in all 17 games 4,000 yards essentially just under that 67% completion rate 20 touchdowns in 12 picks that was his his year okay I'm gonna cheat here uh okay I I just pulled up pfr uh his adjusted net yards for passing attempt number that season was 5.92 I would like to I would like to I would like to pass please okay you'll pass on that yeah I think I'd roll the dice the interceptions a little high the touchdowns a little low and yeah that adjusted n yards for passing attempt is low as well but right it I I understand how you're formatting this just just from those those stats P perspective but I I think you need more there you know the running game obviously they're going to have to lean on that what was the Run success rate that year uh uh uh you're not going to make a surge any more than what this team was able to do last season if you told me right now that Russell Wilson uh started and played every game for the Steelers in in in in 2024 yet his adjusted net yards for passing attempt number was 5.92 I'm not I I I I will not buy that right now yeah I get that I probably wouldn't either but just to play Dev was Advocate you know last year their completion percentage as a quarterback room was 64% they only threw for 3400 yards 13 touchdowns nine picks and their adjusted net yards for passing attempt was lower at 5.8 so it would be an improvement you get seven more touchdown passes that's one per game if your run game works well and your defense plays well and you expect both those things to occur one more touchdown per game is a huge difference between winning and losing how many explosive plays uh sort that out real quick how many explosive plays did the Falcons offense have in uh in 2021 I'll need a couple minutes to to put that together I mean I imagine that their offense I'm sure was not great that year what did they rank in scoring offense they were 26 and so I'm not trying to copy their entire offense obviously just looking at Ryan's you know box score in a vacuum there but I can look it up but I I'm guessing there probably weren't a ton of explosive plays look I mean you can you know you he could have here's the thing here though too he was sacked I mean it wasn't he wasn't sacked a ton That season was he 40 uh if you give me those 40 sacks for Russell Wilson I'd take those yeah that's that's a fair point because you know sacks do play into adjustin net yards for pass yeah I I would just imagine uh not not diving deeper into into this that there were there was not enough passing explosive plays uh for this offense in 2021 sure I'm pulling it up now I'm just looking at all gains of 20 plus yards pass or run in terms of passing looks like 44 I don't know where that's stacked up for the entire league but 44 from Ryan that year and I'm not entirely sure how many rushing there were um looks like two of 20 plus on the ground I can me to look up to see where they rank League wide and passing explosive place okay let me let me do that right now uh if I can think about how do I want to want to frame that yeah but look uh you know explosive what obviously what what this 2024 Steelers team needs to to be is better in the red zone and Russell Wilson to his credit uh last season with the Broncos uh what you know what 75 80% of his touchdown passes were inside the Red Zone uh you're going to have that element of him obviously you you should have the rushing the ability to run the football within the Red Zone and and and and and and down low as well too uh that area should improve it's the area between the 20s where this team obviously needs to get a lot better uh and in the explosive play uh element of it uh that that that's something that ball control uh time of possession you know Russell's got to got to trim down those sacks uh th those element of it but uh we got to see the explosive plays go up and you know the the biggest gain that this team can make obviously is the passing game inside the Red Zone and explosive plays between the 20s I am I feel like I am so Rusty with using stad right now I'm clicking all the wrong buttons so I still am not getting you the information that that you want here because it always resets the year every time I have to input something uh let's see game play let let Daddy handle this okay what what what are you trying to find here I I'm I finally have it now explosive pass plays in 2021 uh that Atlanta had 44 and that rank eyeballing get bottom third probably bottom 10 or so so yeah Pittsburgh only had 40 that year by comparison but yeah short you know the takeaway is you want more than the 44 my granddaddy you say damn it Davey get out of the way let me let me show you how the uh how it's done over there stad gets weird every time you have to re-input uh a filter it resets resets it just started doing that too didn't it stat head's gotten worse I don't know about you they've taken away some features it's uh it's unfortunate because we we love our stae head and that's where we get so many of the the stats and research that we do and it's becoming more and more challenging but those are champagne problems I know all right back to the original question no I would not take it based on ex extrap extrapolating out the rest of the advanced metrics there they need to be better than a 5.99 adjusted net yards for passing attempt that that number at worst needs to be especially with a guy like Russell Wilson needs to be 6.3 and that's that that's low in some assuming you wouldn't copy and paste the Wilson stat line last year in 15 games of 3,000 yards 26 touchdowns eight picks but his adjusted net yards per passing attempt was only 6.04 yeah that's not good enough okay you w 6.3 As the metric yeah and look I mean here here's at least the good thing with him he's done it before you know uh you go back to the last season with the uh with the Seahawks in 2021 with him uh he posted a 7.11 just a net yards for passing attempt number uh his career best uh 7 point obviously been years ago I'm I'm not looking for this out of him but uh 7.73 in uh in in in 2015 I mean he's had one two three four four five six uh seven eight he's had nine season where he's bested 6.5 uh now look you're going to need good defense play good running game to help support that you know if you're not over seven if you want to uh win some ball games here but I mean history has shown if you can at least get to that 6.5 number if you got a a relatively decent defense you're GNA win some ball games you can make some noise with that sure the concern is he has none it since 2021 his final year in Seattle he was at 5.5 his first year in Denver which was a total disaster under Nathaniel Hackett and then 6.04 last year under Shawn Payton is the last Stealers quarterback to post that type of figure over a season Ben in 2018 is that accurate I would imagine uh I don't see how it wouldn't be right right because Ben his last couple years was under six in 2018 he was at 7.1 so it has been it's been a second since Pittsburgh has last achieved that what we would view as a pretty basic and minimum type of feat and look if you're and you know you go back to what Russell did the last couple a lot of those shorter passes and all like that I mean that that's that's fine in Danny you all but you better have the yak and that's one thing the Steelers haven't had the last couple Seasons as the Ben rothberger average yards uh per completion uh you know the the the the completed air yards distance uh