'The Amazing Race's' Phil Keoghan: Expanding to 90-minute episodes was 'a risk that paid off'

Intro Bill kogan The Amazing Race just received its 21st Emmy nomination for a reality competition program does it ever get old for you guys no I I think I'm I think we're getting more uh excited about it because we uh are continuing to be a part of the mix of what's considered the best reality shows so it's it's almost like that's our measure of are we still hitting the mark and are we still part of people's reality television watching so it's it's something that we never get blasé about because we're striving to to be there with the best shows and there's some good ones out there and um and and I I think uh for us to still be in the mix is pretty awesome yeah because since the Longevity of The Amazing Race category was introduced you guys have been nominated uh every year when you've been eligible you only just missed four years ago when you didn't air in the cycle so what do you think it says about race and its longevity because some of the shows you were nominated against 20 years ago are no longer around or fallen out and you some of the your current competition just started a couple of years ago you know it's it's interesting right like it's we've gone through all of that the the shows that we were nominated with early on a lot of those shows just no longer exist and I think we must have the record for the most nominations in the category um I don't know what would be second but I mean Top Chef Top Chef has been nominated many many times and Idol was for a long long time and of course Survivor um for a while um but uh yeah it's it's a testament to the team it's a testament to the consistency I think that's one of the hardest things to do a lot of a lot of reality shows have come and gone I think because some don't have that ability to sustain over a long period of time meaning they start to look a little tired because there's no real nowhere to really go with the format or with the look of the show and so it can start to feel like it's a rinse and repeat and with our show I feel like we do have a huge advantage in the fact that we can actually put something fresh and original up every year every season and and then you you put a new cast in there old shows can put in a new cast but not all shows can have a really completely fresh uh approach you know frh fresh challenges the way that we can I I I I do Marvel at the shows who have sustained and who don't necessarily have the same ability to keep fresh um because they're going back to a stage and yet some of them have still managed to keep fresh elements in the shows it's not easy it's it's not easy to just every year just to keep doing that and in our case over decades and that comes down to having really good people in your team Expanding to 90minute episodes M and well this past uh TV year was really special for race because you guys air two seasons in in one year for the first time I think eight years and it it came about because of the strikes last year because you guys had filmed a season in 2022 That was supposed to air as season 35 but uh because of the writer strike CBS wanted 90 minute episodes for the fall so you guys were already in pre-production for the new season last summer and you guys to film that with 90 minute episodes in mind and that air that season 35 in the fall and the one from 2022 air this past springing a season 36 kind of confusing but what went into that decision to swap Seasons like that well um I think uh I I believe it was Amy the president of CBS who who came up with the idea of trying the 90s and um it was a a risk you know like were people going to be able to sit down and watch an hour and a half of Survivor and an hour and a half of Amazing Race and um it was a risk that paid off and for us I think it's helped the show a lot because a lot of times we're really having to go in and and having to trim out stuff that we really would love to keep we hear a lot from viewers that they want to see more of the world a lot of times I feel like we've had to Short change them on being able to sit on shots or to to give real context to where we are part of the writing um I write with one of the other producers and part of the thing that we're trying to do constantly is give the viewer some context as to why are we in say Thailand doing what we're doing like what's the reason for us being there and having them do this challenge that context is is hugely important and I think becoming more and more important as View become more and more Discerning they're they're wanting more out of what they're watching uh I think gone to the days where you could just put up pretty shots and um or some exciting Challenge and be like Oh that'll do and people will tune in you've got to give as much as you can give to the to the viewer and give them as much of a takeaway so that 90 really opened and facilitated uh the ability for us to do that it hasn't changed necessarily um that much in in terms of like it's not like we're shooting for a longer period of time or we're making major changes to how we shoot the show it's just in the edit we're able to open things up a little bit so the reason for switching things was that when we went out to shoot what eventually was the season 35 but what in reality was the season 36 um we went back to the edit room and started cutting minut episodes season 35 was the opposite we went into the edit room and started cutting 60-minute episodes so we needed some time to go back into the material and and to make sure that when we fleshed out a season that was not cut for a longer version that we didn't miss anything and that we took the time to massage it and to make it 90minut episodes it's it's it's not an easy thing to do normally as you would imagine when you cut a show you're taking an enormous amount of material figuring out your story arcs and and everything and then you're slowly compressing over a period of time as you get your cuts and then you're slowly getting down to time and as you're getting down to time and you're having to fit inside this box of a specific time down to the second you're having to pull out things that and Trim in places that you wouldn't necessarily want to but It's Tricky and if you go down and then you suddenly go oh hold on a second we need to go back out it's like where do you pull it out and what do you going to put back in and then it's like a a house of cards you know you pull one piece out and then boom that piece falls down and then you like okay I'll build that back up and then so It's Tricky It's Tricky so we needed the time um to be able to massage what were locked cuts at 60 to then go and make lock cuts at 90 right I Returning to Europe would also imagine it was probably also more exciting to start from scratch with um what is now season 35 uh because the co restrictions were lifted so you got we had the return of the commercial flights that season you guys went back to Europe which didn't happen in season 36 yeah uh and so how how exciting was that to be able to explore