Pensioners must now answer 243 questions to claim winter fuel payments | LBC

there's a cracking story in the Daily Telegraph and you'll hear from the journalist involved in just a moment and meline Ross the journalist writes pensioners face having to answer 243 questions correctly to keep their winter fuel outs just think of that a and one and I'm not say there there are millions of pensioners who are far brighter than I am far far brighter but there are some who don't necessarily respond well to form filling as a whole to hit them with 240 questions such as as the Daily Telegraph points out is your child in prison or custody pending trial or sentence do you want to speak to us in Welsh does does your partner agree to you making this application is your partner in hospital as an inpatient oh I just I just want to be able to turn up the gas Yes actually yes my daughter's just been arrested for curb crawling does that does that mean I don't get it what what is this all about well of course it's all about this 2 plion pound black hole remember fully costed as one of you pointed out yesterday and I'm ashamed to admit I can't remember your name if you want to text me by the way I'll credit you because it was such a good point that you made you remember every time you spoke to a labor politician during the general election campaign it's fully costed it's fully costed how are you going to it's fully costed but how are you going to make it's fully costed and yet now this supposed 22 billion pound black hole brackets 9 billion of which is their decision to give those level of pay Awards to doctors to rail workers and to others has to be addressed now in Glasgow Chancellor Rachel ree was asked whether the decision to scrap the winter fuel allowance for all but the poorest of Pensions was a mistake whether she and the government are considering looking again at extending the benefits to more older people to avoid them potentially freezing to death in their homes this winter the truth is that these are not decisions that I wanted to make but these are decisions we had to make given the inheritance that we faced from the conservative government and there'll be more difficult decisions to come in the budget later this year that is the Stark reality after the mess that the previous conservative government have left this labor government to inherit and a similar message from energy Minister Matata Fula who hosted a Roundtable Summit with the bosses of energy companies and the regulator off jum yesterday afterwards the minister spoke with reporters to insist there is support in place for pensions who need it and the government has been left with no choice but to make major changes to the policy on the fuel allowance none of us came into government wanting to Target the winter fuel payment but in the end we've got to respond to the world that we've inherited not the world that we would have liked and yes the chancellor has had to make a tough decision on this my priority and the priority of everyone around that table is what we do this winter to support customers that are struggling with bills customers that are vulnerable and I feel confident that we have the beginnings of a package there's a lot of work that we're doing but there is absolutely commitment from the government from everyone around the table that will come to a measure that can support our most vulnerable customers this winter but we also heard yesterday from Caroline Flint who served as a labor MP for more than 20 years and indeed as a minister in Gordon Brown's government now chairing the committee on fuel poverty she told LBC she had questions about whether the government's controversial policy on the winter fuel allowance have been properly thought through it's worth thinking about when you make announcements have you done some real looking at just who that might impact and the danger is is you know governments come in civil servants hand them a list of that they could cut and just sometimes they just maybe need to step back a bit and think about just how will that affect people and I say that being very certain too that this is not a well targeted benefit and and really it's something should have been done about it long before now to make sure it's better targeted now let's bring meline Ross into the conversation she's the money reporter at the telegraph who broke the story today and joins me now cracking story congratulations to you mine Ross what sort of people will be trying to fill in this 243 questions and what if they're successful does it entitle them to good morning good morning well anyone who's eligible for pension credit or another state benefit essentially is also going to still be eligible for the winter fuel payment and that's people on really low weekly incomes so it's going to be the most elderly the most vulnerable who are still eligible for this and the labor government saying that means testing this and targeting it at them is the most sensible thing to do to save money while keeping people warm in their homes but Charities have said as many as two million people who are just above that limit will really struggle this winter and as many as 2 million now in your article today we talk about the fact that this was hoped to save 1.4 billion pounds but policy and practice has found some different sums meline yes they're saying that actually if the 880,000 pensioners who are eligible for pension credit but haven't been claiming it the takeup rate is as low as 63% turned around to the government and said well go on then I'll have the top up it could actually cost an extra 3.8 billion completely wiping out the savings that Rachel Reeves has said that Li will make which would be you know a bit of a bit of a backward step I would say you go through some of the figures single