slowly shrunk you know uh dipped on him where they were not making it up at with that was the yards after the catch so uh if they are going to play this short crisp uh you know passing game you're gonna have to have the yak you know uh uh be there for you and who do you have that can do that other than than George Pickins right now at least from from what we know it's a good question and I I was going to ask you the same thing basically who are the best Yak guys on this team right now and I'm struggling we talked about Roman did okay you know in college and all like that did he do okay with Yak I thought his Yak was pretty poor I mean it was it was four point something I think the last last season so you know you know for college is that good I mean for pros it's it's fantastic I mean you give he won't do that right you you give me a guy uh that that that that does that at a professional level yeah sign me up for it you know yeah now Pickins dramatically turned around his Yak because he was one of the worst Yak guys this rookie year and then was one of the best last year and I think that's for a variety of reasons more comfort more versatility better more expanded route treat some of those Slants he took to the house against the Bengals and uh the Browns I think it was so he's not a maybe traditional Yak guy in terms of making guys miss but obviously he's explosive and has some long speed your tight ends you know fry with some power can you get Washington involved a more Conor Hayward but yeah you're not really seeing some of those true blue Yak guys I mean look we both agree that Calvin Austin should be able to top his numbers from last year right I mean I'm the if he's playing then then I would hope so but I just don't I mean it's all jumbled up he's in that same boat with Jefferson and Miller and quz Watkins to to fight for a spot in a role and has he shown to be a yak guy I haven't seen that in college sure he was at the NFL obviously it's only one year um he's been a deep threat in terms of the speed on that one touchdown catch but I've not really seen any signs a yak from him yeah but I mean how are you going to see that from him when he I mean the sample side he has 17 catches man you know well yeah what's the issue is the issue that there just not getting him the ball enough or is the issue that he's not showing enough to get the ball it's a chicken or egg discussion to be had right right I mean he had 30 targets uh last season 17 reception 100 I mean you know he's got you want to talk about thirdy Year guys they got a lot of proof I mean uh he's he's the demarvin Le on the on the offensive side of football absolutely I mean it is he's got to have a big year gotta have a big Camp because there's a lot of competition and again I think take that that group of four and probably two of them make it of that four that I just rattled off right in terms of who makes the 53 and it's anybody's game I just go back the way kind of we talked earlier that you want to you want to make us all feel better at another uh add another a Infuse some cat some cash and some catch into that room there you go put that on a bumper sticker so who is who' be the best of the three most likely options I guess you can term it Sutton Jennings and Slayton who's the best Yak guy of those three oh boy I if I had I don't have the metrics in front of me but I would think it would be Sutton right probably in terms of overall number I mean I think Jennings he's a he's bigger body type he's that big slot that can you know I think do damage in terms of his size and breaking tackles running through arm tackles um Slayton is that more classic Speedster that is probably not going to be a huge Yak guy but can win vertically and get you the air yards and then Sutton's probably somewhere a little more in between I think when looking at all three uh the give me either one of Sutton or or or Jennings uh obviously at this point I you know uh Slayton looks like a Ritz cracker too uh just getting some getting somebody additional with W with experience in that room uh I think the most attractive thing about Sutton is he's already played with Wilson and uh at least from a scoring aspect he was there last year I think if you look at him in totality from a yards and and and and and catch perspective it it's it's down there from last season that's going to hurt his cause with getting him paid this off season uh here with him but at least you have the familiarity and he s you know sounds like he's a good kid overall uh I think he would Mes in in in well he's got the link back to aani right yeah aan coached him in Denver uh so there's some attractiveness there uh I think he would add enough I think he would add enough to that room for it to be an eyebrow Razer then you know sure uh rank in terms of what you guess I I looked up the yak per reception from last year so I know it's a one-year sample size but but rank where where do you think these three guys fall into Yak per reception of Jennings Sutton and Slayton from the best Yak per reception last year to the worst one two three uh I would Ventures uh you know thinking about it now and then thinking about some of the catches that Sutton had I would he he probably ended up last on that list didn't he he did you want to take a guess who was first Jennings or Slayton was it Slayton it was Slayton I'm I'm surprised by that Slayton came in at six yards of yak per reception last year Jennings was at 4.7 and Sutton I believe was 2.6 H what was what was what was Su let me double check here 2.6 he's everybody a yak guy 2.6 last year 2.4 in 2022 his best year 2019 The Big Year that he had 4.9 was his best Yak per reception year now now here's the thing you know you remember back to that Broncos passing game last year there was a lot of a lot of short short passing game in there sure but that in theory should lend itself to some Yak because the longer passes is where you yeah it depends on where you're catching them though and and sure you know that those and here's the other thing how many touchdowns did Sutton have last what percentage of Sutton's catches last year were touchdowns and how many of them were uh did he not have a chance to have any Yak on uh that's a fair point although the year before he only had two touchdowns and his Yak was also really low so I don't think he's never really had the track record of being a yak guy no matter what his touchdowns are but he did have 10 last year and that's a valid point but only had two the year before and a jack was very similar okay I mean we agree any one of those three really should be the goal right yeah and it doesn't have to I mean you want a needle mover in the sense of you want a Define starter but it it doesn't have to be Brandon iuk as great as it would be to get this like Elite top tier guy this offense do not require adding an elite top TI your receiver when you have George pickings a healthy Run game tight ends you can throw to Roman Wilson will be involved to some degree you just need somebody that that is a stable consistent number two option to work through your progressions and again just God forbid George Pickins gets hurt you're banking so much on Pickins Health right now what if this guy goes down with even a short-term injury your passing game really gets crunched and it just I'm I'm afraid to even see what that looks like so that's that's my biggest concern of it all right now is what if some what if