more of the world that you couldn't for a couple Seasons because of the restrictions super exciting and I think the fans let us know and you know there were some fans like for what eventually was season 36 some fans were like I can't believe you only went to I feel like some some casual fans might not know about the change to switch yeah and I we we talked about it a lot I had one person um I I responded to somebody online and they were like why did you only go to these places and you know you didn't go around the world and all of that and so I or or and why did you switch Seasons so I explained why and then they wrote back uh well it would have been nice to know and I said well I'm happy to give you a personal message but I can assure you I have done a lot of publicity about about this gole Google exists yeah you know it's it's always funny how uh people like well you should have told me I'm like um we did short of short of knocking on your door and like um listen I just want to make sure you didn't miss any of the publicity I did so um but you know our our loyal fans are very aware um and and and some of our fans they know so much it's unbelievable how much they know um and we have very good fans like our fans are generally you always going to get people who want to do spoilers and be giving things away you're always going to get that but for the most part our fans are very respectful of other fans watching and they don't give away spoilers they're very good at at at keeping it quiet um those are the really Ro loyal ones um I think the internet has given permission to a lot of people like you know hey I'm gonna do a you know an exclusive and bust you know that who arrived at the pit stop first or whatever my feeling with all of that is is is I I think any of that chatter anytime anybody's talking about your show in any way whether they're doing spoilers or not um is a good thing it just means people are paying attention to the show and the worst thing is if people are not online talking about your show then you're like um how come nobody cares but and I think like fans uh or like the Die Hard fans we really just want to know like where you guys are going and it's not the placement of the teams necessarily yeah and I I think and and you're absolutely right Joyce I mean I and I love that and I remember having a discussion with someone they're like oh we we can't give away where we're going I'm like why like you really think that if we if a fan finds out that we're going to Slovenia they're going to be like H found out they're going to Slovenia I can't watch that episode what no it's like they're going to Slovenia they've never been there before I can't wait to watch that episode so I I'm with you it's like again anytime people are actually interested in where we're going and then they want to talk about it or it gets revealed that's a good thing that's that's what we want we want our fans talking online and I'm amazed at the level of knowledge that our fans have and that they care so much about the show and that is a big part of why we've been nominated 21 years in a row is because our fans have taken such a great interest in our show and um man I get challenged all the time by our fans with the history of the show and I love it you know they challenged me I had someone quizzing me the other day with a whole bunch of questions like oh my god um I had to really rack my brain especially with when I'm doing International press on like season 34 but then I'm jumping ahead to do press on season 36 jumping back to do press on season 35 and then sometimes even jumping back to like a season 15 I feel like I'm GNA yeah so it's many of them now but well for for the Emmys you guys submitted the the sixth episode of season 35 in so how did you guys decide on that tape instead of something like sainia where you guys had never been to before well um it really comes down to a sort of a a a collective or unanimous decision there's a group of us that are on a on an email um and people put forward their reasonings for why a certain episode should be included I can't say that it's um always unanimous uh you know sometimes is we do have a what they call in boxing the split decision um but uh for the most part by the time we um by the time we come to an agreement we're we it's because we're like yeah okay we have to weigh up like what is the cinematography like What's the storyline like who are the characters that are in what are the story lines that play out um so there's there's a lot of a lot to consider and um I love that um I I love that there is that discussion for us you know that we we're able to uh figure it out and and look you know anytime you're um anytime you're you're going to a really exotic place like like going to the pink City uh in and and and where you're traveling from say a place like Vietnam to India um you're going to get something super exciting MH well that episode uh we also had the the blind U-turn the vote um so you guys brought back a lot of these elements you know like the express pass the past couple season also introduced the scramble um which was on the final leg in season 35 and then you guys also have removed non-elimination legs which I love because it just creates more stakes and tension so what were the discussions um going into you know bringing back some elements and eliminating not elimination legs I think just to mix it up I think um I think you sort of have to start doing different things when you've been going that long um interestingly there was a lot of criticism for taking out the non- eliminations because there's a huge portion of or a huge number of fans who really love you know maybe this team will stay in it's their favorite team that's why they they want yeah and there's there's always by the way I always get people like you just you guys just like make it up like right when you want to do a non-elimination you're like you just make that up and I I'm like you have no idea like we can never do that for so many reasons first and foremost just the logistics of holding a team one extra leg with flights accommodation crew we've got crew that have got to get out because they've got another job you can't just be like randomly oh let's hold that team they're really good or let's get rid of that team because you have to literally block out people's time and crew and we we can't suddenly find a crew if we decide to keep a team and conversely we can't just kick somebody out and say to that crew oh by the way we decided to kick that team out so you guys go home you're off so no it's just it's crazy to me people even think that but I guess you know you're always gonna have the people that nah that's that's crazy don't know how TV production works and you know there's a lot that goes into it and there's also been you know in historically a lot of uh like quiz show scandals to that prevent these types of things yeah and you know uh it's uh it's it's it's nice that people are taking such a deep interest in the show but I read some of the I read some of the theories from people and