pensioners are eligible to receive pension credit it's a weekly income of £218 is it is that right it is yeah and for a couple it's slightly less it's not a slightly less than double that because they assume that that the expenses for a couple will be slightly less for than for a single person so it's £332 a week have you been able to speak to the Department of work and pensions and if so how do they seek to justify this meline well they say that the they say that the waiting times have not actually increased other Charities have suggested that they have since the beginning of August including the end end fuel poverty Coalition um but they've said that they've put additional staff on the phones for people who want to call and make an application you can apply online or by post as well um but Charities are saying that their helplines are you know not being flooded yet but they're worried that they will be um with people who are confused by this form it's it's it's complicated I was looking through it yesterday and I'm you know I I spend all day reading government forms that's my job and I was struggling a little bit to follow so you're a finan you're a young Financial journalist at the daily terragraph and even you found it a bit daunting I did I think it's just black text on the white paper and lots and lots of boxes you know you never know quite okay in your piece lastly meline you quote people from the end fuel poverty Coalition the independent age I think you also speak with age UK can you give my listeners finally an idea of the can I say concern if not anger at this policy meline I think people are really angry I think it's one of the most hot button topics I've seen in my couple of years as a journalist you know we've had so many emails in about this um our readers are are Furious they they think even if I don't need this myself it's it's the most vulnerable who are going to suffer from this and I mean a couple of years ago when things were really tough and energy bills were starting to shoot up I mean libraries launched warm spaces campaigns I think we'll see that again this winter and you know really pushing to make Community spaces safe places for people to be and safe places for people to be warm which is going to be crucial Read All About It in today's Telegraph mine Moss meline Ross is the money reporter mine Ross thanks for your time on that if this affects you I mean let's go through those figures again single pensioners are eligible to receive pension credit a weekly income of two up to £218 those in in a couple though less than uh 332 which is smin said it's just a little under double isn't it uh 332 a week that so above that you start to miss out on this good grief Morgan Vine is head of policy and influencing at independent age How concerned what are you picking up from uh what are you and your colleagues picking up from people out there who might be affected by this good morning morning Nick um yeah we've been getting lots of calls to our help line with people incredibly worried about this asking us if we can help them fill in a pension credit application there and then on the on the call um but we're also hearing from people who have applied themselves who are just above the threshold so they don't qualify and they're telling us how important the winter fuel payment is to them and what it's going to mean for them to miss out what would your advice be to people listening now Morgan I think the first thing is the form is the form is complex but there are lots of organizations out there who can support people to complete it and also to find out everything that they might be entitled to because there could be other Financial entitlements that they're eligible for and not receiving so places like the charity that I work for Independent age we have a free helpline we've got free information and advice online um so you can call us or look at our website and we're there to support the other thing that I would say is it's really important that we think the government should pause this until they are absolutely sure that everyone who relies on this money gets it and one way of doing that is thinking about the form and which bits could be automated which bits don't need to be asked we think there's a lot that could be done with in terms of data sharing and automation that could really help the situation lastly you mentioned the form does it you'll be an expert and far closer to this than I am does it need to be this complex I think it could be less complex when you look at some of the questions and some of the ones that you mentioned earlier it is difficult to understand why some of them are in there so I think there could definitely be a process of reviewing the form but for a lot of the people that we support they can get through the form potentially with support or independently it's more that they then don't sometimes get access to extra things so you can qualify for pension credit and you're then meant to get all these other things but sometimes you have to do further applications to get the additional things so it would be good if all of that was streamlined grateful for your time Morgan Vine thank you you're head of policy and influencing at independent age and now over to you those figures again isn't this shameful isn't this shameful pensioner receiving more than 28 a week or a couple more than 332 they're going to have the money taken how outrageous and the questions is your partner in hospital as an inpatient what is the name of your Council what is the coefficient of linear expansion and how would you priest to the Middle East all right I made a couple of those up but the complex well two actually uh the complexity is obviously there we'll take your call on that if it affects you or indeed your mom your dad your grandparents