Pickins goes down right it's catastrophic and remember this is the same you know not not not that there you know not that one knee injury uh turns into another he's already he's already gone through this once you know when did Pickins go down I'm trying to think back uh what was it his final season or oh Georgia when T his ACL oh okay I thought you about NFL yeah yeah he tore his ACL going into his uh last year at Georgia right right you know not that one you know uh leads to another that that kind of thing there but I mean look they they need they need some more depth position in the story yeah I mean somebody had asked me yesterday you know who is who could you live with without more Joey Porter Jr or George Pickins and obviously he want both guys healthy in the lineup and in producing but I said you know you can better afford to lose Joey Porter even though cornerback dep is also pretty thin I think defensively you can mask some things better and Pittsburgh has just been able to handle injuries defensively more you know Sans TJ watt than the offense has been able to I think this offense would struggle to to mask and work around and scheme around losing Pickins than the defense would losing Porter all I don't know how we got to this point but uh that's the working title for the podcast right we don't know how we got to this point uh I think the factor of the matter is is is if you want if you want us to if if we're to to start talking about this offense might have something for some people this year I think they need that one additional wide receiver what do you think this offense would rank in its current form assuming guys stay healthy they don't add a receiver it's Pickin and Wilson and who knows what else is this an average offense in terms of scoring points per game that's how I judge the success of an offense I think it's right around the middle of the league at best it would be an upgrade still because they've been sitting in the in the 20s for many years now but obviously you can get above that if you can get what is your what is your realistic goal in terms of from a points per game standpoint to get this team to top 12 uh I'd like to see it within the top 15 for sure yeah I think average is the minimum but I think in terms of the goal that you're setting you would like top 12 but I think again minimum top 16 has to be what you get to at the very least what was the uh we find the rankings here team rankings uh and uh points per game let's see here offensively what was the middle of the League last year what would you guess would have been the middle of the league in points per game last season for for for offense how the turntables throwing the questions back at me scoring was scoring was down last year uh you know I I looked at those numbers so much but I was so concentrated on the bottom third where Pittsburgh was at the entire year I think Pittsburgh was at like what 18 something points per game and that was 25th or so I will guess 20 they they didn't even uh they didn't even hit 18 in the finale there was 17.9 was it for the phers last year God that's awful I mean anything above that's going to look like a oh my God you tell me we scored 21 points in this game how did they do that I'll say average was 20.9 uh it looks like let me let me one two three just under blackjack six S 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 about 21.5 the Bengal were 21.5 and it looks like they were slap dab in the middle of the league all right so I was I was in the ballpark had decent guess overall so the goal is 21 points you saying 22 points is that what you're looking for uh I would like you if you I would take 21 I would take 22 right now if you gave it to me if you said yeah I I'm GNA pencil in pencil you in at 22.0 right now would you take it I would sold yeah if you could guarantee me that somehow someway I would as well because we've not seen that in Pittsburgh in in far too long if if you told me 21 and I could take would you take your chances and decline 21.0 that's what Denver had last year by the way yeah Denver was 19th last year I know in in points per game I would I would take 21 maybe I'm a little conservative in that but just from where this team has been if you give me 21 with this defense that should be top 10 in scoring defense I I mean I know I just said you want to be at least average and I'm kind of taking right below that but if I could again theoretically lock it in you can win with that at least win a playoff game right I hear you I hear you I see where you come from yeah I'd be tempted to take that too coming off what we've watched last couple years maybe maybe our should not be so low I don't know us it doesn't seem like three points a game is that big of a damn deal but in the NFL it is isn't it yeah I mean it's just the average and and also what you're looking for is just can you get some games you're getting 30 points we we when Pittsburgh was on that horrendous streak of not getting 30 points in the win until Rudolph late last year came in and so can you have a couple explosive Day games and and listen you're going to face some offenses or some opposing offenses where you better score the Chiefs and Eagles should have a good offense and the Bengals are going to be you know retooled with burrow um the Chargers might have I mean receiver but I'm always thinking Herbert's a guy that can put up points on the board pretty good so you better be able to score some points this year look Kansas City won the Super Bowl last year 21.8 yeah although that's such an outlier and obviously they turned it on once the playoffs began and they have Mahomes and and Pittsburgh does the stat I had I think before the Chiefs it was something like the last decade every Super Bowl champ was top 12 in scoring offense was something similar to that so you know the correlation between offense in Super Bowls is is pretty obvious uh you know with all these Advanced metrics uh that that that keep coming out and man they're fantastic I eat them up but you can't get there there's there's a couple things that you just can't get away from I think when you talk about uh Super Bowl kind of contending teams one of them is the adjusted net yard for passing attempt number and the other one was that stat uh that that that you uh did what was it takeaways uh uh plus takeaways or something like that right right for for for defenses and all like that I mean if you're not in in in in in a couple of those categories there it doesn't matter sure and then just to put it as simply as possible we're g to sound like Matt Canada or or the Rowdy tles Factor you got to get the job done you got to put points on the board that's the bottom line right can Rowdy play tackle because he can't play he can't play first I don't yeah I don't know why he's still on this roster right now but that's a separate separate podcast all right I don't know how we got to where we are right now in this thing that's that is does seem to be a working title in of this podcast here G get us back to somewhere else yeah let's talk about Joy Porter Jr adding some weight he says he's up to 205 wants to get bigger and stronger be more physical off the line and as a tackler and so I think he's he came out of college Penn State 193 listed I think he said he played about 198 200 last year and weights fluctuate you know especially in season it's going to change you lose six pounds in a game just because of how intense