I'm like are you out of your mind like do you have any idea like what the ramifications of that would be so uh sometimes it's just funny and sometimes it's actually just it's almost you know laughable but um I I do like reading the feedback um from fans and I know that they loved that we got around the world again I love that they got that we got back to airports um and I love when fans get into conversations with other fans to squash conspiracy theories or whatever because they know enough to be able to defend certain things on our behalf I love watching that because that's like I could just sit back and watch and like no no and here's the fan correcting them like someone was like um you know why would you only go around South America and and the Caribbean and then and then a fan will quickly jump in and go do you have any idea what cost to Charter a jet do you have any idea what you know how challenging it is to make a television show when there's Co around and all the checks it's like another production on top of a production so I I love that and you guys had chartered planes for what like three seasons because of Co already and I I let's not even talk about you know the costs of of that you know um people have said for a long time oh why why why haven't you guys just like charted a plane to go around the world before it's super expensive I mean Airlines Al the airport drama is one of the best parts of the show I totally agree with you so and then and then someone got on and said to somebody um look because I had said it somewhere in the Press no no Charter um means no Amazing Race so it's either nothing because we can't do it on Commercial so it's either there is no season or we'll give you a season but it's going to be different because we're dealing with some pandemic so then the fans get on and go you know what I think I like the idea that we could still have Amazing Race I I thought you guys adapted really well to co because when that hit because you guys were mid-production you guys had shut down I'm like are they ever going to pick back up like can we ever film again when you know things were very dire but you guys found a way yeah and you think about it um big difference between us trying to keep a production going and say a studio show in the valley right like you can you can really control that environment that that's a bubble that's a bubble exactly our bubble being the world it's way harder it's really nuts you know I mean it's uh I I'm so proud of of of the team I'm trying to think of a show that had as many logistical challenges as we had trying to produce a show during a a pandemic I I I I I'm trying to think of anything that was with that many people in that many places and it's not just touring because you have the the tasks too yeah you mean your day starts with going to get tested and then everybody who is at the challenges all of those people who are outside are technically outside air bubble then they have to be tested and then you need time to get the results back and then you driving to the location and you find out that somebody at the challenge just got covid and now you know your teams are I mean just the I can't even tell you so I'm super proud of of the fact that we we pulled it off and um with I I think uh made some some some great shows and yeah was it was it res did it restrict us in terms of where we could go and what we could do yeah yeah it affected everybody in some way every New Season 37 show in some way um well finally you guys have already filmed season 37 which is airing next year again with 90-minute episodes so what can you share about the new season well we we really uh to to your point before about just trying to bring in some new things we just wanted to we wanted to do a season where there were a few surprise elements so that's what I would sort of say would summize or sort of summarize what we did where there's just some things that come out of left field for the contestants um and I think it's I think the viewers will find it fun um these are like new twists like like a not necessarily new twists but just surprises I I would say as a better way of putting it if you were to if you were to put down a list of the top 100 Amazing Race moments from one to 100 the the best moments on Amazing Race don't really come from twists no they they come from things happening randomly happening as a result of the show just being in a place doing a particular thing uh the the water watermelon moment is not something you would want to plan but arguably is the biggest viral moment on Amazing Race in Amazing Race history we never set about having that watermelon smash that would be very hard to plan as well right but probably the most talked about moment on Amazing Race like if you said what is the moment on Amazing Race that got everybody's attention and went viral like instantly it was that or when the cheese was rolling down the hill or even in the season that we one of the most talked about things that happened on season 36 which was actually 35 was where the brother and sister got caught in that street and couldn't turn the car around we never planned that to happen it happened organically within the show so less about twists and turns and all of that sort of stuff to me it's more setting up things to happen if if you believe in the you the way you produce the show luck is the residue of design so meaning good things will happen if you set them up to potentially happen yeah funny things sometimes you can't even tell how Racers would react like you think watching it's like I would never do this but you don't know how they would react in the moment like under stress and that's the point perfect Point Joyce because that is the beauty of reality television which is you don't know it's you're rolling the dice if if you and I are a team and they put Joyce and Phil out into the world in a particular challenge then it comes down to you would have to carry me well you see that in itself could be very interesting everyone everyone would hate me because you're doing all the work and all the Roblox but you'd be giving great advice all the way through that Jo but but I guess my point is so the way we sort of approached this of the season was less about new twists as much as how can we maybe surprise the the contestants and the audience at the same time with a sort of like whoa I didn't see that coming so that's sort of more of the the approach um that's how I would describe it and oh my God the cast is so good you know like um in [Music] season what was season uh what was season 35 but what was actually season 36 um that cast was incredible um and and that is such a huge part of the success of a show but that casting 36 a is 35 were that was the Perfect cast for coming back into the world and going around they they reacted to what we gave them I think in in a really wonderful way yeah for sure uh well I can't wait to see it um congratulations again on everything um it's always great speaking with you so thanks again have a great day yeah it's really nice to see you again [Music]