it is but but Porter a little bigger in year two I'm here for it anything that'll help with that tackling with him yeah he got better as a tackler I thought he really improved over the course of the Season he was pretty bad to start the year and I think what last year he had said is his dad was tripping at him for being a bad tackler and sing the good Porter name as tacklers and so he improved there if he could be an average tackler and and be the coverage guy he can be you got a a top 10 type of corner look for what he was able to show as his rookie year progressed and all like that if he takes you know uh whatever that next step looks like uh he has a chance to turn into one of the better better Corners in the league not top corner but you know a a guy that you're talking about where do I rank him in you know uh uh top 10 to top 15 yeah I mean if he gets a couple picks then he's going to be viewed nationally as one of the better Corners in football that's going to be his issue just not that we're going to care about it too much but from a pro bowl all proo standpoint he typically needs some interceptions or truly to be an awesome number number one number two lock down man coverage corner I don't know por is going to get quite to that point but I think the ceiling is very high for him uh but you do want to see some more interceptions it's never really been his game one career pick at Penn State one interception last year which came in week five against Baltimore uh because as you mentioned the takeaway aspect is so huge in deciding which teams are the best in football look uh he took him a while get start getting some playing time last year but once it did you know you couldn't take him off the field he'll be able to uh obviously hit hit the ground running this year right out of the shoot so uh we should see it I think the one thing he'll have to really work on too I'm gonna probably do my one step to take series some sometime here beginning pretty soon is that always ends up pretty good yeah I think it's just a good way to kind of look at you know what One Singular thing can a guy young guy work on for a second year but portable all just have to you kind of alluded to it play a 17 Game season because he didn't do that last year he was playing in dime packages first month and then week five in the second half he was getting finally some expanded work and did not actually earn his first career start official start until week eight against Jacksonville so you I think that's another reason why it's good for he's going to bulk up some get a little bigger and stronger uh because he's gonna have to you know play a full season and he's not gone through that before and the mental kind of toughness required to be that number one corner for an entire year I think he's certainly capable of doing it I don't question his mental toughness one bit but just that and physically getting through a full calendar year will be new for him sure I I think it's uh once again his head's not spinning anymore he's been there he's done it now uh hitting you know uh coming out to shoot starter you know look he was following guys around last season you know uh all of this he you know he might have an outside shot to to to be a pro bowler you know if if he if he has some takeaways yeah a couple of picks will do that but he's going to have some festar match up you're facing Jamar Chase twice a year you're facing uh who else AJ brown big guy you're facing Terry mclen and all the likelihood when they play Washington um you know you're going to face some some top tier receivers throughout the year supporter has to be at his best all right how about one more over uh OTA overreaction for you here sure hit me if you got one Brian batco week one of OTAs is in the books for the Steelers outside linebacker Jeremiah moon is such a physical specimen even among this group of Edge rushers he came aboard via waiver claim from the Ravens this off season react to me I mean I'm not surprised by that we knew you know just from a listing standpoint when he came out of Florida he was a big guy and pulling up his exact height and weight right now but he was 65 250 essentially just old school size linebacker you don't see too many like that especially when you probably see Moon standing next to to herbig for example there's a a clear size disparity there 35 in arm so from just a a lump of clay standpoint really intriguing tools the the question is though can you develop him to me he was really underdeveloped as a pass rusher in terms of technique and hand use and finding a go-to move as a run Defender there's some stoutness there because of that frame and the natural strength that comes along with it so to me quality special teams guy can play The Run he's got work to do as a pass rusher but yeah I mean you just look at the guy physically the first off the bus approach I mean he he's killing it before I before I uh add add on to that uh you know who you you know who where that react to me comes from don't you I don't think I do I'm see they didn't come from you no Jim Rome Jim Rome used to oh really yeah he used to I I guess he still does I haven't really listened to him actively for years uh but he used to have a hot take and then he'd scream into the mic react to me is that on the show on ESPN would he do that on the Jim r r they called it I mean I think it was just the Jim Rome Show back even back then was it uh initially yeah and I think even didn't he get a start in San Diego I think uh he was out west coast and all like that but anyway that that that that's always kind of stuck with me Jeremiah Moon look I don't know how this is going to go for him uh obviously uh I I will say this I think we said this right out of shoot with him that was a shrewd move by the Steelers uh late last season to uh that that that that that's a move that that you see the Patriots sometimes make you know uh get a guy that you think another team's going to uh try to slide through waivers to get back on their practice squad it's got some talent and ability nobody's going to notice yeah he's not a superstar uh all like that but that was a shrewd move and and they the Steelers actually did that after their season ended and and the Ravens were still going at that point you know to wait to laugh at the Super Bowl for that to officially process right and and then on top of it he was you know excl exclusive rights free agent so you you stole the player with upside basically uh uh on on on the cheap now if he can become that fourth guy uh give you a handful of staps a game on defense as a pass rusher play on special team something he should be able to do uh that that it you know we could look back and say boy what a move that was you know and once again yeah I don't want to I want to pump the braks a little bit on him because he's got to show it you know but uh you know the the early you can't overreact to you know o first week of OTAs but uh it's positive none theeast this guy we talked about the moment that that that transaction happened and yeah hope hopefully he keeps making some noise because that would be huge if they get the number four outside linebacker on this team that way right and that's why I was okay with this team passing or not getting a deal done with Bud Dupri I'm comfortable with the outside linebacker depth as it's currently constructed now again B's comment is about Moon how he looks and there's no question about that he looks impressive the question is on the tape does it still look as impressive and he's a young guy but there's going to be some work to do I think he got hurt to at Florida and missed some time and battled some injuries and that might have pushed him down as well but if he can develop and he's got good coaching with dunar Denzel Martin obviously in that room when you have Watt and heis running from those guys uh there's upside as you said all right uh anything else uh let did I have one more thing to talk about from OTAs no I think that was basically it I I know you've spent some time talking about Kim Hayward his contract situation touched on a little bit earlier in the show kind of give us the other side of the coin you talked about high side on Monday to wrap up this week talk about you know could could a possible extension look like in Mirror basically how Troy paalu and Heath Miller did their last extensions back in 2014 yeah look I don't think anybody should be surprised if it ends up going that route with him uh you and I talked about a little bit more in depth on that last show uh you asked me about what Troy palo's uh uh new money average was before and after uh his his two-year extension in 2014 uh he went into it with a 9.86 66666 6666 million uh new money average uh uh and then that the result of that twoe extension that he signed brought it down to five I believe I had that number right on the Monday the other maybe I said 5.7 I don't remember uh 5.875 million was a result of that so uh no new money in 2014 no guaranteed money in 2015 and 2016 it ended up B basically being a glorified uh restructure took one for the team if you will he was nearing his 33rd birth birthday at that time uh there but still people thought I mean what try to think back was the thought at that time that he'd play at least a couple more years I don't have a good recollection but I'm assuming it probably the expectation was not for him to to not play Beyond 2014 okay well he obviously didn't you know right uh so really he didn't get anything out of that other than the 8.25 million he was already scheduled to earn for 2014 they was they were able to drop his uh salary cap charge by 4.5 million that March if you look at the case with Heath Miller they basically did the same thing with him he was scheduled earn 6.02 million in 2014 they turned a chunk of that into a signing bonus uh he he went into that uh 2014 off seon with a new money average of 6.75 million boy that sounds so cheap now doesn't it change you look back at this that's Na's a option amount decline basically right right 6.75 million was his new money average coming off coming out of that that that previous deal of his he signed a twoyear 8 million no no new you know the only new money was the two-year 8 million none of that was guaranteed no additional money in the 2014 year and he came out of that with uh his new money average dropping from that 6.75 million down to 4 million now he obviously played not only in 2014 and in but 2015 as well and a lot of people probably don't remember but in 2015 they were still cap crunched they restructured his contract again in 2015 to to free up a little bit of salary cap space uh uh on him in 2015 didn't turn change the terms of the deal or new money or anything like that but uh you know when we talk about could we see what ha it goes back to what we said the other day you know uh would cam Hayward be interested in a two-year extension with no additional new money in in in in in 2024 what would satisfy him as far as a new money average of the two additional years on top of it and and you know would it be something that you know it would be smart for the Steelers to go that route with it and I I I would imagine the Steelers are pushing hard to go that route with it uh you don't do that just thinking look we'll tack on you don't go into it from the Steelers standpoint of saying we we're going to give you two more years it's not going to be a new new money in 2024 situation and we're going to do it knowing that we have to cut you next off season you don't go into it with that mentality sure sure but you have to accept the possibility of the player not being worth whatever the base salary or the cash payment is in 2025 right which is why I talk about on on paper that the no new money extension you reference seems to be just okay why isn't it done yet there's still a question about what your base salary is supposed to be in future years and that's I don't want to just gloss over that because that that becomes relevant when teams make decisions on are you worth the money and look they lowered the base salaries you know uh paalo was what was it like six million in 200 uh 2015 on paper and I forget what he's what but obviously those base salaries were lower because they resulted in the new the new money average and lowering on both those guys as well too so you said Troy I think was pretty lower like pretty clearly lower couple million Wednesday yeah I mean his new money like I just said his new money average went from 9867 let's say down to 5.875 million so yeah uh he went a prideful man you know look I how much did those guys really look at the list later on in their career is is the question how much do those guys look at the list in terms of whether they St yeah they're new money average I mean right now right now Cameron hayward's 20th on the list yeah well their agent does that's for sure their agent cares about that kind of sure because that's how it's going to be presented there's no they'll try if they do a no new money uh in 2024 extension with Cam Hayward and if the base if the a average new money in 2025 and 2026 comes in lower than 16.4 million average it'll be presented in a way that it'll be what what do we say they'll they'll they'll call it a three-year uh what's 16 on top of let's say 30 you know 46 yeah that that's the way it'll be presented yeah in the most favorable terms possible because most of those reports are agent reported when you hear appapo or Sher tweet about a contract I'm I don't know that for a fact but I'm very much assuming and confident that agents are disclosing those details and you won't hear any talk about what cam hayward's new money average is you know right or in terms of or the guaranteed M money or yeah or the signing bonus isn't really new money but people it's gonna sound like new money and people are gonna freak about it right they'll say uh g k and and here's the other thing it depends look you can if you do that no new money in 2024 you know layout here that that we talked about there the only question is is how much of the 16 million do you turn into a signing bonus you can turn at Max all but 1.21 million of that into a signing bonus will the Steelers go that far with it they might not have to uh you could turn all but four million of it into uh I mean it can well you can do whatever you want I'm just trying to about realistic uh here uh you can turn all but 4 million of that 16 million into a signing bonus which 16 minus four take your shoes off that's uh carry to one that's 12 million so uh you know that that would that would be the signing bonus reported even though it's already money is already you get you're giving them money he's already due you know you're just giving it to him in in in in in a in a in a different mechanism there uh and even going that route of of all but four million of his 2024 money in a signing bonus and if it's a two-year extension you still lower his cap hit by eight million right and the reason why you might not take the whole base salary down is you would reduce the amount of potential dead money on the other side if you were to cut Heyward a year or two into that extension correct so what you're doing there is if you're taking if you're if you're turning 12 million into a signing bonus and that gets pro rated 4 million out over the three years of the deal so you had the potential of $8 million in dead money uh combined of 2025 and 2026 yeah so I think that has to be decided and I still think the base salary is a is a sticking point or potential obstacle in an extension of even if it's non- guaranteed which it won't be you still have to figure out what his base salary is and are you going to have the guy that's going to be 36 37 making 16 million in terms of his base salary I don't think hey would would want to take less I don't think even 16 is unreasonable it sounds like a large number and it is but he's in terms of where that is in relation to the market top 20 defensive tackle right now that's gonna he's going to fall down that chart year-over year as other guys get paid as the cap goes up it's a smaller percentage of the cap so I I wouldn't have an issue with that but he left to decide is is it going to be 16 million will it be less will it be more there's still going to be some discussions there look I mean could this end up being uh 24 could could he come out of this with a new money average a techn look you're getting into semantics here but but but the these figures matter okay they they matter new money averages matter uh cash expenditures in a certain season matter you know could you and if you look at kind of the percentages that both paalo and and and and Heath Miller dropped their new money averages I mean could you get this situation where uh cam hayward's base salary in 2025 is 13 million and his base salary in 2026 is 12 million another's 25 million over the next two years which would make his technical new new money average 12.5 million that seems like a tough sell because he Troy wasn't prideful Kim hayward's a prideful man I'm just I'm not saying I'm I look people people gonna get if he listens to this you know he he he talked about how he's going to screenshot all this stuff you know uh man I just uh a week ago I was talking about what the high side would be and made a ton of people angry by doing that and now I get the low side of it people are gonna say are you out of your mind you know but I'm that's what I'm trying to say that this thing could go in a lot of different D look you it's still probably not totally out of the realm that you give this guy you know another million or two this season as a tradeoff for lowering his his future salaries and no guaranteed money past 2024 I don't think that's I mean do I think it's gonna go that route when the dust clears I I would bet against it but I don't think it's Unthinkable to as a tradeoff especially if you if you are convinced he can play at least one more year past this season all right could you in turn give him eight let's say 18 million this season as a tradeoff of giving him base salaries in 2025 and 2026 of let's say 12.5 million respectively you could try I still had if I had to guess I'm not speaking for Hayward here obviously I think anything that is mute as a pay cut in that sense he's not going to go for but it's an it's an option sure and look I'll roll this back to what I said the for for people that are mad happy whatever with me my thought going into this off season with Cam Havard was what a no new money extension no new money in 2024 extension basically following suit with with with Heath Miller and Troy palalo and it could be yet to be determined what the new money average is but both those guys did lower their new money averages as a result and at 3 5 years old I mean Troy did it and he was 33 at the time uh cam is 35 so it's not Unthinkable for him to come out of it with either a equal new money average of 16.4 million or a tad lower but you have to wonder would Pittsburgh have done those deals had they not been so hard up against the cap that's why they did those deals right but why you you could you could have still done those deals BS and and left their new money averages alone yeah but my point is to say the other option the other layer to back this on is do nothing and just let the season ride out which I'm not going to say which I think is a possibility I don't know if it's the most likely scenario but it is a possibility all right here here's here's the thing here's the big picture look here and once again you think you know but you don't know right uh if you did do something in extension with with with Cam Hayward and and the byproduct of that was decreasing his cap number by 8 million okay uh uh in other words take take take uh 12 of a 16 million turn it into a signing bonus uh add on the two years to whatever they are but you drop his 2024 cap number by eight million by doing that and depending on what the rest of the plan is it could prevent you from having to restructure the contract of make a Fitzpatrick if you don't do anything with Cam hayward's contract this off season and you leave the cap number as is it's a good bet you're gonna have to at least go to the bank of Bank of Minka sure but I guess the question is would you rather restructure Minka who's younger or Hayward who's older I think they would say Minka sure sure that that that that's a trade-off there yeah and I still would even to add another layer would you do a roster bonus of some sort of compromise to give him some Nona full ful guaranteed money but money that would basically cement his roster spot by March 2025 I think that's a possibility as well as some sort of because there got to be a bridge here I think you know doesn't it's a calendar trigger yeah yeah but it's important there's some shity there's more shity in that than a just straight two-year extension with no guaranteed money no roster bonus no nothing sure at least it doesn't leave him hanging on March 15 or whatever right so a lot of ways this thing could go we'll continue to see how it plays out I imagine there will be your resolution for at least a little while look this thing could get done an hour after off the podcast or we could be sitting here two weeks out from the season when do you think it would that if it were to get done I think we talked about this Wednesday but I I don't think it's gonna get done anytime super immediately I think probably get done before Camp yeah okay uh I I I don't think Omar wants this hanging around I don't think cam wants it hanging around they'll get it I think yeah um if not though it will get interesting to see how Heyward approaches things if Pittsburgh draws a Line in the Sand and says we're not doing a deal at all or we won't do the deal under the terms that you want us to do a deal look if if if he has a camp holded would anybody notice it'd be a story at that point though story so right but it's not like he's gonna be doing much anyway I mean he he practices quite a bit and they gave him days off last year because that's when he tore his groin but Ian I mean he gets he gets the birth certificate day but he practices more days than not and he goes hard out there and his presence is is important I mean he sets the tone so I think if it goes into the camp it actually becomes a story for the team and for him to get himself ready for week one I would like to see him practice less though yeah I want to see him play a little less too as much as I love seeing him play out there just they put so much on this guy um and again he certainly has gotten his rest days in in years past but uh if he's not out there for Camp if he's holding then it it's notable all right would you like to get to some non- nasty emails today I'm starting starting get hungry today spaghetti day oh very nice yeah let's get some emails and close out Today's Show all right Luke Weaver writes in Luke's got an interesting question here Alex he titles it flip it and reverse it uh David the Missy Elliot ah is that what that is I for to to to keep people in look we've already gone this long what what the hell's another damn 10 minutes here I told told I was educating uh Alex this morning on uh Fleet on on on Fleetwood Mac the band and obviously uh uh that old concert that they did 27 yesterday was the anniversary what was it 27 year anniversary of that con concert how old how old were you then Alex uh four let me see what exactly that date was I man I to me that still seemed so vivid in my mind watching that I think it was on HBO or something something 27 years ago uh was that uh that that that that concert I think it was the rumors or something like that uh but man what a Monumental con anyway I was telling Alex about that Alex really doesn't have a lot of recol recollection of of of Fleetwood Mac so you're gonna have to fill me in on what I'm missing there yeah I would say missel it's new age but it's not I mean that's like my upbringing so that's stole 15 20 years ago I think my mom had a had a cassette tape of Fleetwood Mac that's how old I remember the Fleetwood Mac era type of stuff me and your mom could probably get together have some some musical uh commonality right I'll ask her she wants to come on the podcast for Monday how how old is your mom oh I don't I'm not gonna is my mom want her age out there I don't know if that's appropriate to do she's a I could B here she's in her 60s or in 50 58 okay so she's okay all right uh let's see Dave and Alex I'm sure you've had enough schedule talk at this point and are ready to move on but would you humor me with one more question would you rather have the Steelers 2024 schedule as is or flipped back to front that's an interesting uh question there he says I know we'd rather see the tougher games spaced out the NFL always backloads the division games blah blah blah uh but with our new OC scheme quarterbacks o line uh The Gauntlet of the Bengals Chiefs Ravens uh Eagles Browns Bengals Browns and Ravens right out of the gate but would you think our record what would you think our record would be after those eight games uh over I don't want to get into what I think the record would be or anything like that but I mean I I I think you could have stopped the question right there would you rather have the Steelers 2024 schedule as is or flip back to front that is an interesting question in and of itself no I I'd keep it as is I mean neither are are great answers obviously you'd rather have it broken up a bit more than probably how it's presented but given the newness for this offense as they try to gel together and I mean if you if you don't have a great start to the season which Pittsburgh traditionally has not had great starts of the seasons the last couple years and you start losing some AES North games early then you really start playing catch up in October that's a especially tough spot to be in so I'll keep it as is I'm with you on that for all the reasons that you gave uh I would keep if given a choice I I would much rather keep it the way it is instead of flipping it on its head uh because I want to I like to change of what they can do in the first couple of games as is against the opponents I like the first quarter of the schedule really even though I don't I think it's harder than people think three of the fource four on the road Atlanta GNA be a playoff team Denver might be better the Chargers going to be better the Colts are going to be good or competitive Cowboys like that is that is a it's not as hard as the end but it is not an easy schedule right and and obviously on the road with what three of I get it but I mean I I don't mind it as opposed to flipping it on its head no no yeah I I I agree again the the back half is is tougher but I I just I think people are because the end of the schedule is so difficult looking that people are glossing over the challenges of the first half and and you could sit there and say by week 17 you have no idea what the NFL is going to look like everything could be different by week two you probably have a decent idea of what these teams will be injuries may not be as impactful and so it's easier to project out the strength of a team in week one and week two as it is in week 14 okay fair enough there uh but I yeah I may maybe I do think that it's uh a little bit easier than than you do are you looking at like three and one to start is that you're kind of I I I hate these projections I'm breaking my own rule here but is that kind of where you're I'm thinking like two and two I'll take two and two to start the year I I think they need to come out of it three and one and that's I I think they can I think they can my my kind of expectation mentally is a two and two type of start and look this whole damn thing will change sure we got a lot lot lot of Summer to go here as far as our Outlook as far as that goes but it's a good question nonetheless Corey sarahan writes in hey David Al heard some very encouraging things from Calvin Austin media availability uh on on Thursday when he was asked about Coach Zach aani to name a few he don't play play that uh him in meteoro don't really mesh if you just want to cruise on through that ain't gonna happen uh the last quote he has here is he's going to get the best out of you and then Cory goes on the right are we underestimating what he can bring out of guys in that room like Austin and Wilson and if you had to pick a surprise impact from someone in that room who would it be okay first and foremost Corey I mean look what what are Alex what were some of the things we wrote about Zach aani right after the H yeah this kind of tougher approach to me is is not a surprise the article that I had written back on as I spent my Valentine's Day on February 14th new wide receivers coach Zach Isani is the butt kicker Pittsburgh need he's a guy that is going to be you know on these guys and loves them cares about them it's not mean but it is high expectations and keeping these guys accountable all right so what you know what what Austin said is backing that up right yeah yeah it's good to validate that it's good to hear and it's you know I think more people are getting exposure to coach aani but to me that was no surprise I'd have been surprised had it gone the other way now the question of who's going to be the surprise name that's a good question it is I I really could I sit there and say Scotty Miller because he's got some speed and he's got inside outside versatility that's a guy that's a bit more of a veteran bit more proven but we're all just kind of guessing I think I think a a surprise maybe not a surprise in in assuming they don't add to the room Callaway okay I like yeah that's a good one too make roster right yeah marquest Callaway is a guy I'll be watching for in Camp very closely all right our buddy uh Brett Davis who's done occasional writing for the site sometimes writes in uh wide receiver trade Target Alec Pierce he writes I've not been around the S side is much but I still listen to the podcast want to throw a name out there for a wide receiver trade Target that I think is logical but uh have not heard discussed Alec Pierce he writes drafted in 20 22 with the pick right after George Pickins he has served as the Colt Starting outside wide receiver to in the last two seasons but he has been uh behind Pitman and their slot wide receiver uh Campbell now uh Campbell now Downs in receptions and yards both seasons the Colts just drafted uh uh Mitchell who figures to take Pierce's role Pierce could be on the outs with Pitman signed longterm and DS Mitchell ahead of him on the depth chart he would be clearly defined outside wide receiver with size they could add to the room probably for not much trade Capital he has had some success in the NFL and is still on his rookie deal all right talk about Alec Pierce that's a that's a he uh and look Brett you Brett does his homework so uh thought thoughts there I think it's a really good suggestion um he was a a height you know kind of big guy out of Cincinnati I'm looking at the numbers here 16 yards per catch last year um despite you know losing Anthony Richardson quarter end of the season yeah I mean we'll have to see how ad Mitchell develops there were some questions about kind of his rawness and and maturity I know Chris ballad went the bat for him had that kind of rant as as you shot back at those those rumors before the draft but I can see that that actually makes a lot of sense it's a good suggestion he's a pretty physical guy as far from the blocking aspect too a he I'd have to check our old scan report on that uh probably though wouldn't surprise me uh what did he do last year against Pittsburgh you have any of performance against the Steelers last year only one C for 13 yards I just say that because sometimes Pittsburgh will Circle those guys that have had success against them but yeah I still think overall that's a a good point did Pittsburgh have any pre-draft interest in Alec Pierce I don't nothing coming to mind in terms of a visit or anything but want to check that box too uh definitely I mean got pedigree right second round guy yeah yeah um big guy big guy 63211 R that's the next question uh look I'm assuming very very good cuz he 433 40 and half inch vertical 109 broad so I'm going to assume it was excellent 9.83 boy that does uh that does match up uh yeah look that's uh that's a sneaky one Brett I like it and still on a rookie deal as well too uh that wouldn't come until late August I assume they want to see how Mitchell looks develops and guys get healthy but that that could be a move there yeah from a cap perspective you don't need to move them from a help perspective and a depth perspective you don't need to move them so if something what like that were to happen you're right that would probably come uh a week before the regular season started yeah I don't see a lot on pre-draft interest but doesn't mean they can't still have interest in the guy obviously so I I like that suggestion wholeheartedly I would agree there all right let's see if we got what else do we have here we can talk about from a reader uh uh Seth or Sean Irvine writes in uh your article today on the wide receiver room mentioned the reasonable candidate list for trade options to beef up the receiver room before the season one are there any reasonable names for a camp cutdown list come August and if so uh to who would that be or would that be too late uh unreasonable to add a significant player that late in the process anyway thanks guys love the podcast Sean meet Brett Brett meet Sean uh not not that pierce would be a cut candidate uh there but I mean I think if you're looking at reasonable trade options or something like that uh I me it's hard to go down list of depth chart me I guess you could and kind of fathom might this guy be someone that that that the team that a team tries to trade and all like that to be honest with you I think Brett just came up with the next best uh top the list you know beyond guys like uh Jennings and Sutton and and Slayton that that might be one of you know the next one or two guys to add to the list there absolutely in terms of cutdown I hadn't looked I I usually wait because it depends on who stays healthy and how young guys look you know the Colts does AD Mitchell develop that kind of stuff it's it's really not worth looking at here in May would it be too late I mean you'd have to you know you're trying to catch the the moving train at that point but if your options are to add a guy or not add a guy you know eventually that guy will get caught up and you kind of go through some Growing Pains early on so Pittsburgh has signed Joe Hayden right before the season they made some moves right before the year has begun before so I would not wouldn't be ideal but it wouldn't I don't think Pittsburgh would uh not explore the adding a guy just because it's so late in in in the summer process I put this in the Discord Channel yesterday to day and I'm you know it's been the theme of this show they need to add a wide receiver Alex and they're going to Dam it yeah again I think they've been exploring it I think they'll continue to explore it even Omar and Mike tomman have talked about being open adding and the fact they're even saying that signals some sort of you know probably real desire to to do so to me it's just been trying to find a dancing partner I think Pittsburg wants to to dance they got to find someone to dance with them all right what else uh I think we got through some of up run a bit long what else do you got for me uh here before we close things out on I think Sunday I went deep down the rabbit hole in one of my very very nerdy Alex articles uh Pittsburgh as you guys know officially holding the 2026 NFL draft they be the second time Pittsburgh has ever hosted an NFL draft the last time was the 1948 NFL draft I have a big long article talking about what the 1948 NFL draft was like and how it was as you might expect very different from the from what 2026 will look like in Pittsburgh all right good stuff there that ought to be a good read There were n there were picks drawn out of a hat there were coin flips the Steelers did not tell anyone who they drafted so all those details will be in the article fantastic all right shall we get out of here yep let's wrap things up we'll come back on Monday all right as Stevie Nicks saying to lindsy Buckingham in the great song Silver Springs Alex you'll never get away from the sound of the woman that loves you all right and who could forget that classic line that we all and I definitely know ah what a great song Silver Springs turn pull that up uh uh later today everybody listening the live version of that in the meantime you can follow me on Twitter SLX steers Depot follow Alex alexor kazora follow the show at terrible podcast email the showthe terrible podcast at gmail.com if you like what we do I want to donate to the call steers depot.com hit the donate button up right navigational bar also if you like an adree version of the site steelers.com hit the adree button follow the directions that way Alex and I'll be back on Monday and as always thanks for listening to the terrible podcast with Dave and Alex [Music] oh [Music]